Guild Wars 2

Do you run spotter and frost spirit with a sword? Because you sound like a bearbow.

There are just so many “bearbows” in PUGs, it’s really frustrating. They really bring next to no utility NOR damage to the table. And so many people just think this is the way a Ranger needs to be played because it’s so easy to level with it.
But it’s also kinda Arenanet’s fault that basically the only really viable dungeon/PvE build is Sword/Warhorn + Frost Spirit.

-Dps absolutely sucks compared to other classes.
-Pet AI sucks and pets get in the way more often than they are helpful.
-Anet made the longbow suck majorly, and now I get kicked from parties every time I use it.
-You only have a few viable builds. The rest are broken.

1. Not true. Where is this figure even coming from? Not being number 1 doesn’t immediately make a class have the worst DPS in the game, that’s called power creep, and it shouldn’t be balanced based on power creep.

Furthermore, ranger weapons are arguably very easy to use. Most weapons achieve maximum DPS by autoattacking, and the ones that don’t only have to spam a single skill on cooldown. Compared to other classes that require more actions per minute and more rotations to achieve maximum DPS, it makes perfect sense that the autoattacking class isn’t top dog.

2. There is some truth to the statement that the pet AI needs to be worked on. However, based on all the “reasoning” quoted, this is most likely being overstated. By like, a lot.

3. Longbow is a great weapon actually. It is probably the best 1200 range power weapon in the game for single target damage. That being said, you can’t just go into any content you want with it. If you’re in a party, you bring party options, especially if it’s a party looking for DPS. Playing how you want, and not in a way that’s conducive to the party, including just using a longbow because you want, is going to get you kicked because they need you to do more than that.

4. That’s every class. There isn’t a single class in the game where you can just throw points into anything, randomly, and it be viable. There’s also ALWAYS going to be an option that’s better than the rest. To make everything individually viable would lead to OP combinations, and it would take a very, very long time to make every combination of everything just right, if it’s even possible.

I don’t normally quote people and do this, but being negative just to be negative with absolutely no backing for anything being said other than basically saying “I don’t like that I’m not playing the best OP profession in the game that dominates with the weapon I want them to” is in no way constructive. If that is truly what you are looking for, go play Maplestory, where the developers have caved and balanced around power creep.

SynfulChaot.3169:

One of the biggest problems is our pets and their susceptibility to death. No other class in the game can have their entire class mechanic, and 20-40% of their damage output, disabled for a full minute.

You said it first, thank you!

Chopps.5047:

Do you run spotter and frost spirit with a sword?

I do one better…. I run double fire fields on top of that and an Ascended sword with Ascended GS on swap. Super sig of Battle & Strength to stack up might even more.

And after all that hoop jumping with 3400 base power …. I crit for a grand total of 1600 on the Sword’s highest damage attacks :p …I could even record video of it if you’d like… 6-9 stacks of Might + Fury … pretty much perma. And still only half of the DPS that a Warrior gets with barely any might, Exotic weaps, and NO fury.

If I could put better gear on my Pets…. I MIGHT be able to atleast approach the standard DPS of a Warrior or Guardian (Oh and by the way, they’re getting more damage & +Prec buffs in the next patch, while all we get is a super short-lived anti-stealth, and slightly less fragile pets).

Are you using fortifying bond and companions might and also counting pet damage? Are you min/maxing your gameplay? In other words, do you do things like vs Old Tom use a bear (on secondary), signet of the wild, and troll unguent to body block all the spinning bolts? Do you use birds against the final boss in the snowblind fractal? Do you use dog/spider for immobilze vs rushing grawl in grawl fractal?

I never hear people point out the good pets do. It’s always the bad. Also you might choose to drop the fire fields if you’re only getting 6 stacks might. If your team isn’t blasting it’s probably not worth it.

Jackums.3496:

When you’re saying thieves aren’t an issue for rangers, whilst complaining about a lack of condition cleansing on the class with one of the best cleansing traits in the game (Empathic Bond), amongst other things, something is wrong.

A single grandmaster trait requiring traiting 30 points into the defensive tree. Inaccessible for more damaging specs.

Jackums.3496:

Almost every ranger, whether offensively built or not, should be investing in the WS trait line. It has three of the ranger’s best traits, which are almost crucial for any spec.

Natural Vigor: 50% faster endurance regen.
Companion’s Defense: 2 seconds of protection on dodge.
Empathic Bond: 3 conditions cleansed every 10 seconds.

It’s not even a matter of build type. That’s like saying a defensively-built mesmer shouldn’t take Deceptive Evasion because it’s in a trait line with offensive stats. Traits aren’t selected based on the stats of their respective line. Any good player builds based solely on the traits themselves, and if they happen to be in line that provides beneficial stats to their particular build, then that’s just a bonus.

By traiting that far into Wilderness Survival we are blocked from taking more of the good offensive traits. Many, if not most, of the current powerful ranger builds don’t have the free trait points to boost Wilderness Survival up to 30.

Yes, it is a great option if we can spare the points, but most rangers would be harming themselves far more than helping by traiting out of the traits that make their build.

Jackums.3496:

That depends on what game mode you’re talking about.

In PvP, most rangers will be running Empathic Bond due to the condi meta.
In PvE, it doesn’t matter what you run because you’re facing AI.
In WvW, you can rely on your zerg/team for cleansing, so it’s not necessary.

If you’re doing any sort of 1v1 or skirmishing with your build, though, whether roaming in WvW or playing tPvP, it’s not even a question. No offensive trait is going to compare to what the WS trait line can offer.

Either way, Signet of Renewal alone is one of the best cleansing utilities in the game. It’s a full cleanse and a stunbreak both, acting as a passive cleansing utility when not on cooldown, and can be traited for a shorter CD through an offensive trait line.

Regardless, there are plenty of arguments that can be made for both sides, but the ranger remains one of the top professions in the game as far as cleansing is concerned. Not only are their cleansing outlets very powerful (Signet of Renewal and Empathic Bond), but they also don’t have to severely hurt their own builds by investing in them, as a Mesmer has to, for example. To each their own, though.

I am strictly a PvE player, though I understand the meta in all game modes. And when I speak of PvE I’m speaking of late-game dungeons, not open-world.

That being said, Signet of Renewal is quite powerful and should be in most builds. It’s only real downside is it’s excessively high cooldown, even when traited, and requirement of your pet being alive. Unfortunately for Empathetic Bond, though, 30 points in Wilderness Survival is run in practically zero builds for PvE due to the necessity of other skills for class viability. We kinda need to min-max the heck out of our class to remain useful in PvE due to the DPS heavy meta currently in PvE. That gates us out of being able to use apply that many points to Wilderness Survival.

That leaves our only other real cleansing option as Healing Spring, which again is probably one of the best group condi clears in the game. It, thankfully, has a much shorter cooldown of only 30 seconds.

Bearbow this, Bearbow that. I want you to give me three reasons why it is a useless combination, otherwise, keep your peace.

Bears are speficially for tanking and absorbing damage. If you want an example, I used it in the new Dungeon path to keep the Clockheart busy while I went to go revive 2 warriors, 1 guardian, and 1 thief who all thought that survivability is for chumps and all got 1 shot by all of its attacks, cursing literally every 3 seconds wondering why I was still alive and near full health. Instead of wiping and having to restart the boss, we were able to continue the fight, three times. And these people were apparently ‘experienced’ dungeon runners, when everything pointed to the opposite. They were whining and complaining about my decision to bring the bear, however it was the freaking bear that ensured we made it through the dungeon to the end.

I was using a longbow most of the time, and my other weapons were sword/axe. I had full Cleric gear and I am always built for survivability (which is why I wasn’t 1 shot by any of the bosses in that dungeon). During that whole fight, I was using point blank shot to push the Clockheart closer to the holo, and using path of scars to pull the holo closer to the boss. The bear was also pulling aggro most of the time, so I used him to pull the boss wherever I wanted to pull him. It made the fight alot easier than it would have been if I took a squishy bird or cat along, and while I wasn’t doing any amazing damage, neither were the other 4 players who were dead for 50% of the fight.

or you can do that with a warrior using a diabloesque top down view and precision movements and solo the boss :p

ilr.9675:

And after all that hoop jumping with 3400 base power …. I crit for a grand total of 1600 on the Sword’s highest damage attacks :p

Sword’s damage coefficient on its best attack (the kick) is 0.7. With 3400 power and an ascended sword, against 2400 armor you should be getting:

[950 to 1050] * 3400 * 0.7 / 2400 = 942 to 1041 base damage

If you’re running a berserker build (kinda have to be to get 3400 power), your crit damage should be around 100%. So your criticals will do 250% of base damage.

That means your sword should crit for 2355 to 2603 damage.

Are you sure your power is 3400? Power is the stat on the upper left of your hero sheet. The stat on the upper right is attack (power + weapon damage), which is a
meaningless stat because nothing in the game is based on power + weapon damage. If your power is 2400, then your crits will be around 1750.

And still only half of the DPS that a Warrior gets with barely any might, Exotic weaps, and NO fury.

Sword’s two other autoattacks have a damage coefficient of 0.6. So its damage and DPS are:

1100 * 3400 * (.6+.6+.7) / 2400 = 2692
crit damage = 6729
average damage (20% / 80%) = 5922
ranger DPS = 5922/1.8 = 3290

An ascended greatsword does 1045 to 1155 damage, or an average of 1100. Warrior 100 blades has a damage coefficient of 4.4 + 1.1, for a total of 5.5 over 3.5 sec. If we assume the same power, crit %, and crit damage as your ranger (even though that’s impossible – warrior precision and crit damage are in different trait lines so their berserker stats are always lower than a ranger’s),

1100 * 3400 * 5.5 / 2400 = 8571
crit damage = 21427
average damage (20% / 80%) = 188556
DPS = 18855.8 / 3.5 = 5387.4

Warrior’s GS autoattack skill coefficients are 0.7, 0.7, 0.9, and its cycle time is 2.44 sec. Damage and DPS are:

1100 * 3400 * (.7+.7+.9) / 2400 = 3584
Crit damage = 8960
Average damage (20% / 80%) = 7885
DPS = 7885 / 2.44 = 3231.6

100b’s cooldown is 8 sec, so you can squeeze in 3 autoattack cycles + 1 extra attack between each 100b.
110 * 3400 * [ 3*(.7+.7+.9) + .7 + 5.5 ] / 2400 = 20414
Crit damage = 51035
Average damage (20% / 80%) = 44911
warrior DPS = 44911 / (8 + 3.5) = 3905

In other words, a warrior with pow/pre/crit dam the same as the ranger (which is impossible) using an ascended greatsword should be dealing out only 19% more DPS than the ranger. If the pet is dead.

Warrior’s self-buffs are better, but they’re not that much better. A 25 might stack only gives +875 power, not the +3000 power you’d need to make warrior DPS twice ranger DPS as you claim.

But you dont count the +15% damage and +15% crit chance from adrenaline.
It’s not twice as much, but it is noticeably higher.
You also seem to assume that warrior has 100% bonus crit damage, while base crit dmg for zerk war is 122% witx axe\mace(axe) or 111% with gs.

No idea. Iv’e never been kicked from a group. I am usually the best dps in every group. I have tons of evades for survival in zerker gear. My pet does good damage as well and is always up unless I don’t pay attention and swap when they are low. Most of the little girls that cry do so because they expect this to be gw1 I think. I never liked gw1, so I’m glad it’s not.

the Ranger is a guardian thats basically worse at everything, with some thief like abilities that arent anywhere near as good as a Thief.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Jackums.3496:

Almost every ranger, whether offensively built or not, should be investing in the WS trait line. It has three of the ranger’s best traits, which are almost crucial for any spec.

Natural Vigor: 50% faster endurance regen.
Companion’s Defense: 2 seconds of protection on dodge.
Empathic Bond: 3 conditions cleansed every 10 seconds.

It’s not even a matter of build type. That’s like saying a defensively-built mesmer shouldn’t take Deceptive Evasion because it’s in a trait line with offensive stats. Traits aren’t selected based on the stats of their respective line. Any good player builds based solely on the traits themselves, and if they happen to be in line that provides beneficial stats to their particular build, then that’s just a bonus.

By traiting that far into Wilderness Survival we are blocked from taking more of the good offensive traits. Many, if not most, of the current powerful ranger builds don’t have the free trait points to boost Wilderness Survival up to 30.

Yes, it is a great option if we can spare the points, but most rangers would be harming themselves far more than helping by traiting out of the traits that make their build.

But it is the same argument that a lot of the other classes have. Everybody seems to think that they should be able to build full offensive and get all of the defensive utilities they need to go along with it, when that just isn’t the case across most classes. Most classes have to give up defense, particularly condition removal, in order to get more offense.

Now, the classes that this is the least true for are Warriors and Thieves, with Cleansing Ire and (cba about the name) the trait that removes conditions in stealth. They lose some damage potential, but not such a huge amount that it is detrimental to their damage output.

Whether or not ANet likes how it works on these classes and is willing to spread the love remains to be seen. All we know is that they want the Guardian to be even better at removing conditions outside of shouts at this point. At least, for certain at this point.

jcbroe.4329:

SynfulChaot.3169:

By traiting that far into Wilderness Survival we are blocked from taking more of the good offensive traits. Many, if not most, of the current powerful ranger builds don’t have the free trait points to boost Wilderness Survival up to 30.

Yes, it is a great option if we can spare the points, but most rangers would be harming themselves far more than helping by traiting out of the traits that make their build.

But it is the same argument that a lot of the other classes have. Everybody seems to think that they should be able to build full offensive and get all of the defensive utilities they need to go along with it, when that just isn’t the case across most classes. Most classes have to give up defense, particularly condition removal, in order to get more offense.

Now, the classes that this is the least true for are Warriors and Thieves, with Cleansing Ire and (cba about the name) the trait that removes conditions in stealth. They lose some damage potential, but not such a huge amount that it is detrimental to their damage output.

Whether or not ANet likes how it works on these classes and is willing to spread the love remains to be seen. All we know is that they want the Guardian to be even better at removing conditions outside of shouts at this point. At least, for certain at this point.

That much is true. We do need to give up offense for good defense. That is always the case with all classes, but affects some of us (rangers) more than the more … ‘favored’ classes (guardian).

Now I think the complaint here is less that we don’t have any condition clears and more that we don’t have better active condition clears. Passive clears are nice, yes, but without more strict control you can find yourself with a bad condition and be waiting for the passive effect to get around to occurring. And we are not unique in having few active condi clears.

People complain, when fighting against us, that we are too passive. This may be true. The problem is that we don’t have many active options. I’m sure a majority of rangers would prefer more active options than the passive ones we tend to use and abuse now.

SynfulChaot.3169:

jcbroe.4329:

SynfulChaot.3169:

By traiting that far into Wilderness Survival we are blocked from taking more of the good offensive traits. Many, if not most, of the current powerful ranger builds don’t have the free trait points to boost Wilderness Survival up to 30.

Yes, it is a great option if we can spare the points, but most rangers would be harming themselves far more than helping by traiting out of the traits that make their build.

But it is the same argument that a lot of the other classes have. Everybody seems to think that they should be able to build full offensive and get all of the defensive utilities they need to go along with it, when that just isn’t the case across most classes. Most classes have to give up defense, particularly condition removal, in order to get more offense.

Now, the classes that this is the least true for are Warriors and Thieves, with Cleansing Ire and (cba about the name) the trait that removes conditions in stealth. They lose some damage potential, but not such a huge amount that it is detrimental to their damage output.

Whether or not ANet likes how it works on these classes and is willing to spread the love remains to be seen. All we know is that they want the Guardian to be even better at removing conditions outside of shouts at this point. At least, for certain at this point.

That much is true. We do need to give up offense for good defense. That is always the case with all classes, but affects some of us (rangers) more than the more … ‘favored’ classes (guardian).

Now I think the complaint here is less that we don’t have any condition clears and more that we don’t have better active condition clears. Passive clears are nice, yes, but without more strict control you can find yourself with a bad condition and be waiting for the passive effect to get around to occurring. And we are not unique in having few active condi clears.

People complain, when fighting against us, that we are too passive. This may be true. The problem is that we don’t have many active options. I’m sure a majority of rangers would prefer more active options than the passive ones we tend to use and abuse now.

Absolutely. That’s my problem with it mostly; how passive it is. It makes it hard to even spectate lol.

I have a level 68 ranger now, and I solo’d a level 55 champion in Timberland Falls with a Guardian on the same level as me. I don’t know what happened, but somehow we killed the champion in 10 minutes, with help from an elementalist on the last 25% of the champ’s health. I used my bear as a distraction (yes, a bear, that MF’er kept us alive), the Guardian went all out with mace and focus and I spammed:

- Rapid shot
- Barrage + Sharpening Stone
- AoE heal + #5 warhorn
- Zephyr’s Quickness + #1 sword.

After the battle I could only conclude one thing: having played warrior and guardian, the Ranger was the first class I could pull off this trick. Yes, it probably helped we were with the 3 of us (including pet), but I can say that is an accomplishment.

Until now, I still didn’t have any problems with PvE, except those nasty Krait in TF with their champion up. Those guys get a buff of fury + 20 stacks of might from the Krait witch so they were a pain in the kitten .

Sypher.5203:

I have a level 68 ranger now, and I solo’d a level 55 champion in Timberland Falls with a Guardian on the same level as me. I don’t know what happened, but somehow we killed the champion in 10 minutes, with help from an elementalist on the last 25% of the champ’s health. I used my bear as a distraction (yes, a bear, that MF’er kept us alive), the Guardian went all out with mace and focus and I spammed:

- Rapid shot
- Barrage + Sharpening Stone
- AoE heal + #5 warhorn
- Zephyr’s Quickness + #1 sword.

After the battle I could only conclude one thing: having played warrior and guardian, the Ranger was the first class I could pull off this trick. Yes, it probably helped we were with the 3 of us (including pet), but I can say that is an accomplishment.

Until now, I still didn’t have any problems with PvE, except those nasty Krait in TF with their champion up. Those guys get a buff of fury + 20 stacks of might from the Krait witch so they were a pain in the kitten .

We are nigh-unkillable in open-world PvE. Practically any ranger here can tell you that. Unfortunately once you get to late-game PvE (dungeons, fractals, etc…) we are in a much more … disadvantaged state.

Solandri.9640:

Power is the stat on the upper left of your hero sheet.

base*power … and that other guy’s modified power stat (food/etc) itself isn’t over 3000k, why would my unmodified one be? Say whatever ya want but it wouldn’t be there if Anet didn’t intend for it to mean anything

Your math looks faked too. ..unless you’re hiding something. Leaving out the pet and only seeing a 15% shortfall vs. warrior? How gullible do you think I am?

I’ve leveled my ranger not long ago with a beastmaster condition build and had tons of fun. Never laid down my sword, for me it feels the ranged weapons are not good and somehow boring to use and not nearly as effective and funny as melee.

Now with 80 and decked with exotics I switched to a trap build with Sw/Wh Axe/Axe im Rampagers and its really fun and very rewarding. Sure, its room for further tweaking since i’m relativly new to the class, but ranger is fun and imho well designed.
The dmg seems fine to me (and i’ve every profession at 80 except warrior, couldn’t get her above 30 because its so terrible boring that i never touched her again).

Just look to find your own build instead of copying some traits a few people post in the forums, because they have found their build. Thats a ‘problem’ i came across every day.

Weird… I must but a rare sight for the PUG dungeon groups I join.

I always trait to Spotter and swap to Frost Spirit when joining dungs (it just makes good sense, really). I either run Moa (when extra healing is needed) or Felines (for the Vulnerability and Bleeds). When the group will do a lot of stacking I also swap to my AoE heal (nice also with the blast finisher from Horn), so all benefit from it.

I don’t think I ever used a bow in a dungeon… Axe auto for bloom cleaning in TA is nice; Greatsword auto on CoE Alpha (extra evade to supplement my dodges); otherwise sword auto in burn phases when dodge is not really needed (Kohler, Spider, behind the Nightmare Tree). And ofc, as much as possible Horn to grant Fury to the team and Call of the Wild to burst when stacks of Might and Fury align.

I suspect a lot of people sigh silently when they see me join the dungeon with a Ranger, but I do not think I ever got kicked right off the bat.

The thing is indeed the stupid pet standing in AoE (pets are fully useless on Alpha in CoE), or the pet F2 key not replying, And having now maxed out my Guardian and tried its different builds, I see I can easily get better DPS and utility output out of the Guardian.

So I suspect the hate comes partially from a lot of player not bothering to make their Ranger useful in a dungeon (i.e. it’s hard to play a Warrior badly, it’s very easy to play a Ranger badly) and thus giving it a bad rep. And then also from the fact that classes are not very well balanced, so experienced players know that even a good player will have a harder time making their Ranger contribute as much as a War/Guar/Mesmer.

Zel

Solandri.9640:

ilr.9675:

And after all that hoop jumping with 3400 base power …. I crit for a grand total of 1600 on the Sword’s highest damage attacks :p

Sword’s damage coefficient on its best attack (the kick) is 0.7. With 3400 power and an ascended sword, against 2400 armor you should be getting:

[950 to 1050] * 3400 * 0.7 / 2400 = 942 to 1041 base damage

If you’re running a berserker build (kinda have to be to get 3400 power), your crit damage should be around 100%. So your criticals will do 250% of base damage.

That means your sword should crit for 2355 to 2603 damage.

Are you sure your power is 3400? Power is the stat on the upper left of your hero sheet. The stat on the upper right is attack (power + weapon damage), which is a
meaningless stat because nothing in the game is based on power + weapon damage. If your power is 2400, then your crits will be around 1750.

And still only half of the DPS that a Warrior gets with barely any might, Exotic weaps, and NO fury.

Sword’s two other autoattacks have a damage coefficient of 0.6. So its damage and DPS are:

1100 * 3400 * (.6+.6+.7) / 2400 = 2692
crit damage = 6729
average damage (20% / 80%) = 5922
ranger DPS = 5922/1.8 = 3290

An ascended greatsword does 1045 to 1155 damage, or an average of 1100. Warrior 100 blades has a damage coefficient of 4.4 + 1.1, for a total of 5.5 over 3.5 sec. If we assume the same power, crit %, and crit damage as your ranger (even though that’s impossible – warrior precision and crit damage are in different trait lines so their berserker stats are always lower than a ranger’s),

1100 * 3400 * 5.5 / 2400 = 8571
crit damage = 21427
average damage (20% / 80%) = 188556
DPS = 18855.8 / 3.5 = 5387.4

Warrior’s GS autoattack skill coefficients are 0.7, 0.7, 0.9, and its cycle time is 2.44 sec. Damage and DPS are:

1100 * 3400 * (.7+.7+.9) / 2400 = 3584
Crit damage = 8960
Average damage (20% / 80%) = 7885
DPS = 7885 / 2.44 = 3231.6

100b’s cooldown is 8 sec, so you can squeeze in 3 autoattack cycles + 1 extra attack between each 100b.
110 * 3400 * [ 3*(.7+.7+.9) + .7 + 5.5 ] / 2400 = 20414
Crit damage = 51035
Average damage (20% / 80%) = 44911
warrior DPS = 44911 / (8 + 3.5) = 3905

In other words, a warrior with pow/pre/crit dam the same as the ranger (which is impossible) using an ascended greatsword should be dealing out only 19% more DPS than the ranger. If the pet is dead.

Warrior’s self-buffs are better, but they’re not that much better. A 25 might stack only gives +875 power, not the +3000 power you’d need to make warrior DPS twice ranger DPS as you claim.

Using your numbers:
Power (not attack): 3400
Crit Chance: 80%
Crit Damage: 100%

Warrior Axe Combo is 0.7 (x1) + 0.7 (x2) + 0.7(x2) + 1.5
DPS comes out to 4,134 (3.6 second cycle)

Throw in an Eviscerate that has an effective damage of 8,929 and a 10 second cooldown.

Should bring the warrior up to 4,540 DPS.

That’s ignoring any special bonus they get from trait skills, since I don’t play a warrior and don’t know them.

Zelu.1692:

Weird… I must but a rare sight for the PUG dungeon groups I join.

I always trait to Spotter and swap to Frost Spirit when joining dungs (it just makes good sense, really). I either run Moa (when extra healing is needed) or Felines (for the Vulnerability and Bleeds). When the group will do a lot of stacking I also swap to my AoE heal (nice also with the blast finisher from Horn), so all benefit from it.

I don’t think I ever used a bow in a dungeon… Axe auto for bloom cleaning in TA is nice; Greatsword auto on CoE Alpha (extra evade to supplement my dodges); otherwise sword auto in burn phases when dodge is not really needed (Kohler, Spider, behind the Nightmare Tree). And ofc, as much as possible Horn to grant Fury to the team and Call of the Wild to burst when stacks of Might and Fury align.

I suspect a lot of people sigh silently when they see me join the dungeon with a Ranger, but I do not think I ever got kicked right off the bat.

The thing is indeed the stupid pet standing in AoE (pets are fully useless on Alpha in CoE), or the pet F2 key not replying, And having now maxed out my Guardian and tried its different builds, I see I can easily get better DPS and utility output out of the Guardian.

So I suspect the hate comes partially from a lot of player not bothering to make their Ranger useful in a dungeon (i.e. it’s hard to play a Warrior badly, it’s very easy to play a Ranger badly) and thus giving it a bad rep. And then also from the fact that classes are not very well balanced, so experienced players know that even a good player will have a harder time making their Ranger contribute as much as a War/Guar/Mesmer.

Zel

It’s pretty easy to play a warrior badly, people just give them a pass because they probably also play their warriors badly and are in the “Hundred Blades always big numbers so all warriors automatically guaranteed DPS” camp.

ilr.9675:

Your math looks faked too. ..unless you’re hiding something. Leaving out the pet and only seeing a 15% shortfall vs. warrior? How gullible do you think I am?

That’s why I showed the math. So everyone can see where I got the numbers from. Not make up things like “warriors have 2x the DPS of rangers.”

I assume people are smart enough to add things like 10% flanking bonus, or 15% adrenaline bonus on their own. Trait selection is extremely build-specific, and limits you to case-by-case comparisons. FWIW, I’m of the opinion that ranger weapon skills are pretty closed to balanced. It’s our traits and utilities failing to synergize well with each other which puts us at a disadvantage.

But the math is right. I was surprised myself when I calculated it earlier in the year. I couldn’t believe it because my warrior “felt” a lot easier to play than my ranger. I spent a good two days in the Mists testing it with my warrior and ranger. Under those ideal conditions comparing only weapon skills, ranger DPS is pretty close to indistinguishable from warrior DPS. And if you add the pet (against a stationary target) the ranger demolishes the warrior.

Zelu.1692:

The thing is indeed the stupid pet standing in AoE (pets are fully useless on Alpha in CoE), or the pet F2 key not replying,

Actually your pet can survive if the party knows what they’re doing. We stack on Alpha in a corner and dodge in place to avoid the AOEs. At first I thought they’d made pets immune to Alpha’s AOE, but then my pet died to one. I think what’s going on is mob AOEs are also limited to 5 targets with players taking priority. So if all 5 players are in range of the AOE (and just dodge it), the pet doesn’t get hit by the AOE.

Of course if one of the players die, then it’s game over for the pet.

And having now maxed out my Guardian and tried its different builds, I see I can easily get better DPS and utility output out of the Guardian.

Yeah. It’s like they assume the pet will always be contributing DPS when they make ranger skills and traits.

Zanzer.6450:

Using your numbers:
Power (not attack): 3400
Crit Chance: 80%
Crit Damage: 100%

Warrior Axe Combo is 0.7 (x1) + 0.7 (x2) + 0.7(x2) + 1.5
DPS comes out to 4,134 (3.6 second cycle)

Throw in an Eviscerate that has an effective damage of 8,929 and a 10 second cooldown.

Should bring the warrior up to 4,540 DPS.

That’s ignoring any special bonus they get from trait skills, since I don’t play a warrior and don’t know them.

Shhhh. You and I know warrior axe has better DPS, but everyone is still all freaked out about warrior GS and 100 blades DPS. =)

I think what Anet did when balancing the ranger is added some fraction of the pet’s DPS to ranger DPS. That accounts for the warrior’s base weapon skill DPS being higher than the ranger’s (without a pet). Which is what makes the poor pet AI hurt even more. Frankly, I’d be a lot happier if they let us program our own pet AI and had our client control the pet.

Solandri.9640:

That’s why I showed the math. So everyone can see where I got the numbers from. Not make up things like “warriors have 2x the DPS of rangers.”

Yeah, and I’m saying that math is faked, because you’re using the base*power numbers for a warrior’s weapon skill (WRONG Weapon by the way… nice try), to also calculate a ranger’s. That’s NOT what happens in-game though. Our weapon skills do less damage nomatter what the hover/“help text” claims. ….therefore your entire spreadsheet brings into question your actual “Ever really PLAYING the ranger class” experience.

Also this is a big part of why part of Anet’s blog or “Plans ahead” includes a much more detailed UI or fact sheet for skill/damage calculations … I’m not even going to elaborate on the fact that someone else has already de-manipulated your math, but much thanks to him for just offering a second opinion….

Nike.2631:

Until they do something about pets standing in AoEs until dead, its essentially IMPOSSIBLE to have a patch Rangers will be happy with. Anything positive just looks like a cheap bandage while you have that gapping mortal wound in the gut of the class.

At this point I think its just mule-headed pride that they won’t even consider the tested, proven WoW solution of AI-stupid pets/NPCs having some degree of automatic mitigation against AoEs.

They already did do something about it.

The F3 key.

Oh wait, you want a pet that is fire and forget? Well, you don’t get any. I like how this is done and I wouldn’t change it.

runeblade.7514:

Nike.2631:

Until they do something about pets standing in AoEs until dead, its essentially IMPOSSIBLE to have a patch Rangers will be happy with. Anything positive just looks like a cheap bandage while you have that gapping mortal wound in the gut of the class.

At this point I think its just mule-headed pride that they won’t even consider the tested, proven WoW solution of AI-stupid pets/NPCs having some degree of automatic mitigation against AoEs.

They already did do something about it.

The F3 key.

Oh wait, you want a pet that is fire and forget? Well, you don’t get any. I like how this is done and I wouldn’t change it.

F3 to avoid boss aoe? Ha, that’s adorable…

How will F3 help if you’re in melee range and need to dodge?
It basically kinda forces rangers to go ranged, and being ranged makes you suck at gw2 pve.
Maybe anet should just give pets the ability to dodge, at the same time as the ranger for example.

^yeah, I also would take this one step further…

F3 to avoid boss aoe? Ha, that’s adorable…

Ranged Boss AOE’s are adorable…. (I pull pet out of those all day long)
Try F3’ing to save your pet when you’re Melee’ing Lupicus and he does the Swipe/Cleave.

There’s nothing crazy about that either… to compete with every other class, we HAVE to melee, and without Pets that can stand in Melee with us and “phase” when we dodge, we’ll never measure up to the DPS of other classes.

PEts need to be able to dodge and they need combat closers

Rangers suck bad. If you are a good ranger player you would realize that the ranger class doesn’t have as nearly as many usefull skills as other classes. I know the dumb ranger was my main class for a while. Rangers aren’t that good at range, they suck at melee, cant tank a thief to save their lives. Overall this class should be removed by ANET and they should give me back like 500gold i spent on my ranger character.