Guild Wars 2

I have done a decent number of dungeon runs (up to 500). The players who state that rangers suck in dungeons are plain stupid. All classes have ups and downs. Besides COF P1 Speed farmers (that only accept mesmer+warrior) I don’t see why a Ranger shouldn’t be welcome.

However there is the other category of rangers, one of my friends fall in it. He is so lazy that he chose this class thinking he could coward out of fights and seeking comfort in ranged attacks. Basically he runs only passives and wants as little interaction as possible. But GW2 won’t let him for he is the most punished of all. And the funny thing is, he complains all the time that monsters won’t leave him alone. I keep telling him that rangers has various skills, traps, etc and are very fun to use. But he is a closed door. And he is not the only one.

I remember once doing COF P2 with a party that consisted in 3 rangers. We failed to defend Magg from the Assassins like 10 times. Then I wanted to follow their damage. It took one OVER 10 SECONDS to kill a single Flame Legion NPC. Oh CMON !!! They spawn like 5 every 2 seconds. Needless to say we had to quit. I made the same run with beginner warriors and did it in one try. A bad Warrior player is a better addition to the team than a bad ranger player. The heavy armor, and more native damage makes them right!

TL;DR version: Rangers need their DPS buffed..
yet another buff-my-ranger thread (although you’re not playing ranger yourself)

All you have to do is cripple the assassin and sick the drake on it. How could they possibly mess that up? Amazing.

I quote myself from another thread I was in

Well you know, Range is in the ranger’s name, so why use anything other than a bow? like that’s what real rangers are all about right? :P.

This class really gets a bad rep based mainly on the type of players that plays it, people come into this class expect a master of range in a game where melee is boss.
They sit in the back and fire away while their pet or an ally tanks the mob for them, and open world doesn’t forces them to think other wise.

My friend who has been playing the game just as long as I have is this type of person for the ranger. All he wants is to take a bow. And sit in the back, he runs up to drop a healing spring, he does res, know how to dodge and all that stuff, but that’s all he does for the ranger.

He made almost every other class, and he plays them really good, but with the ranger it just seems he chooses to play with one eye closed. And I know he is not the only one, which is really sad, because ranger can be really good, but people don’t play it to the fullest and gets viewed in a negative light because of it.

Even now that’s how he think, regearing his ranger for magic find to farm southsun(to get some use out of it), but brings all bows, complains with the lack of aoe. I keep telling him, "pick up a great sword/sword anything and tank face. -_-

It a real shame.

It’s basically because of three issues:
1. Most Ranger players who plays PvE, has gotten into the habit of relying on their pets to tank for them, too much. Meaning they don’t consider their positioning in a fight, they don’t know how to avoid mobs, they spend all their endurance on dodging the wrong attacks, and they aren’t aware of what’s going on around them. This means their pets die very fast, and they don’t help allies when they need to.
2. Burst builds are very popular, but that’s one of the builds the Ranger can’t do very well. Bunker and condition damage builds, is what the Ranger excels at.
3. Although the pet is great to have, for extra reviving or short termed tanking, the Ranger is otherwise very limited when it comes to support. Rangers have next to no way of sharing boons, and an Elementalist, Guardian, or Engineer can do a far better job when it comes to healing.

The first point obviously can’t be fixed, as this is more about player experience. But if ArenaNet would increase the damage of main-hand axe, and increase the attack rate of longbow and greatsword, then burst builds would be easier to play with the Ranger. And if the Rangers’ shouts also affected allies, if spirits didn’t die so easily, and Rangers didn’t only share boons with their pets, then support would be a viable build option as well.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure rampagers armor with sword/torch and axe/axe is highest DPS. Going 30/30/x/x/x without any healing power means you stand at range not buffing at all while your drake gets smashed. The strongest ranger builds have points in BM and healing for the pet in trinkets or armor.

Short answer: you’re not using the right setup and strategy for the task ahead.
Explanation:
- Acceptable: inexperienced
- Unnacceptable: thoughtless/rushing/lazy/longbowforlife!

Kasama.8941:

It’s basically because of three issues:

3. Although the pet is great to have, for extra reviving or short termed tanking, the Ranger is otherwise very limited when it comes to support. Rangers have next to no way of sharing boons, and an Elementalist, Guardian, or Engineer can do a far better job when it comes to healing.

First of all this comment is a bit outside this thread’s purpose but it brings up a good point: This right here, it would be awesome if rangers could get more options to share boons. I heard trait line changes are coming with the hopeful possibility of improvement and even developing new builds. I bet that certain bunker/healing rangers would love this. If Nature magic made spirits more survivable and allowed the sharing of boons, then voila! Hello BM/spirit bunker ranger. Now that’s something you can share with all your close minded ranger friends. FYI this weekend I showed one of them what I can do in pvp, took him for a 1 vs 1 duel, then told him my build and he loved it so much that he beat me right back using it (BM/Condition). Now imagine how much those lazy rangers would enjoy a build that allows them to really sit back and give boons to everyone around them… somehow they’re not seen as lazy but they’re seen as supportive.

Aragon, son of Arathorn (Lord of the Rings fame) is/was a ranger. He primarily fought using the sword Aduril.

^^ for those that think rangers are only allowed to use bows.

I keep hearing about this bad “rep” but I have never had an issue getting into groups, or leading a group in a dungeon. I even have received numerous compliments in dungeons.

Maybe it’s the GW1 title, I’m not sure but I think it’s all in how you playin the environment. Maybe majority of rangers are using LB and SB and standing in one area? This is a game all about moving around, and mechanics.

I normally run a solid SB, LB, trap build and never have much issue.

Unless majority of people are just extremely nice and don’t say anything, but knowing how people are, I doubt it.

Why is ranger performance diminished in dungeons? Well, player experience aside, lets look at the mechanics of the situation. Every dungeon boss, yes, EVERY boss uses AoE attacks. Pets have no AoE dodge or damage mitigation of any kind, nor receives any stat bonuses from their Ranger owners (gear does not affect pets). So if the Ranger is caught unawares, the pet can die quickly. That instantly reduces the Ranger’s dps by 33-40% right there. ArenaNet has designed the Ranger/Pet combo to provide equal dps to other classes. Remove the pet, and the Ranger’s damage output drops considerably.

Now let’s suppose the Ranger is not caught unawares. Let’s imagine the party encounters a boss and they start the fight. The ranger sends in the pet to run up to boss and starts firing a bow. The pet is running (no dps is being done by the pet yet) so the Ranger is only putting out 2/3rds his/her dps. The fight continues. The pet gets in trouble, so the Ranger recalls the pet. Now the pet is running away from the boss (no dps is being done by the pet now). Lets say the Ranger swaps pets and sends in a new pet (no dps is being done by the pet until it reaches the target). The point of the example here is that pets hinder Ranger damage output when they are swapped or running to/from the target. With so many damage points invested in pets (by ArenaNet), the Ranger is actually handicapped whenever the pet is not attacking (especially when dead).

As a result, Rangers get a bad reputation in dungeons. It could be the player’s fault, but more likely, its a game design flaw as well. In the open world, if a fight takes a few seconds longer because the pet is running (or dies) its inconvenient. In a dungeon against bosses and encounters designed for a whole party putting out X amount of dps, however, its unforgiving.

Kasama.8941:

<snip>

This means their pets die very fast, and they don’t help allies when they need to.
<snip>

When I quit back in mid December, it still a bad problem with pet reaction time. I always had a problem with pets being mid-attack and I would command it to return to me but it would take several seconds to respond (if it did) then slowly run back to me. Most of the time it was too late and some attack killed it. This was mainly to do game design. Once any animation starts, it can’t be stopped till it completes. Other games allowed you to do something mid-animation which would then cancel the rest of the ability so you can move.

Ranger skill #1 for sword would almost lock you in place. Has then been addresses?

I’m considering coming back and giving the game another try.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

Why is ranger performance diminished in dungeons? Well, player experience aside, lets look at the mechanics of the situation. Every dungeon boss, yes, EVERY boss uses AoE attacks. Pets have no AoE dodge or damage mitigation of any kind, nor receives any stat bonuses from their Ranger owners (gear does not affect pets). So if the Ranger is caught unawares, the pet can die quickly. That instantly reduces the Ranger’s dps by 33-40% right there. ArenaNet has designed the Ranger/Pet combo to provide equal dps to other classes. Remove the pet, and the Ranger’s damage output drops considerably.

Now let’s suppose the Ranger is not caught unawares. Let’s imagine the party encounters a boss and they start the fight. The ranger sends in the pet to run up to boss and starts firing a bow. The pet is running (no dps is being done by the pet yet) so the Ranger is only putting out 2/3rds his/her dps. The fight continues. The pet gets in trouble, so the Ranger recalls the pet. Now the pet is running away from the boss (no dps is being done by the pet now). Lets say the Ranger swaps pets and sends in a new pet (no dps is being done by the pet until it reaches the target). The point of the example here is that pets hinder Ranger damage output when they are swapped or running to/from the target. With so many damage points invested in pets (by ArenaNet), the Ranger is actually handicapped whenever the pet is not attacking (especially when dead).

As a result, Rangers get a bad reputation in dungeons. It could be the player’s fault, but more likely, its a game design flaw as well. In the open world, if a fight takes a few seconds longer because the pet is running (or dies) its inconvenient. In a dungeon against bosses and encounters designed for a whole party putting out X amount of dps, however, its unforgiving.

^ This. A hundred times over, this.

Also, earlier someone actually kittened that people were using bows on their ranger. Sorry man, but the Guildwars2 webpage, the wiki and the character creation screen all describe the ranger as a “Master of ranged combat” which would explain where most people get the idea that playing at range should be viable.

Sadly, Anet decided that the game should be melee wars. This in itself is a flaw, but until the population at large understands this, instead of just the few thousand of us on the forums, people are still going to play from range.

The fix for this is putting the damage back into the ranger, and then fixing the ranged weapons (primarily longbow and ele staff) so that damage from range is equal to damage from melee.

Also, for the people who are going to whine about “risk vs. reward”; A low armour, low HP class is already playing from a position of risk. The gap closers available to every class (except for necro) mean that someone playing at range will never stay at range the whole fight. Being at range is their reward, being squishy is their risk. Being at range is your risk, being able to close any gap in 2 seconds is your reward.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

Why is ranger performance diminished in dungeons? Well, player experience aside, lets look at the mechanics of the situation. Every dungeon boss, yes, EVERY boss uses AoE attacks. Pets have no AoE dodge or damage mitigation of any kind, nor receives any stat bonuses from their Ranger owners (gear does not affect pets). So if the Ranger is caught unawares, the pet can die quickly. That instantly reduces the Ranger’s dps by 33-40% right there. ArenaNet has designed the Ranger/Pet combo to provide equal dps to other classes. Remove the pet, and the Ranger’s damage output drops considerably.

Now let’s suppose the Ranger is not caught unawares. Let’s imagine the party encounters a boss and they start the fight. The ranger sends in the pet to run up to boss and starts firing a bow. The pet is running (no dps is being done by the pet yet) so the Ranger is only putting out 2/3rds his/her dps. The fight continues. The pet gets in trouble, so the Ranger recalls the pet. Now the pet is running away from the boss (no dps is being done by the pet now). Lets say the Ranger swaps pets and sends in a new pet (no dps is being done by the pet until it reaches the target). The point of the example here is that pets hinder Ranger damage output when they are swapped or running to/from the target. With so many damage points invested in pets (by ArenaNet), the Ranger is actually handicapped whenever the pet is not attacking (especially when dead).

As a result, Rangers get a bad reputation in dungeons. It could be the player’s fault, but more likely, its a game design flaw as well. In the open world, if a fight takes a few seconds longer because the pet is running (or dies) its inconvenient. In a dungeon against bosses and encounters designed for a whole party putting out X amount of dps, however, its unforgiving.

Yes bosses have aoe that doesn’t mean your pet has to die. I have no points in beastmaster and it very rare that my pets are out of commision. Guard gives 10seconds of protection. Very few bosses kill pets with a single aoe if they have protection. With a 15 second recharge your pet is without it for 5 seconds not including the 2 seconds you can get from dodge if traited.

If you dont want to use guard fine, but dont kitten that your unable to keep your pets alive and are unwilling to keep you damage % up. Becuase you have chosen to use some other skill that cant compare to keeping your pet alive.

This is direct at you Taran Redleaf but all those rangers who dont even try to keep thier pets up or let them sit there like a dead arm.

It’s perception that keeps people from inviting Rangers.

Can Rangers succeed in Dungeons? Of course they can. I run a tanky BM build and control my pets and I do just fine in Dungeons. Of course, no PUG groups will ever know because they won’t invite me just because of my class. I run with my Guild all the time though and I do just fine.

Problem is, badly played Rangers are a detriment to a Dungeon Run and people have no way of knowing when they invite you if you’re a ‘good’ Ranger or a poor one. Warriors don’t have this problem, because even if you suck you just hit things until you die and then wait for someone to revive you. Our class takes more thought and therefore has more room for error.

Actually, you all are making my point for me. Let’s assume you are absolutely right – I’ll grant you the benefit of the doubt and say, yes, pets don’t have to die from boss AoE. Somehow, the boss’s AoE does not do 5k damage to one shot your pet.

But look at what you are saying and I hope you’ll see what I meant by my post above. The pet can survive with protection… I agree. The pet can survive with healing… again, I agree. The pet can survive by utility management… also true. But if you are stop what you are doing to protect the pet, you aren’t dpsing (even for a split second). If you stop what you are doing to heal the pet, you aren’t dpsing. If you stop what you are doing to micromanage the pet, you aren’t dpsing. All these factors, even for a tiny amount of time reduces the amount of damage you are doing.

So why would a warrior be selected over a Ranger? Higher armor (more protection built in) and no pet micromanagement. The warrior, specced completely for dps has higher protection than a Ranger specced completely for dps. That puts Rangers at a disadvantage.

What ArenaNet should do, and they probably won’t, is make Rangers superior in damage output to warriors precisely because they have to manage pets and have less protection to start with.

Can Rangers succeed in dungeons? Absolutely! But they should be compensated for the extra amount of work they have to do in managing two “players” at once (one with less control than the other). There ought to be a better payoff for the work and “risk” involved.

For most encounters no class is always dps’ing (there are exception like cof). There isnt the conventional trinity in Gw2. However people still have that mentality. People try to make the Guardian and the Ele the healer class. No class can heal a party alone. As far as dps warriors go they are usually the first to fall. Guardians damage is meh.

Some people have stop playing cuz they feel like they dont have a specific role in a group.

The no trinity thing isnt new. Old school games like Ultima Online had no trinity. It took everyone to kill things like the Darkfather. Yes Tames and dex monekys had a big role but they had to keep themselves alive and the man or beast next to them.

Gw2 is the same. My fernshound regen isnt alot but every bit helps. The Healing spring isnt alot but the condtion removal helps. It’s all the little parts that make groups works not just the dps. I would run with any Dungeon with 5 Ranger than 5 of any class. We may not be the best in any one area but we can help in all.

Why do Rangers suck in dungeons?

1) Low DPS
2) Pets suck

/thread

I think you’re oversimplifying things, G. By the way, agility training is nice to call pet back faster.

Perhaps. I have been known to do that. Problem for me is I want to play a ranged DPS ranger, and that’s just not an option. I usually run a SB/Sword+Horn power/prescision/toughness build (sometimes SB/LB depending on the event) as I do not like the GS or axe. I also run a cat and drake or cat and hyena. Usually 30/30/5/5/0 is what I run. Been trying different traits and whatnot lately, but because of my play style I keep going back to 30/30/X/X/X or 20/30/10/10/0.

Problem is this, most people level their ranger from 1-80 with a bow. In doing so, they haven’t learn the basics of dodging/evading and miss the actual versatility of the class.

Example, craft level a char, any profession from 1-80. Now go play the game once you are 80, you wont do well since you have no experience with the class, dont know which skills/utilities are useful. I’ve done this several times and takes a bit of time to learn and get accustom to playing a new class. I remember always wiping with my 80 guardian in a starter zone with Knight armor (4+ enemies) because I just didnt know how to play it. Now I can head to endgame zones and survive 8+ mobs without my HP going past 75% down. It’s just a learn to play the class to full potential and willing to experiment. If unable to experiment, most will stick to bows and stay away, giving off that stigma of “Rangers suck” in PvE.

I’m always surprised not to see more Rangers use drakes. The drakes have by far the most powerful F2 skills, they deal really good sustained damage, they deal great AoE damage, and they have fairly good survivability. River Drake and March Drake seems to be the best, as they can hit up to five foes at a time, with their F2 skills. Why a lot of Rangers choose to run felines or canines, I can never understand. They die so fast, they hardly get to dealt any damage.

Try the drakes the next time you’re in a dungeon. And don’t forget to use those F2 skills (just let them auto-attack first, or they will usually mess up the targeting).

In general, Kasama, you’re correct about drakes. I should point out that other pets have their place. For example, dogs work well against nightmare hounds in TA because there’s usually too many dogs to keep up endurance to dodge knockdowns so CC’ing them first really helps. Red moa gives 15s of fury and a melee range AoE heal that’s roughly 3,000 health that’s not bad, really. For high single target dps (simin arah p4) you can’t reall beat a cat with quickening zephyr. But I agree, cats are tough to deal with when you have little healing power.

Chopps.5047:

In general, Kasama, you’re correct about drakes. I should point out that other pets have their place. For example, dogs work well against nightmare hounds in TA because there’s usually too many dogs to keep up endurance to dodge knockdowns so CC’ing them first really helps. Red moa gives 15s of fury and a melee range AoE heal that’s roughly 3,000 health that’s not bad, really. For high single target dps (simin arah p4) you can’t reall beat a cat with quickening zephyr. But I agree, cats are tough to deal with when you have little healing power.

I personally disagree. The only pets I’ve found useful in dungeons, are those that can survive for a long time. Bears are great for short term tanking or reviving with “Search and Rescue”, spiders are great for ranged damage and when AoE is a problem since they don’t move as much, and drakes are great for burst damage and AoE damage. That’s all I ever use in dungeons.

Against nightmare hounds, the River Drake is arguably more useful, as it will kill the dogs faster, thanks to Lighting Breath. All you have to do, is use Entangle or Frost Trap to lock them down, and then use your AoE attacks from off-hand axe and longbow, together with Lighting Breath. The Red Moa will probably get to heal you once before it’s dead. Fury you can already get from warhorn, and healing you can do with Healing Spring+combo finishers. If defense is needed, I’d much rather use a bear for short term tanking, or for using “Search and Rescue” with. For high damage, I find the drakes are much better in dungeons. Their F2 skills deals the highest damage of all the pets, and they can survive for longer, which means more total damage output, compared to a feline that normally only lives for half as long. Many players also don’t know that the drakes have the third highest auto-attack damage, after felines and birds.

Kasama.8941:

I’m always surprised not to see more Rangers use drakes. The drakes have by far the most powerful F2 skills, they deal really good sustained damage, they deal great AoE damage, and they have fairly good survivability. River Drake and March Drake seems to be the best, as they can hit up to five foes at a time, with their F2 skills. Why a lot of Rangers choose to run felines or canines, I can never understand. They die so fast, they hardly get to dealt any damage.

Try the drakes the next time you’re in a dungeon. And don’t forget to use those F2 skills (just let them auto-attack first, or they will usually mess up the targeting).

Well, as a non-BM build, I keep my pets on passive at all times in dungeons and just use the F2 for party support(regen from fernhound, and fury from moa). I think you see canines so much because they are so useful in pvp and that’s what they are used to, the kd’s and cripples are priceless. If it didn’t cost money to retrait/respec gear it would be easy to switch out builds. But it isn’t. It’s a shame that W3, PvP, and Dungeons really call for different builds and that those builds cost money every time you want to change it.

Obsidian, I’ve heard that ANet has been trying to implement the same sort of system PvP has for traits for WvW and PvE dungeons. In other words, you make a setup for those modes with the traits, and the game will remember it. I really hope they’re able to make that work, because I would LOVE to be able to do different playstyles without having to pay money all the time.

Reviewing the threads above, its interesting to read how the comments seems to consistently say, “Rangers rely on bows too much and don’t melee enough.” At the beginning of GW2, as professions were being introduced, Colin specifically described Rangers a “Masters of the Bow”. Yet, the consensus seems to be “Rangers, don’t rely on your bows.” That sounds like a design flaw to me – Rangers are not designed as “Masters of the Bow” like they were supposed to be.

I’ve only been kicked out of a pug twice and the reason was something like “sorry but having a second ranger might be too tough at fotm lvl XX” or something like that. Both times I was kicked before actually starting the instance.

I guess ppl feel that our regular dps is inferior to that of other classes and our condition damage is kinda pointless if there’s a second ranger or a necro in the group (makes sense since burning/poison is always up even with a single ranger and there are plenty of classes that apply good bleeding that also caps anyway). Plus utility-wise we can’t really compare to guardian/mesmer and the number of party spots is after all limited.

Also I have to say, while I like having the option of using melee weaps and I get the linguistic origin of the term ranger, upon choosing the class I did not expect to end up using sword/greatsword 70% of the time and 30% shortbow. I guess I’m just stuck on what the ranger in GW1 was all about (full ranged) or the impression I got from all the GW2 illustrations of the class that always clearly show him as an archetypical fantasy ranger carrying a bow with a pet on the side.

They shouldn’t have a game that treats ranged weapons like a second class DPS type. There are plenty of dungeon mechanics which make ranged weapons more dangerous (look at the nightmare vines in TA). For some reason the devs decided to make ranged weapons almost obsolete by intentionally having them do less damage than a melee weapon even when used by an equally (or superior) skilled player. Ranged weapons should be on par with melee weapons when it comes to DPS. Currently that’s not the case.

Ranger troubles in dungeons usually come down to a crappy pet mechanic (they are still too fragile, especially against certain opponents), many rangers will use bows despite the developers intentionally making them an inferior weapon and almost no options for party support and the poorly conceived defiant mechanic makes one of the greatest strengths of the ranger (control and disruption) almost completely obsolete.

Compare that to might stacking, perma fury, banners, loads of reflections, superior pulling skills, no reliance on a broken class mechanic and superior damage. I hear a lot about bad rangers, what exactly is it the good rangers are doing? The way the game is designed, the in-demand tools for dungeons are so heavily concentrated in the trinity that even a poorly played mesmer, guardian or warrior will accidentally reflect something important, provide numerous damage boosts and just generally do more damage. Obtaining even inferior versions of these powerful mechanics that the trinity incidentally accesses as part of their class usually involves heavy investment from the ranger (compare “For Great Justice!” – a utility skill for might and fury stacking, then consider rangers need to bring a moa or a warhorn which means they can’t bring a DPS pet and are forced into a one handed weapon, compare the AoE pull from Temporal Curtain to the single target Point Blank Shot which requires positioning to determine the final location). I don’t think ranger players suck, I think they are working with less to begin with.

Daddy gave the trinity shinier toys to play with.

Reason why rangers suck in dungeons:

- low DPS
- no support
- stupid pet
- good players who are aware of this reroll to other professions

I use double longbows and a brown bear it’s the best

@Manekk

/double facepalm – because one facepalm just isn’t enough to respond to that statement

Run a BM build.
armour: Apothecary Helm/Legs + Shaman Shoulder/Chest/Foot/Pauldrons
My pet[jaguar] deal at most close to 4k damage
I deal about 600 damage XD with greatsword/sword + torch

To add on i can kill a lvl 80 ele guy in wvw with my pet withouht me dealing damage ^^

Awesomeeee…. but kitten the will nerf the pet damage so this build may not be so useful anymore heck i think they’re not gonna increase ranger’s damage. Its been how many months since this game came out, i don’t have faith that Anet would nerf ranger in a good way… This class is only good if u follow BM build[my opinion] so since they’re nerfing the pet damage this class will feel useless again. Really disappointed ._.

Dub.1273:

Reason why rangers suck in dungeons:

- low DPS
- no support
- stupid pet
- good players who are aware of this reroll to other professions

I highly disagree, as a ranger I am one of the primary DPS and support contributors to dungeon runs. It has got to do with using the class the way it’s meant to be used. Rangers who fall under the above category are clearly staining the ranger name by not knowing how to do a good job. Rolling to another profession is a suggestion only a coward can make, because there are plenty of rangers out there who know how to support, survive, use the right pets with proper micromanagement, and output good DPS via raw power or condition damage. Sadly there are not enough of us to make a difference. As long as they player sucks, the profession has little to nothing to do with it.

[Edit: typos… it happens].

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.

The class was sold as being an “unparalleled archer” that is “capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows”. That is why people want to play them as archers and not melee. Whether reality matches expectations or not, this is what people expect.

I use a ranger as my main and I use axe/axe (for ranged attacks and hitting multiple targets) and greatsword (for DPS and fast travel) and trait accordingly. I am not a superb player or anything, but I have no problems surviving in WvW, and I’ve done a few dungeons and had no problems with survivability or DPS.

I don’t think rangers are a bad class at all, I think you just have to find what pets, weapons and traits that fit your playing style and go from there. Expecting mobility like a thief or power like a warrior and being disappointed when a ranger isn’t quite like that means you would probably have more fun playing as a thief or warrior.

Btw, just wanna correct a common misconception: “Ranger” is NOT about “weapon range”. A ranger (in real life) is a fighter skilled at guerilla warfare. Rangers are supposed to be great at surprise attacks, cutting off enemy supply lines and so on. So I would think Anet had something along those lines in mind when designing the ranger class’s abilities.

Edit: Although, admittedly, anet’s description would make you think the ranger would be pretty powerful with the bow. Yeah that ain’t entirely how it turned out.

In real life, Rangers use rifles. So that’s still ranged! “Ranger” IS about “range”. In real life, Rangers are NOT guerrilla warfare specialists (that’s Special Forces/Green Berets). Rangers are long range reconnaissance (penetrating enemy lines and sneaking back with information). They are a lethal, agile, and flexible force. They are capable of conducting many complex, joint special operations missions. They are the military’s premier direct-action raid force. So if you want to talk about real life Rangers, the came comes up quite short in comparison. But they are, and always have been, ranged fighters.

Now, ArenaNet made the Ranger not “just” about range, but it still includes “range” as a primary attribute. Yes, players can play a ranger with a melee approach to combat. And I’m sure the flexibility of combat options is great. But you can never, ever take the “range” out of Ranger and still have a “Ranger”.

awge.3852:

Dub.1273:

Reason why rangers suck in dungeons:

- low DPS
- no support
- stupid pet
- good players who are aware of this reroll to other professions

I highly disagree, as a ranger I am one of the primary DPS and support contributors to dungeon runs. It has got to do with using the class the way it’s meant to be used. Rangers who fall under the above category are clearly staining the ranger name by not knowing how to do a good job. Rolling to another profession is a suggestion only a coward can make, because there are plenty of rangers out there who know how to support, survive, use the right pets with proper micromanagement, and output good DPS via raw power or condition damage. Sadly there are not enough of us to make a difference. As long as they player sucks, the profession has little to nothing to do with it.

[Edit: typos… it happens].

There’s plenty people out there that do play rangers well, I think he’s talking about the class is just lacking in these areas overall. You’re lying to yourself if you can’t see that the Ranger lacks in dungeon/grouped PvE, or you need to play another class to see how it’s different. It’s certainly true that some people are making the most of what little the Ranger has, and others are not.

That being said, I think the devs might be looking into the whole pet/dmg situation with the future change to pet dmg. Hopefully they’ve realized that in dungeons you just can’t always keep your pet alive, and that since Ranger’s DPS is tied so closely to the pet that even if you are keeping it alive, then you aren’t getting the full DPS out of your character.

In addition to that, Rangers just have very little to offer the group in terms of support and utility. Outside of Healing Spring(condi removal, water field), Whirling Axes(reflection), and the occasional snare trap to run past trash mobs, there isn’t a whole lot of benefits that Ranger can provide to the group. I just thought of those off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s going to be people on here telling me how much more there is and L2P, but compare it to what other classes have to offer and think about it. My Guardian can just spam #1 on any weapon and provide more support to the group.

I really enjoy playing my Ranger and how versatile it is, I just wish we had more options in regards to our pet and support/utility.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

In real life, Rangers are NOT guerrilla warfare specialists (that’s Special Forces/Green Berets). Rangers are long range reconnaissance (penetrating enemy lines and sneaking back with information). They are a lethal, agile, and flexible force. They are capable of conducting many complex, joint special operations missions. They are the military’s premier direct-action raid force.

Special Forces are not the only units capable of or trained in unconventional warfare tactics, you do realize that, right? Check what you wrote right there ^. You are describing unconventional warfare, which is exactly what guerrilla warfare is. Do some more research, rangers are NOT all about reconnaissance, they are an elite infantry unit. They are fighters using guerrilla tactics.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

So if you want to talk about real life Rangers, the came comes up quite short in comparison. But they are, and always have been, ranged fighters.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

In real life, Rangers use rifles. So that’s still ranged! “Ranger” IS about “range”.

Um, you know anyone with a gun is a ranged fighter, right? By your logic you could just replace the word soldier with ranger. You’re hung up on the word “range” as in how it relates to the weapon, but based on the actual definition (please look it up), I’m guessing the name ranger came from range as in “range of territory covered”.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

But you can never, ever take the “range” out of Ranger and still have a “Ranger”.

And I see where you are coming from now. You misunderstood my reason for saying “Ranger” is not about “range” because I, admittedly, wasn’t clear. I meant the origin of the word ranger was not given to fighters because they only fight with ranged weapons (edited it to be more clear). My following comments about what rangers are IRL were a separate point, guessing as to why Anet didn’t make rangers more powerful with the bow.

i don’t know about you but i love rangers with pet revive on big fights, sooo good.

Rangers have a number of problems in dungeons that good rangers can overcome but poor rangers do not know exist.
(1) At long range the ranger is out of the melee group and not sharing boons/combos with the melee group. All the ranger utilities do not affect the melee group when the ranger is at longbow range.
(2) Traps and spirits might help a defend against enemies moving towards a ranger but they do not help a ranger move forwards. Rangers have no skills for moving forward to assault a group of enemies.
(3) Ranged defense is the best utility and rangers have the wrong sort of missile defense (offhand melee skill with short duration and long cooldown).
(4) Pets either die too often or are not contributing dps/utility, leaving the ranger underpowered. It’s hard to position and move pets with just two commands.

@CuteLilKittenHugz.2064
“Do some more research” – Research? Well, I guess those years serving in the Army must have been for nothing compared to your book knowledge. I guess the military doesn’t know what Rangers in real life are because I lifted the description from our website. But let’s not get distracted from the point of the OP’s post.

The original message was that the Ranger has low dps in dungeons using the example of three experienced bow-Rangers unable to accomplish what three beginner warriors could do. Could a Ranger play melee instead of bow? Yes. But what if you wanted to play an Archer – what profession do you pick? ArenaNet describes the “master of the bow” as the Ranger. But the Ranger’s “mastery of the bow” is not working.

The conclusion, therefore, is even experienced Rangers have problems with dps in dungeons. Therefore, the game mechanic in how the Ranger is designed and producing dps is problematic and needs improvement.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

@CuteLilKittenHugz.2064
“Do some more research” – Research? Well, I guess those years serving in the Army must have been for nothing compared to your book knowledge. I guess the military doesn’t know what Rangers in real life are because I lifted the description from our website. But let’s not get distracted from the point of the OP’s post.

There are multiple definitions, but the root of it all when it comes to the fantasy archetype is that it is more in line with the original definition as someone who protects a range of territory. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Ranger

Hell, the page for the D&D Class (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ranger+) which, let’s face it, all modern day RPGs can be traced back to D&D in some fashion, lists Aragorn as the main influence in the aesthetics of the class. You can even feel it a bit in GW2 with the inclusion of the Torch as a weapon for the ranger class (Ringwraiths at Weathertop, anyone?).

Furthermore, it’s the only definition that even makes sense, because if you’re taking the word “Ranger” as an indication of the range of the unit’s engagement… well… there’s melee range, there’s long range. What sort of range are we talking about? If the class were called “Long-Ranger”, you may have a case. But what do I know? I’m a guy over the internet.
——-
As far as OP’s topic, the main problem is that our DPS is split between ourselves and our pet. It’s simple as that. The common philosophy that “You do 0 DPS when dead” also applies to our pets, which the DPS pets tend to melt in dungeons, thereby making us half of a class. There are a few ways that could be fixed.

One would be to up survivibility on pets. With the incoming DPS nerf on them, that would make sense. They could make it to where pets only take like half AOE damage or something.

Another way, one I would prefer, would be to offer a petless spec that gives us the damage that our pet would be contributing. Yes, it would be nullifying our class gimmick, but they could retool it to work. One way, off the top of my head, would be to instead offer petless rangers what I would like to call Companion Abilities, that call in temporary companions that do things. These skills would essentially be similar to the 4 skill on Warhorn, where birds are called to attack an enemy. Perhaps they could retool the whole of one of the trait trees to do something like this. I’d go with beastmastery, because imo, the idea of having mastery over many kinds of beasts outweighs the idea of mastery over one at a time…

… or perhaps I just want to be this guy. http://d.ratingmovies.com/servlet/Main/CoverDisplay/Beastmaster__The_(1982).jpg?film_rn=4109

The Ranger/Archer/Hunter gets bad rep in just about everygame…I mean, look at WoW…

Taran Redleaf.7912:

@Manekk

/double facepalm – because one facepalm just isn’t enough to respond to that statement

You’re just jelaous of my powah!

Taran Redleaf.7912:

The ranger sends in the pet to run up to boss and starts firing a bow. The pet is running (no dps is being done by the pet yet) so the Ranger is only putting out 2/3rds his/her dps. The fight continues. The pet gets in trouble, so the Ranger recalls the pet. Now the pet is running away from the boss (no dps is being done by the pet now). Lets say the Ranger swaps pets and sends in a new pet (no dps is being done by the pet until it reaches the target). The point of the example here is that pets hinder Ranger damage output when they are swapped or running to/from the target. With so many damage points invested in pets (by ArenaNet), the Ranger is actually handicapped whenever the pet is not attacking (especially when dead).

And that’s why any Ranger worth their salt knows which pets to use according to the situation: Pets with High Vit running passive for “Protect Me” and rez purposes, Moas for their shriek and healing, Birds for Swiftness, Spiders for venom and bind, Dogs for knock backs, etc,etc. Not every one of us use a tanky Bear every time. I rarely ends a dungeon with the same set of pets I had at the beginning.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

In real life, Rangers use rifles. So that’s still ranged! “Ranger” IS about “range”. In real life, Rangers are NOT guerrilla warfare specialists (that’s Special Forces/Green Berets). Rangers are long range reconnaissance (penetrating enemy lines and sneaking back with information). They are a lethal, agile, and flexible force. They are capable of conducting many complex, joint special operations missions. They are the military’s premier direct-action raid force. So if you want to talk about real life Rangers, the came comes up quite short in comparison. But they are, and always have been, ranged fighters.

Now, ArenaNet made the Ranger not “just” about range, but it still includes “range” as a primary attribute. Yes, players can play a ranger with a melee approach to combat. And I’m sure the flexibility of combat options is great. But you can never, ever take the “range” out of Ranger and still have a “Ranger”.

Ranger as depicted in this game is derived from the Fantasy Genre of the ‘Ranger’ Class, not from the modern day Military usage of the word ‘Ranger.’ Rangers are named after the range as in ‘home on the Range,’ not Range as in ‘from a distance.’ While many famous Rangers are typically archers (Robin Hood,) one of the most famous of all Rangers was Aragorn from Lord of the Rings who is a melee fighter. Same can be said for Drizzt Do’urden from the Dungeons and Dragons books who fights with dual melee weapons. The term “Ranger” has nothing to do with the fighting style or weapon preference, it refers to warriors of the wild who live off the land.

Rangers are not required to use ranged weapons.

Ranger is an amazingly powerful class.

But hunter sucks.

Problem is too many people are playing hunters in this game. A class that doesn’t even exist in this MMO… but they’re playing it anyway.

If people would play rangers, they’d see the class is amazing.

One reason I don’t even carry a bow on my ranger. Don’t need no fool thinking I’m playing a hunter. :P

And pets… pets are insane and tough as nails. But hunter pets die super fast. Stop playing a hunter pet, play a ranger pet – and it’s an insane boost to DPS and utility: but it is NOT a tank. Hint: works better when you tank for your pet. You’ve got a dodge key, and maybe some toughness. Your pet probably has neither in much quantity.

Second hint: If you picked your pet based which one looked cool, you’re probably playing a hunter. If you picked a bear; you’re probably playing a hunter. Stop it; play a ranger: look at your build, and pick a pet to compliment that is NOT there to try and tank for you. There might be a use for a bear – but its probably not in a dungeon and certainly not for holding aggro.

Because this isn’t a hunter. Its a ranger.

I thought Anet said we can play how we want to play…? Meaning I can play as a “hunter” as you said if I want to, but it’s severely hampered if I do. Anet says one thing, but does another. I can’t play how I want to. I want to play a DPS centered ranger and I can’t. I can’t because Anet has deemed that ranged weapons will not DPS any where close melee weapons. So, since I want my pet to live long and apply DPS since my DPS sucks, I have to run a BM build of some kind. 30 pts have to go into the BM line. That sucks. I don’t want to run a BM build. I want to be able to do my DPS and use my pet (since I am forced to have it) for utility, i.e. jungle stalker might stacks and moa fury.

By the way, I know I’m not the only one that has noticed that melee pets do more DPS than ranged pets. If I run a ranged pet while I’m using ranged weapons, I’m doing the lowest DPS possible. That is a terrible position to be in for a class that is suppose to be the master of ranged weapons.

Total Bulls**t:

“Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.” – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

This is why I rolled a warrrior specifically to run dungeons. Warrior’s rifle is better than the Ranger’s longbow. I even like the longbow better on the Warrior.

You can play it. You can also run around in your underwear and a pink quaggan backpack in Orr shouting “WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS” while hitting mobs with a level 1 stick.

But you aren’t promised to be effective when you opt for foolish. :P

If you think that’s ArenaNet being two-faced, you’re in need a serious reality check on how the world works.

Some play choices will work, and some won’t – but you can still do them. Each class has optimal ways it will function, and ways at which it is less than ideal.