Guild Wars 2

Both Druid and Ventari are awesome, but I found the Salvation trait line a bit disappointing since it was revealed, and now with Druid’s stream video, it only made that disappointment clearer to me.

The problem with Salvation is that a lot of the healing traits feel samey and fighting for the same spot. Some of them are even hard to distinguish between each other except for any mathematical calculations behind them, which, for your average player, makes their purpose and niche playstyle unclear.

Nourishing Roots vs Tranquil Balance
Both adept traits want to do the same thing: improve ally healing. Which one to pick? NR if you’re going with Ventari legend or TB if not, but that makes for a superficial question because, if you are going for TB, chances are, you’ll want to pick ventari as well to make good use of it. In the end, whichever one is mathematically stronger in practice will win and that’s it.

Hardened Foundation
This minor trait is useless without healing power. Although I understand that players should be motivated to spec into healing here, that doesn’t means they should be completely useless otherwise. It would be more practical if the effect was swapped (gain healing based on toughness) because all characters have a base toughness value, which would make it worth something even if you don’t invest in the base stat.

Invoking Harmony vs Tranquil Benediction
I’m bringing these two master traits to point out that they’re actually decent at fighting each other, because there’s a very clear distinction between them. Burst healing vs sustain healing.

Natural Abundance vs Selfless Amplification
Exact same issue with the adept traits. Both want to do the same thing: improve ally healing. You’ll simply pick whichever one is mathematically the best in practice, and ignore the other.

Tranquil Balance + Serene Rejuvenation + Selfless Amplification
One of the worst offenders. Although they’re not fighting for the same spot (they’re all in different tiers), aren’t all of them variations of each other?
Heal allies more. Heal allies even more if trigger is checked. And heal allies even more, even more and even more if you bring even more healing power through a somewhat unclear/ confusing mathematical calculation. Well, yeah.

In comparison, let’s look at Druid’s traits:
Adept: Choice between ally heal, condition cleansing and daze.
Master: Choice between ally movement support, self movement support and glyphs/ healing.
Grandmaster: Choice between healing, cleansing and CC too.
Minor traits: one improves self healing, the other improves ally healing.

Much clearer than Ventari’s, with each trait having distinct and well-defined roles, a clear synergy between them all, and no need for weird mathematical calculations nor for forcing you to invest in any single stat.

Part of the reason why I suggested re-designing couple of them:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Feedback-Suggestions-Rym-s-Megathread/first#post5525223

I tend to agree. Ventari is good, but Druid looks better, especially in its traits. Druid will be the go-to healer in the game.
But alternatively, after extensive Fractal and Dungeon testing last beta, I think Herald just might be the #1 best tank.

I wouldn’t mind for a radius increase on the Ventari tablet skills

Yea Ventari traits really only have +X % healing modifiers. While it can be useful its very boring. Almost wish they would remove the modifiers make it baseline and add actual traits. Because if you take Ventari without the modifiers it sucks. But even if they ignore all of that, I agree with the increases Ventari tablet radius aoe. Its capped at 5 people anyways, whats it hurt to increase it to 600 like glint boons.

Yep ventari/salvation got a lot of good feedback but except of a few tweaks was almost untouched. I thought it was the fear to make it op, but seeing the druid, well, now there’s no reason !!

I think Ventari needs a water field and Elluding Nullfication needs to be changed to cast Purifying Essence on dodge.

Greek.4396:

I wouldn’t mind for a radius increase on the Ventari tablet skills

Definitely needs to be 300 radius or bigger.

I think I’ll just quote it:

Rym.1469:

Ventari

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Ventari feedback was written after BWE3 changes announcement, no edits.

Overview:
Some hate it, some like it. Over Beta Weeked Event 2 I’ve spent most of my time with Ventari Legend in all three game modes and I think that I’m capable of providing some good feedback on it.
Ventari certainly feels like a Legend that takes the most skill, certainly the most skill out of all supports in the entire game. The Tablet mechanic is interesting, but often not intuitive. Before I start with particular skills, here’s my list of Tablet changes:

• When using Ventari’s Will, there should be an UI line for the caster between the Tablet current location and Ground-targeted area. This way, caster can see the line Tablet will pass through and adjust it with better idea. (Similar line to ones created by Shovel #2 in Silverwastes when searching for chests). EDIT: After Revenant commands the Tablet, the line should appear for allies, too.

• EDIT: Healing should’ve been more visible. Give Fragments some bonus visual like green “+” above them, and let both Revenant and his allies see the radius in which Tablet healing is effective.

• Ventari’s Will should have 1500 range. Period. Having to click two times just to get your Tablet back is horrible.

• Both Ventari’s Will and Project Tranquility have to be instant cast. Cast time on those is the main reason why Tablet feels clunky to use in my opinion.

• Tablet’s travel speed should be increased. By the time it travels 900 units, you might be dead already.

• Radius of Tablet has to be increased to 300. Healing anyone who’s more mobile than Necromancer or Guardian is terrible experience. The radius is simply not large enough. I often miss the heal by couple units, swearing, because my ally moves too quickly.

• As mentioned, remove the cast times from Tablet management, but add cast times to Natural Harmony and Purifiying Essence. The counterplay is currently in wrong place – you can counter Tablet positioning, but not healing cast.

Now, the skills

6. Project Tranquility - Increase Healing Power scalling on this one. It’s barely noticeable even with full Cleric’s gear. Rest was mentioned above.

7. Protective Solace - It’s a good skill when there are projectiles. It is absolutely terrible and useless skill if there are no projectiles. Yes, it’s Light Combo Field and it helps sometimes, but wouldn’t say no to some bonus effect. Suggestions for bonus effect:

• When Protective Solace is up, the passive healing of Project Tranquility is increased by 200%/300%.

• Protective Solace pulses Protection/Vigor

• Protective Solace increases Revive Speed by 30%.

• Foes crossing Protective Solace are Blinded (3s)

8. Natural Harmony - Annoying. Really annoying. Remove that delay on healing, it’s completly unecessary, add 1/4s or 1/2s cast time for proper counterplay. When I need healing, I need it when I finish the cast, not 2s later.
Increase either Healing Power scalling or base healing to compensate. Or both. As mentioned in “General” – majority of healing I was able to output was from spreading Regeneration, weapon skills, sigils, picking up healing orbs and fragments. Not from Natural Harmony. I checked combat logs. It might be that after lowering Energy cost a bit the numbers are little better, but the healing from this particular skill was insignificant in PvP.

9. Purifying Essence - Adding cooldown to it does nothing but bad things. Same as with Natural Harmony, add cast time of 1/4 or 1/2s for proper counterplay, erase the freshly added cooldown. Seriously, playing Ventari I couldn’t cast too often, but there were times when I knew I had to save up energy and cleanse conditions with it two times in a row to help my team. Addition of cooldown is a huge nerf to this one.

0. Energy Expulsion - I think that after announced BWE3 change this Elite will be fine.

Salvation

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Overview:
This is our “Healing” traitline. I liked it, but I believe it could’ve been “split” into three “ways” – “Selfless healing”, “Support”, “Peacemaker”. So by going into Specialization, you may not only act as “healer”, but also pick traits which will prevent damage, instead of helping allies recover. Here are my suggestions:

1. Hardened Foundation replaced with Eluding Nullification. Currently, this minor will do nothing if you don’t have Healing Power and is boring conversion trait. Even with Cleric’s, gained Toughness is nothing. Insignificant either way. By replacing it with cleansing we free up one Master trait and give Salvation very helpful condition cleanse.

2. Nourishing Roots into Nourishing Waters.

• Nourishing Waters
  Create a Water Field when you swap weapons. Duration: 2s. 240 Radius.
  Now that we have couple Blast Finishers, it’s time to make use of them. Water Field was a thing many people requested. Such simple trait would allow us to make use of our well-timed Blasts on low cooldown (maybe even push people to pick Runes of Warrior?) and give us more group-wide synergy while not being over the top. Such trait would be worthy competitor for other two strong Adept traits.

3. Tranquil Benediction - After BWE2 when I looked at Salvation line I thought “why do we have two traits in one specialization that provide Regeneration?”. Exactly, why? Let’s boundle them into one.

• Tranquil Benediction
  Healing Orbs spawned by you and your Ventari’s Tablet provide Regeneration (2s) and Swiftness (2s).

This would require some good wording and tooltip magic, but I think the idea is solid. Yet another good trait to pick up when going through the “support path”. To be honest, Tablet part isn’t even necessary I believe with further changes to Invocation.

4. Selfless Amplification - This trait is nice, but could maybe give some bonus:

• +150 Healing Power?

• You heal for 5% of your outgoing healing?

Final trait of “selfless path”

5. Natural Abundance - This trait is nice, but I’d add little bonus. Currently, even if you try often the Fragments will just despawn before you reach them. Pick one of those – both are aimed at making it a little easier:

• Trait also increases Fragments’ and Orbs’ pickup ranges.

• Trait increases duration of all Fragments spawned to 10 or 15s.

Final trait of “support path”

6. Momentary Pacification - Base of this trait is good enough, I’d like to push the synergy however and add to existing trait:

• When you interrupt a foe, Blind him (5s ICD per target).

Final trait of “peacemaker path”

7. New Master trait replacing Eluding Nullification trait

• Peacemaker
  When you Blind foe, your nearby allies gain Vigor/Stability/Aegis. (Some very short ICD depending on the effect).

This trait is a strong option for Salvation Revenant who chooses not to go for healing, but more “utility-based” path of peace.

Don’t forget that Druid is an elite spec where-as ventari is base.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Don’t forget that Druid is an elite spec where-as ventari is base.

Why would that change the fact that Ventari is less interesting than Druid and needs some changes?

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Don’t forget that Druid is an elite spec where-as ventari is base.

Elites aren’t supposed to be better than base/core specs.

This goes back to the whole argument of Rev being Jack of All Trades. Druid is more or less an Elite fully dedicated to healing and recovery, so naturally I would have anticipated it to blow every other healing Spec out of the water.

Ventari serves multiple purposes such as healing and damage mitigation while Druid is practically a heal bot.

savacli.8172:

This goes back to the whole argument of Rev being Jack of All Trades. Druid is more or less an Elite fully dedicated to healing and recovery, so naturally I would have anticipated it to blow every other healing Spec out of the water.

Ventari serves multiple purposes such as healing and damage mitigation while Druid is practically a heal bot.

about the whole jack-of-all-trades argument, elementalist are the same concept for light classes, but they are sorta master of many trades, why can’t wee too? >:-C
The concept is that we can be dynamic, but we don’t have to be subpar at the roles we want to perform!

“Sorta Master” is the right term. It’s a little odd to compare an Ele and a Rev. Ele’s are great at doing multiple things at once. D/D ele being a fantastic showcase of that. It’s a beautiful balance of damage, sustain, and group buffing. Their defect though is their cooldown/lockout offset. They’re really good at burst situations, but they can easily burn themselves out with poor cooldown management. For the sake of this thread, a Water Ele dedicated to healing will find themselves subject to that lockout issue as well; they can only push out so much healing before they’re caught in thumb twiddling.

Rev can do multiple things, but they can only focus on a handful of things at once. The offset is that they can ‘spam’ their focus skills and generally have a better mastery over their selected focus. Glint is a boon master, Ventari is a heal bot (even with zero healing gear/traits), Shiro is can wreck things stupidly easy, etc.

Can a Ventari Rev heal as much as a Druid? Maybe? I haven’t done the math yet, but my guess is that Revs would either have to heavily trait for healing and/or gear up with Healing Power which to me sounds about right. Going back to the Ele comparison I would expect them to invest the same amount of resources as a Rev to match what is otherwise a dedicated healer that is the Druid.

Overall, I would still take a Rev over a Ranger. Even if Druid proves to be the end-all be-all Raid healer Rev’s versatility is too much to give up (plus no annoying pet!)

I am more concerned about druid cc then heal. It seems way op, like jade winds with no energy cost.
The healing is strong only in cele form and we still have to see how often can you use it.
Plus it does almost 0 damage. Ventari rev can still help dps