why was Healing Spring turned to Trap?

why was Healing Spring turned to Trap?

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

Why was healing spring turned into a Trap skill?

It kind of ruined the skill.

is there no way to revert back the change?

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

Because developers were classifying all the skills with no category.
And this forum was just kind of over-flooded by people who wanted Healing Spring to become a trap.

So thinking that we received just what vast majority asked for – I don’t see any slightest possibility of getting our good Healing Spring back.

The skill is not that bad. It’s definitely twice as buggy and twice as clunky as it ever was… But it has it’s uses. Having it on 24sec CD and being able to pre-set it has it’s pros.

If you are able to have 1 set and your CD refreshes, you are able to cleanse 12 condis in 10 seconds in AoE. That’s not half bad. You’ll get into a situation like this only once out of 10 times… But hey, we got what we wanted right?

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: Quarktastic.1027

Quarktastic.1027

Because developers were classifying all the skills with no category.
And this forum was just kind of over-flooded by people who wanted Healing Spring to become a trap.

So thinking that we received just what vast majority asked for – I don’t see any slightest possibility of getting our good Healing Spring back.

The skill is not that bad. It’s definitely twice as buggy and twice as clunky as it ever was… But it has it’s uses. Having it on 24sec CD and being able to pre-set it has it’s pros.

If you are able to have 1 set and your CD refreshes, you are able to cleanse 12 condis in 10 seconds in AoE. That’s not half bad. You’ll get into a situation like this only once out of 10 times… But hey, we got what we wanted right?

My problem with it is the arming time. Too many times have I placed my healing spring, and tried to blast/leap it only for nothing to happen, because I didn’t wait long enough for the water field to pop up.

Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690

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Posted by: Ofir.2405

Ofir.2405

AN team needs to bring back (exactly) the same HS skill we had but just classify it as a trap skill( so it will still benift from traits that regard traps). No one – not rangers or other players such as enemy players – complained about HS skill but AN ruined this skill.

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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

Because developers were classifying all the skills with no category.
And this forum was just kind of over-flooded by people who wanted Healing Spring to become a trap.

So thinking that we received just what vast majority asked for – I don’t see any slightest possibility of getting our good Healing Spring back.

The skill is not that bad. It’s definitely twice as buggy and twice as clunky as it ever was… But it has it’s uses. Having it on 24sec CD and being able to pre-set it has it’s pros.

If you are able to have 1 set and your CD refreshes, you are able to cleanse 12 condis in 10 seconds in AoE. That’s not half bad. You’ll get into a situation like this only once out of 10 times… But hey, we got what we wanted right?

I think when people were asking for it to be classified as a trap they were hoping for the benefit of pre patch traps. Ground targeted, lower cooldown, stealth with trapper runes, etc.
How they managed to turn a perfectly viable heal into the broken mess it is now is astounding. They should just revert the way it functioned to pre patch and label it a trap.

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

I think when people were asking for it to be classified as a trap they were hoping for the benefit of pre patch traps. Ground targeted, lower cooldown, stealth with trapper runes, etc.
How they managed to turn a perfectly viable heal into the broken mess it is now is astounding. They should just revert the way it functioned to pre patch and label it a trap.

Everyone on forum knows that we are not Elementalists, nor warriors. It was totally blindfolded to expect nothing but benefits without any drawbacks of the category with the change.
It was obvious the trap would become horrible after being turned into a trap system just because it would loose it’s instant benefits (arming time was declared long time before the update).

I was even against having it on ranged use because it would take more time to trigger (1 bonus click and travel time) which would make it worse for former usage.
As a realist, I wished for having the same functionality, but got disappointed to be outwished by people who wanted to have it overpowered (even though it’s still one of the best healing mechanics in the game with AoE cleanse and 10sec water field)

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

I seriously doubt what people “wished” for had any effect on Anet’s decision making in this case. Healing Spring was a trap skill in the first game, they talked about it on the first stream etc etc. I think it was a natural choice they would have went with either way.

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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

I think when people were asking for it to be classified as a trap they were hoping for the benefit of pre patch traps. Ground targeted, lower cooldown, stealth with trapper runes, etc.
How they managed to turn a perfectly viable heal into the broken mess it is now is astounding. They should just revert the way it functioned to pre patch and label it a trap.

Everyone on forum knows that we are not Elementalists, nor warriors. It was totally blindfolded to expect nothing but benefits without any drawbacks of the category with the change.
It was obvious the trap would become horrible after being turned into a trap system just because it would loose it’s instant benefits (arming time was declared long time before the update).

I was even against having it on ranged use because it would take more time to trigger (1 bonus click and travel time) which would make it worse for former usage.
As a realist, I wished for having the same functionality, but got disappointed to be outwished by people who wanted to have it overpowered (even though it’s still one of the best healing mechanics in the game with AoE cleanse and 10sec water field)

So many rangers seem to have the abused spouse syndrome and are completely convinced that we don’t deserve nice things. The world won’t end if we get a straight buff without something being nerfed in exchange.

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

So many rangers seem to have the abused spouse syndrome and are completely convinced that we don’t deserve nice things. The world won’t end if we get a straight buff without something being nerfed in exchange.

I’m a realist.
We had spike trap on reviving an ally ever since release. A meaningless trap until the update where it became an AoE knockdown.
What happened? We had it replaced with Search and Rescue.

So as a realist, let me ask you this.
Will you ask for a nice thing when you know you won’t get any, while risking the ability would become useless?
I wouldn’t and I never do.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

So many rangers seem to have the abused spouse syndrome and are completely convinced that we don’t deserve nice things. The world won’t end if we get a straight buff without something being nerfed in exchange.

I’m a realist.
We had spike trap on reviving an ally ever since release. A meaningless trap until the update where it became an AoE knockdown.
What happened? We had it replaced with Search and Rescue.

So as a realist, let me ask you this.
Will you ask for a nice thing when you know you won’t get any, while risking the ability would become useless?
I wouldn’t and I never do.

The way I see it is if more rangers caused an uproar about stupid changes like this then they would pay more attention to the class and fix some of the problems. History has shown the best way to get a response from anet is to throw a huge kitten fit and blow the problem out of proportion, look at the HoT pre purchase, color commander tags, etc. for an example.

Every time they make a stupid change to rangers we have a bunch of people saying “well maybe it will get better soon…. since they are paying attention to us maybe they will fix some of the bugs that have been plaguing the class for months…” or “I know every other class has access to x ability but rangers shouldn’t have that because we don’t want the classes to be the same. It’s perfectly reasonable for us to be at a disadvantage as long as it makes us different.”

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

@Puck
I believe that the hundreds of complaints about the bugs (Healing Spring included) are enough of an uproar, aren’t they?

We are close to only class with such complex, clear and diligent threads about what needs to be changed and what must be fixed on our class.
And there are miles of walls of text out there in the bug forum section (some ignored, some fixed), as well as the ones in our class section.

Mentioning the same problems over and over again is pointless. Especially this one about healing spring which is intended just like Sword AA chain.
The bug about HS has already been mentioned in 4 threads already, as far as I know. The delay is something the community had to expect when Developers made it a trap. It has it’s pros, it has it’s cons.

EDIT: I can bet on my shoes that if the change got reverted, threads about how people were fine with it and they could pre-set it and how it was awesome would appear.
Sheer experience.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)

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Posted by: Wondrouswall.7169

Wondrouswall.7169

Really, a lot of Rangers just wanted the benefits of Healing Spring classified as a trap. Even when the update hit, it was fine since it had the classification and an arming time, which was not bad.

Then another update hit so that Healing Spring would automatically trigger when the player or ally stepped into it below 100% health. When that happened, it stopped healing the pet and possibly an oversight of splitting the heal so setting a trap earlier had a healing portion as well like the DH Healing trap.

Either way, it’s bugged, it’s somewhat broken, and it’s a part of the Ranger. I can’t hold too much on Anet, especially Ireno aka “Kui” since he’s got both Ranger and Engineer. Combined, he’s got the largest pile of bugs, not to mention he’s also working with the other designers on the Elite Specs and whatever is on his and the other programmers plates for Heart of Thorns.

Report once, keep bumping it, be polite, and hope they’ll get back to it. Sounds like a bit much, even from me, one that can be just as jaded as the next person about things wrong about Rangers, but oh well. Cheers, anyway!

PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.

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Posted by: Ofir.2405

Ofir.2405

@Puck
I believe that the hundreds of complaints about the bugs (Healing Spring included) are enough of an uproar, aren’t they?

We are close to only class with such complex, clear and diligent threads about what needs to be changed and what must be fixed on our class.
And there are miles of walls of text out there in the bug forum section (some ignored, some fixed), as well as the ones in our class section.

Mentioning the same problems over and over again is pointless. Especially this one about healing spring which is intended just like Sword AA chain.
The bug about HS has already been mentioned in 4 threads already, as far as I know. The delay is something the community had to expect when Developers made it a trap. It has it’s pros, it has it’s cons.

EDIT: I can bet on my shoes that if the change got reverted, threads about how people were fine with it and they could pre-set it and how it was awesome would appear.
Sheer experience.

I have to disagree with you. A delay like this is never something to be expected, and especially not to be ok with. Almost 2 months past since the patch that made this a bug and we havent seen even a response about it. Even though we had a bug fix patch after the specializations patch, it didnt even fixed any of the really problematic bugs of ranger. I dont understand why AN team doesnt see this as a major bug that need to be fixed before other stuff (and I am almost certain it doesnt take much effort since we just want the old skill back). This just goes to show how much AN devs cares about balance and bugs in this game , especially when it comes to rangers.

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

@Ofir
I’m not fine with the delay, either.
But I can tell it’s intended. I’ve had my years of game-time and logical coding behind programming development to say this.

The 1st phase of coding is not about “balance” or “quality of life”. It’s whether it makes sense or not. That’s the only reasoning behind Pet Swap traits “nerfs” that never were nerfs in the 1st place, but bugfixes because they didn’t make sense in their former functionality (an ability with CD of 30 seconds is illogical to be used every 16etc).

The same now goes with Healing Spring. Do we like it? No. Does it make sense? Yes. What can we do about it?
EXPLAIN why it should be changed. Because if the only reason is “we don’t like it” then it’s as good as writing poetry. If you feel like it – create a topic about Healing Spring, why should it be illogically the only trap that doesn’t work like a trap, provide analysis and we can talk.

I’m kinda lazy to do it since I don’t really use HS in any other build than bunkering, and there I don’t find it much of a problem.
I die to my Sword and GS leaps that cause me to get stunlocked in immobilize a billion times more often than having Healing spring on a delay of half a second.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)

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Posted by: Archon.6480

Archon.6480

HS used to be great. I used it since launch in almost every build, until they turned it into a trash trap skill. Now its great for getting yourself downed. Use TU or Heal as One, both are vastly superior. I don’t even use it in PvE anymore. It’s better than water spirit… maybe.

Jade Quarry – Esparie
Illustrious Exhausted Primordial Legendary Druid, and Mesmer for fun
PvE | PvP (1500)| WvW | Fractals | Dungeons

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Posted by: Ofir.2405

Ofir.2405

@Ofir
I’m not fine with the delay, either.
But I can tell it’s intended. I’ve had my years of game-time and logical coding behind programming development to say this.

The 1st phase of coding is not about “balance” or “quality of life”. It’s whether it makes sense or not. That’s the only reasoning behind Pet Swap traits “nerfs” that never were nerfs in the 1st place, but bugfixes because they didn’t make sense in their former functionality (an ability with CD of 30 seconds is illogical to be used every 16etc).

The same now goes with Healing Spring. Do we like it? No. Does it make sense? Yes. What can we do about it?
EXPLAIN why it should be changed. Because if the only reason is “we don’t like it” then it’s as good as writing poetry. If you feel like it – create a topic about Healing Spring, why should it be illogically the only trap that doesn’t work like a trap, provide analysis and we can talk.

I’m kinda lazy to do it since I don’t really use HS in any other build than bunkering, and there I don’t find it much of a problem.
I die to my Sword and GS leaps that cause me to get stunlocked in immobilize a billion times more often than having Healing spring on a delay of half a second.

But we dont just say “we dont like it” , we bring facts about it being bugged. The HS skill sometimes just doesnt heal you or your pets even if you go out and in it. It just doesnt work properly, if not working at all. The fact that AN team decided to put the word “Trap” next to the skill name doesnt justify the skill not working as intended. A trap should work always when you stand on it, not when you leave it then enter then leave then enter. I agree with you that the arming time of the skill isnt a bug and its more of a convenience matter but I still think the skill should be the same way it used to be. I dont care if I wont get the traits regarding traps for this skill but I am sure that the MAJORITY wants this skill to be fixed.

Oh and by the way there is a bug thread for rangers in this forum, and this skill as well as the immobilize bug you are talking about, are mentioned in there several times. But still no fix to be find.

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Posted by: Ehecatl.9172

Ehecatl.9172

As one of the rangers who was in favor of Healing Spring becoming a trap I feel I should point out that the way Anet implemented the change is NOT consistent with what was being asked for.

What I asked for was that Healing Spring could be set down like a trap before hand and then triggered later when activating it. So far that is how it works, but with the weird addition of the heal and the condition cleanse being separated. So instead of dodge rolling back into the spring for a pre-set heal and condi cleanse mid-fight I just get the condi cleanse, and instead of curing conditions and THEN healing me it does the reverse when I try to use it as an emergency heal.

This isn’t the functionality I asked for. I expected the numbers to be tweaked to balance the chance of a double heal if you set your Healing Spring up before hand, but didn’t expect them to split the functionality making such a set up impossible while still adding the arming time.

Blaming this change on the people who asked for it is a lot like blaming the guy who got ripped off by a used car salesman for not expecting to get ripped off.

That being said it’s still a solid heal skill. Once the bugs are fixed it may even be a great heal skill. We just have to hope those bugs get fixed sooner rather than later.

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

But we dont just say “we dont like it” , we bring facts about it being bugged. The HS skill sometimes just doesnt heal you or your pets even if you go out and in it. It just doesnt work properly, if not working at all. The fact that AN team decided to put the word “Trap” next to the skill name doesnt justify the skill not working as intended. A trap should work always when you stand on it, not when you leave it then enter then leave then enter. I agree with you that the arming time of the skill isnt a bug and its more of a convenience matter but I still think the skill should be the same way it used to be. I dont care if I wont get the traits regarding traps for this skill but I am sure that the MAJORITY wants this skill to be fixed.

Oh and by the way there is a bug thread for rangers in this forum, and this skill as well as the immobilize bug you are talking about, are mentioned in there several times. But still no fix to be find.

The main topic of this thread is the delay of the “trap” mechanic.
Which is intended.
The OP doesn’t include any of the real bugs that no one is fine with and we have been bringing them up ever since they appeared.

We all want the skill to be fixed. But the activation being delayed has nothing to do with the bugs.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

I don’t know where this ‘not what we asked for’ is coming from, I was in the threads where people were saying it should be a trap telling them this is exactly what would happen and they were arguing that was fine.

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Posted by: TJV.6239

TJV.6239

Because developers were classifying all the skills with no category.
And this forum was just kind of over-flooded by people who wanted Healing Spring to become a trap.

So thinking that we received just what vast majority asked for – I don’t see any slightest possibility of getting our good Healing Spring back.

The skill is not that bad. It’s definitely twice as buggy and twice as clunky as it ever was… But it has it’s uses. Having it on 24sec CD and being able to pre-set it has it’s pros.

If you are able to have 1 set and your CD refreshes, you are able to cleanse 12 condis in 10 seconds in AoE. That’s not half bad. You’ll get into a situation like this only once out of 10 times… But hey, we got what we wanted right?

Healing Spring was a trap in Guild Wars 1 too. Also, it means they can give it a classification to benefit from traits.

Shalom
Tyler Joe

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Posted by: Maliken.5630

Maliken.5630

I think, if the bugs would be solved then maybe it does have its uses. Also, before the patch the skill use time was 0,5 second. Now its that + 0,5 seconds arming time wich is just doubling the activation time. For a skill that is mostly used to cleanse conditions, this is not acceptable. Remove the first 0,5 second and make the ranger instantly place this trap. Then he still has to wait 0,5 second for his spring to pop up.

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Posted by: Solandri.9640

Solandri.9640

We had spike trap on reviving an ally ever since release. A meaningless trap until the update where it became an AoE knockdown.
What happened? We had it replaced with Search and Rescue.

What’s even worse is that everyone else’s +10% revive speed trait somehow improves their effectiveness. They gain feedback, drop a well of blood, gain feedback, or an aura, or give AOE might, etc. Ours decreases our effectiveness by pulling our pet off of whatever we had it doing.

Blaming this change on the people who asked for it is a lot like blaming the guy who got ripped off by a used car salesman for not expecting to get ripped off.

There’s a saying in Engineering – if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Or in less absolute terms, if something is working fine, you should be extremely wary of tinkering with it to try to improve it. Concentrate on fixing the broken stuff first, before you risk breaking something that’s already working fine.

Let this be a lesson to all of you asking for tweaks to skills and abilities which already work pretty well. If your car is already running pretty well, don’t go to a used car dealer looking to replace it not expecting to get ripped off.

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Posted by: Vukorep.3081

Vukorep.3081

As mentioned they needed to categorize skills with out any type.
Healing spring was a trap in gw1 so there ya go.

Ive been using it for a bit now and i dont really have any problems with it…
It activates just as “instantly” as it used to except it doesnt if allies with full health enter it.
Which imo isnt a bad thing, why would you want your healing skill to activate on a full health ally?

Also pre setting numerous healing springs.

Also,its not a fire field…i dont know why would you want to have a water field right before you enter a fight

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Posted by: Ofir.2405

Ofir.2405

As mentioned they needed to categorize skills with out any type.
Healing spring was a trap in gw1 so there ya go.

Ive been using it for a bit now and i dont really have any problems with it…
It activates just as “instantly” as it used to except it doesnt if allies with full health enter it.
Which imo isnt a bad thing, why would you want your healing skill to activate on a full health ally?

Also pre setting numerous healing springs.

Also,its not a fire field…i dont know why would you want to have a water field right before you enter a fight

What you talked about isnt the all problem about this skill. The bugs of this skill as mentioned in the ranger bugs thread:
“Healing Spring does not heal allies/pets.
Healing Spring can be placed up to 4 times.
Healing Spring does not activate when used at full health and losing health while inside the trigger area. Player must exit then re-enter the trap area to activate.”
Notice the last sentence – players need to exit the skill and then enter again in order to get the healing , and as far as I know this skill doesnt heal allies or pets. I am pretty sure thats not how a trap skill supposed to work (once you entered the trap it should keep working instead of reactivating only if you re-enter it). So yeah this skill is bugged and its not as perfect as you(and other people) keep trying to prove.

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Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

@Ofir
This skill is actually really good. Or better said – should be and is intended to be.
The skill and it’s proposed functionality is at it’s finest.

The fact that it is bugged as hell doesn’t change the one that the skill would be powerful if it got fixed. The topic of the thread is about it’s functionality – that with all due respect – is not that bad.

I liked the former version better, but that doesn’t change anything about it still being a fine healing skill. Getting it buffed is strange.
We need to get it fixed, which again, has absolutely zero connection to what this topic tries to discuss.

To get you an overview of what’s going on.
Is the trap okay? No.
Is it intended to be okay? Yes.
Does being bugged mean the skill needs changes? No. It needs fixing. A lot of it.
Nothing more and Nothing less.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

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Posted by: Ofir.2405

Ofir.2405

@Ofir
This skill is actually really good. Or better said – should be and is intended to be.
The skill and it’s proposed functionality is at it’s finest.

The fact that it is bugged as hell doesn’t change the one that the skill would be powerful if it got fixed. The topic of the thread is about it’s functionality – that with all due respect – is not that bad.

I liked the former version better, but that doesn’t change anything about it still being a fine healing skill. Getting it buffed is strange.
We need to get it fixed, which again, has absolutely zero connection to what this topic tries to discuss.

To get you an overview of what’s going on.
Is the trap okay? No.
Is it intended to be okay? Yes.
Does being bugged mean the skill needs changes? No. It needs fixing. A lot of it.
Nothing more and Nothing less.

Yeah I know this skill is intended to work, But you cant really enjoy the skill if its bugged thart much. I get what you saying, I thought the OP talked more about the bugs of this skill rather than the functionality of it.But then again you cant say this skill works well or “I dont have any problem with it” when it have lots of bugs. Imo I think people need first to focus on the bugs of this skill and once they are fixed its alot easier to focus on the actual skill it self. A skill cant be tested to it fullest while being bugged.