Guild Wars 2

Ranger just needs tracking as a skill to reveal stealth.

This is a really bad idea, from a balance standpoint. Make one class HARD counter another class’s core mechanic?

This specialization is the very thing Anet wants to avoid. And as a Ranger, I would HATE this to be implemented because everyone would look at me and expect me to be a thief counter, when I can be carrying other (also very useful elites) like Vines and Rez Spirit.

@Duralla Umm…yikes.

1 & 2) I don’t have auto-attack on but I do have auto-targeting. It’s kitten near impossible to line up shots with a bow whilst juking and rolling, especially when there are a mass of people around. At least for me it is. I try to manually target as much as possible. But like I said, using the right mouse button to pan the camera around makes me switch targets like 50% of the time. I can’t figure out how to turn that off. I end up having to put the cursor at the top of the screen to rotate the camera so I don’t click over enemies, which slows everything down. And switching the auto-target on/off with every weapon swap isn’t feasible.
3) I usually never see him coming until I start getting hit, so I guess I’d say visible for a split second.

You actually use this jump-skirting technique as your go-to tactic against thieves? I don’t mean to sound obstinate, but that seems like a highly-specialized and unique way of dealing with stealth. Do you expect everyone to be using that?

So instead of fixing a broken class, give another broken class the means to specifically counter the first broken class so the 2nd broken class is even more pigeonholed? Waste of an elite slot.

Something like this should be a default pet AI routine or a minor trait selection and not an elite skill.

Ursan.7846:

This is a really bad idea, from a balance standpoint. Make one class HARD counter another class’s core mechanic?

This specialization is the very thing Anet wants to avoid. And as a Ranger, I would HATE this to be implemented because everyone would look at me and expect me to be a thief counter, when I can be carrying other (also very useful elites) like Vines and Rez Spirit.

Well you know what? Stealth hard counters EVERYTHING! Stealth hard counters vision, targeting, pet ai, all arrow attacks, and it hard counters any chance of survival when downed. Furthermore, if you think “Vines” aka Entangle is a good Elite you should probably not play Ranger. Entangle is hands down the worst ranger elite in the game. It would be just barely viable if it was on a 60 or 45 second cooldown, but right now it’s too kitten easy to get out of. If a Ranger tries to Entangle me I can easily dodge it because of the horrid animation and it lets me know he wasn’t smart enough to use RaO. So, I’ll be happy to knock him around with greatsword.

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Well you know what? Stealth hard counters EVERYTHING! Stealth hard counters vision, targeting, pet ai, all arrow attacks, and it hard counters any chance of survival when downed. Furthermore, if you think “Vines” aka Entangle is a good Elite you should probably not play Ranger. Entangle is hands down the worst ranger elite in the game. It would be just barely viable if it was on a 60 or 45 second cooldown, but right now it’s too kitten easy to get out of. If a Ranger tries to Entangle me I can easily dodge it because of the horrid animation and it lets me know he wasn’t smart enough to use RaO. So, I’ll be happy to knock him around with greatsword.

I’m not arguing that stealth is strong. But you’re missing the point of my post. By giving rangers, and only rangers, the ability to counter this ability, you’re giving rangers an incredibly specialized role (COUNTER THIEVES. And only thieves). And that pretty much flies in the face of Anet’s philosophy.

As for Entangle, I’m sure personally, you’ve dodged every single Entangle that’s been thrown at you. However, if you’re using personal experience, then I’ve hit many many Entangles on other players myself in WvW (I carry RaO in sPvP) by watching people use up dodge or catching people unaware. Of course it doesn’t work on every class (like mesmers can blink out of it) but it’s still an incredibly useful elite if used smartly against the correct matchup.

“barely viable with a 45-60s cd?” Good lord sir, it would be utterly broken. But anyways, that’s enough of a tangent. Entangle being good/not good (your opinion, I do respect it) still doesn’t change the fact that your suggestion isn’t very good and unlikely to be implemented.

i am still trying to really understand why people want a reveal skill anyways…id rather give it to warriors or some other class i dont want to be pigeonholed into using a useless ability. if they were to introduce stealth detection id prefer it the RIFT style where you could drink a potion and for its duration would show ALL players on your minimap, stealthed or not.

either way once they fix stealth rendering issues i really think that stealth will be very weak mechanic outside of escapes or initiating the fight on the thieves standards.

again as i mentioned earlier i HATE stealth and stealth mechanics but this game it barely bothers me, due to short durations, and they cannot cap a point while stealthed in spvp. i have taken a point by simply standing there and avoiding thieves bursts long enough for him to restealth and i cap by default…while i may end up losing sometimes i still would have capped the point for my team. or at least neutralized it.

again reveal would be a waste of a utility/elite/passive trait/class ability and pigeon hole ranger in to it being a mandatory (and still useless trait as opposed to maybe QZ or LR or even signet of renewal or traps) entangle, RAO, or even the horrible spirit of nature would be far better choice than that as an elite skill. and if they did add a crappy reveal rangers would be pressured by teams to take that over any other elite/utility.

if they added it as a trait then again it would take the place of one of our current traits , which would you give up ..piercng arrows…empathic bond, protection on dodge roll, how about the faster pet swapping, would you trade that for a reveal for stealth? i sure as heck would not. maybe you would give up bleeds on crit or faster pet movement. because you only have 70 poitns to spare, in your current build how would changing any of your current traits to add in reveal. where would they put it…nature magic? anyone running a spirit build would be screwed since they would have to drop almost mandatory spirits enhancers for a skill like that.

would adding a reveal really increase your survivibility? put in the wilderness tree and get rid of lowering sword cool downs or 2 seconds stealth on stun or empathic bond… maybe you dont like those traits maybe it doesnt affect you but you have to make a choice and maybe for your build that choice wouldnt be worth it. hell what if Anet put it as a grandmaster trait in the BM tree. how would that affect your power crit builds or your condition builds.

adding a new elite or utility that would do this would pretty much break any build i am currently using, all the points i have spent are very synergystic down to the elite skill i use.

again i feel that within the current meta stealth reveal is un-needed , fairly useless and would only serve to break any builds that are currently barely close to viable.

Obsidian.1328:

@Duralla Umm…yikes.

1 & 2) I don’t have auto-attack on but I do have auto-targeting. It’s kitten near impossible to line up shots with a bow whilst juking and rolling, especially when there are a mass of people around. At least for me it is. I try to manually target as much as possible. But like I said, using the right mouse button to pan the camera around makes me switch targets like 50% of the time. I can’t figure out how to turn that off. I end up having to put the cursor at the top of the screen to rotate the camera so I don’t click over enemies, which slows everything down. And switching the auto-target on/off with every weapon swap isn’t feasible.
3) I usually never see him coming until I start getting hit, so I guess I’d say visible for a split second.

You actually use this jump-skirting technique as your go-to tactic against thieves? I don’t mean to sound obstinate, but that seems like a highly-specialized and unique way of dealing with stealth. Do you expect everyone to be using that?

As long as i target the enemy i stick onto that target and am able to shoot them and it’ll auto aim towards them and ETC as long as they’re targeted, but as soon as i clear target i get to aim myself, and am able to use the leap trick, it’s actually not specialized at all for stealth. It works even better to gain distance when you can SEE the target, however it works just as well against stealthed!

I -personally- don’t need to know about thieves because, as i’ve said many a times, i have 3k armor and can just shrug off a significant amount of their burst, and then once i’m away of them they tend to not get that burst off again.

Lets just make it perfectly clear. These are just raw ideas. They do not in anyway shape the main ideas for what revealing stealthed enemies should really be. I agree that it becomes a problem when its an elite skill.

Maybe if it was tied to the Pet Mechanic, it would make more sense since canines have the acute sense of smell. Another suggestion perhaps for revealing stealthed enemies. Maybe some sort of passive ability. It can be broadened from there.

What is a Ranger if he can’t even track his own enemies? What kind of hunter class design did Anet have in mind that bares no tracking ability or ‘reveal’?

Poor design is poor. Infact terrible given the current state Rangers are in.

YumCHA.8706:

Lets just make it perfectly clear. These are just raw ideas. They do not in anyway shape the main ideas for what revealing stealthed enemies should really be. I agree that it becomes a problem when its an elite skill.

Maybe if it was tied to the Pet Mechanic, it would make more sense since canines have the acute sense of smell. Another suggestion perhaps for revealing stealthed enemies. Maybe some sort of passive ability. It can be broadened from there.

What is a Ranger if he can’t even track his own enemies? What kind of hunter class design did Anet have in mind that bares no tracking ability or ‘reveal’?

Poor design is poor. Infact terrible given the current state Rangers are in.

I think signet of the hunt should increase the damage of our pet and reveal all/some enemies within 900 yds of us upon activation that i think would be fair, it wouldn’t take up an elite skill, it’d fit the name of the signet, and we’d have tracking of some sort, it’d also make the signet not absolutely useless…

No.

Making the ranger’s defining role as a counter to thief just seems lazy

Ursan.7846:

This is a really bad idea, from a balance standpoint. Make one class HARD counter another class’s core mechanic?

This specialization is the very thing Anet wants to avoid. And as a Ranger, I would HATE this to be implemented because everyone would look at me and expect me to be a thief counter, when I can be carrying other (also very useful elites) like Vines and Rez Spirit.

Aww somone doesn’t want their thief to be killed =\ and thief needs a hard counter from at least 1 class…they burst down all classes like they nothing, and not every ranger will be running that elite, and the elite only works with thiefs it gives no benefit when attacking necros,eles,guardians, warriors, or engineers….its not going to ruin the game if 1 class can beat a class that beats all other classes.

Casey.9687:

Ursan.7846:

This is a really bad idea, from a balance standpoint. Make one class HARD counter another class’s core mechanic?

This specialization is the very thing Anet wants to avoid. And as a Ranger, I would HATE this to be implemented because everyone would look at me and expect me to be a thief counter, when I can be carrying other (also very useful elites) like Vines and Rez Spirit.

Aww somone doesn’t want their thief to be killed =\ and thief needs a hard counter from at least 1 class…they burst down all classes like they nothing, and not every ranger will be running that elite, and the elite only works with thiefs it gives no benefit when attacking necros,eles,guardians, warriors, or engineers….its not going to ruin the game if 1 class can beat a class that beats all other classes.

Like a previous poster, you seem to be missing my point entirely. I’m not arguing that stealth isn’t strong. The idea that one specific class hard counters the mechanics of another specific class goes against the philosophies of Anet (against serious specialization) and doesn’t really address the core problem, which is the OPness of stealth itself.

If you actually paid attention to this thread, you should note that I state pretty clearly I’m a ranger player, and I do not like this idea. If you’re going to try to sound patronizing, you should avoid making such uninformed assumptions.

i just don’t like the idea on an elite… Let thief traps and ranger traps prevent stealth/disable stealth skills for 2 seconds upon activation. the hard counter is just not to run into them, while still giving very situation based awareness.

this gives both thieves and and rangers more anti-thief, and increases build variability for both. if thieves want to counter thieves easier then they use a trap.

by doing this you’re not pigeon holding class meta and actually increases the efficiency of a trapper-style ranger, and the introduction of a new skill isn’t needed, as most rangers can generally fit room for a trap utility. it doesn’t force people out of invisibility unless the individual is stupid enough to activate the trap instead of run around it.

if the thief or mesmer is smart they’re just gonna teleport away anyway, wait for the 2 seconds to end and then come back to fight.

Jay

No.
Making the ranger’s defining role as a counter to thief just seems lazy

You want to know whats truly lazy?

Anet designing this horrid profession only to have it bug left, right and center, without a care at all to fixing them.

That’s Lazy.

YumCHA.8706:

Jay

No.
Making the ranger’s defining role as a counter to thief just seems lazy

You want to know whats truly lazy?

Anet designing this horrid profession only to have it bug left, right and center, without a care at all to fixing them.

That’s Lazy.

+1
Agreed. But it’d be lazier and just a “quick fix” to a mess that is this profession

Elite skill? Absolutely not, the elite skills are the only thing worth a kitten as a Ranger.

Ursan.7846:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Well you know what? Stealth hard counters EVERYTHING! Stealth hard counters vision, targeting, pet ai, all arrow attacks, and it hard counters any chance of survival when downed. Furthermore, if you think “Vines” aka Entangle is a good Elite you should probably not play Ranger. Entangle is hands down the worst ranger elite in the game. It would be just barely viable if it was on a 60 or 45 second cooldown, but right now it’s too kitten easy to get out of. If a Ranger tries to Entangle me I can easily dodge it because of the horrid animation and it lets me know he wasn’t smart enough to use RaO. So, I’ll be happy to knock him around with greatsword.

I’m not arguing that stealth is strong. But you’re missing the point of my post. By giving rangers, and only rangers, the ability to counter this ability, you’re giving rangers an incredibly specialized role (COUNTER THIEVES. And only thieves). And that pretty much flies in the face of Anet’s philosophy.

As for Entangle, I’m sure personally, you’ve dodged every single Entangle that’s been thrown at you. However, if you’re using personal experience, then I’ve hit many many Entangles on other players myself in WvW (I carry RaO in sPvP) by watching people use up dodge or catching people unaware. Of course it doesn’t work on every class (like mesmers can blink out of it) but it’s still an incredibly useful elite if used smartly against the correct matchup.

“barely viable with a 45-60s cd?” Good lord sir, it would be utterly broken. But anyways, that’s enough of a tangent. Entangle being good/not good (your opinion, I do respect it) still doesn’t change the fact that your suggestion isn’t very good and unlikely to be implemented.

Yeah, I should have mentioned I’m talking only spvp. Specifically hotjoin. I guess Entangle is great for WvWvW. Makes sense. It’s just too weak for spvp imo. Furthermore, Reveal would work with EVERYONE not just Thieves. Anyone regardless of profession will be revealed. Thief just happens to have a lot of stealth abilities. It would be a great skill to have when your in a hotjoin playing Ranger. The enemy is approaching Graveyard and suddenly 3 Thieves and 3 Warriors 1 Mesmer vanish into stealth. Ok, for just 20 lets have an even match…after that 20 seconds stealth it up, idc!

Durzlla.6295:

dot

Yes. Yes. Trapper Ranger with torch is fun, but we need an ability to counter stealth escape and initiate mechanisms with other builds, too.

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Furthermore, Reveal would work with EVERYONE not just Thieves. Anyone regardless of profession will be revealed.

Do you really think this ability will be useful against any other classes other than…Thieves? Do you seriously think this ability will be at all useful against a class like say Mesmer? Why would I slot in this ability over, say, RaO when facing a Mesmer?

And that is exactly the point I am trying to make here. A skill that’s only useful for one specific matchup is not a good idea.

Ursan.7846:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Furthermore, Reveal would work with EVERYONE not just Thieves. Anyone regardless of profession will be revealed.

Do you really think this ability will be useful against any other classes other than…Thieves? Do you seriously think this ability will be at all useful against a class like say Mesmer? Why would I slot in this ability over, say, RaO when facing a Mesmer?

And that is exactly the point I am trying to make here. A skill that’s only useful for one specific matchup is not a good idea.

I’ll say again the thief counters every other profession….i’ve seen thieves wipe out groups of 3-5 without missing a beat…and your saying because a ranger would be able to beat a thief is a bad idea? because 1 class shouldn’t primarily counter another? THE THIEF COUNTERS ALL….your arguements are invalid

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Durzlla.6295:

dot

Yes. Yes. Trapper Ranger with torch is fun, but we need an ability to counter stealth escape and initiate mechanisms with other builds, too.

I can escape with a great sword too… And a longbow…. And a shortbow…. And an axe (axe is a bit trickier)

I see the idea of reveal but if that would ruin other classes…. why nit the thought of giving us stealth also, we are supposed to be hunter/rangers, why not be able to sneak up on an enemy before it goes stealth on us.

If they add a reveal “mechanic” Thieves need there base health bumped from 10580 to 18580 like warriors/necromancers, they already have little access to healing abilities.

I don’t think one class should have an ability that negates the abilities of another class.

Rangers are a very good class, they have way better traits then thieves do and access to more then one kind of playstyle.

Daecollo.9578:

Rangers are a very good class, they have way better traits then thieves do and access to more then one kind of playstyle.

even if they have wide variety of playstyle and traits

rangers are still a good food to be devoured by our thieves,

and im still wondering why rangers in gw2 doesnt have a stealth remover, given that most of mmorpgs use ranger/hunter/marksman/gunslinger have stealth trackers

Jay.3284:

No.

Making the ranger’s defining role as a counter to thief just seems lazy

See here’s the problem. Players get up in arms when we talk about stealth. Well, Stealth Reveal works on everyone and just because Thieves have the most and best stealth abilities in the game doesn’t mean it’s a direct counter to them. I play Thief with zero stealth abilities it’s sort of a trapper hybrid Ranger build. Some Rangers, particularly great sword Rangers are a very good counter to my lazy Thief build because they have stability, but anyone without stability is kinda screwed because I have 3 different utilities that knock you down on a short c/d all which last no less than 3 seconds leaving people in very vulnerable positions on the battlefield is a really fun support build. Just running into a fight and placing traps where a D/D ele is going to ride the lightning and laugh your kittens off when your whole team jumps on him. It reminds me of playing cond. trap Ranger except you have all tons of mobility and no to mention Cluster Bomb >__>.

Ursan.7846:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Furthermore, Reveal would work with EVERYONE not just Thieves. Anyone regardless of profession will be revealed.

Do you really think this ability will be useful against any other classes other than…Thieves? Do you seriously think this ability will be at all useful against a class like say Mesmer? Why would I slot in this ability over, say, RaO when facing a Mesmer?

And that is exactly the point I am trying to make here. A skill that’s only useful for one specific matchup is not a good idea.

Mesmers can stealth themselves and their team easily, Engineers have a chance to stealth, and Rangers have a short gimmicky stealth via Siamoth. So, if a Ranger could reveal all stealthed players to nearby teammates it would be a nice thing to know where the hundred blade warrior and his teammates just went. And yes it would be helpful when say a 3 Thieves are traveling with just about every game thus granting stealth to allies with Smoke/Deception and there’s a sneaky Mesmer in every 10v10, so on top of random Guardians and Rangers getting stealth in fights they can all go back into stealth whenever the Mesmer wants. It doesn’t need to be an Elite, and a lot of people want traps to reveal stealth.

Psychrome.9281:

again i feel that within the current meta stealth reveal is un-needed , fairly useless and would only serve to break any builds that are currently barely close to viable.

On the topic of builds, CnD/Steal/Backstab stagnates build variety by which a player enters stealth and downs anyone in a matter of seconds goes back to stealth and finishes. Just that single combo is the reason why professions are forced to bunker because their burst can’t compete.

MajorLag.9518:

I see the idea of reveal but if that would ruin other classes…. why nit the thought of giving us stealth also, we are supposed to be hunter/rangers, why not be able to sneak up on an enemy before it goes stealth on us.

There’s plenty of opportunity for a Ranger to stealth just look for combo fields left by pistol thieves or l2use Siamoth. Not to mention… also use Hide in Plain Sight and hell why not Runes of Infiltration.

Daecollo.9578:

If they add a reveal “mechanic” Thieves need there base health bumped from 10580 to 18580 like warriors/necromancers, they already have little access to healing abilities.

I don’t think one class should have an ability that negates the abilities of another class.

Rangers are a very good class, they have way better traits then thieves do and access to more then one kind of playstyle.

Really? What part of “Withdraw” or “Hide in Shadows” or “Signet of Malice” “Shadow Refuge” not access to healing abilities? We have cond Thieves with Caltrops and Shamans that heal with every attack and go into stealth while the conditions just stack up. Thieves absolutely do not need a base hp increase if stealth reveal was introduced to spvp.

YumCHA.8706:

Lets just make it perfectly clear. These are just raw ideas. They do not in anyway shape the main ideas for what revealing stealthed enemies should really be. I agree that it becomes a problem when its an elite skill.

Maybe if it was tied to the Pet Mechanic, it would make more sense since canines have the acute sense of smell. Another suggestion perhaps for revealing stealthed enemies. Maybe some sort of passive ability. It can be broadened from there.

What is a Ranger if he can’t even track his own enemies? What kind of hunter class design did Anet have in mind that bares no tracking ability or ‘reveal’?

Poor design is poor. Infact terrible given the current state Rangers are in.

We are the most pigeonholed class in the game. All Rangers are indeed forced to use pets any time they are in combat or take falling damage. That’s a huge mobility and general player happiness setback. Rangers will always be pigeonholed via Bad Updates, Poor Traits/Utilities, Pet AI Mechanics, and that means using a ranged weapon. Idk about you, but I’m tired of seeing “Obstructed” when my arrows are traveling through people. As if the animations and attack speed aren’t strange enough for all bows in every profession to kinda piss me off.

all I see is people going “OH NOES!1 somebody proposing something that would possibly kill me once a match. I must protest that my class would be completely unplayable if it were to happen.”

Imagine GW2 without any stealth skills, Remove it from the game coding make the thief class the assassin class in GW1. You’d still have a role, you’d just have to change your play style. You would lose the ability to start a fight, realize you’re not going to win, and run away without dieing.

All we’re asking for, is for a skill that diminishes your ability to run away mid combat, and maybe the lucky/timed use that catches you before you hit someone. We’re not asking for the ability to ALWAYS see stealthed opponents, just something to let us maintain combat or an activated ability (on a shortish duration) to let us see you after you run away (and forfeited the fight in my book)

All i know is that if this were added it would be my last priority when choosing an ability. stealth is not that useful and only with gimmicks like backstab builds or the extremely annoying “permastealth” builds. the permastealth builds are really jsut annoying…they cna hardly cap points and the fights take forever essentially removing the burst that thieves claim is important . the backstab buids have been steadily toned down each patch and people are still complaining

im a ranger and i swear this is NOT needed. i personally feel that again stealth should be removed form MMOS entirely, but you do not ned a reveal skill in this game. and i will make a point to mention this isn every “stealth reveal” thread that gets created.

its a waste of time energy on a skill that once they made it, people would still not use it and basically gie theves a way to counter anyoen saying they are OP.

Ranger: OMG you jsut hit me for 10k in one shot!! WTF OP.
Thief: You have reveal…
Ranger: but i dont use it since i prefer an ability that actually improves my damage.
Thief: should have taken reveal.

please do not create this utility /elite skill

Hello all ,
Guys…..really!I read some opinions about Elite skill 3-5sec use and 2mins CD….and similar comments.That’s by far useless…..what to do an elite skill or even a skill like that?
In my opinion, all classes should have “A” defence against stealth….some more,some less, according the profession.Reveal stealth OR avoid stealth should somehow be part of some weapon skills ,utility skills or elite skills.Not to dedicate an utility or elite skill just to reveal someone…..This is not game breaking @ all for thiefs…..they still do insane dmg, teleport and can range…..So its mandatory to be a defence against stealth…..An example….healing spring reveal stealth for 8secs @1500 range ,poison: prevent from going invincible and many more.

Well, if Reveal is put into the game, Thieves need the ability to completely “steal” other classes F1 Abilities.

Stealing from a ranger should steal his animal and it should go against the ranger.

Stealing from a necromancer should steal his death shroud, giving the thief an extra health bar while making his daggers shoot projectiles and his other abilities getting cool effects.

Stealing from an Ele should steal his current attunement, for example stealing water makes thieves attacks heal him and cure conditions.

Stealth isn’t an F1 skill though, Steal is. Stealth is just a normal thief utility skill(with traits) that is used so much it’s kind of become the hallmark of that class. So something like Reveal wouldn’t be taking away a Thief’s F1 skill.

Stealth is just stupid right now with no counter, anyone that denies it has never seen it in action, or uses it and wants to stay god like.

Consider the insane damage that class can pull of as well, even if that is a different build. it’s still in need of a counter.

Obsidian.1328:

Stealth isn’t an F1 skill though, Steal is. Stealth is just a normal thief utility skill(with traits) that is used so much it’s kind of become the hallmark of that class. So something like Reveal wouldn’t be taking away a Thief’s F1 skill.

Steal can also stealth you, so it is a stealth skill.

I support the thought of either a canine having their f2 skill detect stealth for a certain amount of time. 6 seconds? Or having the pet skill “guard” reveal stealth for however long that lasts. (How long is that?/what is the area of effect)

Reveal is stupid. Why have an elite skill dedicated only to counter thieves. No one would use it. Please stop thinking Rangers are Hunters from WoW.

The Thief should have an ability on there F2 that drops pepper on the ground, making them unable to smell the thief and if he sniffs it he is stunned for 3 minutes and cannot assist the ranger.

Durzlla.6295:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Durzlla.6295:

dot

Yes. Yes. Trapper Ranger with torch is fun, but we need an ability to counter stealth escape and initiate mechanisms with other builds, too.

I can escape with a great sword too… And a longbow…. And a shortbow…. And an axe (axe is a bit trickier)

Neat. Not the Ranger’s escape…The Thief and Mesmer stealth escape/initiate we need a way to counter it. I can use all the weapons too, bud. We’re here to talk about how they might implement a skill like Reveal.

Fomby.4295:

I support the thought of either a canine having their f2 skill detect stealth for a certain amount of time. 6 seconds? Or having the pet skill “guard” reveal stealth for however long that lasts. (How long is that?/what is the area of effect)

I’m against all npc tracking abilities because pets already “track” players that aren’t in stealth and having an npc that basically knows where everyone is would be sorta unfair. It should be up to the players themselves to find stealthed opponents via a new signet, trait, or weapon skill. I know in other games like LoL players can’t stealth when they take damage or if they have a condition damage like bleed. Well, most everyone has conditions so maybe that would be the best route. Also, wards. Maybe implementing a new utility skill that allows you to place a ward that reveals stealth and is ground targetable like an Engineer Turret. Hello, Spirit of Vision.

YumCHA.8706:

So this is about Rangers having the ability to ‘reveal’ stealthed enemies? I’ve already wasted my words in another useless thread some weeks ago about the same suggestion but people defended against it as a bad decision to give Rangers some sort of tracking ability for stupid reasons.

Mostly because they implicated that it might become too overpowered and misused in the PvP environment. Not to mention thiefs aren’t the only profession that have the ability to stealth. I do believe mesmers have something similar.

Imagine the QQ threads placed upon Rangers when we actually have a tracking skill that reveals stealthed enemies in an instant. They would be calling for nerfs 24/7.

I really just don’t understand why Anet designed a hunter style profession that has no ability to track stealthed enemies AT ALL. What could possibly have been in their minds? I mean, isn’t this class called a Ranger? Seriously.

TL;DR
Stealth is overpowered and needs a counter-offensive like oh I don’t know…. a tracking skill?

Perfect.

But I disagree for the one elite its a waste of time and damage.

Nice try. Let’s say…give thieves warrior’s base hp pool and then create this skill. Fair enough?

Fomby.4295:

I support the thought of either a canine having their f2 skill detect stealth for a certain amount of time. 6 seconds? Or having the pet skill “guard” reveal stealth for however long that lasts. (How long is that?/what is the area of effect)

Then people would be forced to use canines. If they put a skill like that in the game, it should be passive in the all of the pet’s AI routine so you don’t have to pick it or trait for it. This class is broken enough as it is without being pigeoholed.

If the ranger has the thief on target and sends the pet out to intercept then the pet should track the thief even when he stealths. But if the thief is not being targeted prior the stealth, then pets shouldn’t be able to track him. People make it sound like we should get some kind of radar like skill to reveal all stealthed targets. I’m against that. It should be single target only and you have to be aware of the target as the ranger to track. Shouldn’t be a skill to spam like you’re the dolphin in FOTM.

Maybe depending on the pet, certain pets could track for longer, like canine having the longest duration while things like drakes that don’t really sniff have only 1.5 seconds of track time.

Yes ofc, Thief has better melee burst than warrior, better range than ranger, best escape mechanisms in game why not give to thiefs warrior hp pool to make the pie complete….Ppl who already have an experience with mmorpg gave some nice thoughts and feedback about stealth.Stealth should have a counter by all profs , more or less.

seems most people agree that making it an Elite would be underpowered. And the thieves are still crying… Liked the idea about changing Guard to detect stealth, maybe shorten the duration on it tho… 5 mins is quite a while (15 second cooldown)

For an elite version: Marking shot (flare? but sounds more like an engi ability) 15 second debuff/condition that the target cannot enter stealth, and has +5% chance to be crit. 2 min cooldown.

Signet: (name)- passive: your pet can detect its current target in stealth and attack. Active: Send out waves to detect stealthed targets in a 400m(too short?) range. 1 min cooldown

Trait: Keen Eye (dont know if this name is in use) skirmishing 30 points: You do not lose targets when they stealth. (can keep attacking)

So the other day my Ranger was in WvW. Got a couple kills, heck even soloed a mesmer. However that mesmer had a buddy. To no surprise it was a Thief. An Asura Thief no less.

Now this dead mesmer was out in the open waiting to be ressed. This thief thinking he could res this dead mesmer undetected well… that he did. He uses stealth to ‘invisibly’ res the dead mesmer while just 5 metres away was I spamming my AoEs near said dead mesmer to reveal this thief with no avail. Not even traps could ‘un-stealth’ this witty asura thief.

After a minute of Ressing, the dead mesmer gets up and runs. I try to pew pew the mesmer down but guess what…. BAM thief comes out spams kitten at me. I use my dodges but that proved useless. I tried to use my traps but that did nothing. My pet keeps bugging and cancelling the F2 ability. What am I left with? My weapon which were LB/SB.

And by all this time, the mesmer would have realized im in a crappy state, I then get duo’d and whoopdy doo Downed I go. The best part is the Thief uses stealth to stomp me in the end. Brilliant Finish.

Now the main point was that thief, WITH NO STEALTH COUNTER, was able to make a big difference in a PvP scenario, just by stealth ressing his friend.

Mind you I wasn’t alone at the time. Others knew that thief was there ressing his friend but whether they were too stupid to do anything about it, I don’t know. But as Observant as I am, I realized what was happening in that situation.

If I had some sort of stealth counter in this situation, I could of prevented the thief from ressing his friend mesmer. But no.

So you tell me what logical reason that a thief should not have a counter against stealth? That a thief should have this one unique skill which has a BIG difference in a PvP situation.

Bottom line is stealth is exploited. Yes. Exploited. And it is this very reason that stealth needs a counter.

no need to add freaking elite with long CD and short duration to reveal stealth. Rangers have pet, pets should be given the ability to autoattack stealthed players. Don’t come to me saying a canine class pet would not be able to do that. 1st, the ability will limited to a pet class, secondly, it will stop somehow the thieves sneaking in a corner between the rocks just waiting for people to leave the node. But hey, AI in the pets sucks, so don’t wait for such things xD

Traps effective way to reveal stealth? meh, a thieve with short-bow or steal in range can overcome pre-laid traps, stun u, back stab, heartseeker u, u name it, before u r dead or close to be dead, and even better, he won’t even feel the condition damage by the time he is done with u, and even better still, he can blind/stealth while downing u, so say bye bye to any counters.

as for the rest, u need to be a good ranger to at least even have change to play with a team in tournaments and stand ur ground vs stealth mechanics. teams don’t like classes that can’t stand up 1v1 vs thieves, as for ranger players, there is a few that can do so.

however, I still don’t see how giving A CLASS a way to hard counter ANOTHER class core mechanics, will fix the problem. There still engis, guardians, warriors, eles, thief themselves without a way to counter stealth mechanics. Is not fair in any way shape or for to have such system