WvW Ranger melee-train build/guide

WvW Ranger melee-train build/guide

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

As a preface to this build/guide, I want to make clear that the easiest (not necessarily most fun) solution to being a part of a melee train as to roll a meta guardian. They are pretty much made for the melee train, that being said I know a lot of you guys love to play your main in all areas of your game play. If your main happens to be a Ranger, and you happen to be one of those players that does like to play your main in all areas including WvW, I would encourage you to read on.

So first off, this build would be most popular on the higher tier servers where “blobbing or melee train” is the way you accomplish your goals. So if you are a roamer or solo player that doesn’t want to be involved in all that, this build probably wont do anything for you. I have play tested this build for some time now, and found that it had great results. With the upcoming changes to Ranger GS and signets in a few days, this build will become even more viable.

Here is a link I made to give the details of the build, the build is in the “budget” form assuming all gear is exotic and I chose the much cheaper Dolyak Rune over the obviously better Melandru Rune. Please take a look to get familiar with the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBhYDbkRlGWrYxfFuWDMIUrHg4NAa/CnQy66eP5VPaF-TVjDwAyvgAyUnonSlXqsM4IBAUZFgDCQAzfIeAAj0IASXRClgo2fgMAmTA-w

Trait Breakdown: 6/0/6/2/0

Marksmanship: IV, VII, XI… signet improvements and good team precision support, XI is getting turned into baseline for all Rangers on Sept. 9. So this will give a chance to slip in more damage post patch.

Wilderness Survival: IV, X, XII… General improved survival traits, and faster recharge on GS for Maul spam. Some might want to try XI in place of XII, but your pet is basically cannon fodder in large fights, so its better to not have any pet reliant traits. Minor traits on this line provide great synergy for this build.

Nature Magic: VI… These 2 trait points could really go anywhere, but it seemed like the smartest option to me. Some small survivability buffs.

Skills Breakdown:

Heal skill is up to you, but I recommend Heal as One due to its short recharge and respectable heal. If you want to be more supportive you could definitely go with Healing Spring, but generally the Eles have the water fields covered.

Full signets in utility slots… Stone will give you a good defense boost on passive and a great “oh crap” emergency invuln skill (don’t use it randomly).

Wild will give you a 3rd source of passive HP regen (+ Dolyak Rune and Mango Pie), but don’t be shy about using it for the Stability and extra damage. I usually use this just as i’m entering the fray.

Renewal should only be used if you really need to break a stun or you have a massive amount of condi on you. 10 seconds sounds like a long time to pulse remove a condition, but ive seen it remove 20stk of bleeds, 15s chills, etc.

Elite skill is RaO: Obvious choice is obvious, beautiful 22s of stability.

(Continue on post #2)

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
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(edited by Kysin.6349)

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

Gear/Consumables breakdown:

This is pretty basic melee train, half knights/half soldiers. Runes focused on defense. I chose Dolyak runes because they are affordable and I like the passive HP regen.

As far as consumables go, it doesn’t really matter, but do have something! Even if it is cheap Mango Pies and Quality Maintenance Oil (again budget build).

When all is said and done, with Dolyak Runes/Mango Pie/Signet of Wild you should be passive ticking about 200 HP per second (330 with Regeneration boon).

Weapon/Sigil breakdown:

Greatsword: This is THE weapon as a Ranger in a melee train, you should have GS equipped literally the whole time you are in the fight. Ride kitten skill 1, the 3rd attack of skill 1 gives you about 1 second of evade (awesome). Which in a melee train can translate to evading anywhere from 1 to 10 hits about every 3 seconds. Spam skill 2 (Maul) every chance you get, it hits like a truck. Skill 3 is great for catching up to the commander, just be careful with what you target. Skill 4/5 are basically never used because they root you and are generally single target skills.
I chose Sigil of Fire for more AoE damage obviously, and the Celerity Sigil will be a confusion for some. However, in a melee train getting 5 kills will happen fast and getting a full 5 seconds of Quickness (with no negatives) not only pours on the damage, but also allows you to spam evades even faster negating even more damage. Sigils are really upto you though, I would suggest a balance between added damage and added survivability. Note: GS is getting a buff to every skill on Sept. 9th

xxxxxx/Warhorn: This is your, mobility outside of combat and buffs while preparing to enter battle. Skill 5 on Warhorn before entering the fray, or keeping up with commander outside of combat. You could easily replace 1h sword with the axe, the only thing you should be using main hand in this set is for charging your Sigil of Perception/BLust/Momentum (full 25 stack on 5 player kills), second sigil is 100% optional. Note Beware skill 1 on 1h sword, it will root you and prevent you from dodging, it has gotten me killed a number of times. Which is why I say never to use it in the melee train. (We all know how crazy 1h sword can be).

Pets:

Simple enough, your pet is going to die fast. I personally use the Fern Hound as a pre-fight regen buff and leave him on passive. And will switch to bear for condi removal if he is alive.

Quick note on melee train tactics:

The safest place you can be is on the commander, stick to him like glue and if you need to back out from taking serious damage give yourself some good distance so you don’t get picked off. Make sure to target the commander to give him the big red reticule, so you can spot him easily. When you see a water field remember you can blast with Warhorn 5.

I hope someone out there makes some use out of this build, I really enjoyed making and tuning it. Normally I wouldn’t post a build on the official forums, but I noticed a lot of Rangers looking for WvW builds.

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
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Posted by: Oak da Vite.9054

Oak da Vite.9054

Your build is good and quite similar to what I use sometimes in a zerg. Though some improvements could easily be made:
Use Spotter instead of Beastmaster’s Might for better group support. Healing Spring is a must in a zerg build. Safe your healing spring for regroup, if you can. Your ranger will survive a hard fight much longer than an ele and your team will be greatful for your water field. Also healing spring already heals more than heal as one when combined with one blast or leap finisher and staying inside for one second. Additionally you can give vigor to your group with the healing spring and Vigorous Renewal. Shared Anguish is not a good skill because it seldomly triggers and you have a good stability uptime anyway.

Use only drakes and bears. With good movement and pet control your pets will survive even hard fights because they benefit from your signets as well. Also use one mass damage pet for your RaO and might stacking. I would advice you to murrelow or river drake. Murrelow has a poison field wich is perfect to be placed in enemy regroups and water fields to reduce their healing. River drake has a blast finisher directly after switching pets and Lightning Breath hits 15 targets within 1 1/2 sec which is also a good burst damage to be used after using SotW.

As runes, I would advice to take Melandru and as food Lemongrass Poultry Soup because you have little condition remove. Otherwise you are dependant on having a good guard in your group.

After the patch the build will change to have even mote Stability uptime:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBhYDbkRtU1wWsrYHW+r/Ku2rdAChaZA8utbhS4YdmE7QK/4KvRC-TVjDwAyvgAyUnA3+D9Uq8SllBHJAgKrAcQECY+DxDIYkGBQ6aSoEkUAMpMC-w

Edit: I also changed some other traits to improve your build.

Da Vite – Miller’s Sound
Last Phoenix [Nix]

(edited by Oak da Vite.9054)

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Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

Not really related to the build in question, but I do have a couple questions since I’ve never used Celerity or Dolyak.

What is the heal for just the 6pc bonus? You mention 200 hps with pies, signet, and rune. So is the heal really only 50?

Does celerity still give a charge if you don’t land the killing blow? If I barrage a zerg is it possible to proc it 10+ times? No icd?

Does

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Conflicting sigils is definitely weird. The celerity I sort of get, but might as well lose perception since you’ll never have a chance to charge it.

I think a LB would be a lot more useful on swap. Barrage does a lot more damage than people are willing to admit, and does a semi decent job of breaking up the tightness of a zerg. RF is going to be a beast after tomorrow. Hunter’s shot is again semi decent at breaking up zergs, although probably less so than even a cripple due to stability spam.

I added entangle, and not muddy terrain, but both are REALLY good at breaking up zergs. The idea is not to lock anyone down permanently, just break up the zerg. I find that using those skills almost always results in at least one kill. This is probably pretty variable for who you’re facing. If you see a bunch of the same guild tags as you approach the enemy zerg, put RaO on. If it’s mostly a PUG zerg, MT and entangle are just absolutely lethal.

With those in mind, I threw this together.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJARTjMq0waFL+rQ1agAha9BUvBAz79Ccuv7QKvKLQtC-TljDwAyPgAyUnonSlXqsM/QAM4ABAUZFgHAQAzfIOCAg0Rc5CAkQJIq9HIDAzEA-w

Edit: I used the original build as a guide, so the underwater weapon makes no sense.

(edited by Fluffball.8307)

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

Your build is good and quite similar to what I use sometimes in a zerg. Though some improvements could easily be made:
Use Spotter instead of Beastmaster’s Might for better group support. Healing Spring is a must in a zerg build. Safe your healing spring for regroup, if you can. Your ranger will survive a hard fight much longer than an ele and your team will be greatful for your water field. Also healing spring already heals more than heal as one when combined with one blast or leap finisher and staying inside for one second. Additionally you can give vigor to your group with the healing spring and Vigorous Renewal. Shared Anguish is not a good skill because it seldomly triggers and you have a good stability uptime anyway.

Use only drakes and bears. With good movement and pet control your pets will survive even hard fights because they benefit from your signets as well. Also use one mass damage pet for your RaO and might stacking. I would advice you to murrelow or river drake. Murrelow has a poison field wich is perfect to be placed in enemy regroups and water fields to reduce their healing. River drake has a blast finisher directly after switching pets and Lightning Breath hits 15 targets within 1 1/2 sec which is also a good burst damage to be used after using SotW.

As runes, I would advice to take Melandru and as food Lemongrass Poultry Soup because you have little condition remove. Otherwise you are dependant on having a good guard in your group.

After the patch the build will change to have even mote Stability uptime:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBhYDbkRtU1wWsrYHW+r/Ku2rdAChaZA8utbhS4YdmE7QK/4KvRC-TVjDwAyvgAyUnA3+D9Uq8SllBHJAgKrAcQECY+DxDIYkGBQ6aSoEkUAMpMC-w

Edit: I also changed some other traits to improve your build.

I thought I already had vigorous renewal instead of shared anguish. Must have missed that, i’ll edit it. I don’t know what Tier you are in WvW, but i’ve never had my pet live more than about 1 minute in a blob and our fights can last 10-15 minutes. And generally movement isn’t up to me, like any good melee train player you need to stay directly on commander. Of course Melandru and Lemongrass is better, but I made this build on the affordable side. I agree on healing spring, it is actually my favorite heal in the game. However, from my experience I need a good emergency burst heal, but yeah they both certainly work. I’ll put it this way, if I was on TS and could call healing spring I would use it (which I often do), but if not on TS then HaO might be a better emergency heal. I just really hate that long cast time on HaO, its absurd.

Thanks for the feedback!

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
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Posted by: Oak da Vite.9054

Oak da Vite.9054

If you want to use a Longbow, you should make a completely different build. longbow/greatsword synergy doesn’t work in zerg-play. You can go either frontline with gs/s+h or gs/a+h or backline with lb/a+h or lb/s+h. Blast-finishers are a must. It is all about combo fields: Might stacking, healing, chaos armor, frost armor, retaliation. Also horn is a good group support with swiftness, might and fury for the group. The worst build for zergs is the most selfish build.

Entangle is quite situational. Immobilize is no problem for a warrior or a guardian. Within a fight the immobilize on the enemy is gone within seconds. Also you will miss your elite when blind is casted on you. Stability is something that gives you mobility and mobility grants survivability in a lake of fields and enemies. Therefore RaO is much stronger with the 25 might stacks it can give additionally to stability, swiftness and fury. For the use of entangle in a zerg fight I would use a completely different build that is more based on survival skills and some condition damage.

Da Vite – Miller’s Sound
Last Phoenix [Nix]

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

I totally disagree with every thing you wrote Oak.

LB isn’t used as the primary weapon. Barrage is DoT, so it compliments the melee encounter perfectly. What advantage does sword have in a zerg? Almost zero, and the WH utility is extremely small compared to having a very long ranged option. I’m sure you’ve already seen this video, but if not check it out. It’s the build the (now sort of outdated) ranger zerg meta build came from.

At the end of the video he shows how LB is used for support in zerg encounters.

RaO vs entangle, like I said it’s situational. RaO doesn’t do you any good if you’re already getting the heavies spamming might, fury, swiftness and stability, which I find to almost always be the case. Snaring people for even a fraction of a second will result in their death most of the time. You won’t kill any warriors with a cripple, but you will kill people by unstacking them. You will also wreck back lines with MT and entangle.

On the other hand, if you’re in a PUG zerg going up against a guild zerg, no way I would not have RaO up at the start of the fight. Get ready for like 400 static fields!

Edit: For clarification, I disagree with your second post. Totally agree with your first post. Your build will definitely work, but mine will too!

(edited by Fluffball.8307)

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

Conflicting sigils is definitely weird. The celerity I sort of get, but might as well lose perception since you’ll never have a chance to charge it.

I think a LB would be a lot more useful on swap. Barrage does a lot more damage than people are willing to admit, and does a semi decent job of breaking up the tightness of a zerg. RF is going to be a beast after tomorrow. Hunter’s shot is again semi decent at breaking up zergs, although probably less so than even a cripple due to stability spam.

I added entangle, and not muddy terrain, but both are REALLY good at breaking up zergs. The idea is not to lock anyone down permanently, just break up the zerg. I find that using those skills almost always results in at least one kill. This is probably pretty variable for who you’re facing. If you see a bunch of the same guild tags as you approach the enemy zerg, put RaO on. If it’s mostly a PUG zerg, MT and entangle are just absolutely lethal.

With those in mind, I threw this together.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJARTjMq0waFL+rQ1agAha9BUvBAz79Ccuv7QKvKLQtC-TljDwAyPgAyUnonSlXqsM/QAM4ABAUZFgHAQAzfIOCAg0Rc5CAkQJIq9HIDAzEA-w

Edit: I used the original build as a guide, so the underwater weapon makes no sense.

Celerity and Perception are not conflicting, you can charge them both. you just cant stack attribute sigils stacks. Entangle is not good at all in large zerg fights, the roots get insta-destroyed. This is specifically designed for melee train, so if you wanted to use LB to build stacks that is fine, but you should not be using anything but GS while in the melee train.

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Celerity and Perception are not conflicting, you can charge them both. you just cant stack attribute sigils stacks. Entangle is not good at all in large zerg fights, the roots get insta-destroyed. This is specifically designed for melee train, so if you wanted to use LB to build stacks that is fine, but you should not be using anything but GS while in the melee train.

Ah thanks. I suspected that was the case, but I’ve never even considered wanting to use celerity!

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on entangle. I get kills with it at an extremely high rate*. If it doesn’t work in your timeslot or guild or whatever, it doesn’t work for you. Like I said, I feel RaO is wasted most of the time due to the boon spam meta.

You should watch that video I posted in response to Oak about the longbow. It’s just a plain better option than your self admittedly useless swap. People’s gut reaction is that LB rangers are useless and barrage is useless and LB rangers are bad people. If you are a bit more objective (again, watch the video which at the time was the highest level of WvW) you might convince yourself to compliment your GS with it.

If you really need the WH, I’d take an axe instead. Sword is only good if you’re going to go commando and untargeted leap solo in to the backlines, which your build is just not aimed at.

*Kills = not killing someone directly with the MT or entangle, but rather unstacking them and then they completely asplode when they get hit by an entire zerg. It’s our contribution to the “hammer” in “hammer train”.

(edited by Fluffball.8307)

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

@Oak I added in the spotter trait, I agree that it is the more viable option.

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

Celerity and Perception are not conflicting, you can charge them both. you just cant stack attribute sigils stacks. Entangle is not good at all in large zerg fights, the roots get insta-destroyed. This is specifically designed for melee train, so if you wanted to use LB to build stacks that is fine, but you should not be using anything but GS while in the melee train.

Ah thanks. I suspected that was the case, but I’ve never even considered wanting to use celerity!

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on entangle. I get kills with it at an extremely high rate*. If it doesn’t work in your timeslot or guild or whatever, it doesn’t work for you. Like I said, I feel RaO is wasted most of the time due to the boon spam meta.

You should watch that video I posted in response to Oak about the longbow. It’s just a plain better option than your self admittedly useless swap. People’s gut reaction is that LB rangers are useless and barrage is useless and LB rangers are bad people. If you are a bit more objective (again, watch the video which at the time was the highest level of WvW) you might convince yourself to compliment your GS with it.

If you really need the WH, I’d take an axe instead. Sword is only good if you’re going to go commando and untargeted leap solo in to the backlines, which your build is just not aimed at.

*Kills = not killing someone directly with the MT or entangle, but rather unstacking them and then they completely asplode when they get hit by an entire zerg.

I’m not disagreeing that LB can be useful in zerg fights, but the entire point of my build is that you run in the melee train. Barrage roots you, so if you stop while training you are going to be sitting there soaking damage while the rest of your group keeps moving. If your counter point is that “Well you need to back out to use your LB” then that just isn’t a melee train build.

Also, if you read the guide I suggest against using 1h sword at all in a zerg fight. It is really just a placeholder that I use to fill stacks.

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
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(edited by Kysin.6349)

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Nope, not my point. Stick with the melee train. But you’re more useful IMO if you put down a barrage beforehand. Seriously, watch the video. It’s literally the origin of your build and the ranger zerg meta. It’s not 100% applicable since he considered the build to be… midline? I guess. But that’s entirely a playstyle thing, you can use the LB however you want. If nothing else, why not take a swap that has a purpose rather than a swap that has no purpose. If you’re holding a gap, LB can put a barrage on it, where as if you’re only using GS you just sit there waiting for the commander to move.

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

I did watch the video, and he is not melee training. He is only in the train for about 5s at a time, he is playing a mid-line hybrid. Every time the train pushes, he is in back-line then he jumps in as the train is falling back. The only time he melees anyone they are already downed. At one point he is running with them using skill 1 on LB (huh what?). That is not at all how you are supposed to play the build I put together here. However, I do agree that LB could have some use if you are funneling the enemy in a tunnel before your commander engages. All that said, i’ll take the WH any day.

Also, that is a pretty small zerg fight, when he ran through the middle trying to get to the commander he would have been dead 5 times over in T1.

We can disagree, that is fine. I simply think that WH is the much better choice in a melee train situation.

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
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(edited by Kysin.6349)

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

I’m not really up on EU but as I understand it there isn’t really a population difference between most of the tiers. It looked to me like that was the main enemy militia, don’t think they had enough room left in map cap to have anything other than some guild groups running around.

Anywho, I guess not much more to be said on it. All the suggestions are out there for all 3 of our builds.

Edit: My build suggestion is actually not my build. I do use dual melee, ha. But in a totally different way.

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

I’m not really up on EU but as I understand it there isn’t really a population difference between most of the tiers. It looked to me like that was the main enemy militia, don’t think they had enough room left in map cap to have anything other than some guild groups running around.

Anywho, I guess not much more to be said on it. All the suggestions are out there for all 3 of our builds.

Edit: My build suggestion is actually not my build. I do use dual melee, ha. But in a totally different way.

All good man, I actually have tried running muddy terrain a few times with mixed results. I think it is good for picking off the randoms that dont have condi duration reduce buffs. But stillllll I like having the stunbreak and 10s condi remove pulse from signet of Renewal much more over MT. Thanks for the discussion.

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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

Thanks for posting this. I recently leveled my first ranger to 80 and I really, really want her to be useful in WvW, but I’m not a roamer. I’ll be trying out your suggestions here!

Isle of Janthir – Knights of the Rose (KoR)

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Thanks for posting this. I recently leveled my first ranger to 80 and I really, really want her to be useful in WvW, but I’m not a roamer. I’ll be trying out your suggestions here!

Set your expectations fairly low for zerging as a ranger if you’ve done it on the other classes first. It is really not where we shine.

If you are on lower tiers, which my server FA has occasionally dabbled with, rangers are actually really strong in zergs though. The less opponents, the stronger rangers get and the more they help their allies.

And with that in mind, consider that my suggestions are for T2 and Kysin’s suggestions are for T1. There is a huge difference. (Just saw you on are IoJ) You can be way more aggressive with pet choices as well, as they won’t die nearly as much. Take pets for their F2s rather than survivability.

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

Thanks for posting this. I recently leveled my first ranger to 80 and I really, really want her to be useful in WvW, but I’m not a roamer. I’ll be trying out your suggestions here!

Glad to hear it! Hope you find a good group to run with. Usually you will find guilds leading melee trains, so keep your eyes out for that!

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Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

Thanks for posting this. I recently leveled my first ranger to 80 and I really, really want her to be useful in WvW, but I’m not a roamer. I’ll be trying out your suggestions here!

Glad to hear it! Hope you find a good group to run with. Usually you will find guilds leading melee trains, so keep your eyes out for that!

Well, I’m on IoJ and in KoR (Knights of the Rose) and we have a pretty good group for WvW. I’ve been maining my necro in WvW, but I think that getting in there with a ranger will just give me a different experience. We’re not T1; usually outnumbered pretty heavily, but it’s always a fun time

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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

Thanks for posting this. I recently leveled my first ranger to 80 and I really, really want her to be useful in WvW, but I’m not a roamer. I’ll be trying out your suggestions here!

Set your expectations fairly low for zerging as a ranger if you’ve done it on the other classes first. It is really not where we shine.

If you are on lower tiers, which my server FA has occasionally dabbled with, rangers are actually really strong in zergs though. The less opponents, the stronger rangers get and the more they help their allies.

And with that in mind, consider that my suggestions are for T2 and Kysin’s suggestions are for T1. There is a huge difference. (Just saw you on are IoJ) You can be way more aggressive with pet choices as well, as they won’t die nearly as much. Take pets for their F2s rather than survivability.

Thanks Fluffball, I’ll reread everything here and try out your suggestions!

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Posted by: Oak da Vite.9054

Oak da Vite.9054

I totally disagree with every thing you wrote Oak.

LB isn’t used as the primary weapon. Barrage is DoT, so it compliments the melee encounter perfectly. What advantage does sword have in a zerg? Almost zero, and the WH utility is extremely small compared to having a very long ranged option. I’m sure you’ve already seen this video, but if not check it out. It’s the build the (now sort of outdated) ranger zerg meta build came from.

At the end of the video he shows how LB is used for support in zerg encounters.

RaO vs entangle, like I said it’s situational. RaO doesn’t do you any good if you’re already getting the heavies spamming might, fury, swiftness and stability, which I find to almost always be the case. Snaring people for even a fraction of a second will result in their death most of the time. You won’t kill any warriors with a cripple, but you will kill people by unstacking them. You will also wreck back lines with MT and entangle.

On the other hand, if you’re in a PUG zerg going up against a guild zerg, no way I would not have RaO up at the start of the fight. Get ready for like 400 static fields!

Edit: For clarification, I disagree with your second post. Totally agree with your first post. Your build will definitely work, but mine will too!

Your build will work, but it is not the best build supportwise. And playing in zergs is mainly about support, kill and not get killed. Your allies will drop, if you cannot blast a waterfield for them or if you cannot finish of enemies because you lack stability. A good build works in a fight against superior numbers and makes you become the winner because of better support and therefore better overall damage and survivability. Ranger is seledom used in frontline because it lacks support compared to other classes. You need to bring all the support you can, to be any useful.
If you bring in one ranger your group gets:

  • 150 Precision from spotter
  • Waterfield with vigor and condition remove
  • Fury, swiftnes, might and explo from warhorn
  • Mass condi remove from SoR if needed
  • Pet support from bear (condi remove), murrelow (poison field) or drake (blast finisher)
  • AOE damage reduction by 16,7 percent as long as the pet lives (it shold survive most fights if not totally outmanned)
  • Highest stability uptime that allows you to access every position on the battlefield to finish of enemies or keep allies alive.

The video you posted is old. I know, he is one of the best players from one of the best guilds, but he is not good at playing a ranger. His pet dies away with no need. He could have easily switched it right before it died, but he didn’t care. It might be resignation, but because of that he lost part of his damage and decreased the survivability of his group.

Also a good commander wouldn’t have left him cast barrage that easily. A ranger casting barrage at midrage would be an easy target for a hammerstun or an immobilize because of the routing. Also damagewise the Longbow is not very good. Using the greasword in meleetrain gives you bigger damage on targets that already have damage and therefore will drop more likely than random targets somewhere else you drop your barrage on. Rapid Fire hardly hit more than one or two targets when he used it. Therefore piercing arrows is a wasted trait in this case. These trait points can better be spent in spotter.

Of course you would be playing like one of the heavies. If you already have too many heavies on your side and you don’t need the buffs from RaO you shouldn’t play frontline ranger, but backline ranger. There you can benefit from your bow, the immobilizes and a lot of stunbreakers. You can fully focus on damage and don’t need to care much about the support. But that would be a completely different build.

Da Vite – Miller’s Sound
Last Phoenix [Nix]

(edited by Oak da Vite.9054)

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Thanks Fluffball, I’ll reread everything here and try out your suggestions!

You can retool with entirely other builds if the ZvZs your going up against aren’t reminiscent of a T1 hammer train. It depends on your timeslot, playstyle, and guild more than anything. Don’t take my suggestions as anything spectacular, it’s just another option. For example I’ve seen spirit rangers hold their own in off-hours.

stuff

We mostly agree on everything. And in reviewing our suggestions we changed things to be more alike than different I think. I have the 2 suggestions that having a useless swap is worse than having a useful swap, and having abilities to break up enemy stacks is a good thing. Take from it what you will!

(edited by Fluffball.8307)

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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

Well if nothing else this will give me a starting point. My guildies can probably give me some guidance once I get used to playing the class a little better.

So, being new to ranger, I note you mention changing the pet during battle in one of your posts above. Does the swapped pet come out with full health? Is this a way to make your pet more valuable/useful in a fight?

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Posted by: Oak da Vite.9054

Oak da Vite.9054

If you switch a pet, the new pet has full health.
If you switch the pet before it dies the CD for the next swich is much lower than if you switch it after it dies.
If both of your pets are dead and your skill for switching is on CD you will loose some utility as the signet of renewal becomes useless and you loose part of your damage as well as the use of the active F2-skill.

Da Vite – Miller’s Sound
Last Phoenix [Nix]

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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

If you switch a pet, the new pet has full health.
If you switch the pet before it dies the CD for the next swich is much lower than if you switch it after it dies.
If both of your pets are dead and your skill for switching is on CD you will loose some utility as the signet of renewal becomes useless and you loose part of your damage as well as the use of the active F2-skill.

OK, thanks! I have to admit I have yet to change my pet during any PvE fighting while leveling, as there just wasn’t any need. Yes, I’m a noob :p

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

If you switch a pet, the new pet has full health.
If you switch the pet before it dies the CD for the next swich is much lower than if you switch it after it dies.
If both of your pets are dead and your skill for switching is on CD you will loose some utility as the signet of renewal becomes useless and you loose part of your damage as well as the use of the active F2-skill.

Just a little clarification, Signet of Renewal passive effect still works with a dead pet. I believe the stunbreak still works as well, just not the condi wipe active.

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
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Posted by: rpfohr.7048

rpfohr.7048

Took me forever to decide on something. Lots of options out there. like SotF builds and such.

But eventually settled on the build Oak da Vite.9054 posted.

Except 3 tweeks

Tweak 1
Axe over sword. I do not trust sword AA in Melee and Axe will have good might stacking from range and hits 3 targets when it gets rough

Tweak 2
I opted for Merrellow instead of Drake

Tweak 3
I opted for MT over sig of renewal. With Brown bear and melandru and food, i dont need the sig of removal condi removal with all the cleansing going on. I also don’t need its stunbreak as I have a passive stunbreak called ENLARGEMENT that procs at 25% when I need it. and gives me stability. I’ll be able to walk out of hard CC. And I have tons of stability already so I don’t put myself in those situations a lot.

Muddy terrain on the other hand is good on choke points and can split up a zerg a little creating a tail. It can also snare the backline. GREAT tool and ability to bring to the frontline.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBhODbkRtU1wWsrYHWes/Ku2rdAChaZA8utbhS4YdmE7QKz6KvRC-TljDwAyPgAOuAAyUnA3+D9Uq8SllBHIAgKrAcQECY+DxDIYkGBQ6YSoEkUAMpMC-w

So if I were to do it Tweak 4 in smaller zergs would be Entangle over RaO. I might consider it for a gvg

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Posted by: warriorjrd.8695

warriorjrd.8695

I totally disagree with every thing you wrote Oak.

LB isn’t used as the primary weapon. Barrage is DoT, so it compliments the melee encounter perfectly. What advantage does sword have in a zerg? Almost zero, and the WH utility is extremely small compared to having a very long ranged option. I’m sure you’ve already seen this video, but if not check it out. It’s the build the (now sort of outdated) ranger zerg meta build came from.

At the end of the video he shows how LB is used for support in zerg encounters.

RaO vs entangle, like I said it’s situational. RaO doesn’t do you any good if you’re already getting the heavies spamming might, fury, swiftness and stability, which I find to almost always be the case. Snaring people for even a fraction of a second will result in their death most of the time. You won’t kill any warriors with a cripple, but you will kill people by unstacking them. You will also wreck back lines with MT and entangle.

On the other hand, if you’re in a PUG zerg going up against a guild zerg, no way I would not have RaO up at the start of the fight. Get ready for like 400 static fields!

Edit: For clarification, I disagree with your second post. Totally agree with your first post. Your build will definitely work, but mine will too!

Your build will work, but it is not the best build supportwise. And playing in zergs is mainly about support, kill and not get killed. Your allies will drop, if you cannot blast a waterfield for them or if you cannot finish of enemies because you lack stability. A good build works in a fight against superior numbers and makes you become the winner because of better support and therefore better overall damage and survivability. Ranger is seledom used in frontline because it lacks support compared to other classes. You need to bring all the support you can, to be any useful.
If you bring in one ranger your group gets:

  • 150 Precision from spotter
  • Waterfield with vigor and condition remove
  • Fury, swiftnes, might and explo from warhorn
  • Mass condi remove from SoR if needed
  • Pet support from bear (condi remove), murrelow (poison field) or drake (blast finisher)
  • AOE damage reduction by 16,7 percent as long as the pet lives (it shold survive most fights if not totally outmanned)
  • Highest stability uptime that allows you to access every position on the battlefield to finish of enemies or keep allies alive.

The video you posted is old. I know, he is one of the best players from one of the best guilds, but he is not good at playing a ranger. His pet dies away with no need. He could have easily switched it right before it died, but he didn’t care. It might be resignation, but because of that he lost part of his damage and decreased the survivability of his group.

Also a good commander wouldn’t have left him cast barrage that easily. A ranger casting barrage at midrage would be an easy target for a hammerstun or an immobilize because of the routing. Also damagewise the Longbow is not very good. Using the greasword in meleetrain gives you bigger damage on targets that already have damage and therefore will drop more likely than random targets somewhere else you drop your barrage on. Rapid Fire hardly hit more than one or two targets when he used it. Therefore piercing arrows is a wasted trait in this case. These trait points can better be spent in spotter.

Of course you would be playing like one of the heavies. If you already have too many heavies on your side and you don’t need the buffs from RaO you shouldn’t play frontline ranger, but backline ranger. There you can benefit from your bow, the immobilizes and a lot of stunbreakers. You can fully focus on damage and don’t need to care much about the support. But that would be a completely different build.

Pet’s don’t actually do anything to the AOE damage you take, they simply take up one of the 5 slots that specific AOE can hit. However it will still do full damage if it hits you and your pet.

I personally see that ranger can be viable as a frontliner but a periphery fighter seems to be a much better suited role for it. But whatever you like to play, ranger can do both, but it can do periphery better imo, especially after patch.


It is not what you do, but how and why you do it that counts.

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Posted by: Oak da Vite.9054

Oak da Vite.9054

Pet’s don’t actually do anything to the AOE damage you take, they simply take up one of the 5 slots that specific AOE can hit. However it will still do full damage if it hits you and your pet.

I personally see that ranger can be viable as a frontliner but a periphery fighter seems to be a much better suited role for it. But whatever you like to play, ranger can do both, but it can do periphery better imo, especially after patch.

In a zerg there will always be more than 5 people running through the AOE. Therefore everytime your pet gets damage from AOE someone else doesn’t. If you switch the pet before it dies the damage is simply neglected.

Ranger can do both – frontline and periphery. Which one is better depends on the playstile and the team composition.

If you like to play with the longbow then you are a periphery player. You need to be cautious and aware of thieves and the enemy frontline. If your positioning or reflexes are not good enough you will be an easy target. You will do more damage than the frontline, but in fights against superior numbers the periphery player will have a lot of trouble to survive.

If you prefer to go melee, you should play in the frontline. Doing this is much more forgiving. You will stick to your commander and give a water field if needed. You can survive as long as warriors. You have less life, but you are doing a lot of evasion on gs aa. You can survive as long as guards. You have less healing skills and blocks, but you are always there when the water field gets many blasts within its long lasting duration. When you get lowlife you get auto-stability and a huge damage reduction on you, letting you survive tough fights much easier.

Da Vite – Miller’s Sound
Last Phoenix [Nix]

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

It doesn’t have to be so black and white. You can use LB from inside the zerg rather than the stereotypical glass cannon ranger hanging out with the eles. Not to beat a dead horse, but… the godspeed video shows what I view as one of the most efficient way to contribute to a zerg fight. Ideally you do something other than just exist and are actively making it harder for the enemies to survive.

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

It doesn’t have to be so black and white. You can use LB from inside the zerg rather than the stereotypical glass cannon ranger hanging out with the eles. Not to beat a dead horse, but… the godspeed video shows what I view as one of the most efficient way to contribute to a zerg fight. Ideally you do something other than just exist and are actively making it harder for the enemies to survive.

And in that fight, Godspeed is not a part of the melee train he is technically backline, but he jumps in to water field and get kill cred on a few downed enemies. I don’t consider that even partially frontline IMO. Like Oak, I have been among the last handful of melee alive in an outnumbered fight over many guards and warriors many times. If you know melee train tactics, you can be a valuable part of the train as a Ranger.

I guess you just think that a ranger should not be front line, but rather backline with the ability to jump into the train and survive for a few seconds? I agree that this can still contribute to the zerg in a great way, but I don’t think it is “better” than true frontline Ranger.

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
-Blackgate

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

In a zerg there will always be more than 5 people running through the AOE. Therefore everytime your pet gets damage from AOE someone else doesn’t. If you switch the pet before it dies the damage is simply neglected.

What is your strategy to keep your pet remotely close to you? Running a tight blob on the commander my pet is often too far behind to be a benefit to the blob.

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
-Blackgate

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

post

I don’t use the build in godspeeds video, but I think it contributes more to the fight than your build does because the entire purpose of your build is to survive. His build has many skills that break up the tightness of enemy stacks. Entangle will get a lot better at doing that in a few hours, especially if someone is using a SotF build/wilderness training build.

There is a lot to be said for simply surviving as a zerg tactic. But I think it’s a waste of a ranger and (obviously) better done with a guardian who can poop out boons left and right. Even though godspeed ultimately quit using ranger, he was making use of some of the unique abilities rangers bring.

I have no doubt you can stay alive till the bitter end. There was an amusing post on reddit a few weeks ago of a guardian on BG frontlining while completely naked via positioning and skill use. I am mostly a roamer, but I do join up with zergs or my guild zerg and frontline with dual melee in full berserkers, and stay alive through positioning and skill use. Since staying on the commander = you’re not particularly in danger in melee, I feel that definitely opens up the options for contributing more to the group and spending less of the build on simply staying alive.

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Posted by: LughLongArm.5460

LughLongArm.5460

I published this build on the “bark skin”-“Enlargment” post and realised it also fits here.
My version of firt line zerg – power ranger.
more damage version:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAR3XjMq0yaHLOsw1aAChaVA0OG6gj1dSsDbdKz6DPBB-TVCBABccEA2T3wlq/E9+DS8AAA4CAklyPGVCywBBgUAsJMC-w

the more tnaky version(i like this 1 better):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAR3XjMq0yaHLOsw1aAChaVA0OG6gj1dSsDbdKz6DPBB-TVCBABccEAie/BOV/RiHAAAXAgsU+xoSQGOIAIqbgUAsJMC-w

The entangle change may make it a reasonble replacment for RAO but as a melee fighter in a zerg the 25 sec stability is very good. You can change to entangle and replace LR with SOTW, also very good. Also keep in mind the extra vitalety from “gurds” buff will boost your crit chance and power even higher(and u’ll have 30k hp with it).

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

I like those, bark skin is so ridiculously good, and the “dual” SotW is a cool concept.

I’m really eager to try mainhand axe in a zerg setting after the update. I honestly don’t imagine it being very good, but it will be fun to experiment with. I made an ascended axe I currently only use occasionally offhand.

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Posted by: Kysin.6349

Kysin.6349

post

I don’t use the build in godspeeds video, but I think it contributes more to the fight than your build does because the entire purpose of your build is to survive. His build has many skills that break up the tightness of enemy stacks. Entangle will get a lot better at doing that in a few hours, especially if someone is using a SotF build/wilderness training build.

There is a lot to be said for simply surviving as a zerg tactic. But I think it’s a waste of a ranger and (obviously) better done with a guardian who can poop out boons left and right. Even though godspeed ultimately quit using ranger, he was making use of some of the unique abilities rangers bring.

I have no doubt you can stay alive till the bitter end. There was an amusing post on reddit a few weeks ago of a guardian on BG frontlining while completely naked via positioning and skill use. I am mostly a roamer, but I do join up with zergs or my guild zerg and frontline with dual melee in full berserkers, and stay alive through positioning and skill use. Since staying on the commander = you’re not particularly in danger in melee, I feel that definitely opens up the options for contributing more to the group and spending less of the build on simply staying alive.

I don’t consider it just “staying alive” when I hit 6k maul on 5 targets with with less than 10 might every 4.5 seconds. That is called a huge cleave, much more damage than I do on my Guardian. And you are definitely in danger in T1 on the commander, it is the safest place, but I get bursted to low HP all the time in the stack. If you are killing a bunch of random then yeah, its going to be a massacre. But when you get 2 guild blobs going it gets dangerous (which is most of the time in T1).

I don’t know why you feel the need to talk down on a build because the playstyle is different than you choose to play. The build isnt called “do the most you can do (in my opinion) in a zerg Ranger”, it is called frontline Ranger. I do more damage than my guardian and stay alive just as long, albeit with a bit more care.

Co-leader of Knights of Eminence[Sir] – PvX
Reap The Weak[Reap] – WvW 5-man havok
-Blackgate

(edited by Kysin.6349)

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

I do more damage than my guardian and stay alive just as long, albeit with a bit more care.

Great, you’re the new meta. Convert your guild to rangers.

I’m not being down on you, I know your build works without a shadow of a doubt. I don’t think you’ve reached the full potential of it but it is safe and will succeed.

Edit: Ah! This actually took quite a bit of effort to find. How to fight naked in a zerg in T1. http://youtu.be/dCYEDMpRnmw?t=34s

By the way I don’t discount your T1 aimed build, but my T2 experience is just as relevant since we also queue all the maps on reset and zergs are just as big. Honestly I think down to about T4 they queue maps on reset but I could be wrong.

(edited by Fluffball.8307)