Guild Wars 2

This is more of a comparison and asking for peoples opinions than anything else.

In healing/apothecary/shaman(pvp) based builds, the typical weapon set for the build is axe/torch and sword/dagger, or axe/dagger and sword/torch.

My question is, what purpose does the axe/dagger serve when compared to the shortbow?

They have their minor differences, but in general:

Similar:
-single evade skill
-bleeding is main source of damage
-soft CC (axe chill, dagger cripple, shortbow cripple)

Different:
-shortbow bleed requires flanking positioning for bleeds, axe requires point blank positioning
-axe chill is stronger CC than shortbow cripple, but shortbow cripple can make your pet apply bleed, for more damage, while axe applies weakness, which is good, but needs (and is probably getting) a buff
-shortbow has an interupt
-axe/dagger has a longer evade, and that evade applies poison, for offensive and defensive uses, while shortbow has an evade that gives an arbitrary amount of swiftness, and a poison cone

Shortbow Pros/Cons:
+1200 range
+fast firerate = good autoattack sustain
+interrupt
+1200 ranged cripple CC
+evade
-flanking requirement for full damage
-poison cone means needing to get point blank, eliminates the 1200 range strength
-shorter evade than dagger
-less useful additional effect on evade than dagger

Axe/Dagger
+Bouncing autoattack = semi AoE
+Ability to apply 5 decent length bleeds at once
+Chill is amazing AND access to cripple as well
+Addition ability to bleed and cripple with dagger 5
+very long evasion frames on dagger 4
+dagger 4 applies a long lasting poison
-less damaging autoattack = poorer DPS than shortbow
-shorter range than shortbow, basically a melee set
-Dagger 5 is easily avoidable
-have to choose between using Dagger 4 offensively or defensively, so evade may be on cooldown when needed if not careful

So overall, what does everybody else thing? I still haven’t settled on either. Sometimes I really appreciate that 1200 range, but at other times I feel that axe/dagger is stronger.

Forgetting the #5 on dagger bleed/cripple.

Thought I got it on the 4th ‘+’ down under the axe dagger section. Or does it need to be more descriptive/better placed?

Depends on what you are fighting and how you fight. Against a melee such as a thief when you are alone, axe/dagger works well because you can combine it with your other weapon set for great chemistry. Also, 1200 range doesn’t mean much because of the insane amounts of gap closers most classes have. You can apply a lot of bleeds for a longer duration, evasion and poison. Then you switch to sword/torch, apply burns, have some more evasions and possible fire aura. After you are done, you switch back and hit them with another set of bleeds and anything else off of cooldowns. You can make quick work of thieves with that combo even if they stealth.

Shortbow is good for fighting range classes or in a large group. These fights are a little longer and the sustained autoattack damage adds up after awhile. It is also a great finsher. When you see people running, you apply the cripple, wait for them to dodge, pop stun. You and your crew can catch and kill them. Shortbow is also very easy to use. You ping your target at range. If attacked, switch to something like greatsword, swoop away and get some distance, then switch back to shortbow and repeat. Great for slow people like me that don’t like using a bunch of keys in combat.

For BM builds shortbow is a poor weapon choice imo, Axe+dagger is way better.

Shortbow does pretty low damage in bm condi builds, the only advantage it has is interrupting heals with #5.

Since you don’t use flame trap or sun spirit in Bm condi builds you need to run torch otherwise you’ll have no burning. That means if you want to run shortbow you have to give up axe or sword and dagger (one of rangers best weapons).
With offhand training Stalkers strike is like a mini blurred frenzy with a 1.25sec evade on an 8 sec cd with a 10sec poison on top.

Well the ideal setup faceoff is shortbow/sword+torch vs axe+dagger/sword+torch.

As is, I’ve only found a use for shortbow on a BM build sitting on keep walls in WvW. There are a few rangers here and there in s/tpvp that run shortbow on their BM build (particularly Ovi), but aside from that, I don’t see an instance where the shortbow is better.

But that’s why I made the thread; somebody out there thinks the shortbow is better, and I’m assuming that I’m approaching it narrow-minded because I can be stuck in my ways sometimes. So I was hoping to pick their brain on the issue.

I play a BM power build with birds that regens endurance like a boss and a GS! This game is a combination of interlinked rings and should be viewed as such…

SB Cripple + Bird bleed + Maul = bleed that push your DPS to a good level.

I tend to read many critiquing specific weapon and few do so with regards to a set but this game goes much further than that…You can and should combine synergies to find a style you like and ones that works.

SB 5 (Daze) + Mesmer Rune (33% Daze) —→ GS 5 (daze or stun) and you just neutralised a melee attacker.

Get good at doing the above and now you can incorporate GS 5 stun after SB Daze with Raven F2+Maul and WHAAAAM burst city here we come!

This is just the surface, you can do much of the same with many more synergies…If Thieves are your bane, no problem, get used to LB and all of a sudden they have less than half HP in ONE burst sequence…

Shortbow is better when you reverse the roles and you have your pet go condi while you go power, otherwise I feel it’s lacking.

Axe has perma movement speed reduction on enemy when paired with dagger, leaving them unable to escape your pet, has the spike bleeding with a much easier condition to be met, and has a better poisoning skill.

However if you, say have a lynx, with malicious training, expertise training, and rending training SB turns them into a freaking bleeding machine with that cripple and SB is quite a bit better at dealing physical damage than the Axe/Dagger.

Durzlla.6295:

Shortbow is better when you reverse the roles and you have your pet go condi while you go power, otherwise I feel it’s lacking.

Axe has perma movement speed reduction on enemy when paired with dagger, leaving them unable to escape your pet, has the spike bleeding with a much easier condition to be met, and has a better poisoning skill.

However if you, say have a lynx, with malicious training, expertise training, and rending training SB turns them into a freaking bleeding machine with that cripple and SB is quite a bit better at dealing physical damage than the Axe/Dagger.

Some really good points, thanks!

Actually just in use, I think the biggest selling point for Axe/Dagger is that using Dagger 4 offensively into Splitblade feels like the perfect combination, even when compared to axe/torch. With axe torch, splitblade feels more clunky, like it doesn’t have a proper weapon skill setup to combo into it.

Often the intention of these builds is to weapon swap as often as you can to rotate through all your abilities, as well as trigger “on-equip” sigils. SB I find encourages people to be lazy and just stay on that and let the autoattack bleeds stack up, but you will never get as many stacks doing it that way.

Theres just a disconnect as if you’re fighting at 1000-1200 range with the SB you will not need (or indeed want to) swap out to your melee set, meaning a lot of the time you’re missing out on your poisons, burning, and getting fewer bleed stacks on than you could be.

You can also add weakness to yor foe with axe, although probably not a selling argument on the axe+dagger combo.

Nugget.8031:

For BM builds shortbow is a poor weapon choice imo, Axe+dagger is way better.

Shortbow does pretty low damage in bm condi builds, the only advantage it has is interrupting heals with #5.

Since you don’t use flame trap or sun spirit in Bm condi builds you need to run torch otherwise you’ll have no burning. That means if you want to run shortbow you have to give up axe or sword and dagger (one of rangers best weapons).
With offhand training Stalkers strike is like a mini blurred frenzy with a 1.25sec evade on an 8 sec cd with a 10sec poison on top.

Not all BM setups, for a powerbuild or a rabid condi build the shortbow is great, if you’re using the apothecary/settler ones it probably doesn’t work as well, atleast not for pvp cause it can be difficult to consistently apply enough bleeds and the physical damage becomes really pitiful with that setup.

Cufufalating.8479:

Often the intention of these builds is to weapon swap as often as you can to rotate through all your abilities, as well as trigger “on-equip” sigils. SB I find encourages people to be lazy and just stay on that and let the autoattack bleeds stack up, but you will never get as many stacks doing it that way.

Theres just a disconnect as if you’re fighting at 1000-1200 range with the SB you will not need (or indeed want to) swap out to your melee set, meaning a lot of the time you’re missing out on your poisons, burning, and getting fewer bleed stacks on than you could be.

This is pretty much what I meant aswell, you phrased it much better though, it’s very true that you want to stay with the shortbow once you have it out it just works much better that way and swapping to your melee set when someone is in your grill and the shortbow has everything on CD anyway.

Actually the axe #3 doesn’t inflict weakness as stated in the tooltip. It gives you pet an attack of opportunity. (+50% dmg on next hit)

Taku.6352:

Actually the axe #3 doesn’t inflict weakness as stated in the tooltip. It gives you pet an attack of opportunity. (+50% dmg on next hit)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winter's_Bite

1. “Expose Opening falsely claims to buff your pets next attack damage by 150%”
2. “Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.”

In the future, please test the skill in question in the mists before claiming something is broken.

actually , u can easily use the SB as a melee weapon . You can shotgun the poison volley just as you can split blade , you have an evade as well , you have a cripple , and you trade a freeze and weakness for an interrupt . You also trade some damage for range and versatility in chasing .

It depends on the preference imo, both can work but for pure shortranged duels , axe+dagger is really strong

Chokolata.1870:

actually , u can easily use the SB as a melee weapon . You can shotgun the poison volley just as you can split blade , you have an evade as well , you have a cripple , and you trade a freeze and weakness for an interrupt . You also trade some damage for range and versatility in chasing .

It depends on the preference imo, both can work but for pure shortranged duels , axe+dagger is really strong

Oh you absolutely can and I try to always shotgun the poison on my shortbow when possible but for the apothecary setup it’s not as good because flanking an opponent that is seeking you out can be diffucult and then you arent stacking bleeds, switching to the axe+dagger on the other hand with a fresh petswap (cat) between you and the pet you can apply 20stacks of bleeding or more in the blink of an eye aswell as apply several other conditions.

Not that i frequently use it, but axe/dagger is a combo which gives u range and melee in one. It’s a good combo (plus 2 sigils), u can range, have aoe, and when they close in u have evade. And can then change to full melee. Also other way round, when they flee, u have a cripple, chill, gs as gap closer.
Axe is also more meleefriendly than sb, due to the bounce.
It’s not bad, but it think there are better options, but it will depend on your playstyle.
Sb misses a lot of it’s potential in a bm apo build.

Easy, tons of evades. Both wep sets give you numerous evades that can be chained together, sometimes, I can go an entire fight vs a melee class and not get hit. Better than sword/dager imo because it forces one weapon set into a non-defensive position.

Aaaaaaaand Axe = pretty much perma weakness, glancing hits? Yes please, couple it with protection and it’s gg.

I’m really liking axe/dagger. I’ve played power/prec/toughness with a sword/dagger for the longest time. It takes some getting used to in order to effectively swap from axe/dagger to sword/torch in a planful way so that you have the right weapon set at the right time.

I’ve found it very effective to move in close with sword/torch and after I set things a-burnin’ I used Sword 2 to get some distance and weapon swap to axe/dagger.

I was a die-hard SB + S/D power/prec/tough build, but I think I am being converted to the regen/condition bandwagon (settler’s gear ftw!)

I run SB primarily with Sword/Horn OH BM regen build (atm using some boon sharing tests)

Since I see the pet as my primary dmg provider most of the skills I choose is about giving the pet boosts or attack opportunities. As such the SB cripple, stun methods paired with a high rate of fire and Companions might and roots elite works well together.

However the secondary weaponset is a concern for me, Sword/Horn is great for evades and speed utility (saves a signet in pvp) but it lacks range but since I consider it primarily as an evade set im ok with.

Out of curiosity is there a gs, axe/dagger build? If so, what type of pets/gear/jewels/foods/etc. would you use, to use in PvE, dungeons, and wvw (would have both bows for backup just in case)?

Interesting to see the responses. I really expected more people to favor and have supporting arguments for the shortbow (since that would reflect my ingame experience with other rangers).

Just like an fyi type of thing, weakness isn’t as strong as it could be because it doesn’t affect critical hits. Meaning that against glass cannons, who are stacking crits as much as possible, it doesn’t necessarily reduce their ideal burst at all. Against bunkers, most bunker builds damage output is already fairly low, so while it doesn’t hurt, for a ranger, really, the most effective class to use weakness against is a D/D or S/D ele, as some of their skills have fairly high damage coefficients for survival builds, and weakness will really help if you miss your dodges.

Other than that though, there is definitely talk of buffing the effects of weakness, as right now it just isn’t strong enough. Ideally what’s being considered is 25 or 33% of ALL attacks have a chance to be glancing (not just noncrits), meaning the axe will instantly become an even better weapon than it already is for rangers.

Weakness doesn’t affect criticals………yet.

jcbroe.4329:

Interesting to see the responses. I really expected more people to favor and have supporting arguments for the shortbow (since that would reflect my ingame experience with other rangers).

Just like an fyi type of thing, weakness isn’t as strong as it could be because it doesn’t affect critical hits. Meaning that against glass cannons, who are stacking crits as much as possible, it doesn’t necessarily reduce their ideal burst at all. Against bunkers, most bunker builds damage output is already fairly low, so while it doesn’t hurt, for a ranger, really, the most effective class to use weakness against is a D/D or S/D ele, as some of their skills have fairly high damage coefficients for survival builds, and weakness will really help if you miss your dodges.

Other than that though, there is definitely talk of buffing the effects of weakness, as right now it just isn’t strong enough. Ideally what’s being considered is 25 or 33% of ALL attacks have a chance to be glancing (not just noncrits), meaning the axe will instantly become an even better weapon than it already is for rangers.

The reason i don´t use shortbow anymore (at least not in WvW, in sPvP it´s another thing though) is simply that it has nothing to offer in terms of AoE damage, which is very important in WvW. I´m running a BM build while skirmishing with a group of 3-10 people, especially in situations where we´re outnumbered axe + either dagger, torch, or even double axe seem to be much better. It´s really sad that in order to get at least some AoE damage on our bows we need to put 20 points in MM. Alright, barrage on LB is offering AoE damage. At least every 30 seconds or so. So in my opinion axe is way stronger since shortbow only shines when you´re chasing someone. I have to admit, that the moment I realized how thieves´shortbow is working I felt kinda depressed. It´s so cheasy to use and you can basically spam all over the place…

Varani.9207:

jcbroe.4329:

Interesting to see the responses. I really expected more people to favor and have supporting arguments for the shortbow (since that would reflect my ingame experience with other rangers).

Just like an fyi type of thing, weakness isn’t as strong as it could be because it doesn’t affect critical hits. Meaning that against glass cannons, who are stacking crits as much as possible, it doesn’t necessarily reduce their ideal burst at all. Against bunkers, most bunker builds damage output is already fairly low, so while it doesn’t hurt, for a ranger, really, the most effective class to use weakness against is a D/D or S/D ele, as some of their skills have fairly high damage coefficients for survival builds, and weakness will really help if you miss your dodges.

Other than that though, there is definitely talk of buffing the effects of weakness, as right now it just isn’t strong enough. Ideally what’s being considered is 25 or 33% of ALL attacks have a chance to be glancing (not just noncrits), meaning the axe will instantly become an even better weapon than it already is for rangers.

The reason i don´t use shortbow anymore (at least not in WvW, in sPvP it´s another thing though) is simply that it has nothing to offer in terms of AoE damage, which is very important in WvW. I´m running a BM build while skirmishing with a group of 3-10 people, especially in situations where we´re outnumbered axe + either dagger, torch, or even double axe seem to be much better. It´s really sad that in order to get at least some AoE damage on our bows we need to put 20 points in MM. Alright, barrage on LB is offering AoE damage. At least every 30 seconds or so. So in my opinion axe is way stronger since shortbow only shines when you´re chasing someone. I have to admit, that the moment I realized how thieves´shortbow is working I felt kinda depressed. It´s so cheasy to use and you can basically spam all over the place…

Besides the axe autoattack and torch bonfire, the majority of my AoE comes from Sigil of Geomancy. PBAoE 7s of 3 bleeds is really strong in a condition based BM build, and I think the only other sigil option I would run is Energy sigils for more dodges, but I would lose a fair amount of DoT (damage over time).

Sigil of Geomancy is fairly strong for most builds, it’s even considered strong for power builds by some people, but there isn’t a lot of info out there on them. Still, go to the mists with a crit build and the sigils on and watch the battlelog, and you can see why it would be a favorable choice for adding extra damage on builds like D/D eles.

Not saying it’s more competitive than other choices, but it is an option.

Maybe that’s what I’ll tell now will sound strange…
but IMO Axe+dagger canot be good option for me due to some grafikal issues (precisely when I throw any weapon for a phew seconds both weapons and back item dissapears, yeah that thing is irritating enough to make change in fight)

usually i run into axe/torch and sword/dagger. this gives a strong midrange set and a strong melee set.

the only time i see people using axe/dagger is when they also run sword/torch, and the idea here is that they didn’t want to have all their weapon-based evades on a single weapon swap.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Maybe that’s what I’ll tell now will sound strange…
but IMO Axe+dagger canot be good option for me due to some grafikal issues (precisely when I throw any weapon for a phew seconds both weapons and back item dissapears, yeah that thing is irritating enough to make change in fight)

You just went full kitten. Never go full kitten.

Anyways It’s pointless to run sword/dagger and axe/torch imo because it forces you into 1 defensive wep set and 1 offensive wep set and forces you to have a tougher time being bottlenecked into making decisions that will kitten you over in a fight.

Perfect example I was using sword/torch vs an ele and it was going fine until 2 more people came up behind me and I had to pop my heal instantly and couldn’t, serpents was on cd since I just used it to avoid burst, swapped to axe/dagger and managed an evade+dodge just in time to get my heal off as the ele was going for a knockdown. Had I not had defensive measure on both weapon sets, I would have died and not been abale to take out said baddies. Given that single evade on dagger and gave me an evade into some protection on top of bark skin I was able to make my 900ish hp into over 10k.

Personally I hate Bark Skin (when choosing between it and Empathic Bond).

I switched up my build and I’m running 0/0/30/20/20 with the 10 extra points grabbing Nature’s protection, which to me acts like a pseudo Bark Skin with a different conditional. Also, another 1k vitality and 10% added to my regen/boon duration doesn’t hurt either.

I haven’t really missed those 10 points in BM yet.

Use axe/torch as follows:
Use #3 to chill foe and pets next attack adds weakness
Use #4 to add a 6 second burn
Use #5 bonfire to add an AOE burn and a fire field
Swap to sword/dagger (With Sigil of Geomancy for a nice bleed)
Use #5 Crippling Talon for more cripple, bleeding and a projectile finisher
Futz around with skills 1-4 until swap cool down is reached
Swap to axe/torch (With Sigil of Geomancy for another bleed)

Repeat cycle as needed, but usually once the projectile finisher goes off, your average level 80 mob will have just a sliver of life left, so you may not need anything after the finisher.

At least that’s how it works for my vanilla BM Apothecary Build using Jaguar and Drake.

Works great vs mobs, and unsophisticated WvW players. Good WvW players know the counters etc. so more effort is required.

Furajir.3815:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Maybe that’s what I’ll tell now will sound strange…
but IMO Axe+dagger canot be good option for me due to some grafikal issues (precisely when I throw any weapon for a phew seconds both weapons and back item dissapears, yeah that thing is irritating enough to make change in fight)

You just went full kitten. Never go full kitten.

Anyways It’s pointless to run sword/dagger and axe/torch imo because it forces you into 1 defensive wep set and 1 offensive wep set and forces you to have a tougher time being bottlenecked into making decisions that will kitten you over in a fight.

Perfect example I was using sword/torch vs an ele and it was going fine until 2 more people came up behind me and I had to pop my heal instantly and couldn’t, serpents was on cd since I just used it to avoid burst, swapped to axe/dagger and managed an evade+dodge just in time to get my heal off as the ele was going for a knockdown. Had I not had defensive measure on both weapon sets, I would have died and not been abale to take out said baddies. Given that single evade on dagger and gave me an evade into some protection on top of bark skin I was able to make my 900ish hp into over 10k.

define what “full kitten” means to You
really I tried that weapon but I aslo have a quiver at my back – and instant appear/dissapear circle are distracting me enough to lose some fight that I wouldn’t lose with for example greatsword in hand.
and that sample of “Had I not had defensive measure on both weapon sets, I would….” is invalid – You are talking with “all-survi” guy
btw. on GS I have a way more both evades and mobility than You with sword+dagger :P

Lord Trejgon.2809:

btw. on GS I have a way more both evades and mobility than You with sword+dagger :P

GS has only 1 evade that is part of the auto attack chain. It also has one block, one swoop and one interrupt—a lot of utility to be sure.

S/D has and evade on 2 (plus a jump to target or away from target, depending on need), an evade on 3 and an evade on 4.

How does GS have more mobility and evade than S/D?

mobility – because autochain of gs don’t lock You in place
more evade – because atack 3 on auto (which lasts 3/4 second of “evade”) is used more often that all evade from sword+dagger – for example – in single figth with a lvl 80 mob with sword + dagger I used once all the skills with evade (hornet sting, serpent strike, number 4 from dagger) that grants me a 3 evades. in same time mob hakittenting me wth no problem and after fight I had 1/3 hp lost (in groups of 3+ mobs it’s deadly)
in the same fight with greatsword I castet “evade” skill at least 5 times + I was running in cirle all around them and he has a problem with hit me (when he landed a hit most often it was “evade”) in group of mobs I can do the same – but running around all the group and hitting all of them – and kill 10+ group of lvl 80 mobs without nearly any loose on health (with sword+dagger died in phew seconds)
and Counteratack skill form GS blocks all atacks that is not unblockable so its very usefull.
Next thing – give me target to grant me possibility of hitting all my Auto skills in WvW – and I don’t even feel that I stand in the middle of Arrow Cart AoE atack.
Convinced?
(on single target fight I can keep 3 stacks of bleeding on enemy all the time from just greatsword – add jaguar with trait that felines canines and drakes bleed on crit = many bleeds)

jcbroe.4329:

Besides the axe autoattack and torch bonfire, the majority of my AoE comes from Sigil of Geomancy. PBAoE 7s of 3 bleeds is really strong in a condition based BM build, and I think the only other sigil option I would run is Energy sigils for more dodges, but I would lose a fair amount of DoT (damage over time).

Sigil of Geomancy is fairly strong for most builds, it’s even considered strong for power builds by some people, but there isn’t a lot of info out there on them. Still, go to the mists with a crit build and the sigils on and watch the battlelog, and you can see why it would be a favorable choice for adding extra damage on builds like D/D eles.

Not saying it’s more competitive than other choices, but it is an option.

Personally, I much prefer Sigil of Hydromancy instead – pbaoe for 500:ish damage, can critical hit, scales with power AND chills opponents. My absolute favourite weapon swap sigil by far.

OGDeadHead.8326:

jcbroe.4329:

Besides the axe autoattack and torch bonfire, the majority of my AoE comes from Sigil of Geomancy. PBAoE 7s of 3 bleeds is really strong in a condition based BM build, and I think the only other sigil option I would run is Energy sigils for more dodges, but I would lose a fair amount of DoT (damage over time).

Sigil of Geomancy is fairly strong for most builds, it’s even considered strong for power builds by some people, but there isn’t a lot of info out there on them. Still, go to the mists with a crit build and the sigils on and watch the battlelog, and you can see why it would be a favorable choice for adding extra damage on builds like D/D eles.

Not saying it’s more competitive than other choices, but it is an option.

Personally, I much prefer Sigil of Hydromancy instead – pbaoe for 500:ish damage, can critical hit, scales with power AND chills opponents. My absolute favourite weapon swap sigil by far.

O.o that deals damage? Mother of god, I can take advantage of that….

Geomancy = condi, Hydromancy = raw numbers

Yea, never knew it did damage..that’s good info.

But yea, that’s a Clerics Build Sigil right there.

Anyway as for original topic, I’ve tried Axe/Dagger and Sword/Torch, but It feels weird to me..its probably the fact I’ve been playing S/D A/T for 6 or 7 months now that keeps me from really trying it…

Xsorus.2507:

Yea, never knew it did damage..that’s good info.

But yea, that’s a Clerics Build Sigil right there.

Anyway as for original topic, I’ve tried Axe/Dagger and Sword/Torch, but It feels weird to me..its probably the fact I’ve been playing S/D A/T for 6 or 7 months now that keeps me from really trying it…

Yah i almost went Hydromancy for my build but ended up with Battle.

I find A/D S/T better due to having evades on both weapon sets so you can dodge if you get imob.

I definitely understand going hydromancy sigils, I just prefer having the geomancy for the damage of the utility of the chill. Either is a viable choice.

@Xsorus, I was the same way before I switched over, and that was partially why I made the thread comparing it the shortbow, because I figured “why use Axe/Dagger if it does the same thing as the shortbow.” So I then made this thread to see exactly how similar they are, and it turns out, the Axe/Dagger is a much better choice on an Apothecary set.

Also, after playing axe/torch sword/dagger for so long, switching to Axe/Dagger felt more suited to how I personally play, because of how offensively I play, especially when using Sigils of Geomancy. There were times when I didn’t need to be in my Sword/Dagger set, but switched anyways because I wanted the damage from the Sigils, and ended up not having the damage output I wanted for 9s because I swapped at an inopportune time.

I’ve also seen a particularly interesting variation of a trap build that uses shortbow/axe+dagger and takes advantage of offhand training and the long lasting poison so running snake trap was unnecessary, opening up the 3rd utility slot.

I tend to follow a combo when I do my setup, I talked about it in the video…it seems to work pretty well.

No I know. It’s more a preference than anything. I switch between the two variations depending on how stagnant I feel my gameplay has gotten. Neither way seems better than the other.

I’ve finished ppl off with hydromancy sigil weapon swap alone on a number of occasions – good stuff!