Guild Wars 2

I see a lot of complaints about Ranger in SPvP.

But what exactly is bad about Rangers in SPvP?

Because i seen some really good Longbow rangers in SPvP.

Nobody going to be as good as Ele but Ele. So nobody expects them to be on that level right? So whats been the problem?

I think the popularity of rangers is increasing. Even in ESL they are not as rare anymore (meaning there are a few now as opposed to absolutely 0 some months ago). I’m afraid that what is carrying them is mostly the weird behavior of taunt (is it supposed to be unavoidable?). If this is fixed (assuming it is not intended) then rangers may go down a bit.

Ranger can survive and play well without Taunt its not Required to make a strong build .

what most people don’t notice is having to keep track of distances if they use a LB correctly they can control the opponents by using distance to their advantage by judging Ranged or the distance from the target know what ports/teleports normaly 1200yards a LB can easy out range that when distanced correctly or combo’d with Mobility CC can live forever and only those Ports/teleports or Hard CC will stop you.

the generic Taunt build is normaly Pure Melee just used as a distration there isn’;t much focus or judgement of distances , treated just like a Warroir attack>evade>damage>taunt> a basic Melee Rotation pretty simple to understand.

Silverkey.2078:

I think the popularity of rangers is increasing. Even in ESL they are not as rare anymore (meaning there are a few now as opposed to absolutely 0 some months ago). I’m afraid that what is carrying them is mostly the weird behavior of taunt (is it supposed to be unavoidable?). If this is fixed (assuming it is not intended) then rangers may go down a bit.

Before taunt what was wrong with them though?

Nothing is wrong, they just don’t don’t bring as much utility as similarly functioning builds. Power LB? Mesmer does the same with better burst potential and AoE, with boonstripping, portal, and a choice of team stealthing or moa for focusing bunkers.

Condi? Engi just does condi better. Stronger applications, AoE, and more defensive utility unless the ranger build is condi survival, in which case engi just outright teamfights better because application/cleave.

In general though, boonstripping or boon punishment has always been the biggest thing lacking compared to the next in slot option. Also, in premade vs premade, the lack of vertical mobility (aka a teleport) is a real weakness when you have people on VoIP focusing targets, and you’ll definitely need a teammate to peel for you, which isn’t really the case with classes that can just port out of the situation and/or stealth indefinitely and reset.

But, a lot of that is high level balance, and is no indicator of ranger being weak. In matchmade games that aren’t premade vs premade, people should rarely run into any issues playing ranger.

The only time ranger ever lacks is when you’re optimizing a 5 man team comp based solely on build effectiveness, in which case the obvious team comp right now is 1 thief and 4 cele eles, which is actually banned from competitive use in the community tournaments right now because its use spawned the creation of the rule where teams have to have 3 unique classes.

Knighthonor.4061:

Silverkey.2078:

I think the popularity of rangers is increasing. Even in ESL they are not as rare anymore (meaning there are a few now as opposed to absolutely 0 some months ago). I’m afraid that what is carrying them is mostly the weird behavior of taunt (is it supposed to be unavoidable?). If this is fixed (assuming it is not intended) then rangers may go down a bit.

Before taunt what was wrong with them though?

The same things that are wrong with them now, only a lot more emphasized:

The pet being more of an annoyance than being actually helpful (this one got a lot better with the last patch, since there are now useful beastmastery traits and taunt is carrying you in every 1v1 situation. Also the pets hit for a decent amount with Beastmastery traited).
Outclassed in the dps/focus/+1/roaming niche my mesmers.
Easily killed in teamfights by hard cc.
Nothing to help in teamfights, exept damage (the new Allies Aid is useful, but that’s not really what I’d call good support).
Outclassed as a point holder by eles and many more.

You can make ranger work in PvP, the recent trait changes helped a lot with that:
Survivability on power builds went up a lot since you can use the new Weakness/Protection/Blind traits without sacrificing much of your damage.
Taunt is a super strong cc, useful both in 1v1 and in teamfights.
Decent condi remove & personal utility with survival skills.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Ranger can survive and play well without Taunt its not Required to make a strong build .

what most people don’t notice is having to keep track of distances if they use a LB correctly they can control the opponents by using distance to their advantage by judging Ranged or the distance from the target know what ports/teleports normaly 1200yards a LB can easy out range that when distanced correctly or combo’d with Mobility CC can live forever and only those Ports/teleports or Hard CC will stop you.

the generic Taunt build is normaly Pure Melee just used as a distration there isn’;t much focus or judgement of distances , treated just like a Warroir attack>evade>damage>taunt> a basic Melee Rotation pretty simple to understand.

Here we have the definition of a pewpew from 1500 ranger using his teammates as a meat grinder giving nothing in return except a zerk glass cannon build. No team really wants selfish players like this and that’s why rangers have that bad reputation in PvP.

Rangers have many issues that make them subpar to any other class. Ranger is not really unplayable as they are simply subpar.
With a ranger you will win players in a lower level of the learning curve but that will happen with any class.
But it will not happen with same skilled players 1v1 with all those reflects, teleport, leaps, blinks, invulns that any other class have to close the gap. If you can land a full RF in any player that should be an indicative of a massive difference in expertise and the ranger should ragequit just out of respect.

I have a higher win rate on ele with 10% of the games than I do on ranger.

The issue is that other classes are so unreasonable compared to ranger. I’ve had engie friends hit 800k dmg dealt. I have hit 550k on my ele. My best games on ranger net me 300-400k with less sustain than either of the above.

What I find is that ranger is objectively worse than another class in any category for ranked play.

How does condi engi out perform in group fights compared to a trap survival ranger?
And why are rangers widely considered to be one of the best 1v1 classes in sPVP?

Exclude taunt. It isn’t as large as a factor as apparently 90% of the community thinks it is.

I’m genuinely curious because I’m not really well versed with engi and I rarely lose 1v1.

No hostility here, btw. I just want more information.

In a 1v1 the ranger’s pet really shines. We have so much soft control that we can pretty easily get the pet to land it’kittens even without taunt, and the extra damage and control the pet brings can make a big difference in a duel scenario.

In larger scale fights the pet’s impact becomes less noticeable and their vulnerability to excessive cleave and AoE makes them a liability. This coupled with rangers providing less team support than other professions and having less mobility than a thief means we can’t easily fit into any of the major roles in a big enough way to make us an attractive option.

you know, my main isnt a ranger, but I have a condi/cc build using, among other things, both pink moa (daze) and wolf (fear) along with short and long bow, heh, the taunt trait, and some stuff enhancing condis and cc in both gear and traits.

It did pretty well really, I was happy with it.

Cuz if you want a +1, mesmer and thief is better, if you want a point holder, there are tons of good bunker builds that can do the job yet have better group support when needed.

anduriell.6280:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Ranger can survive and play well without Taunt its not Required to make a strong build .

what most people don’t notice is having to keep track of distances if they use a LB correctly they can control the opponents by using distance to their advantage by judging Ranged or the distance from the target know what ports/teleports normaly 1200yards a LB can easy out range that when distanced correctly or combo’d with Mobility CC can live forever and only those Ports/teleports or Hard CC will stop you.

the generic Taunt build is normaly Pure Melee just used as a distration there isn’;t much focus or judgement of distances , treated just like a Warroir attack>evade>damage>taunt> a basic Melee Rotation pretty simple to understand.

Here we have the definition of a pewpew from 1500 ranger using his teammates as a meat grinder giving nothing in return except a zerk glass cannon build. No team really wants selfish players like this and that’s why rangers have that bad reputation in PvP.

Rangers have many issues that make them subpar to any other class. Ranger is not really unplayable as they are simply subpar.
With a ranger you will win players in a lower level of the learning curve but that will happen with any class.
But it will not happen with same skilled players 1v1 with all those reflects, teleport, leaps, blinks, invulns that any other class have to close the gap. If you can land a full RF in any player that should be an indicative of a massive difference in expertise and the ranger should ragequit just out of respect.

Necro has non of these… And Rangers do have leaps and stealth themselves.

Shiki.7148:

anduriell.6280:

snip

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

snip

Necro has non of these… And Rangers do have leaps and stealth themselves.

And? Necro still has a decent place in the PvP Meta because of Might stacking, boon hate, teleports, conditions and AoE as well as group support through condi removal and conversion.

What is bad about rangers in sPvP?

We do not achieve any role. We help the objectives with a mashup of random events that cannot be called “useful”.

We might be able to defeat some or most players at 1v1 but for that to happen we need to use lots of evades and abilities that make you leave your point –
counter-productive.

In LB builds – you bring damage only. No stomps, no revives, no damage soak, few CC, no support for your team. So you are basically more of a burden than not.

Of course bringing the damage helps but playing Mesmer for this role is double the reward.

anduriell.6280:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Ranger can survive and play well without Taunt its not Required to make a strong build .

what most people don’t notice is having to keep track of distances if they use a LB correctly they can control the opponents by using distance to their advantage by judging Ranged or the distance from the target know what ports/teleports normaly 1200yards a LB can easy out range that when distanced correctly or combo’d with Mobility CC can live forever and only those Ports/teleports or Hard CC will stop you.

the generic Taunt build is normaly Pure Melee just used as a distration there isn’;t much focus or judgement of distances , treated just like a Warroir attack>evade>damage>taunt> a basic Melee Rotation pretty simple to understand.

Here we have the definition of a pewpew from 1500 ranger using his teammates as a meat grinder giving nothing in return except a zerk glass cannon build. No team really wants selfish players like this and that’s why rangers have that bad reputation in PvP.

Rangers have many issues that make them subpar to any other class. Ranger is not really unplayable as they are simply subpar.
With a ranger you will win players in a lower level of the learning curve but that will happen with any class.
But it will not happen with same skilled players 1v1 with all those reflects, teleport, leaps, blinks, invulns that any other class have to close the gap. If you can land a full RF in any player that should be an indicative of a massive difference in expertise and the ranger should ragequit just out of respect.

did i say use Pure and only LB no so it is not
“the definition of a pewpew from 1500 ranger using his teammates as a meat grinder”
i also mentioned the use of distractions (mobilityt CC) drawing fire and moving ontop point , you can;’t label my comment as that Because Experienced rangers know the differences between skillful use of ~LB rather than just using LB .

ps If i find you in pvp, i will kill you with my needle stick called a Sword! rather than a LB the LB is a burst utility weapon not somthing you;d sit at 1500 yards consistantly knowing when to contribute is a major factor in the ranger class and just Jumping in at random times will get this class killed as it has no Easy escapes or invis/stealths for distractions and before you say oh but you have Huntershot that stealth is useless without superspeed the distance moved while in stealth for 3 seconds is not enough to get off the node or even repostion its for tactcal placement/distractions ;-}

also the game is not 1vs1 you have to trust your team mates to do the right thing at the right time and if they don’t they are just simply " A bad Player" " not a bad class." so take the judgemental labels else where"

What is bad about rangers in sPvP?

We can Hold point, we can do Damage, we can do allot of things, BUT!
Every other class can do it too, and Every class can do it better and will fit more roles in one build, than ranger.

No matter what build you make, other classes will be more effective in teamfights, that ranger.

These is most sad part.

Rizo.9534:

What is bad about rangers in sPvP?

We can Hold point, we can do Damage, we can do allot of things, BUT!
Every other class can do it too, and Every class can do it better and will fit more roles in one build, than ranger.

No matter what build you make, other classes will be more effective in teamfights, that ranger.

These is most sad part.

Except in 1v1s with no escapes, fight to death!!
That is where ranger is top… dueling 1v1 to the death

ragnarokda.1805:

How does condi engi out perform in group fights compared to a trap survival ranger?
And why are rangers widely considered to be one of the best 1v1 classes in sPVP?

Exclude taunt. It isn’t as large as a factor as apparently 90% of the community thinks it is.

I’m genuinely curious because I’m not really well versed with engi and I rarely lose 1v1.

No hostility here, btw. I just want more information.

I main an engi spvp but love my ranger more, so I can shed a little light on this.
I (engi) can move quicker between points/fights and escape more easily than a trap ranger with elixir S/stealth. The engi condi build also doesn’t need to stand on top of the trap or rely on the traps and still deal massive cleave (more so than a trap). If I take mortar kit I have group AOE buffs and debuffs along with orbital strike which is a blast finisher.
Like others have said, a ranger is def powerful, especially those condi burst trap rangers, they really give me tough time, but other classes can do it better.

The real problem is that ranger deal so little damage.
Yes maul can hit a lot but that’s about it. The autoattack with marauder stats is half the damage of a d/d ele autoattacking with celestial stats.
Longbow should be called Longcooldown or “Lowdamagesoihadtogofullzerkbutstillislowkitten”
“Working as intended”
Because we have a useless pets that cost us half our damage multiplier!!!
They added taunt for this very reason, pets were useless.

This is so flawed I can’t even start, let’s simply imagine asking to a d/d ele to remove half of their damage and condis application BECAUSE THEY HAVE F-ATTUNEMENT
Yep that’s right ranger is the only class for which the F-mechanic is substractive!
It cost us to have a pet to F-skills, and a we pay in damage reduction.
Anet logic!

Tomorrow on “Monkey Balancing a MMO”
Let’s divide the mesmer damage by the amount of clones he has!
yay

Domino.1359:

ragnarokda.1805:

How does condi engi out perform in group fights compared to a trap survival ranger?
And why are rangers widely considered to be one of the best 1v1 classes in sPVP?

Exclude taunt. It isn’t as large as a factor as apparently 90% of the community thinks it is.

I’m genuinely curious because I’m not really well versed with engi and I rarely lose 1v1.

No hostility here, btw. I just want more information.

I main an engi spvp but love my ranger more, so I can shed a little light on this.
I (engi) can move quicker between points/fights and escape more easily than a trap ranger with elixir S/stealth. The engi condi build also doesn’t need to stand on top of the trap or rely on the traps and still deal massive cleave (more so than a trap). If I take mortar kit I have group AOE buffs and debuffs along with orbital strike which is a blast finisher.
Like others have said, a ranger is def powerful, especially those condi burst trap rangers, they really give me tough time, but other classes can do it better.

Ah yeah probably the only part i hate about ranger is that we don’t seem to have easy access to movement skills without giving up utility. I also wasn’t even considering mortar as condi but that doesn’t make sense.

Thanks pal

Playing as condi ranger myself, right now with sb/s/d build, and its pretty competitive against many builds, even against some cele d/d ele’s 1v1. To be honest, I think the problem many players have with Rangers, are their love for using LB even in short melee combat distances. I’ve played against many such rangers, and i have no doubt, that in their mind there is something wrong with the class, and not in the way they are playing it. On the other side, i’ve played against many good rangers, who knows how to handle their weapon sets and utilities and they can kill you fairly quickly by going with the right rotations. The ranger while not bringing anything more on the table that other classes do (to some extent fairly better, i must confess), rangers are still very much competitive, if played right.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

…On the other side, i’ve played against many good rangers, who knows how to handle their weapon sets and utilities and they can kill you fairly quickly by going with the right rotations…

Ranger doesn’t really have rotations, each skill has a opportunity and utility cost and making use of them at the correct times is what makes a Ranger good.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

MirrorOfNature.4279:

…On the other side, i’ve played against many good rangers, who knows how to handle their weapon sets and utilities and they can kill you fairly quickly by going with the right rotations…

Ranger doesn’t really have rotations, each skill has a opportunity and utility cost and making use of them at the correct times is what makes a Ranger good.

Agreed.

You wanna see rotations? look at dd ele… that is rotations…. ranger has nothing like that…

The skills on our weapon sets are not well designed… (in terms of synergy)

look at Shortbow…. all you do is spam auto attack and 2,4 on CD….you don’t need to properly chain anything in most of our weapons…

Lb you can do Lb 4 into rapid fire… thats about the only synergy there…

GS has 1 rotation – swoop into hilt bash into maul… than block if you need to.

Our 1h wep sets are the least synergy…..nothing to chain at all… just spam your condis off cooldown…. for sword….spam auto attack and use 3 at will offcooldown…2 is mostly utility…

SkiTz.4590:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

MirrorOfNature.4279:

…On the other side, i’ve played against many good rangers, who knows how to handle their weapon sets and utilities and they can kill you fairly quickly by going with the right rotations…

Ranger doesn’t really have rotations, each skill has a opportunity and utility cost and making use of them at the correct times is what makes a Ranger good.

Agreed.

You wanna see rotations? look at dd ele… that is rotations…. ranger has nothing like that…

The skills on our weapon sets are not well designed… (in terms of synergy)

look at Shortbow…. all you do is spam auto attack and 2,4 on CD….you don’t need to properly chain anything in most of our weapons…

Lb you can do Lb 4 into rapid fire… thats about the only synergy there…

GS has 1 rotation – swoop into hilt bash into maul… than block if you need to.

Our 1h wep sets are the least synergy…..nothing to chain at all… just spam your condis off cooldown…. for sword….spam auto attack and use 3 at will offcooldown…2 is mostly utility…

Ok, maybe rotation wasn’t the proper term to use, but a good ranger do make a good use of his skills, by timing them properly. For example s/d weapon set has a lot evade, and condi deliver – eg. bleeding, poison, cripple. Shortbow can deliver cripple and bleeding and also can interrupt an enemies. All of this can make a certain ranger who make a good use of all this a very dangerous enemy in sPvP.
I personally don’t have a good observation on the LB builds, as i rarely use one myself.