Guild Wars 2

I mean they are very bad in some way that make them undesirable to use.
first I would like to ask anet if possible to be able to select also a normal skill in the elite slot that could be a blast and make my life easier because we don’t have a signet and a trap, then I could equip something useful for my build instead something completely unrelevant.

Now let’s review the downside of every single elite:

• spirit of nature: nice concept. Unfortunately the lack of mobility, together with the lack of range in the active with the absurd long cd make this skill a little bit more than an occasional aoe heal in 3 mins cool down.
• strength of the pack: I use it only for the stab, because I have better means to get fury or might than a 60 second coll down skill for 9 seconds fury. Still not really worth it compared to the new shouts
• entangle : the roots mechanics is a disgrace. You may trap some noobs but will not work with anybody with more than a 100 hour of gameplay.
• glyph of equality : I use this one for the cleanse with verdant etching. The mechanic is very original and promising unfortunately the actual lack of range and any means of damage mitigation unless you waist another skill make you a little bit less than a suicide squad. You drop yourself in the middle of the zerg and hope for get downed 3 guys with the cost of your life.

So yeah, I could give some directions like the spirits to have the choice to be mobile and cast the active always when dying or the roots become unavoidable so you have to actually deal with the elite mechanic, but what do you think?

Rangers have two great elites in Strength of the pack and Entangle.

Elementalists are the ones with terrible elites.

Ehecatl.9172:

Rangers have two great elites in Strength of the pack and Entangle.

Elementalists are the ones with terrible elites.

I already pointed you they are pretty bad and the reasons. You saying thing that are good because they are used coz you have to choose one is not a real reason.
Also eles can have pretty bad elites because compared to their other skills anything looks bad. So yeah there is that.

anduriell.6280:

I already pointed you they are pretty bad and the reasons. You saying thing that are good because they are used coz you have to choose one is not a real reason.
Also eles can have pretty bad elites because compared to their other skills anything looks bad. So yeah there is that.

Elementalists have bad elites because two of those elites actively make the elementalist weaker by removing their weapon skills. Tornado just makes them a big, slow target.

As someone who went from ele main to ranger main a couple years ago trust me, rangers are the promised land of elites by comparison.

They aren’t completely bad, but could use some tightening up. “Strength of the Pack!” for example could have the cooldown or cast time reduced, but not both. The might duration could use a slight bump from 8s to 10s.

Entangled could use a bit more potency. I’ve seen suggestions of increasing the initial immobilization to increase the snare strength against opponents that stack -% condition duration. Maybe go as far as having the vines be unblockable since it is an elite.

Glyph of Equality needs to have the initial range be the same as the tethering range, which is 600. Similar to the Necromancer’s Tainted Shackles, which has the initial and tether range both at 600, and less clunky to use. 200 extra range does wonders, believe it or not.

Not sure about Spirit of Nature, though. I think its one of the few Spirits done correctly. I would like it if the active range was 900 by default and the active range increase be removed from Nature’s Vengeance.

Maybe have Nature’s Vengeance increase the range of the passive effects by 50% instead as an option to provide greater coverage as compensation for the removal of Spirits Unbound. 1500 range on the passives would be nice, especially with the pulsing boons.

Though I agree that it would be nice to have the possibility to put normal skills on the elite position, it would soon get to be a nightmare, balance-wise.
I feel that possibility would do more harm than good for the game,

anduriell.6280:

Ehecatl.9172:

Rangers have two great elites in Strength of the pack and Entangle.

Elementalists are the ones with terrible elites.

I already pointed you they are pretty bad and the reasons. You saying thing that are good because they are used coz you have to choose one is not a real reason.

strength of the pack
I like the one button 25 stacks might, when well timed with the pet. It might not be much compared to other classes, but I’d rather use a 60 secs utility than a lot of button pressing to get to 15 unconstant stacks.
The awesome amount of stab stackings also help to survive many situations.
We get 3 stacks per 3 sec, so 12 seconds on a 60 seconds CD
Since elem were mentionned, they get, as a regular skill, 6 secs of 10 stacks of stab on a 75 seconds CD.
War Elite, though giving other utilites, only give 2 stacks of stabs every 3 seconds. So total 18 seconds of stab on a 180 seconds CD.
1 second of stab per 10 seconds CD, while we have 1 second of stab per 5 seconds CD.

You might not like that skill, it is still worth taking.

Entangle
It is good in PvE, to gather a pack of mob and keep them in one place while the pet AoE. They are also nasty with conditions.
It is useable in PvP, with good timing. did the foe just used it’s blink/teleportation/burst skill? if he has any? did he just used his dodges, so he can’t avoid them?

In WvW – in most combat, people are not even aware of what struck them, thought the vines usually get destroyed way too fast, it is often enough to secure a down.

glyph of equality
lack of damage mitigation? Did I miss something? Is druid forgotten? Is celestial not allowhing to get back some health? If one can’t stop/evade burst damage, it is time to use it. At least the damage eaten will weaken the ennemy while still allowing us to react.

Spirit
I used to take it when I was, mid-melee in WvW as a revive mechanism, back when we had 70 points and spirits moved. Though it needs two presses, the total activation time is comparable to warrior’s elite banner, on a way shorter CD. At that time, it could also do two revives traited, so it ensured that the ally was raised, enven in heavy AoE situations.
I changed function since, and backline don’t really use this utility…

General notes

I do not consider elites as “always useful”, but as utilities that can change the tide of battle. I feel our elites moslty achieve their purpose, though it would be nive to have them tweaked to fit with current game mechanics

So, all in all, they not so bad, as far as I am concerned… They might not be “Wow” elites, but their CD is decent for the utility they bring.

Edit: @ Wondrouswall, entangle IS unblockable…
+Edited for spelling

Entangle could use some love. The reason I get away with loving it so much is I pair it with sharpened edges and madking runes ;-)

+1 Jocksy

I mainly do PvE, used to do WvW as well, but not anymore. In PvE Entangle is great, be it to gather mobs to do aoe, or giving you a short break to retreat. Strengh of the Pack is my ‘I-dont-know-what-elite-I-should-take’ ability. Its always handy to have burst or stab ready.

You’re a bit rough saying that strengh of the pack is a bad elite…
I mean, traited, It’s :
- 9 to 12 seconds of stability (3 stacks)
- 9 to 12 seconds of fury (giving fury every 3 second so that you can proc remorseless every 3 seconds)
- at least 13 seconds of swiftness
- 10 second of regeneration
- may cleanse a condition with rune of the soldier or convert 5 conditions into boons with runes of lyssa.
- easily 25 mights stack if you actively manage your pet
- and all of this for a cool down of 48 seconds

I mean it’s obvious that it’s the worst elite skill of the game… Is there even a better elite skill than this one in this game?

Jocksy.3415:

entangle IS unblockable…

Right, forgot it’s unblockable by default. Seems like the OP, and both of us forgot the Glyph elite is Unity, not Equality.

Bad player, lots of complaints. Nothing new.

Lazze.9870:

Bad player, lots of complaints. Nothing new.

While extremely blunt I’d have to agree with you regarding this post.

SotP: Even without the trait, it’s pulsing Stab, swiftness, and can be heavily used in conjunction with rapid hitting pets like a Bristleback. The trait lowers down the CD by a bit, and it adds group Regen and Swiftness.

Entangle: Great skill to have in a condi/trap build. Though easily escapable, the roots can be devastating once you’ve worn down your target to the point where they can’t easily get out of them.

Glyph: In CAF it’s a great tool for extra healing in pressure situations. Non-CAF is odd to use since you want to intentionally take damage to make full use of the buff. Otherwise, you got a Glyph on a relatively short CD to proc Verdant Etching.

Spirit: Pulses a great deal of HP/s, offers AoE Revive, and can be traited to pulse Stab in intervals for 60s. If you know you’re going to be in a mobile situation, don’t use it. Otherwise you got a 1,000/1,500 radius to place it to maximize its pulses. Generally, I use this guy in Fractals or Raids since its heal pulses plus regen from Water Spirit keep the team very healthy and allows me to break away from camping staff.

Elites across all the professions are usually worse than your average utility. I think this came from a mashup of GW2 builds, and GW1 ideas of the elite being the absolute defining factor of your build. To balance the elites in GW2 they had to put them on long CDs, and that made them inferior to a lot of utility skills you could use more often. Most of the elites choosen for GW2 PvP are on short CDs. Lich form doesn’t see a lot of use because you can basically remove the skill from a match with a single engi moa, or even just running slightly out of range.

As far as elites that are terrible across the board go, ranger elites are friggen amazing since they can actually be used.

Sotp is almost a guranteed 25 stacks of might, bring madking runes or have your pet burst then use “heal as one” to take their 25 stacks. The pulsing stability also saves you from having all your boons ripped

Entangle: its common for people to focus on the immob as being the point of this skill. Its not really, focus on the condi burst. Bring Krait runes and drop Torch 5 on top of them. If you set the burst up right its awesome

Ranger has some of the best elites in the game.

Strength of the pack giving fury, swiftness, AND stab, not to mention regen if your traited for it, is a huge advantage in fights

The theres entangle.. if youre a condi build using krait runes, you can deal some serious damage and control effects to an enemy group.

I would love to see an elite trap. Seriously, rangers used to be the only real trappers, now there’s the dragonhunter who can also use traps and they get an elite trap.

Apart from that I have to agree with most of the previous posts that Entangle and Strength of the Pack aren’t actually bad. I personally run Entangle on my condi build. Immobilize on 5 targets, 5 stacks of bleeding, 6s fury and 2 conditions removed on a cooldown of 48 seconds if traited? That’s pretty nice.

volpenvieh.3201:

I would love to see an elite trap. Seriously, rangers used to be the only trappers, now there’s the dragonhunter who can also use traps and they get an elite trap.

Cough Thief… And I can even recall a ranger complaining about thieves trap not long ago

Strength of the Pack used to be so much better…

Lorelei.3918:

Strength of the Pack used to be so much better…

It is so much better now

Old:
120s Cooldown
20s Stability, Fury, Swiftness + Might on Pet Hit – BOON STRIPPABLE FULLY

New:
60s Cooldown, can now be traited as it is a shout to 48s CD
10s ‘Strength of the Pack’ effect, which grants (every 3s so it cannot be fully boon stripped)
3s 3 Stacks Stability
3s Fury
3s Swiftness
(effectively pulsing 4 times, so 12s total of Stab, Fury, Swift)
+ Might from pet hit
+ 10s Regen when traited
+10s Swiftness when traited
Now works with ‘Rune of the Trooper’ (and of the reaper) as it is a shout

It is much better

Dadnir.5038:

volpenvieh.3201:

I would love to see an elite trap. Seriously, rangers used to be the only trappers, now there’s the dragonhunter who can also use traps and they get an elite trap.

Cough Thief… And I can even recall a ranger complaining about thieves trap not long ago

oh kitten right, i just never think of thieves as real trappers because their traps are annoying but they don’t burst you on their own

Why are people bothering to respond seriously to this clown?
It is obvious he has no clue about anything.

the elites arent bad, i just wish Entangle werent so easy to get off/break the vines. But the skill idea is cool.

anduriell.6280:

• entangle : the roots mechanics is a disgrace. You may trap some noobs but will not work with anybody with more than a 100 hour of gameplay.

I disagree. I have been playing this game since the betas, and I can’t tell you how much trouble this skill and others like it have caused me throughout all three game modes.

Jocksy.3415:

Though I agree that it would be nice to have the possibility to put normal skills on the elite position, it would soon get to be a nightmare, balance-wise.

Do you mean that the elites are so bad that if we could pick normal utility skills then rangers would get a lot stronger?

anduriell.6280:

I mean they are very bad in some way that make them undesirable to use.
first I would like to ask anet if possible to be able to select also a normal skill in the elite slot that could be a blast and make my life easier because we don’t have a signet and a trap, then I could equip something useful for my build instead something completely unrelevant.

Now let’s review the downside of every single elite:

• spirit of nature: nice concept. Unfortunately the lack of mobility, together with the lack of range in the active with the absurd long cd make this skill a little bit more than an occasional aoe heal in 3 mins cool down.
• strength of the pack: I use it only for the stab, because I have better means to get fury or might than a 60 second coll down skill for 9 seconds fury. Still not really worth it compared to the new shouts
• entangle : the roots mechanics is a disgrace. You may trap some noobs but will not work with anybody with more than a 100 hour of gameplay.
• glyph of equality : I use this one for the cleanse with verdant etching. The mechanic is very original and promising unfortunately the actual lack of range and any means of damage mitigation unless you waist another skill make you a little bit less than a suicide squad. You drop yourself in the middle of the zerg and hope for get downed 3 guys with the cost of your life.

So yeah, I could give some directions like the spirits to have the choice to be mobile and cast the active always when dying or the roots become unavoidable so you have to actually deal with the elite mechanic, but what do you think?

Although it only truly shines for one specific build/style if you think strength of the pack is bad you just haven’t figured out the true way to use it, and it is extremely strong for the way it is supposed to be used.

Now some feedback

Spirit of Nature

• General – I think all spirits should now be Ground Targeted since they lost their mobility. 900 range Ground Targeted sounds fair.
• Specific – Spirit of Nature should have it’s cooldown reduced to 90s, as now all spirits die on their skill active. Perhaps they should change the traited boon to resistance instead of stability (and give stability to Stone Spirit)

Entangle

• General – Survival skills are in a very good spot right now, except Sharpening Stone: The CD is ridiculous for its effect. Reducing base CD by about 33% to 30s base sounds MORE than fair. a 45 seconds CD for 5 bleeds for 7s? Riduculous.
• Specific – While it mentions it’s unblockable, the entangle effect itself IS blockable, meaning if you cast the skill and an opponent is blocking, the vines won’t spawn at his location. Change the skill to fully unblockable and we’re good. Maybe faster bleed and immob pulses?

Glyph of Equality

• General – Glyphs are okay-ish for now – I think verdant etching should be tweaked, and maybe tweak Glyph of Tides for blast finisher and Glyph of Rejuvenation for better healing coefficients, but that’s probably just me.
• Specific – The idea for Glyph of Equality is interesting, but the execution is somewhat poor. A suggestion I’ve posted a few times was to
  ¤ Apply conditions to tethered foes whenever the player gains a condition (minor versions of the conditions applied to the player) for the non-celestial version
  ¤ Apply boons to tethered allies whenever the player gains a boon (minor versions of boons applies to the player) for the celestial version.
  Just think of how interesting fights would get. It adds both offensive utility and defensive utility. I also think for PvE, they should add a pulsing damage component on the non-celestial version, as mobs attack really slowly – In fact, it’s one of the reasons they changed the Confusion Condition – Back in the day, it had no base pulsing damage component, because mobs are so slow to attack it wouldn’t really damage enemies.

Spirit of Nature
Total healing done = 192+1200*(0.15)=372 per second at 1000 range.
Revive up to 5 allies within 600 range (900 range with natures vengeance)
Clear 5 conditions.

This is a good skill, it fails only in that they removed the spirit movement mechanic.

Entangle
Hmm. You obviously have never played a trapper. Entangle combos so nicely with so many weapon skills AND all the traps that i can’t even velieve you have trouble catching people with it.

Glyph of Equality
Well designed skill that i personally don’t use because i play a shout druid.

Sharpening Stone: The CD is ridiculous for its effect. Reducing base CD by about 33% to 30s base sounds MORE than fair. a 45 seconds CD for 5 bleeds for 7s? Riduculous.

I couldn’t agree more with that. It’s an utility that haven’t even being touch after the condition revamp and the bleeding damage nerf. Beside even before that this skill was looked at like a subpar skill. Personnally I’d go as far as reduce the cool down to 25 seconds but maybe 30 seconds sound fair…

Glyph of Equality

General – Glyphs are okay-ish for now – I think verdant etching should be tweaked, and maybe tweak Glyph of Tides for blast finisher and Glyph of Rejuvenation for better healing coefficients, but that’s probably just me.
Specific – The idea for Glyph of Equality is interesting, but the execution is somewhat poor. A suggestion I’ve posted a few times was to
¤ Apply conditions to tethered foes whenever the player gains a condition (minor versions of the conditions applied to the player) for the non-celestial version
¤ Apply boons to tethered allies whenever the player gains a boon (minor versions of boons applies to the player) for the celestial version.
Just think of how interesting fights would get. It adds both offensive utility and defensive utility. I also think for PvE, they should add a pulsing damage component on the non-celestial version, as mobs attack really slowly – In fact, it’s one of the reasons they changed the Confusion Condition – Back in the day, it had no base pulsing damage component, because mobs are so slow to attack it wouldn’t really damage enemies.

Here I can’t agree. The druid line is not meant to apply boons. Glyph of equality is similar to retaliation and is probably meant to be seen this way. This elite skill is an opportunity and a way from Anet to ask rangers to try builds that capitalize on being hitten.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Now some feedback

Spirit of Nature

• General – I think all spirits should now be Ground Targeted since they lost their mobility. 900 range Ground Targeted sounds fair.
• Specific – Spirit of Nature should have it’s cooldown reduced to 90s, as now all spirits die on their skill active. Perhaps they should change the traited boon to resistance instead of stability (and give stability to Stone Spirit)

Entangle

• General – Survival skills are in a very good spot right now, except Sharpening Stone: The CD is ridiculous for its effect. Reducing base CD by about 33% to 30s base sounds MORE than fair. a 45 seconds CD for 5 bleeds for 7s? Riduculous.
• Specific – While it mentions it’s unblockable, the entangle effect itself IS blockable, meaning if you cast the skill and an opponent is blocking, the vines won’t spawn at his location. Change the skill to fully unblockable and we’re good. Maybe faster bleed and immob pulses?

Glyph of Equality

• General – Glyphs are okay-ish for now – I think verdant etching should be tweaked, and maybe tweak Glyph of Tides for blast finisher and Glyph of Rejuvenation for better healing coefficients, but that’s probably just me.
• Specific – The idea for Glyph of Equality is interesting, but the execution is somewhat poor. A suggestion I’ve posted a few times was to
  ¤ Apply conditions to tethered foes whenever the player gains a condition (minor versions of the conditions applied to the player) for the non-celestial version
  ¤ Apply boons to tethered allies whenever the player gains a boon (minor versions of boons applies to the player) for the celestial version.
  Just think of how interesting fights would get. It adds both offensive utility and defensive utility. I also think for PvE, they should add a pulsing damage component on the non-celestial version, as mobs attack really slowly – In fact, it’s one of the reasons they changed the Confusion Condition – Back in the day, it had no base pulsing damage component, because mobs are so slow to attack it wouldn’t really damage enemies.

…entangle is unblock able and spawns at the location. What are you talking about? It goes through rev shield, warr shield, etc.

To OP. Entangle is one of the best elites in the game and actually requires timing. L2 count dodges and escape utils.

Entangle is block-able "Despite the tooltip, the initial attack of skill can be blocked, and if it is blocked, the vines won’t be spawned on the blocking foe " Wiki

Entangle IS unblockable. I use it all the time against blocking opponents, because it is the easiest way to land it. Still feels useless most of the time, because almost everybody has so many ways to counter it, “counting escape utils” doesn’t help if there are so many things to count.

I don’t really get the purpose of Glyph of Unity, but I’d say that rest of Ranger elites are pretty kitten good.

Rym.1469:

I don’t really get the purpose of Glyph of Unity, but I’d say that rest of Ranger elites are pretty kitten good.

The leash in both forms are too short. 900m would have been more reasonable.