Guild Wars 2

its time to bring back a trait in nature magic that make them mobile and cast the active when die so they can be actually useful again.
also i need my petting zoo back and a druid without walking spirits is not a druid.

reduce CD of nature spirit to 100 seconds maybe too much?

Are the spirits really fixed?
Or… was that irony?

I can’t check at the moment, but since nothing was mentioned in the notes, I assumed that spirits still prioritize minions.

yep in reddit they aresaying the boons now prioritize the players before the npc.
So now would be nice if they bring back the choice to make them mobile.

oh, great! I hope reddit is right, can anyone confirm this?
Can’t wait to have my zoo around again. <3

I’d love it too, if we had the option to make them mobile again (not least because of fluff), but I suppose it’s ok, the way they are now.

Funny though, they didn’t mention anything in the patch notes…

Edit: typos all over the place…

I miss mobile spirits too! It felt nice having them follow u around

Trait for mobile spirits, sure. But first, they still need to fix Frost and Storm Spirit boon durations to work when traiting for Nature’s Vengeance.

Has anyone measured Sun Spirit’s dps? Seems way lower than Frost’s.

anduriell.6280:

yep in reddit they aresaying the boons now prioritize the players before the npc.
So now would be nice if they bring back the choice to make them mobile.

I believe they are powerful enough to stay immobile.
I’d just want to make them so they aren’t interrupted 80% of the time and their actives go off all the time. There’s way too much counter-play to them already.

Tragic Positive.9356:

anduriell.6280:

yep in reddit they aresaying the boons now prioritize the players before the npc.
So now would be nice if they bring back the choice to make them mobile.

I believe they are powerful enough to stay immobile.
I’d just want to make them so they aren’t interrupted 80% of the time and their actives go off all the time. There’s way too much counter-play to them already.

How much use do ppl really see when it comes to active effect of spirits? Truth please!

OGDeadHead.8326:

Tragic Positive.9356:

anduriell.6280:

yep in reddit they aresaying the boons now prioritize the players before the npc.
So now would be nice if they bring back the choice to make them mobile.

I believe they are powerful enough to stay immobile.
I’d just want to make them so they aren’t interrupted 80% of the time and their actives go off all the time. There’s way too much counter-play to them already.

How much use do ppl really see when it comes to active effect of spirits? Truth please!

I was using sunspirit like a trap for a while but when it takes 3 seconds to slam its fist down its not very reliable. Once I dumped that I picked up spike trap which presents its own problem with minions running around.

They should be mobile always, not stupid stationary holograms

Sandpit.3467:

They should be mobile always, not stupid stationary holograms

Always is not a good idea, a bunch of players like them to be stupid stationary holograms.
There are times that you would like them to stay in one place safe from damage, but most of the time being able to follow you is actually what we need.

Actives are never used, and with the new damage reduction them following you makes them actually stand a chance.
In WvW – PvP they don’t have that damage reduction, although i would make them to have like a 50% damage reduction when not focused, to avoid them insta-dying when caught up in a AoE area.

So yeah, the trait to allow us to have the choice to make them mobile and also to trigger the active when dead because we don’t have a timer or access to the health bar to activate it when its right, should be brought back as soon as possible.

It does not limit any actual builds, we have too many trash filler traits that should be mash up together (opening strike – Alpha training anyone? ) and will bring more variety to the game.

We should push for this, the grand majority (not counting some trolls they come here just asking for nerfs) wants this because it will bring more variety to the game.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Tragic Positive.9356:

anduriell.6280:

yep in reddit they aresaying the boons now prioritize the players before the npc.
So now would be nice if they bring back the choice to make them mobile.

I believe they are powerful enough to stay immobile.
I’d just want to make them so they aren’t interrupted 80% of the time and their actives go off all the time. There’s way too much counter-play to them already.

How much use do ppl really see when it comes to active effect of spirits? Truth please!

That’s why I suggested they should become reliable and able to be used for actives reliably?
Mobility has nothing in common with their actives.

Tragic Positive.9356:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Tragic Positive.9356:

anduriell.6280:

yep in reddit they aresaying the boons now prioritize the players before the npc.
So now would be nice if they bring back the choice to make them mobile.

I believe they are powerful enough to stay immobile.
I’d just want to make them so they aren’t interrupted 80% of the time and their actives go off all the time. There’s way too much counter-play to them already.

How much use do ppl really see when it comes to active effect of spirits? Truth please!

That’s why I suggested they should become reliable and able to be used for actives reliably?
Mobility has nothing in common with their actives.

The actives where designed for when the spirits where mobile. The lack of radious suggest that: same modus operandi as the glyphs (with the annoying 1 second delay).
Now it happened what always happens with the ranger: Irenio’s team that obviously never touch the ranger and don’t have any clue how the class works, change their mechanics but because they don’t know how ranger works they don’t adjust the skill to ne new mechanics.

Same happened with Sword AA (apparently Kick in the AA was an small knock back instead a leap). They changed that but did not adjust the rest of the chain to work properly. And we already know what happened then, It’s all over the place.

@anduriell

The problem is that even if mobile – they’d still be unreliable because of CC and damage. Having them move around doesn’t solve a single problem.

I kept repeating the idea that Spirits should have their Actives and Spawns swapped.
~ You call out a spirit to perform an ability and keep providing passive benefits for 25 seconds (30 sec CD).

Give this a thought and you’ll realize how many problems it would solve. And I haven’t touched a single idea of mobility but solved the problem you tried to solve with mobility.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@anduriell

The problem is that even if mobile – they’d still be unreliable because of CC and damage. Having them move around doesn’t solve a single problem.

I kept repeating the idea that Spirits should have their Actives and Spawns swapped.
~ You call out a spirit to perform an ability and keep providing passive benefits for 25 seconds (30 sec CD).

Give this a thought and you’ll realize how many problems it would solve. And I haven’t touched a single idea of mobility but solved the problem you tried to solve with mobility.

+1 for this idea

OGDeadHead.8326:

Tragic Positive.9356:

@anduriell

The problem is that even if mobile – they’d still be unreliable because of CC and damage. Having them move around doesn’t solve a single problem.

I kept repeating the idea that Spirits should have their Actives and Spawns swapped.
~ You call out a spirit to perform an ability and keep providing passive benefits for 25 seconds (30 sec CD).

Give this a thought and you’ll realize how many problems it would solve. And I haven’t touched a single idea of mobility but solved the problem you tried to solve with mobility.

+1 for this idea

That’s an absurd nerf the spirits don’t need.
There should be some counter for the spirits, i would say AoE CC or focused is the right choice. You are supposed to be skilled enough to look if the spirit is around the place you need the effect trigger.

What you are asking to is to nerf the duration of the passive to half of it’s actual to have some braindead cast, you already have the glyphs to do that. Not my thing.

anduriell.6280:

That’s an absurd nerf the spirits don’t need.
There should be some counter for the spirits, i would say AoE CC or focused is the right choice. You are supposed to be skilled enough to look if the spirit is around the place you need the effect trigger.

What you are asking to is to nerf the duration of the passive to half of it’s actual to have some braindead cast, you already have the glyphs to do that. Not my thing.

Spirits currently live for ~73 seconds of a cooldown of 83 seconds. Or they live for ~13 seconds of a cooldown of 23.
…
Your “braindead cast” is absolutely right, while your perception of the change is completely out of the place. It’s not a nerf. Please, reconsider thinking the idea over. The counter to spirits would stay as they currently are but would improve their use. Enemies killing them soon would be rewarded more than before while ridiculous spawn>activating that punishes you for doing so would go away.

It’s all big stuff when it comes to enjoyment and QoL changes.

Tragic Positive.9356:

¡

Spirits currently live for ~73 seconds of a cooldown of 83 seconds. Or they live for ~13 seconds of a cooldown of 23.
…
Your “braindead cast” is absolutely right, while your perception of the change is completely out of the place. It’s not a nerf. Please, reconsider thinking the idea over. The counter to spirits would stay as they currently are but would improve their use. Enemies killing them soon would be rewarded more than before while ridiculous spawn>activating that punishes you for doing so would go away.

It’s all big stuff when it comes to enjoyment and QoL changes.

Spirits live for 60 seconds with a 20 seconds CD. No having in mind the lasting aura when they die that i think is like 10-13 seconds maybe?, just talking about pure numbers there.

That means for 60 seconds you may get the boon (maybe the 73 you say) and 20 seconds cooldown.

You are asking for this:
I cast the spirit and i have 25 seconds the passive effect. The center of the effect it’s the ranger.
The CD is 30 seconds and 2 choices:

• CD begins when the passive ends (what i understood) and that’s it’s a nerf.
• CD begins when the active is cast. Which in reality makes the CD 5 seconds because the passive effect last for 25. I like that .

Having a permafrost(damage), permafire(burn) and permastone(protection) spirit boon aura with no real counter… Wouldn’t the other classes cry for nerf? Wasn’t that the case with the other spirits before the nerf that destroyed them?
Anet has proven really harsh when nerfing the ranger… Are you sure you would like to play the russian roulette with this?

Also, and this is my personal preference, i like the petting zoo around me. but that’s just my taste.

I see 2 problems remaining after this “fix”
like a poster above said, activated abilities are for mobile spirits. as it stands spirits are fragile and immobile. so you tend to tuck them away in a corner or behind a wall/rock so they don’t get targeted. so… if they are hidden away from enemies what’s the point of the activated ability?

also 60 seconds life + 20 seconds cooldown. apart from bosses, when do fights take longer than 60 seconds.
reduce the length of the spirit to 30 seconds, increase the CD to 45 seconds but allow us to destroy the spirit on command to force the 45 seconds CD start

anduriell.6280:

Also, and this is my personal preference, i like the petting zoo around me. but that’s just my taste.

Then you like what partially made Anet nerf them. Having dozens of AI running around you will migate damage from other players.

There are two proper solutions to spirits in my opinion. Implement some sort of blink/teleport mechanic to both the summoning of the spirit and their active skills, or make them like whisps that surrounds the ranger without migating damage. Balance them accordingly.

Or just leave them as PvE buffs in their current state where they mostly work, just as long as they fix the other utility types.

anduriell.6280:

Tragic Positive.9356:

¡

Spirits currently live for ~73 seconds of a cooldown of 83 seconds. Or they live for ~13 seconds of a cooldown of 23.
…
Your “braindead cast” is absolutely right, while your perception of the change is completely out of the place. It’s not a nerf. Please, reconsider thinking the idea over. The counter to spirits would stay as they currently are but would improve their use. Enemies killing them soon would be rewarded more than before while ridiculous spawn>activating that punishes you for doing so would go away.

It’s all big stuff when it comes to enjoyment and QoL changes.

Spirits live for 60 seconds with a 20 seconds CD. No having in mind the lasting aura when they die that i think is like 10-13 seconds maybe?, just talking about pure numbers there.

That means for 60 seconds you may get the boon (maybe the 73 you say) and 20 seconds cooldown.

You are asking for this:
I cast the spirit and i have 25 seconds the passive effect. The center of the effect it’s the ranger.
The CD is 30 seconds and 2 choices:

• CD begins when the passive ends (what i understood) and that’s it’s a nerf.
• CD begins when the active is cast. Which in reality makes the CD 5 seconds because the passive effect last for 25. I like that .

Having a permafrost(damage), permafire(burn) and permastone(protection) spirit boon aura with no real counter… Wouldn’t the other classes cry for nerf? Wasn’t that the case with the other spirits before the nerf that destroyed them?
Anet has proven really harsh when nerfing the ranger… Are you sure you would like to play the russian roulette with this?

Also, and this is my personal preference, i like the petting zoo around me. but that’s just my taste.

You said they last for 60 seconds and have a CD of 20. Which means … 300% uptime. your numbers are horribly incorrect. The cooldown starts ticking after the spirit is killed. Not after the spirit is cast. So for the cooldown, you have to add the lifespan of the spirit.

I meant what I said.
Having a Spirit cast the ability and providing buffs for 25 seconds (not living for 25 seconds and providing buffs for 13 other seconds) with CD of 30.

Uptime of buffs will go down if they are killed early but the actives would remain user-friendly. That’s all there is to it.
I’m sorry but I don’t know which other way to explain it to you since you still seem to miss the idea.

I have a question that is related to this topic… I’m way out of the loop on “number stuff” because I care more about having “fun” now, but are Druid heal (or heals in general) prioritized by players FIRST as opposed to spread equally among players, pets, spirits and npcs?

Swagger.1459:

I have a question that is related to this topic… I’m way out of the loop on “number stuff” because I care more about having “fun” now, but are Druid heal (or heals in general) prioritized by players FIRST as opposed to spread equally among players, pets, spirits and npcs?

apparently yes, that’s what people are saying.

Justine.6351:

Swagger.1459:

I have a question that is related to this topic… I’m way out of the loop on “number stuff” because I care more about having “fun” now, but are Druid heal (or heals in general) prioritized by players FIRST as opposed to spread equally among players, pets, spirits and npcs?

apparently yes, that’s what people are saying.

Ok thanks. Gonna test it out today just to see with my own eyes.

Lazze.9870:

anduriell.6280:

Also, and this is my personal preference, i like the petting zoo around me. but that’s just my taste.

Then you like what partially made Anet nerf them. Having dozens of AI running around you will migate damage from other players.

Sorry i got lost there… You mean in PVP ? because the friendly don’t count in AoE as targets… Now if you mean as body count to mitigate enemy AoE that’s right. Better they than me. Same as Necro and that is good for a bunker build.

Anet nerf them because the cry from other players and because this subforum was full of other mains crying for nerfs. Not because they where that overpowered actually. Warriors banners are stronger and immortal. They never got that nerfed.

Now more techy. Our computer is the one that calculate the Ai for those objects and their paths. Because they only follow you there no actually an Ai but the pathing algorith and not even very extensive one. No no real taxing anywhere.
Anet nerfed the mobility because the Herald was coming. That’s all.

The choice to make Mobile spirits should return for those reasons:

• They allow the ranger/druid, a class that is supposed to combat within a very dynamic mobility to keep that philosophy. Right now they promote pewpew campers. And is a real reason why people don’t like rangers.
• They are or should be a kinda of passive defense. If the AoE damage is working like it should first is should target NpCs and then players. Inverted to how the boons should work. Thus there could be some counter to the OP fire ele and engie with those massive AoE areas.
• They allow you to have more builds variety. Right now there is only like one build.

Again, we (because now it’snot only me) want to have the choice.
So you want to have them banner like? don’t take the trait.

But i’m telling you, once the choice is there you will always go for the mobile version and you know that.

anduriell.6280:

Also, and this is my personal preference, i like the petting zoo around me. but that’s just my taste.

You make a thread to cry about bristleback being cleaved down too easy after I tell you don’t stand on them and you post here you like petting zoo following you around. What do you think is going to happen in the first 5 seconds of a fight if a pet with 16k hp and 3k armor “can’t survive”.

While I agree with the reasons (to an extent) on why Spirits Unbound should return, since Anet was against it, if it were to come back, it would come with a price.

Most likely outcome is the removal of the health buff from Nature’s Vengeance. Which, for better or worse, might be fair.

anduriell.6280:

Lazze.9870:

anduriell.6280:

Also, and this is my personal preference, i like the petting zoo around me. but that’s just my taste.

Then you like what partially made Anet nerf them. Having dozens of AI running around you will migate damage from other players.

Sorry i got lost there… You mean in PVP ?

Yes, I mean in PvP. Everything Anet does in terms of balancing is for PvP, more or less. Anet’s promised to make up for that by making them “good”. That’s where they failed. Then they partly made up for that by making them take less damage in PvE, but again, the spirits were always “okay” in PvE.

anduriell.6280:

But i’m telling you, once the choice is there you will always go for the mobile version and you know that.

No, I wouldn’t, the only exception would be open world PvE, and I don’t care about that for it to matter. In dungeons/fractals/raids I prefer them stationairy, and in PvP they would still suck if they followed you.

If they re-introduced spirits following you, it would just mean that they gave up on redesigning them as useful stationairy buffs with useable active skills. That’s not what I want.

That doesn’t mean I would mind if people got the option to have it, I just think they would be better of re-designing them. Make them into whisps that doesn’t count as AI, or make summoning and the active skills ground targeted while improving their baseline health etc etc. If done right, that would be better in my opinion (people are obviously allowed to disagree with that, again, that’s just how I’d prefer them).

Tragic Positive.9356:

@anduriell

The problem is that even if mobile – they’d still be unreliable because of CC and damage. Having them move around doesn’t solve a single problem.

I kept repeating the idea that Spirits should have their Actives and Spawns swapped.
~ You call out a spirit to perform an ability and keep providing passive benefits for 25 seconds (30 sec CD).

Give this a thought and you’ll realize how many problems it would solve. And I haven’t touched a single idea of mobility but solved the problem you tried to solve with mobility.

I made a suggestion along these lines a while ago.

If the active was removed from being a skill that can be cast while the spirit lives, and turned into an on-cast effect, then spirits would be far more usable IMO. They would essentially return to being GW1 spirits.

The active skill is half the problem with spirits (rather than an improvement over the old design) because it prevents the spirit going on recharge until death.

You’d cast a spirit, get the active effect on cast and also get the passive effect during the spirits life time. You’d keep the ability to get the active on-demand, but most importantly, spirits would go on cooldown instantly after being cast.

If spirits continued to live for 60 seconds, and the cooldowns remained at 20 seconds, then you could summon (and therefore ‘move’) a spirit three times over the course of the current lifetime, and get three casts of the active.

I assume that the old GW1 rule of having and old spirit destroyed by a new one (to prevent spirit spam) would be in place so there would be no overlapping coverage (shame because it would be great for Natures Vengeance), but you’d still get the best parts of mobile and immobile spirits at the same time.

It wouldn’t be as useful to have a recharge that’s longer than the lifespan, simply because then you lose the ‘mobile’ effect that comes with being able to resummon a spirit that’s already in use. Unless of course you reduce the duration even further. I suppose having a lifetime of 15s with a cooldown of 20s (traited to 16s) might work.

Kaz.5430:

snip

Yep, completely agree here.
The biggest issue currently is the absurd user-unfriendly design.

Adjusting the numbers is the least of an issue if the idea itself gets implemented. Anything balanced would work. I gave the increased cooldown as a compensation for less counter-play (since you wouldn’t be able to negate the active effect – but you’d be able to negate more of the passives than you currently can).