Guild Wars 2

Barbed Precision on the necro
crit chance 33%
1 bleed (3seconds base)
all bleed durations 20% longer
adept Minor curses

vs the rangers

chance on crit 66%
1 bleed (3seconds base)
adept major skirmishing

do you think 66% chance is worth 1 less second -20% duration and a Adept slot competing with Trapper or only viable vigour to make Steady focus work.

I don’t think so necros have other ways to apply long term bleeds while us rangers have lots of quick ways to apply bleeds which don’t last any longer than 17seconds spike trap (if kitted for all out bleed durations even then in a Pvp situation we loose out on that 20% duration because our Weapons can’t be used to recover that Indifference)

there are clearly differences in the two traits and the class but i see its in-balanced to offer 1 second and 20% increased duration for a 33% crit chance while the necro already can sustain long duration bleeds plus can be applied rapidly if they Spec for shroud (YES omg a non-reaper issue but also a Ranger balance issue)

what do you pvp peeps think?

Sharpened edges is 3sec.

Don’t ask them to touch trait or it will get an icd and become near worthless. That 66% and no icd is what makes the necro and warrior traits look like trash.

Oh it also applies to pet.

Sorry I see why you say 2sec. I edited wiki.

Justine.6351:

Sharpened edges is 3sec.

Don’t ask them to touch trait or it will get an icd and become near worthless. That 66% and no icd is what makes the necro and warrior traits look like trash.

ahh no not asking for anything but a Increase to sharpen edges its a Adept that does on par with a Minor that also does not have a IDC .

i think for pvp purposes it should have the 20% duration a Adept should have this and a minor necro trait shouldn’t as they already sustain long bleeds.

its more about personal damage than shared with pet it may get more stacks but it still lacks in long term damage why do a lot of high spec rangers always use Quickness and beastmastery to make up for the personal damage and the stacked amounts to cover the short term damage.

(also ya the wiki for rangers are Vastly out of date too people need to update those)

one last thing is Condi duration boosts don’t effect pets so thats onther factor we are loosing out on just for that extra 33% crit chance on a adept trait.

Engies get the exact same trait mathematically.
Lower 33% proc chance, double the duration.

There’s nothing wrong with this trait. It actually is one of the reasons why Shortbow builds are viable for PvP since some runes and sigils go straight for bleed duration (not condi in general).

Tragic Positive.9356:

Engies get the exact same trait mathematically.
Lower 33% proc chance, double the duration.

There’s nothing wrong with this trait. It actually is one of the reasons why Shortbow builds are viable for PvP since some runes and sigils go straight for bleed duration (not condi in general).

I guess so but that doesn’t solve the long term damage for core ranger , as you pointed out Engi has double the duration for less crit chance that also means it could stack twice as much over a longer duration rather than a short burst – that requires two trait lines and quickness + vipers if your in pvp.

sharpen edges is kinda ok atm but it is lacking that tweek to bring it in line with all the combined effects.

The difference between 66% and 33% is effectively the difference between no CD and a 1sec CD. I tried the warrior and necro trait but I just can’t get their traits to go anywhere crazy.

Beyond sharpened edges there is hidden barbs which is stupidly strong for a master trait.
If you were to say remove pet part of sharpened edges in favor for +20% bleed duration I would go along with that but yeah anet is anet and I’m worried about that 1sec icd or 33% proc rate for own self centered reasons ;-)

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

I guess so but that doesn’t solve the long term damage for core ranger , as you pointed out Engi has double the duration for less crit chance that also means it could stack twice as much over a longer duration rather than a short burst – that requires two trait lines and quickness + vipers if your in pvp.

sharpen edges is kinda ok atm but it is lacking that tweek to bring it in line with all the combined effects.

I don’t really think so.
I can stack up to 64 bleed stacks on a perfect scenario on the PvP gollem.
And in PvP it’s much better to have frequent safe short-termed bleeds than a long lasting nuke that you can’t reapply and is on a roulette pattern.

Because you can cleanse the nuke. You can’t cleanse something that lasts for 3 seconds and keeps coming every other. That’s what you call a wasted cleanse.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

I guess so but that doesn’t solve the long term damage for core ranger , as you pointed out Engi has double the duration for less crit chance that also means it could stack twice as much over a longer duration rather than a short burst – that requires two trait lines and quickness + vipers if your in pvp.

sharpen edges is kinda ok atm but it is lacking that tweek to bring it in line with all the combined effects.

I don’t really think so.
I can stack up to 64 bleed stacks on a perfect scenario on the PvP gollem.
And in PvP it’s much better to have frequent safe short-termed bleeds than a long lasting nuke that you can’t reapply and is on a roulette pattern.

Because you can cleanse the nuke. You can’t cleanse something that lasts for 3 seconds and keeps coming every other. That’s what you call a wasted cleanse.

yep thats one route , but also going that route Maximised Bleed output including everything put into bleeds , Utility/wilderness/ ect ect thats a lot of investment for 64 short term bleeds that stack in a chain its not all 64 within 4seconds its spread over 5-8seconds maybe 10 if its a bit slow vs a Moving target , generaly i don’t test things vs Golems even the moving ones as they don’t defend or cleanse 50% way through the 3second condi burst your talking about.

this is a Straight up Sharpening edges needs a improvement for three reasons.

1. without large investments into bleeding effects you’ll be lucky to reach 8 stacks including pet
2. condi durations don’t effect pet but effects every other classes Mechanics
3. its a Adept trait that has Equal potentional with a Minor trait thats it.

Then I’ll rephrase it.

It’s around 800 DPS increase for Zerk builds in PvE.
It’s roughly 3K DPS increase for Condi builds in PvE.

For PvP it’s superior to low-% chance long-lasting fellow traits of other classes since those are easily countered by cleanse.

What’s wrong about it?

I’m not really sure whats wrong with it when you look at the other two traits it competes with.

vigor on evade
trap improvement

sharpened edges is clearly a trait you take and intentionally invest into bleeding/precision/dmg strikes, it is so potent it can be the heart of a build. A build defined by an adept trait lols. If you are unwilling to do this then ya maybe take the trap trait if you are condi or the vigor trait which is good for anyone.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

2. condi durations don’t effect pet but effects every other classes Mechanics

Try it out with a cat, Expertise Training and Companion’s Might, let me know your results. I think Sharpened Edges is fine. I’d love to see Hidden Barbs also apply to pets (which is doesn’t?).

Tragic Positive.9356:

Then I’ll rephrase it.

It’s around 800 DPS increase for Zerk builds in PvE.
It’s roughly 3K DPS increase for Condi builds in PvE.

For PvP it’s superior to low-% chance long-lasting fellow traits of other classes since those are easily countered by cleanse.

What’s wrong about it?

the duration of our bleeds are Reatlively short and yes longer bleeds can be cleansed but on the flip side the ranger class Has pushed into a form of Fast attacks / fast stacking short durations which can be avoided quite a lot through all the new sources of blind / blocks ect

if we had the 20% longer bleeds as standard or added to sharpen edges Bleed invested builds wouldn’t suffer so much in Pvp thanks to all those extra Sources of Damage migration and Condi clear.

Generaly it maybe 33% higher crit chance than the other traits of its kind but in the end the Stacks sharpen edges alone with the pets (no added traits from other lines)
does equal around the same amount on a shorter time frame even though its a adept trait which does not effect the duration of other bleed sources which forces the use of Vipers Amulet and or 20% bleed duration sigils while a necro does not since it can get 70% bleed durations just from Scepter and the GM in the curse trait line alone (70% duraiton from one trait line and what does the Core ranger have in terms of this having to take the beastmastery line just for quickness or having to use Quickness sigils ect , it sub tracks from the overall Damage potential of Other ranger weapons/ other bleed sources .

the longest Bleed source we have is Spike trap which Requires Trapper expertise and atleast a Vipers amulet or Light on your feet to be Viable (in duration terms) lacking the 20% duration is kinda Restrictive too.

its the same issue we had before HoT too much investment for Little return.

the only difference is the ramp up time difference between the two types , plus the 20% duration boost effects all other forms of bleed sources (including the Lacking Utility Sharpening stones which is onther problem that is effected by the lack of Duration increases we have on core ranger )
Light on your feet is a poor Mechanic for adding 10% duration while other classes have options for 20% perma or even 33% perma durations.

Well, the blind prevention and stuff goes double for 33% procs. You seem to be overseeing the fact that everything that goes against us goes against all traits of this matter.
If they have lower proc chance – it also means it will proc half less times then we do. So it’s not like they do magically more DPS. They do the exact same DPS thanks to the trait (or pretty close to it). We are the class designed to have as much low-hitting attacks as possible – which makes us excellent users of this.

And we instead of duration have increased damage, while burst > sustained in every and all situations (more bursty = better).

So nope, I don’t think Sharpened Edges changed would make any sense. If they touch it – it would get nerfed and may god save anyone who favored the change of this trait if that happens. LoyF being weak is a completely different matter.
Never touch anything that isn’t broken on this class – is the rule. ANet will break it for you if they do.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Well, the blind prevention and stuff goes double for 33% procs. You seem to be overseeing the fact that everything that goes against us goes against all traits of this matter.
If they have lower proc chance – it also means it will proc half less times then we do. So it’s not like they do magically more DPS. They do the exact same DPS thanks to the trait (or pretty close to it). We are the class designed to have as much low-hitting attacks as possible – which makes us excellent users of this.

And we instead of duration have increased damage, while burst > sustained in every and all situations (more bursty = better).

So nope, I don’t think Sharpened Edges changed would make any sense. If they touch it – it would get nerfed and may god save anyone who favored the change of this trait if that happens. LoyF being weak is a completely different matter.
Never touch anything that isn’t broken on this class – is the rule. ANet will break it for you if they do.

you can quote Anet all you like , also did i even mention the word “dps” this is mostly about Traits effecting Utilties or other Bleed sources for viable use , Spike trap with Trappers expertise and High investment is not even worth using.

i’ve pointed out Facts which effect different skills across the rangers Traits and Sharpening stones , i simply do not think its Fair that other classes have Condi duraiton boosts of 20%-33% as Minors or adpets while ours does not just because it Applies Faster and has even Stacks with Much Greater investment .

most other classes can Get easy access for Durations from one Trait line but for our Bleeds to even recover the lost stacks we much keep Using quickness/Fast hitting attacks to keep dps up or to even sustain bleeds for the duration of the fights , the only thing Sharpen edges is good for , is pretty much Burst rotations quickly stacking bleeds through Auto attacks .

any condi weapon we use Does not have a option for improved condi durations apart from Trappers expertise and light on your feet , two traits which are Highly Build defined and even taking trappers Removes Sharpening edges from use so how else do you think we could be brought up to par with other classes that do gain Benifts from these 20%-33% duration traits .

I want to see Rangers atleast have a foot in the door for Long term condi durations and not having simple access (1 trait to aleast give us the same options to increase durations Outside of Traps / trappers expertise)

the fact is Anet won’t Nurf anything on a recently Improved trait system the current Sharpen edges is the new Base line trait , and they have not even gotten around to Balancing those changes from Pre-HoT yet so.

so yes somthing needs to be done about the Core rangers Durations on condis , as Sharpening edges is Highly Restritive to Auto burst chains and the trait does not effect the durations of other bleeds.

if we also want Sharpening stones to improve This is one Change that will Help that Utility because Sharpening stones is usless at 45seconds without wilderness knowledge its only Just Viable not even Effective with 36seconds and a VERY short 10-11second of bleeding even when maxed out with mad king runes , the only other way your going to see longer bleeds than 11seconds is through the trappers expertise which makes Sharpen edges Nul and void for a option.

this is 1 trait that effects the construction of Builds through Choices and yes LoyF is a choice and in a build that focuses on condi durations or utility that is Trait restricted Loyf isn’t even worth taking because it wastes dodge rolls and is highly situational to the type of build used (if used with traps ok perfect Dodge roll>evade a large attack> combo chain with spike trap ect but for other build types that don’t use Trappers where is that Extra condi duration going to come from apart from investing Much more than other classes.

also Burst does not always mean Better , look at the Reapers counter to condis using its plauge signet only being able to Burst it (will surely lead to your own dead in a much quicker time , loading up a time bomb only to be killed before Verdent etching or a cooldown is ready)

i don’t want Ranger to be limited to having only a Burst>quickness play style those type builds go everything they needed with Druid ect but core Rangers need the condi durations added so builds that use Axe main hand / SB can benift from a 20% bleed duration added to sharpen edges this opens stronger options than just choose sharpen edges or Trappers expertise which nither Effect anything but traps and a chance for that one extra bleed , in the heat of combat that extra duration could be the topping just needed when you are forced to kite or Retreat in this current meta you can’t afford to pressure/burst every 15seconds on a rotation so the pressure between drops off Rapidly.

also i know how the Dam class works so get to the Proper Discussion.

you need to provide Why we don’t need it and Reasons of what would be Effected Rather than Quoting “Anet bleh bleh”

that trait is one of the traits we have right.
now please focus in the 600 other traits that are actually kinda useless.

Personally i think the trait is fine, we have alot of other traits that need to be changed before this one should even be looked at. If we need to get condition duration somewhere, we should get it from a rework of LoyF, but even then i don’t think that not having access to a condition duration is a problem. In my opinion the fact that we dont have access to duration increases for our condition is made up by the fact that we can buff the damage of our conditions through Hidden Barbs and Poison Master.

More burst bleed > Fewer longer bleeds

Burst bleeds beat out cleanse, atm cleanse is everywhere, so I’m happy with the way it works in current meta.

you do know the base mechanics of the trait are not changing , in the most simple words im going to type now

sharpen edges Added effect 20% to all Bleed durations No changes to the core trait , this will benifit any other source of bleeds , regardless of Burst > fewer longer bleeds the rangers Bleeds Are low duration base line anyway much lower that any other condi class and a 20% is pretty much going to add 05.1second onto sharpen edges and upto 4 seconds on any other bleeding source.

it improves sharpening stones use also.

and yes Other traits do need tweeks also , I main a Poison master druid and yes that is one reason why our core Durations are not too good but on the flip side poison master is again a Rotation+burst type of condi application which needs to hit via the pet .

the point of this thread as most of you have not really caught onto is without Hard investment! into Poison or Bleeds Never both at the same time unless you want 40%/50% on both conditions then to top off with loyf both condis are not going to be doing that much alone in what allison said in a condi clear everywhere but during those windows where you’ve skillfully shutdown cooldowns and you don’t have a burst ready the Dps drops Dramaticly without pet swaps or that required heavy investment.

“Burst bleeds beat out cleanse, atm cleanse is everywhere, so I’m happy with the way it works in current meta.” this sentence can be applied to every class which plays with a Burst condi play style so its not a reasonable response .

so far i’ve seen " im fine with its current set up" .

do you want to expand rangers combat styles out of Quickdraws and the Bursty set up which are pretty much dominating Ranger/druid meta.

this is one step out of the many that will be needed , in addition to other traits (and tweeking Clunky Trait mechanics.) to improve the Core ranger without relying on a Hunky addition of Cooldown reductions .

because of 1 reason and one only what is next After Quickdraw or Quicken zypher what could be Balanced without increasing the speed in which we attack.

any more reasonable reasons why we don’t need this addition to Sharpen edges?

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

“Burst bleeds beat out cleanse, atm cleanse is everywhere, so I’m happy with the way it works in current meta.” this sentence can be applied to every class which plays with a Burst condi play style so its not a reasonable response .

It’s more than a reasonable response.
You were the one to bring out “other classes do not go with burst bleeds but rather few bleeds with longer duration”.

Which now means you are either going against your own wording or you are swapping sides according to what suits you at the moment of argumentation.

What you are saying is that “your DPS drops when you stop attacking”.
Well guess what… Everyone’s DPS stops when they stop attacking… Whether you applied 1 bleed for 10 seconds or 10 bleeds for 1 second – the DPS is still the same. “DPS” is a statistical number (damage per second). Not a number that you can pick from anywhere on the graph and base balance around it.

I know what you are probably trying to say but you do not use maths or statistics to base upon. A Ranger can do 55 (Bristle) + 64 (LB+S/A rotation) hits in 33 seconds as a part of rotation. Which is over 100 hits in a perfect PvE scenario. On double the proc rate of the Necro. And we can have it traited for even more 33% damage (which is more DPS than 20% duration). When it comes to Conditions we have other ways to apply them. Powerful sun Spirit that goes with pretty low investment comes to mind.

So what’s wrong with being far superior to Necros in case you invest into it ? You keep saying the very same thing over and over again while never explaining why is it correct despite some of us saying why is that hypothesis wrong.

You are comparing meat with fruit without using a sheet of nutrition values. Regardless of what people say – nobody wants a game where everyone has the same mechanic. People want options to choose from while being able to bring similar results. So if the Ranger doesn’t have the very same stuff as Necro does but has something different in return that might even be better if invested into – that’s exactly how the game should work.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

“Burst bleeds beat out cleanse, atm cleanse is everywhere, so I’m happy with the way it works in current meta.” this sentence can be applied to every class which plays with a Burst condi play style so its not a reasonable response .

It’s more than a reasonable response.
You were the one to bring out “other classes do not go with burst bleeds but rather few bleeds with longer duration”.

Which now means you are either going against your own wording or you are swapping sides according to what suits you at the moment of argumentation.

What you are saying is that “your DPS drops when you stop attacking”.
Well guess what… Everyone’s DPS stops when they stop attacking… Whether you applied 1 bleed for 10 seconds or 10 bleeds for 1 second – the DPS is still the same. “DPS” is a statistical number (damage per second). Not a number that you can pick from anywhere on the graph and base balance around it.

I know what you are probably trying to say but you do not use maths or statistics to base upon. A Ranger can do 55 (Bristle) + 64 (LB+S/A rotation) hits in 33 seconds as a part of rotation. Which is over 100 hits in a perfect PvE scenario. On double the proc rate of the Necro. And we can have it traited for even more 33% damage (which is more DPS than 20% duration). When it comes to Conditions we have other ways to apply them. Powerful sun Spirit that goes with pretty low investment comes to mind.

So what’s wrong with being far superior to Necros in case you invest into it ? You keep saying the very same thing over and over again while never explaining why is it correct despite some of us saying why is that hypothesis wrong.

You are comparing meat with fruit without using a sheet of nutrition values. Regardless of what people say – nobody wants a game where everyone has the same mechanic. People want options to choose from while being able to bring similar results. So if the Ranger doesn’t have the very same stuff as Necro does but has something different in return that might even be better if invested into – that’s exactly how the game should work.

Im repeating my Opinion and not putting words into peoples mouths by Telling them what to think just like you have done with half of your comment.

you’ve provided your views and you are clearly Against Any thing that changes Sharpening edges to improve Functions or damage of external bleed sources (as i pointed out Sharpen edges is only on par with longer bleeds without the Speedy attacks its a " ok " trait to use) and thats my views on it.

about sharpening stones , i honestly don’t see any other way of improving this Utility outside of Reducing cooldown which is tied to Condi clears with wilderness ( makes its too much of a lich pin and verges on a requirement if the cooldown goes any lower than 30seconds)

second point about Sharpening stones ( increasing its stacks to compensate for its long 45second cooldown outside of wilderness is’t really a option unless the pet also gains Sharpening stones on use)

If you have any other ideas on how to create a synergy outside of Speedy/burstly attack rotations using the sharpen edges trait good , just don’t go telling me what im trying to say " i don’t do it to you and only ask for a Stronger reason why not , its not just about maths because things can be changed to allow a Wider Flexability to give a bit of slack for our Under-performing Utilities (in this case Sharpening stones) its a Butterfly Effect changing a end Result won’t benift the Core structure.

as before people gave reasons for Shouts to be updated or redesgined and the input we gave was read by the devs plus it may have taken them a while to do somthing about it but it was a Positive change, you can’t argue with that.

its good to get input and feedback without a Sly reply so be Civil just im doing , im only intrested in what people opinions are , Not the following replys without any Reasoning behind that decision , you Tragic have provided your Reasoning and opinion.

so if you have anymore input or feedback about Sharpening edges be my guest.

Sharpened Edges is the best bleed application trait in the game.

Imo, rapid re-application is far better than long duration for everything except nuking a boss and really anything will do that.

Tragic Positive.9356:

…Because you can cleanse the nuke. You can’t cleanse something that lasts for 3 seconds and keeps coming every other. That’s what you call a wasted cleanse.

Absolutely.

I don’t think it really needs any changes to the trait itself, tbh, but if it were not competing with Trapper’s Expertise, we could have a trap build perhaps….

Then I … I don’t really know what is the topic then.
They can’t buff a balanced trait because they’d definitely nerf us elsewhere. And we don’t want that, do we? I know it says positive in my name but I’m a strict realist. ANet has no idea when it comes to balance. Especially in PvP. And I don’t want Rangers get smacked again just to dance around a trait that is perfectly fine (out of boredom). They did a good job with shouts, yes. But they slacked it as you could see. Allies’ Aid is still bugged and Rune of Soldier still doesn’t affect allies (even if shouts do).

The trait is stronger than it’s Necro’s counterpart DPS-wise, and burst wise, so it’s better in all scenarios (which is why you have to invest for it). So what if necros have other options to apply longer bleeds? They have few ways to apply burning in return. Will you ask to give them burning too? And keep going until everyone has the same thing?
That doesn’t make sense.

33% chance and +20% duration
against
66% chance while ranger has more attacks per second (Shortbow has fast At Speed and we have a pet)
Ranger trait is still more than 75% more powerful. (100% increase in comparison through double the proc chance)

The moment you start talking about synergy you are talking about a completely different topic because you have to compare builds and not traits. Where high investment is completely legit because results are the only thing that matters. Because if you do invest into it – you again get more stuff from traits than Necros.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Then I … I don’t really know what is the topic then.
They can’t buff a balanced trait because they’d definitely nerf us elsewhere. And we don’t want that, do we? I know it says positive in my name but I’m a strict realist. ANet has no idea when it comes to balance. Especially in PvP. And I don’t want Rangers get smacked again just to dance around a trait that is perfectly fine (out of boredom). They did a good job with shouts, yes. But they slacked it as you could see. Allies’ Aid is still bugged and Rune of Soldier still doesn’t affect allies (even if shouts do).

The trait is stronger than it’s Necro’s counterpart DPS-wise, and burst wise, so it’s better in all scenarios (which is why you have to invest for it). So what if necros have other options to apply longer bleeds? They have few ways to apply burning in return. Will you ask to give them burning too? And keep going until everyone has the same thing?
That doesn’t make sense.

33% chance and +20% duration
against
66% chance while ranger has more attacks per second (Shortbow has fast At Speed and we have a pet)
Ranger trait is still more than 75% more powerful. (100% increase in comparison through double the proc chance)

The moment you start talking about synergy you are talking about a completely different topic because you have to compare builds and not traits. Where high investment is completely legit because results are the only thing that matters. Because if you do invest into it – you again get more stuff from traits than Necros.

Forget the flipping 66% crap , where else can we put the 20% duration bonus then and the how point about this thread is pretty much in even more simple words for you " what can we do for condis outside of Rapid attacks"

if you can think of a better place to put a Condi duration extention , because if you put it else where it just makes Sharpening edges stronger anyway so it may as well be placed onto the same trait or into hidden Barbs , ether way what supports our Durations/application without resorting to Rapid attacks.

people whine about Core ranger lacking somthing too much difference between that Rapid play style (for Rapid bleeds ect) and a support role (which druid does not use Sharpening edges and its better just to go down wilderness , there are still no options for Extending durations outside of traps ether)

in bag of traits we have , we need somewhere a Condi duration extending trait to support other sources , if you can’t think of a different response or a different place or place to put it , ranger builds outside of Burst/rapid application (aka beastmastery/wilderness(quicken zypher) or LB RF / AA sword many other Not as rapid weapons do suffer from that hence why Honed axes is Always Trumped by Zyphers speed Because of this Rapid application ranger meta we have right now .

if they added 20% bleed durations to honed axes that would a reasonable Response and a different idea.

no its the same topic because changing ONE trait Effects everything! so its not irrelevant.

Then which necro trait will get +33% bleeding damage?

You don’t need the +20% duration if you can get the same (or similar) result by other means. And this is about Damage / DPS.
If we are talking about burst (PvP only) then it’s clear that we don’t need the duration since we have something much better than 20% duration of Necro trait and you should be asking what are Necros going to get to make the trait on par with ours.

Bleed damage increased by 33% is much better than 20% bleed duration. Because we have more sources of bleeding than a Necro. For both PvP and PvE.
I still don’t know why do you want the Bleeding Duration so badly when you don’t need one. You have improved damage instead.

Why aren’t you asking for improved Steady Focus when it’s clearly the weakest trait of it’s kind in both uptime and design? Warriors have 99% uptime of their +10% modifier which makes dodging a part of combat. We have get our faces kicked because you’d loose it if you dodge.
Instead you are asking for improvement at places where we actually are superior for once in a life-time. And that doesn’t make sense.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Then which necro trait will get +33% bleeding damage?

You don’t need the +20% duration if you can get the same (or similar) result by other means. And this is about Damage / DPS.
If we are talking about burst (PvP only) then it’s clear that we don’t need the duration since we have something much better than 20% duration of Necro trait and you should be asking what are Necros going to get to make the trait on par with ours.

Bleed damage increased by 33% is much better than 20% bleed duration. Because we have more sources of bleeding than a Necro. For both PvP and PvE.
I still don’t know why do you want the Bleeding Duration so badly when you don’t need one. You have improved damage instead.

Why aren’t you asking for improved Steady Focus when it’s clearly the weakest trait of it’s kind in both uptime and design? Warriors have 99% uptime of their +10% modifier which makes dodging a part of combat. We have get our faces kicked because you’d loose it if you dodge.
Instead you are asking for improvement at places where we actually are superior for once in a life-time. And that doesn’t make sense.

1. steady focus can have a very high uptime with Traited spirits and pretty much perma vigour .
2. Striders defence + off-hand training Saves Endurance which allows a very high uptime on steady focus.

3. Necros have the option for Chill to do damage (don’t care if its the reaper as these Specialisations are just that they are not really ment to be a improvement just a different option) necros can do bleeds,torment,poison,weakness,chill,burning in most builds just like we can without torment and we swap torment for more bleeds so that Evens it out .

4. Core ranger clearly lacks damage still some of our Traits might or do need improving (just because we have 33% damage on bleeds it does not improve our Build Flexability between Utility skills , its just a straight damage boost choice that competes with decent Defence traits

one other problem with our trait lines , if that if we trait for steady focus you do need to trait for Evades which means no Hidden barbs or no Refined toxins , one trait effects 2-3 others due to Build requirements.

if that 20% was added somewhere it would mean we would not loose out on So many offensive Damage traits for Required Traits needed to make 1 trait work in a Viable fashion , which again Highly Limits build Flexability.

5. Necros can have Access to a boost 50% longer durations with curses and send back our " burst bleeds " back we may stack 20 bleeds in 5-6seconds with Blowing all cooldowns but it only takes 1second for a necro to throw that burst back at our faces so no Necro doesn’t need to be “quote Then which necro trait will get +33% bleeding damage?”

Im not aiming for A class balance between classes That was just a Example of how condi durations traits Effect Builds in the long run , just like Quickdraw+Zyphers speed Influences our choices and encourages us to use More Bursty weapons/builds.

what about Loyf? without needing to take a Krait runes for the extra Duration , if we had the extra duration we wouldn’t need and mad king runes become More Viable, or even a Different Amulet (rather than having to Run Vipers in pvp for every ranger Condi build , you could run Carrion/Rampager + mad king runes and it;ll work just as good as a Vipers Amulet in which has a higher Crit rate+power.

that would benifit a " rangers Bursty play style Just by improving Build Flexability"

i understand that " your view is every class should be different " but the clear logical view of all the trait in the game are just Worded differently between the different types of traits and every class but ranger has 1 or 2 Condi duration trait effects in addition to the traits core Effect that is perma or linked to a weapon , while we have Loyf at 10% on a dodge roll which sucks for build Flexability.

if loyf was 33% on dodge that makes more Sense a better reward for Correctly dodging and timing a attack.

its one step in the correct direction and as you’ve clearly pointed other traits do need some work so they are not so Restrictive or too En-twined with too many other traits which Steady focus requires to work .

also ps Steady focus is a easy fix , change it to While under the effects of Vigour damage increase 10% problem solved its not much of a issue or hard to fix.

and again if you can’t Suggest any decent reasons rather than just throwing illogical (not well thought through comment)

What I find illogical is that you are asking for a 20% buff for a type of gameplay that is meta in PvE and is one of the dominant 1v1 classes in PvP. On a trait that makes Longbow a viable Condi Weapon, Jesus Christ.
Yes, Condi Druid in PvP played right is a threat. If you play him right, it’s a worse threat for duels than a Necro. Why? We ignore blocks with 2 most important mechanics on a PvP build. Immobilize and CC.

On the other hand – a trait that ignores pet completely and goes with direct damage where we lack in both PvP and PvE is the one you say is fine because you can keep a very high uptime of it … By playing against training dummies where you don’t ever have to dodge.
Warrior has the trait active in 95/100 phases of the endurance bar and if they are about to go to 100% – they can dodge into rotation for increased damage.
Ranger has the trait active at 1/100 phases of the bar and he cannot prevent denying the bonus in case he has to dodge. Because if he has to – it takes 10 seconds to refill the bonus (7,5 with vigor). And he cannot undodge unlike warrior counterpart (dodge) to activate the trait again. Even the sigils that helped you do it were nerfed to the ground.

What I suggest is fixing Ranger Bugs, improving mathematically weak traits (from which LoyF is one) and addressing pet issues. That would solve 95% of problems a Ranger has. Heck – it would improve the whole game if the same thing got implemented at other classes where OP stuff got nerfed, weak stuff got buffed and bugged stuff got fixed.

That’s the main reason why your idea doesn’t make sense. Because we don’t need condition duration if we have the damage. And for PvP we have more than enough Conditions. For PvE we are meta on conditions.
Yet your core reasoning is that you want to get some. Because you are aware that our damage is fine, you are aware that we have our rightful places especially in PvE, and from all the broken stuff that needs to be addressed you chose Sharpened Edges instead?

Guardians have a hammer but I don’t want neither need one because I already have something else to deal damage/CC/stuff with…
Rangers need more direct damage. Not condition damage. In both PvP and PvE.

You two need to get a room.

Justine.6351:

You two need to get a room.

It’s called discussion.

this traits fine as is. if it ain’t broke, don’t ask anet to fix it or it will be broke.

Justine, marry me

Lol Justine you need to watch the BBC politics we are Very Civil compaired to that.

At : tragic > well if they do increased the Loyf condi durations bonus that’ll give Non-rapid Builds much better options for survial choices frees up the need for Trappers expertise and swapped in for Primal reflexes but obviously Trappers expertise will always Benift Traps more than Loyf which is a SB + condi utility trait (one example Trapper focused builds which lack that Meta Fast Application without quickdraw or Beastmastery)

I am honestly disappointed with how our Build setups have taken a turn pretty much all of them are focused around Massive cooldown reductions+ or Quickness just to Recover the lacking base damage of some weapon sets looking at Sb mostly.

@Zenos Osgorma
I completely agree that LoYF is in a need of improvement. No doubt about it. But Sharpened Edges is definitely fine as it is.

I actually think that Even marksmanship could get back the condition duration that we got Stealth-Nerfed. That way you could avoid overbuffing conditions for PvE’s current builds but you’d open more options for diversity.
Or maybe Refined Toxins? That trait is in a need of an improvement as well.

There’s technically X other options where to address the issue and I’d give my bets for improving LoYF.

Condi durations Added to Predators instinct (all durations +20%) cooldown then can stay 30seconds or just revamp/ revert.
i’d be happy with that gives way for a Predators focused build.

15seconds cooldown
2seconds of cripple on targets below 50%
conditions last 20% longer. (the condition duration effects both ranger+ pets maybe only bleeds,cripples,taunt excluding immobilse)

Yup, that suggestion sounds way more reasonable.

Even though I’d welcome some other changes and polish on PI in particular. 20% of all condi duration doesn’t sound like a balanced choice for adept trait. Maybe if we limited conditions to bleeding and cripple that might be fine.

I’d personally prefer PI some sort of active effect like a short (2sec?) burst of superspeed and applying 3 seconds of cripple when hitting enemy below 50% HP on a 15 sec CD.
I’d prefer bonus condi duration on passive minors that are desperately asking for a check-up in MM tree anyway.

But that’s just my preference. I wouldn’t mind it being addressed anywhere as long as it feels nice and responsive. I’d easily risk having a trait I never used broken rather than risk having destRoyed a trait I use 50% of my game-time.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Yup, that suggestion sounds way more reasonable.

Even though I’d welcome some other changes and polish on PI in particular. 20% of all condi duration doesn’t sound like a balanced choice for adept trait. Maybe if we limited conditions to bleeding and cripple that might be fine.

I’d personally prefer PI some sort of active effect like a short (2sec?) burst of superspeed and applying 3 seconds of cripple when hitting enemy below 50% HP on a 15 sec CD.
I’d prefer bonus condi duration on passive minors that are desperately asking for a check-up in MM tree anyway.

But that’s just my preference. I wouldn’t mind it being addressed anywhere as long as it feels nice and responsive. I’d easily risk having a trait I never used broken rather than risk having destRoyed a trait I use 50% of my game-time.

the opening stikes need to be combined then pet and ranger in one , moving the Opening stike Adept minor to master Minour and slotting in Predators instint to Adept minour.

leaving one open Adept trait slot a offensive defence MM trait could be placed here ,

Hunters Mark : your Longbows Huntershot Applies Reveled 3seconds and Huntershot’s swiftness effects allies. (12second cooldown)

In addition to bleeding the attacks should be unblockable. Ranger needs this a better way to counter blocks.