Guild Wars 2

I’m just curious what people’s opinions are on the Ranger’s overall mobility and would something as simple as changing Heal As One to be a skill more similar to a Thief’s withdraw be a better fit?

Personally, I don’t want the Ranger to be more mobile than Thieves overall (in combat), but I do feel this class should be the fastest ground speed class in the game and certainly more mobile than they currently are.

If Heal as One were changed to a Thief’s withdraw, only we would leap forward and it granted a long durataion swiftness I think it would be a really great addition overall.

i think the Mobility is fine, its just a spike heal atm like it was in gw but instead of a Elite skill its just normal heal.

they can ether add cure 1 condition , of a Select sort , like Bleed,Torment,confusion(but of course it’ll be up to the Clense priority in a Order of Torment,Confusion, then bleed.)

removing the torment first, then confusion are one of the conditions i hate most, it effects a rangers mobility so much damage wise , it can passivily force us to kite slower.
keeping the current healing power scaling and adding the remove one of the following in order torment, confusion and bleed last could also give us some better protection vs Condi spikes currently we can only remove 4-6 (by blowing all Utiliy + a Entangle Elite if you have it as a elite) remember these skills have a Minimum of 32 cooldown traited(LR) 48secs Qz and currently 120(traited for entangle) with only a Grandmaster trait or SoR for passive removal every 10secs leaves quite a large gap concering condi removal if you take the latter , of just EB and SoR , or Sotf+SoR .
there isn’t really a middle ground this might cover it,

reason why i said these conditions only, making heal as one remove any sort on condition would be way too powerful combined with SotF and with these chosen conditions , it’ll give us options rather than to put our LR Or Qz on cooldown when you need it most or just generaly wasting it because you need a condi clear at the cost of one of your escapes or bursts.

that would go well with Evasive purity that also cleanse poison+blind.

this little change and limited change could let us kite more Effectivly but not better vs these condition types .

and makes it look better and not so bland.

We are already ridiculously mobile, especially if you utilize Sword 2 properly.

However, as much as i would LOVE to have a withdraw heal on ranger, i feel like we’d become insanely stupidly strong with it (especially our ranged builds in PvP) however given our other heal options i don’t think it’d actually pull a healing signet and dominate the heal slot.

@Zenos the difference between GW1 and GW2 though is that in GW1 Heal as One, although still a weaker Heal, had a considerably shorter CD and activation time (1s activation vs 3s, 5s cd vs 10scd) not to mention that it was a burst heal vs a sustain heal (both had advantages). Where in GW2 it not only heals for less, but it has a longer cast time, AND the CD is too long to warrant using it over Troll Unguent all things considered.

Heal as One needs SOMETHING to make it worth taking, because at the moment there’s really no reason to take the heal over Troll Unguent.

I will again, quote myself from one of my older threads:

Rym.1469:

1. Heal As One – This healing skill lies in the cellar covered with webs, for now. It’s uninteresting. Rough heal. Let’s change it.

Escape (15-20s cd, 1/4 cast time)
Heal yourself when leaping backwards. For next 4(5 – ?) seconds, if you’re struck by attack within 360 range, your pet will immidiately intervene, charging towards you, freeing you from Cripple, (Chill/Blind – ? ) and Immobilize effects, stunning up to 5 targets within 360 range around you for 1.5 second.

Why?

hide spoiler

Now this is something not categorized. I try to avoid healing skills which are affected by traiting to make them powerful because it’s something Ranger is already really plagued by. Developers tend to balance categorized skills always “at the best performance” inlcuding all possible traits, perfect outcome. We know that there’s nothing like perfection and I don’t want skill skipped by most of players, just because they’re not traited for it.

Heal itself is a leap backwards, without combo finisher of any sorts. It works similar to Acid Bomb, but Travel distance should be around 700-900. The main idea of it is, surprise, escaping.

By writing it up like this, I achieved couple interesting niches.

Firstly, it’s a long gapmaker, so needed for kiting and using bows to best degree.

Secondly, it’s not an evade and doesn’t cleanse movement impairing effects on first cast, making it counterable. It allows to, in theory, throw in a little bit more powerful healing than similar skills.

Thirdly, it’s our lifesaver from Thieves and Warriors, professions which hamper our kiting the most. It can, in theory (not baseline!) when used against unaware opponent, mindlessly gapclosing:

-Frees us from anti-kite conditions like Cripple and Immobilize (Blind/Chill is not mandatory. It could be, but I’d like to make Chill more dangerous and allow Glacial Heart Guards/Necromancers/Chill Rangers to not be outclassed)
-Punishes mindless gapclosing with quick (Pet, non-MC)stun
-Brings our pet close to us, allowing it to react

It can also be used offensivly as an AoE interrupt, forcing hit and stun.

Don’t want to give Ranger the advantage? Keep calm and wait for effect to wear off, then gapclose.

So not Withdraw. Withdraw is pretty lame since it has barely any counter and is another evade. We don’t need more rolling.

What rangers “need” is a short CD heal with multiple uses much like mesmer mantras.

That would offset our massive lack of burst heal.

Skill Cooldown – 25 seconds
Skill type: Survival
Gain 3 seconds of protection upon channeling
Channel time; 2.5 sec
Charge lasts; 3 minutes
Number of Charges: 3
Charge “CD” – 2 seconds (to prevent spammage)
Healing: 3000 + 0.25xhealing power

If we get that, ranger as a whole would be “nearly perfect”.

That or reduce CD of Heal as One and classify it as “Survival Skill” so we can use it with SotF. That would go a long way too.

Durzlla.6295:

We are already ridiculously mobile, especially if you utilize Sword 2 properly.

However, as much as i would LOVE to have a withdraw heal on ranger, i feel like we’d become insanely stupidly strong with it (especially our ranged builds in PvP) however given our other heal options i don’t think it’d actually pull a healing signet and dominate the heal slot.

@Zenos the difference between GW1 and GW2 though is that in GW1 Heal as One, although still a weaker Heal, had a considerably shorter CD and activation time (1s activation vs 3s, 5s cd vs 10scd) not to mention that it was a burst heal vs a sustain heal (both had advantages). Where in GW2 it not only heals for less, but it has a longer cast time, AND the CD is too long to warrant using it over Troll Unguent all things considered.

Heal as One needs SOMETHING to make it worth taking, because at the moment there’s really no reason to take the heal over Troll Unguent.

well , since we can’t add regen to it , or other boons we already have those, the add 1 condi removal would fill a gap .
anets really got only a few options.
if the heal is the only thing that bothers people they can up it to 7.5-8.5k heal base and keep the cooldown as 20secs , rangers have a 16khp base and a 8k would be a 50% heal every 20secs. it’ll be good

second
they could Reduce the cooldown to 15secs
keep the healing as is. 6.25khp
then heal the pet for 3.75k
if the pet is dead , it is revived at 50% hp.

with the lower pet heal and revive, we could trigger Beastmasters bond without too much Risk of loosing the pet.?

Prysin, what are the charges you’re mentioning? You mean to allow us to use that heal 3x?

I also agree that simply changing Heal as One into a .5 second cast 20 second heal that is counted as a survival skill would resolve all of its problems.

Rym’s idea is effectively withdraw but with some Ranger flair thrown in. I would still much prefer the movement be forward facing though. One of the largest problems as a ranged Ranger I have is positioning myself and escaping a train. Even with S+D, the evades simply aren’t enough to get away from 2 Warriors with Hammers.

It’s this type of mobility I think the class needs. Something to counter being trained by several opponents at once and repositioning to take better advantage of our ranged weapons. This is why I often suggest simply giving Rangers fast hands would likely have been all power Rangers needed (offensively).

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin, what are the charges you’re mentioning? You mean to allow us to use that heal 3x?

I also agree that simply changing Heal as One into a .5 second cast 20 second heal that is counted as a survival skill would resolve all of its problems.

Rym’s idea is effectively withdraw but with some Ranger flair thrown in. I would still much prefer the movement be forward facing though. One of the largest problems as a ranged Ranger I have is positioning myself and escaping a train. Even with S+D, the evades simply aren’t enough to get away from 2 Warriors with Hammers.

It’s this type of mobility I think the class needs. Something to counter being trained by several opponents at once and repositioning to take better advantage of our ranged weapons. This is why I often suggest simply giving Rangers fast hands would likely have been all power Rangers needed.

Disagree on Withdraw. Gapmaking leap back works differently than roll backwards. The jump can be used, similar to Acid Bomb, in many interesting scenarios and also proc Soft Fall trait if you take a little damage, making it interesting.

Withdraw is a plain evade+heal+cleanse skill with no really interesting stuff in it.

Escape would not only allow you to get away alive from people chasing you if they’re NOT aware (stun, cleanse), but also, as I described under spoiler, could be used as a interrupt, forcing someone to hit you in order to AoE stun.

And it’s not plain and simple. It has many counterplays and doesn’t punish low-mobility professions too much since if they don’t trigger the stun and cleanse, ability’s usefulness goes down.

As a side note, I’ve never had problems with U-turn in order to leap whenever I like on Engineer. Could be years of playing hunter, but haven’t seen many people struggling with it either.

Right, you can easily turn around and leaping forward or backward is irrelevent. I often use Withdraw on a Thief to engage for example.

But with your leap, it would have to be substantial. Something like quick shots distance isn’t enough imo. Is that all you had in mind?

ps. I can’t click the spoiler tag. It’s function is blocked at work. Friend said you mentioned in it to be 900 range which is fine.

It’d be pretty OP. Withdraw + LR for 1.5 seconds of straight dodging + stun break + condi cleanse and the added benefit of “see ya.”

Atherakhia.4086:

I’m just curious what people’s opinions are on the Ranger’s overall mobility and would something as simple as changing Heal As One to be a skill more similar to a Thief’s withdraw be a better fit?

Personally, I don’t want the Ranger to be more mobile than Thieves overall (in combat), but I do feel this class should be the fastest ground speed class in the game and certainly more mobile than they currently are.

If Heal as One were changed to a Thief’s withdraw, only we would leap forward and it granted a long durataion swiftness I think it would be a really great addition overall.

I don’t think it would be OP, per say, but I don’t see another profession getting the same heal.

And no class will ever be as mobile as a thief until they get something like Infiltrator’s Arrow (at least in sPvP).

I have actually thought about this a few times and I still really want withdraw on ranger.

It’d be great to use with longbow.

Heal As One: Heal yourself and your pet, for a time, you and your pet will exchange health bars.

To clarify:
Heal, and after healing, if your pet takes damage, you will instead take that damage, if you take damage, your pet will instead take that damage. Say for 8 seconds, someone is attacking you after you heal, but it is doing no damage to you, it is doing damage to your pet instead. So if an enemy or opponent want to kill you, they will need to focus your pet instead. This could be very powerful, but it could also be easily exploited if people learned to recognize it. And I think it would add interesting counter play.

But as for using a heal similar to Withdraw, I don’t think it would be OP but I think it would be nice to go for more original ideas. We are already quite similar to Thieves honestly, I would rather we stay our own profession.

Just lower the CD of Lightning Reflex to like 25-30s. Or make the evade on SB work in a similar way.

Ranger’s lack of ability to kite (when compared to other classes like Mesmer/Thief, or Warrior even) has always puzzled me, when it’s supposed to be the preemptive ranged dpser.

roamzero.9486:

Just lower the CD of Lightning Reflex to like 25-30s. Or make the evade on SB work in a similar way.

Ranger’s lack of ability to kite (when compared to other classes like Mesmer/Thief, or Warrior even) has always puzzled me, when it’s supposed to be the preemptive ranged dpser.

People thinking Mesmer, warrior, and thief being able to kite better than a ranger has always puzzled me…

roamzero.9486:

Just lower the CD of Lightning Reflex to like 25-30s. Or make the evade on SB work in a similar way.

Ranger’s lack of ability to kite (when compared to other classes like Mesmer/Thief, or Warrior even) has always puzzled me, when it’s supposed to be the preemptive ranged dpser.

The game has been out for nearly 2 years and you still fail to realize that melee out damages ranged for the ranger? Forget about whatever description Anet gave for the class, they seem to know least about the class when it comes to balancing, so a bad source for any info that’s ranger related. Also, you are using the wrong utilities and build if you can’t kite. Ranger has so much access to soft CC is’s scary. You should try utilizing it sometime =p

warriorjrd.8695:

roamzero.9486:

Just lower the CD of Lightning Reflex to like 25-30s. Or make the evade on SB work in a similar way.

Ranger’s lack of ability to kite (when compared to other classes like Mesmer/Thief, or Warrior even) has always puzzled me, when it’s supposed to be the preemptive ranged dpser.

The game has been out for nearly 2 years and you still fail to realize that melee out damages ranged for the ranger? Forget about whatever description Anet gave for the class, they seem to know least about the class when it comes to balancing, so a bad source for any info that’s ranger related. Also, you are using the wrong utilities and build if you can’t kite. Ranger has so much access to soft CC is’s scary. You should try utilizing it sometime =p

I was comparing ranged builds to other ranged builds, not melee counterparts. Mesmers with staff and offhand pistol for example, Thieves with P/D or SB, Warriors with LB or Rifle + GS, all those generally outperform a LB Ranger currently as far as positioning /kiting goes (unless you can land LB stealth 100% of the time, gl with that..).

And you should try utilizing a Ranger’s soft CC against a profession that gets -98% duration on said CC :p

roamzero.9486:

warriorjrd.8695:

roamzero.9486:

Just lower the CD of Lightning Reflex to like 25-30s. Or make the evade on SB work in a similar way.

Ranger’s lack of ability to kite (when compared to other classes like Mesmer/Thief, or Warrior even) has always puzzled me, when it’s supposed to be the preemptive ranged dpser.

The game has been out for nearly 2 years and you still fail to realize that melee out damages ranged for the ranger? Forget about whatever description Anet gave for the class, they seem to know least about the class when it comes to balancing, so a bad source for any info that’s ranger related. Also, you are using the wrong utilities and build if you can’t kite. Ranger has so much access to soft CC is’s scary. You should try utilizing it sometime =p

I was comparing ranged builds to other ranged builds, not melee counterparts. Mesmers with staff and offhand pistol for example, Thieves with P/D or SB, Warriors with LB or Rifle + GS, all those generally outperform a LB Ranger currently as far as positioning /kiting goes (unless you can land LB stealth 100% of the time, gl with that..).

And you should try utilizing a Ranger’s soft CC against a profession that gets -98% duration on said CC :p

I haven’t seen a warrior use melandru for ages, and if they use it outside of a zerg, they are just a noob. Besides warrior is one of the easiest classes to kill solo, I find ranger roaming can generally kill most warriors. I still do sometimes run into the odd well played warrior, but they are far and few between.

I do somewhat understand how soft CC doesn’t always work, but it will still slow them down slightly, and every other class aside from warrior won’t have that much resistance either. However ranger has access to so many evades and movement skills that make it one of the most, if not the most, mobile or agile class when in combat. Sword alone can kite well, SB has an evade and a cripple. Rangers can kite very, very well, much better than a warrior, a thief, and a mesmer, you just have to use the right spec.

Kiting means that you do pressure damage during your movement.

Sword does absolutely no pressure during retreating.

Stop assuming that Kiting=Disengage.

Prysin.8542:

or reduce CD of Heal as One and classify it as “Survival Skill” so we can use it with SotF. That would go a long way too.

This sounds more than good to me although the cd probably shouldn’t be reduced since it would then be affected by the trait reducing cd if you pick that (wich you certainly would using this heal)

Manekk.6981:

Prysin.8542:

or reduce CD of Heal as One and classify it as “Survival Skill” so we can use it with SotF. That would go a long way too.

This sounds more than good to me although the cd probably shouldn’t be reduced since it would then be affected by the trait reducing cd if you pick that (wich you certainly would using this heal)

Almost all other professions have at least one mediocre super short cd heal.

Rym.1469:

Kiting means that you do pressure damage during your movement.

Sword does absolutely no pressure during retreating.

Stop assuming that Kiting=Disengage.

THANK YOU.

Rym.1469:

Kiting means that you do pressure damage during your movement.

Sword does absolutely no pressure during retreating.

Stop assuming that Kiting=Disengage.

You need a gap to kite, and sword is great for that. All of our ranged weapons have CC on them, so i’m completely befuddled when people say we can’t kite and maintain that gap.

Only one change needs to be made heal as one and that’s making a survival skill. That way it would interact with wilderness knowledge dropping it so 16s and also survival of the fittest, allowing it to cleanse conditions and grant fury.

Rym.1469:

Kiting means that you do pressure damage during your movement.

Sword does absolutely no pressure during retreating.

Stop assuming that Kiting=Disengage.

That doesn’t mean that Sword is bad for Kiting, sword opens up the distance bug time and can secure you a spot at ranged after you were doing whatever the kitten you were doing with sword.

Not to mention, we also have a pet so technically you could be dealing pressure damage while staying away from them depending on how you’re built.

Prysin.8542:

Manekk.6981:

Prysin.8542:

or reduce CD of Heal as One and classify it as “Survival Skill” so we can use it with SotF. That would go a long way too.

This sounds more than good to me although the cd probably shouldn’t be reduced since it would then be affected by the trait reducing cd if you pick that (wich you certainly would using this heal)

Almost all other professions have at least one mediocre super short cd heal.

Yeah but it couldn’t be considered mediocre if it had a supershort cd, it’s a pretty strong heal as it is on a 20 s cd, if it was made a survival skill it would be 16s that sounds like a good number to me is all, you could have a heal skill that would be the strongest heal over time we have with sotf also removing 2 conditions every 16 s, that sounds pretty darn strong to me it would be our best heal disregarding group benefits for the spring.

Durzlla.6295:

Rym.1469:

Kiting means that you do pressure damage during your movement.

Sword does absolutely no pressure during retreating.

Stop assuming that Kiting=Disengage.

That doesn’t mean that Sword is bad for Kiting, sword opens up the distance bug time and can secure you a spot at ranged after you were doing whatever the kitten you were doing with sword.

Not to mention, we also have a pet so technically you could be dealing pressure damage while staying away from them depending on how you’re built.

Here, highligted incorrect term explained in post quoted by you.

Sword is there for disengaging, retreating or catching your opponent. It cannot be used for kiting since:

1. It’s a pure melee weapon.
2. There’s something called 10 second weaponswap cooldown.

If ANet would decide that Ranger doesn’t need that cooldown, then kk, sword can be used for kiting.

Rym.1469:

Durzlla.6295:

Rym.1469:

Kiting means that you do pressure damage during your movement.

Sword does absolutely no pressure during retreating.

Stop assuming that Kiting=Disengage.

That doesn’t mean that Sword is bad for Kiting, sword opens up the distance bug time and can secure you a spot at ranged after you were doing whatever the kitten you were doing with sword.

Not to mention, we also have a pet so technically you could be dealing pressure damage while staying away from them depending on how you’re built.

Here, highligted incorrect term explained in post quoted by you.

Sword is there for disengaging, retreating or catching your opponent. It cannot be used for kiting since:

1. It’s a pure melee weapon.
2. There’s something called 10 second weaponswap cooldown.

If ANet would decide that Ranger doesn’t need that cooldown, then kk, sword can be used for kiting.

Now you’re just ignoring what people are saying and just continuing to type whatever you think is right.

Rym.1469:

Kiting means that you do pressure damage during your movement.

Sword does absolutely no pressure during retreating.

Stop assuming that Kiting=Disengage.

Actually, doing damage has absolutely nothing to do with kiting. Kiting simply refers to maintaining distance from a target while involved in combat and forcing the target’s position to be displaced. Therefore disengaging potential is therefore directly a form of kiting if the target follows.

Kiting = disengage but disengage != kiting.

While I would personally love Withdraw on Ranger, I don’t necessarily agree with it on the basis we have so many evades already comparatively.

BUT, that said, Heal as One is terrible really. I think that a good alteration would be something like, with its current value and effect, with an added effect of:

“If you or your pet are below 50% health with this skill is activated, remove Cripple/Chill/Immobilize from both you and your pet. (Optional Part) Both you and your pet gain 5 seconds of Regen.”

While with a few traits, and a heal/utility option, Rangers do have pretty impeccable condition removal already. However, the overall potency and/or RNG factors can be severely limiting even compared to the output of a single player you go up against. While conditions in the game weren’t meant to be perma-cleansed, it would be nice to be able to have options that allow “guaranteed mobility,” even if that mobility isn’t an additional effect, but a conditional hard counter to impairing effects that would allow mobility to remain unhampered, especially in a situation where mobility would be most vital. In those situations, we only have 1 go to panic cleanse really (SoR) to save us, and at times that can even be completely unreliable due to the imo strange 600 range limitation.

Since I (individually, but we collectively as a community; me being a part of that community) had to say it a million times about Rapid Fire before the devs finally initiated any action on it, it’s time to start on the next skill: Heal as One’s cast time does not justify its output.

How bout:

Heal as One:
15sec CD
You and your pet Heal for “X”
Evade for 3/4 sec for you AND YOUR PET

You dodge roll (backwards / forwards) and recover health. While Heal as One is equipped, condition duration for chill, cripple, immob is reduced by 33% for you and your pet.

Thoughts?

Raven.9603:

How bout:

Heal as One:
15sec CD
You and your pet Heal for “X”
Evade for 3/4 sec for you AND YOUR PET

You dodge roll (backwards / forwards) and recover health. While Heal as One is equipped, condition duration for chill, cripple, immob is reduced by 33% for you and your pet.

Thoughts?

So you’re saying Heal as One should go from useless to the most used heal for rangers? Yeah no….

Personally I think Heal as One should be the go to Beast Master heal/be more pet focused.

I always liked the idea of “if your pet is dead you Rez it at 50% health.” Being added to it plus a lower cast time if your pet is alive.

we have 3 heals (spirit doesnt count because like all the new heals, its a POS). one of them is going to be “the most used.” Is TU a problem simply because its the most used in the current meta?

HS would still be far better for groups and condi cleaning and TU should still have far superior total healing / time, so I think while a mobility heal might be popular it wouldnt flat out trounce the other two. its not like every thief runs withdraw, and this is arguably weaker than withdraw.

As far a BM heal, I dont know about you but when I play BM I dont really have a dead pet. The added stats, shorter swap cd and natural healing tend to give the breathing room needed to keep even dps pets alive barring an entire zerg or cheesy boss mechanics.

Being able to rez a pet might have a lot of OP implications, at least on such a short CD. Imagine all the champions you could solo (even more) effortlessly if you could rez a pet every 20sec? Plus it throws the whole condition spammer strategy of killing the pet to remove empathic bond out the window.

EDIT: As far as BM healing, they could make Heal as One a shout. Perhaps one that clears conditions from your pet (synergizes with Empathic Bond, Natures Voice, and BM’s shout mastery trait, which when taken further synergizes with “on heal” runes).

Our Spirit heal is actually a ludicrous amount of healing for you AND your team, it heals for significantly more AoE than HS, but lacks the condi cleanse.

sometimes i wonder if you post just to play the devils advocate. potential healing and effective healing very different.

Thematically tu should be a survival skill (it was in gw1). But since tu is fine and doesnt need any improvements, i really Like the idea of turning heal as one into a survival skill (if traited the condi remove should apply After the healing to add counterplay). This alone Would make it viable Even with the horrible casttime.

Domey.9804:

Thematically tu should be a survival skill (it was in gw1). But since tu is fine and doesnt need any improvements, i really Like the idea of turning heal as one into a survival skill (if traited the condi remove should apply After the healing to add counterplay). This alone Would make it viable Even with the horrible casttime.

I’d rather it be a Shout, and TU being the survival one because TU being non survival would be painful to me mentally lol.

People who say sword 2 is mobitlity (in combat, duel or zerg), are very mistaken. There’s a 0,5-1 sec animation delay before you actually move and evade. All damage happening in the first potion of the skill (when the bee’s appear) will land RIGHT onto you. If it’s a stun/immobalize, it even counters the skill completely. I disagree we need thief heal. But the thief heal is the best heal in the game atm. It evades (i dodged 20k attacks with it, with 0 endurance left, massive advantage), it cures impairing effects, (again, massive live saver), it repositions you (can save you, in case of lot of big aoe’s), AND it heals 4600 hp per 15 sec on a fast cast. Heal as one is much weaker then that 5 sec long for barely stronger heal AND much longer cast time. Without all the ‘safe the day’ effects of the thief skill.

Bring Heal as one healing power up to par with ele 15 sec cd skil and thief 15 sec cd one, + make sword 2 actually evade like withdraw does, and i’m a happy ranger.

Better Not touch tu. Its strong the way it is. Heal as one is weak.

And pls People…This topic is about heal skills Not weapon ones. Keep it clean and Maybe a dev reads it.