Guild Wars 2

ranger heal as one
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heal_as_One

warrior mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending

active condition remove is rangers greatest weakness and i know no ranger who uses “heal as one”. why dont anet makes it more like mendin from the warrior?

would be easy to implement and increase the survivability again condition dealers without being OP.

Healing spring removes conditions.

1 every second and you have to stay inside. staying around in pvp is not an option

but you have signet of renewal…

when i fight a ranger and play a condition dmg based class, the pet dies within seconds coz i know how the condition remove of ranger works. that leaves the ranger for 60 seconds vulnerable for conditions

hey Coarr,
I agree that the rangers lacks on demand condition remove.
The reason why Anet didn’t change this I believe to be that every class has one Healing skill that removes Conditions somehow.
For Guardian ist Signet of Resolve, for Warriors its Mending and for Rangers its Healing Spring. I am aware that this is a fickle argument since esp. Guardians have a ton of other active condition removes, but I think thats Anets logic.

For active Condition Remove:

• For one, we have Signet of Renewal. ok, that will probably kill your pet but you can also just swap it and the conditions will be gone. Ofc your pet will have to be alive (which as you stated it probably won’t be) and its on a 60sec cool down.
• I will make a few assumptions, correct me if I am wrong:
  But most condition rangers will use a Torch as one of their off hand weapons in conjunction with the ‘off-Hand Training’ Trait.
  so if you use a large Bonfire and try to trigger burning projectiles with it you will also encounter a reduction in mobility, why not use the same mechanic for healing spring? its not as easy as Mending, but if we wanted easy we would just roll a warrior, won’t we?
  → Hence I don’t see the ‘staying in one place’ to be so much of an issue.

• and lastly: Why is active condition removal so important for you? With Empathic Bond, Singet of Renewal, Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Soup we will hardly have any lingering conditions anyway?
  And in scenarios where you have to eat a lot of damage while under a condition (e.g. one of those 100000 seconds immobilises -.-) most condition rangers pack enough Regeneration to withstand it.

Signet of renewal is so close to being great yet almost always let’s you down in my experience, if you use it as an “oh kitten condition overload/immobilize button” your kitten ed pet is always out of range and it does nothing or if you swap pet to be sure it is in range, well then you know the pet will explode and you can’t swap it this needs to change it should either be a much larger range on it or infinite range and remove that it cleanses party the cd can also be reduced by atleast 15s in my opinion.

We could definetly use more active cleanses elsewhere too and something like the warrior trait http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mobile_Strikes definetly seems more appropriate for rangers to me than it ever did warriors.

Coarr.3286:

when i fight a ranger and play a condition dmg based class, the pet dies within seconds coz i know how the condition remove of ranger works. that leaves the ranger for 60 seconds vulnerable for conditions

This is really key. For all the other classes, utility skills are like innate abilities. Unless you’re stunned/dazed or knocked down or they’re on cooldown, they’re always available and always work. Ranger is the only class whose utilities (and certain traits) can be nullified by someone you’re fighting.

Utilities that augment the pet are fine (too many weakens the class, but a few are fine). Utilities that depend on the pet shouldn’t exist. The only skill which should depend on the pet is F2. If Anet wants to make lots of skills depend on the pet, they should rework the F1-F4 system to make each of those a different skill instead of just F2.

I suppose you could argue that your opponent choosing to target your pet first means you’re saved from taking damage. That would be true if there were no damage mitigation in the game. But good players dodge, good players don’t stand in red circles, good players pop utilities which nullify certain types of attacks. The pet does none of this. It just stands there and takes it.

Consequently once you kill one or both of the easy-to-kill pets, you’re left with a player character who has no F1-F4 skills, and frequently useless utility skills. Can you imagine the uproar if rangers got a skill which could for 60 seconds disable anyone’s F1-F4 skills, randomly disable 0-3 of their utilities, and randomly disable some traits? Yet this is an innate ability anyone fighting a ranger already has. Because Anet emphasized the pet too much in the ranger’s damage balancing, made too many utility skills and traits depend on the pet, and failed to give the pet a decent enough AI to survive even mundane things like red circles.

Solandri.9640:

good players dodge, good players don’t stand in red circles, good players pop utilities which nullify certain types of attacks. The pet does none of this. It just stands there and takes it.

and that is why it has a lot of hitpoints, and that is why you have 2 of them, that can be swapped instantly.

thomasgjkgwdn.4760:

Solandri.9640:

good players dodge, good players don’t stand in red circles, good players pop utilities which nullify certain types of attacks. The pet does none of this. It just stands there and takes it.

and that is why it has a lot of hitpoints, and that is why you have 2 of them, that can be swapped instantly.

Your point may be semi valid in PvE with predictable AoE, however in PvP/WvW the AoE flying around will nuke both of them in seconds.

I really wish that when you dodged your pet is invul/evading for the same ammount of time as yourself. If that was too “OP” then simply make the pet do 0 damage during the channel.

I’m already thinking of using sodier runes as all condition remove except healing spring is dependant on the pet (brown bear, empathic bond and signet of reneval).

I don’t know whether it is a bug or it is on purpose, but sometimes directly after petchange my pet is instantly dead. What does a pet help, when you can’t rely on the mechanics? Why must a passive pet still attack when it gets damaged? Sometimes there is hardly any way to keep the pet alive long enough to become useful. Why must the pet automatically plop out when I am getting attacked? Why can’t I decide when to use my pet for the extra 30% damage to become equal to my enemy and when to keep it safe until the situation is less dangerous so it doesn’t run through all red circles on the whole map? Simply put a cooldown on the “pull out”/“put in” button as it is on “pet swap” and let the player decide when to use the pet.

Since empathic bond needs a living pet the game became a lot more frustrating than before. My build was fully focused on condition removal and it worked well against all condi builds from any classes (mesmer, ranger, ingi). Maybe I did not win the fight, because I didn’t make enough damage. But I was no free kill! I could withdraw from the fight and show my enemy respect that he doesn’t run glasscanon.
Now I am loosing fights because of buggy petmechanics and stupid condition spamming. So much skill : (

i guess if you want to rely on the pet for an offload of conditions… it’s gotta be the brown bear. but i’m also guessing no one really wants to get caught with that out ;-D

Stigmatizing bears only hurt the class. You cant have it all passive and on demand condition clear and a damage build. You have to pick your poison. Only 3 classes in the game have shouts. So if you chose to not use the rune set that give condition clear on shouts that’s your choice but don’t act like you didn’t have the option.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Stigmatizing bears only hurt the class. You cant have it all passive and on demand condition clear and a damage build. You have to pick your poison. Only 3 classes in the game have shouts. So if you chose to not use the rune set that give condition clear on shouts that’s your choice but don’t act like you didn’t have the option.

is anyone running something like this?

Gorath.5076:

hey Coarr,
I agree that the rangers lacks on demand condition remove.
The reason why Anet didn’t change this I believe to be that every class has one Healing skill that removes Conditions somehow.
For Guardian ist Signet of Resolve, for Warriors its Mending and for Rangers its Healing Spring. I am aware that this is a fickle argument since esp. Guardians have a ton of other active condition removes, but I think thats Anets logic.

For active Condition Remove:

• For one, we have Signet of Renewal. ok, that will probably kill your pet but you can also just swap it and the conditions will be gone. Ofc your pet will have to be alive (which as you stated it probably won’t be) and its on a 60sec cool down.
• I will make a few assumptions, correct me if I am wrong:
  But most condition rangers will use a Torch as one of their off hand weapons in conjunction with the ‘off-Hand Training’ Trait.
  so if you use a large Bonfire and try to trigger burning projectiles with it you will also encounter a reduction in mobility, why not use the same mechanic for healing spring? its not as easy as Mending, but if we wanted easy we would just roll a warrior, won’t we?
  -> Hence I don’t see the ‘staying in one place’ to be so much of an issue.

• and lastly: Why is active condition removal so important for you? With Empathic Bond, Singet of Renewal, Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Soup we will hardly have any lingering conditions anyway?
  And in scenarios where you have to eat a lot of damage while under a condition (e.g. one of those 100000 seconds immobilises -.-) most condition rangers pack enough Regeneration to withstand it.

When have you ever seen a warrior even use mending?

I pull a lot of condition onto my dog/cat all the time.

Some of the arguments here are so stupid that I simply facepalm twice.

Pet out of ranger for signet or renewal is not the games fault. It is you who sends the pet to the enemy. Just pick a ranged pet if you have such big issues with it.

Staying around in healing spring is not the same as “standing still”. The healing spring is a large field that you can kite around in.

I am always amazed at how many people can’t swap and manage pets properly. You should start out with ranged pets and then work your way to the most damaging ones.

solrik.6028:

I pull a lot of condition onto my dog/cat all the time.

Some of the arguments here are so stupid that I simply facepalm twice.

Pet out of ranger for signet or renewal is not the games fault. It is you who sends the pet to the enemy. Just pick a ranged pet if you have such big issues with it.

Staying around in healing spring is not the same as “standing still”. The healing spring is a large field that you can kite around in.

I am always amazed at how many people can’t swap and manage pets properly. You should start out with ranged pets and then work your way to the most damaging ones.

It’s a simple argument and logical to want your utilities to always work not a stupid one, if even more funny you say this since it’s a complaint you had your self or maybe it’s only valid when you do it because you know how to manage and swap pets correctly right? so sick of this type of mentality here that everytime you don’t agree exactly with what someone says it’s because they can’t manage pets or fail at some other part of playing ranger, the warrior signet always works for a full cleanse why not the ranger’s? they have much better cleanse than us anyway, is it really so unconceivable to you the pets get out of range in a combat situation?

edit: my bad I mistook you for Solandri, everything else I stand by.

Manekk.6981:

solrik.6028:

I pull a lot of condition onto my dog/cat all the time.

Some of the arguments here are so stupid that I simply facepalm twice.

Pet out of ranger for signet or renewal is not the games fault. It is you who sends the pet to the enemy. Just pick a ranged pet if you have such big issues with it.

Staying around in healing spring is not the same as “standing still”. The healing spring is a large field that you can kite around in.

I am always amazed at how many people can’t swap and manage pets properly. You should start out with ranged pets and then work your way to the most damaging ones.

It’s a simple argument and logical to want your utilities to always work not a stupid one, if even more funny you say this since it’s a complaint you had your self or maybe it’s only valid when you do it because you know how to manage and swap pets correctly right? so sick of this type of mentality here that everytime you don’t agree exactly with what someone says it’s because they can’t manage pets or fail at some other part of playing ranger, the warrior signet always works for a full cleanse why not the ranger’s? they have much better cleanse than us anyway, is it really so unconceivable to you the pets get out of range in a combat situation?

edit: my bad I mistook you for Solandri, everything else I stand by.

No, I don’t. I forget to tell the pet to attack if I have set it on passive or forget to swap to get my vigor/might.

I didn’t say that I’m the best or anything close to it.

Ranged people tend to be more quishy. They are dead if they can’t use the pet right. Taking a spider or a devourer will allow them to keep it between themselves and the enemy player.

It is as simple as pressing F3, wait 1 or 2 seconds and then use the signet.

The difference between the warrior’s and the ranger’s signet is that the latter breaks stun and is instant. I do agree that it should be a much lower cooldown because the conditions are still existing on the pet, I.e are not actually ‘cleansed’

I agree with you man, but I’d rather have more trait-based cleansing options instad of tying it to utility/healing skills.
something like:
natures wrath: clean a condion when you gain fury

“It is as simple as pressing F3, wait 1 or 2 seconds and then use the signet.
The difference between the warrior’s and the ranger’s signet is that the latter breaks stun and is instant.”

Are you kidding , right… wait one or two seconds, and it is instant…

The pet is absolutely garbage, and any trait linked to the pet isn’t reliable… They are not useless every time just the time you REALLY need them…

You cannot tell me ONE single thing what other classes can’t do better (sorry 1500 range… so -1).

Solution: remove the whole bugged pet mechanic out of the game… make the pets on passive, and invulnerable. Only the F2 remains, and +20% damage to the ranger itself…

Problem solved…

Otherwise the ranger is a FUN class to play, but absolutely unreliable due to the kitten AI the kitten pathfinding, the pet’s nonexistant mitigation, slow reaction time and the fact that a pet cannot even hit a thing what moves faster then a continent.

solrik.6028:

I pull a lot of condition onto my dog/cat all the time.

Some of the arguments here are so stupid that I simply facepalm twice.

Pet out of ranger for signet or renewal is not the games fault. It is you who sends the pet to the enemy. Just pick a ranged pet if you have such big issues with it.

Staying around in healing spring is not the same as “standing still”. The healing spring is a large field that you can kite around in.

I am always amazed at how many people can’t swap and manage pets properly. You should start out with ranged pets and then work your way to the most damaging ones.

Ah, the ever delightful “There’s no problem, just L2P” post.
I’ve also heard placing 1k bleeds + poison and burning on a 14.5k life cat when in combat swap timer is 20 seconds is always a good way to go. Not like the pet is an important part of the class or anything.

Substance E.4852:

solrik.6028:

I pull a lot of condition onto my dog/cat all the time.

Some of the arguments here are so stupid that I simply facepalm twice.

Pet out of ranger for signet or renewal is not the games fault. It is you who sends the pet to the enemy. Just pick a ranged pet if you have such big issues with it.

Staying around in healing spring is not the same as “standing still”. The healing spring is a large field that you can kite around in.

I am always amazed at how many people can’t swap and manage pets properly. You should start out with ranged pets and then work your way to the most damaging ones.

Ah, the ever delightful “There’s no problem, just L2P” post.
I’ve also heard placing 1k bleeds + poison and burning on a 14.5k life cat when in combat swap timer is 20 seconds is always a good way to go. Not like the pet is an important part of the class or anything.

Swap timer is 16 in that case and the pet is receiving healing. There is also weakness, chill or cripple constantly applied to the enemy… You just seem to missed every other factor to make me more wrong.

Where did I say there is no problem? Is todays conversations about assuming that people are idiots? Should I have included every single problem the ranger and pet has so that you can’t counter with any of them?

The assumption that it’s bleeds, poison and burning that are transferred to the pet is very wrong. I only use the condi pull is I am condition bombed. Situations where 10 conditions, including immobilise, are applied are deadly if I don’t use the signet.

@Aggrostemma
The signet has a range of 600 and is an instant transfer. Tell me a situation where you are sniping from 1200+ range, need a condi cleanse because you have 6+ conditions on you and can’t swap the pet because this time the enemy decided to attack your pet instead of you.

solrik.6028:

@Aggrostemma
The signet has a range of 600 and is an instant transfer. Tell me a situation where you are sniping from 1200+ range, need a condi cleanse because you have 6+ conditions on you and can’t swap the pet because this time the enemy decided to attack your pet instead of you.

You just got done switching the pet and another player came up to you and started attacking you. If you have never encountered something like this feel free to try some WvW where the pet gets instagibed non-stop from absurd aoe spam.

Substance E.4852:

the pet gets instagibed non-stop from absurd aoe spam.

if you know the pet’s gonna die anyway, why not just keep it on passive? for a somewhat clumsy, but doable, condition cleanser? i daresay a brown bear by your side is gonna live long enough to be helpful that way.

Substance E.4852:

You just got done switching the pet and another player came up to you and started attacking you. If you have never encountered something like this feel free to try some WvW where the pet gets instagibed non-stop from absurd aoe spam.

Are you talking about zergs?

Pet will obviously die in a zerg if you make it attack something because the most stacked part of the zerg is the safest part, which your pet would be far away from.

If it’s roaming then you have to understand a few things.
Pet’s have a specific traitline for them. They can’t heal themselves, they can’t think about other people, they can only use their own skills and do as they are told.

You can, however, give them healing by traits, make them stronger by traits and use them very well.

Me and a mesmer were trying to take one of the camps and 4 invaders attacked us. We LoS’d the guards quickly to gather them in one place, I swapped to my drake and told it to attack the supervisor. Guards are stupid enough to focus the pet instead of the player. When my drake was low on health, I used troll unguent to keep it alive. I had only little missing health but the good thing with TU is that you can use it very early without wasting the majority of it.

Anyway, me and the zerker mesmer (I am tanky) easily survived and fought the 4 invaders for about 5 minutes. The downed system of this game pretty much ruins outnumbered fights.

Oh and the camp was fully upgraded.

Back to your example. If you are roaming, why would you switch the pet before the enemy came up to you? It’s an automatic win if the enemy focused your pet instead of you.

Also, AoE spam is not sustained. It happens once and then the player either waits for all of them to come off CD or uses them as they come off CD.

Edit:
Forgot to add that the ranger has huge amounts of soft CC. Cripple for example is something we have a lot of. It helps the pet hit the target. The pet is in most cases something people don’t care about so it’s basically free 1k-2k hits depending on your build.

Needed a lot, +1