Guild Wars 2

As the the title states, I feel that this is a must for the ranger’s spirit skills. The spirit skills themselves are great, I can’t complain about what they are capable of, but they are still useless imo because they can’t move or last in a fight.

Rangers lack in support for most pve content. Our best/most reliable ability is “Spotter.” But that doesn’t even compare to the amount of undeniable support that guardians, warriors, or eles have. Rangers have the capability of providing this support, but its blocked off by poor execution of this ability, aka the Spirits.

Spirits are great, in theory, but they just don’t survive long enough to spread their love to our players. Anytime I’m in a dungeon, I have to pre plan where I need to put my spirit to TRY and avoid getting hit. Even then, they end up getting hit and basically dying in an instant. Which is why I just can’t run it sometimes.

So why not make them more like Warrior banners (If you want to stick with the immobile idea). Why can warriors get a form of support that can’t be destroyed, and can be actively moved around when rangers get a form of support that gets destroyed at almost the instant a fight begins and is stuck in a single location? With the way pve works (stacking in corners), there is no way that spirits will survive long enough to be viable in any shape or form.

The things that mostly sparked this idea was seeing the new Revanent using Ventari’s Tablet. Its a mobile (yet clunky) AI that can’t be destroyed. Its main role is support, and it does it fairly well. So why are other classes allowed to have indefinite methods of support while the ranger cannot?

My personal idea would be having spirits are immobile, invulnerable buff locations that plays must actively interact with to receive a temporary buff (somewhat like food stations). Not saying that this is the best way to execute this skill, its just a personal idea so that its unique to the class and not stealing anything away from any other class.

I’m sure there has to be other ways that these abilities can be fixed but, as they are, they are almost completely useless (maybe besides frost spirit). Their ability to get damaged makes them almost completely useless, before it was manageable because they moved but being immobile and vulnerable makes them a liability to the ranger class. Why chose a skill that might survive long enough to buff up the party, when you can just chose a warrior who’s banners will DEFINITELY buff up the party regardless of the situation.

If anyone else as some other ideas or comments, please share.

PS: By no means to I believe spirits should automatically be made immune to damage and mobile, that’s just asking for a nerf. I just believe it needs to become a definite form of support that can’t be taken away other than from a duration timer. Obviously of changes are made, they need to be balanced.

+1

Something needs to change with them as they are garbage right now. I would even say removing the active effect would be fine if they could not follow you, just make the passive decent and have a longer range.

I’d rather spirits do something interesting, besides give increased damage, give prot, give burn, give swiftness, etc.
Bring back things like:
Tranquility
Frozen Soil
Muddy Terrain
Predatory Season
and the pinnacle of amazing spirits….
Edge of Extinction

Tranquility: make boons expire faster
Frozen Soil: can’t revive downed/dead players
Muddy Terrain: no speed buffs
Predatory Season: reduced healing
EoE: don’t change a thing.

Shadow Phage.9084:

I’d rather spirits do something interesting, besides give increased damage, give prot, give burn, give swiftness, etc.
Bring back things like:
Tranquility
Frozen Soil
Muddy Terrain
Predatory Season
and the pinnacle of amazing spirits….
Edge of Extinction

Tranquility: make boons expire faster
Frozen Soil: can’t revive downed/dead players
Muddy Terrain: no speed buffs
Predatory Season: reduced healing
EoE: don’t change a thing.

Those sound awesome but it seems that those abilities only benefit in a PvP/WvW based environment. As a result rangers will still remain non-beneficial in in a pve setting.

Plus if those abilities were given instead, spirits would need to get a major overhaul in terms of their health and toughness along with mobility vs. stagnancy because they would then become major targets by enemy players.

idontnoso.9850:

Shadow Phage.9084:

I’d rather spirits do something interesting, besides give increased damage, give prot, give burn, give swiftness, etc.
Bring back things like:
Tranquility
Frozen Soil
Muddy Terrain
Predatory Season
and the pinnacle of amazing spirits….
Edge of Extinction

Tranquility: make boons expire faster
Frozen Soil: can’t revive downed/dead players
Muddy Terrain: no speed buffs
Predatory Season: reduced healing
EoE: don’t change a thing.

Those sound awesome but it seems that those abilities only benefit in a PvP/WvW based environment. As a result rangers will still remain non-beneficial in in a pve setting.

Plus if those abilities were given instead, spirits would need to get a major overhaul in terms of their health and toughness along with mobility vs. stagnancy because they would then become major targets by enemy players.

Most of them were indeed largely PvP-centric. Edge of Extinction, outside of a gimmick PvP team build, was mostly used in PvE for farming though. I admit, however, that even EoE might not do too well in GW2 PvE dungeons. This is largely due to the fact that EoE becomes useless against single targets, such as solitary bosses. On the other hand, if the boss spawned adds and the boss and adds shared a type (i.e. undead), then EoE would do a fair bit of work.
An example of EoE
What’s happening is the boss spawns adds that then blow up and die. Because they share a racial type with the boss, the boss takes damage when they die. EoE is doing a huge chunk of the damage to the boss.

Also, I didn’t list all the spirits though, namely because a bunch don’t translate well at all.
For instance, Greater Conflagration. In GW1, it changed all physical damage into elemental Fire damage. That does literally nothing in GW2. Direct damage in GW2 doesn’t have types and subtypes.

As for other spirits from GW1 that could find a PvE home (since that’s mostly about corner stacking and loading up on damage modifiers and burst damage):
Winnowing: Direct damage attacks would be increased by a flat amount.
Quickening Zephyr: would give Alacrity (the Chronomancer CDR effect)

As for health/toughness, GW1 spirits weren’t overly durable either. Instead they had an effect radius of, translated to GW2, about 2k – 2k5 units. And yes, they were targets because they were designed to radically warp a rather large area of the battlefield in some manner.

That said, those were just examples. While I would like to see some of them return, what I really want is for ranger spirits to be interesting. Something unique. Something that isn’t a translucent, colored, kill-able warrior banner.

Heres some food for thought that can eventually be worked into Druid. Why not make the spirits toggled, and modify the summoning mechanic so they become better as field effects.

Right now they fail because their passive benefits are generally weak, and they can be neutralized with even minor collateral damage.

Instead, why not have them Summon with initial major buff (in a visual burst of primal energy) and then emits its passive buff (most of which needs retuning anyway). As a base line feature, each spirit triggers a major effect on dismissal (or death if still kept), which gives support to allies and hinders enemies on death. Intentional dismissal reduces the cool down timers.

Without knowing much about the Druid, I can’t say how well exactly it will mesh. But this ability to call in a major initial group buff, a minor, but desirable passive buff, and a 3rd effect (boons if anything) with significant enemy risk, encourages you to drop and recover them as you move around at the beginning or near the end of fights.

This moves their entire strategy around when to use and dismiss them for maximum effect (which is a staple concept on every other class), with the passive benefits aimed at increasing pressure in the area.

Some examples.

Edge of Extinction:
Initial effect: Enemies with less then 90% health take Damage (1000u)
Passive: (Debuff 3s) Enemies in range (1000u) take damage if below 50% health every 3 seconds. Enemies lose health faster when downed.
Dismissal: Deal large damage to all enemies below 50% health (600u) (functions as AOE attack)

Favorable Winds:
Initial: Summons Swirling Winds (3 seconds)
Passive: All friendly projectiles deal 2% more damage, and have +40% to projectile finisher chance. (900u)
Dismissal: Grants 12 seconds of swiftness to all allies (900u), knocks back enemies (300u?), and leaves a swirling winds effects (3 sec) that reflects projectiles.

Predatory Season:
Initial: Enemies are hexed with “The Hunted” (1200u) and Allies gain Hunter’s Instict (1200u) for 8 seconds. Hunter’s Instinct has a 10% chance on hit to steal life from foes marked with “The Hunted”.
Passive: Enemies in range of spirit when “The Hunted” expires is crippled for 2 seconds. Allies in range of spirit when Hunter’s Instinct expires gain swiftness when it expires.
Dismissal: (Automatic after 8.5 seconds) Hunter’s Reward: Heals for (0.7)

Toxicity:
Initial: Toxicity- Allies gain 150 Condition damage (6 seconds)
Passive: Enemies take damage (xx) damage when conditions expire (does not affect conditions that were removed by skills or effects)
Dismissal: Pestilence- 1200u Enemies under the effects of poison or bleed spread them to nearby enemies. (Bleed 5 sec, Poison 6 sec)

Tranquility (elite):
Initial: Removes 1 boon from enemies (?u), Allies gain Resilience (2sec)
Passive: When boons expire on allies while in range of spirit they are healed for ()
Dismissal: Nature’s Renewal. Removes 2 conditions from all allies, removes 2 boons from enemies.

Elite: Conflagration
Initial effect: Generates Fire field for 6 seconds (320). Allies in 600u gain burning (3 sec) on their next attack.
Passive: Burning damage increased 5% within 1500u
Dismissal: Deals Damage (600u), leaves fire field for 3 seconds (320u) and applies 2 stack of might for 10 seconds to allies.

I never used spirit’s much before but now I can’t think of any reason why they exist in the game. New ANet ranger is so bad at most things but spirits are just a joke.

I’m not the biggest fan of major changes but the Spirits do need a buff. That is a fact.

So let’s look at an easy fix: Buff their HP, increase their range of effect and let the follow you? And maybe increase the proc rate. Them being static hurts more then anything.

Would that be a simple fix or is more needed?

I have said this several times before in spirit threads, but I’m going to say it again

Spirits need to be made OP by design to create strategic plays with them.

Remove the active completely, make the proc chance 100%, shorten the effect CDs, double the passive range, buff the passive effect and make the boons that Nature’s Vengeance pulses good.
Water Spirit – The passive heal becomes a lifesteal with no ICD – Resistance
Sun Spirit – Vigor on pulse is fine, increase the burn stacks per proc.
Stone Spirit – Protection is fine, but Stability would be better.
Frost Spirit – Might is a joke, change to Fury.
Storm Spirit – More swiftness? Change passive to 1/4s Daze on struck target and boon to quickness.
Nature Spirit – Increase passive range to 360 before Nature’s Vengeance doubles it. Pulse Aegis.

Since they are immobile and can be easily killed, they are easily counterable, but it may require moving out of position to do so. Which is exactly how they should be.

Spirits that are completely passive will just be as dull of a mechanic as any other passive in this game. What spirits need is a purpose. Right now they function as banners with some extra flavor but with huge drawbacks. They need to be unique. They need to have an impact that goes beyond what we are currently getting, so that they become desirable in any situation.

One idea would be to strengthen attacks (on hit effects) of the Ranger and his teammates or defenses (when getting hit). The Frostspirit could infuse all attacks of nearby allies to give them stronger attacks, just as the current passive does, with the difference that the allies only have to be in range when the ability is cast, rather than having to stay in range of the spirit as they currently have to be. The active could buff the attacks of infused weapons even more, the Frost Spirit could add a boon that applies chill on hit for example. The counterplay to this new mechanic could be to kill the pet, which is acting as a vessel for the spirits, to cut the effect.

An idea to make this even better would be that the spirits don’t go on a regular cooldown, but build up charges instead. If channeled, the trigger (on hit or being hit) will remove one charge. That would allow to run multiple spirits and quickly change up the effects, implying that only one spirit can be active at a time. To further incentivize this idea, the active could consume all charges currently stored on that spirit to boost the strength of the active effect, so you can trade steady bonuses for bursts.

Wuselknusel.4082:

Spirits that are completely passive will just be as dull of a mechanic as any other passive in this game. What spirits need is a purpose. Right now they function as banners with some extra flavor but with huge drawbacks. They need to be unique. They need to have an impact that goes beyond what we are currently getting, so that they become desirable in any situation…

What you described is still passive play.

They will always be passive, unless they can move and NOT have a passive effect.

There is nothing wrong with passive buffs, since most traits are passive too. The placement of easily killed and limited range spirits is not passive. In order to use them efficiently, you need to position correctly. Correctly placing a spirit that gives a large buff to your team at the right moment is hardly passive. Forcing the enemy thief to have to re-position/over-extend in order to take out your spirit because it is providing a large disadvantage to his team is hardly passive play.

They should function the same as they did in GW1, ie totally passive, except not affect the opposite team, to do this, they need to be OP by design as they are easily killed. The current effects are fine but need to be buffed as do the boons if they want spirits to see play.

Golden opportunity to get Ranger back into the Meta with team buffing and strategic positioning plays.

Now here are some thoughts how I would design spirits. This idea is ofcourse far from being balanced, but you should get the idea:

General Design:

• Spirits build up stacks, one each 5 secs, up to 25 stacks
• When channeled, the Ranger and up to 4 allies in a certain range around the pet get their weapons infused by the spirit. All the stacks the spirit has stored will be transfered onto the Ranger and his allies.
• When the spirit gets deactivated, the remaining charges will be transfered back onto the spirit.
• The pet acts as vessel for the spirit. Kill the pet -> stop the spirit effects.
• The time it takes to build up stacks is doubled when the pet is dead.
• Spirits have no casting time, so you are able to swap the effects on the fly, even while fighting
• There can only one spirit infusion be active at a time
• The active of a spirit consumes all its stacks. The active is time based, while the passive triggers on hit. The time the active lasts is also determined by how many stacks got consumed.
• The active only applies to the Ranger.
• When the pet is dead, the pet can be healed by 4% of its maximum health through consuming stacks of a spirit (use up all your stacks on one spirit to resurrect your pet)
• The only thing I haven’t made up my mind about yet is how to deactivate a spirit (using the spirit once will activate its passive, clicking it again will activate the active)

Let’s talk specifics now.

Frost Spirit:

• Passive: Basically the same, just with less RNG. If activated, all attacks will consume one stack and deal 7% more (power) damage.
• Active: The attacks of all allies who had their weapons infused will apply chill. Chilled targets will suffer (0,5%*stacks consumed) more damage.

Stone Spirit:

• Passive: The Ranger and up to 4 allies in range of the pet will gain a unique buff that reduces all incoming damage by 10%. Each hit suffered consumes one stack.
• Active: The attacks of all allies who have been infused will immobilize enemies. Allies are healed by (0.5%*stack consumed) for the damage dealt against immobilized targets,

Storm Spirit:

• Passive: Each hit gives you an unique, short lasting movement boost and a bigger attack range, while consuming one stack.
• Active: The next attacks will apply quickness and daze the target for (0.1*stack consumed) seconds. Each target can only be dazed once.

Sun Spirit:

• Passive: Each stack applies short lasting burning.
• Active: Each attack while under the active effect applies blind. While under the effect of blind, enemies suffer (0.5%*stacks consumed) more condition damage.

Water Spirit:
If not good enough, or too OP, lower the effectiveness for allies by 50%. It is supposed to be a selfheal first and foremost after all.

• Passive: Each stack heals the player (and applies regeneration).
• Active: For the duration of the active, all (condition) damage will heal the player for (2%*stacks consumed) for its damage.

Elite Spirit

• Passive: Each attack, the player will be cured of one condition and one stack is consumed. Additionally, each attack will increase the stacks of all other spirits by 1.
• Active: Boosts the reviving speed of the player by (10%* stack consumed).
  The player also gains (0.5*stack consumed) resistance.

Now, this idea sounds not much more of an active playstyle than the other suggestions, but I do hope that the ability to swap instantly between spirit infusions and the decision of using the active or not will create more active play for the spirits. It definitely can’t be worse than the current situation.

starlinvf.1358:

Heres some food for thought that can eventually be worked into Druid. Why not make the spirits toggled, and modify the summoning mechanic so they become better as field effects.

Right now they fail because their passive benefits are generally weak, and they can be neutralized with even minor collateral damage.

Instead, why not have them Summon with initial major buff (in a visual burst of primal energy) and then emits its passive buff (most of which needs retuning anyway). As a base line feature, each spirit triggers a major effect on dismissal (or death if still kept), which gives support to allies and hinders enemies on death. Intentional dismissal reduces the cool down timers.

Without knowing much about the Druid, I can’t say how well exactly it will mesh. But this ability to call in a major initial group buff, a minor, but desirable passive buff, and a 3rd effect (boons if anything) with significant enemy risk, encourages you to drop and recover them as you move around at the beginning or near the end of fights.

This moves their entire strategy around when to use and dismiss them for maximum effect (which is a staple concept on every other class), with the passive benefits aimed at increasing pressure in the area.

Some examples.

Edge of Extinction:
Initial effect: Enemies with less then 90% health take Damage (1000u)
Passive: (Debuff 3s) Enemies in range (1000u) take damage if below 50% health every 3 seconds. Enemies lose health faster when downed.
Dismissal: Deal large damage to all enemies below 50% health (600u) (functions as AOE attack)

Favorable Winds:
Initial: Summons Swirling Winds (3 seconds)
Passive: All friendly projectiles deal 2% more damage, and have +40% to projectile finisher chance. (900u)
Dismissal: Grants 12 seconds of swiftness to all allies (900u), knocks back enemies (300u?), and leaves a swirling winds effects (3 sec) that reflects projectiles.

Predatory Season:
Initial: Enemies are hexed with “The Hunted” (1200u) and Allies gain Hunter’s Instict (1200u) for 8 seconds. Hunter’s Instinct has a 10% chance on hit to steal life from foes marked with “The Hunted”.
Passive: Enemies in range of spirit when “The Hunted” expires is crippled for 2 seconds. Allies in range of spirit when Hunter’s Instinct expires gain swiftness when it expires.
Dismissal: (Automatic after 8.5 seconds) Hunter’s Reward: Heals for (0.7)

Toxicity:
Initial: Toxicity- Allies gain 150 Condition damage (6 seconds)
Passive: Enemies take damage (xx) damage when conditions expire (does not affect conditions that were removed by skills or effects)
Dismissal: Pestilence- 1200u Enemies under the effects of poison or bleed spread them to nearby enemies. (Bleed 5 sec, Poison 6 sec)

Tranquility (elite):
Initial: Removes 1 boon from enemies (?u), Allies gain Resilience (2sec)
Passive: When boons expire on allies while in range of spirit they are healed for ()
Dismissal: Nature’s Renewal. Removes 2 conditions from all allies, removes 2 boons from enemies.

Elite: Conflagration
Initial effect: Generates Fire field for 6 seconds (320). Allies in 600u gain burning (3 sec) on their next attack.
Passive: Burning damage increased 5% within 1500u
Dismissal: Deals Damage (600u), leaves fire field for 3 seconds (320u) and applies 2 stack of might for 10 seconds to allies.

There is an example of making spirits unique. I don’t think making them simply unkillable and further range is going to really help spirit be better in a group setting. The GM trait is near useless and the interval boon/condition application just makes it irrelevant in a group that runs different builds. Increasing the durations or removing/reducing the ICD would only upset balance if you could give a group near perma protection or burning on hit, spirits need to become something unique like in GW1.

idontnoso.9850:

Why can’t spirits be like banners?

Why? Cus rangers, that’s why. What did you expect…

I think they’re supposed to double as a projectile block.

I wouldn’t mind them becoming invulnerable and not block projectiles.

idontnoso.9850:

Q: Why can’t spirits be like banners?

A: Because they’re too heavy to carry around.