8 Missing Skills
Absolutely. The lack of utility choice is just crippling to Rev’s depth as a class compared to all the others. I really wanted to like this class and atm it’s very difficult to get excited about because of the lack of choices when making a build.
Additionally, they could allow swapping in racial/deluxe skills so Rev isn’t the only class that randomly can’t use those.
How about revenant a underwater weapons? Im really curious what will happen with those…
the whole point of the revenant is that you don’t choose utility skills but you choose the legend set, and to make up for that you get 10 skills instead of 5. /thread
And I don’t really see much lack of choice here. It’s not like every class has only useful skills by the way, 50% of them are unused.
If they allow you to choose skills then there is no point in having 2 legends (people would just camp one of them), energy and so on.
there are many classes out there with customizable utility skills.
the whole point of the revenant is that you don’t choose utility skills but you choose the legend set, and to make up for that you get 10 skills instead of 5. /thread
And I don’t really see much lack of choice here. It’s not like every class has only useful skills by the way, 50% of them are unused.If they allow you to choose skills then there is no point in having 2 legends (people would just camp one of them), energy and so on.
there are many classes out there with customizable utility skills.
While i agree with you to an extent, this also raises the following problem.
If an ability becomes broken during a patch, other classes can simply slot it out for another utility in the meantime, revenants will not have that luxury.
Also currently there are some utilities that are just plain bad and not worth using at all, this further limits the revenants usefulness in certain situations.
For example, a Guardian in fractals, not needing reflects on this fight? Swap out one utility for another. Simple as that.
The revenant however would have to swap an entire legend, thus limiting his overall usefulness.
I’ll show you a few abilities which (at the moment) i feel are pretty useless in a PvE setting:
Riposting Shadows looks good on paper, but in a PvE setting, it’s just not needed. I’m not saying it’s a bad ability, it’s not, it’s great, but there’s just not much room for it in PvE because 2 dodges should be enough, as you have other mechanics to prevent damage as well from other classes, meaning for most fights you could swap this for another utility.
Phase Traversal Again, suffers the same way Riposting Shadows does, it’s just not needed in PvE, we have a gap closer with axe, and that’s more than sufficient, how many times are you running PvE and slotting every gap closer you possibly can? The only class i can think that actually goes out of their way to slot a gap closer is Mesmer with Blink for the stunbreak. Something that i would personally rather slot out for something else.
Banish Enchantment has very few situations where it will actually warrant some use, it’s situational at best, again, something i’d rather slot out most of the time.
Unyielding Anguish This one should be pretty obvious, Revenants are going to get a lot of hate in any group play if they use this ability. It’s worse than the Rangers knockback ability because it’s spammable so long as you have the energy for it.
Forced Engagement Another big one, costs 50 energy, does a measly taunt and slow for a few seconds, that’s it, it’s just not worth the 50 energy at all, you’re better off conserving that energy for something else.
I haven’t mentioned any Elite skills as most elites are pretty situational anyway and only warrant a use in certain situations, but all of the Revenants elites are pretty well done, even if some are fairly underpowered, they all warrant some use, jade winds for example is very strong and incredibly fun to use. Malyx’s Elite was well thought out by throwing the extra stats onto it, so even if there aren’t many conditions going out, you still gain some benefit.
Ventari was left out as well as i feel all of it’s utilities are fairly useful, it has projectile destruction, healing and condition removal all on one, it’s just a shame that if you only want one, you have to take the others as well, the heal is a bit crap though, not a fan of it being tied to a gimmick.
Warrior 80 | Guardian 80 | Ranger 80 | Engineer 80 |
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
I find every single Shiro skill useful in pve (expecially Riposting Shadows and Phase Traversal, LOL, are we kidding? The first is a stun breaker and the other one is a leap). The only skill I find useless among all the skills we have is Jalis taunt, but only because it costs too much.
And if you don’t find them useful (lol) then just swap Shiro with another legend. We have )soon) 5 of them, I’m sure you’ll find something you like. Just as with utility skills.
(edited by Kidel.2057)
I find every single Shiro skill useful in pve (expecially Riposting Shadows and Phase Traversal, LOL, are we kidding? The first is a stun breaker and the other one is a leap). The only skill I find useless among all the skills we have is Jalis taunt, but only because it costs too much.
And if you don’t find them useful (lol) then just swap Shiro with another legend. We have )soon) 5 of them, I’m sure you’ll find something you like. Just as with utility skills.
You’re missing the point..
Stun breaks aren’t needed if you have a guardian that knows when and how to use Stand your ground, which i normally always do in a group setup.
A leap finisher is null, i manage just fine without one on my warrior, the only ever gap closer i actually ever need to use in combat is whirlwind, rush i only ever seem to use OOC for the speed, everytime I’m using it in combat it’s for a quick burst. So Axe’s teleport will be just fine for me there.
Swapping to another Legend is a possibility, but then I’m still left with some utilities that i potentially will not need at all.
You’re missing the point entirely, every class but the revenant can swap out utilities for each individual fight, a revenant can’t do that.
Need projectile destruction? Here you go, hope you enjoy the other 2 utilities though that could be potentially useless for this fight, oh, you also give up your heal for pittance and you now have to micromanage a god awful gimmick.
Need stability? Here you go, have fun with a utility you’ll never use though because it costs 50 energy, barely lasts long enough to warrant the cost, and an ability that you might as well not use at all because the hammers will just completely rotate around the NPC if it’s not got a huge hitbox.
Going through your post history, i see where you feel there’s a problem.
People aren’t asking for the ability to have Malyx utilities with Shiro, we’re asking for some universal utilities that can be used with all legends or give each legend an additional 2 utilities that can be swapped out for what they currently have, restricted to legends.
This will put the revenant on par with every other class having 20 utilities base, and it will at least offer SOME customization while still remaining to the theme of utilities being locked to certain legends.
Warrior 80 | Guardian 80 | Ranger 80 | Engineer 80 |
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
(edited by JoshuaRAWR.4653)
I find every single Shiro skill useful in pve (expecially Riposting Shadows and Phase Traversal, LOL, are we kidding? The first is a stun breaker and the other one is a leap). The only skill I find useless among all the skills we have is Jalis taunt, but only because it costs too much.
And if you don’t find them useful (lol) then just swap Shiro with another legend. We have )soon) 5 of them, I’m sure you’ll find something you like. Just as with utility skills.
Found a “Situation” where this came in handy in WvW. Enemy player was rushing for the door, got it off just before he hit the portal and he turned to attack… Needless to say he didn’t make it inside.
Skill is very situational as the game stands right now however.
Cold Beerdrinker
PB Officer
NSP
PB Officer
NSP
I find every single Shiro skill useful in pve (expecially Riposting Shadows and Phase Traversal, LOL, are we kidding? The first is a stun breaker and the other one is a leap). The only skill I find useless among all the skills we have is Jalis taunt, but only because it costs too much.
And if you don’t find them useful (lol) then just swap Shiro with another legend. We have )soon) 5 of them, I’m sure you’ll find something you like. Just as with utility skills.
Found a “Situation” where this came in handy in WvW. Enemy player was rushing for the door, got it off just before he hit the portal and he turned to attack… Needless to say he didn’t make it inside.
Skill is very situational as the game stands right now however.
Jalis taunt felt really strong everytime I used it. Thing is I would never use it because it cost 50 energy. So you can’t really ever use it from out of combat because your now sitting at 0 energy. Also if your in combat you can not really use it till you get around 80+ energy.
the whole point of the revenant is that you don’t choose utility skills but you choose the legend set, and to make up for that you get 10 skills instead of 5. /thread
And I don’t really see much lack of choice here. It’s not like every class has only useful skills by the way, 50% of them are unused.If they allow you to choose skills then there is no point in having 2 legends (people would just camp one of them), energy and so on.
there are many classes out there with customizable utility skills.
While I agree that the legend your using should limit utilities a bit I do think they could expand the utilities each has by at least 2 and let the player decide which 3 of the 5 they use.
And I don’t really see much lack of choice here. It’s not like every class has only useful skills by the way, 50% of them are unused.
Every other class cherry picks their favorite heal out of a pool of 2-3 playable skills (you said 50% are useless). Then they cherry pick their favorite 3 utilities out of a pool of 10. Then they cherry pick their favorite elite out of 2-3. That’s a lot of options and choosing, and guarantees 5 useful skills for the situation.
Rev picks 2 from a pool of 4, and that decides all their skills. 50% are useless? Now their 10 skills are down to 5 usable ones, which weren’t really cherry picked since they come as packages of 5. Also there’s an extra button you have to hit inbetween accessing your 5 useful skills.
Having two sets of 6-0 skills sounds like it should result in extra options and depth, and instead it’s resulting in the opposite. Giving each legend 5 utility skills is the perfect balance for providing choices, build depth, and still restricting each legend to skills of its theme. Not to mention, it’s kind of the precedent set with every other class.
Edit: grammar
(edited by pantsburgh.4902)
what’s the point of picking Jalis if you can choose his same heal on Shiro? That’s just an example. Picking skills would just make legends useless. You’re simply saying that you don’t like Revenant’s mechanic, and you’re free to do it. However don’t ask to ruin the class please.
what’s the point of picking Jalis if you can choose his same heal on Shiro? That’s just an example. Picking skills would just make legends useless. You’re simply saying that you don’t like Revenant’s mechanic, and you’re free to do it. However don’t ask to ruin the class please.
That’s not what anyone is suggesting.
Jalis has a pool of 5 Jalis-only utilities. Choose 3 from that pool of 5. No other legend can choose from those 5 utilities. The heal and elite are still locked to 1 each.
I’d add to that my opinion that the racial/deluxe skills should be options too.
I agree. The legends should have AT THE LEAST one more utility skill each.
Players Killing Players [PVP] – Fort Aspenwood
Each set of utility skills are tied to a legend, which is tied to a trait line. We have 4 legends and 5 trait lines. What if we had the remaining skills (so we have the same amount of skills as the other professions) tied to the invocation trait line (the one without legend)? This skills would be usable in any legend, so we had a bit more customization, without losing the flavor of the rev. All we had to do was choose the skill we wanted to equip, among the legend ones, these “free skills” and the racials. Make them be somewhat “general Rev abilities” like blasting something with mists, or become mist or sth like that.
what’s the point of picking Jalis if you can choose his same heal on Shiro? That’s just an example. Picking skills would just make legends useless. You’re simply saying that you don’t like Revenant’s mechanic, and you’re free to do it. However don’t ask to ruin the class please.
Going through your post history, i see where you feel there’s a problem.
People aren’t asking for the ability to have Malyx utilities with Shiro, we’re asking for some universal utilities that can be used with all legends or give each legend an additional 2 utilities that can be swapped out for what they currently have, restricted to legends.
This will put the revenant on par with every other class having 20 utilities base, and it will at least offer SOME customization while still remaining to the theme of utilities being locked to certain legends.
Warrior 80 | Guardian 80 | Ranger 80 | Engineer 80 |
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
We really need more customization, we are the only class that doesn’t have any
I really agree with Joshua, this needs to be in the game, let’s see it from this point.
Elementalists have weapon skills for every attunement,they have 4 attunements with 5 skills each AND now to the right side of the skill bar, what do you see??? exactly MANY sets of useful utility skills to choose from… sooo how exactly would this implementation destroy the revenant ’’class’’? Also,kidel if people have good and useful suggestion please don’t act stupid and try to change their mind, they are just trying to help others and the devs with new/better ideas, right?
Each set of utility skills are tied to a legend, which is tied to a trait line. We have 4 legends and 5 trait lines. What if we had the remaining skills (so we have the same amount of skills as the other professions) tied to the invocation trait line (the one without legend)? This skills would be usable in any legend, so we had a bit more customization, without losing the flavor of the rev. All we had to do was choose the skill we wanted to equip, among the legend ones, these “free skills” and the racials. Make them be somewhat “general Rev abilities” like blasting something with mists, or become mist or sth like that.
Or perhaps a couple “general utilities” that are glyph-like skills that change the flavor of the skill depending on what legend you put them on, but could be slotted on just one legend if you wanted.
For example:
Glyph of swirling mists: Create a Vortex of Mists around you putting boon on allies and conditions on enemies. Changes for each depending on equipped legend: Jalis: protection & weakness . Shiro: might and Vuln. Malix: resistance and bleed. Ventari: regen and blind
Glyph of Porting: Shadowstep to target and Jalis: knock down, Shiro: strike enemy with % crit chance, Malix: Copy conditions, Ventari: port tablet to location and heal.
edit: spelling/grammar
Players Killing Players [PVP] – Fort Aspenwood
There is literally not a single reason why each legend shouldn’t be able to have more than just three utility skills. I agree 100% with the fact that they should have more. It’d add so much more depth to the class. Why should Revenants be stuck with skills they don’t even want to use? I played a carrion, demon/dwarf Revenant. I loved it except for Vengeful Hammers. In my build it wasn’t the most spectacular skill so I rarely used it.
… I still want tengu.
Yeah I think all Anet needs to do now, to polish the Revenant, is give them more utility skills that we can choose from (not be forced into using), and give them a 25% passive movement signet for one of their utilities. I had to put superior runes of speed on my Revenant in the BETA just so I could keep up with the zerg in Edge of the Mists, ultimately forcing me to sacrifice runes I would have preferred to use, like eagle, infiltration, or wurm.
As it is, I feel so limited in terms of what I am allowed to use with the Rev. Sure I can choose Hammer and Sword/Axe for my weapons, but I literally have no say in my utilities, and some of them I don’t even use because I don’t need them or they require too much valuable energy. It would be nice to have utilities that we could choose from that aren’t legend-specific. Utilities don’t HAVE to be tied to a certain legend, they can just be tied to said class.
There are so many possibilities with utilities for Rev.
Forever a supporter of more male skimpy armor
(edited by Zaoda.1653)
I agree 100%, the class still feels incomplete with the lack of customization. Class feels too simple and lacks customizable depth.
Two ways this could be fixed:
1. Rev gets a set of core utilities that can be swapped for any legends utilities.(racials possibly included)
2. Each legend gets more utilities to choose from.
Or hopefully both XD
Stun breaks aren’t needed if you have a guardian that knows when and how to use Stand your ground, which i normally always do in a group setup.
This is bad thinking IMO. The game is designed around the notion of not needing another class to do things for you, hence the old “no dedicated healer class” that they bring up all the time. The Revenant’s stun break is useful to a Revenant because not every group has a Guardian and not every Guardian uses that skill.
Need projectile destruction? Here you go, hope you enjoy the other 2 utilities though that could be potentially useless for this fight, oh, you also give up your heal for pittance and you now have to micromanage a god awful gimmick.
The issue you have in that scenario is you want a projectile blocking utility, but you’d like to keep (for example) shiro’s skills and you don’t want to have to swap to Ventari because of his other utilities/playstyle. So let’s say they added a “neutral” utility that any legend can use that blocks projectiles. What reason do you now have to swap to Ventari? Or what about if you used that “neutral” utility with Ventari, you’d have a lot of projectile blocking.
In that scenario I just don’t see how they could give you what you want without fundamentally breaking what the Revenant is (and I don’t feel the design of the Revenant is the problem). There’s definitely some utilities that need more work (Jalis taunt for example) and I’m also not a fan of Ventari’s micromanagement mini game so far, especially as GW2 can be quite fast paced . They’ve said it’ll be useful in this “challenging group content” but I don’t know if that’d make me a fan of it.
the whole point of the revenant is that you don’t choose utility skills but you choose the legend set
Yeah the point is you choose the legend and each legend has themed utilities. Adding 1 or 2 skills per legend would not take away from that the core idea of two theme bars based on your legend choices but it would allow for builds to be tweaked to meet certain situations, dropping skills for more useful ones as and when needed.
the whole point of the revenant is that you don’t choose utility skills but you choose the legend set
Yeah the point is you choose the legend and each legend has themed utilities. Adding 1 or 2 skills per legend would not take away from that the core idea of two theme bars based on your legend choices but it would allow for builds to be tweaked to meet certain situations, dropping skills for more useful ones as and when needed.
exactly, variety is always better
Like honestly, this is the most important thing for Revenant right now and I’m surprised this topic isn’t getting the attention it deserves. I wrote the same thing a couple days ago and nobody expressed any interest. I honestly don’t get it.
Edit: for clarification I mean 4 or 5 separate utilities for each legend (since there is another idea of universal utilities that I disagree with).
… I still want tengu.
(edited by Hammerguard.9834)
Like every other class have 4 utilitys of a type. So should the Revenant for each Legend imo. It might not happen before HoT since Revenant its pretty much complete (Elite spec this week, and then we know everything about Revenant)
Some day after HoT I would like to see one more skill for each Legend.
Dungeons being about how fast you clear then compared to being able to clear them makes me sad.
Guess I’ll jump on this wagon then and ask for racial/mistfire wolf skills. Following this reasoning we are the only class that can’t use them
Like every other class have 4 utilitys of a type. So should the Revenant for each Legend imo. It might not happen before HoT since Revenant its pretty much complete (Elite spec this week, and then we know everything about Revenant)
Some day after HoT I would like to see one more skill for each Legend.
Definitely. As long as it’s on the table, I’m fine with it not being available till after HoT releases.
… I still want tengu.
The legends represent different roles (tanking, damage, support, condi) and swapping legends means swapping roles (in theory). But the legends represent more than just one part. For example Jalis has control & tanky abilitys, while Shiro has mobility & (siphon)-damage skills.
I see no reason to add the 8 missing skills, to give the legends customization to balance between the sub-roles.
For example:
Shiro could get 2 dmg skills like an assassins-mark, that siphons life on each hit. Jalis could get a block or protection-skill. At this point the player chooses a more dmg or more mobility-focused Shiro. Same with tanky or control Jalis.
Like every other class have 4 utilitys of a type. So should the Revenant for each Legend imo. It might not happen before HoT since Revenant its pretty much complete (Elite spec this week, and then we know everything about Revenant)
Some day after HoT I would like to see one more skill for each Legend.Definitely. As long as it’s on the table, I’m fine with it not being available till after HoT releases.
I really hope they consider adding utilities after HoT if they didnt plan on doing it originally( but PLEASE try to do it before HoT)
i really feel for the long term health of Revenant, we need more utilities