Guild Wars 2

Entangle has an animation that hits the ground hard. So why does it not count as a blast finisher?

Unblockable aoe immobilize with 600 radius and decent bleeding damage on a decently low cooldown. A blast finisher would most likely make it too strong.

Kraljevo.2801:

Unblockable aoe immobilize with 600 radius and decent bleeding damage on a decently low cooldown. A blast finisher would most likely make it too strong.

Supply crate has a blast finisher. Okay, cd isn’t the same, but the utility of supply crate can’t be compaired either. You can easily destroy the vines with one barrage for example, but you won’t destroy a supply crate with a barrage. Also, supply crate drops med packs.

I don’t see any problem with giving Entagle a blast. You can even make entangle’s cd a bit longer, like 60 secs traited. Seems pretty fine an a good way to set some changes to traps and also bring some variation to power builds using healing spring.

I think it should be. Yea the skill is strong but it’s also a hit or miss skill.

Giving it a blast finisher would be icing on the cake, and it matches the animation perfectly.

I suspect it would be too strong, but would love to have this, as the game needs more combo field opportunities. This might give us the edge we need against celestial d/d elementalists. I am pretty sure this change would put us on par with them.

For one, it has 60s CD default.
Second, it can be traited to grant fury, cleanse conditions and have shorter cooldown, which makes rune effects proc often. Entangle can often be used at least 2 times in a fight, or 3 if you use it early. Most of the other elite skills (in the game) can’t do as much.

solrik.6028:

For one, it has 60s CD default.
Second, it can be traited to grant fury, cleanse conditions and have shorter cooldown, which makes rune effects proc often. Entangle can often be used at least 2 times in a fight, or 3 if you use it early. Most of the other elite skills (in the game) can’t do as much.

This sentiment that every class can’t have an advantage….

Who gives a kitten if other classes elites can’t do as much. The other classes aren’t rangers.

They are never going to make things ‘fair’. It’s an mmo played on Pc’s.
It’s not fair and it never will be.

Whether a class gets buffed or nerfed should 1-be based on the class mechanics (does it make sense) and 2-Will it be game breaking?

EnderzShadow.2506:

solrik.6028:

For one, it has 60s CD default.
Second, it can be traited to grant fury, cleanse conditions and have shorter cooldown, which makes rune effects proc often. Entangle can often be used at least 2 times in a fight, or 3 if you use it early. Most of the other elite skills (in the game) can’t do as much.

This sentiment that every class can’t have an advantage….

Who gives a kitten if other classes elites can’t do as much. The other classes aren’t rangers.

They are never going to make things ‘fair’. It’s an mmo played on Pc’s.
It’s not fair and it never will be.

Whether a class gets buffed or nerfed should 1-be based on the class mechanics (does it make sense) and 2-Will it be game breaking?

Yeah, it would be game breaking. A blast finisher would make ranger become a(n even better self-)healing class.

3 leap finishers, 4 blast finishers in one and the same build (if we count entangle blast finishing).

That’s about 9.1k heal for yourself and 5.2k heal for allies. All while you’re dealing damage or do whatever you’re doing. (And this is not even counting the fact that it’s possible to be invincible while doing the combo finishers)

solrik.6028:

3 leap finishers, 4 blast finishers in one and the same build (if we count entangle blast finishing).

Erm, out of interest, what build currently gives Ranger 3 leap finishers and 3 blast finishers?

Sword/warhorn gs with a blast finisher pet would be 3 leaps and 2 blasts. I’m sure you can find a third somewhere.

Kaz.5430:

solrik.6028:

3 leap finishers, 4 blast finishers in one and the same build (if we count entangle blast finishing).

Erm, out of interest, what build currently gives Ranger 3 leap finishers and 3 blast finishers?

Also, “while doing damage” hahaha

9,1k? how? let’s take out Entangle blast, that’s 1320 healing less for a total of 7780 healing. Are you suggesting that chaining GS 3, sword 2 (back and forward), 3 sword autoattack, a blast finisher from the horn, a blast from drake 1 (you need a target inside the water field to do this) and another blast from drake 2, inside a water field on a 10 seconds window is OP?. Because a) it sounds hard to achieve on that time b) I don’t think any build with those weapons is good. c) You can’t be dealing damage all the time while doing that and/or requiere the target to be sitting inside your waterfield.

Sadly, even though Rangers possess an incredible amount of healing attributes, they have zero viable builds to support this idea.

While we have access to 3 leap procs and 3 blast finishers – that would require GS / Sword+Warhorn build. Which means POWER ORIENTED. One way or another, Power builds are NOT VIABLE for PvP. And for PvE – you want to kill stuff, not to outheal them while NPCs die out of boredom.
So in both PvP and PvE concepts – the build is not viable. Even more so, to make something out of the healing, you’d either need to go for Toughness or Healing power (or both) that takes out any viability in Power Builds even for PvE (Rangers do not have a burst damage. They only have continual sustained damage that is drastically reduced by stats as such – Rangers do not have the active support pattern unlike other Bursty classes that are useful for buffs or utility while their burst is on CD).

A bonus blast finisher would not make the skill overpowered. In PvP you have to use the ability with your IQ, not on cooldown. Which means… You’d really have to think twice about using it for Combo blast. It would really make a difference in very high competitive scene for professional players that would definitely deserve it, or a bonus utility feature for regular rangers, that are playing for utility supportive builds – that does not use entangle for survival or key moments of the battle.

I think this would be a great addition to the ranger. The only reliable blast is on warhorn which has more synergy in power builds and is on a 35s cooldown. In no way would I find it game breaking because of the lack of blasts. You can’t count on pet blasts for kitten as they aren’t on the commands but on the attack rotation. The AI isn’t smart enough to think “my master is low on hp let me blast this water field”.

I’d be okay with adding a blast to lightning reflexes too with it’s crack of lightning. But something like that might be OP.

Someday.3650:

Kaz.5430:

solrik.6028:

3 leap finishers, 4 blast finishers in one and the same build (if we count entangle blast finishing).

Erm, out of interest, what build currently gives Ranger 3 leap finishers and 3 blast finishers?

Also, “while doing damage” hahaha

9,1k? how? let’s take out Entangle blast, that’s 1320 healing less for a total of 7780 healing. Are you suggesting that chaining GS 3, sword 2 (back and forward), 3 sword autoattack, a blast finisher from the horn, a blast from drake 1 (you need a target inside the water field to do this) and another blast from drake 2, inside a water field on a 10 seconds window is OP?. Because a) it sounds hard to achieve on that time b) I don’t think any build with those weapons is good. c) You can’t be dealing damage all the time while doing that and/or requiere the target to be sitting inside your waterfield.

2 Leaps from GS,
1 Leap from Sword,
1 Blast finisher from Warhorn
1 Blast finisher from Drake
1 Blast finisher from second Drake

The first three can pretty much be done at the same time as the first two.
Drake finishers and Leaps depend on the enemy’s position, but they are not required to stay inside the water field.
Entangle or any skill that makes the enemy unable to move can ensure the two drake finishers.
The leap from GS should be used from the healing spring, preferably in a way that ensures double finishing.
The leap from sword can be used in a way that makes one retreat into the healing spring, to continue with leaping out of it. The warhorn can be used between Hornet Sting and Monarch’s Leap.

For the second point, GS leap will deal damage, sword #2 will deal damage, warhorn will increase damage, drakes will also deal damage. (Obviously any of the skills can be mitigated if the enemy dodges, duhh)

A build that focuses on doing these combos works, but not in the way as most people thinks. It is difficult to play in 1v1 situations and very easy to use in a 1v2 situation (if the build has toughness/vitality), partly because people tend to think that outnumbering the enemy will mean 100% win and won’t pay as much attention to what’s happening………

Tragic Positive.9356:

In PvP you have to use the ability with your IQ, not on cooldown. Which means… You’d really have to think twice about using it for Combo blast. It would really make a difference in very high competitive scene for professional players that would definitely deserve it, or a bonus utility feature for regular rangers, that are playing for utility supportive builds – that does not use entangle for survival or key moments of the battle.

Actually, a ranger running entangle is probably playing a condi-build. If entangle is available, the best thing to do is to condi-bomb the enemy(-ies) and then use entangle to ensure that people stay in it. It can be used for preventing stomps, though, so I’m not saying “THIS IS THE ONLY WAY”

Can I safely assume that you are a professional player in very high competitive scenes? “Professional” players don’t even use the builds that “Amateur” players use.

isn’t entangle already plenty good anyway? i mean, the reasoning behind this buff would be “it matches the animation” not “it’s weak and needs it”? doesn’t sound like a solid ground for a buff.

i’m sure ranger has utilities that need much more love than entangle.

solrik.6028:

Can I safely assume that you are a professional player in very high competitive scenes? “Professional” players don’t even use the builds that “Amateur” players use.

I used to be a high level competitive PvP player in a different MMO. Also a Class Leader of the server’s top guild that held record of over 75% realm first achievements, just as numerous PvP titles, if it’s any important at this topic.

While I do not have that much time to dedicate to it, nor do I have the rank, I still have the theory-craft, statistics, brainstorming and fact formula that can be applied regardless of my rank or experience in this game.

Still, my opinion is that a bonus blast finisher on a 48 (60) second cooldown is not game breaking at all. If it was game breaking, then the Healing Ranger would have to be viable today, even without the blast finisher. Yet, it is not viable at all. Proof? There is literally no ranger playing it, even though it has been considered by several of us.

adozu.6398:

isn’t entangle already plenty good anyway? i mean, the reasoning behind this buff would be “it matches the animation” not “it’s weak and needs it”? doesn’t sound like a solid ground for a buff.

i’m sure ranger has utilities that need much more love than entangle.

About this, I agree.
Rangers could use bonus utility in other part of the gameplay than already viable Condi-based spec. Especially Warhorn is … Meh. Damage is low, CD for AoE buffs is long (Blast finisher sticks along with this), and the utility it provides is not even that great.
I’d definitely buff that part of the ranger.

adozu.6398:

isn’t entangle already plenty good anyway? i mean, the reasoning behind this buff would be “it matches the animation” not “it’s weak and needs it”? doesn’t sound like a solid ground for a buff.

i’m sure ranger has utilities that need much more love than entangle.

Yeah, there’s no discussion about that. We’re just talking about ideas in case arena net reads this forum :P

adozu.6398:

isn’t entangle already plenty good anyway? i mean, the reasoning behind this buff would be “it matches the animation” not “it’s weak and needs it”? doesn’t sound like a solid ground for a buff.

i’m sure ranger has utilities that need much more love than entangle.

They’ve used animation ‘fix’ in the past to justify nerfs so why not.

Ranger has only 1 reliable blast finisher and it’s on a support weapon that very few people use in PvP.

IMO only maul and entangle could be blast finishers.

sminkiottone.6972:

Ranger has only 1 reliable blast finisher and it’s on a support weapon that very few people use in PvP.

IMO only maul and entangle could be blast finishers.

With Maul as a Blast finisher, GreatSword would immediately become a top tier weapon in every scenario. PvP, PvE… Every power based spec would include one.
And why I say it is because it has Burst Peak potential, and with a 4,5 second cooldown on a blast finisher (everyone would trait it on default, no more off-hand mastery), with almost 25% objective evade uptime and only around 8% damage loss on a single target against 1h Sword – is just way too much to ask for.

This is yet another idea to buff up an already viable way of playing Ranger. But unlike Entangle idea, Maul would be broken.

Tragic Positive.9356:

This is yet another idea to buff up an already viable way of playing Ranger. But unlike Entangle idea, Maul would be broken.

You are right, what about the Nature renewal (spirit active) ? allied down ? cast healing spring and then blast it XD… ok that would also be a bit OP.

In all seriousness I feel that ranger could use 1 more blast finisher, on what weapon/skill I don’t know, maybe give some love to shortbow or shouts.

sminkiottone.6972:

Tragic Positive.9356:

This is yet another idea to buff up an already viable way of playing Ranger. But unlike Entangle idea, Maul would be broken.

You are right, what about the Nature renewal (spirit active) ? allied down ? cast healing spring and then blast it XD… ok that would also be a bit OP.

In all seriousness I feel that ranger could use 1 more blast finisher, on what weapon/skill I don’t know, maybe give some love to shortbow or shouts.

I think it’s about time they rework search and rescue. Make it something different, unique, and a blast finisher.

Soilder.3607:

sminkiottone.6972:

Tragic Positive.9356:

This is yet another idea to buff up an already viable way of playing Ranger. But unlike Entangle idea, Maul would be broken.

You are right, what about the Nature renewal (spirit active) ? allied down ? cast healing spring and then blast it XD… ok that would also be a bit OP.

In all seriousness I feel that ranger could use 1 more blast finisher, on what weapon/skill I don’t know, maybe give some love to shortbow or shouts.

I think it’s about time they rework search and rescue. Make it something different, unique, and a blast finisher.

Search and Rescue doesn’t need to be a res as we already have a brilliant one, it should be revamped into something that prevents deaths. Something like the guardian meditation, your pet (or you) teleport to a nearby player who is low on health and you give them protection and heal them.

Benjamin.8237:

Search and Rescue doesn’t need to be a res as we already have a brilliant one, it should be revamped into something that prevents deaths. Something like the guardian meditation, your pet (or you) teleport to a nearby player who is low on health and you give them protection and heal them.

Guild Wars currently does not support “target=ally” abilities. Even though the idea is nice – the game is not programmed for it, yet.

My idea would be “Intervene!” that would charge your pet to a selected AoE radius (let’s say… 200?) and apply protection to allies (4s?), weakness to enemies (4s?) and provide a blast finisher. Cooldown could be anywhere between 30-45 seconds.

How does it sound?

Tragic Positive.9356:

Benjamin.8237:

Search and Rescue doesn’t need to be a res as we already have a brilliant one, it should be revamped into something that prevents deaths. Something like the guardian meditation, your pet (or you) teleport to a nearby player who is low on health and you give them protection and heal them.

Guild Wars currently does not support “target=ally” abilities. Even though the idea is nice – the game is not programmed for it, yet.

My idea would be “Intervene!” that would charge your pet to a selected AoE radius (let’s say… 200?) and apply protection to allies (4s?), weakness to enemies (4s?) and provide a blast finisher. Cooldown could be anywhere between 30-45 seconds.

How does it sound?

The guardian skill does exactly that, you don’t select who you go to but it picks the one with the lowest hp.

Benjamin.8237:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Benjamin.8237:

Search and Rescue doesn’t need to be a res as we already have a brilliant one, it should be revamped into something that prevents deaths. Something like the guardian meditation, your pet (or you) teleport to a nearby player who is low on health and you give them protection and heal them.

Guild Wars currently does not support “target=ally” abilities. Even though the idea is nice – the game is not programmed for it, yet.

My idea would be “Intervene!” that would charge your pet to a selected AoE radius (let’s say… 200?) and apply protection to allies (4s?), weakness to enemies (4s?) and provide a blast finisher. Cooldown could be anywhere between 30-45 seconds.

How does it sound?

The guardian skill does exactly that, you don’t select who you go to but it picks the one with the lowest hp.

Oh… Sorry… My bad.

Benjamin.8237:

The guardian skill does exactly that, you don’t select who you go to but it picks the one with the lowest hp.

How about the “Intervene!” still had the AoE radius indicator, but gave Aegis to allies and Blind to enemies; also still provided blast finisher.
Would also make more sense since intervene. Would open more options for supportive rangers, too.

Benjamin.8237:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Benjamin.8237:

Search and Rescue doesn’t need to be a res as we already have a brilliant one, it should be revamped into something that prevents deaths. Something like the guardian meditation, your pet (or you) teleport to a nearby player who is low on health and you give them protection and heal them.

Guild Wars currently does not support “target=ally” abilities. Even though the idea is nice – the game is not programmed for it, yet.

My idea would be “Intervene!” that would charge your pet to a selected AoE radius (let’s say… 200?) and apply protection to allies (4s?), weakness to enemies (4s?) and provide a blast finisher. Cooldown could be anywhere between 30-45 seconds.

How does it sound?

The guardian skill does exactly that, you don’t select who you go to but it picks the one with the lowest hp.

They changed that, It is now ground target, and teleports only if there is an ally in that area. so close to the same, but mostly a fix because it was broken as hell and rarely ever put you to the lowest health ally before.