Guild Wars 2

Alright so, for the longest time I’ve ran a pretty successful roaming WvW ranger (mix of clerics & knight gear for the most part) with shortbow + sword/(whatever, changes often) or SB + GS.

For a while I used Raven + Wolf. The raven was fantastic for initial, quick bursts. I have my pet switch and pet abilities bound to scroll up and scroll down so it was super easy to swap my raven and with BM minor trait 1 he would activate his F2 on whatever enemy that was on me immediately. This was, for the most part, the key to killing enemies since I myself was more defensive in nature. However, I’ve noticed that recently my raven doesn’t actually target-stick to enemies as quick anymore resulting in his burst to miss.

Without a reliable burst, the raven is a chore to use to harass enemies because of the long attack animations and that cursed swiftness auto cast. Jaguar is pretty good for the stealth and has relatively quick animations, but has much less health than raven (also, I really loved raven for the BM trait that granted aoe vigor on swap).

So after this, what’s the general consensus on a solid DPS pet in WvW roaming?

Bird.

Here’s why:
– They cast swiftness which helps you.
– The swiftness also gives them better dps on moving targets
– Their F2 burst ability is more reliable since it all comes in one hit instead of in multiple attacks that may be dodged or miss if the target is missing.
– Not only does their F2 bring big burst, but it also blinds, which helps you survive
– Finally, they have equal power, toughness, and precision to a cat, but also have higher vitality, so they are more durable.

P.s. if you want to get a feel for ravens vs jaguars on moving targets, go to the mists and test both on the moving golem and compare that to how they perform on the stationary golem.

Dahkeus.8243:

- Finally, they have equal power, toughness, and precision to a cat, but also have higher vitality, so they are more durable.

So the stat page says, and many bring this argument. Yet, I find that birds die a lot easier/faster than my cats, for some odd reason. This holds true in both pvp and pve. Can’t really tell why this seems to be the case, but for me, that’s been my experience all along, and I played a lot with my ranger.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Dahkeus.8243:

- Finally, they have equal power, toughness, and precision to a cat, but also have higher vitality, so they are more durable.

So the stat page says, and many bring this argument. Yet, I find that birds die a lot easier/faster than my cats, for some odd reason. This holds true in both pvp and pve. Can’t really tell why this seems to be the case, but for me, that’s been my experience all along, and I played a lot with my ranger.

Hmm, yea, they do seem to still be squishy. It’s stuff like this that makes me wish that we could see numerical values for health pools instead of just the red bar.

Yea. That has been my observation too. That birds die ridiculously fast it’s not funny. I do recommend another pet to consider though: spiders. I run 2 spiders for wvw due to 2 main reasons:

1) they are ranged. In zerg vs zergs / massive groups attacking keep etc, its suicidal for any pet to go into melee range. They just get burst down so fast, even with 30 in BM. You can suggest more micromanaging and keeping the pets by your side, but that’s definitely less than what a ranged pet can do.

2) immobilise. In 1v1, 1v2 situations, the immobilise from spiders’ auto attacks or jungle spider’s F2 ability is priceless. I especially love it when the spideys catch someone trying to run away.

Thanks for the responses!

@Dahkeus
-Swiftness barely contributes anything from what I’ve seen when running Signet of the Hunt already (Sorry that I failed to mention I carry this sig) so this is the last thing I’d want my raven to cast in the middle of a fight.
-Again, pet’s movement speed barely noticeable with SotH already applied
-It can be argued that a single one hit ability is putting all your eggs in one basket. If it misses, then I get no additional damage. At least the jag can continue to throw out crit hits even if one or two misses.
-Blind is only useful versus big attacks. I rarely have the timing perfected to use the raven for this. Otherwise its mostly wasted on auto attacks.
-Yes, I loved this about them. Its why I ran with them for so long.
This is just based on my personal experience.
I have tested them in the mists. Again, the burst damage is amazing from the raven but the jaguar has superior pressuring.

@Atroras, I do love spiders and will switch it out with my wolf when I’m zerging. But 90% of the time I solo roam or small group roam (please everyone, keep your personal opinions of the uselessness of solo roaming in WvW. Its fun, so I do it) and I have a pretty defensive load out. I need a decent damaging pet to offset my lack of hard hits.

With Jag vs Raven you also need to take into consideration the attacks. A Jag’s attacks are just better overall. More damage and more vulnerability.

Don’t forget that Ravens have a Leap Combo Finisher. Also the Raven will not stop to cast Swift if you already have it applied.

Also, every Jaguar skill requires it to be 130 range or closer. The Raven has a 300 range attack.

@ItIsFinished

Are pet combo finishers the same as players’ though? I forget where, but I thought I read somewhere that all pet finishers only affect the pet itself and not allies (such as leap finishers in healing spring) but I can’t confirm this.

Really? Wow I never realized that. That is a pretty big range difference.

Beardmonger.4692:

Thanks for the responses!

@Dahkeus
-Swiftness barely contributes anything from what I’ve seen when running Signet of the Hunt already (Sorry that I failed to mention I carry this sig) so this is the last thing I’d want my raven to cast in the middle of a fight.
-Again, pet’s movement speed barely noticeable with SotH already applied
-It can be argued that a single one hit ability is putting all your eggs in one basket. If it misses, then I get no additional damage. At least the jag can continue to throw out crit hits even if one or two misses.
-Blind is only useful versus big attacks. I rarely have the timing perfected to use the raven for this. Otherwise its mostly wasted on auto attacks.
-Yes, I loved this about them. Its why I ran with them for so long.
This is just based on my personal experience.
I have tested them in the mists. Again, the burst damage is amazing from the raven but the jaguar has superior pressuring.

I ran some numbers on pets by testing them on a stationary golem and comparing it to the moving golem. Below is the link to the thread with the charts/graphs outlining the findings:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Pet-DPS-Comparison/first#post1472159

But in short, the raven falls behind the jaguar on a stationary golem testing, largely because the extra bleed damage that the cat deals are stronger on a heavy target than direct damage. However, when you compare the raven to the cat on a moving test, the raven edges ahead.

And I hear you on the eggs all being in one basket, but the difference is that you can identify when the pet will almost surely land an attack and hit F2 then to reduce the chance of a miss. If you do this for the raven, you likely land it. If you do this on the jaguar, you likely land the first stealthed crit, but if the target moves, they can easily miss the following attacks.

And yea, the blind isn’t anything big if you’re using the F2 as an offensive ability, but negating a few auto attacks is still a plus that you don’t get with the alternative.

In the end, I agree that the raven has its fair share of weaknesses, but overall in the context of WvW, I’d still say it pulls ahead of a jaguar.

Thanks Dahkeus. I’ve actually been following your thread. I’m pretty eager to see what your underwater study comes out with. I use the WvW lakes a lot when outnumbered and I’ve always used the shark without really thinking about it. I appreciate the work you’re putting into the pet studies!

Dahkeus.8243:

But in short, the raven falls behind the jaguar on a stationary golem testing, largely because the extra bleed damage that the cat deals are stronger on a heavy target than direct damage. However, when you compare the raven to the cat on a moving test, the raven edges ahead.

If you have the trait for bleeds on crits for felines I guarantee it’s ahead of the raven and probably also the canines on moving targets.

I really like birds but like the above rangers, I also find them squishy and that is why I have moved away from them in WvW. When it comes to cats, I choose the Jaguar due to it’s stealth ability and very high damage which supports my tankier/condition damage Beast Master build better than a bird.

Namely the Jaguar due to the bleeds/vulnerability it applies. The fact that you can use it as your own personal thief is great, so in retrospect to the F2 bird skill which will burst when it lands, the jaguar in stealth will always lands hits if you help it stay close to your target while also doing high damage… your enemy will think it’s you that is doing the high damage and be confused for a while.

Beardmonger.4692:

Thanks Dahkeus. I’ve actually been following your thread. I’m pretty eager to see what your underwater study comes out with. I use the WvW lakes a lot when outnumbered and I’ve always used the shark without really thinking about it. I appreciate the work you’re putting into the pet studies!

Thanks! I should have that update posted tonight once I get home from work.

@ Manekk – Good point, didn’t think of that!

Dahkeus.8243:

Beardmonger.4692:

Thanks Dahkeus. I’ve actually been following your thread. I’m pretty eager to see what your underwater study comes out with. I use the WvW lakes a lot when outnumbered and I’ve always used the shark without really thinking about it. I appreciate the work you’re putting into the pet studies!

Thanks! I should have that update posted tonight once I get home from work.

@ Manekk – Good point, didn’t think of that!

Also this is why I love the shark as it also gets bleeds on crits I’m very sceptical about the armor fish doing more damage than the shark even without that trait, though I haven’t actually tested and timed I’m just going on the gut feeling of the shark killing things faster, with the extra bleeds from trait however there is no question wich is better.

Bird for wvw for best burst and vigor. Cats for nonbunker spvp and pve. Cats do way better dps on stationary targets like when fighting on a point or dpsing a mob. Birds give most reliable burst.

Manekk.6981:

Dahkeus.8243:

Beardmonger.4692:

Thanks Dahkeus. I’ve actually been following your thread. I’m pretty eager to see what your underwater study comes out with. I use the WvW lakes a lot when outnumbered and I’ve always used the shark without really thinking about it. I appreciate the work you’re putting into the pet studies!

Thanks! I should have that update posted tonight once I get home from work.

@ Manekk – Good point, didn’t think of that!

Also this is why I love the shark as it also gets bleeds on crits I’m very sceptical about the armor fish doing more damage than the shark even without that trait, though I haven’t actually tested and timed I’m just going on the gut feeling of the shark killing things faster, with the extra bleeds from trait however there is no question wich is better.

The stats are low, but the biggest reason I saw for the armor fish’s dps was the fast rate of attack with no fancy, long casting abilities to slow it down. Extra should definitely help, especially since it stacks with the F2 ability to give 2 bleeds on hit while attacking, but you may need to be careful of hitting the cap of 25, particularly if you’re using the harpoon gun.

If you do pick up Rending Attacks, you may want to consider a devourer as an underwater pet instead. It doesn’t look near as cool, but from the tests I’ve seen, it does more damage than a shark and also gets bleeds on hits from Rending Attacks. Devourers have meh dps on land, but they have a faster attack animation underwater for their normal attacks, which makes them pretty strong in that setting.

Beardmonger.4692:

Thanks for the responses!

@Dahkeus
-Swiftness barely contributes anything from what I’ve seen when running Signet of the Hunt already (Sorry that I failed to mention I carry this sig) so this is the last thing I’d want my raven to cast in the middle of a fight.
-Again, pet’s movement speed barely noticeable with SotH already applied

There is a significant boost in speed while in combat between signet of the hunt and swiftness.

who cares even with 200% movement speed, the pet is still completely unreliable in landing its dps. this is why i ultimately dropped SoH in addition to all movement enhancing traits for the pet. pet is good on swap for the burst, and whenever your target is right on your crippled or immobilized.

I was referring more to movement on myself, swiftness granted by birds is very useful and claiming because someone uses SotH then swiftness is pointless is not really very true.

Free swiftness is always nice.

I do agree that your pet is useful for landing burst when your target has been controlled or in melee on swap but my point wasn’t as such aimed at pets landing dps, more that swiftness on yourself in combat has a marked difference over SotH.

Dahkeus.8243:

Manekk.6981:

Dahkeus.8243:

Beardmonger.4692:

Thanks Dahkeus. I’ve actually been following your thread. I’m pretty eager to see what your underwater study comes out with. I use the WvW lakes a lot when outnumbered and I’ve always used the shark without really thinking about it. I appreciate the work you’re putting into the pet studies!

Thanks! I should have that update posted tonight once I get home from work.

@ Manekk – Good point, didn’t think of that!

Also this is why I love the shark as it also gets bleeds on crits I’m very sceptical about the armor fish doing more damage than the shark even without that trait, though I haven’t actually tested and timed I’m just going on the gut feeling of the shark killing things faster, with the extra bleeds from trait however there is no question wich is better.

The stats are low, but the biggest reason I saw for the armor fish’s dps was the fast rate of attack with no fancy, long casting abilities to slow it down. Extra should definitely help, especially since it stacks with the F2 ability to give 2 bleeds on hit while attacking, but you may need to be careful of hitting the cap of 25, particularly if you’re using the harpoon gun.

If you do pick up Rending Attacks, you may want to consider a devourer as an underwater pet instead. It doesn’t look near as cool, but from the tests I’ve seen, it does more damage than a shark and also gets bleeds on hits from Rending Attacks. Devourers have meh dps on land, but they have a faster attack animation underwater for their normal attacks, which makes them pretty strong in that setting.

I have devourer and shark in water I picked this mainly from a pvp point of view cause your devourer can hit targets running up on land (or you running for water) and he also gets a stun on his F2, and of course the shark makes it easy to stack bleeds fast with his F2 plus the fear is also nice.

Why not zoidbe-… I mean, why not both…? That’s what I’m running on my ranger these days. Raven and Jaguar.