Guild Wars 2

DeceiverX.8361:

Rym.1469:

I just hope that they will shave Power scalling a bit instead of nerfing base damage. Base sword damage might even need a slight buff, it’s the incredibly high power scalling that makes it ridiculous.

There is no such thing as “base damage” in GW2. All skill damage is dervied solely from a weapon’s innate damage stat (universal to all classes), the user’s power, and a skill coefficient that gets multiplied by the other two. Damage modifiers are thrown into the mix, and then the whole thing is divided by the target’s armor.

So really, what you’re asking for is nerfing the Rev’s sword damage coefficient, which, seeing as it’s the only thing that changes on a class-by-class basis, is exactly what they’re doing, because the coefficient (damage) on MH sword autos for the revenant were/are too high.

That being said, CoR seriously needs to be toned down, and Cruel Repercussion reworked.

By Base damage I mean damage of attack with no bonus Power or modifiers.

Burtnik.5218:

Guys.. please. Wait for the review before you start complaining. I will be first to yell at Roy if the changes sux balls but we dont know their plans for rev now. We dont know if they reduce energy cost on wep skills, rework sword 2 to be a burst move or whatever.

It may not be as abd as it sounds. For now i only hope that they rework Shiro healing cus its really terrible. Gonna bumb my thread about it and zzz time.

If history has taught us anything, Anet does not know how to balance anything ‘slightly’. They will either tweak something so it makes no difference, or they will sledge hammer it into oblivion, rendering the skill completely unusable.

Reading between the lines, the Thief will be the new WvW/Spvp FoTSeason class. Increasing their damage and not touching the stealth mechanics so squishes get one shot from stealth..Fun times… My only concern is the fact we will have to live with any crap changes for 4-6 months at least.

mulzi.8273:

Burtnik.5218:

Guys.. please. Wait for the review before you start complaining. I will be first to yell at Roy if the changes sux balls but we dont know their plans for rev now. We dont know if they reduce energy cost on wep skills, rework sword 2 to be a burst move or whatever.

It may not be as abd as it sounds. For now i only hope that they rework Shiro healing cus its really terrible. Gonna bumb my thread about it and zzz time.

If history has taught us anything, Anet does not know how to balance anything ‘slightly’. They will either tweak something so it makes no difference, or they will sledge hammer it into oblivion, rendering the skill completely unusable.

Reading between the lines, the Thief will be the new WvW/Spvp FoTSeason class. Increasing their damage and not touching the stealth mechanics so squishes get one shot from stealth..Fun times… My only concern is the fact we will have to live with any crap changes for 4-6 months at least.

Agree, they should take notes from ppl who really plays rev and against them above lvl35 pvp atleast, so they know what they are talking about.

I hope they rework ventari. I would love to play a bunker

mulzi.8273:

Burtnik.5218:

Guys.. please. Wait for the review before you start complaining. I will be first to yell at Roy if the changes sux balls but we dont know their plans for rev now. We dont know if they reduce energy cost on wep skills, rework sword 2 to be a burst move or whatever.

It may not be as abd as it sounds. For now i only hope that they rework Shiro healing cus its really terrible. Gonna bumb my thread about it and zzz time.

If history has taught us anything, Anet does not know how to balance anything ‘slightly’. They will either tweak something so it makes no difference, or they will sledge hammer it into oblivion, rendering the skill completely unusable.

Reading between the lines, the Thief will be the new WvW/Spvp FoTSeason class. Increasing their damage and not touching the stealth mechanics so squishes get one shot from stealth..Fun times… My only concern is the fact we will have to live with any crap changes for 4-6 months at least.

I dont think the nerf will be more than 10% tbh. They also have to keep in mind that sword is the only dps weapon we have. We also dont have any condi removal nor reliable healing outside shield 5 whatsoever so evades and damage output is our only defense. For me it seems like they want to put sword more as burst weapon rather than sustained dps.

We will see in 24h. Im not sure if that aa nerf makes any sense tho.. i dont feel lke my aa on sword rev is all that much higher than gs/sword guard aa for example. Someone willing to make some calculations? ;o

It’s a pretty vague description on the blog of the adjustments, id be happy to see a hammer 2 nerf, buffs for staff, Ventari/Salvation, and Jalis.

Ventari is just way too clunky, the tablet should project when you switch to Ventari(QoL change) and there should be no cast time to move it. You should be able to manipulate it’s movement whilst engaged in other activities. And the cost should be reviewed on the abilities.

Jalis needs the whirling hammers to be more reliable, any terrain breaks them and you have to re-activate them, the road is too slow in providing stability. I get knocked off/out of the road before the first pulse hits.

Staff, why is the support ability of renewing wave 300 radius when the Guardians Empower is 600? Debilitating slam could use some work, the reason CoR is so good apart from being range which in the current pirate ship meta is absolutely godly is because of the co-efficients. From range at mid or long this skill on a 2 second timer that costs 5(lol) hits harder than a skill i have to be in melee with and have a condition of them using a skill. And of course still land the hit to get my sweet .5 of a second daze.

Am i missing something about staff? Does it see a lot of play in sPvP?

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

Hexalot.8194:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/profession-balance-goals-for-the-winter-2016-update/

Now that the revenant is out in the wild, we’ve been taking a hard look at it. The general goal for this profession is focused specialization through a variety of trait and legend choices. We’ll be continuing this in the future by assuring that each legend and core/elite specialization fulfills their respective roles. In this iteration, we’ll be looking to tone down the revenant’s sword damage in some areas and adjust the weapon’s abilities so that it’s less focused on autoattacking and better at singling out and attacking enemies. We’re also keeping a close eye on the revenant’s defensive capabilities.

What is this, you say ???

No changes to Hammer #2 ?

Oh the tears… they burn !!

LOL…

Nerfing the autoattack on sword? Wut.

With the toning down of bunkers overall it seems like a net buff anyway especially against engineers, which tend to be a tough duel. Mallyx seems to be the only thing on rev that’s out of line. UA isn’t terrible even in 1v1 (so many counters like stealth or simple block) and how energy expensive good skills are balances them out. I think keeping the basic feel of revenant is essential while modifying classes overall to make it high skill cap. I play Glint/Shiro with offhand sword and staff and when played well is rewarding.

I’d still like to see underwater abilities for Glint and the other legends that are currently still missing theirs.

Chorazin.4107:

hammer 2 nerf

I wont be fine with the nerf as there is no reason to.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Shot
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin

Compare base damage and scaling. CoR comes out as junk, sure it has 2cd but its limited by range and is unreliable due to terrain issues. It miss even on flat terrain after all along with tracking issues.

So why noone complains about true shot as well? It hits up to 5 too with low cd. Also most people that complains about CoR runs pure zerk spamming 1. They dont know how to position themself whatsoever so instead picking up something tankier they go yolo, there is no hell.

Got a nice example of squishies that coming to forum daily just to cry about CoR in one damage log. In this case damage is okay too as it doesnt say ruins right? I dont even run full zerk on my guard but a mix of ptv+zerk and traver runes and the damage was done with 2 might max, 0 vul on targets. One can imagine how much it would be with pure zerk and 25 might stacks along with maxed out traits for dps, not survival.

Fade to Black.7042:

mulzi.8273:

Burtnik.5218:

Guys.. please. Wait for the review before you start complaining. I will be first to yell at Roy if the changes sux balls but we dont know their plans for rev now. We dont know if they reduce energy cost on wep skills, rework sword 2 to be a burst move or whatever.

It may not be as abd as it sounds. For now i only hope that they rework Shiro healing cus its really terrible. Gonna bumb my thread about it and zzz time.

If history has taught us anything, Anet does not know how to balance anything ‘slightly’. They will either tweak something so it makes no difference, or they will sledge hammer it into oblivion, rendering the skill completely unusable.

Reading between the lines, the Thief will be the new WvW/Spvp FoTSeason class. Increasing their damage and not touching the stealth mechanics so squishes get one shot from stealth..Fun times… My only concern is the fact we will have to live with any crap changes for 4-6 months at least.

Agree, they should take notes from ppl who really plays rev and against them above lvl35 pvp atleast, so they know what they are talking about.

Quite frankly they can’t. For every profession and for every person posting a sound idea to address an overpowered skill there at least as many claiming said profession is underpowered, that the Devs hate the class and are trying to get rid of it and that the class “garbage”. They then post on how OP another class is.

I read the profession boards with regularity and see it all the time.

How do you suggest the Devs differentiate between the two groups? If a thief claims Rev OP and a rev complains Thief OP who is correct and which should be listened to by the devs?

While there might be other means of doing so the only legitimate way I can see of addressing concerns of balance in PvP is to measure the entire body of players at upper levels of PvP and analyzing which professions are overrepresented and which are not.

An issue arises here as well as PvP is not the same as Pve and WvW.

Burtnik.5218:

Chorazin.4107:

hammer 2 nerf

I wont be fine with the nerf as there is no reason to.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Shot
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin

Compare base damage and scaling. CoR comes out as junk, sure it has 2cd but its limited by range and is unreliable due to terrain issues. It miss even on flat terrain after all along with tracking issues.

So why noone complains about true shot as well? It hits up to 5 too with low cd. Also most people that complains about CoR runs pure zerk spamming 1. They dont know how to position themself whatsoever so instead picking up something tankier they go yolo, there is no hell.

Got a nice example of squishies that coming to forum daily just to cry about CoR in one damage log. In this case damage is okay too as it doesnt say ruins right? I dont even run full zerk on my guard but a mix of ptv+zerk and traver runes and the damage was done with 2 might max, 0 vul on targets. One can imagine how much it would be with pure zerk and 25 might stacks along with maxed out traits for dps, not survival.

While True Shot hits for much damage, it does require Guardian to give up a core specialization & staff utilities. If it does get nerfed , it needs less nerfing compared to CoR : CoR is on 2 cooldown , comes with many damage modifiers (Fury effectiveness doubled via Roiling Mists , Cruel Repercussions , Asssassin’s Presence for +150 ferocity, Targeted Destruction, etc), hits 3 times, and CoR isn’t a projectile.

Also unlike Revenant & Herald Hammer, DH longbow weapon doesn’t do heavy damage AoE on all its skills. Even Hammer Bolt (Revenant Hammer 1) is 5 targets.

Burtnik.5218:

Chorazin.4107:

hammer 2 nerf

I wont be fine with the nerf as there is no reason to.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Shot
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin

Compare base damage and scaling. CoR comes out as junk, sure it has 2cd but its limited by range and is unreliable due to terrain issues. It miss even on flat terrain after all along with tracking issues.

So why noone complains about true shot as well? It hits up to 5 too with low cd. Also most people that complains about CoR runs pure zerk spamming 1. They dont know how to position themself whatsoever so instead picking up something tankier they go yolo, there is no hell.

Got a nice example of squishies that coming to forum daily just to cry about CoR in one damage log. In this case damage is okay too as it doesnt say ruins right? I dont even run full zerk on my guard but a mix of ptv+zerk and traver runes and the damage was done with 2 might max, 0 vul on targets. One can imagine how much it would be with pure zerk and 25 might stacks along with maxed out traits for dps, not survival.

Both skills are projectiles so you can’t really use that skill in any real fight because there is always wall of reflection and when you go 1200 range reves put some CoR can you die.

Junkpile.7439:

Burtnik.5218:

Chorazin.4107:

hammer 2 nerf

I wont be fine with the nerf as there is no reason to.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Shot
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin

Compare base damage and scaling. CoR comes out as junk, sure it has 2cd but its limited by range and is unreliable due to terrain issues. It miss even on flat terrain after all along with tracking issues.

So why noone complains about true shot as well? It hits up to 5 too with low cd. Also most people that complains about CoR runs pure zerk spamming 1. They dont know how to position themself whatsoever so instead picking up something tankier they go yolo, there is no hell.

Got a nice example of squishies that coming to forum daily just to cry about CoR in one damage log. In this case damage is okay too as it doesnt say ruins right? I dont even run full zerk on my guard but a mix of ptv+zerk and traver runes and the damage was done with 2 might max, 0 vul on targets. One can imagine how much it would be with pure zerk and 25 might stacks along with maxed out traits for dps, not survival.

Both skills are projectiles so you can’t really use that skill in any real fight because there is always wall of reflection and when you go 1200 range reves put some CoR can you die.

True shot had no penalty in melee range. CoR tickels in melee range.

Please top posting as you have been flooding with nonsense.

Learn the counters properly. No self respecting spvper will ever get hit by CoR or true shot anyways. And we have proved that we don’t balance for wvw.

Junkpile.7439:

Burtnik.5218:

Chorazin.4107:

hammer 2 nerf

I wont be fine with the nerf as there is no reason to.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Shot
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin

Compare base damage and scaling. CoR comes out as junk, sure it has 2cd but its limited by range and is unreliable due to terrain issues. It miss even on flat terrain after all along with tracking issues.

So why noone complains about true shot as well? It hits up to 5 too with low cd. Also most people that complains about CoR runs pure zerk spamming 1. They dont know how to position themself whatsoever so instead picking up something tankier they go yolo, there is no hell.

Got a nice example of squishies that coming to forum daily just to cry about CoR in one damage log. In this case damage is okay too as it doesnt say ruins right? I dont even run full zerk on my guard but a mix of ptv+zerk and traver runes and the damage was done with 2 might max, 0 vul on targets. One can imagine how much it would be with pure zerk and 25 might stacks along with maxed out traits for dps, not survival.

Both skills are projectiles so you can’t really use that skill in any real fight because there is always wall of reflection and when you go 1200 range reves put some CoR can you die.

So..make CoR a projectile and be done with it? Played sometimes with hammer in spvp even tho i hardly used it but now its just deleted in my eyes. This weapon has no damage whatsoever.

Infusion.7149:

it does require Guardian to give up a core specialization

Tell that to shield, Glint and chrono.

babazhook.6805:

Fade to Black.7042:

mulzi.8273:

Burtnik.5218:

Guys.. please. Wait for the review before you start complaining. I will be first to yell at Roy if the changes sux balls but we dont know their plans for rev now. We dont know if they reduce energy cost on wep skills, rework sword 2 to be a burst move or whatever.

It may not be as abd as it sounds. For now i only hope that they rework Shiro healing cus its really terrible. Gonna bumb my thread about it and zzz time.

If history has taught us anything, Anet does not know how to balance anything ‘slightly’. They will either tweak something so it makes no difference, or they will sledge hammer it into oblivion, rendering the skill completely unusable.

Reading between the lines, the Thief will be the new WvW/Spvp FoTSeason class. Increasing their damage and not touching the stealth mechanics so squishes get one shot from stealth..Fun times… My only concern is the fact we will have to live with any crap changes for 4-6 months at least.

Agree, they should take notes from ppl who really plays rev and against them above lvl35 pvp atleast, so they know what they are talking about.

Quite frankly they can’t. For every profession and for every person posting a sound idea to address an overpowered skill there at least as many claiming said profession is underpowered, that the Devs hate the class and are trying to get rid of it and that the class “garbage”. They then post on how OP another class is.

I read the profession boards with regularity and see it all the time.

How do you suggest the Devs differentiate between the two groups? If a thief claims Rev OP and a rev complains Thief OP who is correct and which should be listened to by the devs?

While there might be other means of doing so the only legitimate way I can see of addressing concerns of balance in PvP is to measure the entire body of players at upper levels of PvP and analyzing which professions are overrepresented and which are not.

An issue arises here as well as PvP is not the same as Pve and WvW.

This is why we need AI players because even ESL pros are only excellent relative to other imperfect human beings. If a computer could beat a world champion in chess way back in the 90’s then why can’t they make the perfect AI’s today for balancing purposes and putting toned down versions (with champion level HP) in open world metas and raids as a cool externality?

Metrics come from the play of imperfect human beings so while it does maintain some reliability isn’t nearly as reliable as perfect AI comps with varying skills, traits, and class comps to test how they fare against each other. They could do team X vs. team Y fight in Khylo five times, then Legacy, then Temple. The AI would likely need to be adaptive.

What I’m getting at is what if seemingly OP skills and classes really aren’t but reliable counters to them weren’t discovered? Due to the sheer volume of class and spec combinations per comp it would take quite awhile, but devs would have the power to say, “We have data objectively proving X skill is well balanced so suck it up and play on!” whenever someone brings up overpowered skills. Yes, some skills and amulets are genuinely overpowered but finding them would be a purpose behind such scientific research.

and watching the blog, you now see the proverbial sledge hammer…

Agemnon.4608:

babazhook.6805:

Fade to Black.7042:

mulzi.8273:

Burtnik.5218:

Guys.. please. Wait for the review before you start complaining. I will be first to yell at Roy if the changes sux balls but we dont know their plans for rev now. We dont know if they reduce energy cost on wep skills, rework sword 2 to be a burst move or whatever.

It may not be as abd as it sounds. For now i only hope that they rework Shiro healing cus its really terrible. Gonna bumb my thread about it and zzz time.

If history has taught us anything, Anet does not know how to balance anything ‘slightly’. They will either tweak something so it makes no difference, or they will sledge hammer it into oblivion, rendering the skill completely unusable.

Reading between the lines, the Thief will be the new WvW/Spvp FoTSeason class. Increasing their damage and not touching the stealth mechanics so squishes get one shot from stealth..Fun times… My only concern is the fact we will have to live with any crap changes for 4-6 months at least.

Agree, they should take notes from ppl who really plays rev and against them above lvl35 pvp atleast, so they know what they are talking about.

Quite frankly they can’t. For every profession and for every person posting a sound idea to address an overpowered skill there at least as many claiming said profession is underpowered, that the Devs hate the class and are trying to get rid of it and that the class “garbage”. They then post on how OP another class is.

I read the profession boards with regularity and see it all the time.

How do you suggest the Devs differentiate between the two groups? If a thief claims Rev OP and a rev complains Thief OP who is correct and which should be listened to by the devs?

While there might be other means of doing so the only legitimate way I can see of addressing concerns of balance in PvP is to measure the entire body of players at upper levels of PvP and analyzing which professions are overrepresented and which are not.

An issue arises here as well as PvP is not the same as Pve and WvW.

This is why we need AI players because even ESL pros are only excellent relative to other imperfect human beings. If a computer could beat a world champion in chess way back in the 90’s then why can’t they make the perfect AI’s today for balancing purposes and putting toned down versions (with champion level HP) in open world metas and raids as a cool externality?

Metrics come from the play of imperfect human beings so while it does maintain some reliability isn’t nearly as reliable as perfect AI comps with varying skills, traits, and class comps to test how they fare against each other. They could do team X vs. team Y fight in Khylo five times, then Legacy, then Temple. The AI would likely need to be adaptive.

What I’m getting at is what if seemingly OP skills and classes really aren’t but reliable counters to them weren’t discovered? Due to the sheer volume of class and spec combinations per comp it would take quite awhile, but devs would have the power to say, “We have data objectively proving X skill is well balanced so suck it up and play on!” whenever someone brings up overpowered skills. Yes, some skills and amulets are genuinely overpowered but finding them would be a purpose behind such scientific research.

Very well thought, I always knew that balancing around how bad players are in PvP would always keep constantly breaking a game and I have actually been noticing that with other games Ive played in the last years.

The only few times Devs should listen to the community in regards to PvP balance is when the feedback comes from well known top tier players. Cause even now I can still notice how they keep “balancing” around what most bad players die to. Lol like AGAIN nerfing Infuse Light, UA overall nerf and surely more to come.

Agemnon.4608:

babazhook.6805:

Fade to Black.7042:

mulzi.8273:

Burtnik.5218:

Guys.. please. Wait for the review before you start complaining. I will be first to yell at Roy if the changes sux balls but we dont know their plans for rev now. We dont know if they reduce energy cost on wep skills, rework sword 2 to be a burst move or whatever.

It may not be as abd as it sounds. For now i only hope that they rework Shiro healing cus its really terrible. Gonna bumb my thread about it and zzz time.

If history has taught us anything, Anet does not know how to balance anything ‘slightly’. They will either tweak something so it makes no difference, or they will sledge hammer it into oblivion, rendering the skill completely unusable.

Reading between the lines, the Thief will be the new WvW/Spvp FoTSeason class. Increasing their damage and not touching the stealth mechanics so squishes get one shot from stealth..Fun times… My only concern is the fact we will have to live with any crap changes for 4-6 months at least.

Agree, they should take notes from ppl who really plays rev and against them above lvl35 pvp atleast, so they know what they are talking about.

Quite frankly they can’t. For every profession and for every person posting a sound idea to address an overpowered skill there at least as many claiming said profession is underpowered, that the Devs hate the class and are trying to get rid of it and that the class “garbage”. They then post on how OP another class is.

I read the profession boards with regularity and see it all the time.

How do you suggest the Devs differentiate between the two groups? If a thief claims Rev OP and a rev complains Thief OP who is correct and which should be listened to by the devs?

While there might be other means of doing so the only legitimate way I can see of addressing concerns of balance in PvP is to measure the entire body of players at upper levels of PvP and analyzing which professions are overrepresented and which are not.

An issue arises here as well as PvP is not the same as Pve and WvW.

This is why we need AI players because even ESL pros are only excellent relative to other imperfect human beings. If a computer could beat a world champion in chess way back in the 90’s then why can’t they make the perfect AI’s today for balancing purposes and putting toned down versions (with champion level HP) in open world metas and raids as a cool externality?

Metrics come from the play of imperfect human beings so while it does maintain some reliability isn’t nearly as reliable as perfect AI comps with varying skills, traits, and class comps to test how they fare against each other. They could do team X vs. team Y fight in Khylo five times, then Legacy, then Temple. The AI would likely need to be adaptive.

What I’m getting at is what if seemingly OP skills and classes really aren’t but reliable counters to them weren’t discovered? Due to the sheer volume of class and spec combinations per comp it would take quite awhile, but devs would have the power to say, “We have data objectively proving X skill is well balanced so suck it up and play on!” whenever someone brings up overpowered skills. Yes, some skills and amulets are genuinely overpowered but finding them would be a purpose behind such scientific research.

Excellent points and I quite agree.

If what the guild twitch video highlighted as changes is all theyre doing to glint/shiro and sword it isnt as bad as i feared.