Guild Wars 2

Right now this class doesn’t have a hint of energy management because right now if energy is spent, the only way to reasonably regen energy at a satisfactory rate is to legend swap.

Utility skills and some skills like staff skills are incredibly costly.

If autoattacks regenerated like 1/1/3 energy for an autoattack chain, energy management would feel a lot better.

Either that, or they need to remove energy costs off weaponskills and leave them for utility skills, while revising the energy costs particularly of ventari and shiro (PT nerf is horrendous, you’re basically paying your entire energy for an inferior blink/shadowstep that requires a target and has an activation delay) in particular.

Legends besides Glint and Shiro need better access to Stunbreaks. Mallyx’s leap needs to be a stunbreak (and all the utilities need a cost decrease). Mallyx should have some condi transfers/manipulation built back into it.

Energy gain on auto, thats a really nice idea, only thing is Shiro’s Phase traversal will remain at 35 energy which is not acceptable. It would also give Anet a reason to implement highly unreasonable energy costs for future additions to the class.

If they knew how to balance then this would have easily become the single greatest suggestion on the rev forums.

I think that energy cost should just be removed from weapon skills, honestly. I can deal with current energy costs if our weapon skills didn’t consume energy as well. It seems unfair to deal with energy+CD on skills while our utilities cost quite a bit of energy to use also.

Euthymias.7984:

I think that energy cost should just be removed from weapon skills, honestly. I can deal with current energy costs if our weapon skills didn’t consume energy as well. It seems unfair to deal with energy+CD on skills while our utilities cost quite a bit of energy to use also.

This. Having cd-based weapon skills works perfectly for revenant. Imo if you disregard the energy costs, rev weapon skills already seem quite balanced around cds. Having the energy cost associated with weapon skills just strikes me as an odd inconvenience.

Druids wanted easier and easier Astral Force generation and it got to the point where it was meaningless so anet nerfed 2 of the celestial avatar skills, both 50% in functionality and the one in +40% recharge.

The point of energy costs on weapon skills is to keep the recharges reasonable for what they do. You start increasing energy gain per second or start trimming it, expect even more hard nerfs with things like 5sec recharge/50% dmg CoR, 20sec/-2hits UA and 30sec/no evade surge of the mists. Or it could even be swapping legendaries goes from 50% energy to 33% energy.

If you want energy management, stop running all 5 pips with herald all the time.

Justine.6351:

Druids wanted easier and easier Astral Force generation and it got to the point where it was meaningless so anet nerfed 2 of the celestial avatar skills, both 50% in functionality and the one in +40% recharge.

The point of energy costs on weapon skills is to keep the recharges reasonable for what they do. You start increasing energy gain per second or start trimming it, expect even more hard nerfs with things like 5sec recharge/50% dmg CoR, 20sec/-2hits UA and 30sec/no evade surge of the mists. Or it could even be swapping legendaries goes from 50% energy to 33% energy.

If you want energy management, stop running all 5 pips with herald all the time.

What a dumb retort. You clearly haven’t played a warrior if you think the cd’s of our weaponskills are short to be balanced with energy. Or a thief for that matter.

In fact, daredevil initiative system is exactly an example of energy systems done right. Their Vault hits much harder than UA and is an evade as well, with a 5 sec cd if you count initiative generation time.

Nobody’s talking herald. Play shiro, waste your 50 energy in a single PT or stunbreak cast and then sit around waiting on autoattack for 10+ seconds to use anything else.

Justine.6351:

Druids wanted easier and easier Astral Force generation and it got to the point where it was meaningless so anet nerfed 2 of the celestial avatar skills, both 50% in functionality and the one in +40% recharge.

I’ll say this much – the Seeds of Life change was far too excessive considering the nature of the effect (having to stand in a very small area and wait for the trigger to get condi-clear), and that is something that should be reverted. The Lunar Impact nerf I can understand since it was a 5 second AoE Heal+Daze+Blast finisher. However, I dont think those changes were because of CAF access so much as a change towards """shaving""" Druid’s bunker capabilities.

If CAF access were an issue, they could have easily just increased the cooldown or adjust the precentages of healing ticks towards its buildup, but I digress. Revenants as they are, already have reasonable CDs on their weapon skills and heals. Some utilities also have Cooldowns (phase travel being the most notable one outside of Glint’s Facets) when they already eat chunks of energy. Glint’s upkeeps are fine, but Shiro and the rest would benefit significantly without having to worry about energy burning when doing anything beyond auto-attacks.

Besides, most other classes just swap weapons when they go on cooldown to cycle their damage and utility skills.

We swap weapons, and just like thieves the both weapons pool from the same resource, except we don’t gain back our resource at anywhere the rate thieves do.

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

Druids wanted easier and easier Astral Force generation and it got to the point where it was meaningless so anet nerfed 2 of the celestial avatar skills, both 50% in functionality and the one in +40% recharge.

The point of energy costs on weapon skills is to keep the recharges reasonable for what they do. You start increasing energy gain per second or start trimming it, expect even more hard nerfs with things like 5sec recharge/50% dmg CoR, 20sec/-2hits UA and 30sec/no evade surge of the mists. Or it could even be swapping legendaries goes from 50% energy to 33% energy.

If you want energy management, stop running all 5 pips with herald all the time.

What a dumb retort. You clearly haven’t played a warrior if you think the cd’s of our weaponskills are short to be balanced with energy. Or a thief for that matter.

In fact, daredevil initiative system is exactly an example of energy systems done right. Their Vault hits much harder than UA and is an evade as well, with a 5 sec cd if you count initiative generation time.

Nobody’s talking herald. Play shiro, waste your 50 energy in a single PT or stunbreak cast and then sit around waiting on autoattack for 10+ seconds to use anything else.

Well keep wishing. I will be waiting to say “I told you so” 6months after such a change, if it ever comes to be.

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

Druids wanted easier and easier Astral Force generation and it got to the point where it was meaningless so anet nerfed 2 of the celestial avatar skills, both 50% in functionality and the one in +40% recharge.

The point of energy costs on weapon skills is to keep the recharges reasonable for what they do. You start increasing energy gain per second or start trimming it, expect even more hard nerfs with things like 5sec recharge/50% dmg CoR, 20sec/-2hits UA and 30sec/no evade surge of the mists. Or it could even be swapping legendaries goes from 50% energy to 33% energy.

If you want energy management, stop running all 5 pips with herald all the time.

What a dumb retort. You clearly haven’t played a warrior if you think the cd’s of our weaponskills are short to be balanced with energy. Or a thief for that matter.

In fact, daredevil initiative system is exactly an example of energy systems done right. Their Vault hits much harder than UA and is an evade as well, with a 5 sec cd if you count initiative generation time.

Nobody’s talking herald. Play shiro, waste your 50 energy in a single PT or stunbreak cast and then sit around waiting on autoattack for 10+ seconds to use anything else.

Actualy this is neither about Shiro or Glint. This is about not having enough stances to account for everyone’s playstile. Revenant is a more defensive class than Guardian in the sense that we have less tools to play offensively than they do….even when you ignore their elite specialization the Dragon Hunter.

There is a long story past this point, skip to the moral of it if you don’t care about my oppinions.

For the way the energy system is…we need 1 more legend devoted exclusively to either burst or sustained damage (similar to elementalist arcane themed utilities or the warrior’s physical themed abilities) as part of Revenants core class to match the Legendary Asassin Stance – which in my opinion is about mobility, not damage of any sorts.

That way we could burst all our energy on a PT and a Grasping Shadow because we have means to regain energy and keep up with the damage. From the perspective of guys who play defensively, the problem is this, we only have 2 stun breakers for our utility slots.

This is coming from a guy who dislikes using the Legendary Dragon Stance playing stuff like Malyx/Shiro condi dps, Jallis/Malyx bunker and Ventari/Jallis bunker playing without Invocation is a kitteng nightmare. One of the situations I found myself open to the most, while playing Malyx/Shiro was being forced to stun break by swaping legends while I was outside Shiro (because I had to either boon strip a mesmer or spam Pain absorbtion) and whenever I swaped to Shiro I knew I was dead unless I finished casting Jade Winds or by some miracle I kill them with PT (the 25 or the 35 one)+AA.

When I was playing bunker Jallis/Malyx what I was doing fine but I relied to much on legend swaping to be offensive and when I got CCed while legend swaping was on cooldown I was dead.

Moral of the story: We need 1 more legend tailored around dealing dps similar to the warrior’s physical utilities or the elementalist’s arcane trait line and we need Jallis to be reworked in such a way that he has a stun breaker with a low cast time on his utilities so we can bunker without Glint.

the main problem is anet introduce new concept of energy management (like thief initiative). so thief skill cost ini – yes thief utility cost ini – no. does thief has way to manage his ini – yes with trait and utilities
so rev? skill and utilities cost nrg. no nrg management but swap legends
but utilities cd are much shorter. so basically we have sort of time cd management and hardly new concept.

and because i dont think anet gonna change it any time soon just learn your rotation and time it right like it was on full cd (your stun break use with shiro is like 30 sec) this way your nrg will do fine. in some burst moment i will use 2 utilities or 1 utility and 1 weapon skill which cost in average almost 50 nrg

so no nrg cost to skills will just ends up in higher nrg for utilities
more nrg management like in AA or new trait will just cost in higher cd to utilities or skills

I think it’s a bit much to say there is no energy management; there obviously is buy conservative use of skills. The OP seems to suggest that the ‘regular’ energy regain is not satisfactory, though I’m uncertain that’s a very objective assessment.

I think for me, the real issue is that you have CD’s AND energy management. Maybe something breaks in the toolset if you take out CD’s, I haven’t checked, but if Energy management is going to be the concept, then CD’s are overly restrictive and frankly, going to be a nightmare to balance for Anet as the skills increase over the years with elites, etc …

I don’t think just getting more energy through AA is a good answer to ‘better’ energy management; being able to spam your higher cost skills more often is not a compelling reason to justify the suggestion for better management; it seems like a thinly veiled complaint that skill costs are too high. For me, I don’t have energy management issues EXCEPT when using Glint, even with only two skills going. I think that’s OK; it just forces you into a more passive playmode to match the passive nature of the skills. It doesn’t prevent you from popping them active.

Im just going to quietly wait for the patch, and if in PvP I cant use legends other than Shiro and Glint or weapons other than staff and swords, Anet can take their Player vs Point game mode and stuff it up their…..

Justine.6351:

Druids wanted easier and easier Astral Force generation and it got to the point where it was meaningless so anet nerfed 2 of the celestial avatar skills, both 50% in functionality and the one in +40% recharge.

The point of energy costs on weapon skills is to keep the recharges reasonable for what they do. You start increasing energy gain per second or start trimming it, expect even more hard nerfs with things like 5sec recharge/50% dmg CoR, 20sec/-2hits UA and 30sec/no evade surge of the mists. Or it could even be swapping legendaries goes from 50% energy to 33% energy.

If you want energy management, stop running all 5 pips with herald all the time.

Weapon skills already have huge cd given the fact they have to use cd as well. Other classes have as high or even lower cd’s actually. The time where rev could spam UA every 7sec, CoR 3sec etc are long ago gone. They shouldnt cost any energy cause its just bullkitten given current state.

Zenith.7301:

Besides, most other classes just swap weapons when they go on cooldown to cycle their damage and utility skills.

We swap weapons, and just like thieves the both weapons pool from the same resource, except we don’t gain back our resource at anywhere the rate thieves do.

Srsly if u cant handle the energy Management of revs u should watch for another class …

messiah.1908:

the main problem is anet introduce new concept of energy management (like thief initiative). so thief skill cost ini – yes thief utility cost ini – no. does thief has way to manage his ini – yes with trait and utilities

Mate what are you smoking? Thief utilities do not cost ini.
Also let’s be honest…as Revenant regardless of spec you will never get passed the 70 energy mark. So can we please have energy generation outside of combat and have energy reset at 50 as it always has when you legend swap?

Rev dont need energy regen with autos just removing energy costs on weapon skill.

serj.8214:

Rev dont need energy regen with autos just removing energy costs on weapon skill.

Agreed or if they want to do baby steps they should half the energy cost of all weapon skills and see how it affects game balance.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

messiah.1908:

the main problem is anet introduce new concept of energy management (like thief initiative). so thief skill cost ini – yes thief utility cost ini – no. does thief has way to manage his ini – yes with trait and utilities

Mate what are you smoking? Thief utilities do not cost ini.
Also let’s be honest…as Revenant regardless of spec you will never get passed the 70 energy mark. So can we please have energy generation outside of combat and have energy reset at 50 as it always has when you legend swap?

can you read
“thief utility cost ini – NO”

Spartacus.3192:

serj.8214:

Rev dont need energy regen with autos just removing energy costs on weapon skill.

Agreed or if they want to do baby steps they should half the energy cost of all weapon skills and see how it affects game balance.

agreed. but i can see the outcome. more ppl spam utilities so they will add more cd to utilities. so nothing will change

messiah.1908:

Spartacus.3192:

serj.8214:

Rev dont need energy regen with autos just removing energy costs on weapon skill.

Agreed or if they want to do baby steps they should half the energy cost of all weapon skills and see how it affects game balance.

agreed. but i can see the outcome. more ppl spam utilities so they will add more cd to utilities. so nothing will change

Many of utilities already has good CD or high energy cost so atm you should make a choice what to use weapon skills or utilities so atm u cant make any combo like Absorb Pain+precision strike for exemple because it costs almost all ur energy and without it ull die (

serj.8214:

messiah.1908:

Spartacus.3192:

serj.8214:

Rev dont need energy regen with autos just removing energy costs on weapon skill.

Agreed or if they want to do baby steps they should half the energy cost of all weapon skills and see how it affects game balance.

agreed. but i can see the outcome. more ppl spam utilities so they will add more cd to utilities. so nothing will change

Many of utilities already has good CD or high energy cost so atm you should make a choice what to use weapon skills or utilities so atm u cant make any combo like Absorb Pain+precision strike for exemple because it costs almost all ur energy and without it ull die (

35 +5 nrg is not all your nrg. nrg management is play with above the 50% and swap below to regain 50% . so if PS cost 0 they will probably raise the utilities nrg or add cd

messiah.1908:

serj.8214:

messiah.1908:

Spartacus.3192:

serj.8214:

Rev dont need energy regen with autos just removing energy costs on weapon skill.

Agreed or if they want to do baby steps they should half the energy cost of all weapon skills and see how it affects game balance.

agreed. but i can see the outcome. more ppl spam utilities so they will add more cd to utilities. so nothing will change

Many of utilities already has good CD or high energy cost so atm you should make a choice what to use weapon skills or utilities so atm u cant make any combo like Absorb Pain+precision strike for exemple because it costs almost all ur energy and without it ull die (

35 +5 nrg is not all your nrg. nrg management is play with above the 50% and swap below to regain 50% . so if PS cost 0 they will probably raise the utilities nrg or add cd

And what skills you can use with 10 energy? We already have CD that are balanced its only question of energy. And if energy is smtng dat came with souls(legends) i think only those should use it then it will be easier manage it. And PS already has good CD just need some fixes.

messiah.1908:

serj.8214:

messiah.1908:

Spartacus.3192:

serj.8214:

Rev dont need energy regen with autos just removing energy costs on weapon skill.

Agreed or if they want to do baby steps they should half the energy cost of all weapon skills and see how it affects game balance.

agreed. but i can see the outcome. more ppl spam utilities so they will add more cd to utilities. so nothing will change

Many of utilities already has good CD or high energy cost so atm you should make a choice what to use weapon skills or utilities so atm u cant make any combo like Absorb Pain+precision strike for exemple because it costs almost all ur energy and without it ull die (

35 +5 nrg is not all your nrg. nrg management is play with above the 50% and swap below to regain 50% . so if PS cost 0 they will probably raise the utilities nrg or add cd

Given how kitten the energy system is and half of our utility skills already has cd i woulndt mind them reworking energy system. Utility skills could receive X cd like Glint while energy would still be here but only for upkeep abilities. As i said earlier revenant weapon cd’s are not that short anymore while they do still cost energy. I can do many comprasions like UA to Rocket Charge, PS to Electro Whirl, CoR to True Shot etc.
Check warrior base shield is superior to our “elite” crap.