Guild Wars 2

Ranger is my main and favourite char. I play it from the very beginning, although since january i focus on wvw.

I have tried several possibilities, but mostly i use a 10/0/30/30/0 shortbow/heavy condition damage build, which works great against all foes that can be selected.
And here we come to thives.

I always had problems to defeat thiefs without traps. Lack of traps = no aoe’s. No aoe’s = impossible to face stealth.
Ok, i must have been doing something wrong, right?

So i made a thief out of pure curiosity, trained a bit in spvp, leveled it up while running with the zerg for a couple of days and here we go …

Ach, before i continue, let me confess – i am a horrible thief. I don’t use daggers, no backstabs, no ambushes, no cloak and dagger. I run a pistol/pistol & shortbow build.
Yea, i die a lot. From eles, from other thieves. From necros and mesmers of course.
But not from rangers. Strange, isn’t it?
The only ranger who killed me was a trapper. All other rangers, the ones who don’t have aoe’s, just don’t have the tools to kill a thief.

When i play ranger the way i like (no traps) i have no problems with most classes, except thieves. When i play thief i have problems with many classes, but rangers are easiest to face.
And, belive me – this is no false modesty – i really suck on thief.

I have 0 problems with thiefs.
Maybe you are doing something horribly wrong.
Try some defense, lighting reflexes etc. pp.

I only use powerbuilds, but against thies entangle is super fun because you can hit them stealthed ;-)

Aeri.5738:

I have 0 problems with thiefs.
Maybe you are doing something horribly wrong.
Try some defense, lighting reflexes etc. pp.

I only use powerbuilds, but against thies entangle is super fun because you can hit them stealthed ;-)

Entangle is a lottery. Most thieves will evade or get rid of the immobilize while in stealth. I have 26k hp, lots of armour etc. but … no wait, i tell you how i kill 95% of rangers as a thief and you tell me how to counter that as a ranger, ok?

1. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
2. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
3. Stealth with blinding powder
4. Sneak attack (=3-4k dmg +conditions)
5. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
6. Black powder (4 sec blindess)
7. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
8. Stealth with Hide in Shadows (if needed)
9. Sneak attack (= 3-4k dmg +conditions)
10. Unload ….
in most cases this is it. If needed repeat 8-10 once again.

Yes, a ranger can use lighting reflexes to run away, but he won’t kill me as long as i keep spamming black powder.
Really, i love playing ranger and hate thives, but no ranger even was close to winning when i used this tactic in 1vs1.

Axe 5 and not jsut standing there letting the theif hit you.
I have cripples, fear, protection and deal a lot damage myself.
you wont hit me with 4-5k since I have 1.8k toughness

If your ranger really just stands there, your are right – hes done (because hes AFK)

Sigils of geomancy are your best friend. A 3k damage aoe on weapon swap even with mediocre condition damage (~1000). You just have to swap often. I’d also suggest 30 in BM and to use bark skin against them in WS tree.. Pets lay waste to them if you can slow them down.

Bad thieves are extremely easy to kill, good thieves are impossible to kill unless you get lucky, basically that’s how it is for me, I don’t use traps though.

Aeri.5738:

you wont hit me with 4-5k since I have 1.8k toughness)

I have 26k hp and 2.3k toughness on my ranger and still experience backstabs for 8-9k again and again.

Aeri.5738:

If your ranger really just stands there, your are right – hes done (because hes AFK)

Noone never just stands there. Except the akitten’ers I guess, there’s still a lot for me to learn as a ranger, you may be right – that’s not the point.
Point is, that my nooby thief had no problems to kill almost every ranger i met with the tactic i described in my previous post. Running and evading helps against backstab-spamming dagger thieves, not against p/p thieves who can be immune to any attack almost all the time due to black powder.

I’m really curious – how would you fight me, if we met?

8-9k backstabs again and again with 2.3k toughness? sounds a little exaggerated to me but maybe you run into superthieves I still doubt those numbers though 5-6k sounds more likely with that amount of armor atleast judging from the ones I’ve run into.

I fought a p/p thief in wvw this week, was really annoying. I couldn’t dodge/evde all his shots. I threw traps at him, got him down to like 10% health but he managed to down me, and I got stealth stomped.

Thieves isnt a big problem for me atleast but I specced a lot into healing/regen. If they stealth Ill be back to almost full health when he pops out again. That said I have a hard time killing them because they simply stealth and get back out with full health or run away and after a while someone else comes by and they gang up on me.

I have a harder time with condition heavy and stun centric opponents, necros but specifically engineers but that said im a newbie and have just gotten into spvp

Blankverse.4927:

Aeri.5738:

I have 0 problems with thiefs.
Maybe you are doing something horribly wrong.
Try some defense, lighting reflexes etc. pp.

I only use powerbuilds, but against thies entangle is super fun because you can hit them stealthed ;-)

Entangle is a lottery. Most thieves will evade or get rid of the immobilize while in stealth. I have 26k hp, lots of armour etc. but … no wait, i tell you how i kill 95% of rangers as a thief and you tell me how to counter that as a ranger, ok?

1. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
2. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
3. Stealth with blinding powder
4. Sneak attack (=3-4k dmg +conditions)
5. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
6. Black powder (4 sec blindess)
7. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
8. Stealth with Hide in Shadows (if needed)
9. Sneak attack (= 3-4k dmg +conditions)
10. Unload ….
in most cases this is it. If needed repeat 8-10 once again.

Yes, a ranger can use lighting reflexes to run away, but he won’t kill me as long as i keep spamming black powder.
Really, i love playing ranger and hate thives, but no ranger even was close to winning when i used this tactic in 1vs1.

Rofl…..Were these rangers using bears by chance?

Thieves don’t really give me much trouble, most of the time in 1v1 I kill them or they run away. The other day I killed a commander who happened to be a thief in a 1v1, he tried to heartseeker spam me to death, was hilarious.

I’ve had no trouble against thieves with a power build and GS. However that build can’t beat guardians.

I’ve had no trouble against guardians with a condition bunker build, but get beaten by thieves.

Can’t have it all it seems!

This is Xsorus build I was trying out, I don’t have a problem with them at all. Other than 2 zerker theives…. that’s just annoying. This build played right can pretty much solo anything.

Edit: nevermind

Xsorus.2507:

Blankverse.4927:

Aeri.5738:

I have 0 problems with thiefs.
Maybe you are doing something horribly wrong.
Try some defense, lighting reflexes etc. pp.

I only use powerbuilds, but against thies entangle is super fun because you can hit them stealthed ;-)

Entangle is a lottery. Most thieves will evade or get rid of the immobilize while in stealth. I have 26k hp, lots of armour etc. but … no wait, i tell you how i kill 95% of rangers as a thief and you tell me how to counter that as a ranger, ok?

1. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
2. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
3. Stealth with blinding powder
4. Sneak attack (=3-4k dmg +conditions)
5. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
6. Black powder (4 sec blindess)
7. Unload (= 4-5k dmg)
8. Stealth with Hide in Shadows (if needed)
9. Sneak attack (= 3-4k dmg +conditions)
10. Unload ….
in most cases this is it. If needed repeat 8-10 once again.

Yes, a ranger can use lighting reflexes to run away, but he won’t kill me as long as i keep spamming black powder.
Really, i love playing ranger and hate thives, but no ranger even was close to winning when i used this tactic in 1vs1.

P.S. What ranger sits on black powder? Blind from projectiles is hardly frequent, and it’s the pet that will be chewing this thief’s face.

Rofl…..Were these rangers using bears by chance?

Not to mention black powder costs 6 initiative and unload costs additional initiative on top of it all.

Any ranger knows against a pistol variant thief to eat the autos and save the dodges for either unload, cnd or the sneak attack.

So after his little attempt at unload spam I can guarantee you after dodging the 2 unloads with prot on dodge to top it off, the thief’s offense will drop to zero for a good while.

Unload burst thieves only work on GC builds. Any bunker worth his salt will be able to weather the spike chain with a few well timed dodges and then the thief can’t do anything.

Zenith.7301:

Any ranger knows against a pistol variant thief to eat the autos and save the dodges for either unload, cnd or the sneak attack.

Not any ranger it seems. I’m afraid most of them don’t.

Zenith.7301:

So after his little attempt at unload spam I can guarantee you after dodging the 2 unloads with prot on dodge to top it off, the thief’s offense will drop to zero for a good while.

You don’t know much about thieves and their abilities to regen intiative fast with skills, signets and traits, do you?

Yes, after i use 2x unload i have only 2 intiative left. But … after i use stealth for 3 sec and sneak attack (only 1 intiative cost) my intiative bar is almost FULL again. So i can repeat this combo again and even add black powder when needed (i play 0/30/20/20/0, so i’m almost never run out of initiative when using p/p)

Blankverse.4927:

Zenith.7301:

Any ranger knows against a pistol variant thief to eat the autos and save the dodges for either unload, cnd or the sneak attack.

Not any ranger it seems. I’m afraid most of them don’t.

Zenith.7301:

So after his little attempt at unload spam I can guarantee you after dodging the 2 unloads with prot on dodge to top it off, the thief’s offense will drop to zero for a good while.

You don’t know much about thieves and their abilities to regen intiative fast with skills, signets and traits, do you?

Yes, after i use 2x unload i have only 2 intiative left. But … after i use stealth for 3 sec and sneak attack (only 1 intiative cost) my intiative bar is almost FULL again. So i can repeat this combo again and even add black powder when needed (i play 0/30/20/20/0, so i’m almost never run out of initiative when using p/p)

How would you stealth after 2unloads and 1black powder? I’ll admit freely I don’t know thieves well enough to have any kind of certainty but wouldn’t you have to regain initiative also for that and swap to bow? I’m far from certain but it sounds like you’d be out in the open longer than most thieves with this setup that is usually a dead thief to me.

Manekk.6981:

How would you stealth after 2unloads and 1black powder? I’ll admit freely I don’t know thieves well enough to have any kind of certainty but wouldn’t you have to regain initiative also for that and swap to bow? I’m far from certain but it sounds like you’d be out in the open longer than most thieves with this setup that is usually a dead thief to me.

2x unload = 10 initiative cost.
Now i use the Blinding powder utility skill (4 sec stealth, 0 initiative cost, 30 sec cooldown)
With my traits every stealth skill gives me +2 initiative, +2 intiative every 10 sec, +faster initiative regeneration while in stealth)
So after i leave stealth and use sneak attack (which costs only 1 ini) my initiative bar is usually 80-100%.

Don’t get me wrong, i don’t try to brag how good i am because i kill rangers. I die a lot from other classes, especially other thieves.

I made a thief with the thought: when i pvp lots of rangers and they kill me i will know what to do and how to improve my own tactics on my ranger.
It didn’t work. Maybe i didn’t met the REAL GOOD ONES. Sure. But so far every 1vs1 only confirmed, that even good rangers without aoe’s don’t have the tools to counter a thief who has tons of stealth AND blinding.

Blankverse.4927:

Manekk.6981:

How would you stealth after 2unloads and 1black powder? I’ll admit freely I don’t know thieves well enough to have any kind of certainty but wouldn’t you have to regain initiative also for that and swap to bow? I’m far from certain but it sounds like you’d be out in the open longer than most thieves with this setup that is usually a dead thief to me.

2x unload = 10 initiative cost.
Now i use the Blinding powder utility skill (4 sec stealth, 0 initiative cost, 30 sec cooldown)
With my traits every stealth skill gives me +2 initiative, +2 intiative every 10 sec, +faster initiative regeneration while in stealth)
So after i leave stealth and use sneak attack (which costs only 1 ini) my initiative bar is usually 80-100%.

Don’t get me wrong, i don’t try to brag how good i am because i kill rangers. I die a lot from other classes, especially other thieves.

I made a thief with the thought: when i pvp lots of rangers and they kill me i will know what to do and how to improve my own tactics on my ranger.
It didn’t work. Maybe i didn’t met the REAL GOOD ONES. Sure. But so far every 1vs1 only confirmed, that even good rangers without aoe’s don’t have the tools to counter a thief who has tons of stealth AND blinding.

Oh sorry you said blinding powder, I thought it said black powder and figured it seemed to be alot of init used for first those three and then clusterbomb ontop cause I couldn’t think how else it would stealth you, dyslexia or something…

Blankverse.4927:

You’re blinding the ranger, not the pet. A BM build would most likely kill the thief you’re talking about. Any P/P thief I’ve ran into was a joke. That’s probably the reason you don’t see many in wvw. (On my server at least)

I have tested several builds in 1vs1 against thiefs and my results are…
Nature’s Protection and Vigor works best against burst.
I can kill most thiefs with carrion gear and NOT having a single point in WS.

Tricare.2946:

Blankverse.4927:

You’re blinding the ranger, not the pet. A BM build would most likely kill the thief you’re talking about. Any P/P thief I’ve ran into was a joke. That’s probably the reason you don’t see many in wvw. (On my server at least)

On my server i didn’t see either.
To be honest, thats the main reason why i decided to play a p/p thief and not a copy&paste backstabbing d/d thief. That, and the fact, that i really hate any kind of melee combat.
I hate melee combat so much, that i’m sure, if i make a knight someday (which likely never happens), it will be a range knight xD

I’m not experienced enough on thief to tell long storys about aspects of several builds. But what i noticed so far, while using p/p, is:
It works fantastic in any 1vs1, which is actually what i’m looking for. However fighting against mulitple opponents is a problem (me jealously looks at the d/d thieves who are able to kill groups of 4-5 players xD) .

Tricare.2946:

Blankverse.4927:

You’re blinding the ranger, not the pet. A BM build would most likely kill the thief you’re talking about. Any P/P thief I’ve ran into was a joke. That’s probably the reason you don’t see many in wvw. (On my server at least)

Black powder does both I’m pretty sure, in melee you’re blinded by the field but his projectiles will blind too cause he’s standing in it, if that’s what you were responding to.

P/P has a 900 range if he stands in a BP all you need to do is a monarch’s leap and leap again to be out of range and force him to move. Your pet can still be chasing him while you’re outranging him.

And besides, he referenced a D/D thief, which is a completely inferior spec to D/P in every way.