Guild Wars 2

ELITE SPECIALIZATIONS tend to be built to improve on an area that the class is lacking in or has as a weakness.

what weakness or area of lacking does the Ranger class have, that the druid can for fill?

Focused and meaningful support.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Focused and meaningful support.

Spirits and Horn doesnt do that for the class?

A couple of boons are not really meaningful, since all classes already have access to those boons. Depending on how they change the spirits, they could possibly become very very good, or remain meh.

What I mean by focused and meaningful would be AoE ground targeted and pulsing stability while foes get -ve effect, AoE ground targeted condi transfer to foes. AoE Heals, Resistance and Retaliation, unique buffs akin to spirits, Spotter type buff with condition damage and duration, venoms, etc.

Spirits seem to be based on long term aoe benefits. Which (once they get reworked as anet stated provided its done right. Though what they have shown us gives me a decent amount of hope that it will be.) is just fine as long as your in a position to make use of that.

In a fight with multiple waves on enemies coming at you for example.

The issue is for now atleast thats a minority. And as of right now they don’t provide a significant difference in the overall combat of an area.

I imagine the druid will provide a more…immediate source. I would guess itl have the same “overall” effectiveness of the reworked spirits as far as support or control goes. (if there support/control based. Anet could through another curveball like they did with the reaper and Dragonhunter) However the druids form would be more short term and immediate. (vine wall cuts off enemy movement. Field of steel grass cripples an area. Conjure bark armor around allies to protect them for a few short seconds.)

Course they could also go with beacon skills. (which would be freaking amazing).

On condi front rangers lack any torment, while confusion is in short supply.
Torment is the biggest shocker, as ranger is hands down the most anti-enemy movement profession of all.

Confusion is next in line, especially since ranger has access to fast interrupting (point blank shot, concussion shot, hilt bash).

Another thing in short supply are aoe attacks. There’s barrage and that’s it. All else is either pet (crap damage), or conditions from traps (crap damage too). Nothing that would reallly give’m hell inside the red circle.

Support, especially in large groups like wvw.
And along with that, good large group abilities, the GS is okay for frontlining, but is generally outclassed by other classes. i think good AoE’s would help as well

Knighthonor.4061:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Focused and meaningful support.

Spirits and Horn doesnt do that for the class?

Yeah, in dungeons, where the ranger probably will be in a very good place when they implement the trait changes.

As far as pvp and wvw goes, though. Nope.

• Reliable AoE hard CC (we only have pets and Path of Scars)
• Active support (spirits are passive and can get interrupted, also have delay)
• Spike Damage. We either have a long CD RF, or not-powerful-enough Maul. Apart from that, we have a constant Auto-Attack stream that can be ignored unless we go full Zerk (and sometimes even in full Zerk).

We lack a good source of cleave. Traps don’t trigger on downed, gs is awful too.

I certainly agree that we’re lacking when it comes to support, or at least we aren’t rewarded much if at all for investing in a supportive build. For Healing power we only benefit allies through Regen, Water Spirit’s passive (which means no Healing Spring) and invigorating bond, since we’re applying regen we’re stopping our allies from getting their normal regen (which admittedly isn’t a lot, regen’s base healing is pitiful). As for boon duration… We can make Call of the Wild last a lot longer and uh… Apply a half decent uptime of protection with stone spirit? Perma swiftness and regen are already a thing with Guard+Shout master+Nature’s Voice and that’s without any extra boon duration than what nature magic naturally provides.

Things I didn’t mention? They don’t scale with boon duration or healing power. This is certainly true for vigorous training, Spirit of Nature, Healer’s Celerity, even our water spirit’s aqua surge!

When I stop playing Cleric’s Ranger and enjoy my Zerker Ele for a bit, it feels bad that my 4 points in water magic and Staff feel better supporting my team than my entire build on my Ranger. The Ranger is great at invisibly supporting their team through spotter, frost spirit, opening strikes and even Nature’s Voice, but while the Ranger has made great strides in supporting allies since release, said support skills don’t feel anywhere near as good as being a Guardian that dumped Wall of Reflection or Save Yourselves on their skill bar.

I’m not expecting it to be a copy and paste of the Ele water staff with Earth Staff 4 worked in… But that’s the kind of skills the ranger needs.

Tragic Positive.9356:

• Reliable AoE hard CC (we only have pets and Path of Scars)
• Active support (spirits are passive and can get interrupted, also have delay)
• Spike Damage. We either have a long CD RF, or not-powerful-enough Maul. Apart from that, we have a constant Auto-Attack stream that can be ignored unless we go full Zerk (and sometimes even in full Zerk).

The first two I find more likely. A druid growing plants out of the ground and creating areas of healing for party members sounds like a perfect excuse for a supporty type of character that has a good deal of hard CC.

- PvE Open world : It’s already solid there.
- PvE Dungeon : They are decent there. One thing they should have is a secondary weapon with burst skill that they can swap to during combat. A bit like the combo GS + Sw/X for the guardian. Ranger have that now with Longbow + Sw/X, but the Longbow is only worth it at the start of a fight, after it’s sword only. Sword is hard to master and it’s kind of boring. A rotation with a second bursty weapon would be nice, but I doubt staff will fill that space so let’s forget about that.
- WvW Zerg : A Druid that can support a zerg with a staff? That could be insteresting. Ranger are decent, but like the engineer it’s a second class profession for WvW zerg.
- WvW Roaming : A top melee roaming build would be nice. Ranger are backline roamer right now. They can do a great job supporting their friends with firepower, but in One vs One they are lacking.
- sPvP : They already have a hybrid Brawler, a power killer and a condition build. They are not perfect, but still decent. The only other role I could see would be a support brawler like the current Elementalist and Warrior. They have something similar with the Condition Survival build, but it doesn’t really support their team like an Elementalist or Warrior can.

So a support brawler that could work in sPvP and WvW Zerg (a bit like the Shoutbow warrior) would be my best choice and it would fit with the Staff Druid.

One interesting thing I realized is that if they wanted to do a “support brawler” as Thaddeus so aptly put it, one easy way would be to but the brawler part on the pet and the support part on the druid. Give the pet a big buff (hopefully including AI and target tracking) while the druid itself gets control effects to hold the target still for the pet and support abilities to keep both themselves and the pet standing.

Ranged dps. Fire staff ele mops floor with longbow ranger.

Justine.6351:

Ranged dps. Fire staff ele mops floor with longbow ranger.

Ele staff is a completely different combat paradigm. We do lack AoE though, beyond Barrage on the Longbow and Entangle.

Maul
Whirling Axe
Traps
Muddy terrain
Bonfire
Split blade
Spirit activates
Gazzilion pet skills

The fundamental problem with the overall class is that Rangers have a bit of almost everything, but not truly amazing at anything. Evading, perhaps. I mostly play PvE, and I’ve left my ranger behind. Honestly, if they gave my pet evades when I dodged, and fixed the sword auto-attack chain, I would consider going back to my ranger. In dungeons I always feel sub-par with my damage, even when considering my pet’s damage (yes, my ranger is full zerk).

On the note of them buffing spirits, they have already told us that they plan to make them stationary (removing the trait that lets them follow you) but will update their abilities/health/effects to compensate. I keep thinking about how in CoE against subject alpha my pet and my frost spirit died so quickly that I was left going “Well, guess I’ll just whack away and hope I can interrupt my sword’s attack to dodge in time”.

I hope with druid there is more party support (letting a druid ranger be a viable replacement to another support class in a dungeon) or an improvement in general utility or damage. I understand the Ranger’s personal DPS has to be lower because the pet also does damage, but when my pet’s die so quickly (I refuse to use bears unless I HAVE to have the extra survivability) it makes me feel like I’m bringing less to the table. That’s why I stopped using my ranger as my main. I’ll take rangers into dungeons with me all day long, but I personally fell out of love with playing one a while ago.

@Justine: Several of those are just cleaving melee attacks, not AoE. Traps are getting nerfed (and buffed, weirdly), Muddy Terrain is control but not AoE damage, and the majority of pet activations are clunky, difficult to use, and not able to be aimed if you can control when they’re used at all. Split Blade you basically need to be in melee to use to full effectiveness, and spirits have a host of their own problems, not the least of which is that you need to trait for them to be useful at all. We don’t have any unconditional AoE capability beyond the skills I mentioned, and even then Entangle is more of a widespread immobilization than AoE damage, since you care not a lick for the bleeding if you’re not a condi build, and the damage the roots do is minimal at best.

@Valkyrie: If you’re having troubles with squishy pets, I’d recommend trying out drakes. their survivability is second only to bears, and they’re unique among pets in that they can cleave. The river drake, while being ugly, also has a decently damaging F2 skill as well. They don’t have amazing single-target DPS, but aren’t liable to die every time something breathes on them either, and the cleaving helps to make up for the DPS loss, though it’s not really a loss if it’s standing when a cat isn’t.

That said, I’m personally hoping for strong buffs to healing and control. I want my pet to be buffed in regards to overall capabilities, but I can live without that if it means I can keep the pet standing. At the moment I can get my drakes to tank for me in mid-level fractals, but I still have to manage how they survive and sometimes they can be really dumb in where they’re standing (cliffside chest seal, looking at you.)

Harnel- Thanks, I haven’t tried drakes for quite a while, I’ll give them another try when I dust off my ranger again. I think as far as pet mechanic the largest issue is the AI tied to them. Even if Anet improves it, AI is always tricky and not quite “right”. They do have to walk a fine line between making them better and making them “OP”. Though they seem to be extremely cautious not to accidentally make them too strong.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

A couple of boons are not really meaningful, since all classes already have access to those boons. Depending on how they change the spirits, they could possibly become very very good, or remain meh.

What I mean by focused and meaningful would be AoE ground targeted and pulsing stability while foes get -ve effect, AoE ground targeted condi transfer to foes. AoE Heals, Resistance and Retaliation, unique buffs akin to spirits, Spotter type buff with condition damage and duration, venoms, etc.

Try a necro and get back.

Ranger: Spirits/Boons/Spotter

Don’t get me wrong it’s nothing compared to my Phalanx/Banner Regen War but it’s ahead my Necro for sure.

Ragnar.1546:

Try a necro and get back.

Ranger: Spirits/Boons/Spotter

Don’t get me wrong it’s nothing compared to my Phalanx/Banner Regen War but it’s ahead my Necro for sure.

The problem here being that “At least you’re not [class]” isn’t really an argument. if your support is terrible, being slightly less terrible than someone else doesn’t stop you from sucking at it.

About Ranger support.
… I don’t know about you guyz, but I can tell that Spirit Ranger is a thing.
The support it provides is pretty noticeable. And it is by no means weak or inferior or what not.

It is, however, unreliable which makes it inferior.

Tragic Positive.9356:

About Ranger support.
… I don’t know about you guyz, but I can tell that Spirit Ranger is a thing.
The support it provides is pretty noticeable. And it is by no means weak or inferior or what not.

It is, however, unreliable which makes it inferior.

Unreliable, passive. Boring. The only “exciting” part is trying to keep the spirits alive for as long as possible before the clusterkitten of a cele meta melts them. Crossing my fingers and hoping that the druid brings something a bit more active, without that being another source of regeneration which we have an abundance of already (I wasn’t the only one raising an eyebrow when they added yet another source of regen on the warhorn trait, right? Guyzz, staaph, we already full uptime!).

Rangers are fine in dungeons though. Pretty much the closest class to break into the standard War/Thief/Guard/Ele X2 composition. A no-brainer when the guard isn’t needed. High damage and good offensive support, I don’t see what all the fuss is about from all the PvE’ers. Maybe we’re lucky and Whirling Defense becomes a reliable group reflect when they increase the base radius.

Harnel.6810:

Ragnar.1546:

Try a necro and get back.

Ranger: Spirits/Boons/Spotter

Don’t get me wrong it’s nothing compared to my Phalanx/Banner Regen War but it’s ahead my Necro for sure.

The problem here being that “At least you’re not [class]” isn’t really an argument. if your support is terrible, being slightly less terrible than someone else doesn’t stop you from sucking at it.

It’s more like they’re saying, “sure, your supposed strength is bad, but at least it’s better than the profession designed with it as their intended weakness!”. Arenanet have said before that the Ranger is supposed to be among the top when it comes to party support, yet all we really provide is a DPS boost for our existence in the local viscinity. Unless the numbers are broken you can’t make “everyone does X% more damage” feel good in a visceral game. Providing allies with our opening strike so we can coordinate a spike would be a perfectly good Ranger style support option.

HotHit.6783:

Providing allies with our opening strike so we can coordinate a spike would be a perfectly good Ranger style support option.

Welp, giving us the option to reapply opening strike and thus more vuln is supportive as well, for that matter. I like the idea, though.

Im not a ranger player, but from my point of view:
Ranger damage is ok both as power and certainly as condition.
Power however is lacking in dungeons because of stack meat doesnt allow you to
sit at max range for most damage.. that and lack of cleave.

So damage wise its fine and fair.

Rangers can bulk up with dire build, got plenty of condi and power damage depending on build. Whats left? → Support <-

People already mentioned support. Just to clarify i dont think Spirits will be able to cover the support role even if they are buffed by quite a bit, not in any gamemode..

Thats just my 2cents.

If anything, I think rangers lack a one handed cleaving weapon that doesn’t root you when using it. This won’t happen

Support already change in the fact that there are a lot of change in “core specialization”. In fact a lot of things will change for rangers with these change alone. Although, boon wise, rangers would only need 1 or 2 blast finisher to be on par with engi or elementalist.

What I think, and it will probably not be welcome by a lot of rangers, is that they will make the elite specialization even more dependant of their pet. When you think of a druid, it’s more or less a “nature” elementalist. Anet seem to don’t like my bets but, if I had to bet, I’d say that Druids will end up gaining glyph that will probably affect their pets (or their pet’s surrounding).

Knighthonor.4061:

ELITE SPECIALIZATIONS tend to be built to improve on an area that the class is lacking in or has as a weakness.

I wish that were true but judging by the reaper specialization for necro I think they are just trying to add something gimicky that looks or sounds cool. Slow attacks aren’t going to make them any more desirable in PvE, and their lack of mobility still screws them in PvP/WvW roaming. But hey, at least they’ll look cool while getting decimated by rangers.

HotHit.6783:

Providing allies with our opening strike so we can coordinate a spike would be a perfectly good Ranger style support option.

That would be an amazing druid trait! “Whenever you gain Opening Strike, so do nearby allies.”

Sweeeeet!

Noha.3749:

Im not a ranger player, but from my point of view:
Ranger damage is ok both as power and certainly as condition.
Power however is lacking in dungeons because of stack meat doesnt allow you to
sit at max range for most damage.. that and lack of cleave.

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/05/gw2-ranger-pve-class-guide-by-lorek-and-cell/

You’re doing it wrong, and I’m too lazy so I will let someone else do the explaining on how you actually should play it. DO NOT sit at range and pew pew with your longbow and then precede to claim that the damage is lacking. That’s just as frutiful as telling the warriors that their rifles do low damage in dungeons.

Noha.3749:

Rangers can bulk up with dire build, got plenty of condi and power damage depending on build. Whats left? -> Support <-

People already mentioned support. Just to clarify i dont think Spirits will be able to cover the support role even if they are buffed by quite a bit, not in any gamemode..

Thats just my 2cents.

Even if it’s just a small numbers buff, I think Sunny at least will be in a better spot, AoE blind is powerful and burning stacking intensity will make its passive useful, Storm will be having a bad time since providing teammates with mobility and wanting to PBAoE people’s faces doesn’t mix well with lacking the ability to move. Stone is pretty worthless mechanically though mistimed active defence is worthless and even if Quicksand is useful it’s completely overshadowed by Muddy Terrain.

I’d like to be able go into a lane in the Silverwastes and actively protect a Seige Carrier like Necromancers (fear away enemies and renewing blast the carrier), Elementalists (Staff F4, 4, 2, F1, 2, 5, F2, 2, 4, 5, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1….), Thieves (I put Shadow refuge on my bar) and Engineers (blasting heals that blast healing) can.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

HotHit.6783:

Providing allies with our opening strike so we can coordinate a spike would be a perfectly good Ranger style support option.

That would be an amazing druid trait! “Whenever you gain Opening Strike, so do nearby allies.”

Sweeeeet!

The amounts of possible vulnerarbility and guaranteed crits with the new opening strike traits would be stupidly fun.

Harnel.6810:

Ragnar.1546:

Try a necro and get back.

Ranger: Spirits/Boons/Spotter

Don’t get me wrong it’s nothing compared to my Phalanx/Banner Regen War but it’s ahead my Necro for sure.

The problem here being that “At least you’re not [class]” isn’t really an argument. if your support is terrible, being slightly less terrible than someone else doesn’t stop you from sucking at it.

Sure. But it’s their game design, they made it clear the Necro wasn’t going to get support options even remotely similar to the Warrior. So if Ranger is set at their idea of support what’s the point of this post?

I think if they say each class should be their own tank/healer ect that’s fine… So should support I suppose. But then why bother having different classes if all they do is the same thing but show it in a different way?

Niche areas of support make more sense but won’t happen due to too much overhaul involved.

On the point of every class being a ‘reskin of the same thing’ or however you mean it, no, that is not and will not be the case. Every class at current can do direct damage, but eles, rangers, engies, warriors, and guardians all still have a much different playstyle for them, and even sometimes different playstyles within the same class that accomplishes the same thing. So, yeah, no. What you’re asking for there is outside the scope of this particular game, and your concern isn’t even accurate on how things would be handled currently or in the future.

what it sounds like is that you’re whining because Necromancers aren’t getting the support options you want them to have, when they’re instead filling in a different role that Necromancers need filled. It sounds like a classic “You’re getting something I’m not, so I want that instead” like a child, and I have to believe you didn’t intend it that way.

Harnel.6810:

On the point of every class being a ‘reskin of the same thing’ or however you mean it, no, that is not and will not be the case. Every class at current can do direct damage, but eles, rangers, engies, warriors, and guardians all still have a much different playstyle for them, and even sometimes different playstyles within the same class that accomplishes the same thing. So, yeah, no. What you’re asking for there is outside the scope of this particular game, and your concern isn’t even accurate on how things would be handled currently or in the future.

what it sounds like is that you’re whining because Necromancers aren’t getting the support options you want them to have, when they’re instead filling in a different role that Necromancers need filled. It sounds like a classic “You’re getting something I’m not, so I want that instead” like a child, and I have to believe you didn’t intend it that way.

Lol no.

I bounce between Ranger/Necro as a main which is why I use the Necro as an example. I personally do believe that they did Necro right via support with incoming changes allowing them access to easy and mass stacks of vulnerability. I wouldn’t complain if they gave my Necro might and fury but I could careless as I’d still play my Necro in any part of the game I want to.

Would I enjoy my support options I have with my War in all classes I decide to play? Hell yeah. Do I seriously think I’m gonna get it? Nope.

The Ranger is ok at “support”… Not great not bad. But it’s all premature as you have no idea with the “Druid” spec will bring.

A fair point, but we do at least have an idea. Of particular note is the ascended ring Druid’s Circle, which has cleric stats on it (Healing Power/Power/Toughness). given how many things that they’re adding to the game with HoT that they intended for there to be from the start (there’s an engineer trainer wielding a hammer, for example, but that’s the only one I can remember off the top of my head), I’m fairly certain this is a clue as to the type of playstyle we can look forward to with druids. It very heavily suggests support – if I’m wrong, I can accept that, but for the moment, this is what I find to be most likely.

We lack any forms of decent AOE damage. Hope Druid will be an offensive AOE spammer, not defensive Guardian staff playstyle.

I’d like to see wells that support allies, but also see changes to shouts, for example making them less dependent on pets, seeing as the only really useful shout might be protect me, and even then there are more useful skills

My guess is it’ll be a combo of staff ele and staff guard. Some damage, some support.

I’ll probably get kicked in the nuts for saying this but I’d have rather they done a BM related spec that allowed us access to two pets at once with a pet overhaul.

I’d suspect what we end up with is something related to Bleed/Poison condi’s, Protection & Regen. It would fit into the theme of the Ranger and what we already have access to. All I hope for it is that it compliments the LB well enough. Maybe it’s us tomorrow? I need to decide which my main main is going to be.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – Mymoney’s on big buffs to the pet to cover DPS loss for the druid being support and control focused.

Well, regardless of what the opinions are:

Ranger is okay in damage. Ranger actually fits the PvE zerk meta. But that, by all means necessary, does not imply into PvP environment.

Ranger is awful when it comes to PvP from power point of view. Ranged damage is low (you never fight from range in PvE), we have no offensive utility, half of our mechanics cannot be used when they are needed because we are sitting at 1500 range waiting to use them defensively, we lack port mechanism to get to higher ground (ever other Zerk class has it. Even Guardians can port up to get us) and some other could come into mind.

One way or another, Rangers do not have the requirements needed to be a meta Power Class in PvP. In their current state pre-expansion, that is.

Lazze.9870:

Noha.3749:

Im not a ranger player, but from my point of view:
Ranger damage is ok both as power and certainly as condition.
Power however is lacking in dungeons because of stack meat doesnt allow you to
sit at max range for most damage.. that and lack of cleave.

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/05/gw2-ranger-pve-class-guide-by-lorek-and-cell/

You’re doing it wrong, and I’m too lazy so I will let someone else do the explaining on how you actually should play it. DO NOT sit at range and pew pew with your longbow and then precede to claim that the damage is lacking. That’s just as frutiful as telling the warriors that their rifles do low damage in dungeons.

Christ, then im really surprised about the amount of LB rangers i see in dungeons then. I knew the Sword animation is troublesome for messing with dodges, so i thought that was the reason for going with a lower dmg weapon, maybe thats still a common reason though.. Being lazy or afraid of getting ashamed for missing dodges due to locked animation..

@Noha
I’m not sure if I wanted to be accused of making a mistake (while it’s worth mentioning that people are understanding towards sword issues)
Or being known as a useful selfish bearbow freak.

… Take a guess or two. It’s not as hard to realize what’s the deal. Longbow has noticeable spike. But if you fire at least 3 autoattacks with it – you already dropped in damage. It’s not even worth swapping mid-fight to it.