question raid healing druids
As someone that has raided since Spirit Vale opened, I’ve never understood the drive for Magi’s gear. You receive nearly non-stop heals so vitality isn’t a desired stat, and last I tested heals don’t crit so why precision?
Zealots is superior imo, and am able to raid heal fine in full Zealot’s with the latest changes.
Saints – Ranger / Vincent Nightmare – Thief
As someone that has raided since Spirit Vale opened, I’ve never understood the drive for Magi’s gear. You receive nearly non-stop heals so vitality isn’t a desired stat, and last I tested heals don’t crit so why precision?
Zealots is superior imo, and am able to raid heal fine in full Zealot’s with the latest changes.
again, i understand that using clerics and apothecary gives toughness and that can mess up the tank and aggro. Precision from magi’s can be used with the 25 stacks of might to deal at least some small good dmg via crits (only)..
Theres also shaman vit/condi dmg/healing stats that goes a bit better into condi dmg ranger but less healing power (again i dont know how much healing you really need in dungeons…but even so the numbers above show very little difference in healing power main and secondary stats)
It all points to zealots armor/weapon + magi’s trinkets as a combo stat that provides both good dmg and great healing at a cost of very small healing drop and 5k health…
Hi Vukorep. Good questions. I’ll answer them as I see it and from my point of view and experience, which is both pugging and raiding in guilds (not experienced and experienced groups), since the raids started.
In my oppinion it all comes down to whether you’re playing in an experienced group or not. If you’re playing in an unexperienced group, I’ll call that pugging for now, I’d say you’d better be safe then sorry, so I’d go for as much healing power as you can. Better to go for the kill then to go for a good time on the clock.
If you’re going with an experienced group, you can experiment and go for more damage output.
So, to answer your questions.
1) Pugging: Yes. Go for the kill, and don’t go for a good time on the clock. And a kill should be easily doable if you’re full magi and others know their stuff. Experienced: No.
2) No.
3) Pugging: Yes. Experienced groups: No.
4) No question here
You’re final question is a good one too. Because I do mix when I can.
I started making a full magi set, then a full berserker set, then a viper’s set. Not saying that is the ideal order, it’s how it went for me. Because of this, I did not make a zealot set, and when I’m playing with an experienced group and I’m the healer, I sometimes go magi with zerker trinkets mixed up (or full berserker, if that’s possible). That way I try to lean towards as much damage as possible while I also provide the necessary healing for the group. Going with these 3 sets, another plus is the full zerker set is nice for open world PvE, dungeoning, fractals, HoT events etc.
Imporant to note that there was a recent update for the druid considering healing/healling power, which makes it harder for raidgroups to go with 2 damage druids (i.e. berserker and viper’s) and have enough healing to keep everyone alive. This makes healing stat druids more popular again, allthough I believe I read very good groups can still pull it off without healing power druids.
I’m certain that people do mix gear, it’s just that full Magi gear is the safest healing set available due to the extra survivability and maximized healing without grabbing aggro. A set that is especially useful for learning groups and unstable/unorganized groups.
Zealot’s is a good compromise between Magi and Berserker. However, the differences are smaller when mixing the two sets to the point it doesn’t matter compared to a full set of Zealot or Magi.
It’s not a bad thing to mix gear stats, as some other Druids have mentioned using Zealot armor and weapons with Berserker trinkets or vice-versa. As long as it works, go with it.
Otherwise, you could pose the question of why don’t people go with full Zealot instead of mixing Magi and Zealot pieces. The damage remains the same post-patch while the healing has only been reduced by less than 10% of the pre-patch values.
PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
tnx for all the replies everyone.
Ive been talking with some guildies and other players and it seems people’s usual reaction is : magi’s has more healing so its much safer for pugs and new raiders.
Or just “magi has the most healing power and 0 toughness which is best for a healer”
But again…how much healing is actually needed? Even with pugs and new first time raiders?
I showed the numbers comparing a full healing power magi vs a “75%” zealots/magi’s gear set and the differences are very minimal… do those differences seriously impact raid groups so much (with new players) ?
Its like saying tanks in raid need to stack as much vit and toughness as possible…but instead we see chronotanks using commander and zerker gear….and commander toughness is even less than a 2ndary toughness in a 3 stat gear piece.
On top of that it doesnt even have vitality!
Necromancers and other condition dmg dealers have their discussions about sinister and viper stats. Some even being very precise on what piece of gear should be vipers and what should be sinister to min max their dps.
So clearly there is a bar set on when certain stat being “enough”.
So another question now…
I understand druid healers arent ment to deal dps…but lets say we pug with people that know their class and they understand other classes and they watched videos about the raid and learn quickly..
Knowing the above mentioned healing numbers,how much of a difference would a full magi’s druid healer have compared to the above mentioned weapon/armor zealot’s + magi’s trinkets?
But again…how much healing is actually needed? Even with pugs and new first time raiders?
I showed the numbers comparing a full healing power magi vs a “75%” zealots/magi’s gear set and the differences are very minimal… do those differences seriously impact raid groups so much (with new players) ?
So another question now…
I understand druid healers arent ment to deal dps…but lets say we pug with people that know their class and they understand other classes and they watched videos about the raid and learn quickly..Knowing the above mentioned healing numbers,how much of a difference would a full magi’s druid healer have compared to the above mentioned weapon/armor zealot’s + magi’s trinkets?
Here’s the gist for these questions.
1: As much healing as is required. This depends and varies group-by-group. A blanket response does not suffice in cases where you have no stable group members (frequently dealing with different people with varying experiences).
2: Don’t think about the numbers too much. What impacts raid groups the most is experience and being able to adapt. Extra healing can help a raid team more than the extremely low amount of extra damage in which we can personally contribute.
Damage is important, but making sure other classes that can (easily) out-damage our profession stay alive and receive buffs is more important and valuable. Gear-wise, this should be looked at on a group-by-group basis.
3: Not much, as in less than or around 5% difference, which varies further depending on rotation and setup such as switching between sword/warhorn and primarily camping staff.
In the specific situation you mentioned where party members know their classes, the mechanics, and can adapt to the party’s composition, you might as well use full Berserker unless you are inexperienced.
In which case, Magi or mix Magi and Zealot, because the last thing people want to do in scenarios like the above mentioned is revive the healer.
PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
(edited by Wondrouswall.7169)
Okay, interesting.
one final question tho.
low/no healing power zerker druid healers?
You do realize cosmic ray would heal for 330 health then right? Compared to a 1490-1647 i cant seem to understand how that would work…
Might as well have a herald spamming regeneration constantly then..
Then again i havent been raiding…
Im sure there are people out there that can 7 man the encounters but playing soo well to be able to finish the raids with a zerker druid healer that can burst everyone with a whooping 330 health is just too much for me.
Druids rarely, if ever, use Cosmic Ray in raids. Rejuvenating Tides and Lunar Impact are our primary tools as they both serve as a heal and additional utility.
Burst heal and CC with Lunar Impact and moderate heal-over-time with a water field and full Grace of the Land with Rejuvenating Tides. Seeds of Life is also sprinkled in for a small heal, condition cleanse, blind, and stack of Grace.
There are setups of full Berserker with Monk Runes and Rice Ball food for 50% outgoing healing on top of the PS Warrior minor trait that increases healing power of allies by 10 per Might stack they apply. A feature that’s overlooked on PS Warriors as they not only increase everyone’s damage, but also our healing.
Overall, a low healing Berserker Druid (assuming Monk and Rice Balls) comes in with 275 healing power, 525 with a PS Warrior at 25 might stacks, 345 base with full healing infusions and 595 with the PS Warrior buff.
It may not seem to be much, but 500+ Healing Power with +50% outgoing healing adds up and allows a Berserker Druid to be effective within an organized and experienced group.
PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
(edited by Wondrouswall.7169)
Druids rarely, if ever, use Cosmic Ray in raids. Rejuvenating Tides and Lunar Impact are our primary tools as they both serve as a heal and additional utility.
Burst heal and CC with Lunar Impact and moderate heal-over-time with a water field and full Grace of the Land with Rejuvenating Tides. Seeds of Life is also sprinkled in for a small heal, condition cleanse, blind, and stack of Grace.
There are setups of full Berserker with Monk Runes and Rice Ball food for 50% outgoing healing on top of the PS Warrior minor trait that increases healing power of allies by 10 per Might stack they apply. A feature that’s overlooked on PS Warriors as they not only increase everyone’s damage, but also our healing.
Overall, a low healing Berserker Druid (assuming Monk and Rice Balls) comes in with 275 healing power, 525 with a PS Warrior at 25 might stacks, 345 base with full healing infusions and 595 with the PS Warrior buff.
It may not seem to be much, but 500+ Healing Power with +50% outgoing healing adds up and allows a Berserker Druid to be effective within an organized and experienced group.
actually thats quite impressive.
with 550healing power and 50% outgoing healing:
-rejuvenating tides 1387
-lunar impact 3915
its not that far off from my initial zealot’s weapon/armor +magi trinkets (tho i did miss 10% from the trait, and i didn’t count food)
Well thanks for clearing everything up guys. I hope i can use this thread and show it to everyone who has any questions or is confused about the post patch healing power scaling and the " strength" of healing needed in various squad set ups.
In my normal monday group (fairly exp. group), we run 1 magi and 1 full dmg druid. This give us plenty of heal, making if safe so small mistakes are not noticed and just as importent GotL for all.
Why not zealot? well why use zealot? the extra dmg is minimal (REALLY minimal) and if your group need that extra dmg (and you are not doing a record run) then you need to bring them all into the training golem and learn rotations. The magi can however make you survive ressing the fool that went down in poison (extra hp giving you time to ress him) or something similar and therefore save the run.
All groups make mistakes and if you are not going for a record run, then getting the kill with 1 min left or 61 sec left is not really that importent. Wiping and having wasted 3-5 min due to some stupid mistake however..
So why not go 2 full magi?, well going from full magi to full dmg is a huge dps gain. So here its worth it (imo). And the second druid is not really there to heal, but mainly to apply GotL (and spotter, fury and spirit buffs). Thats only why a dmg druid normally run scholar runes (if power) and dmg food.
If you are in a really good group, run 2 full dmg. But imo its not worth it unless you are doing a record run
It’s worth noting that being is Zealot gear allows for slightly easier AF generation, since your heals are slightly smaller (but not detrimentally so), you get more chances to charge your astral force within that 10-second window.
Just swapping a few jewels for Berserker instead of full magi here solves the problem. Still not a reasoning why would Zealot be a real advantage.
It’s mainly an advantage for those who wish to take their Druid outside of Raids, too. Roaming around the open-world with Magi gear is painfully slow. At the same time, roaming around with Berzerkers kind of diminishes the recovering abilities Druid can offer.
Sure, one can run around in a mix of the two, but doing that when there is a single, uniform stat set is kind of counter-intuitive.
At the end of the day, having less health to rely on forces one to grow into a better player, and by extension — a better healer. If you find yourself getting downed due to your lack of health, then by all means — go Magi.
However, from my perspective, the extra health provided from Magi won’t likely be a deciding factor in whether one gets down or not. This is because if someone is not healing enough to keep their health capped, or consistently wanders into danger-zones relying on their gear to save them, then the different in survivability won’t mean much in the light of other issues.
I found this reason on other post, I just read. I think this is a good thought.