Guild Wars 2

I’ve noticed a lot of negative topics about the ranger being underpowered or bad etc. etc. I have a level 50 ranger and it’s currently my main. All these comments make me want to choose a different class to play as so I don’t waste more time. Can someone explain why the ranger is getting so much negative feedback and what about the ranger needs work so I can understand it?

Rangers are good in PvE for bears can tank a lot for you, but mob clearing speed is sub-par compare to other professions. In PvP, rangers are just under-powered warrior, it doesn’t matter ranged or melee, warriors can do much better than rangers. Being one of the main damage source of rangers, pets can barely hit moving targets, ranger is now the worst PvP profession. The only thing good about being a ranger is for role-playing, which not many people today care about.

Read the massive thread, you can’t miss it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-update/page/19#post821689

Reclaimermaster.4107:

I’ve noticed a lot of negative topics about the ranger being underpowered or bad etc. etc. I have a level 50 ranger and it’s currently my main. All these comments make me want to choose a different class to play as so I don’t waste more time. Can someone explain why the ranger is getting so much negative feedback and what about the ranger needs work so I can understand it?

The Ranger is badOBSTRUCTED because it’s not OBSTRUCTEDgood at anything.
Want to fight from range? WarriorsOBSTRUCTED and thiefs can outperform
See this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_rXq2LYg0
Want to fight melee?OBSTRUCTEDGuard, Warrior, Thief can outperform
Want to OBSTRUCTEDsupport?Ele and Guard can do it betterOBSTRUCTED

This is because of a lack of OBSTRUCTEDa clearlyOBSTRUCTED defined role for the ranger
The ranger only excelsOBSTRUCTED in PvE, but lacks inOBSTRUCTED WvW and pvp
WvW and pvp are OBSTRUCTEDendgame things and once you hit level 80 you find that all things the rangers OBSTRUCTEDcould do before are outshined by other classes
On a second thought ranger fails at PvE endgame aswell
The lack of damage and even mobs in orr and Southsun kill your pet in a few hits makes pets useless
SO pets are only useful for 80- leveling

Problems…
1.Bad AI for pet OBSTRUCTEDsince Anet believes a good portion of damage comes from a pet it leads them to believe thatOBSTRUCTED the player shouldn’t be as strong
The problemOBSTRUCTED is with that is that pets can’t attack while moving although they can hit quite hard when traited.
They are also extremely weak and get instagibbed in WvW zergs and pvp
2.The leads to OBSTRUCTEDtraits and utilities
The traits of a ranger are OBSTRUCTEDmostly broken or useless see this link
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/65758-compiling-a-list-of-useless-traits/
What’s left is ultilities
The counterpartOBSTRUCTED to endure pain is protect me
Protect me is a great ideaOBSTRUCTED that would only work if the pet acutally lived to do it
So OBSTRUCTEDendure pain is vastly superior OBSTRUCTEDto protect me
So it comes downOBSTRUCTED to traps and spirits
Traps have long cooldown, but are pretty good
Spirits have cooldowns for theirOBSTRUCTED skills and are very weak so they aren’t reliable

So what are we “left” with
~Broken OBSTRUCTEDsword OBSTRUCTEDthat makes you leap everywhere
~Shortbow(Only reliable weapon imo) but that got OBSTRUCTEDslightly nerfed and isn’t going anywhereOBSTRUCTED
~ Longbow The rapid fire “burst” skill does just about the same damage as the autoattack
Axe ok
Horn ok

The problem with theOBSTRUCTED ranger is a gigantic problem built into GW2 itself
All combat is too close quarters
Too many gap closers unreliable knockbacks

BUT MY BIGGEST GRIPE IS THE OBSTRUCTED ARROWS WHICH KILLS OUR DAMAGE

I hope this post displays the annoyance of obstuctions and the problems of the ranger

If you’ve already gotten to level 50 on your ranger and you enjoy it then stick with it. It honestly doesn’t change that much between 50 and 80 for general PvE purposes.

The problems with rangers are in sPvP, WvW, and dungeons. That’s not to say rangers don’t have problems in general PvE but if you enjoy it then the problems don’t matter since you don’t have to deal with groups. When you only have to answer to yourself (e.g. general PvE) decide for yourself.

Fingers crossed the ranger will be better some time this year.

For lack of a better comparison,

There’s lost of little landmines in building a Ranger right now. Little bits and pieces not functioning well, not functioning well with eachother, or not functioning entirely. People step on those landmines during the process of build creation because they don’t know to avoid them or can’t find a comfortable playstyle working around them, and become dissapointed with the results.

Having these restrictions while building in PvP is alot more trouble than PvE, because the Meta is a thing that shifts relative to the tactics and discoveries of other players, not a controlled experience balanced against ages ago. People will say Ranger’s weak in PvP, because the meta is currently shifted into a place that a Ranger has to navigate alot of hidden landmines to build into, and being so restricted means we might have a hard time building into the new meta when it gets around to shifting again.

If you have a build you like and you don’t feel like there’s any problems, congrats! It’s entirely possible you’re just exploring an area of the Ranger’s Build structure that’s entirely landmine free.

You’ve managed to avoid some bugs spoiling your picnic; feel blessed, not bad.

For the most part, it comes down to a lack of a real place to call his own in the game.

Lets look at the classes for a moment.

Warriors: Can take lots of damage, and dish it out. Comes out on top when “butting heads together” so to speak.

Mesmer: Confuses and tricks opponents.

Thief: Stealthy, can quickly engage, and disengage in combat.

Guardian: Buffs, buffs everywhere.

Engineer: Tons of control, and adaptability with utility slots

Elementalist: Can change specialty on the fly

Necromancers: Corrupts boons, and feeds off the opponents around himself

Note how all these give the classes a role to call their own in combat, and something they can do. Rangers get a pet.

And here’s the kicker.

What role does a pet play in combat that can’t be done by other classes?

The ranger is effectively a jack of all trades that does nothing particularly well, which is most people’s gripe with it. However if you know how to avoid *most obstructions, then it is fairly constant nonstop damage from range, and that in itself is useful. That said, other classes can also do this, usually better :P hence the pointlessness other than having a cute pet.

lol obstructed, i get fed up with the mob turning invulnerable and running off undoing all the obstructed work i put into it

Rangers trying to play like warriors are bad. Rangers trying to play like they’re any other class but rangers are bad (need t3h big numberz plox).

Rangers that play like rangers are good. My view of it is that we’re not as good at straight up tanking as other classes. guardians can do that, Necros to an extent, im sure some others- but the difference is rangers can balance excellent survivability with damage, which the other bunker classes can’t even really finish off other players.
THAT is our trademark, along with imo the most offensive condition combinations. Lots of bleeding, burning, poison, chill…while other classes get weakness, and some cripple, and some blind(wow, 1 attack. cool), etc that help them but our conditions are for killing while theirs are more to mess with you. Pets also come into play here, giving you access to things supposed to be specialties for other classes (wolf’s fear, for example) or to supplement what you already do (more chill, more bleeding, more burning).

1. trait for surviability, and traps
2. kill with conditions
3. ???
4. profit

There’s fancier ways of killing, but our simple way of killing you with traps and conditions and…well pretty much just the shortbow work just fine

Malleus Maleficarum.2603:

Rangers trying to play like warriors are bad. Rangers trying to play like they’re any other class but rangers are bad (need t3h big numberz plox).

Rangers that play like rangers are good. My view of it is that we’re not as good at straight up tanking as other classes. guardians can do that, Necros to an extent, im sure some others- but the difference is rangers can balance excellent survivability with damage, which the other bunker classes can’t even really finish off other players.
THAT is our trademark, along with imo the most offensive condition combinations. Lots of bleeding, burning, poison, chill…while other classes get weakness, and some cripple, and some blind(wow, 1 attack. cool), etc that help them but our conditions are for killing while theirs are more to mess with you. Pets also come into play here, giving you access to things supposed to be specialties for other classes (wolf’s fear, for example) or to supplement what you already do (more chill, more bleeding, more burning).

1. trait for surviability, and traps
2. kill with conditions
3. ???
4. profit

There’s fancier ways of killing, but our simple way of killing you with traps and conditions and…well pretty much just the shortbow work just fine

the problem is that our conditions
the arrows don’t hit hard and conditions are hard to stack because of rolling and obstuctions and bleeds can be so easily cleansed

I recently been playing a lot of the other classes and I notice the Ranger has the worst down skills. Most class has great abilities to help them avoid stuff to survive. Rangers just sit there and have to wait like 5 or 6 seconds to rez their pet to heal them so you are literally doing nothing. The number 4 skill heal just doesn’t cut it especially if you get hit. The stun skill is useless compared to some of these other classes (completely useless in dungeon boss fights). The Pet rez is the worst one. If the pet is still alive he has to run all the way to you. In my experience my pet rez me 70% of the time. So on the other 30% that my pet does not rez me I just lost the Key down skill. I literally just watched myself die without being able to do nothing and I love pets but at that time I wish they just trash pets as part of the down skill mechanic.

Ranger user here, Anet Im gonna be blunt with you, Rangers are terrible atm.

Warriors out do us with there bows, Thieves cloak us to death AND outrun us (LOL, Define ranger anet) – Long & short Bow damage is subpar.

Tell me Anet what kind of “ranger” did you guys have in mind that fails so hard? When I think ranger I see a hunter a wilderness survivor…but no… we can have that can we?

Right now rangers are the Whipping boys of Gw2 and everyone knows it.

When it comes down to kiting every single class has a better arsonal, Lets face it when it comes down to running away as a ranger your chances of escaping are low.

We have Useless traits, our pets are useless, spirits are useless, heals are useless, downed skills are useless. Gw Rangers Would mop the floor with gw2 rangers – Thats a fact.

Anet thank you for ruining a class I loved so much.

Ranger’s are bad because Anet made them that way it is from the moment this game got released until now. Because Anet has not done a single thing to fix the issues faced with this professions, mainly the core mechanic bugs.

Simply because of a terrible class design. Nothing more. Nothing less.

If your going to advertise an ‘Unparalleled Archery’ class, atleast live up to the expectations of what that statement truly means. False advertisement leads to immense disapointment.

I had little problems with my ranger until I got to lvl 80, and started getting closer to full excotic gear. Then all the mobs started going for me all the time, and never ever for my pet. Now, Arenanet might not want us to have a pet that can tank for us all the time, but that also means that i’m not able to use the Shortbow bleed spec either.

Since we have to flank the mob, or stand behind them, to stack bleeds, we’re effectivly locked out of any form of condition spec on the ranger. And then there starts to be a limited amount of fun and usefulness left imo, because not everyone wanna stand 12-1500 ‘dots’ away from a mob with a slow, slow Longbow.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

What role does a pet play in combat that can’t be done by other classes?

They can die inexpensively, which makes them risk-free mob pullers when you need to pull.

They count as one unit when a hostile AoE has a limit on the number of units it can affect (except when it’s down).

A portion of your DPS is outsourced to them, which sucks when you’re only DPSing, but it’s a portion of your DPS that keeps going (unless it’s down) when you’re ressing someone or activating an environmental object or shooing your cat off the keyboard. When you’re down yourself and have an opportunity to rally, it’s a huge amount of DPS that doesn’t go down with you (unless it’s also down).

It provides an extra utility skill (unless it’s down), and its automated skills apply conditions as well (unless it’s down).

It looks awfully cute (especially when it’s down).

Predator.7321:

Malleus Maleficarum.2603:

Rangers trying to play like warriors are bad. Rangers trying to play like they’re any other class but rangers are bad (need t3h big numberz plox).

Rangers that play like rangers are good. My view of it is that we’re not as good at straight up tanking as other classes. guardians can do that, Necros to an extent, im sure some others- but the difference is rangers can balance excellent survivability with damage, which the other bunker classes can’t even really finish off other players.
THAT is our trademark, along with imo the most offensive condition combinations. Lots of bleeding, burning, poison, chill…while other classes get weakness, and some cripple, and some blind(wow, 1 attack. cool), etc that help them but our conditions are for killing while theirs are more to mess with you. Pets also come into play here, giving you access to things supposed to be specialties for other classes (wolf’s fear, for example) or to supplement what you already do (more chill, more bleeding, more burning).

1. trait for surviability, and traps
2. kill with conditions
3. ???
4. profit

There’s fancier ways of killing, but our simple way of killing you with traps and conditions and…well pretty much just the shortbow work just fine

the problem is that our conditions
the arrows don’t hit hard and conditions are hard to stack because of rolling and obstuctions and bleeds can be so easily cleansed

conditions are quite easily stacked in my experience, especially with throwable traps that are basically insta-cast…the spike trap even immobilizes so you can flank more to do more bleeding on top of the bleeding it already does…also, its not only about cleansing bleeding. say they have a skill that wipes out all conditions. we have so many skills that inflict damaging conditions the stacks will be back almost instantly(what i use is SB, Axe/torch, spike and flame trap, entangle) there’s no amount of condition cleansing that can protect them from this amount conditions, assuming you’re more proactive than just spamming 1 on SB the entire fight (which still works in PvE)

Munrock.3092:

Rottaran Owain.6789:

What role does a pet play in combat that can’t be done by other classes?

They can die inexpensively, which makes them risk-free mob pullers when you need to pull.

They count as one unit when a hostile AoE has a limit on the number of units it can affect (except when it’s down).

A portion of your DPS is outsourced to them, which sucks when you’re only DPSing, but it’s a portion of your DPS that keeps going (unless it’s down) when you’re ressing someone or activating an environmental object or shooing your cat off the keyboard. When you’re down yourself and have an opportunity to rally, it’s a huge amount of DPS that doesn’t go down with you (unless it’s also down).

It provides an extra utility skill (unless it’s down), and its automated skills apply conditions as well (unless it’s down).

It looks awfully cute (especially when it’s down).

Mostly every class can obtain pets/objects to act as an AoE target. Engineers can place 5 of them. Other examples include Elementals, ambush traps, and clones.

Also, the extra utility skill the pet has isn’t a role, and none of them do anything that other classes can’t do. Most are a simple stun, buff, or condition.

In my curiousity why ranger can’t use rifle or pistols, in my opinion a ranger should be able to use all ranged weapon instead giving 2 type melee weapons (sword and greatsword)..

and about the link on YouTube from prev post, on a character with rifle in sniping mode… I mean come on.. 10k++ damage

Before I saw the clip I don’t quite care about what ppl said about ranger since I enjoy it being one… but after that clip… I think I’ll build myself a new character. now I see how underpowered ranger really are

WhiteBear.6140:

… I don’t quite care about what ppl said about ranger since I enjoy it being one… but after that clip… I think I’ll build myself a new character. now I see how underpowered ranger really are

I just played a Ranger to 80 and they’re not underpowered. I accomplished all the same things with Ranger that I did with my other classes. They are, however, under-exciting. They’re basically born bots. Find where to stand, watch your auto-attack kill it, rinse, repeat.

I do think Ranger has some issues with their group-centric spirit build: the spirits die too easily. In order to make a spirit build work, you have to keep your spirits alive to buff the group. The harder the fight, the less likely the spirits are to live long enough to matter. So, they’re basically buffs for killing trash mobs. The range on the buffs is much too short, too.

Other than spirits, rangers don’t bring anything to a group than the same thing every class brings: dps. OTH, a low skill player with a Ranger won’t bring down a group the way a low skill player with a Warrior will. The war will be face down ALL the time from trying to melee without dodging or circling. The Ranger will be a busy little dps bot the entire time.

rangers aint all that bad. its just it has alot of flaws. eg.

- traitlines full of pet related traits and pet as u know are unreliable and super squishy. pet ai’s is also bad, they cant dodge/evades atks and they’re aggro magnets (its just painful to spend traits on pets like these). and did i mention they can block ur atks? O_o

- spirits are useful ONLY if they suvive but usually die in a hit. being immobile (unless u trait it) makes them sitting ducks.

-rangers themselves are also pretty squishy. since we don’t have a proper aggro control in the game, u will fall ALOT in dungeons. honestly, squishy classes sld have some passive dodge/evade skills for survuvality…its ridiculous why they dun have that.

-dps’s sub-par to other classes.

-lotsa blocked, invunerable bugs which hinder your atks.

even having all these problems, i still like the playing the ranger. other classes just dun have the same feel to it. hopefully, Anet would fix these problems soon so rangers can become a force to reckon wif!

Reduced base stats, damage output, and control to account for having a pet, and pets CANNOT hit moving targets worth a kitten (read: pvp). In addition, dungeon bosses and mini-bosses will one-hit-kill almost 100% of the pets in the game, leaving you with a class that’s stat-kittened for a mechanic it almost never gets to use.

Okuza.5210:

WhiteBear.6140:

… I don’t quite care about what ppl said about ranger since I enjoy it being one… but after that clip… I think I’ll build myself a new character. now I see how underpowered ranger really are

I just played a Ranger to 80 and they’re not underpowered. I accomplished all the same things with Ranger that I did with my other classes. They are, however, under-exciting. They’re basically born bots. Find where to stand, watch your auto-attack kill it, rinse, repeat.

I do think Ranger has some issues with their group-centric spirit build: the spirits die too easily. In order to make a spirit build work, you have to keep your spirits alive to buff the group. The harder the fight, the less likely the spirits are to live long enough to matter. So, they’re basically buffs for killing trash mobs. The range on the buffs is much too short, too.

Other than spirits, rangers don’t bring anything to a group than the same thing every class brings: dps. OTH, a low skill player with a Ranger won’t bring down a group the way a low skill player with a Warrior will. The war will be face down ALL the time from trying to melee without dodging or circling. The Ranger will be a busy little dps bot the entire time.

Yes true, after trying other jobs I found myself still in love with my ranger, but I can’t help to bring this up, as one of the dps type of job ranger surely not doing the job to the max, I still feel that ranger need a lil boost on base damage or at least cut the skill cool down a lil

i believe anet wanted a nice moving target for people to practice their skills on, they tried that with the moving golem in HotM but it was too predictable and the test group wanted something more… random and real, hence after much consideration the ranger class was made This class was given a pet that cannot hit moving targets, the damage of the ranger themselves are sub par and they have just about no skills that can cause a serious threat to any class ( for a while QZ + SB did but they fixed that quick ). Put a bunch of them in WvW and there you go, a bunch of randomly walking targets that other classes can use to test build viability, skill rotations and even practice dodging on, all without the risk of dying to

but seriously, rangers have been getting ignored…. wait actually we are being baited with false hopes and empty promises about getting our bugs/mechanics fixed and skills improved, then they give us projectile finishers for our underwater weapons and ….. cosmetic buffs to skills that….. well they are still not fixed

so i’m not sure which makes me feel worse, the lack of improvements or the promises that weren’t kept…..

Rangers aren’t TOO bad, but they’ll never be anywhere near Mr. Peters most beloved warriors. It’s so painfully overt he favors that class that it gives me cancer just by being in reading range of the patch notes.

If you want a good class to play just trend with what he is playing. You’ll likely always be on top.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Mostly every class can obtain pets/objects to act as an AoE target. Engineers can place 5 of them. Other examples include Elementals, ambush traps, and clones.

Also, the extra utility skill the pet has isn’t a role, and none of them do anything that other classes can’t do. Most are a simple stun, buff, or condition.

The Ranger gets them at no opportunity cost. I’m surprised that has to be pointed out.

Munrock.3092:

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Mostly every class can obtain pets/objects to act as an AoE target. Engineers can place 5 of them. Other examples include Elementals, ambush traps, and clones.

Also, the extra utility skill the pet has isn’t a role, and none of them do anything that other classes can’t do. Most are a simple stun, buff, or condition.

The Ranger gets them at no opportunity cost. I’m surprised that has to be pointed out.

Technically, having to be a ranger IS an opportunity cost.

Munrock.3092:

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Mostly every class can obtain pets/objects to act as an AoE target. Engineers can place 5 of them. Other examples include Elementals, ambush traps, and clones.

Also, the extra utility skill the pet has isn’t a role, and none of them do anything that other classes can’t do. Most are a simple stun, buff, or condition.

The Ranger gets them at no opportunity cost. I’m surprised that has to be pointed out.

Being a ranger means you give up 50% of your damage dealing potential to have a pet.

The way rangers used to work was that 80% of their damage was from the ranger, 20% from the pet. This still meant ranger damage was lower than other classes, but they were close enough so that good rangers could still manage and the pet was a nice bonus.

Then ANet decided to destroy rangers by making 50% of their damage come from the player and 50% from the pet. Now rangers are a waste of space because they are completely reliant on their pet to do competitive damage.

If this was any other game then it would be fine, because pets are actually pretty reliable in other games. Unfortunately the pets AI in GW2 is a complete mess. It doesn’t matter if pet damage is higher now because if the pets can’t actually hit anything then their DPS is 0.

Why can’t pets hit anything?

• They spend 90% of boss fights being dead because of constant unmitigated AOE damage
• They attack too slow, meaning that if they attack and the target is moving, the attack will miss.
• Pets can’t get close enough to targets to attack, they are useless in WvW because they can’t attack up or walls etc, and ranged pets are almost always obstructed

This makes pets useless in dungeons, they are only useful in solo open PVE because monsters stand still there when they’re attacking the ranger or the pet, monsters never stand still in dungeons.

But even in open world PvE rangers are worthless because a warrior, mesmer, engineer, thief, elementalist, guardian, and maybe even necromancers can kill mobs in half the time a ranger can.

There are 2 ways ANet can fix Rangers

• Allow rangers to do competitive damage without relying on the pet
• Make it so pets are a reliable source of damage by ensuring they can actually hit moving targets and ensuring they don’t die in every fight with an AoE component

The fundamental problem with rangers is that other classes’ class mechanics adds something to their gameplay, while the ranger’s class mechanic, pets, takes away from ranger gameplay.

As detailed in other posts, the ranger is less powerful because part of their “balance” is offloaded into the pet. But the pets are terrible.

Supposedly, Anet made rangers a mandatory pet class so they could focus on making the best possible pet class. But what has that resulted in? How much better is the pet experience over GW1? We get 1 extra control, the F2 button, over what a ranger got in GW1.

Oh, but what about those pet linked utilities? So our utilities are wasted to provide extra functionality to the pet. Where have I seen that before. Could it be GW1, where pets were optional? Yeah, the big complaint in GW1 was you had to use up so many skill slots before pets become useful. And now in GW2, you have to use up utility slots to get any extra functionality out of your pet beyond the F2 key. And even then those abilities are so situational as to be nearly useless.

What’s wrong with rangers? The pet, pure and simple. They way it draws off effectiveness from the player controlled element (the ranger itself), the way that dedicating the class to have a pet has resulted in nothing interesting or new to a pet class.

I’m also kind of surprised people don’t seem to be talking about opportunity cost all that often. But I suppose, opportunity cost is kind of a tricky thing to understand. So, maybe the relationship between opportunity cost and Ranger does need to be fully pointed out.

If you remember energy from the pre-release hype days; you’ll remember there was going to be at third bar between health and endurance called energy, and every skill was going to require a certain amount of energy to execute. But they eventually iterated to balance around opportunity cost instead. That is to say, the game is balanced around the Time it takes for you to do something, and the idea that while you’re doing one thing you can’t be doing another.

As a Ranger you get to mitigate your opportunity costs during combat. It’s kind of like the cousin concept to Thief Initiative, insomuch that they get to casually sidestep the major balancing mechanism of cooldowns for as long as initiative allows, and we get to casually sidestep the major balancing mechanism of opportunity cost for as long as our pet health allows.

If you don’t play to these strengths, understandably, things aren’t going to go so well. A Ranger is pretty awful if you’re not using your multitasking skills to abuse simultaneous action and be in the two places at once, just like how a Thief would be pretty gosh darned awful too if you assigned cooldowns in your head and arbitrarily made yourself obey them. I’m saying, in order to get the most out of the mechanic, you should be trying to do two things at once as often as you can.

Not that this isn’t kind of difficult sometimes, pet survivability in dungeons and WvW really does need to be looked at, pets need to be more threatening in PvP. But that seems like the general idea.

kitai.7638:

i believe anet wanted a nice moving target for people to practice their skills on, they tried that with the moving golem in HotM but it was too predictable and the test group wanted something more… random and real, hence after much consideration the ranger class was made This class was given a pet that cannot hit moving targets, the damage of the ranger themselves are sub par and they have just about no skills that can cause a serious threat to any class ( for a while QZ + SB did but they fixed that quick ). Put a bunch of them in WvW and there you go, a bunch of randomly walking targets that other classes can use to test build viability, skill rotations and even practice dodging on, all without the risk of dying to

but seriously, rangers have been getting ignored…. wait actually we are being baited with false hopes and empty promises about getting our bugs/mechanics fixed and skills improved, then they give us projectile finishers for our underwater weapons and ….. cosmetic buffs to skills that….. well they are still not fixed

so i’m not sure which makes me feel worse, the lack of improvements or the promises that weren’t kept…..

If you watch this, it actually shows rangers pretty handily beating other classes. Still a class that has issues though.

The only time I’ve lost a 1v1 match in wvw with my ranger has been against a very high damage thief that I wasn’t prepared for. Also, a lot of this months wvw monthly kills for me were 1v1s. I’m not suggesting rangers are elite or unbeatable but if you know how to play them they are just as effective as the other classes.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I’m also kind of surprised people don’t seem to be talking about opportunity cost all that often. But I suppose, opportunity cost is kind of a tricky thing to understand. So, maybe the relationship between opportunity cost and Ranger does need to be fully pointed out.

If you remember energy from the pre-release hype days; you’ll remember there was going to be at third bar between health and endurance called energy, and every skill was going to require a certain amount of energy to execute. But they eventually iterated to balance around opportunity cost instead. That is to say, the game is balanced around the Time it takes for you to do something, and the idea that while you’re doing one thing you can’t be doing another.

As a Ranger you get to mitigate your opportunity costs during combat. It’s kind of like the cousin concept to Thief Initiative, insomuch that they get to casually sidestep the major balancing mechanism of cooldowns for as long as initiative allows, and we get to casually sidestep the major balancing mechanism of opportunity cost for as long as our pet health allows.

If you don’t play to these strengths, understandably, things aren’t going to go so well. A Ranger is pretty awful if you’re not using your multitasking skills to abuse simultaneous action and be in the two places at once, just like how a Thief would be pretty gosh darned awful too if you assigned cooldowns in your head and arbitrarily made yourself obey them. I’m saying, in order to get the most out of the mechanic, you should be trying to do two things at once as often as you can.

Not that this isn’t kind of difficult sometimes, pet survivability in dungeons and WvW really does need to be looked at, pets need to be more threatening in PvP. But that seems like the general idea.

The key flaw with your argument is that you have forgotton that opportunity cost is built-in to the ranger. You take a hit to damage just for being a ranger. Other classes can choose their opportunity cost.

The link between iniative and ranger pet is also too far flung, too loose. Try comparing mesmer mechanic with ranger, they are much closer. And here, you can see that a mesmer sacrificies no damage to have a pet that is significantly stronger than a ranger pet in pvp and can also use pets to apply some of the most useful debilitating abilities for pvp. And they can have 2 hard hitting pets out at once.

When talking pet class, mesmer is the king (in pvp). And yet here on the ranger forums we have to defend the inadequacy of the ranger with far flung talk of “opportunity cost” that doesn’t seem to apply to other classes in the same way.

My recommendation to you would be to continue playing. Ranger is hardly lacking. The only major issues are the Pet AI in SOME cases (but all classes have their issues), but that will be fixed.

Majority of the complaints come from people that refuse to simply adapt and get better at the class (just like all other classes), and want everything handed to them (literally, they want EVERYTHING).

There’s nothing wrong with Rangers. Continue playing, and become better than the complainers.

I’ll agree it sounds awfully fluffy talking about it.
It’s so hard to imagine there’s an excel spreadsheet somewhere that hashes something so seemingly ephemeral down into concrete evaluations of whether or not a thing is balanced. Kind of blows my mind, really.

I can’t connect how ‘I think Ranger does less damage than Warrior’ really factors at all into ‘Use your pet to do two things at once’. As far as I understand it, those two concepts have nothing to do with eachother, other than some tongue-in-cheek humor using the same phrase.

Yes, we call them ‘pet classes’, but there’s not all that much meaning in that shared categorization. The mechanics of pets, minions, spirit weapons, illusions, turrets are all different beasts. They don’t offer the same advantages and disadvantages to the player, they don’t force you to make the same choices, you don’t even interact with them in the same way. The common thread in ‘pet’ classes and builds is mostly visual treatment, when you get down to it some of these things are more like AoEs and DoTs than our Pets.

It’s kind of silly if you think about it, calling something the mechanical victor in a visual category based on criteria some folks decided to value over others. It’s like comparing Hallowed Ground and Ice Shards because they’re both blue and naming Elementalist the clearly superior product based on cooldown.

(And no, this is not somebody’s cue to melvin out and painstakingly write up a list of bullet points about how these things differ, I’m exaggerating on purpose).

Not to downplay the fact some things need a fixin’, they do, and I’ve been calling for them too. But the way the common census thinks about balance strikes me as really weird sometimes.

All this “play to your strengths” is a weak argument. The ranger “strength” is supposedly the pet. The pet controls are attack, return, F2, and swap (oh, and occasionally, don’t attack, because you’re in the way). That’s no real control system at all. Its one more control than in GW1.

There’s nothing to learn to play to. Its simply the case a certain amount of ranger effectiveness is siphoned off into the pet (not on a 1 to 1 ratio, obviously, but based on some Anet calculation). But rangers don’t get much back for this, except some crappy controls.

There’s no confusion about abstract opportunity costs or learning to play to ranger strengths. It comes down to a bad pet AI/behavior, a bad/lacking pet control interface, and the resulting weakness of a ranger on its own (because the pet isn’t adding the effectiveness Anet so cleverly thinks it is).

How is ‘play to your strengths’ ever bad advice?

I understand you feel like crossing your arms over your chest and grumbling under your breath while you absentmindedly kick the dirt around. But other than stepping aside and letting you make grand show of it for the developer third party viewer there isn’t a whole lot I can actually do for your discontent.

What exactly are you hoping I’d say?

/edit; eh, not going to type that. can’t assume I know why you’re unhappy.

I have to agree with Joiry on all accounts.

After taking a GW1 Ranger to GWAMM and a GW2 Ranger to endgame, it is clear that the GW1 Ranger has been successfully transplanted into GW2. >:(

Once again, the Ranger has no strong role or identity and the unique skill component (pets and pet skills) is weak, cumbersome, slow, and awkward. And once again, you don’t find groups of PVP or PVE players saying, “Hey guys, we really need to find a Ranger for this group…”

I haven’t heard much of anyone in PvE say that about any class, really.

I get that GW1 ranger must have been this very different thing, and starting up a character with the same class name and finding a difference experience can be kind of disappointing. I can even sympathize up until a point. But the sky isn’t falling, everything isn’t on fire, and ranger is not lost to some gameplay-less vaporware limbo.

This might be pretty new to GW1 players, but for the rest of us the basic structure and control scheme of this class is some pretty standard stuff. This sort of thing is genuinely An Actual Thing That Really Exists which people have been playing as a class mechanic for years and years across dozens of titles.

It’s alright if you don’t like it and you think it’s got some issues, but it is a thing.

Vox – sorry, but I don’t follow you. But if you put the comparison to the GW1 Ranger aside, I think we’re still left with a class that’s undefined and – for group play – largely undesirable.

Earlier in this thread, Rottaran Owain said it well:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Why-is-Ranger-Bad/first#post842587

Sorry, Ranger is epic and awesome and in PvE very Over Powered and amazing.
Anyone who says “Its bad” dont know how to play the class. Because (A) they either are not good at it or (B) never played it.

Vox Hollow.2736:

How is ‘play to your strengths’ ever bad advice?

I understand you feel like crossing your arms over your chest and grumbling under your breath while you absentmindedly kick the dirt around. But other than stepping aside and letting you make grand show of it for the developer third party viewer there isn’t a whole lot I can actually do for your discontent.

What exactly are you hoping I’d say?

Its bad advice if there are not strengths. Or more appropriately, its no advice at all.

I don’t exactly understand your angle Vox. People bring up legitimate points and you just sort of hand wave them away with semi-philosophical language.

Anet said they’d make rangers the premier pet class. A lot of players from GW1 complained, since pets were optional in GW1 (and in fact, poorly implemented). Anet said it was necessary because only by making it the class mechanic could they make a truly good pet class. But, turns out, the pet aspect of rangers is barely different than it was in GW1, basically getting the F2 button and a pet switchout. So what did rangers get for being permanently saddled with a pet – practically nothing, in fact, got combat skills weaker than they had in GW1 relative to other classes because they are supposed to have these awesome new GW2 pets…

Just because a lot of other games offer a similarly poor pet-class experience is no excuse. Furthermore, its kinda a myth of the past several years that rangers are a dedicated pet class. A few popular MMOs do it and suddenly its the only way things have ever been?

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Sorry, Ranger is epic and awesome and in PvE very Over Powered and amazing.
Anyone who says “Its bad” dont know how to play the class. Because (A) they either are not good at it or (B) never played it.

Hah! Reeeeeally? It’s just that simple, huh? You’re talking about playing the Ranger in endgame content, not in Shaemoor, right? Why don’t you set us straight by sharing your builds and telling us all how to properly play the ranger FTW like you?

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Sorry, Ranger is epic and awesome and in PvE very Over Powered and amazing.
Anyone who says “Its bad” dont know how to play the class. Because (A) they either are not good at it or (B) never played it.

Dear “skilled” player, please tell me how the overly simple pet controls can be used “skillfully” to make the pet an actual asset instead of a burden? I hear this so much on the forum, l2p and learn how to use your pet. There’s not much to learn about the pet: attack, retreat, F2.

Dear Players who have issues with Ranger.
Stop relying on your pet. That’s a start.

Pets can help you take agro. you can set traps and tell your pet to come to you, luring enemies to your traps. That’s just 1 example. But seriously there are tons of other strategies that I can come up with, including yourself, if you just read the skills your weapons give you, including your utilities.

I’ll give you 1 example with LongBow and ShortBow with Utility skills combo:
You can start off with LongBow Skill5 to cripple/damage enemy. Then when enemy gets closer, you can Knowckback enemy by using Skill4. Then you can take enemy’s Defense down with Skill3, Giving you the opening to use Skill2 for Lots of damage.
If your pet has agro, You can do this and help your pet take less damage while dealing damage yourself.

Now you can Weapon Swap to ShortBow and use Skill1 for Auto-attks to do damage quicker. If enemy is attking pet, use Skill5 to daze it for a short time. But if enemy is chasing you, Use skill4 to Cripple Enemy and Dodge as your moving. If you run out of stamina and u still have agro, use Skill3 to dodge again, which will also give you Swiftness for quicker movement speed to evade attks with movement. If your pet dies, use F4 to swap your pet.

If enemy is still chasing you after you summoned New pet, Set a Spike Trap and Flaming trap to Damage/Cripple enemy, then swap to LongBow and Knowck enemy back, Take down it’s defense, Deal tons of damage with skill2 and stay on ur toes.

You can use a Utility skill “Forgot name” that helps you get Endurance quicker to dodge faster and it will also roll your backwards. Pretty neat.

This is just 1 example. 1 Strategy. 1 Set.

Sorry if I didnt Name any skills… I cant remember the Skill names by heart. But Only remember the icons and skill#s.. lol

This post is getting too long… Sorry about that!

I don’t see anything there that isn’t evident just from the skill descriptions. Whoa, skill 4 on LB is a knockback? Use that when an enemy gets close – yes, none of us ever figured that out. You don’t think I have my set of skill use patterns I’ve developed based on what I’ve observed seems most effective? Everyone does.

Just because there is a way to maximize the skills given, doesn’t mean that maximization is good compared to other classes.

Also – you can’t ignore your pet. Its the class mechanic. How many other classes ignore their class mechanic? How many of our skills are tied into our pets? Some are even pet-only effects.

Joiry.2504:

I don’t see anything there that isn’t evident just from the skill descriptions. Whoa, skill 4 on LB is a knockback? Use that when an enemy gets close – yes, none of us ever figured that out. You don’t think I have my set of skill use patterns I’ve developed based on what I’ve observed seems most effective? Everyone does.

Just because there is a way to maximize the skills given, doesn’t mean that maximization is good compared to other classes.

Also – you can’t ignore your pet. Its the class mechanic. How many other classes ignore their class mechanic? How many of our skills are tied into our pets? Some are even pet-only effects.

Its not the matter of “Ignoring your pet” its the fact of knowing how to effectivly play the class with and without the pet. If you rely on ur pet when ur pets are dead and F4 is under cooldown, You are done for!

Pets already make us Over powered in PvE because we can have them Tank for us. They dont last long against stronger vets or champions so we can swap them with F4, which again, helps us with holding the monster. But what if your pet dies and F4 is cooldown? Then what?

Part of the class mechanics are the utility and wepaon skills you get that helps you deal “Damage”, helps you stay in “Control” and helps you “Support” yourself to be self effeciant.

so im not saying “Ignore your pet”, Im saying “Learn Not rely on pet. Learn to rely on Weapon skills and utilities as well” because to be honest. The Ranger has some seriously good skills that does the job right.

I know this because I dont just read my skills, but I actually take the time to practise them in different combinations and challenge myself through different strategies with what I got.

Ranger does very well in Damage/Control/Support.
Just as well as other classes I have played.

I have played Warrior, Mesmer, Ranger, Engineer, and Elementalist.
It all boils down to personal playstyle prefferences in how you enjoy playing since all classes are flexable from my experience of playing them.

I played Guardian and Necro and Theif durring Beta events but I cannot comment on those because i dont remember them fully. Nor do I have those lvled as main. So those 3 classes I cannot say about.

I love my Ranger. Love the class and the style. Yes it can use some improvements but as of right now, with how pets work, people just dont play the class to it’s fully capabilities. =(
And that’s a problem

ClaraFee.1293:

I have to agree with Joiry on all accounts.

After taking a GW1 Ranger to GWAMM and a GW2 Ranger to endgame, it is clear that the GW1 Ranger has been successfully transplanted into GW2. >:(

Once again, the Ranger has no strong role or identity and the unique skill component (pets and pet skills) is weak, cumbersome, slow, and awkward. And once again, you don’t find groups of PVP or PVE players saying, “Hey guys, we really need to find a Ranger for this group…”

Well…rangers aside. I can’t think of any group saying "Hey, we need to find ((insert class here)) for any occasion. Doesn’t seem to matter on group ake-up as afar as I can tell.

@Clara
I don’t like being the semantics person. But those aren’t roles, or mechanics, or identities, or aesthetics, or whatever game design word people’re peppering their opinions with these days. That right there is a wide variety of things somebody happens to like about each profession. And it just seems kind of hopeless to try convince somebody to put something they don’t like, on their big list of things they like about stuff. I’m sorry if that seems handwaving-y, but going along with that just seems like an exercise in frustration.

My point was; How a very common mechanic which is accepted as the whole complete package in other games, suddenly be considered a empty cavernous maw of absence and lacking in this one? How can it possibly the be the subject of such broad-sweeping doomsday hysterics?…it just so….normal.

And yeah, it’s okay to be dissapointed Anet didn’t do anything too terribly innovative here. But I don’t know if I think it’s right to go treating lack of anything amazing as lack of something entirely.

@ Joiry
I didn’t say it was Ranger specifically, just the mechanic itself has been around the block a few times. I think the earliest iteration I can remember was called a Beastmaster or a Summoner.

I kind of don’t get your angle either, Joiry.
How can something be legitimate points when you’re talking about something else entirely? Unless you’ve got some really salient arguments for why doing two things at once is specifically a Bad Idea, it just seems like all you did was drag the discussion off onto a tangent because it was a prime opportunity to rattle your saber about the current hot button issue.

Vox Hollow.2736:

@ Joiry
I didn’t say it was Ranger specifically, just the mechanic itself has been around the block a few times. I think the earliest iteration I can remember was called a Beastmaster or a Summoner.

I kind of don’t get your angle either, Joiry.
How can something be legitimate points when you’re talking about something else entirely? Unless you’ve got some really salient arguments for why doing two things at once is specifically a Bad Idea, it just seems like all you did was drag the discussion off onto a tangent because it was a prime opportunity to rattle your saber about the current hot button issue.

The question is, why are rangers bad? So, some people argue why, and others why not. I don’t see how the pet isn’t going to be a huge part of that discussion – given its the class mechanic. And if it is the case the class mechanic is the problem, then why not dissect its issues. How is that dragging anything off topic.

Your advice was to basically not “cross my arms and grumble under my breath” – how is that adding anything other than as a backhanded personal slight?

The basic argument going on here, as in pretty much every other thread is: group 1: ranger has flaws X,Y,Z; group 2: learn 2 play noobs! Rarely, if ever, are the X,Y,Z points really addressed by group 2.

Sure, as I tried to explain to the other poster, its true, you can learn to maximize the abilities you have. But that doesn’t mean the best those abilities can do is on par with other classes. My three most played characters are all the adventurer type: thief, engineer, ranger. Ranger is the one I most philosophically/aesthetically/etc like, but is my least played of those and is definitely the least effective.