Guild Wars 2

Power Rangers are infinitely more common in low-mid tier pvp than condi builds, whether they be settler’s survival or carrion trap. Why is this the case, when everything we really know about rangers suggest that the condition builds are overall better than power builds?

Usually speaking, the meta builds are much more commonly seen than the non-meta builds, and the general consensus for the past years has always placed condi ranger as more meta than power, even if it was only truly meta during the spirit ranger era.

What do you guys think about this, and what is your reason for not playing condi?

Because the power build comes with the better weaponset. Also, who said that condi builds are better? I just saw a power build being used in a tournament.

I play condi… but sometimes it’s better to make fast 7-10k physical damage, than 3 min-5 min fight against Ele with “Diamond skin” trait or against cele shout/ham/bow warrior.

condi ranger blows atm

I run full condi, and have no issues with it what so ever…absolutely love it, but I only run open world PvE, dungeons, and fractals.

I can tell you why I didn’t use to play condi – Longbow. LB is the Ranger weapon of choice because… Ranger.

But I decided to try something else and loved it. I’m running condi now and having a great time. And the survival is better. If they nerf burn though it might cease to be good – unless they buff bleed at the same time.

You are talking about PvE. You simply can’t have any issues no matter what you are doing if you’re not out of your mind.

Wuselknusel.4082:

You are talking about PvE. You simply can’t have any issues no matter what you are doing if you’re not out fo your mind.

Pretty much this

In PvE, any build works because this game has the easiest, hold your hand , PvE system I’ve seen in any MMO

Now if you are talking about PvP, its simple – Power LB/GS is just simply better and more dangerous than a condi ranger. You are deadly from range and up close as well. You got strong support tools as well and trait synergy is better IMO with power than condi specs.

In PvE: Run what you want. If you want to get creative, get a guild/friends and avoid Pugs. You’ll be fine.

In PvP: Don’t care for the mode so don’t play it much, but I imagine players aren’t standing in your condition application areas long enough for them to do any good. Plus LB and GS are great burst weapons, which matters a LOT on enemies than are mobile.

In WvW: A lot of people run condition damage. It’s excellent at flipping camps, handling roamers, or breaking up small groups. In the zerg, however, it tends to fall behind since there’s so much clearing going on and the damage can’t really seem to ramp. (That’s why we get second sets of gear!)

All depends on your playStyle.
If you want to be BunkerPointHolder, then you have to chose condi gear.
If you want to be deadly killing machine, then you have to chose zerker.

All simple.

I’m thinking of trying out a lulz trapper for WvWvW, but my main deterrent is having to actually craft Sinister Gear.

(If I do it, it’ll be riffing massively on WoodenPotatoes trapper build)

Wuselknusel.4082:

You are talking about PvE. You simply can’t have any issues no matter what you are doing if you’re not out of your mind.

True, but the difference comes in when you start caring about how long it takes to clear content. Sure, you can clear anything in nomad’s gear but it can take 30+ minutes longer and… ain’t nobody got time for that! So, at that point, those with enough skill start going full DPS… Then there’s some of us that are competitive against ourselves on how quickly we can complete content solo… then none (like myself) that get no enjoyment from PVP or WVW so I play PVE. I do enjoy the learning process of learning mechanics and how to most efficiently handle them etc.

MattyP.6954:

I’m thinking of trying out a lulz trapper for WvWvW, but my main deterrent is having to actually craft Sinister Gear.

(If I do it, it’ll be riffing massively on WoodenPotatoes trapper build)

I highly advise AGAINST sinister trapper in WvW. Rabid is outstanding for the build, while a Rabid/Carrion mix, or Dire/Rabid mix (what I user) works very well. Remember that for Ranger the Power Coefficients and Base damage aren’t outstanding, so the loss of Ferocity isn’t something a trapper ranger usually notices. By dropping in Rabid you actually end up dealing more damage than sinister, once Utility is applied (6% toughness to condition damage) in addition to being better protected against stealth bursts.

Sinister works well for PvE, and is probably the way to go for PvP, but for WvW Rabid is the all-star.

In the old meta, even though condi ranger had way more survivability than LB ranger, there was too much condi cleanse for condi survival to be effective.

In the new meta trap ranger seems to do pretty good damage, but it is just as glassy as LB so the benefit (which was survivability) seems to be lost.

For me its because condi ranger just isn’t that fun to play >.< My playstyle is so different that while I can play it effectively I never have that natural feeling when playing it.

Trap ranger will be an absolute beast if and only if they add utility to traps other than spike trap. An elite trap could be useful as well. Placing traps on your bar means you end up realistically only taking 1 stunbreak/defensive utility. With Rampage Warriors, Mantra Mesmers, plus everyone else running around there is way too much cc for that.

Condi bunker is actually a very decent build, it just takes a while to kill people. This means you’re banking on either being left alone long enough to win the fight, or your team mates rotating through before the opposing team does. You also have no team fight presence on this build, nor do you have any real mobility out of combat, meaning rotating from whatever point could be a game losing decision.

Power ranger builds have team fight presence. They can contest nodes. Decent survivability. Decent damage. Good mobility in and out of combat, meaning you can play the whole map as long as you make smart decisions about your movements.

jewishjoyride.4693:

Trap ranger will be an absolute beast if and only if they add utility to traps other than spike trap. An elite trap could be useful as well. Placing traps on your bar means you end up realistically only taking 1 stunbreak/defensive utility. With Rampage Warriors, Mantra Mesmers, plus everyone else running around there is way too much cc for that.

Condi bunker is actually a very decent build, it just takes a while to kill people. This means you’re banking on either being left alone long enough to win the fight, or your team mates rotating through before the opposing team does. You also have no team fight presence on this build, nor do you have any real mobility out of combat, meaning rotating from whatever point could be a game losing decision.

Power ranger builds have team fight presence. They can contest nodes. Decent survivability. Decent damage. Good mobility in and out of combat, meaning you can play the whole map as long as you make smart decisions about your movements.

Make traps as a kit, so we could have 1 more utility,

Make traps an elite kit, with an elite trap (Smoke Trap) so we have access to 3 utility skills. Bam, all trap issues solved. Doesn’t matter if you cannot throw them if they were a kit because you could have all 5 to leave around the map as you please or spam over a node.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Make traps an elite kit, with an elite trap (Smoke Trap) so we have access to 3 utility skills. Bam, all trap issues solved. Doesn’t matter if you cannot throw them if they were a kit because you could have all 5 to leave around the map as you please or spam over a node.

Like bombs right?

PS: You are talking about Dust Trap right?

It’s because condi is bad against all of the common builds/professions.
Ele has insane removal.
Shout bunker guardian is a thing again.
Warrior builds managed to pick up some cleansing (at least shoutbow is dead) on their meta build.
Thieves got all of their old meta builds options for free in a single build, cleansing included.
Mantra mesmers have great removal as well.

Necro, while not considered “meta” so to speak also outright hardcounters condi builds.

Not to mention at least half of those mentioned are AoE removals. And coordination only makes all of those cleansing options stronger, which weakens condi builds considerably.

As a matter of fact, none of this information is exclusive to ranger. NO class has pure condition build this meta. Ele and necro are both running cele and that’s as close as it gets, and more because survival is more optimal with cele on those builds.

StickerHappy.8052:

jewishjoyride.4693:

Trap ranger will be an absolute beast if and only if they add utility to traps other than spike trap. An elite trap could be useful as well. Placing traps on your bar means you end up realistically only taking 1 stunbreak/defensive utility. With Rampage Warriors, Mantra Mesmers, plus everyone else running around there is way too much cc for that.

Condi bunker is actually a very decent build, it just takes a while to kill people. This means you’re banking on either being left alone long enough to win the fight, or your team mates rotating through before the opposing team does. You also have no team fight presence on this build, nor do you have any real mobility out of combat, meaning rotating from whatever point could be a game losing decision.

Power ranger builds have team fight presence. They can contest nodes. Decent survivability. Decent damage. Good mobility in and out of combat, meaning you can play the whole map as long as you make smart decisions about your movements.

Make traps as a kit, so we could have 1 more utility,

Please don’t. If I want kit swapping I’ll jump on engi thanks. Let’s keep ranger a ranger, 2015.

StickerHappy.8052:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Make traps an elite kit, with an elite trap (Smoke Trap) so we have access to 3 utility skills. Bam, all trap issues solved. Doesn’t matter if you cannot throw them if they were a kit because you could have all 5 to leave around the map as you please or spam over a node.

Like bombs right?

PS: You are talking about Dust Trap right?

Yeah, you could trap the paths all the time with them to slow people down and keep them in combat, dump 5 traps over the node after you cap it, many uses if they were a kit.

No, I mean Smoke Trap. AoE Blind and Daze with a smoke field.

I love condition builds (mostly the fiery kind), but the reason I use crusader instead?

Two words: Diamond Skin

….And, the endless supply of them (in PvP)

Archon.6480:

I love condition builds (mostly the fiery kind), but the reason I use crusader instead?

Two words: Diamond Skin

….And, the endless supply of them (in PvP)

That and bunker Guards, Cele Signet Necros, cele eles (without Diamond Skin), and even to some extent still, inspiration mesmers.

Just to name a few others lol.

Ask why really nobody runs Condition builds in PvP first.

AoE Condition Removal, since 2012.

Other than the hard counters like DS Ele, I really dislike using the Axe and hate the shortbow. So no significant range pressure and crappy gap closers means something like s/d and a/t set can get kited/reset very easily.

I always thought is due to torch/dagger smaller radius and range, I expect to c more condi rangers now.

LughLongArm.5460:

I always thought is due to torch/dagger smaller radius and range, I expect to c more condi rangers now.

Yeah, especially with Quick Draw. As a point holder, it should be pretty good. We have so much reapplication that it should still do good damage as well as being able to be tanky and have a DPS pet.

Once there is PvE condi meta in full swing, PvP condi ranger will make a big comeback imo.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

I always thought is due to torch/dagger smaller radius and range, I expect to c more condi rangers now.

Yeah, especially with Quick Draw. As a point holder, it should be pretty good. We have so much reapplication that it should still do good damage as well as being able to be tanky and have a DPS pet.

Once there is PvE condi meta in full swing, PvP condi ranger will make a big comeback imo.

Amen to that, I also dont think the diamond ele is a hard counter to condi ranger. DPS pers with BM and some might will get the ele under 90% .

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

I always thought is due to torch/dagger smaller radius and range, I expect to c more condi rangers now.

Yeah, especially with Quick Draw. As a point holder, it should be pretty good. We have so much reapplication that it should still do good damage as well as being able to be tanky and have a DPS pet.

Once there is PvE condi meta in full swing, PvP condi ranger will make a big comeback imo.

Amen to that, I also dont think the diamond ele is a hard counter to condi ranger. DPS pers with BM and some might will get the ele under 90% .

Aye, AA then F2 from Owl will take the ele below 90% and then chill them to boot.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

I always thought is due to torch/dagger smaller radius and range, I expect to c more condi rangers now.

Yeah, especially with Quick Draw. As a point holder, it should be pretty good. We have so much reapplication that it should still do good damage as well as being able to be tanky and have a DPS pet.

Once there is PvE condi meta in full swing, PvP condi ranger will make a big comeback imo.

Amen to that, I also dont think the diamond ele is a hard counter to condi ranger. DPS pers with BM and some might will get the ele under 90% .

Aye, AA then F2 from Owl will take the ele below 90% and then chill them to boot.

Agreed, but if you were to use melee and high damage you can almost /sleep and faceroll them.

Edit: ok maybe not faceroll, but it’s faster than trying to kill with conditions, right?

Archon.6480:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

LughLongArm.5460:

I always thought is due to torch/dagger smaller radius and range, I expect to c more condi rangers now.

Yeah, especially with Quick Draw. As a point holder, it should be pretty good. We have so much reapplication that it should still do good damage as well as being able to be tanky and have a DPS pet.

Once there is PvE condi meta in full swing, PvP condi ranger will make a big comeback imo.

Amen to that, I also dont think the diamond ele is a hard counter to condi ranger. DPS pers with BM and some might will get the ele under 90% .

Aye, AA then F2 from Owl will take the ele below 90% and then chill them to boot.

Agreed, but if you were to use melee and high damage you can almost /sleep and faceroll them.

Edit: ok maybe not faceroll, but it’s faster than trying to kill with conditions, right?

Condi bunker BM builds, have the potentioal of winning any 1vs1 while being on base.
Now with condis stacking togather, they also have good team fight capabilities.
We might see condi rangers make a comback, the radius on bonfire was realy holding them back, but its no longer an issue.

Some will have you believe that LB/GS works better. Truth is, it’s just DIFFERENT. They fill different roles and do different things.

In solo-que, where no one wants to hold a point for more than 5s, LB/GS won’t help your team, it’s probably going to do more harm than good. There’s only 1 player that I know of who I’ve seen play LB/GS better than anyone and that’s Conditank. And even he can’t hold a point better than an average Sw/T Ax/D condi build.

Condi bunkers can win against Eles, mesmers, Engies, Thieves, Warriors even when they rampage, heck even Necros that love to transfer condis, it’s all about who’s behind the wheel.
They have good Rez denial and good rezz defence with Spike trap, great survivability with evades and good DPS support with a well timed entangle. What’s not to like?

Against the meta, I would honestly say that a well played LB/GS works better.

There’s a reason why there isn’t a single notable person running full condi in PvP (the closest are cele eles and necros).

WvW might be different though with the foods and weapon types (are people still using givers for more condi duration?) and etc.

jcbroe.4329:

Against the meta, I would honestly say that a well played LB/GS works better.

There’s a reason why there isn’t a single notable person running full condi in PvP (the closest are cele eles and necros).

WvW might be different though with the foods and weapon types (are people still using givers for more condi duration?) and etc.

WvW is different not just because of foods/weapon types, but also because of what matters. Condition rangers can flip camps easier than power (from my experience at least), and are easier to play with (especially with that torch radius increase!). Plus traps are just fun.

As for Giver’s, depends on the build. I’ve been running Giver’s weapons, and from what I’m finding they’re better against NPCs (that don’t clear) but the loss to condition damage hurts against players (who usually burn them off after a tick or too anyway). Probably best suited to someone running Frost Traps.

Dirame.8521:

Some will have you believe that LB/GS works better. Truth is, it’s just DIFFERENT. They fill different roles and do different things.

In solo-que, where no one wants to hold a point for more than 5s, LB/GS won’t help your team, it’s probably going to do more harm than good. There’s only 1 player that I know of who I’ve seen play LB/GS better than anyone and that’s Conditank. And even he can’t hold a point better than an average Sw/T Ax/D condi build.

Condi bunkers can win against Eles, mesmers, Engies, Thieves, Warriors even when they rampage, heck even Necros that love to transfer condis, it’s all about who’s behind the wheel.
They have good Rez denial and good rezz defence with Spike trap, great survivability with evades and good DPS support with a well timed entangle. What’s not to like?

Conditank is a pretty ironic name considering the nature of this discussio.

jcbroe.4329:

Against the meta, I would honestly say that a well played LB/GS works better.

There’s a reason why there isn’t a single notable person running full condi in PvP (the closest are cele eles and necros).

WvW might be different though with the foods and weapon types (are people still using givers for more condi duration?) and etc.

Just because “notable people” don’t run a particular combination does not mean that combination sucks. It may just mean they are too busy being enamored by a different combination.
I can tell you, I’ve seen more condi builds beat Eles than Power builds. My word may no stand for much as I’m not a notable person but as Eles are the most OP thing running around right now, I wouldn’t take that lightly.

nearlight.3064:

Power Rangers are infinitely more common in low-mid tier pvp than condi builds, whether they be settler’s survival or carrion trap. Why is this the case, when everything we really know about rangers suggest that the condition builds are overall better than power builds?

Usually speaking, the meta builds are much more commonly seen than the non-meta builds, and the general consensus for the past years has always placed condi ranger as more meta than power, even if it was only truly meta during the spirit ranger era.

What do you guys think about this, and what is your reason for not playing condi?

Because nerf?

Or not being able to find a single viable link to a condi build that even comes close to what I had before the last major patch.

Anyone having any condi-attack/clearing builds should be putting them here for reference or proof that condi isn’t dead and yet I don’t see a single one.

I don’t play it because I hate the responsiveness of the Axe. Cast time of 1/4 while my character is dazed for another 3/4 is hard for me to get used to.
That’s all there is to it.

I still play celestial, though.

Condition builds are viable with trap runes and rabid gear. I fine axe, torch, and either bow work fine. SB if you are also applying bleeds. Long bow if you find you need the range. This is, from my perspective anyway, for solo roaming in WvW or with a small group picking off stragglers, flipping camps, and camping NPC’s such as frogs, dredge, or ogres.

I believe this is my current build or close to it, won’t be online for a few:

Skirmish 3,3,2 (Trappers Expertise, Hidden Barbs, Light on your feet)
Wilderness 2,2,1 (Oakheart Salve, Refined Toxins, Empathic Bond)
Nature Magic 2,1,2 (Instinctive Reaction, Evasive Purity, Protective Ward)

LB is sigil of air and incapacitation
SB is sigil of doom and earth
AXE is sigil of agony
Torch is sigil of geomancy
Healing spring, spike, flame, frost traps with entangle.

Pets are wolf/spider. Armor is Rabid. Accessories are all ascended celestial stats. Back is exotic crafted. The one that freaks out my bear pet and always asks me what did the bear do to me to become my back pack…

My berserker set and build flips everything quicker. Fights sort of go like melee kills me, range I’ll hold my own. If they are good, I don’t stand a chance (just me, I’m so so). For me it just comes down to comfort and how I feel I have more survivability and/or ways to reset / escape running traps. Fights do last longer solo which is a bust compared to LB/berserker. When I roam with people, elementalist or necro it puts more pressure and the traps become good cc. Just my take on it based on what I play.

Dirame.8521:

jcbroe.4329:

Against the meta, I would honestly say that a well played LB/GS works better.

There’s a reason why there isn’t a single notable person running full condi in PvP (the closest are cele eles and necros).

WvW might be different though with the foods and weapon types (are people still using givers for more condi duration?) and etc.

Just because “notable people” don’t run a particular combination does not mean that combination sucks. It may just mean they are too busy being enamored by a different combination.
I can tell you, I’ve seen more condi builds beat Eles than Power builds. My word may no stand for much as I’m not a notable person but as Eles are the most OP thing running around right now, I wouldn’t take that lightly.

Notable people was a way of saying “the competitive teams that run the game at top tier and where the metagame is existent and matters.”

With perfect play, a D/D ele shouldn’t be dying in ANY 1v1 situation unless they are moa’d.

“Notable people” are the players that are going to be player as close to perfect play as possible, and where some other build might be able to beat some random hotjoin ele, you’re going to have to outnumber or use a game changing elite on any ele worth their salt to actually kill them, regardless of what build you run.

You took my response out of context though, because if you had scrolled up just a little farther, you would see where I said that condi builds aren’t bad (they are actually very strong), and that they are just weak against the meta.

While I firmly believe pure condi builds are a little weak in that they can be hard countered to easily by current meta, I think Hybrid builds are in a great spot. Either Carrion or Celestial. I find both to be excellent, and work well against skilled opponents.

I find Cele and Carrion builds for Ranger to work the best.
Simply because all Condi bomb abilities have long CD and Power Builds do not have any condi strip or burst.

So the builds that are made for sustainable fight of mixed damage is the mechanical way of gameplay. Not because they are powerful but because they have far less counter-play.