Guild Wars 2

Since the pet is such a large portion of our damage why are they not affected by our gear stats and consumables? No other class only get a 60% boost from stats and consumables yet a rangers pet does not benefit from gear and consumables. So if I decide to go high crit my pet should have the same chance to crit, if we boost toughness and vitality our pets should have higher survivability. If I have 20 agony resist my pet should have the same. As it stands right now we get diminished returns on the same investment. I hope Anet considers fixing this.

good point 123456

Another reason that forcing you to have your majority of dps done by a terrible ai is a bad idea

That is a brilliant point – never thought about that, heh.

I also never thought about that. Good point. Maybe there is a reason for that, or it’s a thing with how the pet scales in general, but I also would like to hear about that from Anet.

This is a very awesome point. Anet gameplay designers and devs, please consider this in a future implementation. Letting a percentage of our own stats as well as consumable buffs transfer to our pets will really improve ranger. Whilst you fix the AI of the pet, this transfer of stats/buffs will raise its survivability in fights that usually result in insta-death.

Is this something we know for sure or are we perhaps overlooking something or assuming this is the case. Has anyone done any testing> Is there something in our trait line that would make pets to op if this was not the case and it was implemented later.

well thought of point, shouldn’t be that hard to implement either since pets recieve buffs with ease.

although there is a trait that passes all buffs from player to pet, I think it is 15 or 20 into nature magic (evil line I know). Does this share food buffs? Does anyone know?

I don’t really know about pets receiving our stats as a core function of how they work.
On the one hand, it’s not like armor progression should only feel rewarding for Beastmaster specs (because clerics stuff makes an obvious impact on pet longevity, but all the other stats don’t make an obvious impact on the pet or the master). On the other hand, it’s nice that you can expect a baseline of functionality dependent on pet selection regardless of how bad your armor is or how ill fitting it is to the task you’re assigning your pet to.

I think maybe traits and utilities are a better place to look. For example; When you go Defensive, it’s you AND your pet, by virtue of most tanky options affecting the both of you as a baseline and there exists the Signet of the Wild utility option that directly translates your stats onto something related to the pet. But when you go Offensive, it’s mostly either you OR your pet, and there isn’t any utility or trait that acts as a direct transference of your stats. (except maybe companion’s might for precision, if people thought it was worth taking)

Personally, I think the Training trait choices could act as direct transfers and be more appealing than the flat increases they are now.

Agony does need to be addressed, and given the existence of an Agony Stat on the pet screen they surely have something in mind.

But, food! That’s a good idea.
You know, given how cheap food is, I kind of wonder if we couldn’t just feed them their own piece of food?

Tadayoshi.2815:

I also never thought about that. Good point. Maybe there is a reason for that, or it’s a thing with how the pet scales in general, but I also would like to hear about that from Anet.

Pets get zero benefit from your stat points. So while if you go to the pet memnu and mouseover their skills they will show damage improvement based on your power or condition damage the fact is the pet doesn’t act that way.

So unless you actually test your pets damage you may not even realize theya ren’t scaling as your interface indicates.

You increase a pets damage 3 ways. Speccing beastmastery and masters bond. This also benefits toughness and vitality(survivability).

Might boons -

Traits that benefit pet damage.

So Boons operate on pets and traits utilities and thats really it.

However you wouldn’t know that from the interface mouseovers.

Devs should read this.

ASAP.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I don’t really know about pets receiving our stats as a core function of how they work.
On the one hand, it’s not like armor progression should only feel rewarding for Beastmaster specs (because clerics stuff makes an obvious impact on pet longevity, but all the other stats don’t make an obvious impact on the pet or the master). On the other hand, it’s nice that you can expect a baseline of functionality dependent on pet selection regardless of how bad your armor is or how ill fitting it is to the task you’re assigning your pet to.

I think maybe traits and utilities are a better place to look. For example; When you go Defensive, it’s you AND your pet, by virtue of most tanky options affecting the both of you as a baseline and there exists the Signet of the Wild utility option that directly translates your stats onto something related to the pet. But when you go Offensive, it’s mostly either you OR your pet, and there isn’t any utility or trait that acts as a direct transference of your stats.

Agony does need to be addressed, and given the existence of an Agony Stat on the pet screen they surely have something in mind.

But, food! That’s a good idea.
You know, given how cheap food is, I kind of wonder if we couldn’t just feed them their own piece of food?

Does a mesmers F! bar benefit from THEIR stats? Yes it does.
Does a necro?
A Warrior?

However there is a key difference that does sort of justify this. Our pet has 100% uptime.

Tynee.9427:

No other class only get a 60% boost from stats and consumables

How did you calculate this?
1% crit seems to be 1% crit for my ranger. Same for HP and other stats.

Seems like a weak troll. My ranger benefits from all stats that i equip and all theorycraft shows the same.

Now show how you calculated and tested your findings before making statements.
You will probably get more serious answers and better discussions in return.

Apparently the logic jump – where, though stats affect your personal DPS fully, your pet (which is not affected by any of your stats) is 20-40% of your total DPS output – was just too much for you, Abaregi.

To answer the OP’s question: badly flawed game design.

Calavero.3420:

Apparently the logic jump – where, though stats affect your personal DPS fully, your pet (which is not affected by any of your stats) is 20-40% of your total DPS output – was just too much for you, Abaregi.

To answer the OP’s question: badly flawed game design.

The OP is complaining that his Ranger is only getting a hard 60% out of his stats.
That is false. There are no “logical jumps” to be made.

Ranger gets 100% and the rangers pet gets 0% excluding traits.
I don’t get what you are writing about, please expand your reasoning and the statistics you have found.

It seems you have found that my pet does 20-40% of my total damage, true or false what does that have to do with the OP’s statement?

Facepalm.

Read his post again. He, quite literally, word for word says, repeatedly, that the pet not gaining any of our stats is the deficit he’s complaining about.

The total pet damage/survivability contribution was probably balanced around the level 80 game at the time of release… which was fine, until they introduced scaling (such as the Agony system(. Once that happened, the lack of pet scaling became a real problem, which will continue to get worse as the end game scaling continues or more tiers of gear are added. It’s poor design, and lazy on the developers’ part.

To be honest, at this point I think YOU’RE the one who’s trolling. The OP has a very valid point – please stop trying to derail the thread.

The OP raises a very valid concern: diminished returns on the same investment. Hopefully we’ll get some clarification from one of the devs.

They didn’t learn from WoW in that pets need scaling to stay relevant with stat progression and new mechanics.

Pets need AoE damage avoidance/reduction, better movement speed for uptime, and they need to earn any stat boosts the master earns himself.

very good point OP

Have you tested this with Fortifying Bond?

I actually prefer it this way. I mainly do pvp, and I like to spec my ranger pretty defensively. The way things are now allows me to still inflict decent dmg via the pet. I can prevent pets from dies with pet swapping anyway. I see this as a major advantage as a ranger compared to other profs. I can basically go full bunker and still deal decent damage for example with a jaguar.

If pet attributes were linked, this would not be an option. Basically now you set your pets attributes by selecting f.e. a more defensive pet (like bear). You have more options since you can spec your pet and yourself differently. A definite bonus for us.

I can certainly see how speccing more toughness on your pet would benefit you in PvE though, with all the AoE/mob dmg, but i feel like this would not be the right way to go. If you wanted your pet to tank dmg for you, you’de have to spec yourself defensively and therefor speccing yourself damageless. Not the best solution in pve i think..

What troubles me more thou is the lack of condition dmg on pets. Since so many pets have f2 and other skills with bleeds (ie felines) but condition dmg for pets is always 0, so they end up doing 40 a tick… So basically your pets wont really help you if you wanted to go full cond dmg, since you yourself do like 110 per tick. No real way to spec condition dmg for pets as thing stand now.

So: Do NOT link or gear with the pet, but please make it possible for pets to do real condition dmg….

Abaregi.1659:

Tynee.9427:

No other class only get a 60% boost from stats and consumables

How did you calculate this?
1% crit seems to be 1% crit for my ranger. Same for HP and other stats.

Seems like a weak troll. My ranger benefits from all stats that i equip and all theorycraft shows the same.

Now show how you calculated and tested your findings before making statements.
You will probably get more serious answers and better discussions in return.

Tested on heavy armor golem in mists used juvenile wolf killed twice with gear and twice naked. All 4 times took 18 attacks from the pet to kill. The non crit attacks with gear ranged from 647 – 710 all non crit attacks without gear ranged from 648-714. There is no increase in damage when wearing gear. You say 1% is 1% but if a warrior increases a hit of 1000 by 10% he now has 100 extra damage. Lets say the ranger damage does 700 from ranger 300 from pet, his 10% boost will only give a net of 70 extra damage.

Now how much damage does your pet do really determines on which pet you use so I stayed with the wolf killed the heavy golem with short bow while stacking bleeds and kept pet on passive took 20,19,and 21 shots to kill so an average of 20. Now using SB and starting pet from range took 15, 14 , 14 shots to kill about an average of 14.33 shots. now attacking with pet at target before shooting took 13, 13, and 14 shots and average of 14.33 shots. Which makes the wolf account for 33.33% of my damage or my stats only affecting 66.66% of my damage out put give or take .01%.

Now as someone else mentioned there has been new gear introduced I personally have karka shell earring, ascended back piece, and two fractal rings with much better stats than my exotic gear prior to these upgrades. My pet receives 0 benefits from of these stats widening the advantage for non pet classes.

It would be helpful if speccing beastmastery also boosted secondary stats like condition not just primaries of pets.

Rei.4815:

I actually prefer it this way. I mainly do pvp, and I like to spec my ranger pretty defensively. The way things are now allows me to still inflict decent dmg via the pet. I can prevent pets from dies with pet swapping anyway. I see this as a major advantage as a ranger compared to other profs. I can basically go full bunker and still deal decent damage for example with a jaguar.

Exactly. Looks like most ppl haven’t realized it yet. What the op has suggested imo would not benefit the class at all.

Fjandi.2516:

Rei.4815:

I actually prefer it this way. I mainly do pvp, and I like to spec my ranger pretty defensively. The way things are now allows me to still inflict decent dmg via the pet. I can prevent pets from dies with pet swapping anyway. I see this as a major advantage as a ranger compared to other profs. I can basically go full bunker and still deal decent damage for example with a jaguar.

Exactly. Looks like most ppl haven’t realized it yet. What the op has suggested imo would not benefit the class at all.

You both make a fair and valid point. I too like to spec defensively and have my canines dish out the pain. A possible compromise is that a pet’s stats are determined by a modifier of its owner. For example, a bear, known for their vigor with over 4k vitality, could have 200% of the Ranger’s vitality. A class cannon Ranger with 15k health would result in a weaker, yet still hearty, 30k bear. If you speced for a tanking with 30k, health, your bear would be running around with 60k health.

Fjandi.2516:

Rei.4815:

I actually prefer it this way. I mainly do pvp, and I like to spec my ranger pretty defensively. The way things are now allows me to still inflict decent dmg via the pet. I can prevent pets from dies with pet swapping anyway. I see this as a major advantage as a ranger compared to other profs. I can basically go full bunker and still deal decent damage for example with a jaguar.

Exactly. Looks like most ppl haven’t realized it yet. What the op has suggested imo would not benefit the class at all.

Right now pets get no boost from player stats. If they all the sudden started getting boosts it would in no way make pets less effective. In your case, your DPS pets would deal the same damage, but become more resilient. I don’t believe the OP was talking about determining a pet’s base stats entirely off of the Ranger’s state – just giving them the bonuses those stats are supposed to give to the player.

Stats should certainly affect pets, or the stats should scale on the Ranger themselves to compensate.

Tynee.9427:

Abaregi.1659:

Tynee.9427:

No other class only get a 60% boost from stats and consumables

How did you calculate this?
1% crit seems to be 1% crit for my ranger. Same for HP and other stats.

Seems like a weak troll. My ranger benefits from all stats that i equip and all theorycraft shows the same.

Now show how you calculated and tested your findings before making statements.
You will probably get more serious answers and better discussions in return.

Tested on heavy armor golem in mists used juvenile wolf killed twice with gear and twice naked. All 4 times took 18 attacks from the pet to kill. The non crit attacks with gear ranged from 647 – 710 all non crit attacks without gear ranged from 648-714. There is no increase in damage when wearing gear. You say 1% is 1% but if a warrior increases a hit of 1000 by 10% he now has 100 extra damage. Lets say the ranger damage does 700 from ranger 300 from pet, his 10% boost will only give a net of 70 extra damage.

Now how much damage does your pet do really determines on which pet you use so I stayed with the wolf killed the heavy golem with short bow while stacking bleeds and kept pet on passive took 20,19,and 21 shots to kill so an average of 20. Now using SB and starting pet from range took 15, 14 , 14 shots to kill about an average of 14.33 shots. now attacking with pet at target before shooting took 13, 13, and 14 shots and average of 14.33 shots. Which makes the wolf account for 33.33% of my damage or my stats only affecting 66.66% of my damage out put give or take .01%.

Now as someone else mentioned there has been new gear introduced I personally have karka shell earring, ascended back piece, and two fractal rings with much better stats than my exotic gear prior to these upgrades. My pet receives 0 benefits from of these stats widening the advantage for non pet classes.

I never stated my pet got buffs. Just that my Ranger did. I think you misunderstood my post.
I remarked that the OP dropped statistics that are made up. What you tested is common knowledge.

Calavero.3420:

Facepalm.

Read his post again. He, quite literally, word for word says, repeatedly, that the pet not gaining any of our stats is the deficit he’s complaining about.

The total pet damage/survivability contribution was probably balanced around the level 80 game at the time of release… which was fine, until they introduced scaling (such as the Agony system(. Once that happened, the lack of pet scaling became a real problem, which will continue to get worse as the end game scaling continues or more tiers of gear are added. It’s poor design, and lazy on the developers’ part.

To be honest, at this point I think YOU’RE the one who’s trolling. The OP has a very valid point – please stop trying to derail the thread.

Yes all this i understand. Again read my first quote from the OP. I am wondering how he came to the 60% figure. Is it for the ranger, pet or both.

I don’t understand why you are arguing some point of fact we all know.
I want to know how the 60% figure is derived and i also stated that my ranger get full benefits of my gear. I never said my pet did.

Try again.

A MM necro or turret engineer has the same problem, the majority of their damage (in theory, everyone knows minions and turrets suck right now but thats not the point) come from their pets as well. It’d be nice if they made any kind of change for it to affect them as well.

Chambered.7135:

Fjandi.2516:

Rei.4815:

I actually prefer it this way. I mainly do pvp, and I like to spec my ranger pretty defensively. The way things are now allows me to still inflict decent dmg via the pet. I can prevent pets from dies with pet swapping anyway. I see this as a major advantage as a ranger compared to other profs. I can basically go full bunker and still deal decent damage for example with a jaguar.

Exactly. Looks like most ppl haven’t realized it yet. What the op has suggested imo would not benefit the class at all.

Right now pets get no boost from player stats. If they all the sudden started getting boosts it would in no way make pets less effective. In your case, your DPS pets would deal the same damage, but become more resilient. I don’t believe the OP was talking about determining a pet’s base stats entirely off of the Ranger’s state – just giving them the bonuses those stats are supposed to give to the player.

Stats should certainly affect pets, or the stats should scale on the Ranger themselves to compensate.

Pets won’t “all of a sudden” benefit from your stats. If you take your pets and add a portion of your stats to them in way that will bring them up to the level they should be mathematically on par with the equipment tier, the previous issue still stands.

What’s more likely is that Pet’s base stats will be reduced, so that equipment scaling for pets will be meaningful and pet scaling won’t have to be adjusted with every new piece of content, just like Pet base stats now. This is what would primarily lead to the problem of making a Ranger very stale to play.

No matter what, if your pet scales off of your defensive build to be bulkier, that seems good, however a glass cannon Ranger’s pet will always be more threatening. Which means, you will lose out on a Ranger’s most important strength and the key to what truly makes the Ranger stand out. That is the Ranger’s versatility and teamwork. A true Ranger never fights alone and by making their companion an extension of themselves you take that away.

A simple and elegant solution would have the pets boost their stats according to their type (for example, cats have high precision, bears have high vitality), in an amount determined by the total stat weight of the gear the Ranger is wearing.

In other words, a level 80 Ranger in green gear will have a certain (determined by gear level and quality) amount of stat point weight, which is less than a level 80 Ranger in exotics would have.

That gear stat allocation would boost the green quality item Ranger’s pet attributes slightly, and the exotic wearing Ranger’s pet significantly more. The exotic geared Ranger’s bear gets more vitality, his cats get more precision, etc, across the board.

Everyone wins. Pets get stronger from our getting better gear, and the various pet types retain their individuality by scaling differently based on their existing stats.

This is not exactly rocket science. I tattoo people for a living. Heck, I figured this out today while I was tattooing someone.