Guild Wars 2

How did Anet take a good class like Ranger from GW1 and screw them up so badly in GW2? I just don’t get it. Nearly all, no I take that back ALL of the ranger skills that mattered are gone. No Apply Poison Arrows, No Burning Arrow, No Crippling shot, No Trappers, No throw dirt, No nothing!

I’m trying and I’m trying so so so very hard to give this game a shot after a year of playing it off and on and maining my Ranger. I’ve taken her through dungeons, PVP, tried different traits but this class seems so half baked. I also noticed other rangers having the same issues.

You don’t have enough armor and you don’t make enough power. The two never balance out. You have weak armor and poor power so you need to spam whatever attacks you’re using and keep your distance otherwise you just go down. In WvsW don’t even try to solo because you wont make it when a Thief catches you and just drains your life like it’s no big deal.

It doesn’t matter what weapons you use it’s like nothing truly works well enough for a ranger. If you use Melee weapons it’s a death wish. Damage is a little bit faster but your weak armor will get you killed so you spam heal when you can. The healing is NEVER fast enough and you just go down again and again and again.

Arrows are supposed to be key when playing a ranger and it’s like Anet took all the worst skills from GW1 and forces you to play with them. These arrow skills SUCK! They’re useless and they don’t do enough damage. The short bow is the most effective in pvp because it’s faster but it’s no real advantage. I was thinking that Anet thought giving rangers a Pet would be a 50/50 deal. A weaker character but you have a pet as an advantage. Let me say this, these pets are garbage. They aren’t strong enough to down a player or even an NPC by themselves. They are mostly just “condition” appliers and aggro collectors. They are not effective in combat. A rangers pet is only dangerous to another ranger with weak armor. If your targeting one player and some of the nearby wild like decides to get in your way Guess what!? You’re pet will leave your target and chase the Doe or Moose or whatever just bumped into you and you’ll be fighting for your life until you retarget your pet to have a “slightly” improved chance of winning.

There’s a clear unbalance between the class and other classes like Spell casters and Melee classes. You can main these and lead a battle. Ranger is just a support class for the other classes. You can’t main a ranger and lead anything because you’re not strong enough. Your job is to stand back and shoot arrows from a safe distance and that’s what I hate the most about this class. That’s what makes it weak.

As soon as a melee class gets you up close you’re going down, as soon as a caster hits you with a few good spells your down. You don’t have any defense and you don’t have any offense. Traps are just an annoyance just like the weak arrows. It takes so much work and strategy to kill another player class as a ranger and that shouldn’t be. Lay traps here, lure player there, use pet special here, keep distance here. IT’S ANNOYING! and if another player comes along you’re screwed.

There was nothing wrong with Ranger in GW1 I don’t get why they had to destroy them completely and leave their best moves behind. I only played Ranger,Assassin, and Dervish in GW1 for years. When I play GW2 it just makes me want to play GW1 because I feel like the Ranger is missing so much. I can’t speak for the others they are no longer in the game. People tell me to make another class but why? Why do I have to choose a “BETTER” class to work around the problems of the class I want to play? Anet should be able to see the data from Rangers by now to know that they are WEAK and need improvements in many areas. Ranger IS NOT the jack of all trades class they tried to make it to be. It’s a weak support class that does little damage and has poor defense.

and I know I sound like I’m just ranting but I’m not. I like the idea of being a ranger and I want this class to be decent for once. I don’t want to reroll anything. I just want to log in and play ranger. I keep playing around with as much as I can to improve it with as little as Anet gives you but this class just does not work. The traits are ridiculous, the skills are ridiculous. They are not helpful! There’s skills/traits that you use that should be standard because you’re dead without having them equipped and all you folks that play ranger know what I’m talking about.

There’s so many things in this game that would make playing ranger more fun. Give us Pin Down, let us use poison, or burning arrows or penetrating arrows like we did in GW1 to drain enemies. What good is a knockback when a player can get right back up in 2 seconds and stomp your face in while your only defense ability is now on cool down. I mean you have to WORK and I do mean WORK! to take someone down as a ranger and when they finally go down it’s a relief. That should not be! Every battle shouldn’t be a “cross your fingers and hope to win”. Also why don’t rangers have blind? What happened to “Throw dirt” or a blocking stance? Give us weak armor but at least give us the ability to reduce the possibility of being injured. If I have Paper mache armor at least give us a fighting chance to avoid being hit.

Rangers need improved Armor or defense abilities
or they need improved power and offense abilities

5% chance to bleed and 2% chance to cripple and all that other nonsense is not helping this class. Yes Rangers are fun to play in PVE, they’re okay in dungeons as long as you let the more powerful classes do their jobs and stand back at a safe distance, but their flaws are show out highly in PVP when you’re paired up against the other classes and the difference is highly apparent.

I just don’t get why Anet has not figured out that this class needs an overhaul to balance them out better. Sure people can get “decent” results in PVP and PVE (which isn’t as noticeable as a problem) with a ranger using some “awkward” 1 out of a million build BUT WHY? Why go through the extremes of playing a class the way you don’t want too just to make it somewhat competitive. That right there shows there’s a clear issue with the ranger design that needs improvement.

As for me personally after playing Assassin for years and being ridiculed in PVE and PVP as my beloved class being “useless” in both and not a crowd favorite like Ele’s,Necro’s,Mesmers, Monks, Warriors, etc. I’m just feeling deja vu with Rangers in GW2. This class used to be so much better but now it’s watered down garbage.

I’m trying so hard to get into the game coming from GW1 but stuff like this does not make it enjoyable seeing a good class destroyed.

and I know my little post is going to get 2 types of responses. New players that have never previously played a Ranger and not knowing what this class used to be saying “What do you mean Ranger is great” and old players that realize “It’s not what it used to be” and the 3rd type of player the guy that says "I’ll put up with the class even though it’s at a disadvantage and use “insert random build here that may be more successful but not necessarily fun to play” as a work around to get the results I desire.

The bottom line is that this class feels half baked and either you’ll get “used” to playing harder than you should (don’t confuse that with skill) or you’ll reroll one of the winning classes that have better balance for what you want to do.

One thing I have noticed is that people I meet that play Ranger usually stick to PVE and use a caster or melee class like Guardian for WvsW or PVP. As with the first GuildWars it seems casters are the dominant class in this game as well.

There are so many things wrong with this post. If you are still losing to a thief as a ranger I don’t know what to say. We really do have all the utilities to beat them.

The only thieves that beat me are well-played ones, but that is because I am not a very good ranger. I have personally seen GREAT rangers defeat GREAT thieves on more than one occasion.

The only thing wrong with this class right now is the pet. Everyone will agree with that and every day we try to make anet listen. Other than that, this is a great class, with great builds that are really effective.

If you are talking about GvG, then all medium armor professions have a lot of problems right now with 20v20 or 10v10 matchups. Thieves and engineers struggle to find a role in a 10v10 or 20v20 too right now. I don’t GvG a lot so I do not know why that is a reason, but I think it’s because currently in the games state, the Heavy and Light professions bring far too much group utility when comapared to the Medium professions.

^You dont seem to realize how easy thieves down rangers, do I have have to scan the warrior and thief and forums to find post calling the class bad? Do I have to start taking videos so you can see?

We all cant be top players ok?

What I have realized during my time in WvW is that most rangers CANNOT play Glasscannon, The build that is required to play to do the highest direct damage possible. (even then it sucks, pet is part of your damage)

I bunker or trap on my ranger….always… thieves are a bit easier that way and its makes them kitten there pants. With the current meta you have to be a bit smarter but meh.

Bunker or become super good with glasscannon and still go down easy your choice.
Anet has declared this with the silent action.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

GW1 did have plenty of things that only 1 profession could do well. For example, rangers were the only ones who could bring survivability, splitting ability, long range, interrupts and heavy health degeneration all on one bar in PvP. Expertise and the high cost of bow skills mean that a secondary profession couldn’t pull it off. After the dervish rework, they were similar in many ways…my PvP dervish build (before they nerfed the kitten out of onslaught) had good healing, toughness, mobility and, best of all, strong condition and hex removal. No other martial class could do that.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Guild Wars 1 ranger has no successor in this game.

That is all.

The only place for glasscannon Ranger in WvW is at the back of a zerg with 1500 range, piercing arrows and hope that noone comes after you. Using bear pets on passive with Protect Me to help you get out of sticky situations (which you should always avoid). Also greatsword for swoop together with Signet of the Hunt to always be able to catch up to any zerg.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJATxmIVkFkglBg1j96LwmiMtkpwQGTZVXZNVA-jEyAYrARWAoPQJviox2GKiGraBTVSEV7NKiWNA-w

QueenHysteria.1084:

And I know I sound like I’m just ranting but I’m not. I like the idea of being a ranger and I want this class to be decent for once. I don’t want to reroll anything. I just want to log in and play ranger. I keep playing around with as much as I can to improve it with as little as Anet gives you but this class just does not work. The traits are ridiculous, the skills are ridiculous. They are not helpful! There’s skills/traits that you use that should be standard because you’re dead without having them equipped and all you folks that play ranger know what I’m talking about.

I know I sound like I’m harping on about it sometime, but I’m similar to you, I just want to log in and do my Ranger stuff, I only have a Ranger, will only ever have a Ranger, so I want to feel that I can go to any part of the game and pull my weight, not rely on others to carry me.

With the new stuff that’s being added the pet is even more useless, there is zero chance they will ever get the pet right, it’s supposed to be a class mechanic and it’s dead 90% of the time, or dashing about confused.

Our damage is low, and survivability low.

Some insist we keep the pet and go on about synergy, meta, and words I don’t think they understand, or micro manage, if they want to keep the pet that’s fine, give other’s the option.

Personally I’m sick of seeing my pet hobbling around twisted and bent, on cool down so I can’t swop it.

So yeah +10 to the OP.

Your post is very intriguing to me QueenHysteria. I play a ranger and I myself feel happy with how it is, mainly because I never played GW1 and I do not understand the gap between that ranger and today’s ranger. Personally I like how my ranger feels, but I totally agree in the fact that it’s not perfect, and it’s not what you would normally expect from a ranger profession going into it. My friend who played GW1 and recently got his ranger to 80, as his first profession, admits that GW2 ranger is very kitten. In my opinion, I guess it all can come down to how you play, what works for you and what does not. Ranger has always been my preferred profession throughout games, and I have come to make my ranger a very efficient killing machine, but that is only because of how I play it.

Perhaps one day they will make all the traits and skills more helpful and they will make it so that everything ties in together better. It took a ton of time to master the ranger and I felt that was unnecessary, it could have simply been easier to know what to do, rather than being frustrated for many months until AH! I figured it out. My suggestion is, try to live with it if you can. When I feel that those negative thoughts are coming my way, I just go into WvW and start killing all the solo thieves I can find, then I feel 100% good about playing a ranger :-)

I think ranger is both hard to see what the good builds are and hard to play making warrior or thief more popular choices for most players. Ranger is a skill profession.

The class is not “so terrible” and you can achieve well with it, but it require a lot more reflexion than some other.

The main problems of the ranger class is the pet totally broken and the traits who are for a lot useless…and the fact than others class can do better ranged damage than us.

When i see a thief on shortbow with me on shortbow, i cry…

I know I’ve had my own fair share of ranger complaints too. But the class is good. We just need a few patches on the gimmicky pet AI and some rework on a couple of the traits~ maybe some of the shout skills too. I just hope they don’t nerf vigorous renewal +healing spring next patch

Honestly the vigorous renewal change had me a bit perplexed.

Spvpers are complaining that evades are too OP I guess.
My current build is able to get around 6s of vigor per pulse (perma vigor if i stay inside my healing spring.

By the way, rangers were represented as 23% of the players in MLG, higher than any other class. Certainly this isn’t the result of a poorly balanced weak class. I think your frustration is coming from you not wanting to improve and find things that work, rather than you making an effort to adapting to the gw2 ranger.

Ryan.9387:

By the way, rangers were represented as 23% of the players in MLG, higher than any other class. Certainly this isn’t the result of a poorly balanced weak class. I think your frustration is coming from you not wanting to improve and find things that work, rather than you making an effort to adapting to the gw2 ranger.

Outside spvp, they are a little more difficult to play effectively. I wouldn’t base the ranger class on spvp coz nobody cares about spvp. Most people play this game for pve and wvw.

Eg.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mlg-guild-wars-2-invitational-tournament-on-september-27/

13 FB likes, 3 tweets, 5 shares. And like a thousand views for the video? Things like this makes me wonder why Anet wants to push spvp into MLG. They’ve been ruining bigger parts of the game by balancing around spvp and refusing to split the balancing by gametype.

The simple problem is that there isn’t a single thing that the ranger is best at. Anything and everything a ranger can do can be done better by other professions. Especially amongst this are the things that people expect rangers to be best at, such as bows.

The main challenge rangers have is getting ANet to realise the mess they have made of the profession. All can be fixed but ANet are doing a really bad job these days.

awge.3852:

Your post is very intriguing to me QueenHysteria. I play a ranger and I myself feel happy with how it is, mainly because I never played GW1 and I do not understand the gap between that ranger and today’s ranger. Personally I like how my ranger feels, but I totally agree in the fact that it’s not perfect, and it’s not what you would normally expect from a ranger profession going into it. My friend who played GW1 and recently got his ranger to 80, as his first profession, admits that GW2 ranger is very kitten. In my opinion, I guess it all can come down to how you play, what works for you and what does not. Ranger has always been my preferred profession throughout games, and I have come to make my ranger a very efficient killing machine, but that is only because of how I play it.

Perhaps one day they will make all the traits and skills more helpful and they will make it so that everything ties in together better. It took a ton of time to master the ranger and I felt that was unnecessary, it could have simply been easier to know what to do, rather than being frustrated for many months until AH! I figured it out. My suggestion is, try to live with it if you can. When I feel that those negative thoughts are coming my way, I just go into WvW and start killing all the solo thieves I can find, then I feel 100% good about playing a ranger :-)

I mained a ranger in GW1 and i play ranger sometimes in GW2. Between GW1 and GW2 none of the classes are the same, even the mechanism changed. I think the op want something else that he call ranger… Well I think he want an Archer.

I really loved my ability to pull carefully mobs in GW1 and that’s something that won’t ever exist in GW2. But, what I love in GW2 is my resilience as a ranger. Our real strengh is that our pet can cope for our weakness. There are tanky pets, support pets, dps pets… Once you understand how to keep them alive, ranger begin to be really enjoyable.

However, I don’t think that’s an answer someone wanting to play an archer will accept.

So I’ll just say that :

Ranger in GW2 ain’t an Archer

The ranger profession is like Al Bundy in real life. The ones who like him will stick with him through thick and thin, the ones who don’t just see a pathetic loser. I’m suspecting this was intended so by ANet. You gotta have someone to look down on. Who would you feel OP compared to, right?

In GW1 my main was a mesmer, and my secondary was a ranger. I loved them both.

In GW2 my main is a ranger and my secondary is a mesmer. Neither has anything in common with the professions in GW1, but I still love them both.

The OP is not wrong, but alas some my favorite things are simply done different these days. Combo fields are replacing things like burning and poison arrows, and a lot of our interrupt utility was stolen by the thieves it seems.

I miss being the controller on the battlefield. I miss the feeling of mwahahaha when you interrupted someone (not chance that I mained mesmer and ranger back then). I don’t get that now, the whole subset of skills just doesn’t exist in the same way. I miss them.

But does it ruin the game for me? No.

I have got other things instead, my close combat touch ranger is suddenly an integral part of the build rather than something you force him into, and I can use so many kinds of pets. Yes, the AI needs some serious work, but I love being able to switch it up.

My illusionary weapon mesmer build which was kind of kitten back in the old days is suddenly viable, and I have a rapier. A rapier <3. Yes, conditions and confusion really need some fine tuning again, but I like the core.

So I really miss the old GW1 professions, but this is not GW1. I love this style of gameplay a lot more, and I am having a lot more fun with it. Besides, it wasn’t until Elona that I felt that GW1 really took off, so I’ll give anet a few years to iron out the kinks.

“At one point in development, according to The Making of Guild Wars 2 book, the ranger profession of the original Guild Wars was split into many different professions, notably the warden and the marksman. Eventually, with only marksman remaining, who only possessed only the aspect of ranged weaponry, was combined with already scrapped elements of warden and beastmaster, and renamed the result as ranger for the sake of the original series.”

And hence, the ranger class was pooped out at the last minute. This may be why a lot of people feel that this class is messy and gimmicky.

After playing ranger for 3 years in GW1 (too lazy and check exact time) and over 2,5k hours in GW2, I disagree with your post.

And I’m also too lazy to even explain why. I did it sooo many times on this forum.

This is purely a learn to play issue.

I’m gonna have to disagree with you too. I’ve got a level 80 zerk warrior and a level 80 guardian, but my favorite class right now is the ranger. I’m running a mix of assassin’s and zerker gear and I usually use sword/dagger and shortbow. I take dagger just for the extra evade skill even though I lose some dps not using warhorn. The extra “oh kitten” button is nice. Also grabbed the trait with 50 percent extra stamina regen. With this build I do a good amount of dps and have good survivability because only very very rarely am I without some way to dodge. Most importantly I enjoy playing it, I love how active and involved combat is because with all the evades I can stay in melee more and only switch to ranged when I need to heal up. It’s fun.

Eurantien.4632:

This is purely a learn to play issue.

After 1473 hours on my GW2 Ranger and 6 or 7 years on my GW1 Ranger, you’ll have to do better than an answer like that.

You can’t just come here and say it’s a ltp issue, for all we know your poncing around in Queensdale all the time.

Try reading some of the posts, people who have played Rangers for many hours, experienced Rangers, Rangers who have played Rangers in other mmo’s. no no ltp is a shoddy cop out answer.

Terkov.4138:

After playing ranger for 3 years in GW1 (too lazy and check exact time) and over 2,5k hours in GW2, I disagree with your post.

And I’m also too lazy to even explain why. I did it sooo many times on this forum.

You can play ranger for 3 years I played Ranger for 5 (and still do to this day). Time has no meaning it’s about what you do while you’re playing. From PVE to PVP there was never a downside to that class. It was strong all around but you actually played like a ranger making use of your bow attacks and keeping your distance from your enemies. If you ever seen how Rangers played JQ that’s a perfect example of how the class should be used.

You can’t play like that in GW2 because you don’t have the skills needed to play like a ranger. You just don’t have that here in GW2 it’s a complete tear down and build up of something that was never broke to begin with. Ranger went from a class that did all things well to a class that can only do certain things well under the right conditions. That’s what I’m getting at. You mainly have a barrage of weak bow attacks that you spam that don’t necessarily do nearly enough damage. I can only describe most ranger battles with a bow like shooting a slingshot at a tank.

My post (and I thank you all for reading) wasn’t about agree or disagree it’s just about the observations of the gap between this class and the others. I like playing ranger I think it’s fun but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize the disadvantages and how “useless” a lot of the traits they give this class are. Take for example I think it’s “Wilderness survival..Or Skirmishing?” one of those where one trait if you select it lets you toss traps and they’re 50% larger… WHY? Why is something like that a selectable trait when it should be standard to the skill. The usefulness of them is cut down severely without this and lives you spending time trying to lure people into a tiny area so your traps will work. Most of the time they just walk around them because the trap zone so small.

Other skills like “Protect Me” Why? Why is that a selectable skill that you need to waste a slot on? If you die so does your pet (well they disappear) So why don’t they just automatically protect you when you’re about to die. All their other skills are automatic? Except the bonus effect skill.

They drastically changed this class from GW1. There’s no such thing as a Trapper, Burner, Interrupter, or Poisoner, any more. The freedom of choice is removed from you on how you play ranger so you pick a ranger not to play as one. As most of the superior PVP builds are cast out the usage of bows. If you can’t even man the weapon you were originally designed too what does that say?

Then I forgot to mention earlier about the “Ranger Elite Skills”. I haven’t played any other classes except my ranger and it’s like of all things your useful Elite skill is Healing or Entangling. Why? On a class that has such weak offense why are the elite skills defensive? I don’t know why not have the ability to summon an Oak Heart to fight for you for a few seconds, Or Leeching Vines that entangle your enemy and give their health to you. Just something to compensate for the lack of offense this class has.

I find it astounding, that even over a year after the game is released, people are still complaining that the Ranger doesn’t play like in Guild Wars 1. Maybe if you’d actually try to accept the Ranger for what it is, you might come to like it, instead of hoping that ArenaNet eventually turns the GW2 Ranger into a GW1 Ranger clone.

It’s ‘terrible’ because it’s vanilla.

It does a most/all of things you’d expect, but it does them in a dull grey hum-drum, checkboxes out of a committee fashion.

The only thing ANet did with the class that is innovative is the spirits build, and that’s the build to watch in sPvP, basically the only thing they do that’s exciting. Ok, I kind of like the animal imagery on the greatsword attacks too. That got my pulse up a little the first few times I saw them .

Rangers need excitement laced through everything they do. More ghostly animals on my weapon attacks. More utilities that make me stop and ponder how I can wrap a whole build around that. More pay off for plotting and scheming and theory-crafting till I just have to go out and get one more set of armor and a new bundle of runes to see if I can squeeze some actual awesome out of my ranger.

Excellent post mate. Rangers suck kitten big time. Ive been playing since day one my main is a ranger and since then they have been nerfed over and over. Even my healy guardian with 2.2k attak can own them. anytime i see a ranger in wvw i go straight for the ez kill.
my first char was a ranger and even now i managed to get with 3.4 atk and 3.6 armor and 24k hp it still sucks. it used to be so fun playing with it but now 100’s of builds later several exotic sets in bank waiting for the day anet pull their finger out and re roll and improve the class. it just sits on the login menu kitten. Every patch they kitten the ranger and buff the thief so guess what i made? now i own all rangers. they are the ez kill for me now.
Shame it got to this cause i did enjoy the class. but compared to any other class its weak as ****!

btw i saw this for an ele and thought it applied to rangers too thats why i changed!!

QueenHysteria.1084:

In WvsW don’t even try to solo because you wont make it when a Thief catches you and just drains your life like it’s no big deal.

Stopped reading there. You obviously have no clue what you’re talking about and just crying. I’ve seen videos of rangers taking on groups of 4-5 people, getting a kill and run away. (And it didn’t took me long to find the videos also). Change spec/playstyle or simply class.

:)

The reason Rangers are widely emarginated is because, even though the class needs a major buff to be on par with the others, there is this “elite” of rangers who would claim it’s all a l2p issue even if the class dealt 1dmg per shot – they probably think picking off someone in WvW while he’s fighting another person means they are all leet and pro.
It’s a bit irritating to have an UP class’ community to pretend they are good instead of demanding much needed changes.

Pet mechanics and most skills are too easy to avoid or counter.
Longbow’s Rapid Fire is more powerful – per se – than Warrior’s killshot; yet Killshot actually kills people sometimes, Rapid Fire is lucky to get 5k damage in with a longer channel attached to it.
Pets are nowhere close to what they should be in regards of AI behavior and practicity either.

But as long as the Ranger community refuses to admit these issues, nothing will change.
I used to feel bad for stomping Rng’s so easily in tPvP and WvW, but after reading this forum and hearing the whole theatrical act of “we’re fine r-really” I don’t feel bad anymore.
You deserve to be weak if you don’t work for changing.

So your logic is that because (literally) 7 people on the forums don’t mind where ranger is but 100,000 think it needs help, anet listens to the vocal 7?

Your first mistake is thinking that ANET devs seriously consider profession forums for balance. They clearly use data, watch film of pro games, and do analytics. You have to be reasonable.

STOOOO.2681:

Excellent post mate. Rangers suck kitten big time. Ive been playing since day one my main is a ranger and since then they have been nerfed over and over. Even my healy guardian with 2.2k attak can own them. anytime i see a ranger in wvw i go straight for the ez kill.
my first char was a ranger and even now i managed to get with 3.4 atk and 3.6 armor and 24k hp it still sucks. it used to be so fun playing with it but now 100’s of builds later several exotic sets in bank waiting for the day anet pull their finger out and re roll and improve the class. it just sits on the login menu kitten. Every patch they kitten the ranger and buff the thief so guess what i made? now i own all rangers. they are the ez kill for me now.
Shame it got to this cause i did enjoy the class. but compared to any other class its weak as ****!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

btw i saw this for an ele and thought it applied to rangers too thats why i changed!!

I saw this a long time ago and still love it. In thieves defense the combo they use is hard to execute.

Combo: Steal, Backstab 2222222222222 or Steal, Backstab 1111112111111

Chopps.5047:

So your logic is that because (literally) 7 people on the forums don’t mind where ranger is but 100,000 think it needs help, anet listens to the vocal 7?

Your first mistake is thinking that ANET devs seriously consider profession forums for balance. They clearly use data, watch film of pro games, and do analytics. You have to be reasonable.

If people are able to do stuff (and there are more than enough), then everyone should be able to do it as well. There is no “pro player, I can’t reach anywhere near that” in this game. The game mechanics are simple. You have 10 skills only, with a weapon swap. There is no gear gap at all. And you have to go through 80 levels to learn your class. I would kinda understand this in a game where there is huge gear gap and skillset, where you don’t stand a chance no matter how good you are. But having this issue here is …

So obviously you are doing something wrong if you can’t solo anything in WvW.

PS: I’m not saying that the ranger does not need buff in PvE, I’m referring to doom n gloom posts about EVERYTHING.

STOOOO.2681:

Excellent post mate. Rangers suck kitten big time. Ive been playing since day one my main is a ranger and since then they have been nerfed over and over. Even my healy guardian with 2.2k attak can own them. anytime i see a ranger in wvw i go straight for the ez kill.
my first char was a ranger and even now i managed to get with 3.4 atk and 3.6 armor and 24k hp it still sucks. it used to be so fun playing with it but now 100’s of builds later several exotic sets in bank waiting for the day anet pull their finger out and re roll and improve the class. it just sits on the login menu kitten. Every patch they kitten the ranger and buff the thief so guess what i made? now i own all rangers. they are the ez kill for me now.
Shame it got to this cause i did enjoy the class. but compared to any other class its weak as ****!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

btw i saw this for an ele and thought it applied to rangers too thats why i changed!!

I saw this a long time ago and still love it. In thieves defense the combo they use is hard to execute.

Combo: Steal, Backstab 2222222222222 or Steal, Backstab 1111112111111

Chopps.5047:

I think ranger is both hard to see what the good builds are and hard to play making warrior or thief more popular choices for most players. Ranger is a skill profession.

Chopps, you know I have great respect for you and your work and I also truly believe you are a great Ranger player,
yet sometimes you are just full of kitten …

How can it be an argument that Ranger is a ‘skill’ profession?
Mesmers e.g. are also not very easy to play and neither are (if you want to go beyond 222222) Thiefs, Engineers or Staff Elementalists. Ever tried a full glass Warrior or Guardian?
Can it be the purpose of a class to have to spent 3000 hours of playtime into it to simply be SO GOOD that you can triumph over others simply by your advantage of experience?
If GW2 has a Rock/Paper/Scissors/ PvP system, ranger is Paper/Paper/Paper, and when ever you want to do something different you have to fold the Paper to become either a Blade or a Shield … and that doesnt change anything about it falling to pieces when it gets wet ….
Rangers just aren’t naturally excelling at anything.

Ryan.9387:

By the way, rangers were represented as 23% of the players in MLG, higher than any other class. Certainly this isn’t the result of a poorly balanced weak class. I think your frustration is coming from you not wanting to improve and find things that work, rather than you making an effort to adapting to the gw2 ranger.

Thats only because 22% of people are idiots and the remaining 1% is debating on these forums.
No seriously:
with Ranger in GW2 its a bit like it was in World of Warcraft: It’s a pet class with a lot of self-sustain, which makes it convinient to get around in the world. So its very attractive for casual gamers that prefer playing by themselves rather than participating in the competetive aspects of the game.
And those kind of people are perfectly fine with the class and its balancing, since they a) dont give a kitten about it or
b) dont have reason to complain since ranger IS one of the smoothest solo PvE classes.

Gorath.5076:

Chopps.5047:

I think ranger is both hard to see what the good builds are and hard to play making warrior or thief more popular choices for most players. Ranger is a skill profession.

Chopps, you know I have great respect for you and your work and I also truly believe you are a great Ranger player,
yet sometimes you are just full of kitten …

How can it be an argument that Ranger is a ‘skill’ profession?
Mesmers e.g. are also not very easy to play and neither are (if you want to go beyond 222222) Thiefs, Engineers or Staff Elementalists. Ever tried a full glass Warrior or Guardian?
Can it be the purpose of a class to have to spent 3000 hours of playtime into it to simply be SO GOOD that you can triumph over others simply by your advantage of experience?
If GW2 has a Rock/Paper/Scissors/ PvP system, ranger is Paper/Paper/Paper, and when ever you want to do something different you have to fold the Paper to become either a Blade or a Shield … and that doesnt change anything about it falling to pieces when it gets wet ….
Rangers just aren’t naturally excelling at anything.

Ryan.9387:

By the way, rangers were represented as 23% of the players in MLG, higher than any other class. Certainly this isn’t the result of a poorly balanced weak class. I think your frustration is coming from you not wanting to improve and find things that work, rather than you making an effort to adapting to the gw2 ranger.

Thats only because 22% of people are idiots and the remaining 1% is debating on these forums.
No seriously:
with Ranger in GW2 its a bit like it was in World of Warcraft: It’s a pet class with a lot of self-sustain, which makes it convinient to get around in the world. So its very attractive for casual gamers that prefer playing by themselves rather than participating in the competetive aspects of the game.
And those kind of people are perfectly fine with the class and its balancing, since they a) dont give a kitten about it or
b) dont have reason to complain since ranger IS one of the smoothest solo PvE classes.

+1

EDIT: I’ve mained ranger for a long time and still troll the forums to see if there are any good builds because im honestly lost lol.

If rangers are so terrible, then why do I still see a lot of them roaming in T1/T2 with full Apoc and getting plenty of kills?

I admit we have our problems, but we are not this in this absolutely terrible state that most people make us out as.

And I mean come on, at least we as a profession were a part of the fastest speed clear of CoF! That has to hold some weight somewhere!

Ryan.9387:

By the way, rangers were represented as 23% of the players in MLG, higher than any other class. Certainly this isn’t the result of a poorly balanced weak class. I think your frustration is coming from you not wanting to improve and find things that work, rather than you making an effort to adapting to the gw2 ranger.

MLG scene is the the GW2 scene. That is a controlled environment with capped stats and what not.

Decklan.7540:

If rangers are so terrible, then why do I still see a lot of them roaming in T1/T2 with full Apoc and getting plenty of kills?

because ( at lest in European T1 roaming) its a lot of mindless Zerging and 50 vs 50 Head bashing and most players you will meet on your own are specced for large scale combat with lots of sustain and no burst damage making them easy targets for condi heavy BM bunkers. And ask Xsorus & Co., they will tell you that even Regen Rangers get their kitten kicked from time to time by a CC Warrior or good Thief.

Decklan.7540:

I admit we have our problems, but we are not this in this absolutely terrible state that most people make us out as.

And I mean come on, at least we as a profession were a part of the fastest speed clear of CoF! That has to hold some weight somewhere!

well that News hasn’ t become viral, cause I ve repetitevly been kicked from dungeon groups for refusing to bring my Mesmer or Guardian.

1. pet is so stupid that even dredge are pure genius to ranger pet ..
2. lack of condition removal .. 1 signet what removes 1 condition per 10 seconds is a joke ..healing spring got nerfed to hell so its unless in zerg or dungeons its pretty useless ..
3. bows are still pure crap especially LB, target within range is out of range just because target runs sideways.. unless target stays you can use bow just for making fireplace not talking about broken obstructed when shooting trough long time dead yaks, air etc..
4. rampage as one is broken .. even with all its stability you get hammered by warrior /guardian, so except this skill no other stability.. 120s cd without traits a joke
5 awful cc skills ..one point blank shot which love to miss targets and gs 4 which don’t hit critical if target has stability and don’t block hundred blades
6. entangle is completely luck based and has very long activation.
7. pet f2 works when pet is not moving and if pet is in good mood
8.pet is stupid
9.pet is stupid
10.pet is stupid
11.pet is stupid
12.pet is stupid
if devs could make super accurate super smart and super strong mesmer illusion why such a dumb pet ? not speaking about thieves elite thief duo ..

ranger get plenty of kills just because he get lucky to met dumb enemies and barrage is good for farming badges .. if you crash with someone who has at least bit of skill one mistake and ranger is back on waypoint .. this is only class whose one mistake is penalized by death well maybe for necro too he is walking bullseye

I have a ranger and a thief.
It takes me 3 key strokes to take 40-70% of someones HP with thief,
To do that with ranger i need over 10 seconds, swap weapons and get lucky.

Ranger sacrifices traits, utilities and buffs to make the pet worth something, and they dont give anything back.

I’m hoping Oct 15th patch will fix some of the issues we have been having, specially with the kittenty sword autoattack.

Heiltdo.2891:

I have a ranger and a thief.
It takes me 3 key strokes to take 40-70% of someones HP with thief,
To do that with ranger i need over 10 seconds, swap weapons and get lucky.

Ranger sacrifices traits, utilities and buffs to make the pet worth something, and they dont give anything back.

I’m hoping Oct 15th patch will fix some of the issues we have been having, specially with the kittenty sword autoattack.

oct 15th, dont get to happy remeber!

the only place where ranger is at least a bit good is water combat but the’ve taken lake from www so no more fun for ranger and no free kills of stupid mesmers warriors eles and other not broken classes who realized too late that that they will not win and trying swim to shore..
one thing I got hit by mesmer smoke bomb for 8.9k while having 2.7k armor ..wtf … I thought they fixed that crap..

Heiltdo.2891:

I have a ranger and a thief.
It takes me 3 key strokes to take 40-70% of someones HP with thief,
To do that with ranger i need over 10 seconds, swap weapons and get lucky.

Ranger sacrifices traits, utilities and buffs to make the pet worth something, and they dont give anything back.

I’m hoping Oct 15th patch will fix some of the issues we have been having, specially with the kittenty sword autoattack.

Having 30 points to BM is a huge dps and survivability boost to your pet, and a very good survivability/healing to the player.

Anyways, reading these forums, I get the impression that 90% of the rangers going to either pvp or pve with 0 BM traits, glass cannon builds, and typical Longbow/shortbow. Well no surprise why you guys get massacred by anyone.

Chopps.5047:

So your logic is that because (literally) 7 people on the forums don’t mind where ranger is but 100,000 think it needs help, anet listens to the vocal 7?

Your first mistake is thinking that ANET devs seriously consider profession forums for balance. They clearly use data, watch film of pro games, and do analytics. You have to be reasonable.

You would be astounded to find out how dev’s (not just anet, pretty much any MMO dev) actually goes about game and class balance.

It’s pretty much just like the class forums, except eventually the boss has his say and that’s how it will be. It’s this way at Mythic, Bioware, CCP, Blizzard and even Anet.

Pet idea’s and Office politics don’t disappear when you become a game developer. There is no objective scientific analysis that overrides ivory tower stances, gut feelings and plain old personal preference.

/shrug

nuuu stop complaining, or else we’ll get nerfed again (even if that’s possible to do anymore)

Dina Van Heyr.3018:

the only place where ranger is at least a bit good is water combat but the’ve taken lake from www so no more fun for ranger and no free kills of stupid mesmers warriors eles and other not broken classes who realized too late that that they will not win and trying swim to shore..
one thing I got hit by mesmer smoke bomb for 8.9k while having 2.7k armor ..wtf … I thought they fixed that crap..

yes!
Splinter Shot on the Harpoon gun!!!
Just take a useless Grandmaster trait away (Moment of Clarity or Remorseless) and put in Splinter Shot: Make the Shortbow autoattack hit 3-5 targets!
Not much effort and large effect, giving rangers finally some O.K. actuall RANGED AoE!

Without intentionally glossing over the issues that pets and traits have (every class in the game has their fair share of poor traits and features not being entirely up to snuff), Rangers really aren’t in a bad spot at all.

If anything, the class suffers more from power creep than it does from actual balance issues, which is a collaboration of other classes being overtuned with the ranger not getting the love it needed to keep up in every aspect that other classes received improvements on.

And power creep doesn’t do anything but affect a players perception of viability versus actual viability. Arguably, rangers can complete any other content that any other class can complete, and in terms of in general PvP/WvW, is a very effective class to use. In WvW, before people start disagreeing with me, it isn’t an argument of what rangers do for balls and zergs of players, it’s the actual concept of going head on against other players while playing as a ranger, which rangers are very, very good skirmishers.

There’s a line between constructive debate and just blatant crying. If I was a mod (inb4: we’re glad you aren’t a mod) there would be a whole lot less of the garbage and the qqing all over all of these subforums.

Dina Van Heyr.3018:

1. pet is so stupid that even dredge are pure genius to ranger pet ..
7. pet f2 works when pet is not moving and if pet is in good mood
8.pet is stupid
9.pet is stupid
10.pet is stupid
11.pet is stupid
12.pet is stupid

I made a post stating how the pet should be OPTIONAL for rangers a long time ago due to the fact the pet is a terrible addition to the class and frankly, is the single biggest thing holding the class back. Give me the damage my pet does and add it to my arrow attacks and get rid of the thing and I’d be totally happy. It’s an aggro-magnet that dies instantly, has awful AI, and is solely responsible for the low damage output rangers have from their actual skills.

GW2 promoted allowing players to play how they want to. I want to play a RANGER. I want to pin people down with arrows, not frolic through open fields with my animal companion. Fact of the matter is there’s no archer class in this game worth anything – and no, condi-fire warrior doesn’t count, because that’s barely an Archer archetype and is basically a fire ele equivalent.

Before the haters say, “But the pet is what makes the ranger!” No, no it doesn’t. The ranged weapon makes the ranger. Lurking quietly and stalking prey in the wild is what makes the ranger. Sitting back and watching your mentally-slow pet do your job better than you isn’t fun, isn’t engaging, and frankly, isn’t what a predatory class should be about. You want an animal? That’s what minis are for. You want your pet? Fine, leave yours out to die and get wrecked; the ability to stow the pet while in combat for a bonus is a kitten good solution to many issues the ranger faces for balance’s sake, and frankly, it’s not hard to code, either. Doing so opens up a lot of doors for the ranger. Need to gib someone at range? Stow your pet. Need an aggro magnet? Now you have one with a free revive out-of-combat that gives you buffs when activated. The pet is something which should assist the ranger when necessary. It shouldn’t be superior to the character you’re playing and the sole defining purpose of the class.

AI is hard to code. Really, it is. This is why it makes so much sense to take this approach.

That, or ANet should just give thieves the longbow that actually deals real physical damage that’s better than just spamming AOE poison or shadow escape to run away.

Go to any other game, and the Archer/Ranger archetype is usually kitten and fun to play. While GW2 is great for breaking the mold in a lot of ways, not allowing people to play this way at all is incredibly silly and really detrimental to a significant chunk of players.

/rage
I hated WoW for the archer’s pet dependency as well. R:BF has incredible ranged classes that are by far the most fun I’ve ever had playing a ranger. And they’re just as in-tune with nature, but they require perfect positioning to not die with, and deal a lot of damage similar to the GW1 ranger – the exact opposite of the GW2 ranger.

So sign me up to get rid of the kitten ed companions. They’re irritating, useless, and completely holding the class back during 90% of play.

Edit:
Regarding “L2P”:
There’s a difference between being a good player and optimizing build choices.
Currently I’m regarded as being the #1 authority on the ranger classes in R:BF (another mmo).
This class might not be “under-powered,” and I won’t object to accusations calling me out as not a “pro” ranger in GW2, but that’s exactly it – I’m not because I refuse to dump 30 points into BM to “make the best of it.” I want to play an archer, and I know I’m good at that aspect. Fact of the matter is that not dumping 30 points into BM is what makes rangers under-powered and not relying solely on the pet is what makes gameplay feel poor and inhibits success as an individual character.

Again, ANet praises themselves for allowing build/playstyle diversities within classes. That’s a great idea, but fact of the matter is an archer ranger is simply not viable, even when played by experienced/T1 archers.

Solid Gold.9310:

Rangers who have played Rangers in other mmo’s.

Too bad for you this isn’t those other games you were used too? No offense meant, but GW2’s Ranger needs not be bound to “ageless” MMO criteria used in other games… especially considering that at least this Ranger is closer to the original archetype than many of those other MMOs where it’s usually just an Archer.

Again, no offense or argument intended. I do not like “L2P” thrown around either, but many of the OP’s complaints could have been very well avoided by just playing his/her Ranger differently, rather than pretending the Profession to play JUST as he/she expected.

Feel free to disagree of course. No point in debating something we won’t change our minds about, and there’s nothing wrong with not thinking the same way.

the ranger is in a bad position, mostly because 40 percent of your dmg is dead crawling in your legs 90 percent of the time (the other 10 is inmobile after pet swap) also all our traits are garbage for that dead pet and the rest are just nonsense that requirse you be half dead to trigger, on top of that nerfed weapons…. we have nothing to support a zerg. Icould go on all day long but Im tired and currently leveling my warrior permastun with 4kdmg without dimishing returns inmune to conditions with endure pain invulnerability