too many mandatory traits, lets add another!

too many mandatory traits, lets add another!

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Posted by: Liewec.2896

Liewec.2896

as the title says, it is a well known fact that Longbow rangers are already tied down to their traits, it is already impossible to make an effective longbow ranger without sacrificing traits.

Eagle Eye: long range dakka dakka is the whole theme of longbow, you’ll want this
Steady Focus: 10% damage increase, nuff said.
Spotter: 150 precision to nearby allies, a must for WVW and team pvp.
Piercing Arrows: you’ll need this in pretty much every mode.
Read the wind: if you took eagle eye then you need this to actually hit things.

so now they add "Predator’s Onlaught: additional damage for you and your pet vs movement impaired targets.

taking the total number of traits perfect for longbow to 6.
no other weapon for another class has these fractured traits, why not merge most of them?
the biggest issue for longbow rangers is having too many traits that it is impossible to get them all, even things like “your arrows pierce” this definitely needs either a merge or to be made default for longbow.

serious merging work needs to be done!

my 2 recommended merges would be Read the wind+Eagle Eye and Spotter + Steady focus

(edited by Liewec.2896)

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Posted by: Cufufalating.8479

Cufufalating.8479

Merging would be nice, but really the new trait is not required for LB.

10% damage is nice on any weapon, but it doesnt offer anything specifically to the LB, nor does it fix any pre-existing issue the LB has. Frankly it’s probably better suited to other weapons such as Axe or Sword, as they have better access to Soft CC.

So I cant say I agree.. it’s a cool trait, but by no means is it one of the “must have” traits, for LB or for any other build.

Cufufalating – Ranger / Part-Time Mesmer
Gunnar’s Hold

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Posted by: Oak da Vite.9054

Oak da Vite.9054

Well, longbow is a power weapon. Therefore they are traited with power stats. This is good, but not perfect.

Be happy that the bow traits are not traited with a completely wrong tradeline like traps are at the moment, which makes them hardly useful except for hybrid bulds. Imagine all bow-traits in WS, NM or BM. You wouldn’t be happy with that either.

Of the 6 traits you metioned only 3 are dedicated for bow/longbow. The others could be used for any power builds. You just cannot have all the good stuff, as bringing a conflict about which trait to choose is the basic of a good build variety for a class.
I prefer build variety instead of boring meta builds that excel other builds by far!

Maybe one could switch the bow-traits in Marksmanship with the trap traits in Skirmishing. Condition duration with traps is the most useful combination and longbow builds work perfectly well with precision/ferocity. This could allow you to combine more of the traits you like without damaging other builds too much.

Da Vite – Miller’s Sound
Last Phoenix [Nix]

(edited by Oak da Vite.9054)

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Posted by: Sevans.4619

Sevans.4619

There’s nothing mandatory about Steady Focus, Spotter or Predator’s Onslaught. Eagle Eye and Read the Wind are not mandatory, but if you choose the former, the latter is nice. Piercing Arrows is fantastic, but the situations where it’s used mean you don’t need Read the Wind.

Making builds is about making decisions and you can make builds that are effective without having to have all these traits. If you could just have everything the game would be boring.

Personally I only find Quick Draw to be ‘mandatory’ for longbow (and after the patch, even more so now that Rapid Fire will be buffed.)

Saethe — Favorable Winds [Wind] — Maguuma

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Posted by: Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

You want everything without having to sacrifice or choose. The trait sysreme isn’t there so you can have it all. Its there yo bolster the aspects of what you are trying to have your build achieve.

Examples
Steady focus, eagle eye, read the wind for long range sniper
Steady , spotter and press onslought for dungeons
Steady, piercing arrows and eagle eye or pve tagging and zerg surfing

Etc etc.
Pretty much the trait puts us on par with the number of damage modifiers other classes can get and allows control builds to do better. Not only that but it promotes use of intimidation training, predators instinct as well as main hand axe for power and bm builds.

I for one will be trying axe/axe again thanks to this trait and the axe changes.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

To some extent I agree that the trait would be nice elsewhere, and I would absolutely love to see it applied to say skirmishing 3 (Merge skirmishing 1 and 3 into both being 1), but it’s not really a totally necessary trait. I mean thematically it makes sense for bow users, but i think its applications are best on axe/dagger. I’d argue spotter is a substantially better trait for longbow users than onslaught.

Imho, I think Eagle Eye should also just be made passive for rangers using longbows to tighten them up a little such that then they’re choosing for might, spotter, or piercing, which are all amazing traits rather than ignoring the three mostly just because Eagle Eye is so necessary.

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Posted by: Jocksy.3415

Jocksy.3415

As others said, building is about making choices…
As to “it is already impossible to make an effective longbow ranger without sacrificing traits.”
It can be effective – just not OP.
And OP calls for nerfs…
Building possibilities – as far as LB goes – looks pretty good to me.
Is SB user ineffective because less traits apply to SB? no…
Is axe User less effective for its lack of traits? no…
Is sword users ineffective because of few traits? No.
LB is one of the few weapons that can be almost totally customisable now – which sounds great to me…

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Posted by: Bran.7425

Bran.7425

Whether or not the traits are mandatory, I would like to point out the there is quiet a bit of trait bloat on ranger and many inferior/lackluster traits all in all they are quite the issue for ranger.

Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.

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Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

The problem with the whole ‘traits are there to make choices’ argument is most of the other classes have to make choices between offense or defense. Rangers don’t. They have to make a choice between offense, offense, and offense. On top of this, the Ranger has traits that are highly inefficient when you compare them to similar traits for other classes. Why is piercing a master trait? Why is eagle eye a master trait? Why is quick draw a master trait?

There is a serious problem with the Marks tree if you plan to use a bow. It’s pefect if you plan to use a melee weapon.

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Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

Merging would be nice, but really the new trait is not required for LB.

10% damage is nice on any weapon, but it doesnt offer anything specifically to the LB, nor does it fix any pre-existing issue the LB has. Frankly it’s probably better suited to other weapons such as Axe or Sword, as they have better access to Soft CC.

So I cant say I agree.. it’s a cool trait, but by no means is it one of the “must have” traits, for LB or for any other build.

Couldn’t word it better. Although the new GM trait is nice for longbow, it isn’t LB themed in any way. It’s just an alternate bonus in damage, read the wind and remorseless however are quite competing.

“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”

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Posted by: Arpheus.6918

Arpheus.6918

I still think that we should be able to have 1500 range piercing arrows with +100% projectile speed (read the wind). These three traits complete the longbow and even with these we would miss out spotter or other stuff.
They should either make piercing or 1500 range an adept trait oder combine the two into one trait.

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Posted by: Serraphin Storm.2369

Serraphin Storm.2369

Long bow attack range is already 1500 you dont need eagle eye ((1200 as intended) and another 300 but you have to actually press the first attack skill) Arrow don’t just stop traveling when they reach 1200.

Eagle eye is in no way mandatory in fact if you have ever used the max range in pve you know its possible to hit a mob but be so far away that it doesn’t aggro (so it still has out of combat regen).

The trait system is about making choices, but it not just the trait its the build system as a whole. You don’t have to max out your power line to get 2.2k power.

Traits are in different line because you have to make choices if all the trap traits where in ws then ever trapper would look exactly the same. What is your focus, damage or defense. Most of the traits in ws are about survival.

Traits really affect play style more than anything else. In that I mean you can hit you target number for condition or power other than maxing these line out, but the devil is in the details and that where the traits are factored in.

We are not warriors we cant do everything without give up something.

In order to properly understand the big picture,
everyone should fear becoming mentally clouded and obsessed with one small section of truth.

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Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

Unless eagle eye granted a 4th stage for the auto attack on longbow auto attack (damage at 1200+ range), its not all that necessary. I’d gladly take piercing arrows over this because in a pvp setting, 1500 range isn’t practical. Most arrow attacks even with read the wind will miss especially against fast moving targets.

“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”

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Posted by: Liewec.2896

Liewec.2896

i appreciate the input guys! i guess what i was trying to say is that when you’re speccing in the marksman tree to use a longbow each trait slot feels like chopping off 2 fingers to use a thumb!

would people atleast agree that read the wind and eagle eye need a merge? both are borderline useless without the other
without read the wind you won’t be able to hit anything from 1500 and without eagle eye you don’t really need faster arrows to hit the target.
merge merge merge!

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Posted by: ITheNormalPerson.9275

ITheNormalPerson.9275

would people atleast agree that read the wind and eagle eye need a merge?

I don’t think it needs a merge, especially now that RTW has a RoF buff. if anything longbow needs the 100% (or just 50%) projectile speed by default.

also, on an OT note, I believe the new trait was added as a replacement for signet of the beastmaster, since that was another of these “mandatory” traits

Druid main, 80 on all, Legendary ranked, Eternal and all that jazz (I go by Feyris in game)

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Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

Signet of the Beastmaster, while an absolutely stupid trait, was a reasonable example of ‘choice’ in the tree. The signets were largely defensive in nature (since most everyone who took SotBM took it solely for SoS with SotW as a nice perk). That was a fair trade off imo: more defense for offense.

But as it stands now, RtW will now absolutely be mandatory for any longbow build simply because it’s effectively a 10% damage increase. Spotter, Eagle Eye, and Piercing Arrows is a bit excessive to choose between imo. One really should be moved somewhere else or merged. Piercing moved to adept like most every other class does for their similar trait is very reasonable to ask imo.

In a perfect world, they’d move it to adept and merge quick draw’s effect with it. That way quick draw could simply be changed to reduce weapon swap cooldown if you have a bow in either hand.

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Posted by: Sevans.4619

Sevans.4619

Now that I think about it, a reduced channel time on Rapid Fire means that less dodges effectively evade more of that damage, so it might push more LB rangers into running dual spiders with Malicious Training and using Rapid Fire on reaction to immobilizes to guarantee that damage.

Saethe — Favorable Winds [Wind] — Maguuma

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

I don’t think it needs a merge, especially now that RTW has a RoF buff. if anything longbow needs the 100% (or just 50%) projectile speed by default.

This was my suggestion on the CDI (passively increase projectile speeds by 100% on the longbow). The result of this was RtW. It’s likely getting the buff because they know it’s mandatory but in itself kinda weak (I mean it’s a GM trait to make a weapon even work) and just don’t feel like developing another new trait.

Now that I think about it, a reduced channel time on Rapid Fire means that less dodges effectively evade more of that damage, so it might push more LB rangers into running dual spiders with Malicious Training and using Rapid Fire on reaction to immobilizes to guarantee that damage.

Our DPS numbers on RF become almost identical to Hundred Blades per unit of time, though, though, with more reliability (ranged heat-seeking/stealth tracking) and no sidestepping. Similarly, wolves will also prove very effective as the channel time on QZ will be less than the fear duration. Even PBS’s knockdown may grant enough time to channel the majority of the damage.

Not to mention the reduced cooldown on Entangle and no distance modifier on RF could allow for some close-range burst fire as well.

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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

Err… they’re already improving the base utility of the longbow itself. So I think these traits are less mandatory because longbow isn’t garbage by default, not to mention Signet of the Beastmaster is no longer needed which resulted in the Marksmanship conundrum that always kittened me off. This is no longer true.

I think Eagle Eye and Piercing Arrows need to be merged personally as I find spotter too valuable to ever ditch, but I don’t see that as critical anymore given the improvements.

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

(edited by ArchonWing.9480)

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Posted by: jcbroe.4329

jcbroe.4329

Signet of the Beastmaster, while an absolutely stupid trait, was a reasonable example of ‘choice’ in the tree. The signets were largely defensive in nature (since most everyone who took SotBM took it solely for SoS with SotW as a nice perk). That was a fair trade off imo: more defense for offense.

But as it stands now, RtW will now absolutely be mandatory for any longbow build simply because it’s effectively a 10% damage increase. Spotter, Eagle Eye, and Piercing Arrows is a bit excessive to choose between imo. One really should be moved somewhere else or merged. Piercing moved to adept like most every other class does for their similar trait is very reasonable to ask imo.

In a perfect world, they’d move it to adept and merge quick draw’s effect with it. That way quick draw could simply be changed to reduce weapon swap cooldown if you have a bow in either hand.

I would actually think that in a perfect scenario, Spotter would be the trait that gets moved down to adept tier (really I think it should be the adept tier in Skirmishing, but adept regardless).

Overall Spotter just doesn’t thematically fit into the Marksmanship line to me. The most perfect scenario to me would be merging Piercing Arrows into Quickdraw and leaving it as Quickdraw and a Master Tier, and taking Spotter and moving it to the Adept tier in Skirmishing.

Then take remove Agility Training and in one of the Marksmanship Master Tier slots that’s open, create “Agile Predator: Your pet moves 30% faster, and you move 25% faster while wielding a Bow.”

Lastly, new Master Trait in Marksmanship: “Unsuspecting Strike: Opening Strike now also steals health.”

That in my mind would create the most combinations and the best system of tradeoffs.

Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Platinum Division Top 100 Player
www.twitch.tv/itsJROH For stream, stream schedule, other streamers, builds, etc
https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

It makes the most sense to make Eagle Eye an Adept trait in all honesty. Sometimes piercing is a liability. Eagle Eye can never be since the reduction in damage is flat and does not scale by distance from the target as a percentage of one’s current range increment.

Plus, Eagle Eye doesn’t really break anything in MMS as an adept trait, leaves open other traits for non-archer power rangers, and lets players use it and piercing or spotter together depending on what they prefer to do. This also gets rid of the whole issue of either feeling the adept traits are all “meh” in MMS, while also creating more variety for archers by giving Steady Focus some competition.

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Posted by: SemiProBBQ.8946

SemiProBBQ.8946

I see the new GM trait as a much needed improvement to PvE when coupled with not having to trait for signets. Now I can do a permanent 10% more dmg with sword auto at permanent uptime as well as not having to trait into signets for 25% more damage with fiery rush. Not having to trait into signets is very nice as it gives us some on demand stabo besides rampage or 6 seconds of no damage – both nice in pvp when you dont have to trait for them.

Delecroix – Ranger master race

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Posted by: thefantasticg.3984

thefantasticg.3984

Steady , spotter and press onslought for dungeons

That’s what I’ll be running in fractals after the change.

RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.