Guild Wars 2

Now that we know about the Shiro legend, I cannot help feel that Jade Wind needs a buff to bring it more in line with thieves. Lets compare them to highlight what I mean:

Jade Wind costs 50 energy, which in result you can’t use your other skills (keep in mind, rev start with 50 energy)
Basilisk Venom doesn’t cost any energy, it uses cooldown, so you can combo your stun with your other energy consuming skills.

Basilisk Venom combos with your other skill, so you use your burst and your burst will have stun effect
Jade Wind has no synergy with other burst, it has it’s own que time and cause way too many energy.

Basilisk Venom can be prepared before the fight.
Jade Wind can only be used during the fight to have an effect
Jade wind can not be pre casted, so you have your energy regain back before the fight.

Basilisk Venom can be comboed with skill like steal or sword 2 for 1200/900 range stun
Jadewind is only 600 radius

Basilisk Venom can be comboed with instacast
Jadewind has huge telegraphed animation.

I know that Basilisk has a decent cooldown time, and therefore you will only need to use it off cooldown brainlessly, but IMO it still seems more powerful than JW.

With the exception of the high energy cost, I have always felt JW should be a normal utility skill rather than an elite. Now that we have a very silimar (more powerful) version of JW in BV, I feel it is time for a buff to JW. If JW can be instant casted and be comboed with other skills, or a less energy cost, or less obviously animation, then I would be happier with it.

Can we talk about Jade Winds being completely outshadowed by “Chilled to the bone!”?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Chilled_to_the_bone!%22

“Chilled to the bone!” has more damage (almost double with traits), a lot of sinergy with Reaper traits, almost the same stun, 12 seconds of chill (that Reaper can explode and spread) and 2 seconds of resistance.

Jade Winds sucks compared to this one. “Chilled to the bone!” is going to be a nightmare in pvp.

Haha…just pray Anet doesn’t realize that 3s stun on 5 targets with no cooldown is insane. It forces the entire enemy team to either blow a defensive cooldown or dodge and can be used multiple times in a row (run with two revenants for max lol, perma team stun). Comparatively, BV is single target 1s stun on a 40s cooldown that’s blockable. Oh no, how will you survive that…/sarcasm

Zodryn.4216:

Haha…just pray Anet doesn’t realize that 3s stun on 5 targets with no cooldown is insane. It forces the entire enemy team to either blow a defensive cooldown or dodge and can be used multiple times in a row (run with two revenants for max lol, perma team stun). Comparatively, BV is single target 1s stun on a 40s cooldown that’s blockable. Oh no, how will you survive that…/sarcasm

Or to walk out of it?
Jade Winds has a huge green telegraph and a long animation.
Plus you can’t spam it. It’s 50 energy, you can use it twice in a row, then once every 10 seconds. But if you do it you can’t do anything else. Not even use weaponskills except auto attack.

If it becomes op then they can simply add some cooldown, but I don’t think that’s the case.

Overall Revenant is a seriously underpowered class atm. Way inferior to Guardian, but also inferior to Thief.

Kidel.2057:

Zodryn.4216:

Haha…just pray Anet doesn’t realize that 3s stun on 5 targets with no cooldown is insane. It forces the entire enemy team to either blow a defensive cooldown or dodge and can be used multiple times in a row (run with two revenants for max lol, perma team stun). Comparatively, BV is single target 1s stun on a 40s cooldown that’s blockable. Oh no, how will you survive that…/sarcasm

Or to walk out of it?
Jade Winds has a huge green telegraph and a long animation.
Plus you can’t spam it. It’s 50 energy, you can use it twice in a row, then once every 10 seconds. But if you do it you can’t do anything else. Not even use weaponskills except auto attack.

If it becomes op then they can simply add some cooldown, but I don’t think that’s the case.

Overall Revenant is a seriously underpowered class atm. Way inferior to Guardian, but also inferior to Thief.

It’s not easy for most classes to get out of the 600 range radius in the 1 second it takes to use it, assuming they are even able to see it coming.

It should be noted that I’m not necessarily arguing that JW is OP. It may or not be, we’ll just have to see it in action more. My argument is that BV is definitely not balanced correctly in comparison. Thieves are a high risk high reward profession, but for the most part the risk is higher than the reward in the current state of the game, and BV is not worthy of being an elite in its current state.

Kidel.2057:

Can we talk about Jade Winds being completely outshadowed by “Chilled to the bone!”?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Chilled_to_the_bone!%22

“Chilled to the bone!” has more damage (almost double with traits), a lot of sinergy with Reaper traits, almost the same stun, 12 seconds of chill (that Reaper can explode and spread) and 2 seconds of resistance.

Jade Winds sucks compared to this one. “Chilled to the bone!” is going to be a nightmare in pvp.

Really? With a 2 second cast time, easily visible tell, and 2 minute cooldown anybody who gets hit with this in PvP are either new to it or just subpar in skill. CttB will either be interrupted or escaped via dodge/movement skill/swiftness movement. Those who get caught in it would have likely been caught in any number of other situations and died anyway. It will be rare for this to actually connect.

Einlanzer.1627:

Kidel.2057:

Zodryn.4216:

Haha…just pray Anet doesn’t realize that 3s stun on 5 targets with no cooldown is insane. It forces the entire enemy team to either blow a defensive cooldown or dodge and can be used multiple times in a row (run with two revenants for max lol, perma team stun). Comparatively, BV is single target 1s stun on a 40s cooldown that’s blockable. Oh no, how will you survive that…/sarcasm

Or to walk out of it?
Jade Winds has a huge green telegraph and a long animation.
Plus you can’t spam it. It’s 50 energy, you can use it twice in a row, then once every 10 seconds. But if you do it you can’t do anything else. Not even use weaponskills except auto attack.

If it becomes op then they can simply add some cooldown, but I don’t think that’s the case.

Overall Revenant is a seriously underpowered class atm. Way inferior to Guardian, but also inferior to Thief.

It’s not easy for most classes to get out of the 600 range radius in the 1 second it takes to use it, assuming they are even able to see it coming.

It should be noted that I’m not necessarily arguing that JW is OP. It may or not be, we’ll just have to see it in action more. My argument is that BV is definitely not balanced correctly in comparison. Thieves are a high risk high reward profession, but for the most part the risk is higher than the reward in the current state of the game, and BV is not worthy of being an elite in its current state.

It’s not easy for most classes to avoid Basilisk Venom, but it’s easy for people to dodge Jade wind.

It should be noted that im not arguing that Venom is OP. I’m just saying that Jade Wind is UP. And Revenant is high risk high reward, but for the most part risk is higher for revenant, while thief has lower risk but gives more reward, which is a fact.

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s not easy for most classes to get out of the 600 range radius in the 1 second it takes to use it, assuming they are even able to see it coming.

Are you saying that is hard to dodge?

Einlanzer.1627:

My argument is that BV is definitely not balanced correctly in comparison. Thieves are a high risk high reward profession, but for the most part the risk is higher than the reward in the current state of the game, and BV is not worthy of being an elite in its current state.

Thiefs are not assassins. Given that they have initiative and stealth, BV is really good.

If you give jade winds + stealth, than that’s op. But even if you make BV a 2s stun, basically no class can survive a thief.

Kidel.2057:

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s not easy for most classes to get out of the 600 range radius in the 1 second it takes to use it, assuming they are even able to see it coming.

Are you saying that is hard to dodge?

Einlanzer.1627:

My argument is that BV is definitely not balanced correctly in comparison. Thieves are a high risk high reward profession, but for the most part the risk is higher than the reward in the current state of the game, and BV is not worthy of being an elite in its current state.

Thiefs are not assassins. Given that they have initiative and stealth, BV is really good.

If you give jade winds + stealth, than that’s op. But even if you make BV a 2s stun, basically no class can survive a thief.

That’s not technically true, considering that BV is avoidable. But even if it was true, that’s how the Thief was designed to play. It’s why they have the worst attrition of any class in the game. If they build zerker and blow signets and BV to get a good backstab and it fails for whatever reason, you have to be a pretty bad player or very under-geared to be unable to immediately obliterate them.

If you ask me, the whole class is just poorly designed. The way they play is very fickle; they are constantly struggling with excessive defensive weakness due to natural exploits they gain from the way stealth and initiative were designed.

you can’t see BV coming. Even without stealth.
Can you imagine Jade winds with stealth? No please.

Thief is thief, Revenant is revenant.
And Jade Wind is already weaker then Reaper’s Elite (you didn’t complain about that huh?).

The reason why Thief doesn’t get something like Jade Winds is stealth. Do you want Jade Winds? Give up stealth.

Also initiative burst with 2s of stun = insta kill on every class in the game. Nice job balancing.

Actually I’d love stealth on Revenant. It would solve the survivability problem.

Kidel.2057:

Zodryn.4216:

Haha…just pray Anet doesn’t realize that 3s stun on 5 targets with no cooldown is insane. It forces the entire enemy team to either blow a defensive cooldown or dodge and can be used multiple times in a row (run with two revenants for max lol, perma team stun). Comparatively, BV is single target 1s stun on a 40s cooldown that’s blockable. Oh no, how will you survive that…/sarcasm

Or to walk out of it?
Jade Winds has a huge green telegraph and a long animation.
Plus you can’t spam it. It’s 50 energy, you can use it twice in a row, then once every 10 seconds. But if you do it you can’t do anything else. Not even use weaponskills except auto attack.

If it becomes op then they can simply add some cooldown, but I don’t think that’s the case.

Overall Revenant is a seriously underpowered class atm. Way inferior to Guardian, but also inferior to Thief.

Using a 3 second aoe stun twice in a row is powerful even if it uses all of your energy. With two coordinated revenants on your team the best case scenario will allow you to keep a whole team stunned while your party cleans up. It doesn’t matter if you can only auto or that you can’t spam it more than twice in a row, it is still very powerful. Note that I’m not asking for a nerf, but it is certainly stronger than many other cc skills as it stands.

Also, if you’re woried about the cast time, just have a mesmer or thief stealth you so you can pop it unseen.

I’m sure that it’s getting a cd if they see people exploiting it.

this class is eavily under construction. (and by the way you probably need 3 revenants doing nothing except jade winds)

Kidel.2057:

And Jade Wind is already weaker then Reaper’s Elite (you didn’t complain about that huh?).

No i would disagree to that.

Yes Chilled to the Bone causes chill (8 seconds) and gives stability (in the newest iteration, we know of) and will probably do a little more damage (not sure on this one considering the fact that we dont know the coefficents yet) for one 1 second less stunduration but honestly only braindead player will get hit by it due the 2 second casttime and obivious animation (jade wind has only a 1 second casttime).

Not to mention the fact that jade wind can be used much more often in combat. Yes it costs so much energy that you cant do much after it but that doesnt matter if your team can clean up for you. Also doesnt swaping legends still give 50 energy? So with the right energy managemant dealing with the high energycost is not that bad.

Chilled to the Bone has many side effects that you get with reaper traits, like chill exploding (and spreading) and chill doing damage (over time?), plus probably higher base damage. 8s of chill on Reaper is huge.

You can use it less often, but you still can spam your skills after that with no restrictions.

Kidel.2057:

Chilled to the Bone has many side effects that you get with reaper traits, like chill exploding (and spreading) and chill doing damage (over time?), plus probably higher base damage. 8s of chill on Reaper is huge.

You can use it less often, but you still can spam your skills after that with no restrictions.

8 seconds of chill can be huge yes but it doesnt matter much if the skill rarely hits. Not to mention with the high amounts condi removel in pvp setting, long duration chill hardly matters.

I think you highly underestimate how bad skills with long casttimes can be in pvp.

I do not. In fact that’s why BV is better than JW. Once you apply the venom to the weapon, the stun comes with no activation time and cannot be avoided easily with aegis/dodge, since it’s on 2 hits.

Why don’t you wait till you actually have a chance to use the skill before you think its under powered… You realize its a huge AoE stun that does damage, an Earth Shaker on demand that actually hurts…that you could cast twice than legend swap into mallyx or jalis and CC again and that’s without even counting weapon skills.

I don’t think that anyone in pvp can fall for this (attachment, and that’s actually while casting). It’s maybe the biggest skill effect in the game after Ele’s tornado.

Depends at which point this skill eats your energy. If it’s immediate than it will be an easy dodge however if you can cancel it you could easily bait dodges out of players with a tell this big.

Stinja.9612:

Depends at which point this skill eats your energy. If it’s immediate than it will be an easy dodge however if you can cancel it you could easily bait dodges out of players with a tell this big.

Immediate judging from the POI.
Energy is an activation cost.

In before somene posts that churning earth is op in pvp cause it hits hard … Still cant believe someone can see reaper shouts as strong.