Guild Wars 2

Aioros.4862:

@Dojo
If you’re talking about me, you misunderstand, i’m speaking about the longbow having much lower damage at short than at long range and how it makes no sense to me.

Edit: and there is no need to be insulting.

I would have to agree with this, to be honest longbow should be doing more damage the closer you are and less the further away, I remember in Tera you would do more damage the closer you got as an archer, but then obviously lose the survivability of attacking from a safe distance it makes much more sense to me.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

@Ardenwolfe and then big kitten boss with “one-hit-melee-kill” comes and here ends your greatsword usefullness.
and it comes his “one-hit-kill” have range 900 in the circle around him
and here possibility of using post-patch-sb ends
so in this case You should be gald You have range 1200 weapon (1500 if traited)
at WvW post-patch-shortbow usefullnes ends on small group roaming – with 900 range You are useless when it comes to defend tower/keep

That’s just a given if you’re using a boss creature. Now use that same comparison against other mobs and players. The exact opposite is true.

Quit cherry-picking.

Stooperdale.3560:

It would be wrong in design terms if we always did more damage with the bows than the melee weapons. We would then never use the melee weapons. They might as well be taken out of the class. Would anyone prefer that or do you just want swords to brandish for screenshots?

The correct design decision for game play is for melee weapons to do more damage than ranged weapons. It’s right. Players still use melee and ranged.

GW2 is one of the few games where melee is clearly superior to ranged. In League of Legends (a game the GW2 devs naively claimed they intended to make combat similair to prior to game launch) there are both melee and ranged carries and there are no “melee is obviously better than ranged” issues. If they can’t balance melee and ranged to be equally viable (or even closely) without gimping ranged DPS, they have no business making a game with ranged combat (the same goes for the pet unfortunately).

The reality of a lot of GW2 group content is that ranged DPS is more challenging because mobs and bosses act differently depending on your proximity to the target (Lupicus uses some more dangerous attacks if you are ranged, Mai will teleport to the target if they are a certain distance from her, Nightmare Vines use their spit attack on ranged etc). Guild Wars 1 had powerful ranged characters without eliminating the niche of melee characters. The problem is that the balance devs have tunnel vision when focused on sPvP so any attention given to PvE is minimal and shows a poor understanding of the PvE meta. ArenaNet makes the Blizzard statement about not balancing the game for PvP because it will impact too much on PvE look like brilliance. The price the PvE game design pays for having an attempt at real sPvP as an additional feature is simply too high.

I doubt i’ll get read but i blame Anet for all this confusion of Melee and Ranged on Ranger, why? because if players had a goal and a direction given to them by Anet for what a ranger is suppose to be, i’m pretty sure they’d strive to be it.

As it is now most of us have no clue wtf rangers are suppose to bring to GW2 we aren’t dps, healing, crowd control, support etc, or if we are Anet we seriously suck at it..

What I don’t get is why people are complaining that melee>ranged. In EVERY MMO that I raided and did PvE in, ranged>>melee in terms of DPS. Besides bringing one or two for specific buffs that were needed, there was rarely any need for melee.

This is a better system. Melee is SLIGHTLY ahead. Yes, SLIGHTLY…not the dam lightyears people make it out to be. In my Longbow build, there are a lot of fights where my ranged does more damage (but I have to have full endurance, be at 1000+ range, flanking and have Frost spirit out). I did finally get to see a lovely 13.5k crit today on a Jade Maw tentacle without the Frost Spirit…mmm

Einlanzer.1627:

Melee is stronger than ranged for all professions because of risk vs. reward. The thing is that in prolonged or difficult fights you won’t have as much uptime with your greatsword as you will with your longbow, meaning the latter will be stronger. Plus, Ranger Longbow is now substantially better than before and probably out damages most if not all other long-range weapons in the game.

This is the way it should be.

I actually think the mesmer greatsword is probably a stronger 1200 range weapon. Not arguing, just adding to the list.

Dante.1508:

I doubt i’ll get read but i blame Anet for all this confusion of Melee and Ranged on Ranger, why? because if players had a goal and a direction given to them by Anet for what a ranger is suppose to be, i’m pretty sure they’d strive to be it.

As it is now most of us have no clue wtf rangers are suppose to bring to GW2 we aren’t dps, healing, crowd control, support etc, or if we are Anet we seriously suck at it..

I didn’t need the devs to hold my hand and tell me what a ranger does. I figured that out all on my own. It’s pretty self-evident.

If you think ranger must mean range only, you’re doing it wrong.

That said, as a ranger, you’re better at range then any other class. You’re stronger then any other class at range, and incredibly competent with melee. Rangers literally do everything.

A simple understanding in any game with melee is that melee weapons will always be slightly better then range, it’s a risk/reward thing.

Always on any class. If range was better then melee, there would be no honest reason to use a melee weapon for practical play ever.

The equilibrium achieved in this game is second to none in that regard, especially with ranger, and you people want to jump the shark. Stop that.

Is there room for suggestion and improvement? Absolutely.

Post edited by moderator

darkace.8925:

Einlanzer.1627:

You realize the reduction to the aftercast and increase in arrow flight speed alone means Longbow is doing about 25% more DPS than it was before.

Which is immediately offset by the 50% damage reduction given to my pet.

Only ONE skill, on 20 sec CD, got 50% nerf. Rest were a lot less. Stop behaving like bad journalists -.-

Dante.1508:

I doubt i’ll get read but i blame Anet for all this confusion of Melee and Ranged on Ranger, why? because if players had a goal and a direction given to them by Anet for what a ranger is suppose to be, i’m pretty sure they’d strive to be it.

As it is now most of us have no clue wtf rangers are suppose to bring to GW2 we aren’t dps, healing, crowd control, support etc, or if we are Anet we seriously suck at it..

If Ranger was advertised as what it is now at launch, i bet no one would ever level a Ranger. But alas it was advertised as the opposite of what it is now.

darkace.8925:

every time I swap to my greatsword. That I kill things in pve much faster with my masterwork knight’s greatsword than I do with my exotic berserker’s longbow just…well, it doesn’t seem right. It seems like somewhere along the line during development something conceptual didn’t survive the translation to practice and everyone in the room either missed it or was too stubborn to admit it.

++++++++ 1000 agreed

Fade.1743:

What I don’t get is why people are complaining that melee>ranged. In EVERY MMO that I raided and did PvE in, ranged>>melee in terms of DPS. Besides bringing one or two for specific buffs that were needed, there was rarely any need for melee.

This is a better system. Melee is SLIGHTLY ahead. Yes, SLIGHTLY…not the dam lightyears people make it out to be. In my Longbow build, there are a lot of fights where my ranged does more damage (but I have to have full endurance, be at 1000+ range, flanking and have Frost spirit out). I did finally get to see a lovely 13.5k crit today on a Jade Maw tentacle without the Frost Spirit…mmm

50-100% more is “slightly”? Dude. The only way my ranged damage approaches my melee damage is if I’m 1) at 1200+ range, 2) have full endurance, 3) flanking, and 4) attacking an ambient creature.

Lonbow attacks in my build, at max range, are ~800-1500 damage. Swap to greatsword, and suddenly have 1200-2100 damage. No change in stats (all weapons are berserker) not like I’m suddenly eating food before whacking away with my greatsword. It’s flat out more damage. Significantly so. The weapon skill coefficients guarantee it will be.

This applies to all melee vs. ranged weapons, mind you, but is far, far worse on the ranger, where our damage is kitten in the first place.

Terkov.4138:

darkace.8925:

Einlanzer.1627:

You realize the reduction to the aftercast and increase in arrow flight speed alone means Longbow is doing about 25% more DPS than it was before.

Which is immediately offset by the 50% damage reduction given to my pet.

Only ONE skill, on 20 sec CD, got 50% nerf. Rest were a lot less. Stop behaving like bad journalists -.-

Fine, 27-32% reduction on auto attack, up to 50% reduction on skills. It doesn’t change the fact that the pet produces 40% of our damage. That means every ranger, regardless of build, now does 30-50% less damage than they did a few days ago.

stale.9785:

Fade.1743:

What I don’t get is why people are complaining that melee>ranged. In EVERY MMO that I raided and did PvE in, ranged>>melee in terms of DPS. Besides bringing one or two for specific buffs that were needed, there was rarely any need for melee.

This is a better system. Melee is SLIGHTLY ahead. Yes, SLIGHTLY…not the dam lightyears people make it out to be. In my Longbow build, there are a lot of fights where my ranged does more damage (but I have to have full endurance, be at 1000+ range, flanking and have Frost spirit out). I did finally get to see a lovely 13.5k crit today on a Jade Maw tentacle without the Frost Spirit…mmm

50-100% more is “slightly”? Dude. The only way my ranged damage approaches my melee damage is if I’m 1) at 1200+ range, 2) have full endurance, 3) flanking, and 4) attacking an ambient creature.

Lonbow attacks in my build, at max range, are ~800-1500 damage. Swap to greatsword, and suddenly have 1200-2100 damage. No change in stats (all weapons are berserker) not like I’m suddenly eating food before whacking away with my greatsword. It’s flat out more damage. Significantly so. The weapon skill coefficients guarantee it will be.

This applies to all melee vs. ranged weapons, mind you, but is far, far worse on the ranger, where our damage is kitten in the first place.

Something is wrong with numbers or you compare them on other targets. While my GS deals dmg like yours, my LB makes 2-3k dmg.

stale.9785:

Fine, 27-32% reduction on auto attack, up to 50% reduction on skills. It doesn’t change the fact that the pet produces 40% of our damage. That means every ranger, regardless of build, now does 30-50% less damage than they did a few days ago.

No, because the pet (cat) that got 50% nerf on 1 skill, didn’t get nerf on auto attack. Some pets even got dmg buffs, so not every ranger does less dmg and surely not “30-50%” less (actually, even with dead pet you wouldn’t do 50% less, coz, as you said, they are up to 40% of our dmg lol).

Terkov – the numbers are from the heavy golem in the mists. Flat out, longbow deals significantly lower damage. Both are exotic zerker weapons without sigils, on a 20/30/20/0/0 build, for consistency.

And yeah, I exaggerated with pets – but pets are so bad that we should just assume that you’re down 40% potential damage compared to every other class anyway.

stale.9785:

50-100% more is “slightly”? Dude. The only way my ranged damage approaches my melee damage is if I’m 1) at 1200+ range, 2) have full endurance, 3) flanking, and 4) attacking an ambient creature.

Lonbow attacks in my build, at max range, are ~800-1500 damage. Swap to greatsword, and suddenly have 1200-2100 damage. No change in stats (all weapons are berserker) not like I’m suddenly eating food before whacking away with my greatsword. It’s flat out more damage. Significantly so. The weapon skill coefficients guarantee it will be.

This applies to all melee vs. ranged weapons, mind you, but is far, far worse on the ranger, where our damage is kitten in the first place.

Don’t forget the greatsword’s significantly faster attack speed.

Yep… instead of Zerker, I specifically went survival on my Ranger….for DPS…

Think about that for a minute

It means the ability to Toe-to-Toe with everything including Champion Aboms and not die instantly. WHY?? B/c even with really poor damage mods… I’m still outdamaging those LB Zerkers standing back at max range pew pew’ing every 2 seconds. …and Mai, pffft… she had to shadow step me 3x in a row to even down me. And speaking of dungeons, you get kicked from some groups if you can’t melee stack on certain bosses.

Only thing I even keep a LB around for is to interrupt champ Wraiths & barrage spider Eggs … I used to keep it around to knock straggler mobs together so I could Cleave them all at once, but the new #4 on axe does that even easier so…. umm… wait why do we have bows exactly?? …I forgot.

ilr.9675:

Yep… instead of Zerker, I specifically went survival on my Ranger….for DPS…

Think about that for a minute

It means the ability to Toe-to-Toe with everything including Champion Aboms and not die instantly. WHY?? B/c even with really poor damage mods… I’m still outdamaging those LB Zerkers standing back at max range pew pew’ing every 2 seconds. …and Mai, pffft… she had to shadow step me 3x in a row to even down me. And speaking of dungeons, you get kicked from some groups if you can’t melee stack on certain bosses.

Only thing I even keep a LB around for is to interrupt champ Wraiths & barrage spider Eggs … I used to keep it around to knock straggler mobs together so I could Cleave them all at once, but the new #4 on axe does that even easier so…. umm… wait why do we have bows exactly?? …I forgot.

We have bows!? I thought this was the axe centric profession… (/sigh)

I just made some tests (for myself, but why not share?). Used my build (coz, as I said, this test was for me), divinity runes, sigil of fire on both weapons, zerk ammy with soldier gem and kept flanking and endurance bonuses. 5 test per weapon. Pet on passive. Trairs on screenie. Target: stationary heavy golem.

weapon (skills used) times – avg.time

LB in melee range (1., 2., 3.) 14/13/12/15/11 – 13,0 s
LB 1000+ with 2. (1., 2., 3.) 10/10/11/12/12 – 11,0 s
LB 1000+ no 2. (1., 3.) 11/11/10/10/9 – 10,2 s
GS (1., 2.) 9/13/10/9/8 – 9,8 s

As I used 5% LB dmg, GS advantage would be slightly bigger. Also, stop saying LB needs "1200" or “max range”. For max dmg it needs 1000+ and it’s huge difference (especially considering why ppl say about SB nerf ).

So yeah, GS deals more dmg. It’s sad considering it’s more defensive weapon. On the other hand, the results leave LB in “meh, ok” place as a ranged weapon imho. It needs buff (asap! lol) but it’s not as tragic, as some ppl want others to belive.

And yeah, I’m going to continue running my LB/GS build, waiting for buffs. I’m used to being in such position (my luck to MMOs…)

@edit
Why is part of my post underlined, when there is no tags for it? O.o Can’t remove it wtf…

CETheLucid.3964:

I didn’t need the devs to hold my hand and tell me what a ranger does. I figured that out all on my own. It’s pretty self-evident.

If you think ranger must mean range only, you’re doing it wrong.

That said, as a ranger, you’re better at range then any other class. You’re stronger then any other class at range, and incredibly competent with melee. Rangers literally do everything.

A simple understanding in any game with melee is that melee weapons will always be slightly better then range, it’s a risk/reward thing.

Always on any class. If range was better then melee, there would be no honest reason to use a melee weapon for practical play ever.

The equilibrium achieved in this game is second to none in that regard, especially with ranger, and you people want to jump the shark. Stop that.

Is there room for suggestion and improvement? Absolutely.

Calling out the OP for trolling isn’t constructive at all. That said; yes there is a risk/reward type of thing concerning attacking from a distance or from point blank range. However the greatsword is the most defensive weapon the Ranger has. It has a built in evade with the auto-attack, a gap closer (which noone stops you to use for getting away…), a block(+pushback) and a stun. All these defensive options should pretty much negate the risk from attacking in melee, wouldn’t you agree? If anything it’s easier to avoid damage because of how easy it gets to flank your enemy if they do face towards you. The Longbow has no such options, it has 1 pushback and a channeled AoE cripple on a huge cooldown.

Post edited by moderator

So now I’m trolling? Then why don’t you report me? In the case the moderators don’t agree with your assessment then you’ll be well within your rights not to respond to what you consider a troll topic. Or, should the mood strike you, you can discuss things in a mature manner.

Post edited by moderator

My ranger was my first to get to level 80 but I find that all of my other classes are better to play with …. guardian is better in wvw and dungeons…ele is better in wvw, in dungeons, for dps, for healing, running in groups….necro is better in wvw and dungeons and overall, mesmer is better, well you get the point….haven’t played thief and warrior. I want to play my ranger but she just seems to not be as good as my others at anything, anywhere.

Can anyone tell me where the ranger is better than the other classes?

Katz.5143:

Can anyone tell me where the ranger is better than the other classes?

Troll everyone in PvP with pets I guess? \(o.0)/

That’s pretty consistent with my testing, Terkov.
There’s, like, fractions of seconds of difference between Longbow and Greatsword in practical tests in favor of Greatsword. Though my baseline testing actually favors Longbow by a slight margin, and oddly it does so when I’ve made an effort to avoid all weapon-specific traits such as Eagle Eye. And yes, I’m counting Maul’s bleed.

Heavy golem tests (Regular weapons / Crits / OS / No weapon-traits)
Greatsword; 9.6, 8.5, 9.1, 9.0, 7.5, 9.8, 9.3, 9.0, 8.3, 7.3 = 8.74
Longbow; 8.9, 9.1, 8.3, 9.1, 9.2, 8.4, 10.2, 7.8, 9.3, 9.3 = 8.96

Baseline testing (Steady Weapons/ No Crits / no OS / No weapon-traits);
Greatsword cycle (Maul, Autox3, Maul, Autox3, etc); est. 14,755 over 60 seconds
Longbow cycle (Hunter’s, Rapid, Auto x10, Hunter’s, etc.); est. 16,269 over 60 seconds

I haven’t use a longbow since the game released and i discover and found out it was and is garbage. I still have a longbow around but even with all the nerfs that SB have gotten to try and make people use more Longbow, i still like the shortbow.

Is kinda weird, trying to nerf a weapon to the ground so people go and use the other option or make it more appealing. This is probably the first time i see something like this happen in an MMO

Einlanzer.1627:

Tuluum.9638:

McWolfy.5924:

not too loud buddy… GS nerf inc :p

I know this was put as a joke, and many will take it as a joke.. but consider this…

To make LB more viable, SB was nerfed. Dont like how LB and GS compare? How do you think they are going to handle that?

hides his ranger in a cave

Not exactly, to make LB more viable, it was buffed and given a more distinctive role. SB took a range hit to allow for this but also received some damage buffs.

A nuisance for people who really liked sniping with the Shortbow perhaps, but that was never whakittens intention was and this is really how it should have been from the beginning.

If you really want to be the game’s best archer- you are, you are the only class that can slot 2 different bows with different skills and swap between them based on tactical need.

They nerfed range on a good weapon meant for small skirmish / dueling to make a completely 100% zerg weapon more appealing. You can’t even compare the weapons and the styles used to play those weapons which shows you the lack of direction in the anet development team. The damage buffs you speak of on the shortbow are absolutely nothing substantial as the utilities that were buffed were more CC oriented than dmg oriented to begin with and are used for such, if they buffed the auto on shortbow – it would be a different story. I’m not complaining about the range of shortbow but just stating the obvious.

Also, you can buff the dmg on longbow all you want, but until the velocity mechanics are fixed, it’s absolutely meaningless and won’t be used by anybody except people who are delusional enough to take it out into a 1on1 combat situation or go zerg with it.

Terkov.4138:

I just made some tests (for myself, but why not share?). Used my build (coz, as I said, this test was for me), divinity runes, sigil of fire on both weapons, zerk ammy with soldier gem and kept flanking and endurance bonuses. 5 test per weapon. Pet on passive. Trairs on screenie. Target: stationary heavy golem.

weapon (skills used) times – avg.time

LB in melee range (1., 2., 3.) 14/13/12/15/11 – 13,0 s
LB 1000+ with 2. (1., 2., 3.) 10/10/11/12/12 – 11,0 s
LB 1000+ no 2. (1., 3.) 11/11/10/10/9 – 10,2 s
GS (1., 2.) 9/13/10/9/8 – 9,8 s

As I used 5% LB dmg, GS advantage would be slightly bigger. Also, stop saying LB needs "1200" or “max range”. For max dmg it needs 1000+ and it’s huge difference (especially considering why ppl say about SB nerf ).

So yeah, GS deals more dmg. It’s sad considering it’s more defensive weapon. On the other hand, the results leave LB in “meh, ok” place as a ranged weapon imho. It needs buff (asap! lol) but it’s not as tragic, as some ppl want others to belive.

And yeah, I’m going to continue running my LB/GS build, waiting for buffs. I’m used to being in such position (my luck to MMOs…)

Thanks for the results. I wonder what the disparity between GS and LB times would have been had you spec’d for greatsword instead of longbow.

Katz.5143:

Can anyone tell me where the ranger is better than the other classes?

well it used to be best at solo MF% fine mat farming… (esp underwater for scales). Mainly b/c you could max out on MF% gear yet not be affected by your gear choice for obvious reasons. But that also changed a bit last week. And 2 other classes now seem to be taking that title instead…. Wonder if that means this was partially an Anti-botting nerf too? lulz…

darkace.8925:

Thanks for the results. I wonder what the disparity between GS and LB times would have been had you spec’d for greatsword instead of longbow.

Not that big I guess. 5% less dmg with LB and 5% more dmg with GS. Maybe 1 more maul.

Ryan.8367:

won’t be used by anybody except people who are delusional enough to take it out into a 1on1 combat situation or go zerg with it.

So, everyone who uses weapon because it gives him most fun (and that is the only reason most of us play this game) is delusional? I played WoW for 6 years and had fun with constant race to top DPS on recount, now I kitten it and I have same fun, does it make me less valuable player? You can watch my movie (first few mins is boring) linked in sig and try to understand not everything is about gaining edge. Beating average and some good players (who underestimated LB ranger) is enough for me, tho I’m aware of my weaknesses.

How do people not get that melee is supposed to outdamage ranged across the board? This is meant to compensate for the time that being in melee requires moving around more and puts you at higher risk. Even if your Greatsword outdamages your Longbow in a DPS test, it doesn’t necessarily make it a better weapon; there will be a lot of fights where your Longbow will get more uptime and will outperform your Greatsword while also putting you in less danger. That’s by design. If Longbow outdamaged Greatsword in basic DPS tests, the Greatsword would be pointless.

Einlanzer.1627:

How do people not get that melee is supposed to outdamage ranged across the board? This is meant to compensate for the time that being in melee requires moving around more and puts you at higher risk. Even if your Greatsword outdamages your Longbow in a DPS test, it doesn’t necessarily make it a better weapon; there will be a lot of fights where your Longbow will get more uptime and will outperform your Greatsword while also putting you in less danger. That’s by design. If Longbow outdamaged Greatsword in basic DPS tests, the Greatsword would be pointless.

I understand that melee is supposed to be more powerful than ranged across the board, but I feel that that puts the ranger at a serious disadvantage from a design perspective.

Look at it this way. The class is designed around bows. Yes, I know we do melee too so hear me out first. The class is designed around bows. About being ‘unparalleled archers’. But what good is being an ‘unparalleled archer’ when there is no real incentive to use bows as melee is stronger? Especially our melee options which are filled to the brim with evades. With our Wilderness Survival tree and our evasion, we can survive practically anything in melee. So we honestly don’t need to ever really go ranged.

Here is a suggestion of mine.

Make rangers work backwards of the other classes. Make their bows a bit more powerful. And weaken their melee. How is this balanced, you ask? Simple. It forces them out of melee and makes them want to avoid it. To counter their ranged ‘advantage’ in WvW and PvP you just need to close with them and keep them in melee. As for PvE, there are already a lot of mechanics that try to punish ranged attackers over melee combatants. Mai Trin’s ranged attack is a prime example of such.

I mean seriously, how much sense does it make that the only real viable builds in PvP for ranger are to bunker and not move. No, there is no problem with rangers meleeing. But when not moving, the ranger isn’t ‘ranging’. And isn’t that what rangers are named after?

There are people who like Ranger melee. And melee is stronger because they can be kited and their uptime on target will need to be offset by higher damage. As it is now melee uptime in pve is too high and ranged damage too low.

Aioros.4862:

There are people who like Ranger melee. And melee is stronger because they can be kited and their uptime on target will need to be offset by higher damage. As it is now melee uptime in pve is too high and ranged damage too low.

I definitely agree. I think they should shake the ranger class up. Make it work backwards. Up the ranged damage and lower the melee. Reward us for maintaining ranged. Not too broken in PvP and WvW as the counter would be to close with us. Not too broken in PvE as we still have the damage linked to our pet and bosses still can hit us like trucks at range.

Einlanzer.1627:

How do people not get that melee is supposed to outdamage ranged across the board? This is meant to compensate for the time that being in melee requires moving around more and puts you at higher risk. Even if your Greatsword outdamages your Longbow in a DPS test, it doesn’t necessarily make it a better weapon; there will be a lot of fights where your Longbow will get more uptime and will outperform your Greatsword while also putting you in less danger. That’s by design. If Longbow outdamaged Greatsword in basic DPS tests, the Greatsword would be pointless.

Absolutely spot on. It’s the most basic of risk vs reward formulas: Do more damage in melee, higher risk of getting kited, facerolled etc. Stand back a bit (quite a bit w/traited longbow) and throw out some decent damage while being fairly safe…

Edit: Personally, I really like the idea of being at range, keeping someone running just to switch to GS and finish them off when they get too close. This is why I’m going to look into an advanced Ranger melee training course for my character

And yet longbow rangers get more reward from being far away and brutally penalized for being closer.

Also rangers wear medium armor because Rangers should not be so hands on.

My only profession is Ranger.
I like Short Bow.
I see a lot of people saying that Melee, as in Great Sword, should do a lot more damage because the risks are higher when you get close to your target.
It might be, but correct me if I am wrong, even in PvE mobs tend to close the gab very fast and you end up being face to face with the mob.
In WvW also, almost every class has gap closing skills that will get them IN YOUR FACE very fast.
So you basically do “melee” with your Short Bow most of the time.
it is not like the darn Short Bow is so over powered that you can kill a player from a safe distance, right? At least I am not able to, using full DPS gear.
And who really cares about it in PvE? All PvE mobs are trash. And those that are not and like to one-shoot yours kitten , are doing that no matter if you are melee or at range.

If it were such that bows are more damage flat out, then there is no reward for taking the risk that melee gives. Also, perhaps if you count the pet (which is basically a 2000 unit mobile autoattack), then the ranger truly is unparalleled at range?

What risk?
Most bosses can one shot kill your no mater where you stand in PvE.
Most players can close the gap in WvW very very fast.
At least the Great Sword gives you some evades and on top of that more dmage.

Tbh in many games there was no need to make ranged simply weaker. In some MMOs it was actually harder to stay at distance than follow and bash and for more dmg you paid with lower defences (logical imo).
Ofc, this discussion won’t change anything – GW2 design is what it is, and even if we don’t like it, we can only accept it or search for other game.

Aioros.4862:

And yet longbow rangers get more reward from being far away and brutally penalized for being closer.

Also rangers wear medium armor because Rangers should not be so hands on.

Every single time I read one of your posts I’m flabbergasted by how myopic they are.

Rangers are penalized at close range on the Longbow only, which is not the same as asserting they are penalized period. It’s like that because the Longbow is a skirmishing weapon, and it’s designed as a tradeoff. You do bonus damage at long range, and get a penalty at very close range. If you need to fight in close range, you don’t do it with the Longbow.

Also, all but 2 classes wear medium or light armor, and all of them have some capacity to be in melee. Rangers actually have better attrition than most which is also aided by the pet.

Deepcuts.9740:

What risk?
Most bosses can one shot kill your no mater where you stand in PvE.
Most players can close the gap in WvW very very fast.
At least the Great Sword gives you some evades and on top of that more dmage.

It still requires more active movement and evading. Longbow doesn’t do the same or better DPS than the Greatsword specifically because this game relies on mobility in combat, and the closer into the fight you are the more mobility you need. In most fights, you will get more uptime on the Longbow than on the Greatsword, which helps even out the actual DPS.

Combat in this game is more dynamic than in most MMOs; trying to compare the weapons solely on the basis of DPS in a vacuum is folly; that should be obvious to anyone with a brain.

Einlanzer.1627:

Melee is stronger than ranged for all professions because of risk vs. reward.

Nailed it! And, it’s what’s completely breaking lure and RP in the game. Besides the fact that, in reality, it’s completely the opposite. Ranged is ALWAYS preferred to melee.

In PvE/Dungeons, there should be NO invulnerability applied to any NPC because you aren’t “close” enough. If you can get the higher ground or an advantage point, you should win, period.

We need to promote logic and smarter combat in the game more and more.
Sniper > dagger’s every time

DeWolfe.2174:

Einlanzer.1627:

Melee is stronger than ranged for all professions because of risk vs. reward.

Nailed it! And, it’s what’s completely breaking lure and RP in the game. Besides the fact that, in reality, it’s completely the opposite. Ranged is ALWAYS preferred to melee. In PvE/Dungeons, there should be NO invulnerability applied to any NPC because you aren’t “close” enough. If you can get the higher ground or an advantage point, you should win, period.

We need to promote logic and smarter combat in the game more and more.
Sniper > dagger’s every time

This post barely makes sense, but I’ll respond to one point. Ranged is only “always” preferred when everyone is using ranged weapons and you have modern technology (guns in this game probably wouldn’t count).

As soon as you introduce an environment where a substantial number of people are using melee weapons and/or technology is low-ish (like in a fantasy setting), it changes the dynamic. You try taking a Longbow into a skirmish once you pick off one or two people and the rest charge at you. No, you wouldn’t, you’d switch to a melee weapon so you could defend yourself.

That is in fact why the whole notion of “bows all day err day” is really stupid and deserving of ridicule.

How does it NOT make sense? It makes perfect sense. What deserves ridicule is having any entire game based around one Dev saying “Risk vs Reward”. Now the whole game meta is highly skewed toward melee being superior. As is the theme the OP stated.

If I were at 1500 range and people started running toward me, I would run away. Thus, how would they catch me to melee? But, being that melee has to be superior, Anet created magical gap closer’ss to nullify the logical benefits of ranged attacks.

This continued on with the NPC’s. They made them invulnerable or have fast auto healing if you are not within an NPC’s reach. Thus, you cannot attack from long range or height advantages.

Our pet’s are rooted to the platforms we are on. They cannot climb down or up. to attack anyone. Again, going against any height or distance advantages the real world has taught us. The list of contrived, anti-ranged, hindrances are quite long.

Melee is superior only because a Dev likes frenetically paced fights. Simple as that! That’s why I complimented Einlanzer first on pointing that out by saying “Rick vs Reward”. Then listed some of the negatives that the “Risk vs Reward” philosophy has brought upon our Bow Rangers.

btw, my SB/LB Ranger wiped a really good GS Warrior last night 1v1. Even after he used GS #5 to retreat, heal, and reengage me several times. It’s annoying but, doable.

So, here’s something you guys might like to hear.

I actually did a numbers crunch and a longbow at max range, 30/25/0/15/0 or something similar, actually hits for MORE damage than any comparable greatsword spec. In fact, a max-range longbow actually hits almost as hard as a 1H sword in melee. Combined with the pet’s DPS, a ranger with a longbow actually hits just as hard as a warrior with an axe.

That means that, yes, when you are in WvW shooting a guy from the walls with a longbow and you see a warrior running at the zerg with an axe, you’re actually hitting for more than he is.

Obviously, this favors situations where you can maxrange a target while still receiving buffs from your allies, like WvW, and isn’t as useful in dungeons and the like where most classes get their best damage in melee, but a 2200 base DPS longbow (compared to ranger 1H sword at 2300 and warrior axe at 2900) is extremely respectable.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

That means that, yes, when you are in WvW shooting a guy from the walls with a longbow and you see a warrior running at the zerg with an axe, you’re actually hitting for more than he is.

What about our pet, wasting time on wall? The stupid bag of fur won’t help there, and even if it could, it’d die in few secs.

Tuluum.9638:

Einlanzer.1627:

Yeah, I really don’t know what their aim is with pets. I strongly feel like they just made some mistakes in the design of the pet system which is causing most of the problems with the Ranger class. Instead of making the ranger weak and giving so much damage to the pet, ranger weapon skills should roughly the same DPS as every other profession’s weapon skills, and the pet should be mostly utilitarian. That’s what they need to fix across the board.

That is what almost every ranger on the forums here have been saying for quite a while. Hopefully they will listen at some point!

Adjust the proportion of damage between the ranger and their pet. Currently, it just doesnt seem to be working. WAI? Yes, it absolutely is working as intended. Its just that that “intended” is not really working. Dig?

I think instead of removing pets to the side, maybe they should buff the pets and work on the AI a little so pets become smarter, and auto-pathing works. Pets make rangers unique compared to the other classes, so I think its something that should be kept and improved, instead of of moved off.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

So, here’s something you guys might like to hear.

I actually did a numbers crunch and a longbow at max range, 30/25/0/15/0 or something similar, actually hits for MORE damage than any comparable greatsword spec. In fact, a max-range longbow actually hits almost as hard as a 1H sword in melee. Combined with the pet’s DPS, a ranger with a longbow actually hits just as hard as a warrior with an axe.

That means that, yes, when you are in WvW shooting a guy from the walls with a longbow and you see a warrior running at the zerg with an axe, you’re actually hitting for more than he is.

Obviously, this favors situations where you can maxrange a target while still receiving buffs from your allies, like WvW, and isn’t as useful in dungeons and the like where most classes get their best damage in melee, but a 2200 base DPS longbow (compared to ranger 1H sword at 2300 and warrior axe at 2900) is extremely respectable.

I am actually not too surprised to hear this given that Longbow DPS went up by 20% or so in the last patch. I was about to post about the melee>ranged paradigm being a little short-sighted, but this makes me feel better if it’s accurate.

Guang bro cant you get more dps out of 0/25/0/15/30 in a min/max ranger comp? I run 30/25/0/15/0 with companion’s might too (sigil of strength) to cap out 25 stack might on pet but…is that power well spent on the ranger or the pet? Interesing question if you ask me. Bc marks let you stack vuln BUT you could get that with 3 hunter’s shots, assuming you have 3 rangers on your squad.

darkace.8925:

every time I swap to my greatsword. That I kill things in pve much faster with my masterwork knight’s greatsword than I do with my exotic berserker’s longbow just…well, it doesn’t seem right. It seems like somewhere along the line during development something conceptual didn’t survive the translation to practice and everyone in the room either missed it or was too stubborn to admit it.

It’s been like this since Guild Wars 1. I bought Guild Wars 2 in the hopes that Anet would have enough sense to increase the Ranger’s power and agility, but they ended up doing the opposite for no reason whatsoever. I was used to using a longbow (stormbow) in Guild Wars 1, and I was incredibly disappointed in the direction Anet chose to take with the longbow in GW2. The LB is barely a viable option compared to the SB and GS nowadays. Even Blizzard had enough sense to increase the Hunter’s power when Hunters complained that they were way underpowered compared with other classes, but when Rangers complain that they need a buff, all is ignored. Anet needs to take a step back and analyze the Ranger class as a whole. From our perspective, we lack damage, survivability, our pets just got a nerf for no apparent reason, and we think you hate us with a passion, Anet. Seriously, it’s unbelievable how much damage I lack when I switch from my godly Elementalist to my barely-survivable Ranger.

Galtrix.7369:

It’s been like this since Guild Wars 1. I bought Guild Wars 2 in the hopes that Anet would have enough sense to increase the Ranger’s power and agility, but they ended up doing the opposite for no reason whatsoever. I was used to using a longbow (stormbow) in Guild Wars 1, and I was incredibly disappointed in the direction Anet chose to take with the longbow in GW2. The LB is barely a viable option compared to the SB and GS nowadays. Even Blizzard had enough sense to increase the Hunter’s power when Hunters complained that they were way underpowered compared with other classes, but when Rangers complain that they need a buff, all is ignored. Anet needs to take a step back and analyze the Ranger class as a whole. From our perspective, we lack damage, survivability, our pets just got a nerf for no apparent reason, and we think you hate us with a passion, Anet. Seriously, it’s unbelievable how much damage I lack when I switch from my godly Elementalist to my barely-survivable Ranger.

Barely survivable ranger? We’re one of the most survivable classes. It’s just that our DPS and support capabilities are pretty low.