Guild Wars 2

Well I posted this as response to other thread, but figured it would deserve another thread as it wasn’t exactly on the topic.

“No pain, no gain.” – wise man once said

Issue comes with balancing issues in WvW for ranger

Looking at the concept of ranger/druid

Core ranger might be okay in 1v1, but when theres more than 2 people (at least in smallscale), it becomes less than half a revenant, like most, even all non-HoT specs. So theres nothing to fix there. Well its a class that cant seriously ress, stomp, share boons or stay 300 range from enemy so I guess its good balance against cancerous play.

Druid is more interesting, it has almost the same damage as normal ranger but can ress, stomp, stealth, share boons and be somewhat useful in other ways. The great ress/stomp ability, makes druid strong in small scale like 2v2s, 6v6s etc.

Now if we look at both, they are both single target classes, their pets are single target classes as well. Capable of dishing out over 10k damage in 1 second immobilizing enemy, makes them perfect single targeters, its the only way to play druid (not ranger), and only way to keep pets alive. So basically you will be punished going out of your role and pewpewing people in the middle of enemy zerg, instead of at the sides, and its only your pet dying, not you, not the worst punishment for misplay in the world.

Anyways the whole concept of single target classes is wrong in WvW, theres 1 AoE damage skill in normal druid build. You cant obviously balance skills for both single and AoE target. Staff ele sucks in 1v1 or smallscale, but excels in AoE because pure overall dps. Ranger sucks in overall dps, but has bigger damage on single target.

Thats why ranger will never be optimal “braindead” class in largescale WvW until they bring another weaponset, kinda like thief, you actually have to think. Mesmer can do lot of AoE bursts, but is little harder to execute than above mentioned classes. Thus you druids and daredevils should stick in roaming/small-scale and all classes are balanced.

As an option to play ranger, play revenant for bigger fights, it has nearly same range with hammer, is viable full zerk and shiro evade backwards is basically lightning reflexes and glint heal is basically signet of stone but better. Best thing of all, it does AoE damage!! 10k AoE hammer 2, 10k AoE hammer 3, 10k AoE hammer 5!!! Hard to hit on single targets, but excels on this scale. Also it shares boons and doesn’t rely on pets.

They would have to buff ranger damage by 100% to make it even close to damage/support most classes deal out in largerscale WvW fights, and they wont do that because it will break the smallscale. I truly think anet is living with the saying " No pain, no gain". So you have to risk yourself to come out of that 1500 range shell to become viable.

Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.

And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.

Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.

…eh, just wait on the next xpac and an offensive elite spec, and enjoy the tears from whoever gets the next healing elite or whatevs.

What makes you think ranger isn’t viable in WvW?

The question here is : what part of WvW you mean?
Zerg vs Zerg (50 vs 50)
GvG 20vs 20
Small scale 5vs5
roaming 1vs1

Because in Zergs/Squads you want a good setup.
You have 5 player in one group.
3 of them cant be changed.
2 Guards and 1 Rev needs to be in every group.
The last 2 Player are mostly one Necro and one ele for range dmg.
You also need 2-3 mesmer per zerg (portals and stuff)

There is just no space for a ranger , same goes for Ingi , Thief and Warrior.

The dream zerg would be 8 groups of :
Guard/Guard/Rev/Nec/Ele
and 2 groups of;
Guard/Guard/Rev/Nec/Mes

In GvG you can play every class with success.

I think it depends also on your Rangers build. I run druid and the way I am set up I am extremely tanky I can heal great and I can also put out a decent amount of damage. I can be in the front line on tag supplying him with heals while ccing all the people coming our way. So to me I see it as being pretty viable. Not to mention I have seen zergs run the pirate ship build where their entire back line is pretty much Rangers and they pew pew other zergs to death. That one however is not very viable lol.

Pet accounts for a considerable part of ranger damage but that damage is not available in big fights because the pet doesn’t survive for more than 5 seconds. You are basically playing a class without class mechanic.
It is that simple.

Erzian.5218:

Pet accounts for a considerable part of ranger damage but that damage is not available in big fights because the pet doesn’t survive for more than 5 seconds. You are basically playing a class without class mechanic.
It is that simple.

? You can always go bear and smokestacl and they survive all but the biggest blobs especially if your running NM BM.

Bear gives aoe cleanse every 20 secs and more cleanse is always good. Smoke scale does the rev 3 skill every time you swap to it or enter combat so it will hit. And also who cares about damage if your main goal as a druid frontliner is to heal.

Druid is excellent roamer and even better havocer or zergbuster

But you clearly don’t ranger. Pets only attribute burst damage and that’s the new ones. Most of them are just utilized for utility.

It depends on what pets you are using and how you are traited. I run beast mastery and use smoke scale and bristleback. It takes a very long time for my pet to die when he does die I switch to my other on. This is me right in the thick of the fight getting hit by everything. While I have my other pet out my other one is back up ready to go. The gaps where I do not have a pet is very far apart. If you do not have heart of thorns then the bear class are extremly tanky as well and you can use them in replacement of the smoke scale and bristleback. Also if you are constantly giving out heals then most of yhe time your pet is in range recieving those heals. Same if you are running shouts your pet will recive that regeneration if you have the shouts and your pet traited for that.

Eleazar.9478:

But you clearly don’t ranger. Pets only attribute burst damage and that’s the new ones. Most of them are just utilized for utility.

Yes clearly, I don’t play ranger I am only trying to make your class look bad so wvw players wont ask me to reroll from my guard/rev/ele to my ranger anymore :^)

guys just i want to point out daze is a soft cc Druid does not apply stun or alike, the targets will keep running around and away.

Soft cc = “control” conditions. Hard cc = effect, that prevents players from skill usage (except stunbreaks and some instant skills). Daze is a hard cc.
Dependent on the build, ranger/druid has plenty of access to different kinds of hard and soft cc.

Eleazar.9478:

Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.

And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.

Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.

Hahahahahahaha

Traps scale by and large with condi damage, and condi weapons are absolute garbage for large scale WvW since you have no condi weapon that comes close to aoe/condi cleave with the exception of the odd bonfire which is just a crappier version of warrior longbow burst or what ele/engineer already do better.

Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class. Your only function is to go into gimmick longbow builds to bother backline eles, that’s it. That’s all ranger might be useful for and even there a thief serves a much better purpose to quickly take out a backline.

That’s why most rangers run druid roamer builds.

Zenith.7301:

Eleazar.9478:

Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.

And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.

Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.

Hahahahahahaha

Traps scale by and large with condi damage, and condi weapons are absolute garbage for large scale WvW since you have no condi weapon that comes close to aoe/condi cleave with the exception of the odd bonfire which is just a crappier version of warrior longbow burst or what ele/engineer already do better.

Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class. Your only function is to go into gimmick longbow builds to bother backline eles, that’s it. That’s all ranger might be useful for and even there a thief serves a much better purpose to quickly take out a backline.

That’s why most rangers run druid roamer builds.

> Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class.
I do not see how one can hold that opinion. Sure, rangers that do not use the druid spec are useless, and even those who use the druid spec without a focus on support are useless, but saying ranger is a useless large scale WvW class is silly. Druid has the highest burst healing in the game, which is very useful in large scale fights when damage spikes bring down players to near death. Druid also can provide condition cleanse, stealth access, superspeed, sustained healing, CC, and can do fine out of party if played correctly to focus healing on those who are low. Druid has unique utility, depending on the build, where it provides powerful offensive buffs in the form of Spotter, Grace of the Land, fury, glyph of empowerment or even frost spirit. Druid has access to a moving water field, a water field that absorbs projectiles and shoots out healing “bolts”, and if taken another waterfield that lasts for 10 seconds and removes a condition every 2 seconds while applying regeneration (Although the 10k+ burst heal from glyph is usually better here :P) I just do not see how druid can be described as a useless WvW class. It provides the best burst healing ingame, along with sustained healing, condition cleanse, CC, powerful offensive buffs, blast finishers (Ancestral Grace/LI/COTW), etc..

Dovkan.3519:

Zenith.7301:

Eleazar.9478:

Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.

And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.

Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.

Hahahahahahaha

Traps scale by and large with condi damage, and condi weapons are absolute garbage for large scale WvW since you have no condi weapon that comes close to aoe/condi cleave with the exception of the odd bonfire which is just a crappier version of warrior longbow burst or what ele/engineer already do better.

Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class. Your only function is to go into gimmick longbow builds to bother backline eles, that’s it. That’s all ranger might be useful for and even there a thief serves a much better purpose to quickly take out a backline.

That’s why most rangers run druid roamer builds.

> Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class.
I do not see how one can hold that opinion. Sure, rangers that do not use the druid spec are useless, and even those who use the druid spec without a focus on support are useless, but saying ranger is a useless large scale WvW class is silly. Druid has the highest burst healing in the game, which is very useful in large scale fights when damage spikes bring down players to near death. Druid also can provide condition cleanse, stealth access, superspeed, sustained healing, CC, and can do fine out of party if played correctly to focus healing on those who are low. Druid has unique utility, depending on the build, where it provides powerful offensive buffs in the form of Spotter, Grace of the Land, fury, glyph of empowerment or even frost spirit. Druid has access to a moving water field, a water field that absorbs projectiles and shoots out healing “bolts”, and if taken another waterfield that lasts for 10 seconds and removes a condition every 2 seconds while applying regeneration (Although the 10k+ burst heal from glyph is usually better here :P) I just do not see how druid can be described as a useless WvW class. It provides the best burst healing ingame, along with sustained healing, condition cleanse, CC, powerful offensive buffs, blast finishers (Ancestral Grace/LI/COTW), etc..

But what if we don’t want to be your heal bot and want to actually be a Ranger? We should be able to play that way too and still make a contribution.

Dovkan.3519:

Zenith.7301:

Eleazar.9478:

Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.

And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.

Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.

Hahahahahahaha

Traps scale by and large with condi damage, and condi weapons are absolute garbage for large scale WvW since you have no condi weapon that comes close to aoe/condi cleave with the exception of the odd bonfire which is just a crappier version of warrior longbow burst or what ele/engineer already do better.

Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class. Your only function is to go into gimmick longbow builds to bother backline eles, that’s it. That’s all ranger might be useful for and even there a thief serves a much better purpose to quickly take out a backline.

That’s why most rangers run druid roamer builds.

> Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class.
I do not see how one can hold that opinion. Sure, rangers that do not use the druid spec are useless, and even those who use the druid spec without a focus on support are useless, but saying ranger is a useless large scale WvW class is silly. Druid has the highest burst healing in the game, which is very useful in large scale fights when damage spikes bring down players to near death. Druid also can provide condition cleanse, stealth access, superspeed, sustained healing, CC, and can do fine out of party if played correctly to focus healing on those who are low. Druid has unique utility, depending on the build, where it provides powerful offensive buffs in the form of Spotter, Grace of the Land, fury, glyph of empowerment or even frost spirit. Druid has access to a moving water field, a water field that absorbs projectiles and shoots out healing “bolts”, and if taken another waterfield that lasts for 10 seconds and removes a condition every 2 seconds while applying regeneration (Although the 10k+ burst heal from glyph is usually better here :P) I just do not see how druid can be described as a useless WvW class. It provides the best burst healing ingame, along with sustained healing, condition cleanse, CC, powerful offensive buffs, blast finishers (Ancestral Grace/LI/COTW), etc..

Your best burst healing depends on lunar impact which is a long cast on a class that doesn’t have much access to stability in the middle of a zerg clash that’s spamming CC all over you.

An auramancer front/midline support ele build provides much better group protection and burst healing, and does better damage to boot.

Frost Spirit and spirits in general are useless in large scale WvW, they die pretty much immediately with no aoe protection. Spirits are just a worse version of warrior banners.

Availability of water fields is easily made available by the many healing rains the countless staff eles people bring can provide, assuming the frontline eles didn’t provide that waterfield themselves.

Druid healing is not bad, but it’s virtually all you bring besides grace of the land. And largescale WvW with its massive damage spikes is more proactive mitigation than reactive mitigation.

Anela.3867:

Dovkan.3519:

Zenith.7301:

Eleazar.9478:

Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.

And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.

Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.

Hahahahahahaha

Traps scale by and large with condi damage, and condi weapons are absolute garbage for large scale WvW since you have no condi weapon that comes close to aoe/condi cleave with the exception of the odd bonfire which is just a crappier version of warrior longbow burst or what ele/engineer already do better.

Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class. Your only function is to go into gimmick longbow builds to bother backline eles, that’s it. That’s all ranger might be useful for and even there a thief serves a much better purpose to quickly take out a backline.

That’s why most rangers run druid roamer builds.

> Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class.
I do not see how one can hold that opinion. Sure, rangers that do not use the druid spec are useless, and even those who use the druid spec without a focus on support are useless, but saying ranger is a useless large scale WvW class is silly. Druid has the highest burst healing in the game, which is very useful in large scale fights when damage spikes bring down players to near death. Druid also can provide condition cleanse, stealth access, superspeed, sustained healing, CC, and can do fine out of party if played correctly to focus healing on those who are low. Druid has unique utility, depending on the build, where it provides powerful offensive buffs in the form of Spotter, Grace of the Land, fury, glyph of empowerment or even frost spirit. Druid has access to a moving water field, a water field that absorbs projectiles and shoots out healing “bolts”, and if taken another waterfield that lasts for 10 seconds and removes a condition every 2 seconds while applying regeneration (Although the 10k+ burst heal from glyph is usually better here :P) I just do not see how druid can be described as a useless WvW class. It provides the best burst healing ingame, along with sustained healing, condition cleanse, CC, powerful offensive buffs, blast finishers (Ancestral Grace/LI/COTW), etc..

But what if we don’t want to be your heal bot and want to actually be a Ranger? We should be able to play that way too and still make a contribution.

How would you propose playing it?

Zenith.7301:

Dovkan.3519:

Zenith.7301:

Eleazar.9478:

Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.

And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.

Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.

Hahahahahahaha

Traps scale by and large with condi damage, and condi weapons are absolute garbage for large scale WvW since you have no condi weapon that comes close to aoe/condi cleave with the exception of the odd bonfire which is just a crappier version of warrior longbow burst or what ele/engineer already do better.

Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class. Your only function is to go into gimmick longbow builds to bother backline eles, that’s it. That’s all ranger might be useful for and even there a thief serves a much better purpose to quickly take out a backline.

That’s why most rangers run druid roamer builds.

> Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class.
I do not see how one can hold that opinion. Sure, rangers that do not use the druid spec are useless, and even those who use the druid spec without a focus on support are useless, but saying ranger is a useless large scale WvW class is silly. Druid has the highest burst healing in the game, which is very useful in large scale fights when damage spikes bring down players to near death. Druid also can provide condition cleanse, stealth access, superspeed, sustained healing, CC, and can do fine out of party if played correctly to focus healing on those who are low. Druid has unique utility, depending on the build, where it provides powerful offensive buffs in the form of Spotter, Grace of the Land, fury, glyph of empowerment or even frost spirit. Druid has access to a moving water field, a water field that absorbs projectiles and shoots out healing “bolts”, and if taken another waterfield that lasts for 10 seconds and removes a condition every 2 seconds while applying regeneration (Although the 10k+ burst heal from glyph is usually better here :P) I just do not see how druid can be described as a useless WvW class. It provides the best burst healing ingame, along with sustained healing, condition cleanse, CC, powerful offensive buffs, blast finishers (Ancestral Grace/LI/COTW), etc..

Your best burst healing depends on lunar impact which is a long cast on a class that doesn’t have much access to stability in the middle of a zerg clash that’s spamming CC all over you.

An auramancer front/midline support ele build provides much better group protection and burst healing, and does better damage to boot.

Frost Spirit and spirits in general are useless in large scale WvW, they die pretty much immediately with no aoe protection. Spirits are just a worse version of warrior banners.

Availability of water fields is easily made available by the many healing rains the countless staff eles people bring can provide, assuming the frontline eles didn’t provide that waterfield themselves.

Druid healing is not bad, but it’s virtually all you bring besides grace of the land.

The best burst healing comes from glyph of rejuvenation, not Lunar Impact. (Which makes me wonder if you’ve ever played with glyphs. )Druid has access to stability from sotw/sotp/stowing convergence in avatar. Lunar Impact is a nice heal though, which is why it can be quick drawed with skirmishing. Spirits are generally useless, yes, but you can use the frost spirit and instantly use the active, which still makes the effect last until the frost spirit despawns. I wouldn’t use frost spirit but it’s not terrible if you want to push for pure offensive buffs. You cannot really go wrong with more water fields, so I do not see how that is an argument. Eles dont really have access to any moving water fields either, apart from warhorn which most eles dont use in the first place. Saying it’s virtually all druid brings apart from grace of the land is laughably false. Spotter/GOE/GOTL are all offensive buffs, GOE being a large boost to group sustain in avatar if needed (25% outgoing healing to yourself and allies) Druid also has stealth access/superspeed when dropping avatar, which is very good for bailing people out if taken. I’m not sure why you said an ele has better burst healing since that is false. Glyph of rejuvenation is a 10k heal in avatar, lunar impact a large burst heal, alignment another burst heal, spamming cosmic ray with quickness heals for absurd amounts, rejuvenating tides… I do not think a druid should replace ele, but there’s nothing wrong with using druid over an ele when druid outheals ele by a significant amount.

Dovkan.3519:

Anela.3867:

Dovkan.3519:

Zenith.7301:

Eleazar.9478:

Huh? I feel like you don’t even ranger. 1 the elite specs are always stronger in wvw fights except for maybe support guard.

And for your brain dead blob fights they would just have to give ranger back there old old throwable traps back for cleaves, rez prevention, bombs etc.

Also why is this even a thread? If you could play rev at you might as well go druid. There’s deff solid frontline builds.

Hahahahahahaha

Traps scale by and large with condi damage, and condi weapons are absolute garbage for large scale WvW since you have no condi weapon that comes close to aoe/condi cleave with the exception of the odd bonfire which is just a crappier version of warrior longbow burst or what ele/engineer already do better.

Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class. Your only function is to go into gimmick longbow builds to bother backline eles, that’s it. That’s all ranger might be useful for and even there a thief serves a much better purpose to quickly take out a backline.

That’s why most rangers run druid roamer builds.

> Rangers are a useless large scale WvW class.
I do not see how one can hold that opinion. Sure, rangers that do not use the druid spec are useless, and even those who use the druid spec without a focus on support are useless, but saying ranger is a useless large scale WvW class is silly. Druid has the highest burst healing in the game, which is very useful in large scale fights when damage spikes bring down players to near death. Druid also can provide condition cleanse, stealth access, superspeed, sustained healing, CC, and can do fine out of party if played correctly to focus healing on those who are low. Druid has unique utility, depending on the build, where it provides powerful offensive buffs in the form of Spotter, Grace of the Land, fury, glyph of empowerment or even frost spirit. Druid has access to a moving water field, a water field that absorbs projectiles and shoots out healing “bolts”, and if taken another waterfield that lasts for 10 seconds and removes a condition every 2 seconds while applying regeneration (Although the 10k+ burst heal from glyph is usually better here :P) I just do not see how druid can be described as a useless WvW class. It provides the best burst healing ingame, along with sustained healing, condition cleanse, CC, powerful offensive buffs, blast finishers (Ancestral Grace/LI/COTW), etc..

But what if we don’t want to be your heal bot and want to actually be a Ranger? We should be able to play that way too and still make a contribution.

How would you propose playing it?

With my bow and my pet, the traditional Ranger abilities.

As a roamer I choose another profession because of my power build in WvW but when I start pairing up with 1, 2 or more and I can hold my own. Traps are the bigger benefits, drop roll back and fire away. 1v1 Yeah it is difficult but again I roam with a high damage more viable 1v1 toon.

Pet is our biggest issue in large encounters. They can’t dodge or evade, they just die from AoE damage. Even if you are good at positioning and keeping them alive, they are just sub-optimal compared to other classes mechanics.
But ranger is useless? Nah. I’ve seen a lot of guilds running atleast 1 druid in their comp.
Druid can’t be compared to ele. They just bring different things: eles have auras,heals, tons of boons, combo fields/finishers and AoE damage. Druids have no auras, but hey, they heal a lot more than an ele. Also they have,as already mentioned, superspeed/stealth/Spotter free 7% aoe crit chance/ grace of the land/condi removals/tons of waterfields/blast finishers.
The main disadvantage of druid is the aoe damage, they can’t pressure much on a kill. That’s why is better to have less druids than eles. You dont have much dps if you have tons of druids in your raid or zerg. But let’s be honest they are not useless. They can heal better than every other class.
Also ranger is such a “newborn class” in large scale fights. People are still testing the potential, thats why we don’t have a meta with rangers already.

during my WvW days , i mained ranger same as sosuke and meny other quite famous rangers.

the trick to playing ranger is not hitting the blob but the art of picking off those that have already blew their stunbreaks and condi-clears on the drive/push into through a zerg (you don’t follow the zerg )

1. you ether Speed ahead with things like Whirling defence on a commander style build and use pet swap wolf fear wd5 > AOE – Ancient seeds but make sure you don’t stand in the kill zone the ally zerg rolling up behind you will be of more concern to the opposing zerg this is a Hard CC bombing tactic which also protects vs Other arrow fire from Beserker rangers or DH dragon hunters CC. all you need is the staff for Utility the main role is to CC and damage with pet using Beastmastery / wilderness / nature magic or the opposite just go full bomb damage use more beserker or condi gear but the risk is much higher if you don’t skillfully postion correctly or quickly enough . its much harder to do as you’ll be alone for a few seconds but Wd5 should tide you over untill the safety o the zerg arrives so you can Keep back and Staff heal > CC’s with muddy terrains and staff chain bleeds.

its not a easly played in wvw due to its restrictions when it comes to opposing choices that can stay within the confines of the zerg and do enough damage simply because the ranger is a Mid to long range class it attack inbetween those distances hitting things as you move around from one postion to other , you’d never keep slow pace in direct melee with other melee users on a gs ether its all about the postioning / movement for optimal effectiveness .

due to the lack of Aoes we need to focus on a target that is already Vunrable no more stun breaks ect and pressure that with ether path of scars / lb’s or staff autos with a vine for good measure , the rest of the people hit by the passing effects is simply to prepair the next target for pressuring or prepairing for the next Ancestral Grace > WD5 combo (aiming for firefields does a lot more damage or on preference go for water to heal support the zerg as they pass or even lightfield+blinds on seeds of life trait through the use of Glyph of Equality).

i spent a good amount of time playing just the basic Ranged options and a little of melee focused combat during my first few months of playing ranger in wvw i soon learned that the Crowd control portion of the ranger was much more Valuable than trying to copy other classes which Zerg and can’t Direct there Aoe CC focus on single Escaping targets without scarificing a larger group of target due to the shorter ranges on other classes CC’s.

well i may have rambled but that is one option that still exists but its solely still reliant on the druid trait tree .

after that i got bored and took a break , it became all too easy to pin down specific threats on the edges of the zergs since those could open up a even larger window for a zerg to push through which is a part role of a ranger to create windows of opportunity through division and thats where it starts to turn into top teir WvW tactics in specialised cells which is still a specialty not so well used in the generic zerg step ups.

This has been a well known fact since forever. The underlying truth is that the game is balanced around 5v5, and although WvW does get some specific balancing at it’s core the game is still a 5v5 game. And pets (and any other minions) scale badly beyond that.

We can still roam. We can still duel. Hell you can still zerg, be of some use and have a ton of fun while you’re at it. But the core problem will never ever go away.

Cufufalating.8479:

This has been a well known fact since forever. The underlying truth is that the game is balanced around 5v5, and although WvW does get some specific balancing at it’s core the game is still a 5v5 game. And pets (and any other minions) scale badly beyond that.

We can still roam. We can still duel. Hell you can still zerg, be of some use and have a ton of fun while you’re at it. But the core problem will never ever go away.

I also noted that most of the pet recommendations tend to be the highest single target pets, rather than, say, the lizards with their nice cleave and aoe attacks. It’s not amazing — the three or five targets that, eg, melee weapons get — but it’s certainly more than nothing.

Have I missed something there, where preferring cleave in large group fights isn’t as useful as I think?

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Cufufalating.8479:

This has been a well known fact since forever. The underlying truth is that the game is balanced around 5v5, and although WvW does get some specific balancing at it’s core the game is still a 5v5 game. And pets (and any other minions) scale badly beyond that.

We can still roam. We can still duel. Hell you can still zerg, be of some use and have a ton of fun while you’re at it. But the core problem will never ever go away.

I also noted that most of the pet recommendations tend to be the highest single target pets, rather than, say, the lizards with their nice cleave and aoe attacks. It’s not amazing — the three or five targets that, eg, melee weapons get — but it’s certainly more than nothing.

Have I missed something there, where preferring cleave in large group fights isn’t as useful as I think?

Drake autoattacks for 700-800 damage, it’s pitiful.

People think pet damage is good but only because it’s 15-18k HP toons being hit by pet burst skills, not their sustained DPS.

Zenith.7301:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Cufufalating.8479:

This has been a well known fact since forever. The underlying truth is that the game is balanced around 5v5, and although WvW does get some specific balancing at it’s core the game is still a 5v5 game. And pets (and any other minions) scale badly beyond that.

We can still roam. We can still duel. Hell you can still zerg, be of some use and have a ton of fun while you’re at it. But the core problem will never ever go away.

I also noted that most of the pet recommendations tend to be the highest single target pets, rather than, say, the lizards with their nice cleave and aoe attacks. It’s not amazing — the three or five targets that, eg, melee weapons get — but it’s certainly more than nothing.

Have I missed something there, where preferring cleave in large group fights isn’t as useful as I think?

Drake autoattacks for 700-800 damage, it’s pitiful.

What’s the tiger AA damage, though? Single target 1.2k? That’s half the damage output in a group where the drake hits three targets, right?

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Zenith.7301:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Cufufalating.8479:

This has been a well known fact since forever. The underlying truth is that the game is balanced around 5v5, and although WvW does get some specific balancing at it’s core the game is still a 5v5 game. And pets (and any other minions) scale badly beyond that.

We can still roam. We can still duel. Hell you can still zerg, be of some use and have a ton of fun while you’re at it. But the core problem will never ever go away.

I also noted that most of the pet recommendations tend to be the highest single target pets, rather than, say, the lizards with their nice cleave and aoe attacks. It’s not amazing — the three or five targets that, eg, melee weapons get — but it’s certainly more than nothing.

Have I missed something there, where preferring cleave in large group fights isn’t as useful as I think?

Drake autoattacks for 700-800 damage, it’s pitiful.

What’s the tiger AA damage, though? Single target 1.2k? That’s half the damage output in a group where the drake hits three targets, right?

Yeah, but the tiger has burst where the drake is doing lowly sustained damage across 3 targets. Before they die immediately, of course. Drake can’t even finish its breath cast before it’s dead.

Pets are garbage, really. This game has the worst system for pets of any MMO. No AoE immunity across formats, pets don’t inherit stat boosts from gear or consumables or runes or sigils, and the worst part is you can’t even control the set of abilities a pet has.

I’m still not sure why mesmer phantasms scale with mesmer gear and consumable bonuses (because they scale off the mesmer stats) but our pets can’t.

More importantly, our godkitten ed pets need us to invest in a trait so they can benefit from the boons we gain, it’s asinine.

The 50 sec cd timer on pet death is the worst design decision for pets they’ve made so far, and it’s all because of spvp.

idk rangers can put out some nasty dps at 1500 meters. hell i put out 15k on rapid fire on an ele that was melting my team last night. the only complaint i have is the aoe damage is terribad. but its ability to destroy priority targets is unmatched.

Rangerdeity.5847:

idk rangers can put out some nasty dps at 1500 meters. hell i put out 15k on rapid fire on an ele that was melting my team last night. the only complaint i have is the aoe damage is terribad. but its ability to destroy priority targets is unmatched.

That’s not DPS. Ele fire staff outDPS longbow.

Don’t confuse burst damage for DPS.

And being able to rapid fire a single target means little in a battle between 20+ people.

Zenith.7301:

Rangerdeity.5847:

idk rangers can put out some nasty dps at 1500 meters. hell i put out 15k on rapid fire on an ele that was melting my team last night. the only complaint i have is the aoe damage is terribad. but its ability to destroy priority targets is unmatched.

That’s not DPS. Ele fire staff outDPS longbow.

Don’t confuse burst damage for DPS.

And being able to rapid fire a single target means little in a battle between 20+ people.

Other than backline glass hero…there is nothing else for you on ele in wvw

-You can’t roam as your profession is garbage respect to all other roamer builds at equal skill level

- You can’t havoc group..you just get totalized by thieves

- Being viable only in huge zerg fights..get tiring..quickly

As somebody who main ele and ranger…I’ll stick to ranger for great part of the game, if you want to be babysitted or fall over dead the second they look in your direction..go on and play ele, my friend

Supreme.3164:

Zenith.7301:

Rangerdeity.5847:

idk rangers can put out some nasty dps at 1500 meters. hell i put out 15k on rapid fire on an ele that was melting my team last night. the only complaint i have is the aoe damage is terribad. but its ability to destroy priority targets is unmatched.

That’s not DPS. Ele fire staff outDPS longbow.

Don’t confuse burst damage for DPS.

And being able to rapid fire a single target means little in a battle between 20+ people.

Other than backline glass hero…there is nothing else for you on ele in wvw

-You can’t roam as your profession is garbage respect to all other roamer builds at equal skill level

- You can’t havoc group..you just get totalized by thieves

- Being viable only in huge zerg fights..get tiring..quickly

As somebody who main ele and ranger…I’ll stick to ranger for great part of the game, if you want to be babysitted or fall over dead the second they look in your direction..go on and play ele, my friend

Or you can have a gearset for bunker auramancer and never die to thief when you’re roaming alone let alone die to anyone.

I mean, zerker longbow ranger is a garbage roaming spec as well. The druid roaming build is more than worthless for zerging.

Revenants have no good roaming build, so they have to build for zergs since the nerfs made sure revenant is free food to thieves, warriors, and condi specs.

Mesmer’s only good roaming build, PU condi, is also trash for zerging. The mesmer build that’s useful for zergs also needs to be babysat.

Necromancers need to be babysat since they’re thief and warrior food on any spec and build.

As far as options eles are rather well off. You got auramancer bunkers for roaming, you got backline staff ele for zergs, and you’re the best DPS class and the only class stacked in raids in this game.

Zenith.7301:

Supreme.3164:

Zenith.7301:

Rangerdeity.5847:

idk rangers can put out some nasty dps at 1500 meters. hell i put out 15k on rapid fire on an ele that was melting my team last night. the only complaint i have is the aoe damage is terribad. but its ability to destroy priority targets is unmatched.

That’s not DPS. Ele fire staff outDPS longbow.

Don’t confuse burst damage for DPS.

And being able to rapid fire a single target means little in a battle between 20+ people.

Other than backline glass hero…there is nothing else for you on ele in wvw

-You can’t roam as your profession is garbage respect to all other roamer builds at equal skill level

- You can’t havoc group..you just get totalized by thieves

- Being viable only in huge zerg fights..get tiring..quickly

As somebody who main ele and ranger…I’ll stick to ranger for great part of the game, if you want to be babysitted or fall over dead the second they look in your direction..go on and play ele, my friend

Or you can have a gearset for bunker auramancer and never die to thief when you’re roaming alone let alone die to anyone.

I mean, zerker longbow ranger is a garbage roaming spec as well. The druid roaming build is more than worthless for zerging.

Revenants have no good roaming build, so they have to build for zergs since the nerfs made sure revenant is free food to thieves, warriors, and condi specs.

Mesmer’s only good roaming build, PU condi, is also trash for zerging. The mesmer build that’s useful for zergs also needs to be babysat.

Necromancers need to be babysat since they’re thief and warrior food on any spec and build.

As far as options eles are rather well off. You got auramancer bunkers for roaming, you got backline staff ele for zergs, and you’re the best DPS class and the only class stacked in raids in this game.

When do you kill something with a bunker auramancer?…..Trust me you will never kill anything with half brain…or anything at all I’d say, you basically do very low dmg at mele range..where everyone and his dog can range you from all safety…scepter is garbage..worst weapon in gw2 since launch, so you’re left with dagger mainhand..and gl hitting anything in wvw with dh main hand…everybody will lunge/range you from 1200 range as you have a single gap closer sitting at well over 30s CD

If you’re ganked…all you have is a 180s CD elite where you pray you can get away from chill/cripple and thief/war gap closer..where druid has stealth and 1200 range dash

Outside raids/pve(which I don’t play) and backline glass staff there is no solo dmg build for eles

I’m a solo player and I am all about solo gameplay and ele is not a solo class like ranger, in most of your roles you must be babysitted be it in raids or wvw

If that your cup of tea..go for it, I like current ranger and I play the game the way I want, I see nothing better in ele as solo player

Auramancer does not kill anything itself.

That’s not the point. The point with auramancer is that nothing kills you either. You’re there to support the roam group.

Who the hell cares about your dueling fantasies?

Duelists are useless in WvW. Match ups are won by zerg play.

Zenith.7301:

Auramancer does not kill anything itself.

That’s not the point. The point with auramancer is that nothing kills you either. You’re there to support the roam group.

Who the hell cares about your dueling fantasies?

Duelists are useless in WvW. Match ups are won by zerg play.

Playing support 24/7 gets boring after 2 years you know?
Last I checked playing videogames was about having fun..and not being forced into a given role…yeah you can go full nomad healer on druid too and never die..still nobody does that..why?

You go perma stealth thief with the signet heal and never die…nobody does that why?

People play the game to kill stuff…..not to play useless tank spec with 0 dmg and 0 fun

Supreme.3164:

Zenith.7301:

Auramancer does not kill anything itself.

That’s not the point. The point with auramancer is that nothing kills you either. You’re there to support the roam group.

Who the hell cares about your dueling fantasies?

Duelists are useless in WvW. Match ups are won by zerg play.

Playing support 24/7 gets boring after 2 years you know?
Last I checked playing videogames was about having fun..and not being forced into a given role…yeah you can go full nomad healer on druid too and never die..still nobody does that..why?

You go perma stealth thief with the signet heal and never die…nobody does that why?

People play the game to kill stuff…..not to play useless tank spec with 0 dmg and 0 fun

I see people do that all the time. They troll around the enemy spawn constantly contesting their keep. They get big groups to chase them, wasting people’s time.
And in the auramancer’s case, if they do happen to find a 1v1 they almost always win, it just doesn’t happen quickly.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Supreme.3164:

Zenith.7301:

Auramancer does not kill anything itself.

That’s not the point. The point with auramancer is that nothing kills you either. You’re there to support the roam group.

Who the hell cares about your dueling fantasies?

Duelists are useless in WvW. Match ups are won by zerg play.

Playing support 24/7 gets boring after 2 years you know?
Last I checked playing videogames was about having fun..and not being forced into a given role…yeah you can go full nomad healer on druid too and never die..still nobody does that..why?

You go perma stealth thief with the signet heal and never die…nobody does that why?

People play the game to kill stuff…..not to play useless tank spec with 0 dmg and 0 fun

I see people do that all the time. They troll around the enemy spawn constantly contesting their keep. They get big groups to chase them, wasting people’s time.
And in the auramancer’s case, if they do happen to find a 1v1 they almost always win, it just doesn’t happen quickly.

Then why all of you guys don’t play an auramancer seen as it’s so amazing?
If you want to play 0 dmg tank..go for it, nothing stopping you

Jim Hunter.6821:

I see people do that all the time. They troll around the enemy spawn constantly contesting their keep. They get big groups to chase them, wasting people’s time.
And in the auramancer’s case, if they do happen to find a 1v1 they almost always win, it just doesn’t happen quickly.

I can testify for that. Ele has water and earth and rotating between those two there is nothing can take down a bunker ele.
It is true air won’t be top Kek dps but still is going to do enough damage to melt any glass/bruiser build.

Coming here to defend ele is a bad joke, it is stablished ele is the best class in game because you can build for anything. If you are killed constantly in wvw should L2P

Druid on the other side can only build for healbot in zergs as there is no other build available. And not talking about "best"or “meta” but simply playable. You must go bunker or bunker.

Ranger can build for nothing as it lack any sustain and burst dps to be able to have an strategy to survive.

So baddies should get over the pet, having to fight against 1 and 1/4 and they come here to complain.

We need some rework in general to have more viable builds as ranger is kinda constant dps instead spike (no having one RF in LB for average 7K does not qualify as spike) but we lack all the tools to be able to play as the bruiser the class is now.

Zenith.7301:

Duelists are useless in WvW. Match ups are won by zerg play.

“Winning” match-ups is useless in WvW given that as a competition it is a complete joke.

zinkz.7045:

Zenith.7301:

Duelists are useless in WvW. Match ups are won by zerg play.

“Winning” match-ups is useless in WvW given that as a competition it is a complete joke.

Not sure what you were expecting of a WvW format, it’s impossible to balance.

It allows food and pve gear stat caps, which completely break pvp balance, on top of large masses of players involving endless permutations of class skill combinations that simply cannot be balanced around.

Serious PvP experience belongs in spvp, if they bothered to have more formats than just conquest and supported more experiments like stronghold.

To the OP. Can you please clarify your definition of Viable?

Zenith.7301:

Not sure what you were expecting of a WvW format, it’s impossible to balance.

Great answer, with some solid arguments. However, it is possible to balance provided the developer sets a proper priority on it and staffs it accordingly. Since it doesn’t appear either of those boxes are checked we are back to your answer with it being impossible.

I will say that the Alpha client of CU is looking very promising. While I’m positive it will have balance issues the main difference is that it is PvP only. Makes it a bit easier to skin that cat when we ignore PvE mode(s).

“Why ranger will never be viable in WvW” OP in WvW

Don’t feed the troll guys