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Posted by: Hexalot.8194

Hexalot.8194

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/profession-balance-goals-for-the-winter-2016-update/

Now that the revenant is out in the wild, we’ve been taking a hard look at it. The general goal for this profession is focused specialization through a variety of trait and legend choices. We’ll be continuing this in the future by assuring that each legend and core/elite specialization fulfills their respective roles. In this iteration, we’ll be looking to tone down the revenant’s sword damage in some areas and adjust the weapon’s abilities so that it’s less focused on autoattacking and better at singling out and attacking enemies. We’re also keeping a close eye on the revenant’s defensive capabilities.

What is this, you say ???

No changes to Hammer #2 ?

Oh the tears… they burn !!

LOL…

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Posted by: Imperator totius Sylvari.9164

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/profession-balance-goals-for-the-winter-2016-update/

Now that the revenant is out in the wild, we’ve been taking a hard look at it. The general goal for this profession is focused specialization through a variety of trait and legend choices. We’ll be continuing this in the future by assuring that each legend and core/elite specialization fulfills their respective roles. In this iteration, we’ll be looking to tone down the revenant’s sword damage in some areas and adjust the weapon’s abilities so that it’s less focused on autoattacking and better at singling out and attacking enemies. We’re also keeping a close eye on the revenant’s defensive capabilities.

What is this, you say ???

No changes to Hammer #2 ?

Oh the tears… they burn !!

LOL…

Nerfing the autoattack on sword? Wut.

Founder of [CBA]/Former vE
No.2 Warrior NA/Irl behind Mr Kitten.7359

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

Im interesed to see that.. but no numbers etc? Just oh look, well tone down auto kthxbai?

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

Shifting DPS potential from Auto-attack to other abilities that consume Energy is absolutely needed and welcome. Bringing back resource management and increasing skillcap is always the right move.

I just hope that they will shave Power scalling a bit instead of nerfing base damage. Base sword damage might even need a slight buff, it’s the incredibly high power scalling that makes it ridiculous.

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

I can see the damage moved from auto to sword 2 and “call it a day” tbh. I hope base rev will get serious buffs so i dont have to look on this ugly herald anymore (looking at shiro junk heal and jalis).

Kinda funny how they want to nerf rev auto and buff thief auto at same time rofl.

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Posted by: KrHome.1920

KrHome.1920

They don’t mention aword auto attack. They say “sword damage in some areas”.

“Singling out” sounds like Unrelenting Assaults mechanic will possibly change from randomly attack everything in range to a single target attack, which would be nice against mesmers, rangers and minion masters where the skill is almost useless.

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

Nerf Revenenat Auto attack so all their damage isn’t just on auto attack, buff theif auto attack so that they can dps by just auto attacking.

Yeah sure ok.

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Posted by: Hexalot.8194

Hexalot.8194

They don’t mention aword auto attack. They say “sword damage in some areas”.

“Singling out” sounds like Unrelenting Assaults mechanic will possibly change from randomly attack everything in range to a single target attack, which would be nice against mesmers, rangers and minion masters where the skill is almost useless.

Disagree. This statement.. “adjust the weapon’s abilities so that it’s less focused on autoattacking”… does strongly suggest that sword AA is being “looked at”.

Not that I wouldn’t mind your interpretation… don’t get me wrong.

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

I’m fine with a Sword Auto nerf if that damage gets moved somewhere and maybe change up Sword 5 so it isn’t so lackluster.
Whatever makes it more skill-oriented without gutting it is fine with me, although it’s funny how they’re thinking of buffing up the Thief auto-attacks until the Thieves become extremely dangerous.

Anyway, I really do hope they change up Mallyx/Corruption (unlikely…) and I’m glad that they’re going to touch on the survivability, but I hope they don’t go too crazy and make us complete garbage.

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Posted by: SaulWolfden.6178

SaulWolfden.6178

As long as the damage nerfed from the auto attack goes to skills two and three to make up for what is lost, that would be fine. That way energy would be required to reach the higher damage auto attack used to have.

“Fear is only what you feel”

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Posted by: KrHome.1920

KrHome.1920

They don’t mention aword auto attack. They say “sword damage in some areas”.

“Singling out” sounds like Unrelenting Assaults mechanic will possibly change from randomly attack everything in range to a single target attack, which would be nice against mesmers, rangers and minion masters where the skill is almost useless.

Disagree. This statement.. “adjust the weapon’s abilities so that it’s less focused on autoattacking”… does strongly suggest that sword AA is being “looked at”.

Not that I wouldn’t mind your interpretation… don’t get me wrong.

You are right. I didn’t recognize the autoattacking part. So hopefully this auto attack nerf will result in a precision strike and unrelenting assault buff and in an unrelenting assault mechanics rework.

(edited by KrHome.1920)

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

As long as the damage nerfed from the auto attack goes to skills two and three to make up for what is lost, that would be fine. That way energy would be required to reach the higher damage auto attack used to have.

Question is.. if sword auto+quickness will remain be the most effective way to dps.

I also hope for ua to and for s/s in general to become extremely 1v1 focused. Shield is good and all but it should be suited more to bruiser/bunker builds while s/s to full glass wrecking chaos. I hope they buff hammer too – change CoR to be like Tremor that has no terrain issues. It never disappear when i cast it from upper ground.

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

If UA gets buffed…people are gonna be mad.
If anything happens to UA, especially a change that makes it single-target, expect it to do less damage.

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Posted by: Hexalot.8194

Hexalot.8194

If UA gets buffed…people are gonna be mad.
If anything happens to UA, especially a change that makes it single-target, expect it to do less damage.

A lot of people could live with that… providing they add some soft CC at the end (they could add a modifier such as all “hits must land first”) like chill or cripple.

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

If UA gets buffed…people are gonna be mad.
If anything happens to UA, especially a change that makes it single-target, expect it to do less damage.

They could you know..reduce number of strikes to 5 (like smokescale) which results in lower evade frame to make it easier to dodge. I predict sword auto to be nerfed by 10-20% that will be transfered to sword 2. Just what about offhand tho.. hmmm

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

Kinda funny how they want to nerf rev auto and buff thief auto at same time rofl.

^ This. Thief dev sees Revs autoattacks and wants Thief more like that. Rev devs runs analytics and sees that autoattacks (+1 or +2 abilities) is the maximum damage. Legend Swap covers immediate defensive needs. No one talks big picture balance – round and round we go.

Thief probably ends up with a high-powered autoattack + free-form utility choices and skips away in glee. If Pistol thief gets its bounce trait back, look out.

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Posted by: xarallei.4279

xarallei.4279

I’m skeptical and afraid this will gut revenant to early beta levels. I don’t mind if they shift the damage around, but I do mind if they don’t do enough to compensate for nerfing the AA. I don’t want my UA nerfed if they are going to go and nerf AA.

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Posted by: Prothescar.7842

Prothescar.7842

If they plan to nerf AA and put our damage on other skills then I really hope they also plan to adjust the energy cost of our weaponskills. Utilities cost a ton of energy, and using weaponskills along with them has only been possible up until now because autoattacks are a majority of our “rotation”.

Pushing damage onto other skills is going to be really, really bad if they don’t take this into consideration.

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Posted by: otto.5684

otto.5684

Shifting DPS potential from Auto-attack to other abilities that consume Energy is absolutely needed and welcome. Bringing back resource management and increasing skillcap is always the right move.

I just hope that they will shave Power scalling a bit instead of nerfing base damage. Base sword damage might even need a slight buff, it’s the incredibly high power scalling that makes it ridiculous.

So lets say we nerf the sword AA, what will they buff? Sword 2? Maybe, but unless the damage triples it will remain nothing but a weak slow. Sword 3? It already outdpses sword AA on a single target. OH sword 4? Its a block. OH sword 5? Useless in every game mode, and needs a massive damage buff to be even remotely considered. OH axe, more for conditional than power damage anyway, but 4 could see a buff.

You know what is the only thing over performing? Glint.

Last thing we want is reverent to be useless damage and only support. I am not interest in running a boon bot.

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

^
They can scrap current sword 2 and replace it with some burst attack like CoR. I hope thats what will happen. Projectile on sword 2 is too slow to the point where damage buff wont do a kitten. It ahrdly can catch anyone escaping with swiftness and is so easily strafed. Im also not interesed in boonbot. Glint is too easy to play so the energy cost need to go up.

I actually want to have viable core rev, s/s+hammer shiro/jalis and i hope its happen this patch. I hope we get 25% move speed in deva adept cus we need it.

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Posted by: Rome.7124

Rome.7124

haha, nothing surprised me any more. After selling revenant with HOT release, now they’ve met their goal, they decide to nerf the class.

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Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

Why would they buff anything? DPS doedn’t really mean kitten in this game so i don’t see any reason why reve should have high dps. You can still one hit stuff with sword 3.

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Posted by: PCanineBrigade.4916

PCanineBrigade.4916

Not looking forward to sword AA nerf. Its other skills are situational at best, and I’m not a fan of having projectile skills on a melee weapon in the first place.

Let’s see…
AA already has problems hitting moving targets, and cleaving with it is somewhat more unreliable than other professions’ melee attacks.
S#2 can get obstructed, absorbed and reflected.
S#3 is a DPS loss when using against more than 1 target, and won’t even work on targets near walls or some uneven terrains.

Now, if skill 2 also got changed (assuming they will move the damage to that skill) to a PBAoE or something that has no projectile rubbish, I’d be a lot happier. Hell, make it a copy of Burst of Strength if need be. Just no projectiles, please.

(edited by PCanineBrigade.4916)

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Posted by: Shados.1306

Shados.1306

If they plan to nerf AA and put our damage on other skills then I really hope they also plan to adjust the energy cost of our weaponskills. Utilities cost a ton of energy, and using weaponskills along with them has only been possible up until now because autoattacks are a majority of our “rotation”.

Pushing damage onto other skills is going to be really, really bad if they don’t take this into consideration.

Exactly this. Having most of the damage on auto-attack was actually kind of a clever way to make things work: the damage come from auto for free, and while you’re doing that, you can burn your energy on some, mutually exclusive (because of energy) utility. Pick wisely, because you can’t have it all.

eg: having quickness on quickly means you can’t use the shiro dodge if you’re in a bind.

The execution wasn’t perfect, but the feeling it gave was good. Back in beta, when everything meaningful to do cost energy, it was terrible. If you did damage, you were not doing anything else, most skills went unused (even worse than now), etc.

So if they move damage from auto-attack, they’ll have to seriously give a second look at the energy costs of weapon skills.

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

Guys.. please. Wait for the review before you start complaining. I will be first to yell at Roy if the changes sux balls but we dont know their plans for rev now. We dont know if they reduce energy cost on wep skills, rework sword 2 to be a burst move or whatever.

It may not be as abd as it sounds. For now i only hope that they rework Shiro healing cus its really terrible. Gonna bumb my thread about it and zzz time.

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Posted by: MercenaryNote.8506

MercenaryNote.8506

Nerf Revenenat Auto attack so all their damage isn’t just on auto attack, buff theif auto attack so that they can dps by just auto attacking.

Yeah sure ok.

Sure, let’s ignore the fact that thieves are also MUCH MORE squishier than Rev’s and that most of their damage will still come from stealth and that a thief just auto attacking is a dead thief anyway.

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Posted by: Hunter.4783

Hunter.4783

I read this as AA nerf by 30% to bring the rev in line with no compensation as Anet has historically only done that.

Nothing to see here boys. Time to move on to eles now as mesmer and rev prolly will be pushed out of meta.

There most likely be an unneeded necro buff too

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Posted by: scerevisiae.1972

scerevisiae.1972

Revenant and thief are both constrained by essentially the same mechanic - energy - so why is high auto-attack damage bad on one but ok on another?

Hammer #2 is totally op with a 2sec CD, but no mention of it.

I don’t get it.

downed state is bad for PVP

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Posted by: Gaaroth.2567

Gaaroth.2567

I can see the damage moved from auto to sword 2 and “call it a day” tbh. I hope base rev will get serious buffs so i dont have to look on this ugly herald anymore (looking at shiro junk heal and jalis).

Kinda funny how they want to nerf rev auto and buff thief auto at same time rofl.

same thinking, since they share the same class concept, with the fact that thief can gain initiative back in many way, increase the pool and they don’t spend it on utilities.
Kappa.

Anyway I’m not that worried, in fact if thhey shift the damage presumably on #2 this will help a bit when chasing opponents since #2 is ranged + chills.
If for “looking at defense” they want to nerf something, well they have to buff something else, because our current defense are the difference between life and death in a semi-decent pvp environment: Rev is squishy and we cannot stealth/zap away like teefs, active defense is all we got. I might be cool with a complete removal of shield#5 passive proc trait with something else. Or just bring in line ventari/jalis + relative specs and finally fix corruption spec to be a match with the current Mallyx

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Wat r u, casul?

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Posted by: Fade to Black.7042

Fade to Black.7042

Nerfing sword AA is a big mistake, because you’re left with:

-Precision strike is slow attack with hight cooldown. <- AA is faster which i doubt they’ll boost the dmg of this skill so much it’’ll out dps AA in it’s current state.

-Unrelenting assault dmg is pretty balanced, the only problem of this skill it should focus on main targed, and this skill consumes too much energy.

-Duelist preparation it’s almost useless in pvp and a defensive skill so you can’t put dmg in it.

- Grasping shadows this skill is so bugged most of the times you just use it while not pulling anything with you, you need to fix it first. Also cooldown too long to compete with AA.

In my point of view they should rework skill2 “precision strike” and replace with a new skill, or reduce the cooldown to almost nonexistant while greatly increasing the dmg of the skill.

Revenant AA is so important right now because every skill consumes so much energy most of the times i find myself just auto attaking my opponent empty on energy.

Make Unrelenting assault focus target and buff healing from all legends, buff damage from dwarf and demon skills.

(edited by Fade to Black.7042)

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

- Grasping shadows this skill is so bugged most of the times you just use it while not pulling anything with you, you need to fix it first. Also cooldown too long to compete with AA.

I want grasp shadow to be changed into knockdown and execution move..

Like dis https://youtu.be/nGOeAboAF5E?t=20m22s

Sword 2 indeed has to be reworked now. As for shacking wave its need a damage buff by ~120%, other counterattack skills hits like a truck, this one should not be different.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

If they want to change the reliance on AA they had best first fix the unreliable nature of skills and walls that plague it.

Unrelenting Assault – dying off when near a wall…just no.
Vengeful Hammers – again see above.

Kinda curious to see what direction this will take.

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Posted by: Azure.8670

Azure.8670

Fun you didn’t see an AA nerf coming you’re silly

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Posted by: icewyrm.5038

icewyrm.5038

Oh well, at least revs will still be the best class for mining nodes ;_;

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

Nerf Revenenat Auto attack so all their damage isn’t just on auto attack, buff theif auto attack so that they can dps by just auto attacking.

Yeah sure ok.

Sure, let’s ignore the fact that thieves are also MUCH MORE squishier than Rev’s and that most of their damage will still come from stealth and that a thief just auto attacking is a dead thief anyway.

Stealth/more uptime on full attack evasion offsets any squishy.

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Posted by: Kodiak.3281

Kodiak.3281

Anytime Karl is in charge you gotta clench them butt cheeks and hope you can still walk after they’re done. It’ll make you really appreciate the days of Roy being around super, super fast.

Also people talking about Bugs are pretty naive to the way Anet does things around here. They almost never focus on fixing bugs when they do balance stuff. It isn’t like “Oh, well, we’re going to nerf XYZ but we fixed ABC.” Most of the time they just nerf “XYZ” and figure they’ll get around to ABC whenever they can if ever. Other classes are still waiting years out for some of their bugs/issues to be addressed.

I honestly expected they’d be gutting our class going right after Herald and Shiro and making them largely worthless to be “competitive” with other worthless options like Jalis and Ventari. So anything not that is a welcome surprise, and anything on par with that was expected.

Kodiak X – Blackgate

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

By the way, if Sword AA (and Unrelenting Assault) gets hit too hard, all that will happen is everyone will be going condition/Mace autoattack with Mace 2 spam.

It’s not rocket science for where the rev (herald) meta will go.

Personally, I think it’s a mistake to blame it on Rev autoattacks as the issue when it’s clear that the rev energy mechanic is what severely limits it’s playstyle since utilities and weapon abilities are all tied to it. Thief initiative is tied to weapon attacks only. Rev energy is tied to both weapon attacks and utilities use (along with cooldowns on certain weapon attacks). To me, it appears the Rev energy costs are just too high (and the abilities need to be adjusted down for the energy reduction if need be).

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

I wouldn’t mind current Sword #5 scrapped entirely and replaced with damage ability.

What people also don’t realise that Slow from Downed state #1 will no longer affect stomping, which is a slight nerf in 1v1s, but not too bad.

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(edited by Rym.1469)

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

I wouldn’t mind current Sword #5 scrapped entirely and replaced with damage ability.

What people also don’t realise that Slow from Downed state #1 will no longer affect stomping, which is a slight nerf in 1v1s, but not too bad.

Tbh rev downstate was op due to slow. But now it may be the other way around as #3 sux hard.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

Simply put :

Nerfing revenant’s sword AA then improve :
- Add some direct damage on Phase traversal
- Slightly buff Banish enchantment and unyielding anguish direct damage
- Slightly buff Inspiring reinforcement direct damage
- Slightly buff Elemental blast damage and burst of strenght

Goal : Revenant use legend’s active skill in their rotation to achieve the DPS they are actually doing by just auto attacking and relying on upkeep skills.

NB.: Shifting active damage on legend’s skill use is smarter than breaking weapons skills that are almost balance. The known issue is that you lose DPS if using active skill that use energy instead of just auto attacking with your upkeep skill turned on. They need to give us a reason to use skills that consume energy and so balancing the damage output between legend active skills and upkeep skills is what’s necessary.

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: Ayestes.1273

Ayestes.1273

I just hope they consider PvE DPS as well with the sword auto change. Maybe reducing Impossible Odds upkeep by something to compensate, or as mentioned above by shifting some of the damage into #2 and #3.

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Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

Reve sword should do about same amount dps than warrior sword.

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

Reve sword should do about same amount dps than warrior sword.

Warrior has other DPS weapons like Axe and GS while Revenant only has Sword MH for most of their DPS.

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

Reve sword should do about same amount dps than warrior sword.

Someone is jelly and doesnt even understand difference between condi and power weapon. Id say warrior gs should do the same amount of dps as mesmer staff.

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Posted by: Froptimus.6741

Froptimus.6741

Kinda funny how they want to nerf rev auto and buff thief auto at same time rofl.

^ This. Thief dev sees Revs autoattacks and wants Thief more like that. Rev devs runs analytics and sees that autoattacks (+1 or +2 abilities) is the maximum damage. Legend Swap covers immediate defensive needs. No one talks big picture balance – round and round we go.

Thief probably ends up with a high-powered autoattack + free-form utility choices and skips away in glee. If Pistol thief gets its bounce trait back, look out.

I’m “main” thief and am working rev, so I read a lot on both forums. I don’t remember any thieves ever asking for more auto attack damage (maybe on pistol 1). I think we were as surprised as anyone that this was the direction anet is trying to buff thief.

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Posted by: Hunter.4783

Hunter.4783

Kinda funny how they want to nerf rev auto and buff thief auto at same time rofl.

^ This. Thief dev sees Revs autoattacks and wants Thief more like that. Rev devs runs analytics and sees that autoattacks (+1 or +2 abilities) is the maximum damage. Legend Swap covers immediate defensive needs. No one talks big picture balance – round and round we go.

Thief probably ends up with a high-powered autoattack + free-form utility choices and skips away in glee. If Pistol thief gets its bounce trait back, look out.

I’m “main” thief and am working rev, so I read a lot on both forums. I don’t remember any thieves ever asking for more auto attack damage (maybe on pistol 1). I think we were as surprised as anyone that this was the direction anet is trying to buff thief.

And this is why we are worried. Questionable balance changes are being made. Thief mechanics need to be more party friendly. Even if reef dmg is doubled they will never replace chrono ele or druid

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Posted by: Aomine.5012

Aomine.5012

Nerf sword, the least OP stuff of Rev in PVP , and ignore Banish Enchantment + Riposting Shadow?

Anet sure knows how to balance their game…..
It only screws up PVE people and nothing else.
Sword AA is never OP in PVP to begin with.

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

Kinda funny how they want to nerf rev auto and buff thief auto at same time rofl.

^ This. Thief dev sees Revs autoattacks and wants Thief more like that. Rev devs runs analytics and sees that autoattacks (+1 or +2 abilities) is the maximum damage. Legend Swap covers immediate defensive needs. No one talks big picture balance – round and round we go.

Thief probably ends up with a high-powered autoattack + free-form utility choices and skips away in glee. If Pistol thief gets its bounce trait back, look out.

I’m “main” thief and am working rev, so I read a lot on both forums. I don’t remember any thieves ever asking for more auto attack damage (maybe on pistol 1). I think we were as surprised as anyone that this was the direction anet is trying to buff thief.

And this is why we are worried. Questionable balance changes are being made. Thief mechanics need to be more party friendly. Even if reef dmg is doubled they will never replace chrono ele or druid

@Frop
Also the point you are trying to make is related to my point. The ANet devs don’t read the players opinions (generally speaking) on the forums. They go into their silo and do things. What’s more troublesome is that silo wall is right next to another ANet dev silo wall and neither talk to one another…at least that is how it all appears.

ANet devs welcome to respond the goal of not just one class improvements but balance against other classes with extremely similar mechanics.

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Posted by: Froptimus.6741

Froptimus.6741

@Frop
Also the point you are trying to make is related to my point. The ANet devs don’t read the players opinions (generally speaking) on the forums. They go into their silo and do things. What’s more troublesome is that silo wall is right next to another ANet dev silo wall and neither talk to one another…at least that is how it all appears.

ANet devs welcome to respond the goal of not just one class improvements but balance against other classes with extremely similar mechanics.

I agree on both points. There are pages and pages on every class forum with suggestions by players that are using the classes every day, but there seems to be little acknowledgement of this resource…and little collaboration been dev groups, both class-to-class and mode-to-mode (pve,wvw,pvp, etc.)

Blog on upcoming changes to Rev Class

in Revenant

Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

I just hope that they will shave Power scalling a bit instead of nerfing base damage. Base sword damage might even need a slight buff, it’s the incredibly high power scalling that makes it ridiculous.

There is no such thing as “base damage” in GW2. All skill damage is dervied solely from a weapon’s innate damage stat (universal to all classes), the user’s power, and a skill coefficient that gets multiplied by the other two. Damage modifiers are thrown into the mix, and then the whole thing is divided by the target’s armor.

So really, what you’re asking for is nerfing the Rev’s sword damage coefficient, which, seeing as it’s the only thing that changes on a class-by-class basis, is exactly what they’re doing, because the coefficient (damage) on MH sword autos for the revenant were/are too high.

That being said, CoR seriously needs to be toned down, and Cruel Repercussion reworked.