Guild Wars 2

Razor.9872:

Darkness.9732:

RANGERS are BAD.
Everyone knows that.
IT’ s not a learn to play issue. IT’ s a play a useless class issue. Rangers have 0 survival skills. Rangers have no decent F skills. Want to talk about Pets^?? why if my pet dies can t use any F skills?
Rangers compared to other class is simply zero worthy. That’s why it s Always the first target. That’s why it Always dies for first both in pvp and wvw.
That’ s why tons of rangers have quitted the game.
That’ s why even the devs during point of interest they NEVER play RANGER.
(They play warrior ofc )

Actually…Ranger has 4 survival skills… ;D

… oh … I see what you did there

Sigh…poor Ranger has to be the scapegoat for everyone. Never mind that it provides unique buffs for the whole group and has an extra body for a round of attacks to take a hit over a party member. I mean, at least a ranger can bring more than dps to a group…unlike the necro.

And yet it is still told it doesn’t and will never belong in the ‘meta’…all because the bearbow trashed the image when the game first started.

I don’t know what you are talking about … people friggin love me in Fractals and no one complains whether I’m on my Ranger or another character.

You are treated based on what you actually do with the class.

If people want to not be looked down upon … show up and play well.

If people want to be noticed / unique / etc. … show up and play well … and be nice. Many don’t care if you’re #1 if you’re a jerk.

If you fail at something … it was probably your own fault … figure out your errors and learn from them … or you’re likely to fail that way again.

Simple stuff, really.

Sebrent.3625:

I don’t know what you are talking about … people friggin love me in Fractals and no one complains whether I’m on my Ranger or another character.

You are treated based on what you actually do with the class.

If people want to not be looked down upon … show up and play well.

If people want to be noticed / unique / etc. … show up and play well … and be nice. Many don’t care if you’re #1 if you’re a jerk.

If you fail at something … it was probably your own fault … figure out your errors and learn from them … or you’re likely to fail that way again.

Simple stuff, really.

Sir, you do realize that even most of US look down on other rangers, assuming they are bad?

Do you realize that we are talking about majority of the rangers being super bad? Not you, not me, not him, but like the vast majority out there?

rangers… easy to play, devilishly difficult to master. they’re great for getting a feel of the game, but as we all know, what works against the game’s AI in PvE doesn’t work for squat against a live opponent in sPvP or WvW. and then there’s the PITA that is pet micromanagement when in a dungeon or fractal… the september patch that gave us a ranged 100 blades just exacerbated the problem, because now, in addition to the new players who don’t have the skill built up yet, you have the older players who used to shun ranger bandwagoning on the pew pew power ranger train trying to 2, 2, 2, 2 their way to victory.

however… a skilled ranger, as few and far between as they are, is a force to be reckoned with. there are plenty of people out there that are more skilled than me who kill me quickly, but many times i am underestimated simply because i am a ranger… twice now in the last week i’ve had someone chase me halfway across the map, only for me to turn on them and kill them in short order (one was a warrior, the other another ranger). i know that 9 times out of 10 when i see another ranger in WvW, they’re an easy kill.

are rangers bad? no. each class has it’s strengths and weaknesses. but playing a ranger in WvW or sPvP takes a heck of a lot more skill than playing one in PvE which results in 2 things… ranger players trying to get into one of those things getting frustrated and playing something else, and everyone else with the (not entirely incorrect) impression that (most) rangers are an easy kill because of lack of skill.

katz.8376:

…

are rangers bad? no. each class has it’s strengths and weaknesses. but playing a ranger in WvW or sPvP takes a heck of a lot more skill than playing one in PvE which results in 2 things… ranger players trying to get into one of those things getting frustrated and playing something else, and everyone else with the (not entirely incorrect) impression that (most) rangers are an easy kill because of lack of skill.

I agree on most of thing you said … But that in terms of terminology would be the other way round.

Is the Ranger bad? No.
Are Rangers bad? Yes. Statistically.

I thought so too, and then I watched some of FrouFrou’s vids. And then I knew it’s not ranger, it’s me
And I still like to see Gladomer play his ranger and wreck people. Knowing I will never be as good as them, but that does not make the class bad

aspirine.6852:

I thought so too, and then I watched some of FrouFrou’s vids. And then I knew it’s not ranger, it’s me
And I still like to see Gladomer play his ranger and wreck people. Knowing I will never be as good as them, but that does not make the class bad

IMO, and not taking anything away from too obviously experienced players:

The biggest difference is that they’ve customized their gear and traits to their own liking. Full glass works for some situations and some playstyles. I prefer it myself. FrouFrou’s vids are usually guildies in a ~ 5 vs 5, where berserker becomes a massive liability. You can only survive for so long in an open field with 5 coordinated players targeting you.

The second thing they both do is know when to pull back for a few seconds. It really only takes single digit numbers of seconds to get yourself in a better position with better cooldowns (or in Frou’s case, dump the aggro on your buddy. )

Try those too things out and you’ll be well on your way to making your own videos.

pfanne.9783:

oh please.
the elitism in here is strong.
I’m average at best and I play against other average players and I manage just fine and so do a lot of other rangers.
And all that 10 seconds or less talk is bullkitten.
Most powerrangers use signet of stone and that lasts for 6 seconds.
After that you go invis or use the GS block for another 3 seconds or something.
And you can probably dodge twice for another 3 seconds.
Oh and did I mention lightning reflexes?
You have that too.
Thats like 15 to 16 seconds of being untouchable as a powerranger.

Be careful. This kinid of logical speaking and mention of the power ranger build being strong is not well recieved around these parts.

Gapaw.8674:

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

Gapaw.8674:

Safiyasha.2910:

A Ranger that knows how to play is a very very dangerous thing so keep coming for me I want you to. Ignorance is bliss.

I will call your bluff..Every Ranger i seen had died in 15 seconds or less. Not to mention how many i have taken out in the mist..Ranger are no good for pvp period…Just swallow your pride i probably had killed you in the mist as well..

while i’m not disagree-ing nor agreeing with you, 15 seconds is either a hyperbole or plain false. while it is rare nowadays, the condi-regen build can last a decent amount of time in 1v1’s with very little effort (not to say it doesn’t take skill).

and if you’ve played pvp for more than a week, chances are you’ve ran into a couple of these builds.

Not to mention there’s a ranger in the competitive field (i believe. i’ve never actually kept up with it)

even glassbow rangers can last a long time if you play defensively and know what you’re doing

edit: for the sake of contributing something to the topic, I think the fact that the same people who complain about all rangers being bad (and that they kill rangers “all the time” )are generally the same people that cry for ranger nerfs. that speaks for itself, imo.

Why would a ranger play defensive?Just admit the offense suxs? When it comes hand to hand combat up close they are finish ie Mist or Pvp.Further more the farther away you are the more damage you deal with a bow.(You could say that is part defense being father back). If the Bow did its Job like it should, i would not need a weak pet to make up the difference for my Bow..LOL The only thing that the Bow has good going for it is the rapid fire..Once you use the rapid fire the Ranger is dead meat and i am going to nail you to the ground with my thief.. BTW I play ranger so i know what they can and cannot do..When i play thief i never lost a fight with a ranger they are to easy.

Lmao you must fight really bad rangers. I use only melee weapons and on occassion a SB. I have no problem defeating 99% of thieves.

I do love after killing an opponent they QQ that i only spam 2…when I havent equipped an LB in close to 2 years.

Oh come on, this again?

It is stated and proven that ranger is the weakest class in the game after the necro. The idea behind the class is nice it’s execution is awful.

Too many broken mechanics in place to make this class playable in any high level game, silver wastes a perfect example, PvP no mention, WvW the same unless you play safe from 1800 units. I could write down a list but let’s not do that is being done 100 times.

That’s a fact and that’s why there are not meta rangers in PvP. Period.

Saying otherwise is BS and that’s being proven already.

Despise all that i love my ranger and i play with him all the time. I like to be able to swap between range and melee weapons although killing any champ in level 80 maps it’s really difficult to do it just myself.

When i play with a the guardian i much easier although so much boring.

anduriell.6280:

Oh come on, this again?

It is stated and proven that ranger is the weakest class in the game after the necro. The idea behind the class is nice it’s execution is awful.

…

Then why was I asked by my former tPvP buddies to specifically bring the spirit ranger to the table? Why was I asked for this specific pick then?

If it was the weakest class, then this would never have happened. Also, it’s true that the ranger’s execution is awful. But it’s pressure on downed targets is one of the better since the condi pressure has … no cooldown or very short one (depends on using shortbow over axe).

Also, the blind idea “it has been proven” means nothing but “I was too lazy to find out for myself”. This is something you should think of. If you didn’t find a viable way to play the ranger, do not blame it on the class.

Power Ranger is the weakest from Power and Zerk builds. But no one forces you to play it.

@Tragic:
Personally, I try to not look down on other Rangers. If they make some mistakes and I rip them a new one, I will chat them some tips if I have the time.

This “looking down on” is toxic and has no real purpose. It does nothing good for the game and its community. People need to stop with that stuff.

It also makes the people doing it look bad.

All I’m seeing in this discussion is:

• “There are several bad rangers … but Ranger isn’t bad”

You could swap out Ranger and insert any class in the game and that would be true.

So what is it we’re trying to get at here?

I’m not seeing a real point to this :-/

anduriell.6280:

Oh come on, this again?

It is stated and proven that ranger is the weakest class in the game after the necro. The idea behind the class is nice it’s execution is awful.

Too many broken mechanics in place to make this class playable in any high level game, silver wastes a perfect example, PvP no mention, WvW the same unless you play safe from 1800 units. I could write down a list but let’s not do that is being done 100 times.

That’s a fact and that’s why there are not meta rangers in PvP. Period.

Saying otherwise is BS and that’s being proven already.

Despise all that i love my ranger and i play with him all the time. I like to be able to swap between range and melee weapons although killing any champ in level 80 maps it’s really difficult to do it just myself.

When i play with a the guardian i much easier although so much boring.

Rangers are actually quite viable in competitive PvP. However, the tourney players prefer to play over the top, ridiculous OP classes and builds for easy payouts. Condi ranger is extraordinary if played corrrctly. Those that never played a condi ranger think its ezmode. I challenge you to try it and be good at it, if its soooo easy.

Point is there are a lot more easier classes to play with instawin buttons that tour players go for.

There was a tourney player that used ranger and he was owning…..

I don’t think it’s so much “easy payouts” as it is an imbalance in the tradeoffs paid by the classes.

Look at what an Elementalist gains by running the classic tourney build with Dagger/Dagger:

• Single target damage (power and condition)
• Cleave damage (power and condition)
• Mobility
• Healing (self and team)
• Cleanse (self and team)
• Crowd Control
• Boon stacking (self and team)

The only thing they don’t have is “long range” and that isn’t really a problem when talking about Conquest given that contesting a point puts you quite close to each other … in fact, their abundance of AOE is well-suited for that little circle.

What exactly are they missing? Unless you can boon strip them, they aren’t even really squishy. If you do, they have the mobility to get away and reset.

Sebrent.3625:

I don’t think it’s so much “easy payouts” as it is an imbalance in the tradeoffs paid by the classes.

Look at what an Elementalist gains by running the classic tourney build with Dagger/Dagger:

• Single target damage (power and condition)
• Cleave damage (power and condition)
• Mobility
• Healing (self and team)
• Cleanse (self and team)
• Crowd Control
• Boon stacking (self and team)

The only thing they don’t have is “long range” and that isn’t really a problem when talking about Conquest given that contesting a point puts you quite close to each other … in fact, their abundance of AOE is well-suited for that little circle.

What exactly are they missing? Unless you can boon strip them, they aren’t even really squishy. If you do, they have the mobility to get away and reset.

All valid points. However i see more and more rangers owning d/d eles. Myself i can take down most D/D eles. Yes its not about 1v1s.

Rangers are good grouped as well.

High single target damage (more so than an ele)
High aoe damage(could be moreso than an ele…depends on ele build)
They have crazy good CC
They too can cure condis on group
They also have group heal
Great mobility
Condi damage second to none (on up to 5 people)
Spirit ranger has crazy team buffs as well. Although i think spirit rangers lacks a lot from other ranger builds.

Rangers were just in such a bad place for so long…they got a bad rep for being useless in Teams. They are far from that NOW.

I don’t think all rangers are bad. Sometimes though it is annoying when they use Point Blank Shot from range, thus knocking the mob out of my grenade aoe, or out of melee range. Just think before you use PBS sometimes, especially if the mob is stationary. That’s my only complaint, other than that I like rangers.

SYPHA.9283:

…
…

All valid points. However i see more and more rangers owning d/d eles. Myself i can take down most D/D eles. Yes its not about 1v1s.

Rangers are good grouped as well.

High single target damage (more so than an ele)
High aoe damage(could be moreso than an ele…depends on ele build)
They have crazy good CC
They too can cure condis on group
They also have group heal
Great mobility
Condi damage second to none (on up to 5 people)
Spirit ranger has crazy team buffs as well. Although i think spirit rangers lacks a lot from other ranger builds.

Rangers were just in such a bad place for so long…they got a bad rep for being useless in Teams. They are far from that NOW.

Just to clarify a few things.
Rangers have higher single target damage only in a specific condi bombing build and in a specific rotation that has to land. Once a single part of the abilty sequence fails – the damage is going to fall by far.

The high AoE damage is not really true. Rangers have more powerful AoE condi bomb. But not higher AoE damage. The Axe -2- is mostly single target point blank ability. It’s weak on anything else. Torch and Entangle are the only AoE damage abilities.

Crazy good CC is a wolf. That indeed is good. And a Longbow – which reduces the argument about AoE damage to zero since with Power build you don’t have any reliable AoE whatsoever.

Rangers on Power Build cannot cleanse the party, neither heal it.

You don’t have condi damage on Power Build…

And a spirit Ranger is -again- another totally different thing to bring up.
_____________________________
You see, while you say that rangers have all of those things – you forgot to realize that they can’t have all of that at the same time.
Eles sure can. And they also can boost the party with offensive Fire blasts.

SYPHA.9283:

Sebrent.3625:

I don’t think it’s so much “easy payouts” as it is an imbalance in the tradeoffs paid by the classes.

Look at what an Elementalist gains by running the classic tourney build with Dagger/Dagger:

• Single target damage (power and condition)
• Cleave damage (power and condition)
• Mobility
• Healing (self and team)
• Cleanse (self and team)
• Crowd Control
• Boon stacking (self and team)

The only thing they don’t have is “long range” and that isn’t really a problem when talking about Conquest given that contesting a point puts you quite close to each other … in fact, their abundance of AOE is well-suited for that little circle.

What exactly are they missing? Unless you can boon strip them, they aren’t even really squishy. If you do, they have the mobility to get away and reset.

All valid points. However i see more and more rangers owning d/d eles. Myself i can take down most D/D eles. Yes its not about 1v1s.

Rangers are good grouped as well.

High single target damage (more so than an ele)
High aoe damage(could be moreso than an ele…depends on ele build)
They have crazy good CC
They too can cure condis on group
They also have group heal
Great mobility
Condi damage second to none (on up to 5 people)
Spirit ranger has crazy team buffs as well. Although i think spirit rangers lacks a lot from other ranger builds.

Rangers were just in such a bad place for so long…they got a bad rep for being useless in Teams. They are far from that NOW.

Equal skill a D/D ele will win. Heck they can be worse and the build will carry them to a win as long as they know their rotations. Even if you are slowly winning the fight against them they have so much sustain that their teammates can rotate back before you kill them or cap the point.

Now if we had a way to strip their boons things might be different.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRAsf3YjMq0yaHL+rQ1ag8ga9FEAne7jIh/BXVRJXqC-TJhGABUXGAt9HA4JAMwJBAA

This is the build Ive used for quite awhile when I am focused in helping group play.

Has great group CC with Muddy Terrain, wolf howl and entangle. Provides for a group full condi cleanse. Also has a group heal.( you can change traits to have 2 group heals)

This build also provides power and condi damage.

Aoe damage is in the form of muddy terrain, then entangle and then torch 5…Ive caught 3 people in that combo and have won a 3v1 using that rotation.

Puck.9612:

Now if we had a way to strip their boons things might be different.

Puck … you hit one of my Ranger desires right on the head.

If Staff gives Ranger boon removal … I’d be so happy.

It’s one of those things that perturbs me when I switch from my Mesmer to my Ranger

• My Mesmer doesn’t care about boons … he just removes them
• My Ranger stares impotently at those boons while trying to work through them

Stripping Boons off players who rely on that crutch is one of my favorite things to do in PvP.

When it comes to builds, I try to think on these points:

• How deadly am I when unpressured … if not a big threat, something needs to change
• How capable am I of surviving when pressured?
• How threatening am I when pressured?

There are no bad classes

Only bad players

@Narkodx:
Precisely … but people shouldn’t “look down on” the bad players. It would behoove us all to be more helpful to those players so they can learn and stop being “bad”.

Also, part of being a “good” player is recognizing and understanding the pros/cons of each class, their abilities, their builds, etc. and what to do with that knowledge as well as when.

Every class has pros and cons.

Because most are.

And our Bows are designed in such way that the difference between good and bad ranger isn’t super visible untill you get in Ranger’s melee range. Outcome of powerful auto attacks and rather easy rotations, less LB, more SB.

The best indicator of how good the ranger is – melee range and melee weapons+utility rotations.

@Rym:
I disagree. I can notice quite a big difference between experienced and new Rangers with either Bow.

w/ Longbow: Intelligent [re-]positioning, use of knockback, use of stealth, when to rapid fire, etc. all come into play. I can tell a big difference between a new Ranger and an experienced one.

w/ Shortbow: Intelligent [re-]positioning, use of volley, use of the evade, good use of daze.

That being said, melee is a “make it or break it” point though as you’re in a much higher risk environment in melee.

With all weapons, I really notice how they use the pet in tandem with their weapons. A new Ranger just has their pet chase me. An experienced Ranger will CC chain me with a combination of pet immob/knockdown/fear … possibly even thrown in muddy terrain, spike trap, and/or entangle for good measure.

We have so much immobilization as Rangers btw … it’s sickeningly awesome :-)

Sebrent.3625:

@Narkodx:
Precisely … but people shouldn’t “look down on” the bad players. It would behoove us all to be more helpful to those players so they can learn and stop being “bad”.

Also, part of being a “good” player is recognizing and understanding the pros/cons of each class, their abilities, their builds, etc. and what to do with that knowledge as well as when.

Every class has pros and cons.

I learned that this part is slightly incorrect.
… I bet that you didn’t really try to help more of them in a nice and kind way, did you?

If you did – maybe you’d get turned down with something that I got tens of times like “there is no wrong way to play! Shortbow for PvE is viable! It deals damage!”… And stuff like that happens if you do.
EDIT: I’ll mention that I was told countless times that I’m the one who does not listen.

Your first bet is wrong … I did try to help in a nice/kind way … what do I win? :-)

You are correct though. Some people do not take kindly to advice even when given in a friendly manner.

That being said, I’ve seen some people try to shove their “advice” down other people’s throats … that is a horrible way to go about it and those people have quite a valid reason for reacting negative to someone telling them “you’re doing it wrong!” or any other similar way of “giving advice”.

There is are big differences between “giving advice”, “critiquing”, and “criticizing”.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Sebrent.3625:

@Narkodx:
Precisely … but people shouldn’t “look down on” the bad players. It would behoove us all to be more helpful to those players so they can learn and stop being “bad”.

Also, part of being a “good” player is recognizing and understanding the pros/cons of each class, their abilities, their builds, etc. and what to do with that knowledge as well as when.

Every class has pros and cons.

I learned that this part is slightly incorrect.
… I bet that you didn’t really try to help more of them in a nice and kind way, did you?

If you did – maybe you’d get turned down with something that I got tens of times like “there is no wrong way to play! Shortbow for PvE is viable! It deals damage!”… And stuff like that happens if you do.
EDIT: I’ll mention that I was told countless times that I’m the one who does not listen.

Yeah I’ve given up. Some people can’t be helped.

Sebrent.3625:

Your first bet is wrong … I did try to help in a nice/kind way … what do I win? :-)

You are correct though. Some people do not take kindly to advice even when given in a friendly manner.

That being said, I’ve seen some people try to shove their “advice” down other people’s throats … that is a horrible way to go about it and those people have quite a valid reason for reacting negative to someone telling them “you’re doing it wrong!” or any other similar way of “giving advice”.

There is are big differences between “giving advice”, “critiquing”, and “criticizing”.

I always have a sequence in this.
For people I do not really know, that is.

I always tell them politely what the problem is, trying to explain why.
Then I do that again in an exact same way with different use of words.
If they stayed ignorant I switch to argument mode trying to disprove their blindness.
If nothing changed and I have been sent to hell 3 times already I objectively say that they are hopeless and enjoy the rest of the day =D

By the way, about helping “more of them”, is the number above 30? I sincerely stopped around that number. I also stopped hoping that it’s worth trying to learn those bearbows that there is a way to play the class without being disgraceful. Not more than 5 were nice. And I think I still have some of them in my friends list and we do dungeons together from time to time =)

I love this class and we need some love from anet.The pet is broken at the moment but also we need buff to be more helpfull to a party!I run survival skills most so I can not be in the fire,lol.To play this class you need speed,you can just stab through everything you must move!So play We that see the problem get together and get then to fix our loved class !Give us something like camouflage is or something make us stealth if we don’t move ,make opening strike and remorselss the same !Please anet so some love to this class three years i fought through this hate you must have for us,please!I also have to say give me my rainbow phoenix back!

@Tragic:
30 people isn’t that much, especially over the years this game has been out.
No need to count though, unless keeping score for some reason which seems odd to me.

@Slade:
Every class has some issues. We are all most aware of the issues that affect us more than the ones that don’t :-p

I share your hope that we’ll get some fixes to our own issues. I just recently compared my Ranger to my Mesmer doing the Living Story quests … my Ranger made the times on my Mesmer feel like I had been doing the living story quests with a handicap.