Guild Wars 2

Zenith.7301:

DD thieves are trash why would you ever run DD as opposed to DP, DP is better in every single way.

You run DD thief for pve single target damage cnd backstab rotation and that’s it.

A DP thief is a faceroll thief that doesn’t even need to risk missing a cnd because BP>HS stealth is guaranteed.

Or maybe you run both? Like for example I find I fight classes like necromancers (with minions), mesmers, and most rangers better with DD for reasons you can figure out why. So it’s my secondary. Actually no, primary DP secondary >.< depends on the encounter. That’s the take home point.

Yeah it was a good duel. You could have used that blinding slash more to pressure him! It’s a fairly low cd anyways. Having a wolf/jaguar since you do have signet of the hunt would have also made the duel even easier for you.

Raven is the pet that suffers most against moving targets even with signet/speed on as showed by recent tests in this forum.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zenith.7301:

DD thieves are trash why would you ever run DD as opposed to DP, DP is better in every single way.

You run DD thief for pve single target damage cnd backstab rotation and that’s it.

A DP thief is a faceroll thief that doesn’t even need to risk missing a cnd because BP>HS stealth is guaranteed.

Or maybe you run both? Like for example I find I fight classes like necromancers (with minions), mesmers, and most rangers better with DD for reasons you can figure out why. So it’s my secondary. Actually no, primary DP secondary >.< depends on the encounter. That’s the take home point.

EWWWW! No shortbow, I could never run my thief without it it’s too good (even if people can sidestrafe it, it’s pretty awesome for disengaging when you don’t have many cd’s up. Spamming that shortbow skill 3 alone into 3 evades with swiftness pretty much allows you to get away from anyone.

Zenith.7301:

Yeah it was a good duel. You could have used that blinding slash more to pressure him! It’s a fairly low cd anyways. Having a wolf/jaguar since you do have signet of the hunt would have also made the duel even easier for you.

Raven is the pet that suffers most against moving targets even with signet/speed on as showed by recent tests in this forum.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zenith.7301:

DD thieves are trash why would you ever run DD as opposed to DP, DP is better in every single way.

You run DD thief for pve single target damage cnd backstab rotation and that’s it.

A DP thief is a faceroll thief that doesn’t even need to risk missing a cnd because BP>HS stealth is guaranteed.

Or maybe you run both? Like for example I find I fight classes like necromancers (with minions), mesmers, and most rangers better with DD for reasons you can figure out why. So it’s my secondary. Actually no, primary DP secondary >.< depends on the encounter. That’s the take home point.

EWWWW! No shortbow, I could never run my thief without it it’s too good (even if people can sidestrafe it, it’s pretty awesome for disengaging when you don’t have many cd’s up. Spamming that shortbow skill 3 alone into 3 evades with swiftness pretty much allows you to get away from anyone.

Let’s not get carried away, for zerging okay, but 1v1 and such they nerfed that thing to kingdom come. Guess they only wanted rangers to have the shortbow. I use it for escaping though I’ll admit that.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zenith.7301:

Yeah it was a good duel. You could have used that blinding slash more to pressure him! It’s a fairly low cd anyways. Having a wolf/jaguar since you do have signet of the hunt would have also made the duel even easier for you.

Raven is the pet that suffers most against moving targets even with signet/speed on as showed by recent tests in this forum.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zenith.7301:

DD thieves are trash why would you ever run DD as opposed to DP, DP is better in every single way.

You run DD thief for pve single target damage cnd backstab rotation and that’s it.

A DP thief is a faceroll thief that doesn’t even need to risk missing a cnd because BP>HS stealth is guaranteed.

Or maybe you run both? Like for example I find I fight classes like necromancers (with minions), mesmers, and most rangers better with DD for reasons you can figure out why. So it’s my secondary. Actually no, primary DP secondary >.< depends on the encounter. That’s the take home point.

EWWWW! No shortbow, I could never run my thief without it it’s too good (even if people can sidestrafe it, it’s pretty awesome for disengaging when you don’t have many cd’s up. Spamming that shortbow skill 3 alone into 3 evades with swiftness pretty much allows you to get away from anyone.

Let’s not get carried away, for zerging okay, but 1v1 and such they nerfed that thing to kingdom come. Guess they only wanted rangers to have the shortbow. I use it for escaping though I’ll admit that.

I can link you a video of ranger shortbow getting sidestrafed as well. It’s not as bad as current thief, but it happens.

And ranger shortbow is only really good for the auto and skills 4 and 5. Skill 2 is pretty terrible, and the ranger shortbow has no aoe whatsoever while thief shortbow’s auto is aoe, cluster bomb is the best blast finisher in game that you can also spam and does kitten tons of damage, your evade skill is basically a way better version than the ranger’s (you can use it multiple times in a row), you got better version of the aoe poison with choking gas than poison spread from ranger, which is not a combo field either.

The shortbow may not be the titan it was 1v1 but as a group fight weapon it’s still better than anything the ranger could hope to bring. When I look at clusterbomb and then I look at the ranger bow’s only aoe attack, from the longbow on a 30 sec cd, I cry.

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7YW3EZvUA

You can see me fighting a D/P thief in this video

Thief played really bad. He chased you then BP + HS instantly instead of BP as soon as coming out of stealth to force you out of melee then HS for stealth.
Also he kept using Shadow Shot waaay too much from stealth to get a BS off on you causing him to waste too much initiative.

standard “Thief played really bad”

I pointed out what he did wrong, it wasn’t like i just said “he played bad” and left it at that.

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7YW3EZvUA

You can see me fighting a D/P thief in this video

Thief played really bad. He chased you then BP + HS instantly instead of BP as soon as coming out of stealth to force you out of melee then HS for stealth.
Also he kept using Shadow Shot waaay too much from stealth to get a BS off on you causing him to waste too much initiative.

standard “Thief played really bad”

I pointed out what he did wrong, it wasn’t like i just said “he played bad” and left it at that.

You realize the reason he was chasing me was because everytime he did his BP/Stealth I dodged away so i wouldn’t get back stabbed

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7YW3EZvUA

You can see me fighting a D/P thief in this video

Thief played really bad. He chased you then BP + HS instantly instead of BP as soon as coming out of stealth to force you out of melee then HS for stealth.
Also he kept using Shadow Shot waaay too much from stealth to get a BS off on you causing him to waste too much initiative.

standard “Thief played really bad”

I pointed out what he did wrong, it wasn’t like i just said “he played bad” and left it at that.

You realize the reason he was chasing me was because everytime he did his BP/Stealth I dodged away so i wouldn’t get back stabbed

Fully aware and you play your ranger very well like always but thats even more of a reason to not waste initiative for a gap closer from stealth. He should have just HS 1-2 times more in BP and gotten in BS position.

The thief you fought that was P/D in that other video played much better. If he could handle your condis a D/P should be able to NP since you dont need CnD to stealth.

Zenith.7301:

Yeah it was a good duel. You could have used that blinding slash more to pressure him! It’s a fairly low cd anyways. Having a wolf/jaguar since you do have signet of the hunt would have also made the duel even easier for you.

Raven is the pet that suffers most against moving targets even with signet/speed on as showed by recent tests in this forum.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zenith.7301:

DD thieves are trash why would you ever run DD as opposed to DP, DP is better in every single way.

You run DD thief for pve single target damage cnd backstab rotation and that’s it.

A DP thief is a faceroll thief that doesn’t even need to risk missing a cnd because BP>HS stealth is guaranteed.

Or maybe you run both? Like for example I find I fight classes like necromancers (with minions), mesmers, and most rangers better with DD for reasons you can figure out why. So it’s my secondary. Actually no, primary DP secondary >.< depends on the encounter. That’s the take home point.

EWWWW! No shortbow, I could never run my thief without it it’s too good (even if people can sidestrafe it, it’s pretty awesome for disengaging when you don’t have many cd’s up. Spamming that shortbow skill 3 alone into 3 evades with swiftness pretty much allows you to get away from anyone.

Could you ever sidestrafe thief shortbow? the things bend and move in midair like heatseeking missiles

Manekk.6981:

Zenith.7301:

Yeah it was a good duel. You could have used that blinding slash more to pressure him! It’s a fairly low cd anyways. Having a wolf/jaguar since you do have signet of the hunt would have also made the duel even easier for you.

Raven is the pet that suffers most against moving targets even with signet/speed on as showed by recent tests in this forum.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zenith.7301:

DD thieves are trash why would you ever run DD as opposed to DP, DP is better in every single way.

You run DD thief for pve single target damage cnd backstab rotation and that’s it.

A DP thief is a faceroll thief that doesn’t even need to risk missing a cnd because BP>HS stealth is guaranteed.

Or maybe you run both? Like for example I find I fight classes like necromancers (with minions), mesmers, and most rangers better with DD for reasons you can figure out why. So it’s my secondary. Actually no, primary DP secondary >.< depends on the encounter. That’s the take home point.

EWWWW! No shortbow, I could never run my thief without it it’s too good (even if people can sidestrafe it, it’s pretty awesome for disengaging when you don’t have many cd’s up. Spamming that shortbow skill 3 alone into 3 evades with swiftness pretty much allows you to get away from anyone.

Could you ever sidestrafe thief shortbow? the things bend and move in midair like heatseeking missiles

Yes, you can now. Their projectile speed was heftily nerfed this patch.

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7YW3EZvUA

You can see me fighting a D/P thief in this video

Thief played really bad. He chased you then BP + HS instantly instead of BP as soon as coming out of stealth to force you out of melee then HS for stealth.
Also he kept using Shadow Shot waaay too much from stealth to get a BS off on you causing him to waste too much initiative.

standard “Thief played really bad”

I pointed out what he did wrong, it wasn’t like i just said “he played bad” and left it at that.

You realize the reason he was chasing me was because everytime he did his BP/Stealth I dodged away so i wouldn’t get back stabbed

Fully aware and you play your ranger very well like always but thats even more of a reason to not waste initiative for a gap closer from stealth. He should have just HS 1-2 times more in BP and gotten in BS position.

The thief you fought that was P/D in that other video played much better. If he could handle your condis a D/P should be able to NP since you dont need CnD to stealth.

And while he’s HS more through BP Xsorus would have kited further away from range. Your only gap closer after wasting shadow step or signet is steal on a considerable cd.

The fact that the thief has not emerged after 4 seconds within the first BP should tell you he has extended duration and you should react accordingly.

And in that duel you can clearly see that at the very best that thief took Xsorus down to 55-60% HP. Xsorus never dipped below 30%, and a couple more backstabs would not have changed that. He’s able to stall and kite out the thief in between his heals just fine.

I think the discussion is moving too much into the realm of “paper” PvP so ill stop it here. I will say this though. If you want to kill a thief just play a phantasm mesmer they will kill a thief and anything else 1v1 NP.

If solo, which I often am, I just ignore the thief and go on about my business. If he tries to follow, I’ll put pet on him and go on about my business. Solo thief isn’t dangerous, just annoying.

Now, on Saturday night when I ran into a full group of thieves (on 3 different occasions)…well that was another story. Ouch!

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

You can see me fighting a D/P thief in this video

Thief played really bad. He chased you then BP + HS instantly instead of BP as soon as coming out of stealth to force you out of melee then HS for stealth.
Also he kept using Shadow Shot waaay too much from stealth to get a BS off on you causing him to waste too much initiative.

standard “Thief played really bad”

That’s not “really bad”. Really bad is the thief that my raven nearly solo’d. I was laughing my kitten off watching him run around, stealth/unstealth, and run around some more trying to figure out what was kicking his kitten (was amidst a 20v20 smashfest at a supply camp). He finally ran beyond my pet’s range. I don’t think he ever did figure it out. :-)

FWIW, bird pets do really well against stealth thieves because they are hard to hit (and hit pretty hard) and will beeline for them when they come out of stealth. Ravens are particularly good thx to their F2 blind. Thief stealths, you F2…..when they come out of stealth, raven swoops in and blinds them.

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7YW3EZvUA

You can see me fighting a D/P thief in this video

Thief played really bad. He chased you then BP + HS instantly instead of BP as soon as coming out of stealth to force you out of melee then HS for stealth.
Also he kept using Shadow Shot waaay too much from stealth to get a BS off on you causing him to waste too much initiative.

standard “Thief played really bad”

I pointed out what he did wrong, it wasn’t like i just said “he played bad” and left it at that.

You realize the reason he was chasing me was because everytime he did his BP/Stealth I dodged away so i wouldn’t get back stabbed

Fully aware and you play your ranger very well like always but thats even more of a reason to not waste initiative for a gap closer from stealth. He should have just HS 1-2 times more in BP and gotten in BS position.

The thief you fought that was P/D in that other video played much better. If he could handle your condis a D/P should be able to NP since you dont need CnD to stealth.

Okay Puandro bring light in the dark:
NP?
BS?
HS?
BP?

Yours
Ira

Small groups 3-5 all thief is nearly unbeatable

I read a lot of thief topic and summarize.

Thief kill player.
Thief : good thief
player : noob

Thief can’t kill player and escape.
Thief : good thief
player : noob , go L2couter thief

Player can’t kill thief and escape.
Thief : good thief
player : noob , L2P

Player kill thief.
Thief : You just kill a bad thief.
player : noob you can’t kill good thief.

summarize

Good thief can’t kill,can’t couter and alway escape.

Player can’t kill good thief and if you kill thief(even skill/pro/elite thief)
They will said you just kill bad thief.
AND even you are skill/pro/master player on Expert skillfull Elite on your class if you one mistake they yell noob,L2P on your face alway and alway.

LOL~

Back to topic

If thief not allow you spot weak point you can’t kill stealth thief.
If you can’t control place on your foot you can’t kill stealth thief too.
Trap is good choice for it to control your ground force them out on it.

But in WWW is real hard because it open map they can pop in pop out whatever they want.
In Xsorus.2507 youtube is example He use AoE earth pillar/Bonfire to condi thief to make them chooes fight or out of advance on him and you see thief can 5>2 gain stealth is easy enough.
(can you couth how many time thief go stealth by5-2 in youtube?)
IF thief NEED TO out of combat thief can run alway without harm.
(But this time he not…)

On PvP MAP*IS*Small

ma kitten mall <<<stop stupid cencership!!

and it force player pop out to control point no place to hide
No where to run you are in small room/map togather and you need come out to fight.

Not really. Bring in a couple of engineers/eles and the thieves will die.

The biggest counter to a thief is CC. If they switch to sword for stunbreaks then they’re doing kitten burst anyways and you can just gib them.

Thieves are very bipolar things.

Very broken 1v1 but as soon as a team fight starts happening all they’re good for is going and gibbing a wounded player and then gtfo because they’ll die in a couple of seconds to team focus if they don’t.

And the problem behind all this is them being balanced on the broken mechanic that is stealth and a backstab that costs too little initiative and is easy to spam relative to classes like an ele who need to wait 45 secs for fire grab to come off cd.

Make stealth break on hit, make defensive and offensive skills actually have hefty initiative costs — stealth skills should be utility skills not burst skills. Thief should have to spend their initiative to do significant damage not just half of it to do stupid burst or reset and quickly regen it back.

When you break the stealth spam and low ini cost burst, then you give thief better sustained. More protection, healing on weaponskills instead of stealth spam.

Assassin.7890:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7YW3EZvUA

You can see me fighting a D/P thief in this video

Thief played really bad. He chased you then BP + HS instantly instead of BP as soon as coming out of stealth to force you out of melee then HS for stealth.
Also he kept using Shadow Shot waaay too much from stealth to get a BS off on you causing him to waste too much initiative.

standard “Thief played really bad”

I pointed out what he did wrong, it wasn’t like i just said “he played bad” and left it at that.

You realize the reason he was chasing me was because everytime he did his BP/Stealth I dodged away so i wouldn’t get back stabbed

Fully aware and you play your ranger very well like always but thats even more of a reason to not waste initiative for a gap closer from stealth. He should have just HS 1-2 times more in BP and gotten in BS position.

The thief you fought that was P/D in that other video played much better. If he could handle your condis a D/P should be able to NP since you dont need CnD to stealth.

Okay Puandro bring light in the dark:
NP?
BS?
HS?
BP?

Yours
Ira

NP= no problem
BS= backstab
HS= heartseeker
BP= black powder

I think that’s what you’re asking and I think I got it right

Zenith.7301:

Make stealth break on hit,

I think this would kill the class. If stealth ends “early”, they get the Reveal debuff. That’s 3 seconds of being exposed. In 3 seconds most classes could burst them down.

In WoW, thieves were a PITA, just like here. Once they added Flare to the ranger class (they call them Hunter) which “revealed” the thief, most re-rolled other characters because stealth during PvP was their only advantage. Without it, they were a paper class that couldn’t even reach a ranged foe without dying, let alone hurt them. I hope for their sake Anet at least learned that lesson from WoW (now I wish they’d learn the “nerfing builds into the ground to appease the QQ’ing noobs = death of the game” lesson……).

Thorson.9218:

Zenith.7301:

Make stealth break on hit,

I think this would kill the class. If stealth ends “early”, they get the Reveal debuff. That’s 3 seconds of being exposed. In 3 seconds most classes could burst them down.

In WoW, thieves were a PITA, just like here. Once they added Flare to the ranger class (they call them Hunter) which “revealed” the thief, most re-rolled other characters because stealth during PvP was their only advantage. Without it, they were a paper class that couldn’t even reach a ranged foe without dying, let alone hurt them. I hope for their sake Anet at least learned that lesson from WoW (now I wish they’d learn the “nerfing builds into the ground to appease the QQ’ing noobs = death of the game” lesson……).

This is a flat out lie. Flare for hunters was easily countered by rogues. You could shadowstep to the hunter and the flare debuff had a delay before appearing so you could get the opener, and you could do the same with sprint while in stealth.

And GC thieves dying in a few seconds while revealed? Welcome to the world of GC, because my GC ranger dies in about the same time, as does a GC ele with only 13k hp.

The fact is current GC thieves pretty much hardcounter any other GC build in this game, and that’s why unless you’re running with a team most classes HAVE to spec bunker to roam otherwise they get gibbed by thieves.

All other GC builds are very fragile and need team protection because they don’t have all the target drops and escape abilities of a thief. The thief is pretty much the only self sufficient GC besides mesmer.

Thorson.9218:

Zenith.7301:

Make stealth break on hit,

I think this would kill the class. If stealth ends “early”, they get the Reveal debuff. That’s 3 seconds of being exposed. In 3 seconds most classes could burst them down.

In WoW, thieves were a PITA, just like here. Once they added Flare to the ranger class (they call them Hunter) which “revealed” the thief, most re-rolled other characters because stealth during PvP was their only advantage. Without it, they were a paper class that couldn’t even reach a ranged foe without dying, let alone hurt them. I hope for their sake Anet at least learned that lesson from WoW (now I wish they’d learn the “nerfing builds into the ground to appease the QQ’ing noobs = death of the game” lesson……).

This is not WoW and pretty much everything you said in your analogy is false.

I’ve ran into some really really bad thieves….

The Worst ever was the 2 berserker thieves that spammed Heart Seeker (and i mean just spammed that ) at me right after I Pain Invertered them…

That was absolutely hilarious..and sad… very sad..

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve ran into some really really bad thieves….

The Worst ever was the 2 berserker thieves that spammed Heart Seeker (and i mean just spammed that ) at me right after I Pain Invertered them…

That was absolutely hilarious..and sad… very sad..

There are really bad (insert class) in the game. The more popular a class is the more you see them though. I feel this game its pretty easy to see who is bad though due to the lack of passive defense on most classes so you cant get by just having the game block/parry/dodge for you like in many games.

I love GW2 and its pretty kitten balanced TBH from release until now but downstate in WvW just makes me sad

Also WTB “old bridges and ladders” :p.

Make it happen Anet!!!

Tons of ways to stop a thief, but they all require you to learn to do a few basic things:
1. Learn how thiefs play, if you have not created one do it and immediately go to PvP so you get to play as one and have an understanding of how they work. The first 10!20 levels or so levels in PvE should be enough to have a good sense of them.
2. After that, revise your playstyle. If you geared and traited your ranger to do damage, you are likely not putting much into making your ranger tough and damage resistant. Well a squishy target is every thief’s dream, because they truly shine in short fights. The best recommendation I give you is to explore Beast Master ranger builds.
3. Once you have done a little something to mitigate damage against you and you understand how thiefs play, then you can get creative. I went to WvW and purposedly got into 1 vs 1 fights with thiefs. I learned what I was doing wrong and tried something new everytime.

I know that when thiefs engage in fights, over 80% of the time they will try to very quickly get to you and plant some backstabs all over your face. They might also try to do something to blind you or stun you while they do that. Also I know that when thiefs stealth they are either going to try to back stab you or buy time to heal and recharge their cooldowns. In all these cases, you can always expect a backstab and most of the time have no way of getting around the thief trying to do that. Use fire trap or ice trap under you and wait for the thief to trigger it. The very instant that happens, dodge or block (with greatsword) or monarch’s leap (sword 2) or longbow 4 them away, or shortbow 5 stun them in the face, anything to disable their burst. I like fire trap as it will put condition damage on them and allow me to put even more conditions. Your pet will attack the thief but once you got away from their burst have it do it’s F2 on the thief BEFORE they stealth. If they use shadow refuge, run with your wolf and fear them out of it, or throw another trap smack in the middle. Do not forget that as a thief stealths you should try and use your heal, or if you see a thief coming your way, wait a few seconds and pop that troll unguent, or just as they stealth, wait 1 or 2 seconds and use it.

That was a lot to read but I can say more. In short don’t be squishy, using a trap to identify a thief in stealth saved me 200% of the times from getting back stabbed, it helped me counter the thief and dish enough damage to either kill them or send them into stealth, enough time for me to relax and get ready for their next attacks.

Maybe it is a woman?? :-)

1: Have enough survivability to survive the initial damage. This means at least 1400 toughness.
2: AoE damage is more important then snare skills. This is your best weapon against a high burst melee Thief. If you see the Thief, you simply drop the AoE on him, and when he goes into stealth, you drop the AoE under yourself. This takes some timing and practice of curse, as you are limited to recharge times. But the point is, most Thieves only know one combo, and many don’t have patience or ability to think outside the box, so when you force them to break their attack on you, you disrupt their technique, which in turn makes them vulnerable.
3: Be mindful of your condition stacks. The Thief can remove conditions simply by using stealth, but usually only one condition at a time. So dealing bleeding and then following up with immobilize, will only cause the bleeding to be removed, should the Thief go into stealth. But usually, it’s a lot more valuable to get the condition damage to stick, instead of the snare condition.
4: Don’t run away, stand your ground. Turning your back to a Thief, usually means you’re dead. If you want to run, damage the Thief so he gets low on health. This will make him run away to heal, which allows you to do the same, without getting downed.

A lot of what I see being said here is theoretical. I’ve been playing a Ranger since the BWE’s and thieves are killable OR survivable depending on their skill level and your build. If you are looking to devise a build specifically to deal with thieves, then it is possible, no question.

‘Deal with’ however will not always mean kill. As has been said, if a thief is good enough, the best you can do is ensure they run away…which they can and will do, at will. C’est la vie.

Puandro.3245:

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve ran into some really really bad thieves….

The Worst ever was the 2 berserker thieves that spammed Heart Seeker (and i mean just spammed that ) at me right after I Pain Invertered them…

That was absolutely hilarious..and sad… very sad..

There are really bad (insert class) in the game. The more popular a class is the more you see them though. I feel this game its pretty easy to see who is bad though due to the lack of passive defense on most classes so you cant get by just having the game block/parry/dodge for you like in many games.

I love GW2 and its pretty kitten balanced TBH from release until now but downstate in WvW just makes me sad

Downstate makes me want to punch a baby in the face.

Worst PvP mechanic i’ve seen in a game to date.

Giving everyone the ability to res in combat is just stupid..

I love it in tpvp. It reduces the value of zerging someone down with spike when a sustained damage team can bring you down after and be better at getting the stomp that the other team.

In WvW it’s kinda even necessary in zerg fights, and for PvE several of the encounters are designed with the boss having the capacity to reliably down people (like Mossman at fractal 48).

Zenith.7301:

I love it in tpvp. It reduces the value of zerging someone down with spike when a sustained damage team can bring you down after and be better at getting the stomp that the other team.

In WvW it’s kinda even necessary in zerg fights, and for PvE several of the encounters are designed with the boss having the capacity to reliably down people (like Mossman at fractal 48).

I’m sure its fine for TPvP

I just don’t believe its fine for WVW, where you can fight while outnumbered and have some kitten get ressed cause some Rabbit died next to him.

Xsorus.2507:

Zenith.7301:

I love it in tpvp. It reduces the value of zerging someone down with spike when a sustained damage team can bring you down after and be better at getting the stomp that the other team.

In WvW it’s kinda even necessary in zerg fights, and for PvE several of the encounters are designed with the boss having the capacity to reliably down people (like Mossman at fractal 48).

I’m sure its fine for TPvP

I just don’t believe its fine for WVW, where you can fight while outnumbered and have some kitten get ressed cause some Rabbit died next to him.

Yeah I completely agree in wvw killing critters should not rez you, and you should not be able to cnd off them or gain any benefit from mobs around.

Zenith.7301:

I love it in tpvp. It reduces the value of zerging someone down with spike when a sustained damage team can bring you down after and be better at getting the stomp that the other team.

In WvW it’s kinda even necessary in zerg fights, and for PvE several of the encounters are designed with the boss having the capacity to reliably down people (like Mossman at fractal 48).

Down state is fine in TPvP because its fought on points to take. Down state balance between classes is really bad. Glass cannons dealing too much damage while downed is also unbalanced. The rally system is also pure BS. For example you down their mesmer and ele, then your bunker guardian goes down trying to stomp. Mesmer #2 and Ele #2 will be avoided with a stomp while your guardian will get stomped with stability and now their 2 downed persons rally. Not only does this happens due to unbalanced down states between classes but the fact that they rally is dumb. Really downstate should only exist in TPvP and you should only be allowed to use #4 or suicide.

PvE downstate also is bad design. It makes berserker stats even more wanted because if someone goes down no need to use utilities to rez when you can just kill stuff and rally (unless its a boss). My toons wear full berserker for PvE its silly how good it is as long as you don’t suck which isnt hard to do. You should just straight up die and make people decide to bring rez utilities or play tankier.

WvW Downstate is the biggest culprit here. It makes bigger numbers have a bigger advantage than they already have. You down 4-5 of their guys but they get 1 of your guys and dps their body so fast due to greater numbers so you cant rez and their 4-5 people rally its so frustrating. The AoE limit on 5 enemies also doesn’t really help smaller numbers. Lastly nothing like doing a 1vX and somehow a mob adds, you down an enemy and go for an invul/stability stomp and the mob dies while they are trying to kill you with AoE and the guy rallies….. so frustrating.

Puandro.3245:

Zenith.7301:

I love it in tpvp. It reduces the value of zerging someone down with spike when a sustained damage team can bring you down after and be better at getting the stomp that the other team.

In WvW it’s kinda even necessary in zerg fights, and for PvE several of the encounters are designed with the boss having the capacity to reliably down people (like Mossman at fractal 48).

Down state is fine in TPvP because its fought on points to take. Down state balance between classes is really bad. Glass cannons dealing too much damage while downed is also unbalanced. The rally system is also pure BS. For example you down their mesmer and ele, then your bunker guardian goes down trying to stomp. Mesmer #2 and Ele #2 will be avoided with a stomp while your guardian will get stomped with stability and now their 2 downed persons rally. Not only does this happens due to unbalanced down states between classes but the fact that they rally is dumb. Really downstate should only exist in TPvP and you should only be allowed to use #4 or suicide.

PvE downstate also is bad design. It makes berserker stats even more wanted because if someone goes down no need to use utilities to rez when you can just kill stuff and rally (unless its a boss). My toons wear full berserker for PvE its silly how good it is as long as you don’t suck which isnt hard to do. You should just straight up die and make people decide to bring rez utilities or play tankier.

WvW Downstate is the biggest culprit here. It makes bigger numbers have a bigger advantage than they already have. You down 4-5 of their guys but they get 1 of your guys and dps their body so fast due to greater numbers so you cant rez and their 4-5 people rally its so frustrating. The AoE limit on 5 enemies also doesn’t really help smaller numbers. Lastly nothing like doing a 1vX and somehow a mob adds, you down an enemy and go for an invul/stability stomp and the mob dies while they are trying to kill you with AoE and the guy rallies….. so frustrating.

Yeah, downed state skills have pretty shoddy balance. The necro one is the worst of them all, not only having bugged HP but it’s a single target fear with a long activation time.

As for stability stomp, I think that’s more an issue with stability being too good in its current state. Stability should work more like defiance where say it blocks 2 CC’s and then wears off. At the moment Stand Your Ground is one of the most absurd skills ingame.

I also think mesmer/ele/thief downed states are too good, or the other ones are too bad. Thief in particular just forces you to DPS his body because you won’t be stomping him for long.

As far as pve, just no. Rallying is a necessary feature like in fractal 48 grawl shaman or the mossman. Otherwise agony straight up kills you if it hits you in downed state because you can’t dodge it.

WvW zerging rewards is really messed up. At the current state it’s the most profitable thing to do in wvw. It yields the most bags and the most results. They should seriously implement more features like Siegerazer all across the map when people are getting outmanned by zergs.

Imagine like those bounty hunt champs that completely annihilate zergs (they become much harder the more upscaled they are) being put into WvW to dissuade zerging. Whenever a group greater than 20-25 people is around, the champs start to activate around the map or people get the option of summoning one to the area.

Puandro.3245:

Zenith.7301:

I love it in tpvp. It reduces the value of zerging someone down with spike when a sustained damage team can bring you down after and be better at getting the stomp that the other team.

In WvW it’s kinda even necessary in zerg fights, and for PvE several of the encounters are designed with the boss having the capacity to reliably down people (like Mossman at fractal 48).

Down state is fine in TPvP because its fought on points to take. Down state balance between classes is really bad. Glass cannons dealing too much damage while downed is also unbalanced. The rally system is also pure BS. For example you down their mesmer and ele, then your bunker guardian goes down trying to stomp. Mesmer #2 and Ele #2 will be avoided with a stomp while your guardian will get stomped with stability and now their 2 downed persons rally. Not only does this happens due to unbalanced down states between classes but the fact that they rally is dumb. Really downstate should only exist in TPvP and you should only be allowed to use #4 or suicide.

PvE downstate also is bad design. It makes berserker stats even more wanted because if someone goes down no need to use utilities to rez when you can just kill stuff and rally (unless its a boss). My toons wear full berserker for PvE its silly how good it is as long as you don’t suck which isnt hard to do. You should just straight up die and make people decide to bring rez utilities or play tankier.

WvW Downstate is the biggest culprit here. It makes bigger numbers have a bigger advantage than they already have. You down 4-5 of their guys but they get 1 of your guys and dps their body so fast due to greater numbers so you cant rez and their 4-5 people rally its so frustrating. The AoE limit on 5 enemies also doesn’t really help smaller numbers. Lastly nothing like doing a 1vX and somehow a mob adds, you down an enemy and go for an invul/stability stomp and the mob dies while they are trying to kill you with AoE and the guy rallies….. so frustrating.

This..

All it takes is soloing in this game on a class that doesn’t have a reliable source stability so you can stomp someone to realize how freakin awful Downstate is..

In fact, I’m going to upload a movie that shows a perfect example of what complete bullkitten the downsystem is.

IMHO, stealth is too available . It is a great mechanic but it can be spammed

Chokolata.1870:

IMHO, stealth is too available . It is a great mechanic but it can be spammed

I agree, don’t really like how it works in gw2 I prefer a more classical stealth mechanic from other games where you might have perma stealth if you wish to avoid combat but it always breaks if you get hit or attack someone, you can still have alternate means to re-enter stealth as an escape but that should be on longer CDs like utility skills rather than and endless supply from weaponskills.

Then again I have to admit as annoying as it can be to face thieves in gw2 they are still far more balanced than any other rogue type class I have played in other games but that’s generally been that they are always given a ridiculous amount of control in diffrent CCs like saps, stuns, blinds, silences etc. rather than just stealth.

Zenith.7301:

Xsorus.2507:

Zenith.7301:

I love it in tpvp. It reduces the value of zerging someone down with spike when a sustained damage team can bring you down after and be better at getting the stomp that the other team.

In WvW it’s kinda even necessary in zerg fights, and for PvE several of the encounters are designed with the boss having the capacity to reliably down people (like Mossman at fractal 48).

I’m sure its fine for TPvP

I just don’t believe its fine for WVW, where you can fight while outnumbered and have some kitten get ressed cause some Rabbit died next to him.

Yeah I completely agree in wvw killing critters should not rez you, and you should not be able to cnd off them or gain any benefit from mobs around.

Everyone loves and hates downstate, it really does give an unfair extra advantage to whomever has the numbers on their side though.

I do wonder why you can’t stomp in water though is there a real reason for that or is it just to give variety in downstate?

Manekk.6981:

Zenith.7301:

Xsorus.2507:

Zenith.7301:

I love it in tpvp. It reduces the value of zerging someone down with spike when a sustained damage team can bring you down after and be better at getting the stomp that the other team.

In WvW it’s kinda even necessary in zerg fights, and for PvE several of the encounters are designed with the boss having the capacity to reliably down people (like Mossman at fractal 48).

I’m sure its fine for TPvP

I just don’t believe its fine for WVW, where you can fight while outnumbered and have some kitten get ressed cause some Rabbit died next to him.

Yeah I completely agree in wvw killing critters should not rez you, and you should not be able to cnd off them or gain any benefit from mobs around.

Everyone loves and hates downstate, it really does give an unfair extra advantage to whomever has the numbers on their side though.

I do wonder why you can’t stomp in water though is there a real reason for that or is it just to give variety in downstate?

So rangers can troll people underwater.

In all of these videos, it’s quite Obvious how the thief is able to Regain Full Health while in Stealth. Very poor design and Mechanics

It shouldn’t take all Time to defeat any classes; to begin with; 1—15+ min is Ludicrous and it shows you how ‘hard bearing’ it is for us rangers in dealing with them.

Those rangers was lucky fighting the thief, for that long period of time, could’ve got ambushed so easily.

So…

Only 1 class who’s able to regain full health while being “Invisible”, set the stage of the fight and to Reset it, is none other than the Golden Child class; the thief.

What a shame

To answer your question OP “how do you kill a stealth thief???”

It’s simple, all you need is Time, Spamming and Luck

By the way, those rangers in the videos did a Good Job.

For another perspective of ranger vs d/p burst thief.

http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/b/402944399
skip to 1:44:00

Traps prety much counter dagger thieves. If they try and stall it gives you more time for your traps to come off cooldown so you can throw them out as soon as the first ones go off.

You can dodge through the spike trap so you don’t get rooted, and then you get out of fire and stealth reset, set up a backstab.

Trap rangers are VERY strong against bunkers, but they are rather weak against proper mesmer/thief burst.

Well played Trap Rangers absolutely kitten me now after the nerf to PI, I use to be able to basically kill them with that.. but I don’t have that anymore to burst… so a Trap Ranger will just gut me.

Xsorus.2507:

Well played Trap Rangers absolutely kitten me now after the nerf to PI, I use to be able to basically kill them with that.. but I don’t have that anymore to burst… so a Trap Ranger will just gut me.

I just dueled an ele friend on d/d bunker.

Ran 30% speed bonus trait for pet (better than signet of the hunt’s 25%).

I used raven. I used dog. I used cat. Result was the same.

He moved, used auras, and my pet’s uptime on him was pretty much below 40%. It was so aggravating to know I was stuck in a stalemate because my garbage AI mechanic couldn’t properly attack while moving instead of rooting itself to attack.

The raven in particular was maddening because it will autocasts its group speed and that means it stops for a second doing the swooping animation where it’s casting and the ele is long gone.

And chill/cripples did absolutely nothing since he was running cantrips and condi removal (dueled him earlier on conditionmancer, it’s absolutely hopeless to keep conditions on that ele spec unless you’re an engineer with multiple condition types on low cd’s).

BTW Ricochet did 194 damage a pop to him. His regen boon outhealed ricochet’s damage.

The only time my pet hit him was when he came for me in fire/air attunement and I sat there in place and let him melee me while my pet hit him as he was standing still. Any other time and my pet was trailing behind like a mongoloid.

People complain about BM bunker ranger but without condi uptime (so classes like ele and cleanse thief and guardian) ALL your damage is the pet. So when the pet can be trivialized by just moving you’re left with the ranger’s horrid autoattack.

If you are BM ranger ( 0 0 30 10 30) with half of brain, then there isnt any build in the game that could kill you. However there might be builds you will not kill due to lack of damage (other BM rangers, trolling build thieves..), if played by person with some skill.

mesmers can kill you…
I mean 2 mesmers at once :P

Phantasm mesmer should be able to kill BM ranger.

Zenith.7301:

Phantasm mesmer should be able to kill BM ranger.

It kills everything 1v1.

Xsorus.2507:

This..

All it takes is soloing in this game on a class that doesn’t have a reliable source stability so you can stomp someone to realize how freakin awful Downstate is..

In fact, I’m going to upload a movie that shows a perfect example of what complete bullkitten the downsystem is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aviO-mBg6s8

All of that could have been avoided by hiding behind the pet during the warrior stomp or simply attacking instead of stomping.

mesmers be imba

I have actually had a lot of success killing stealth thieves after the new patch. (who allow themselves to die, you still cannot catch them if they decide to run)

And this might sound like a ridiculous solution, but the answer is: Spirits.

My build is:
0/30/10/30/0

Skirmishing: IV, VIII, XI
Wilderness Survival: III
Nature Magic: IV, VIII, XI

Weapons:
Sword/Warhorn + Shortbow

Utility:
Troll, Flame Trap, Stone Spirit, Sun Spirit

And you can use RaO or Entangle I really use whichever one I feel like at the time.
For pets, I use 2x Spiders, Cave and Jungle. Your pets aren’t there to deal damage they’re just around to rack up more burns and for the F2 when you want it. Using a ranged pet means you don’t have to deal with them trying to track to the thief as he zips all over the place and who knows, you may just get a lucky immobilize.

Armor is Carrion, I build for condition damage and having decent Vitality.

The way it works is you stay mainly in Sword/Horn while fighting them, this is for the mobility, and you will NEED it. Sword is our most mobile weapon, if you know how to use it, ensure that you know how to sword dodge backwards twice (or in the direction of your choice) by using “About Face” and dropping your target. And of course, you’ll need autotarget off.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to learn how to sword dodge.

What you need to keep in mind while fighting a constant stealth thief is that you are trying to stay alive, not beat them. Remember, they can run at any time. It’s only when they get overconfident (or actually feel like having a real 1v1) that you will win, so don’t get overconfident yourself, that’s how you die.

The bane of constant stealth thieves is anything that can hit them while they can’t be targeted, like conditions, and channeled attacks. You will basically be doing only a few things while fighting—casting your heal EVERY time it is up, (including at the beginning of the encounter before any damage is taken) dropping Flame Trap, and casting Warhorn 4 on the few times you can target the thief—because it’s a channel. The rest of your skills should not be used offensively, but defensively. Do not use Sword 3 to poison. Use it to dodge. Do not use Sword 2 for anything but dodging. Dodge and move ALL the time. If you are standing still you need to be standing in a trap, otherwise you need to be moving. Keep your pet on aggressive and just let it range away, proccing additional burns from your spirit. Do not swap into Shortbow unless the Thief starts running and is low enough on health that you feel -very- confident they will die from the bleeds/burns before they get away. Shortbow does not have enough evade for in general fighting, and swapping to it early can get you killed.

I use a combo of Earth (4) and Grove (2) runes to increase the duration of the protection procs from Stone Spirit and to benefit from the protection chance from the runes themselves, but this might be optional. Never tried it without it, but you probably could.

I have yet to lose to a stealth spamming thief with this build unless I ended up fighting in a bad place—on a narrow bridge for example, a place where you can’t have the mobility you need. Also, it’s actually not that difficult to escape if you need to, once you learn how to sword dodge to run, and since you do have on demand swiftness. If you want to -really- escape from battle, you could run Greatsword instead of Shortbow, chaining Sword dodge together and then swapping into Swoop, but I feel a little helpless without any ranged attacks. But it’s your playstyle. I can guarantee however, that using this setup, you will at least fare better than you think you would, against stealth thieves.

We aren’t free meals for them anymore.