Guild Wars 2

So let’s see:

Raids: sabetha dps meters put the rev 5th peaking at 19k dps. Just for reference hammer guard is 24k or so.
Basically the raid gains dps by swapping revs with guards and having chronos use concentration sigil and Chronomancers rune.
ps war takes care of 25 might stacks.
Fury is the most common buff in the game
Guardians also provide quickness further diminishing the strength of feet of nature.
Eles and thieves are both 25k+

Spvp : necros everywhere, condi spam. Revs are now a joke

WvW : no one plays this. Thanks to the lamers qQing hammer is now useless.

Let’s recap:
5th highest dps.
Mediocre suoport.
No decent range weapon
Sub optimal condi build (obal rated it at 15k dps, theoritical, and non comprtituve)
Only 1 optimal weapon
Half the legends and utilities, as well as 2 trait lines are worthless
Only 2 working underwater legends

…,
Bravo Anet, Bravo

Revenants aren’t any bad in PvP. You just don’t stack them anymore, but they’re still awesome. Yes, you basically instadie if you face competent Reaper 1v1, but most builds melt vs. it anyway. I like Power Revenant more now than before and I feel like going full damage with Berserker amulet and fully offensive setup is both more rewarding and risky than before. There’s also re-incarnation of my old Celestial Mallyx with Mercenary’s Amulet I like and Viper’s build is still good with Leadership rune replacing Durability.

I even use Sword OH from time to time because it works nice with Precision Strike and isn’t that far behind Shield now, although pathing issues on Sword #5 and it’s overall reliability can still suck.

Yes, ArenaNet stopped developing the profession, at least for now, but it’s still okay.

You sum up good. But i’m afraid that revenant is now in the only hands of balance team… See the state of guardian or warrior. Revenant are gonna be the same i’m afraid. The only thing they know is nerf by 10% and up by 5%. When we actually need traitlines rework, legends skills rework too and bugfixes.

Its quite funny how they nerf all heavy into oblivion and letting medium/light dominate.
Remember bunker guard? Replaced by much stronger d/d ele. A cloth that can tank better than heavy specialized in bunkering.. like please. The hate against heavy is real in this game.

As for wvw indeed its quite hard to find a rev, on my serv matchup at least. I see bombs from necros all day long but hey.. lets nerf hammer

Boonfarting is unfortunately what keeps Revenant up and attractive, despite dps nerfs.

They can provide might, fury and protection constantly, as well making alacrity a lot better.

Ps warrior is better at might stacks.
Hammer guard is better at protection application AND does 5k higher personal dps
You can maintain aclarity with sigil of concentration and runes of Chronomancers with the help of a DH In the group.

Hence why I’m worried about revs

Then why are guardians persona non grata in Raids over Revenants?

Hunter.4783:

Ps warrior is better at might stacks.
Hammer guard is better at protection application AND does 5k higher personal dps
You can maintain aclarity with sigil of concentration and runes of Chronomancers with the help of a DH In the group.

Hence why I’m worried about revs

1. Alacrity is not a boon. It’s also been nerfed to 33% (see mesmer forums for all the complaints)

2. This thread , like many others on all the profession forums (not just revenant) , is super dramatic : unlike other professions unless you started with Heart of Thorns then revenant was not always your main character

3. Hammer guardian is not common compared to GS because it has a slow attack chain , guardian forums want it buffed

4. Perma fury is nothing to sneeze at ; roiling mists makes it so that a revenant can slot Valkyrie over Berserker’s

5. Herald stacking still gives additional might stacks even if you won’t get extra fury /swiftness/regen.

6. Heralds have hardening persistence ( + 40 armor per upkeep) as well so that means they can afford to put in more offensive gear yet remain more tanky than an equivalent specced warrior or guardian

7. For your Sabetha dps meter example, you did not specify what the revenant and hammer guardian were running and the party composition

7b. Eles and Thieves (in particular) deserve to be the highest DPS since they are the most fragile

8. The complaining and moaning about hammer nerf is unjustified, arenanet says the 0.5 second “cooldown” on damage from multiple revenants is an unintended bug

Instead of complaining about the “sky is falling” you ought to highlight what you feel is broken / needs fixing. See https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-bug-list

@Infusion:

4. Perma Fury IS pretty nice, albeit not unreplaceable. Used to be done by Eles before. Berserker’s is still better to run than Valkyrie’s for the most part.

5. That trait doesn’t actually give much Might.

6. It’s at most an extra 400 toughness, which is nice, but doesn’t make a big difference against high damage attacks.

7. IIRC, they’re both full damage and the Rev is running Jalis/Glint. Also, Anet changed Rev Sword because we relied too much on Autos, but Hammer Guard seems fine to them (as do Thief Dagger autos)? It’s weird.

7b. Arguable that Eles should be included there because unlike Thieves, they have a lot more support, but they outdamage everyone, including Thieves.

Revenants are still one of the best classes in PvP, so you are wrong there. Can’t speak for WvW because WvW is a joke right now. But they still make great roamers and the people that stopped playing Rev in WvW are probably the QQers that complained that they get hit 10K CoR’s every 2 seconds and have it double hit as well. You would have to be in denial if you didn’t think that was ridiculous.

after reading the OP

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=laugh+harder

It’s all about Fury. It’s not such a common boon for long fights as it might seem.
Outside of Facet of Darkness, tiger pets are probably the only reliable source of long lasting AoE Fury so, for a 10 man setup, unless you run a Druid or a combination of classes that can provide enough small doses of Fury (PS running FGJ instead of signet + DH with FMW + trickery DD, for example) in the actual subgroup, Fury upkeep might easily become a serious problem.

Vargamonth.2047:

It’s all about Fury. It’s not such a common boon for long fights as it might seem.
Outside of Facet of Darkness, tiger pets are probably the only reliable source of long lasting AoE Fury so, for a 10 man setup, unless you run a Druid or a combination of classes that can provide enough small doses of Fury (PS running FGJ instead of signet + DH with FMW + trickery DD, for example) in the actual subgroup, Fury upkeep might easily become a serious problem.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Persisting_Flames

That used to be more than enough for 5 people.
Now, I’m not saying being a Furybot isn’t a fine job for a Herald, but it’s not irreplaceable, it’s just an easier (aka braindead) job for us.

Malchior.5732:

Vargamonth.2047:

It’s all about Fury. It’s not such a common boon for long fights as it might seem.
Outside of Facet of Darkness, tiger pets are probably the only reliable source of long lasting AoE Fury so, for a 10 man setup, unless you run a Druid or a combination of classes that can provide enough small doses of Fury (PS running FGJ instead of signet + DH with FMW + trickery DD, for example) in the actual subgroup, Fury upkeep might easily become a serious problem.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Persisting_Flames

That used to be more than enough for 5 people.
Now, I’m not saying being a Furybot isn’t a fine job for a Herald, but it’s not irreplaceable, it’s just an easier (aka braindead) job for us.

The problem with persisting flames is that eles dont run the blast finisher heal anymore, and even if it could be possible to slot arcane wave instead of something else, a hammer guardian is a real pain to realibly blast fire fields instead of light ones.

I wouldn’t call Heralds fury bots, they do quite a lot more things than that. They help with the quickness uptime (also might allow the PS to build slightly more offensively), they have a party wide ferocity boost, they can provide really high uptime of protection, they have good CC capabilities if needed, and the damage output isn’t THAT bad.
Hammer DHs just share some of these capabilites, and that’s when the fury makes the difference. A DH just doesn’t fit as many group composition as a Rev does.

So essentially:
- Perma Fury
- More Quickness out of Chronos
- +150 Ferocity for team
- Decent damage

Protection is mostly covered by Hammer Guard and the Revenant drops a good chunk of DPS to CC (Staff is the only really good access of CC). Regardless, I don’t think Rev is trash, but these team comps wouldn’t fall apart if the Revenant was missing or replaced(this group DID kill Sabetha with 6 people after all).

Now, if Herald didn’t exist, THEN I’d say Revenant was trash. No permanent team-wide boons, no facet of nature, and the DPS simply isn’t high enough compared to Thief and Ele, of which the latter can also provide a ton of support (and pull off a better healer too…) while doing a ton of damage.

Malchior.5732:

So essentially:
- Perma Fury
- More Quickness out of Chronos
- +150 Ferocity for team
- Decent damage

Protection is mostly covered by Hammer Guard and the Revenant drops a good chunk of DPS to CC (Staff is the only really good access of CC). Regardless, I don’t think Rev is trash, but these team comps wouldn’t fall apart if the Revenant was missing or replaced(this group DID kill Sabetha with 6 people after all).

Now, if Herald didn’t exist, THEN I’d say Revenant was trash. No permanent team-wide boons, no facet of nature, and the DPS simply isn’t high enough compared to Thief and Ele, of which the latter can also provide a ton of support (and pull off a better healer too…) while doing a ton of damage.

The thing is, you don’t bring both a hammer guard and a revenant in the same group.
Unless the fight makes really good use of some of the guardian “exclusive” tools, protection is the main reason to bring a hammer guard (otherwise you could just swap it for another top DPS class like a tempest).
Once you have one of these characters to provide protection, the other one feels far less useful and can easily be replaced.

About the 6-man Sabetha kill, you have to notice that the main source of fury is the druid’s tiger, which is not in the main group. That’s next to impossible to reliably accomplish with another 4 players around.
You could remove a tempest to fit the druid in, and then copy the exact same composition for the second subgroup and it would be fine. Replacing a tempest with a thief and slotting FGJ on the PS could probably work too.
Replacing the DH with a Herald and keeping everything else untouched, however, is also a perfectly viable solution.

Herald is definitely not mandatory (which I don’t think is a bad thing), and core revenant is absolutely trash tier (most core specs are tbh, this one just sucks a lot more), that’s something I agree with you.

Herald right now is taken mainly for
F2
Permanente fury
150 ferocity buff

Out of those 3, F2 buff is the only important one. Any nerf to F2 automatically puts the rev to trash tier as they have nothing else to offer that no other class does better. The discrepancy between hammer guard and rev is so large that even another minor nerf to rev will kick em from raids permanently.

Remember that F2 is mainly used for quickness and guard elite also provides quickness

Hunter.4783:

The discrepancy between hammer guard and rev is so large that even another minor nerf to rev will kick em from raids permanently.

The discrepancy is only that high when you just factor in the personal DPS.
If DH does 24k DPS and herald 19k, that would mean DH is doing 26.31% more damage than herald, which is definitely A LOT.
Thsi doesn’t account, however, for the effect of those 150 ferocity additional points over another 4 players. If the crit damage on full berserker gear is around 215% and 150 ferocity means a 10% increase in critical damage, assuming 100% crit chance, every other character would see its phisical damage increased by about 4.5%.
If the herald is mid tier DPS and we can take the herald DPS as group wide average, this little boon can easily reduce the discrepancy to below 10% levels, which is still a noticeable amount, but doesn’t exactly allow for a lot of other sacrifices in the group composition.

Hunter.4783:

So let’s see:

Raids: sabetha dps meters put the rev 5th peaking at 19k dps. Just for reference hammer guard is 24k or so.
Basically the raid gains dps by swapping revs with guards and having chronos use concentration sigil and Chronomancers rune.
ps war takes care of 25 might stacks.
Fury is the most common buff in the game
Guardians also provide quickness further diminishing the strength of feet of nature.
Eles and thieves are both 25k+

Spvp : necros everywhere, condi spam. Revs are now a joke

WvW : no one plays this. Thanks to the lamers qQing hammer is now useless.

Let’s recap:
5th highest dps.
Mediocre suoport.
No decent range weapon
Sub optimal condi build (obal rated it at 15k dps, theoritical, and non comprtituve)
Only 1 optimal weapon
Half the legends and utilities, as well as 2 trait lines are worthless
Only 2 working underwater legends

…,
Bravo Anet, Bravo

You are so wrong. Watch PvP. I’ll bet pretty much every top team has at least 1 rev and maybe 2 depending on their players.

Rev is still top 3.

Vargamonth.2047:

Hunter.4783:

The discrepancy between hammer guard and rev is so large that even another minor nerf to rev will kick em from raids permanently.

The discrepancy is only that high when you just factor in the personal DPS.
If DH does 24k DPS and herald 19k, that would mean DH is doing 26.31% more damage than herald, which is definitely A LOT.
Thsi doesn’t account, however, for the effect of those 150 ferocity additional points over another 4 players. If the crit damage on full berserker gear is around 215% and 150 ferocity means a 10% increase in critical damage, assuming 100% crit chance, every other character would see its phisical damage increased by about 4.5%.
If the herald is mid tier DPS and we can take the herald DPS as group wide average, this little boon can easily reduce the discrepancy to below 10% levels, which is still a noticeable amount, but doesn’t exactly allow for a lot of other sacrifices in the group composition.

Keep in mind guardians also offer group wide quickness. Which is probably equal or higher than the ferocity buff.

Yes in ideal situations you are supposed to have 100% quickness uptime but in practical settings it’s not always the case.

Right now revs are kept just for the F2 buff making a true 1 trick pony…

Vargamonth.2047:

Hunter.4783:

The discrepancy between hammer guard and rev is so large that even another minor nerf to rev will kick em from raids permanently.

The discrepancy is only that high when you just factor in the personal DPS.
If DH does 24k DPS and herald 19k, that would mean DH is doing 26.31% more damage than herald, which is definitely A LOT.
Thsi doesn’t account, however, for the effect of those 150 ferocity additional points over another 4 players. If the crit damage on full berserker gear is around 215% and 150 ferocity means a 10% increase in critical damage, assuming 100% crit chance, every other character would see its phisical damage increased by about 4.5%.
If the herald is mid tier DPS and we can take the herald DPS as group wide average, this little boon can easily reduce the discrepancy to below 10% levels, which is still a noticeable amount, but doesn’t exactly allow for a lot of other sacrifices in the group composition.

Keep in mind guardians also offer group wide quickness. Which is probably equal or higher than the ferocity buff.

Yes in ideal situations you are supposed to have 100% quickness uptime but in practical settings it’s not always the case.

Right now revs are kept just for the F2 buff making a true 1 trick pony…

Burtnik.5218:

Its quite funny how they nerf all heavy into oblivion and letting medium/light dominate.
Remember bunker guard? Replaced by much stronger d/d ele. A cloth that can tank better than heavy specialized in bunkering.. like please. The hate against heavy is real in this game.

As for wvw indeed its quite hard to find a rev, on my serv matchup at least. I see bombs from necros all day long but hey.. lets nerf hammer

i cant agree more.

i do feel weird about this, why light and medium dominated heavy class ? so actually whats the point on having the class divided by armor ? is it only for fashion ?

in other games, heavy is considered tanky, no sorry, not considered, but ‘it is’ tanky.
but here in this game, it doesnt mean much, which make me wondering whats anet intention actually is.

Infusion.7149:

Hunter.4783:

Ps warrior is better at might stacks.
Hammer guard is better at protection application AND does 5k higher personal dps
You can maintain aclarity with sigil of concentration and runes of Chronomancers with the help of a DH In the group.

Hence why I’m worried about revs

1. Alacrity is not a boon. It’s also been nerfed to 33% (see mesmer forums for all the complaints)

2. This thread , like many others on all the profession forums (not just revenant) , is super dramatic : unlike other professions unless you started with Heart of Thorns then revenant was not always your main character

3. Hammer guardian is not common compared to GS because it has a slow attack chain , guardian forums want it buffed

4. Perma fury is nothing to sneeze at ; roiling mists makes it so that a revenant can slot Valkyrie over Berserker’s

5. Herald stacking still gives additional might stacks even if you won’t get extra fury /swiftness/regen.

6. Heralds have hardening persistence ( + 40 armor per upkeep) as well so that means they can afford to put in more offensive gear yet remain more tanky than an equivalent specced warrior or guardian

7. For your Sabetha dps meter example, you did not specify what the revenant and hammer guardian were running and the party composition

7b. Eles and Thieves (in particular) deserve to be the highest DPS since they are the most fragile

8. The complaining and moaning about hammer nerf is unjustified, arenanet says the 0.5 second “cooldown” on damage from multiple revenants is an unintended bug

---

Instead of complaining about the “sky is falling” you ought to highlight what you feel is broken / needs fixing. See https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-bug-list

I read through your list so now read through mine.

1. Why in the world do you think Ele and Theif deserve to the best DPS? I am actually curious. Because with that logic, D/D ele should never have been the tankiest class in the game for nearly a year.

2. Through all your points you fail to mention what the point of a revenant is. Because ANET doesn’t seem to know either. They nerf the two most used elites with out even adjusting the most unused one. I know crazy to think they’d BALANCE the class in a balance patch

3. Please post to the threads you are referencing. I’d love to read other classes complaints to get a better perspective. I can’t seem to find them.

4. My main was a revenant. I since quit the game because I got sick and tired of over nerfs & over buffs. I used to main as a Guardian, before that a Ranger. In all honesty my faith in ANET’s balancing skills are at all time low. A person with only 1 hour of playing time could see these patch notes as a disaster. (I’d know because the person I convinced playing; stopped when he saw the preview notes).

5. You can call threads like these super dramatic, but ANET is bleeding players.

TL : DR? Honestly doesn’t matter GG Anet

I was pretty excited reading about the updates. but when I made it to the rev section all joy drained away. I’m not interested in playing a class whose main point is to just stand around other people and buff them while doing mediocre dmg. I couldn’t stay logged in looking at how they butchered it all, so now I’m just going back to my leave of absence for another few months. I really wanted to play again too…

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

Infusion.7149:

Hunter.4783:

Ps warrior is better at might stacks.
Hammer guard is better at protection application AND does 5k higher personal dps
You can maintain aclarity with sigil of concentration and runes of Chronomancers with the help of a DH In the group.

Hence why I’m worried about revs

1. Alacrity is not a boon. It’s also been nerfed to 33% (see mesmer forums for all the complaints)

2. This thread , like many others on all the profession forums (not just revenant) , is super dramatic : unlike other professions unless you started with Heart of Thorns then revenant was not always your main character

3. Hammer guardian is not common compared to GS because it has a slow attack chain , guardian forums want it buffed

4. Perma fury is nothing to sneeze at ; roiling mists makes it so that a revenant can slot Valkyrie over Berserker’s

5. Herald stacking still gives additional might stacks even if you won’t get extra fury /swiftness/regen.

6. Heralds have hardening persistence ( + 40 armor per upkeep) as well so that means they can afford to put in more offensive gear yet remain more tanky than an equivalent specced warrior or guardian

7. For your Sabetha dps meter example, you did not specify what the revenant and hammer guardian were running and the party composition

7b. Eles and Thieves (in particular) deserve to be the highest DPS since they are the most fragile

8. The complaining and moaning about hammer nerf is unjustified, arenanet says the 0.5 second “cooldown” on damage from multiple revenants is an unintended bug

---

Instead of complaining about the “sky is falling” you ought to highlight what you feel is broken / needs fixing. See https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-bug-list

I read through your list so now read through mine.

1. Why in the world do you think Ele and Theif deserve to the best DPS? I am actually curious. Because with that logic, D/D ele should never have been the tankiest class in the game for nearly a year.

2. Through all your points you fail to mention what the point of a revenant is. Because ANET doesn’t seem to know either. They nerf the two most used elites with out even adjusting the most unused one. I know crazy to think they’d BALANCE the class in a balance patch

3. Please post to the threads you are referencing. I’d love to read other classes complaints to get a better perspective. I can’t seem to find them.

4. My main was a revenant. I since quit the game because I got sick and tired of over nerfs & over buffs. I used to main as a Guardian, before that a Ranger. In all honesty my faith in ANET’s balancing skills are at all time low. A person with only 1 hour of playing time could see these patch notes as a disaster. (I’d know because the person I convinced playing; stopped when he saw the preview notes).

5. You can call threads like these super dramatic, but ANET is bleeding players.

TL : DR? Honestly doesn’t matter GG Anet

Actually it’s not super dramatic it’s reality. Look about the state of guardian (spirit weapons untouched since 2 years, loosing tomes of valor and wisdom, “elite” specialization is a copy/paste of a ranger playstyle…) look about the state of warrior, they have been balancing it since 3 years. Some months before HOT the class finally become balanced but now there is released to trash tier and actually NEED talents changes to be balanced again (but the balance team only know to nerf by 10% and up by 5% things). Look at revenant state now, the last class which have been rushed for marketing purpose of releasing HOT in time. The class is full of glitches, only have 2 legends usable and is stuck in glint’s stance, making the class a big autoattacker class (kinda dynamic playstyle isn’t it?). Revenant is clearly in beta state and you put faith in balance team to change legend’s skills and talents traitlines? (yeah coz Roy has go if you don’t know) If you do you clearly are an highly optimistic guy.

Hunter.4783:

So let’s see:

Raids: sabetha dps meters put the rev 5th peaking at 19k dps. Just for reference

No decent range weapon

Sub optimal condi build (obal rated it at 15k dps, theoritical, and non comprtituve)

These right here are the biggest issues imo. Rev’s in PvP are fine. They’re still awesome, they’re just not broken anymore. All the issues, imo, are with PvE. Just like most classes(and this is an issue with the entire game’s balance) there’s only one really viable build. Sure, there’s always going to be “the best build” but the difference between that and the next best shouldn’t be as big of difference as it currently is. The condi build, for example, is another option for dps but is completely and utterly sub-par when compared to the power set-up. Also, the condi build that was rated by obal wasn’t theoretical, it was tested. I can attest to it as well, as that is my primary spec. It’s waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay underpowered when compared to other condi classes and really only needs a few tweeks to bring it up to snuff. The lack of a ranged option for condi is also pretty inhibiting. Don’t get me wrong, I like melee, but not having a condi-focused ranged weapon makes my kittenty dps even worse when I have to be at range.

SPLIT THE SPECS BETWEEN THE MODES ARENANET!!!! PLEASE!!!!! THIS INSANITY HAS GONE ON LONG ENOUGH!!!

iroh.2871:

SPLIT THE SPECS BETWEEN THE MODES ARENANET!!!! PLEASE!!!!! THIS INSANITY HAS GONE ON LONG ENOUGH!!!

I can’t agree more on this ^

MrHarses.6801:

iroh.2871:

SPLIT THE SPECS BETWEEN THE MODES ARENANET!!!! PLEASE!!!!! THIS INSANITY HAS GONE ON LONG ENOUGH!!!

I can’t agree more on this ^

unfortunately ANET are too stubborn to do this, and won’t simply because this might create confusion amongst people wanting to dip their toes into PvP. -_-

Onto the topic, I think revenant’s biggest problem right now is a case of loose ends and unfinished concepts. Shiro is fine in his trait line and skills. Jalis though is severely lacking in the tank department, being outdone by glint. Inspiring reinforcement needs to be faster in the road construction. In fact rather than the rain of bricks, I think it should be a rolling out the red carpet where your character points and the road unfurls. And yes, make it a stunbreaker. Retribution also needs some adjustment, as it doesn’t really do anything to increase your tankiness outside of Jalis apart from one or two traits. Plus you have the mandatory Fall damage reduction and Stun Protectjon traits in his line. Take the fall one and put it in mallyx.

Mallyx is my favorite legend, but after he got gutted he needs some love in his trait line horribly, as it’s still set up to run based on old mallyx. I think something that’d be cool with embrace the darkness would be that with every pulse, you’d draw conditions from allies onto yourself and gain 1 second of resistance, then when you end the transformation, your character sort of explodes, releasing all those conditions he has on him back onto his enemies. Might need some work but I think it’s doable. Corruption needs mainly bug fixes I think, like pulsating pestilence. Also that heal on incoming conditions trait could use some love? Maybe ditch the ICD, I mean Comon, you’re a lightning rod for conditions and if your resistance gets corrupted you’ll go down quick.

Ventari….not gonna touch on him as there are a lot of topics on ventari already.

TheLastNobody.8319:

unfortunately ANET are too stubborn to do this, and won’t simply because this might create confusion amongst people wanting to dip their toes into PvP. -_-

I’ve seen this said before and the excuse still remains stupid. There are already a multitude of things you need learn when you enter PvP for the first time. Adding one extra thing to that list wouldn’t be that hard. Not to mention, “confusing the players” would imply that ArenaNet thinks their consumers are stupid. Not good.

There’s not a good excuse to avoid this any longer. FIX! IT!

iroh.2871:

Rev’s in PvP are fine. They’re still awesome, they’re just not broken anymore.

Say that again after using Jalis or Ventari…

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

Infusion.7149:

Hunter.4783:

Ps warrior is better at might stacks.
Hammer guard is better at protection application AND does 5k higher personal dps
You can maintain aclarity with sigil of concentration and runes of Chronomancers with the help of a DH In the group.

Hence why I’m worried about revs

1. Alacrity is not a boon. It’s also been nerfed to 33% (see mesmer forums for all the complaints)

2. This thread , like many others on all the profession forums (not just revenant) , is super dramatic : unlike other professions unless you started with Heart of Thorns then revenant was not always your main character

3. Hammer guardian is not common compared to GS because it has a slow attack chain , guardian forums want it buffed

4. Perma fury is nothing to sneeze at ; roiling mists makes it so that a revenant can slot Valkyrie over Berserker’s

5. Herald stacking still gives additional might stacks even if you won’t get extra fury /swiftness/regen.

6. Heralds have hardening persistence ( + 40 armor per upkeep) as well so that means they can afford to put in more offensive gear yet remain more tanky than an equivalent specced warrior or guardian

7. For your Sabetha dps meter example, you did not specify what the revenant and hammer guardian were running and the party composition

7b. Eles and Thieves (in particular) deserve to be the highest DPS since they are the most fragile

8. The complaining and moaning about hammer nerf is unjustified, arenanet says the 0.5 second “cooldown” on damage from multiple revenants is an unintended bug

---

Instead of complaining about the “sky is falling” you ought to highlight what you feel is broken / needs fixing. See https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-bug-list

I read through your list so now read through mine.

1. Why in the world do you think Ele and Theif deserve to the best DPS? I am actually curious. Because with that logic, D/D ele should never have been the tankiest class in the game for nearly a year.

2. Through all your points you fail to mention what the point of a revenant is. Because ANET doesn’t seem to know either. They nerf the two most used elites with out even adjusting the most unused one. I know crazy to think they’d BALANCE the class in a balance patch

3. Please post to the threads you are referencing. I’d love to read other classes complaints to get a better perspective. I can’t seem to find them.

4. My main was a revenant. I since quit the game because I got sick and tired of over nerfs & over buffs. I used to main as a Guardian, before that a Ranger. In all honesty my faith in ANET’s balancing skills are at all time low. A person with only 1 hour of playing time could see these patch notes as a disaster. (I’d know because the person I convinced playing; stopped when he saw the preview notes).

5. You can call threads like these super dramatic, but ANET is bleeding players.

TL : DR? Honestly doesn’t matter GG Anet

1a. Ele base stats are the most glass ; without the traits such as pre-nerf Diamond skin or Stone heart , anything with high power can burst it down. This is somewhat mitigated by Soothing Ice. Plus celestial stats don’t exist in PvP anymore. DD ele requires a higher skill cap than say warrior/necro/reaper/DH/druid/scrappers most of the time.
1b. Thief without stealth is basically reliant on dodges (i.e unhindered combatant); stealth can’t cap a point. Thief also has less range and the need for some condi damage to fully make use of poison/bleed unless using sword. If you watch PvP if a thief gets focused and all they are doing is auto-ing they implode , in contrast to necro/reaper , DH, druid, scrappers, or warrior.

2. “Channel legendary powers to slaughter foes and unleash chaos on the battlefield with our brand new profession: the revenant. Enter the field of battle heavily armored and equipped with the otherworldly powers of the Mists.” ; https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/revenant-the-master-of-the-mists/

3. I did before I posted here. See ele “staff 1 is underpowered” (what…), guardian :“hammer needs buff” , mesmer forum in general, engineers re: gyros, etc.

4. DH / Guardian is in a strong state right now, I’d go back to guardian if you really believe that Herald is weak despite people using it in PvE/PvP?

5. A thread titled “close to trash tier” for any class is dramatic

Varezenem.2813:

iroh.2871:

Rev’s in PvP are fine. They’re still awesome, they’re just not broken anymore.

Say that again after using Jalis or Ventari…

People use Jalis in PvE and WvW,despite the buggy hammers and the high energy cost for the taunt. Ventari needs help though.

Infusion.7149:

Varezenem.2813:

iroh.2871:

Rev’s in PvP are fine. They’re still awesome, they’re just not broken anymore.

Say that again after using Jalis or Ventari…

People use Jalis in PvE and WvW,despite the buggy hammers and the high energy cost for the taunt. Ventari needs help though.

I clearly referenced PvP not WvW or PvE haven’t seen anyone besides me using it.
Anyways Jalis is only used in PvE as a minor damage increase when you already have perma quickness, while he should be (in theory) used for control and some tanking.
I have never seen him being used in WvW but I would guess that he is only used for the hammers since road is terrible and RotGD too expensive for WvW.

Varezenem.2813:

Infusion.7149:

Varezenem.2813:

iroh.2871:

Rev’s in PvP are fine. They’re still awesome, they’re just not broken anymore.

Say that again after using Jalis or Ventari…

People use Jalis in PvE and WvW,despite the buggy hammers and the high energy cost for the taunt. Ventari needs help though.

I clearly referenced PvP not WvW or PvE haven’t seen anyone besides me using it.
Anyways Jalis is only used in PvE as a minor damage increase when you already have perma quickness, while he should be (in theory) used for control and some tanking.
I have never seen him being used in WvW but I would guess that he is only used for the hammers since road is terrible and RotGD too expensive for WvW.

Jalis is a meta for raids.

Does everything need to be perfectly viable everywhere? That is my question to you.

In PvP because of the faster pace, Jalis uses too much energy for the hammers; Inspiring reinforcement is of little use because it is team oriented ; Forced Engagement is basically 2s of taunt for a huge energy cost.

On the odd chance you run rev frontliner (possibly unlikely due to CoR bug being fixed today re: hits from multiple revs), Jalis is used in WvW when there’s boon corrupt everywhere. RotGD (Versed in Stone also , if you run a frontline rev the Close Quarters + Determined Resolution are useful) / vengeful hammers are not corruptable (if you have hardening persistence from Herald it’s also +280 armor since 7 energy upkeep).

Also Soothing Stone removes all conditions , when you have 10 conditions from a condi bomb or a boon corrupt well. It’s a backup for guardian protection.

Staff is a great weapon for frontline rev in WvW : the staff 5 (Surge of the Mists) skill breaks through formations easily, and staff 4 (Renewing Wave) has a condi cleanse so you don’t rely on eles or druids , although if you do have one you can blast the water field.

Offhand axe is good for pulling enemies in a choke, Temporal Rift preps enemies for line-type damage such as CoR.

Offhand sword on the other hand is great for trolling enemy commanders, it’s a pull (Grasping Shadow) on a low enough cooldown.

The road (Inspiring reinforcement) is semi-useful through a choke like the air keep turrets, although it is a bit expensive energy-wise and the stability is only one stack per pulse (although with Shared Empowerment it does give stacks of might). It applies weakness so it’s minor damage mitigation. You can blast it for swiftness too much like symbol of swiftness, or have people use leaps for daze.

Infusion.7149:

Also Soothing Stone removes all conditions

No, it removes 3 conditions and it only removes conditions after healing therefore the healing gets killed by poison.
Stability from road isn’t enough from what I’ve heard and it makes you stand in a place waiting to be AoEd.

Also in our case the answer is YES we have to have all our base legends be useful everywhere it’s a natural consequence of not being able to choose our utilities.

And I do mean useful not “Meta”.

It removes all types of conditions like Purifying Essence / Staff 4’s renewing wave , unlike Shiro’s Riposting Shadows. The fact that it removes conditions after the heal is just an oversight on Arenanet’s part.

Infusion.7149:

Jalis is a meta for raids.

Does everything need to be perfectly viable everywhere? That is my question to you.

This is a bit disingenuous.
Jalis is “meta” for raids solely because Hammers is a slight DPS increase when you have all boons permanently.
That doesn’t mean the other skills are fine.
Literally every other skill is lacking in some way.

And yes, for Revenant, every legend needs to be viable everywhere in some way, shape, or form. Right now, Jalis is used for damage in Raids, not tanking or control. Ventari is only really used for projectile defense in certain PvE encounters and Mallyx is only used for the +10% stats in PvE or Banish Enchantment/Resistance spam in PvP.
Glint and Shiro, being the most well-rounded legends, are used in almost every build (at least one of them).
Due to the nature of Revenant’s utilities, this is an issue and it’s only going to get worse when more elite specs are announced if it’s not addressed.

How is being ranked fifth out of nine on DPS alone (perfect middle rank) “close to trash tier”? To me, that speaks there is no busted mechanic in PvE going on for them (despite the case for WvW).

And the statements about sPvP are just blatantly untrue.

DeceiverX.8361:

And the statements about sPvP are just blatantly untrue.

Have you tried to use, our lord and savior, Ventari in SPvP?

Varezenem.2813:

DeceiverX.8361:

And the statements about sPvP are just blatantly untrue.

Have you tried to use, our lord and savior, Ventari in SPvP?

I did. Ventari Will one shot ppl.. wait.

I can also prevent enemy from capturing point. I just put tablet on mid and go somewhere, as long the tablet sis on point it prevent cap. Enemy team is usually hopeless vs me.

DeceiverX.8361:

How is being ranked fifth out of nine on DPS alone (perfect middle rank) “close to trash tier”? To me, that speaks there is no busted mechanic in PvE going on for them (despite the case for WvW).

And the statements about sPvP are just blatantly untrue.

Revenants provide decent support, but still do less damage than say, Guardians who can provide Perma-Protection, AoE Quickness and 25k DPS while mostly auto-attacking (the very thing Revenant was accused of). Elementalists can also do pretty good support, but they do a lot more damage (~30k DPS) if they want. Yea, they’re squishier, but they also have far more roles that they can cover and they can pull off most of ours better (healer, DPS, Condi).
This isn’t to say that Revenant is trash tier, but even now, we’re relegated to Fury duty and Facet of Nature. Technically, Eles can already give out Perma-Fury and Druids can give out a decent amount too so our best job is Facet of Nature. There’s no other reason to take a Revenant and if either of those get touched by Anet, which isn’t impossible knowing them, then yea, we could see ourselves being less desirable.
We can’t really push our DPS much further either: ~19k – 20k DPS is as good as it gets, no matter what. Again, not saying Revs are trash, but we’re definitely teetering. Although, I will say this: Herald is not trash, but core Revenant is GARBAGE. No good team support outside of that one Devastation trait and the currently-weak Ventari and lower DPS.

Also, in PvP (actually, all game modes), Jalis, Ventari and Mallyx without Herald are all kinda suffering.

Don’t get me wrong.

I’m just saying that the Revenant as a whole isn’t trash or really close to it. It’s not amazing, but it’s not trash.

Really the big issue atm is powercreep on most classes coming from HoT. A lot needs to be toned down, and yes, I agree the supportive options (Jalis/Ventari) and some of core Revenant need reworks/substantial changes that do not just entail numbers increases. This holds for a lot of builds/classes/trait lines, though, and is not unique to the Revenant.

Varezenem.2813:

iroh.2871:

Rev’s in PvP are fine. They’re still awesome, they’re just not broken anymore.

Say that again after using Jalis or Ventari…

Say Reaper is OP after using Greatsword in PvP.

u can sum up any Professions State by stating their most underwhelming choice, end of the day games based on Meta, the Meta ISNT Jalis or Ventari, the Meta ISNT greatsword Reaper…

NO PROFESSION IN GUILD WARS 2 IS PERFECT, no profession has everything currently viable to it and No profession has 0 Flaws or Needs of Improving.

Jalis and Ventari Suck deal with it, as far as Arena Net is concerned we have a viable Working build with Herald/Shiro, if u don’t like the playstyle quit the profession, ur never gonna see anything different. look at thiefs D/P Permanantly with 0 Variations apart from now staff (its elite) but either way D/P is continuously the meta for a thief, D/D S/D S/P don’t see gameplay anymore.

He is saying the Rev is Viable, it IS viable, in its working build…. he never said the professions complete, no profession is actually complete in the game, arena nets refusual of Overhauls or reworks has driven most of the qualities of the professions into the floor.

Ur complaining about revenant but what profession u really going to go to?

Guardian, be Locked into DH being the only viable thing.

Warrior and Suck in every quality.

Thief and be D/P for a lifetime and a half?

Engineer and have Scrapper hammer forced down ur throat?

Reaper and be a Condimancer again for prolly a Year before we see Elites fall from their Stands?

Ranger and be a Forever Support healer?…

Elementalist and be a forever Auramancer support with now after cele removal barely any damage just tankiness?

If ur looking for Diversity in ur Profession ur playing the wrong game.

Drayos.8759:

Varezenem.2813:

iroh.2871:

Rev’s in PvP are fine. They’re still awesome, they’re just not broken anymore.

Say that again after using Jalis or Ventari…

Say Reaper is OP after using Greatsword in PvP.

This is already an extremely flawed comparison.

First off, being OP doesn’t equate to being unusable.
Then, Reapers CAN use GS in PvP and do okay. It’s not amazing and could use some tweaks, but Power Reaper CAN work with GS (although GS is used for more niche situations than Dagger), it’s just over-shadowed by Condi Reaper at the moment.
You can’t really say the same for Jalis or Ventari (and arguably non-Herald Mallyx in PvP). They aren’t OP, they’re broken and almost completely unusable.

This is just a taste of how Mesmer feels right now.