Guild Wars 2

At top tier there are three options for a heal and if you are gonna run any of them you will have it traited. With the traited reduction we get the following “Base heal” numbers. I’m assuming in some of these lines certain traits are being taken, because if you aren’t running a traited heal or things like quickdraw… you’re doing it wrong.

Healing Spring
- Base heal: 206hp/s
- With a leap finisher: 260hp/s
- With 2 leap finishers (likely with quickdraw): 314hp/s
- Added pros: condi clear and regen

Troll Unguent
- Base heal: 427hp/s
- Added pros: 2 condis cleared

We Heal as One
- Base heal: 409.5
- Added pros: regen and swiftness

With the added benefits of regen and swiftness, allowing the ranger some much needed mobility and also freeing up a rune slot (since you don’t have to take something like traveler) we find that WHaO is in fact the best heal that we have despite its slightly lowered hp/s compared to TU. TU is good, sure. I am personally not a fan of WS whatsoever and find the extra condi clear on TU to be unnecessary in the given meta. TU also does not provide swiftness. So as it stand, WHaO is the best option. If that is the case? WHY would this heal get buffed? It doesn’t make sense to me at all.

As for Water Spirit… don’t make me laugh!

If anything needs a buff it’s the new glyph for Druid.

Because it is a shout and shouts that are heals have secondary effects. That would be my guess anyway. It was the only heal shout that did not affect allies or class mechanic resource (other than healing the pet which should be a given anytime the Ranger heals).

@ Holland, agree the glyph is terrible, but I wouldn’t buff the healing on it, it needs utility. Druid already has enough healing.

Why was it buffed? Because Ranger desperately needs positive interaction with the pet. At the moment there are more ways to kill the pet yourself then to actually get a ball running between the two.

While I agree that 2 minutes of quickness or protection was hilarious, the change to WHaO is a push in the right direction. I hope we get more of this from the other shouts.

Forgot Fury in the added pros of TU.

WHaO should just instarez your pet if its dead.

roamzero.9486:

WHaO should just instarez your pet if its dead.

Yep, a pet rez skill is what we lack for sure. WHaO would make a lot of sense. Another good candidate is Protect Me.

I happen to agree with Eura I’m not terribly sure why it had the buff it strong and is and competitive to the other heals.

The only reasoning i can see is that you need to trait for it to be worth while and you would often be selecting the trait just for WhaO (rampage is a nice addition) where as with TU you could trait for its effects on the other WS skills and it a nice bouns on TU, Healing spring is good traited or untraited

So the only rational that i can see for the buff is to make it competitive untraited

I nearly fell on the floor laughing when is saw this on the dulfy twitchcon notes as the problems we are facing where highly predictable.

To be honest that buff seemed strange to me too. Boon share doesn’t fit on that shout thematically speaking and I didn’t find Heal as One to be especially weak at all. In fact I used it often in a fair few builds I run.

It’s made even stranger given they gave it this huge buff and then immediately nerfed it as if they had no idea it would let us stack boons the way it did. How could they not have caught that in the testing phase?

My guess is it was an attempt to create a PVE build that would let rangers use the longbow as a DPS option while keeping the pet in melee range and benefiting from the group’s boons, which would have been a fine buff to ranged builds and added some diversity to PVE content. Maybe they want ranged builds to be useful for raids.

If that was their goal I feel it could have been done better in the form of a trait. Nature Magic basically has an empty grandmaster trait slot (Invigorating Bond is pretty weak for a grandmaster and can’t win in competition with Protective Ward for sustain) that could have been used to expand on Fortifying Bond. Allow the ranger to benefit from boons applied to the pet by external sources. That way the pet passes all the group buffs it gets from allies to the ranger without opening the door for massive quickness duration builds. Make it so the ranger can’t benefit from the same application of a boon twice so ranger doesn’t get double buffed when near their pet. Done deal.

Is WHaO now affected by boon duration? And if it is, how is it affected?

What i dont understand is why it wasnt originally implemented exactly like fortifying bond works. Would have prevented all the whining and would have been seen as a great buff to the skill. But because people have experienced the unintended boon duration its apparently trash.

@Chokolata
From my understanding FB and WHaO should grant a boon based on what your pet has and vica verca. Its drawn from a table of static duration of which boon duration effects.

Ehecatl.9172:

My guess is it was an attempt to create a PVE build that would let rangers use the longbow as a DPS option while keeping the pet in melee range and benefiting from the group’s boons, which would have been a fine buff to ranged builds and added some diversity to PVE content. Maybe they want ranged builds to be useful for raids.

This makes senses

Ehecatl.9172:

To be honest that buff seemed strange to me too. Boon share doesn’t fit on that shout thematically speaking and I didn’t find Heal as One to be especially weak at all. In fact I used it often in a fair few builds I run.

It’s made even stranger given they gave it this huge buff and then immediately nerfed it as if they had no idea it would let us stack boons the way it did. How could they not have caught that in the testing phase?

My guess is it was an attempt to create a PVE build that would let rangers use the longbow as a DPS option while keeping the pet in melee range and benefiting from the group’s boons, which would have been a fine buff to ranged builds and added some diversity to PVE content. Maybe they want ranged builds to be useful for raids.

If that was their goal I feel it could have been done better in the form of a trait. Nature Magic basically has an empty grandmaster trait slot (Invigorating Bond is pretty weak for a grandmaster and can’t win in competition with Protective Ward for sustain) that could have been used to expand on Fortifying Bond. Allow the ranger to benefit from boons applied to the pet by external sources. That way the pet passes all the group buffs it gets from allies to the ranger without opening the door for massive quickness duration builds. Make it so the ranger can’t benefit from the same application of a boon twice so ranger doesn’t get double buffed when near their pet. Done deal.

I fully agree with this, with one exception – I don’t want to slot yet another trait for what should’ve been the functionality of FB from the beginning. Speaking of FB, if it were to work both ways, the duration limit of boons would need to be looked at.

As for WHaO, add something else. Perhaps that pet ress functionality that’s been suggested would be good.
Also as for our heals in general, they could use a bit of buffing when it comes to the part of healing the pet. Healing a bear with 50k health for a tiny 4k heal is next to unnoticeable, for example.

It unbalanced the TU/WHaO competition. HS is its own thing. WS is stupid.

Obviously rangers need a boost, and I guess WHaO was a thematically appropriate skill to try this effect on. I guess it could have just as easily gone on Sic’ Em (and with its longer CD, maybe the eles and warriors wouldn’t have thrown such a temper tantrum over it.)

Actually, hey devs, as you look at changing WHaO, why not stick it on something like PM or Sic Em?

Sigmoid.7082:

What i dont understand is why it wasnt originally implemented exactly like fortifying bond works. Would have prevented all the whining and would have been seen as a great buff to the skill. But because people have experienced the unintended boon duration its apparently trash.

It’s just a trash change. Copying boon + duration is how it should work. Both for WHaO and Fortifying Bond. But the change itself is bad. It should be baseline that boons applied to the pet are also given to the Ranger (including duration) and all boons the pet gets the Ranger also gets (incuding duration). So Ranger and pet basically act as the same target. They should share the same boon pool. And that baseline, not with a trait or heal.

So now it’s a bandaid crappy mechanic like Fortifying Bond. Fortifying Bond has its advantages, since even 1s might ends up as 10s might on the pet, but that’s just a crappy advantage that’s as crappy as the disadvantages.

That’s my issue with all of this. They just design crappy mechanics for Ranger that don’t work properly nor reliable.

Another problem is that they couldnt see it happen in advance. Like they didn’t know Forifying Bond existed that increased the durations even further in combination with WHaO. And why not buff fortifying bond instead and make it work both ways rather than adding it to WHaO?

Who cares about balance. The new heal as one is 10x more interesting. That’s so much more important.

It’s bad design, not balance.

WHaO was good after it became a “shout”. I think it’s been “buffed” because of inertia.

Actually , if they they gave the original buff(before the fix) to the water spirit it could have been interesting, and makes alot of sense cnsidering spirits are part of the NM trait line which synergise very nicly with this effect.

Actually you should add regeneration benefit to trained whao – which puts it at 488hp/s. Right now with the boonshare benefits its 529hp/s, perma regen basically.
Why they decided to buff it is beyond me.

Holland.9351:

It’s bad design, not balance.

The change with the 3 migt cap is the most unintuitive, inconsistent design I ever saw though. It is just so incredibly bad that I question the competence of the responsible dev concerning skill/class design.

Yep tl;dr on the whole Ranger forum is that people are upset because a HEAL skill was elevated to imba for a day and then rightfully nerfed back to rational status as a heal skill whose primary effect is to heal and not stack mega boon duration, and then they got upset about a skill receiving a buff that it didn’t even have originally.

Not it was not good after shout buff. It was usable. TU or HS were vastly superior in every way. It had a supposed niche of providing swiftness and regeneration but Ranger has those coming out of the whazoo.

It was the blandest, poorest designed heal in the entire game. Even Water spirit has some design to it even if it is completely useless at the moment due to very low numbers and spirits being pointless in general.

It required something, and even in its nerfed buffed state it is far better then it was. Heal per second means nothing anyway.

Why is TU good:
- 2 condition clears
- highest HPS in the game on a skill that works as a special effect regeneration which is very good in a sustained fight.
- It works well will bark skin and protection allowing more 90% + HP up time.
- It is in a very good skill group of survival skills so its a natural pick if you take those, and most of the time you will if you are any kind of damage dealer

Healing spring:
- water field
- very good team condition clearing on point
- healing goes up exponentially with the number of people present and coordinated burst spikes

WHaO:
- it gave swiftness and regen
- do you really think that was enough?? When you have heals like Withdraw, Healing turret

WHaO:
- it gave swiftness and regen
- do you really think that was enough?? When you have heals like Withdraw, Healing turret

Healing turret? really? you’re talking about healing spring that is basically giving the same as healing turret + condi cleanse and you ask for more to WHaO?

Well, by being a shout, WHaO is :
- a burst heal with short CD : 16s (I’m sure you understand that thieves would be jealous of the healing value)
- a condi cleanse with the right rune set
- a way to gain swiftness and regen.

That was enough.

Honestly, I find the change to be somewhat of a nerf. Necromancers are very populat at the moment and healing just provides more boons for the necromancer to corrupt.

it didn’t need a change really, but the original change was a dynamic one, so whoever designed it, either a. did it with extreme intention, knowing what would come, or b. the exact opposite, darts at a dartboard change, with no forethought.

When you look at the current version though, now I cant help but think, “what a pointless buff.”

In this version of the skill, even if your pet managed to have all of the available boons on it, it wouldn’t be worth using the heal for the boonswap.

The best part about the initial change was that it gave you options. Do I want to burn my heal for some extra power even though I’m at full health? Do i want to swap pets and burn heal for even more power? Does the benefit of swapping pets for might/quickness outweigh the 15 seconds i’ll be stuck on the new pet?

Now though, its back to only using for just health gain, no interesting gameplay here.

Heal as one needed something extra to make it worth taking over TU, Ranger needed better access to boons and needed more interaction with their pet.

I’m guessing thats the reasoning.

WHaO is already better than TU in pvp because it frees up a rune set since you get mobility from WHaO. + with regen it actually heals more than TU

Eurantien.4632:

WHaO is already better than TU in pvp because it frees up a rune set since you get mobility from WHaO. + with regen it actually heals more than TU

I would argue not all can afford, (or at the very least, feel like they can afford) to go without the extra condi cleanse from TU though, seeing as it is the most useful low CD Survival skill, tied to our best condi cleanse mechanic.

Zatoichi.1049:

Eurantien.4632:

WHaO is already better than TU in pvp because it frees up a rune set since you get mobility from WHaO. + with regen it actually heals more than TU

I would argue not all can afford, (or at the very least, feel like they can afford) to go without the extra condi cleanse from TU though, seeing as it is the most useful low CD Survival skill, tied to our best condi cleanse mechanic.

Then run trooper runes and you’ll still get 1 condi cleanse.

Personally I find the swiftness from WHaO outweighs the cleansing from TU.

Anyways I’m just scared now that devs will change the cooldown on WHaO just because of these buffs…

Afaik players were able to get +20 secs of quickness with the skill, not working as intended

bloodpyrope.8630:

Zatoichi.1049:

Eurantien.4632:

WHaO is already better than TU in pvp because it frees up a rune set since you get mobility from WHaO. + with regen it actually heals more than TU

I would argue not all can afford, (or at the very least, feel like they can afford) to go without the extra condi cleanse from TU though, seeing as it is the most useful low CD Survival skill, tied to our best condi cleanse mechanic.

Then run trooper runes and you’ll still get 1 condi cleanse.

Personally I find the swiftness from WHaO outweighs the cleansing from TU.

Anyways I’m just scared now that devs will change the cooldown on WHaO just because of these buffs…

but now you are running a defensive rune with a tough/vit, when you could be running pack, travelers, ranger, hoelbraak, etc. If you like shout/trooper setup cool, doesn’t make it the best

these are all just options. different options suit different playstyles, there are many competitive builds that run different setups. My argument is WHaO is not “better” than TU

Zatoichi.1049:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Zatoichi.1049:

Eurantien.4632:

WHaO is already better than TU in pvp because it frees up a rune set since you get mobility from WHaO. + with regen it actually heals more than TU

I would argue not all can afford, (or at the very least, feel like they can afford) to go without the extra condi cleanse from TU though, seeing as it is the most useful low CD Survival skill, tied to our best condi cleanse mechanic.

Then run trooper runes and you’ll still get 1 condi cleanse.

Personally I find the swiftness from WHaO outweighs the cleansing from TU.

Anyways I’m just scared now that devs will change the cooldown on WHaO just because of these buffs…

but now you are running a defensive rune with a tough/vit, when you could be running pack, travelers, ranger, hoelbraak, etc. If you like shout/trooper setup cool, doesn’t make it the best

these are all just options. different options suit different playstyles, there are many competitive builds that run different setups. My argument is WHaO is not “better” than TU

Yeah it just comes down to what playstyle you want. I run TU sometimes, but it’s not my preferred heal, but I can see why others like it.

But I think the point of the thread was to address the fact that WHaO was no better or worse than TU or other heals (except water spirit). So why was this one heal singled out for special treatment at all?

bloodpyrope.8630:

Zatoichi.1049:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Zatoichi.1049:

Eurantien.4632:

WHaO is already better than TU in pvp because it frees up a rune set since you get mobility from WHaO. + with regen it actually heals more than TU

I would argue not all can afford, (or at the very least, feel like they can afford) to go without the extra condi cleanse from TU though, seeing as it is the most useful low CD Survival skill, tied to our best condi cleanse mechanic.

Then run trooper runes and you’ll still get 1 condi cleanse.

Personally I find the swiftness from WHaO outweighs the cleansing from TU.

Anyways I’m just scared now that devs will change the cooldown on WHaO just because of these buffs…

but now you are running a defensive rune with a tough/vit, when you could be running pack, travelers, ranger, hoelbraak, etc. If you like shout/trooper setup cool, doesn’t make it the best

these are all just options. different options suit different playstyles, there are many competitive builds that run different setups. My argument is WHaO is not “better” than TU

Yeah it just comes down to what playstyle you want. I run TU sometimes, but it’s not my preferred heal, but I can see why others like it.

But I think the point of the thread was to address the fact that WHaO was no better or worse than TU or other heals (except water spirit). So why was this one heal singled out for special treatment at all?

yeah I agree, I said above it didn’t need to be touched at all, it was a good heal, and still is a “good” heal (the current boon share is so low its not really relevant) but whoever did want to touch it either a. had a vision of something new or powerful, or b. didn’t have a clue what they were doing.

also, Eura, you didn’t put :
Pro: 6 sec Fury for TU. That’s a big pro for certain builds

Throwing in such a weird wild card type buff like what they did to WHaO just goes to show that the devs are oblivious of ranger mechanics….any Ranger who had been playing for longer than a few months could have told them it would result in quickness/might/protection stackings.

Well, if you are running the now standard WS, NM and BM build, you have enough passive procs of regeneration from oakheart salve and the NM minor. SO the 440ish HP/s, 2 condi clears and fury are stronger then the simple WHaO.

It came down to a choice between TU and HS. TU as a selfish reliable heal over time that is very resilient to poison and HS as a condition clear, that can even be self sufficient sometimes, and team utility.

I like the approach for WHaO an its aim to reinforce boons and a positive relationship with the pet. Just increase or remove the 3 might cap.

lol I know this doesn’t add much to the thread, but I just went on my Warrior, not even level 80, fairly new. After skimming metabuilds for the PS Might build I basically just facerolled for 25 might. If Rangers can’t burst, tank, roam, or support what are they supposed to do? Druids I guess can heal but…

Well it depends really, TU and the WS line are really strong outside of top tier metagame comps, where people are running burn guards, condi engis, condi mesmers, and venom thieves even (trap/condi rangers, condi necros etc etc, list goes on).

Regardless of that, a traited TU does have some semblance of offensive prowess too with it’s more than 25% uptime on fury. Even in top tier where the most condi oriented builds are celestial and don’t have super high outputs, TU still has the potential to cleanse poison for the full heal whereas running WHaO makes you have to either burn a dodge or wait for the poison to drop off (or use some other sort of cleanse).

Regardless of that debate (which ultimately boils down to time, place, and tier for which options to use for builds), on topic:
WHaO didn’t need a buff in healing, but ANet probably figured the ranger class is lacking a gimmick. So now we have a gimmick I guess.
On the brightside, strength runes are definitely usable now. You can make a build that sacrifices all sorts of survival to do really good damage (for a ranger). So I guess that’s a plus?

Dunno. If I build the right way with the new WHaO and do a simple pet swap and heal with clarion and zephyr’s speed, I can put out 12k Rapid Fires on squishies (Berserker with Strength Runes), so we definitely have out gimmick.

I don’t know if it was mentioned already but after the update is looks to me as if HaO now is a mirror of Forifying Bond with the added cap of 3might, I would also say I am not sure why they decided to buff it in the first place but what happened now is just rude and leaves a very sour taste, they should have just made it mirror the bond flat out that would be enough I think, it wouldn’t be perma anything but atleast you could stack some solid might with it the way it is now it’s completely useless if you think of it for boonsharing really cause the durations are simply too short, frankly I think the durations should be increased on fortifying bond aswell not much but a few seconds on everything aside from might.