Kidel, pls. Mallyx is one of—if not the—strongest legend in every game mode. Having that trait baseline would both make the legend necessary in PvP while trivializing the corruption line.
What about turning the idea around and making Demonic Defiance work for other stances as well? While Corruption will clearly work best when combined with Mallyx, this would give even non-Mallyx revenants an interesting potential tradeoff to help against conditions.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Kidel, pls. Mallyx is one of—if not the—strongest legend in every game mode. Having that trait baseline would both make the legend necessary in PvP while trivializing the corruption line.
what? with the great ability to kill yourself if you want to clean condis from your PuG / open world ? or due the fact that you can’t hold any condis on you while playing in an orga-group?
Mallyx is cool in WvW due UA and the chaos this creates as well as PvP due great boon Strip and again UA … but the legend-mechanic itself is just brolen atm.
Mallyx works great on paper but thats it.
But Kidel is right, everyone and their mothers picks this trait – it must not be baseline but i totally see its place on a minor trait.
edit:
i gave it a second thought – actually you can’t play mallyx without having it traited
Kidel is right – it needs to be baseline or every mallyx skill should provide its resistance
you are just a pure victim for your enemies if you use mallyx stuff without the trait
but again: IMHO Mallyx is broken as hell – it NEEDS ways to get rid of conditions
it is not funny to suck up >60seconds of cripple or burning – but yaay 4secs resistance ..
You already gain resistance base-line with pain absorption you gain even more with the trait on.
Part of me says these kind of traits should work with all elites regardless of current legend stance to give them more desirability/viability in other builds and free up these you must take this trait-line with this legend situations.
At the very least Resistance should pulse while in embrace the dark to make the trait less mandatory.
The other options up against demonic defiance are very crappy in all honesty. They will almost never see usage so they either need to be buffed/reworked or demonic has to be base.
I touched on this on a suggestion post for the Corruption trait line, but I feel the issue is not that Demoniac Defiance should be baseline, but that it makes all other Adept traits useless since you are always going to pick it. I would much prefer to turn it into a Corruption minor so we could have more freedom in the Corruption trait line, but I feel Roy may not like that idea since all traits on trait lines that boost a legend are optional, and not minors/obligatory.
I would like to see Demonic Defiance be a grandmaster trait and the other grandmasters made sufficiently strong so that there is actually a choice for grandmaster slot.
Demonic Defiance for condition tanking
Maniacal Persistence for direct damage (but needs to be made good)
Diabolic Inferno for condition damage.
Pulsating Pestilence does not seem that good, and could probably move to Adept to replace Demonic Defiance.
I would like to see Demonic Defiance be a grandmaster trait and the other grandmasters made sufficiently strong so that there is actually a choice for grandmaster slot.
Demonic Defiance for condition tanking
Maniacal Persistence for direct damage (but needs to be made good)
Diabolic Inferno for condition damage.
Pulsating Pestilence does not seem that good, and could probably move to Adept to replace Demonic Defiance.
I agree with this, it’s really grandmaster-worthy. It really is a defining trait as this thread has indicated.
At the very least Resistance should pulse while in embrace the dark to make the trait less mandatory.
That would make Embrace the Darkness a LOT more powerful than it currently is…
I think Replenishing Despair might be what’s intended to offset the conditions you want to collect while running Embrace the Darkness. Of course, that’s competing against Demonic Defiance, which is probably the better choice as it also lets you ignore the debilitating conditions you give to yourself with the other Legendary Demon Stance skills.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
One point I can 100% agree with is that Embrace the Darkness if traited with Demonic Defiance should apply that resistance every couple seconds or has it’s cast times and aftercasts removed.
Pulsating Pestilience trait would’ve been awesome if I could control it. It’s such a good, but entirely passive proc and 75% time it gets wasted. Swapping it with Defiance is okay I guess, but I’d rather have Resistance as Mallyx-specific and regular cleanses somewhere else.
Since we will likely see one Retribution Master slot freeing up as Roy announced, I’d suggest something like that:
Breath of the Great Dwarf®
After using a healing skill, incoming conditions will be converted into boons. Lasts 3 seconds. 15s ICD. Combat-Only.
This would make this Specialization much more desirable along with changes to GM traits I’ve suggested in stickied feedback thread, wouldn’t give us Condition removal, however it would synergize greatly with Glint and Mallyx and Shiro (encourages staying in combat) and bring more strategy to using our heals. And it has decent counterplay.
Oh and in case of Glint, it could trigger after our better Defiant Stance fades, like Protection from Glint’s trait should (I hope!)
A closer approximation to Breath of the Great Dwarf would be to heal allies and remove Burning from all allies thus healed. If that’s too specific, it could remove a condition from all allies, remove other damaging conditions as well as Burning, or some other variation.
Or Breath of the Great Dwarf could be applied to Rite of the Great Dwarf… and give all allies under the effect immunity to Burning for the duration. Or just plain Resistance, but that might need to be a GM trait…
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
A closer approximation to Breath of the Great Dwarf would be to heal allies and remove Burning from all allies thus healed. If that’s too specific, it could remove a condition from all allies, remove other damaging conditions as well as Burning, or some other variation.
Or Breath of the Great Dwarf could be applied to Rite of the Great Dwarf… and give all allies under the effect immunity to Burning for the duration. Or just plain Resistance, but that might need to be a GM trait…
Yeah, but we already have Eluding Nullification and countering one specifc condition isn’t really great. It wrecks Burning-oriented builds and does absolutely nothing with non-Burning Condi builds. Countering or cleansing specific conditions has sense if their side effects are harmful for your playstyle i.e. removing Poison if you heal (old Ranger’s NMagic Evasive Purity), movement impairing effects if you have to be super mobile (Shiro’s setup). Removing just damage is rather niche and cheesy. Sure, Ele has that but Ele is cheesy as hell.
I wouldn’t add more to Rite Elite. With reduced cast time and cost(?) I think it will be all right. Adding too much stuff to it would lead to nerfs or bumping the Energy cost.
I’m using old GW1 names as sentimental throwbacks and sometimes try to preserve the theme. In this case, part of general theme was removing a condition, so I re-used it. Importing whole skills from first game to the second isn’t worth it, most of times, because combat systems are so different.
Oh and I’d suggest adding an icon if the trait is avalible to use. Makes using it more predictable for both the Revenant and his opponents.
Mallyx abilities should get base resistance and be balanced around their energy cost. Demonic defiance should be just an extra bonus if anything.
10 energy/1 sec resistance would do it. Right now Mallyx is not well designed..hes not weak but..the olny thing we do is pain absord for maximum possible resistance uptime and maybe copy conditions which doesnt even take advantage of current stacks we have on ourself. Whats the point of keeping 20 stacks of burning which can insta kill rev if resistance get stripped?
Also as noted embrance should pulse resistance, it has high cost, tiny radius, and copy just one condition stack. I would like to keep animation as it looks cool and fitting actually.. Removing it would be a mistake imho and could be used to abuse resistance.
At the very least Resistance should pulse while in embrace the dark to make the trait less mandatory.
That would make Embrace the Darkness a LOT more powerful than it currently is…
I think Replenishing Despair might be what’s intended to offset the conditions you want to collect while running Embrace the Darkness. Of course, that’s competing against Demonic Defiance, which is probably the better choice as it also lets you ignore the debilitating conditions you give to yourself with the other Legendary Demon Stance skills.
I agree, Replenishing Despair and Demonic Defiance in general aim to do the same thing, but Demonic Defiance is much better at it. These two should not be on the same tier.
I personally think that Demonic Defiance is too powerful to be made baseline, I think it needs to remain a Corruption trait. I still propose the trait be a Major Grandmaster, because that gives us the option of choosing to build for maximum condition damage (Diabolic Inferno) or condition tanking (Demonic Defiance) … or whatever the third GM would be.
I have heard claims to make it a minor trait, and this works too, but I don’t think it’s quite as optimal. As a minor trait, it would make Corruption too mandatory for any build running Mallyx, and would also give condi damage builds free condition tanking that I’m not sure is needed.
I think Replenishing Despair is kinda like a band-aid for those who roll Corruption, but not Mallyx. Or run Mallyx, but don’t really have to worry about Condition removal (a.k.a. zergs) and use it as a bonus minor heal.
I don’t remember how it scales, but if Replenishing Despair had better heal than 40-50 per Condition it would easily compete with Defiance for some builds.
Venom Enhancement is in much more dire situation here.
I think that if we added something like “When you Chill foe, apply Poison” or “When you Poison foe, apply Chill” to this trait or Frigid Precision (which is rather weak) it would be synergy worth considering.
I’m glad the discussion is still going. My motif for this question is that currently no Legend forces to pick a specific trait line (or spec).
Demonic Defiance is currently mandatory in any Mallyx build.
While doing fractals or wvw I can swap a legend to get a skill or a benefit, I can just swap legend, not traits, and get full advantage from it, as you would do with an utility skill.
Mallyx atm is the only exception. You can’t use it without Demonic Defiance an resistance on every skill.
I’m glad the discussion is still going. My motif for this question is that currently no Legend forces to pick a specific trait line (or spec).
Demonic Defiance is currently mandatory in any Mallyx build.
While doing fractals or wvw I can swap a legend to get a skill or a benefit, I can just swap legend, not traits, and get full advantage from it, as you would do with an utility skill.
Mallyx atm is the only exception. You can’t use it without Demonic Defiance an resistance on every skill.
It’s just not true. Even without the added resistance, Mallyx has 5 really strong skills: Already more on-demand resistance than any class, a near spam-able boon strip, one of the most unique and powerful control skills in the game, and the elite which is amazing for it’s 10% stat boost alone. The problem isn’t that Mallyx is too weak without it. It’s that it is so strong with it.
Speccing corruption just adds the potential for almost constant resistance up-time (which should be GM in my opinion, to make taking corruption less of an obvious conclusion by introducing more trade-offs).
As stated before, even if you have strong skills, Mallyx is basically selfkill with no resistance. You’re forced to spam Pain Absorb to stack resistance, getting tons of multiple stacks of conditions that give you no benefit and basically kill you when your short resistance is over.
There needs to be a tweak to pain absorb or a baseline resistance for all skills, otherwise Demonic Defiance is mandatory and so should be baseline.
I’m going to go with Recursivision on this one – it’s not that Mallyx is too weak without Demonic Defiance, it’s that it’s very strong with it.
Mallyx may be poor at handling conditions without Demonic Defiance, but Shiro and Glint are even worse at dealing with conditions. If it’s okay for Shiro and Glint to be bad with conditions by default, then why is this not the case for Mallyx? I don’t mind that Pain Absorption can result in self-kill because this can be mitigated by being selective about using it.
I really like Demonic Defiance, and I prefer that it be a deliberate choice to take it (e.g. as a major trait) requiring that we sacrifice something else, that way it can stay strong and won’t get nerfed.
This is just my opinion, though, and I do agree that this is an important topic that should be discussed.
You’re forced to spam Pain Absorb to stack resistance, getting tons of multiple stacks of conditions that give you no benefit and basically kill you when your short resistance is over.
They do give you a benefit: extra resistance. Up to 7 seconds of resistance is pretty strong.
There needs to be a tweak to pain absorb or a baseline resistance for all skills, otherwise Demonic Defiance is mandatory and so should be baseline.
Let’s look at this from an condi engineer’s perspective:
A revenant traited for Demonic Defiance can activate the Herald F2 skill, pop Pain Absorption, and potentially be almost completely immune to you for the next 15 seconds. That’s borderline broken. Then consider that you could potentially build up to 100 energy and then do it three times in a row.
Then factor in that you’re also removing a condi from allies and also applying resistance. The skill is huge.
Honestly, I don’t see Mallyx getting any buffs to condi mitigation. They’re far from necessary.
Everything you said is like 100% more effective with Demonic Defiance. Doesn’t it make it mandatory for Mallyx? No other legend has anything like that.
Everything you said is like 100% more effective with Demonic Defiance. Doesn’t it make it mandatory for Mallyx? No other legend has anything like that.
Yeah, you’re right that they’re more effective (doesn’t make it mandatory, still). Unfortunately, along with this tweet, I feel this just means we’re more likely looking at changes that mean an overall nerf to the legend/Demonic Defiance.
But I would argue that the healing effectiveness of Ventari is quite a bit more effective with salvation >.>
Some people missing the point of Mallyx. Mallyx was supposed to manipulate with conditions and feast on them hardcountering anyone that willing touch him with condi, not get wrecked. How can you even manipulate with condi in current state? All you can do is pain absord pain absord pain absord yoo, so much..reminds me i swung a sword..
I swung pain absord, i swung it again..hey it feels great, lets swung it again..
Glad to hear Roy have plans for him. Espesially considering the fact that we do not gain any benefits for few stacks of the same condi of us and that allies can “nerf” us.Too bad all that stuff is not in current beta making feedback a bit..pointless?
Some people missing the point of Mallyx. Mallyx was supposed to manipulate with conditions and feast on them hardcountering anyone that willing touch him with condi, not get wrecked. How can you even manipulate with condi in current state? All you can do is pain absord pain absord pain absord yoo, so much..reminds me i swung a sword..
I swung pain absord, i swung it again..hey it feels great, lets swung it again..
Glad to hear Roy have plans for him. Espesially considering the fact that we do not gain any benefits for few stacks of the same condi of us and that allies can “nerf” us.Too bad all that stuff is not in current beta making feedback a bit..pointless?
But Rev can already hard-counter conditions with Pain Absorb + Demonic Defiance. It’s not particularly fun for us, since it drains all our energy so we can’t do anything else. It’s probably also not fun for any condi build attacking us without boon removal since there’s nothing they can do about it.
I agree that changes are needed, but I don’t expect that the incoming changes will necessarily be buffs. I expect Roy will probably balance it so that we aren’t energy-locked to maintain resistance, but also that we won’t be able to maintain 100% uptime on resistance anymore either.
It’s not pointless.
Feedback as always is to help them make decisions they’re already considering. If they came up with ideas with Mallyx and our feedback is in the same direction, then things will go faster, like with weaponswap.
Some people missing the point of Mallyx. Mallyx was supposed to manipulate with conditions and feast on them hardcountering anyone that willing touch him with condi, not get wrecked. How can you even manipulate with condi in current state? All you can do is pain absord pain absord pain absord yoo, so much..reminds me i swung a sword..
I swung pain absord, i swung it again..hey it feels great, lets swung it again..
Glad to hear Roy have plans for him. Espesially considering the fact that we do not gain any benefits for few stacks of the same condi of us and that allies can “nerf” us.Too bad all that stuff is not in current beta making feedback a bit..pointless?
But Rev can already hard-counter conditions with Pain Absorb + Demonic Defiance. It’s not particularly fun for us, since it drains all our energy so we can’t do anything else. It’s probably also not fun for any condi build attacking us without boon removal since there’s nothing they can do about it.
I agree that changes are needed, but I don’t expect that the incoming changes will necessarily be buffs. I expect Roy will probably balance it so that we aren’t energy-locked to maintain resistance, but also that we won’t be able to maintain 100% uptime on resistance anymore either.
That still would be better than what we have now. Whats the point of other skills if you wont ever touch them. And the counter to condi rev is..nuke him down while not in Mallyx. But thats something people have to figure out.
Or to boonstrip (or, better yet, steal) Resistance.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Kidel, pls. Mallyx is one of—if not the—strongest legend in every game mode. Having that trait baseline would both make the legend necessary in PvP while trivializing the corruption line.
No, a trait should hold any skill line hostage. It shouldn’t be a piece to make skills viable.
Traits should only be enhancers. I shouldn’t have to spec Demonic Defiance to make Mallyx viable. It is very bad design.
Kidel, pls. Mallyx is one of—if not the—strongest legend in every game mode. Having that trait baseline would both make the legend necessary in PvP while trivializing the corruption line.
No, a trait should hold any skill line hostage. It shouldn’t be a piece to make skills viable.
Traits should only be enhancers. I shouldn’t have to spec Demonic Defiance to make Mallyx viable. It is very bad design.
Not sure where anyone gets the idea that it’s necessary to be viable. Mallyx is pretty much one of the strongest picks with or without the trait in all game modes.
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