Guild Wars 2

So it seems like you really wanted to make the Dwarf stance the go to spec for being tanky. However, from what I’ve played around with, it simply doesn’t deliver. The biggest issue I have with it right now are resource cost. Quite frankly, everything just cost too much for what you’re getting.

I mean, sure if we started fights with 100% resource then it would be balanced. But we don’t.

Today I tried to mess around with a Tanky focused build that utilizes Dwarf, it fails on every front.

1. Heal Skill – Probably the only skill I think is in a good position.
2. Forced Engagement – Right now it cost too much, takes too long to cast, and does little in return. With the long cast times, the chances of it getting interrupted in the now CC heavy meta is very high. It Also cost a lot. If you use this on the start of a fight, you basically have to run around auto attacking till you can do anything again. If we were to keep the current amounts of taunt and slow, this skills cast time and resource cost needs to be cut in half. If you want to keep the current cast/resource, then double the slow and taunt. It’s just so…useless. Most players treat it as a small annoyance in PvP.
3. Inspiring Reinforcement – Similar issues to force engagement. The resource cost are too high. Every instance I use this, it doesn’t save me from CC. I still get CC’d or I get pushed out of it. It either needs to pulse a lot more stability and last longer, or that resource cost needs to come down. I think about 20 resource would be a good start.
4. Vengful Hammers – Again, resource cost is too high. When I’m in Jalis, I won’t be dealing a ton of damage. It isn’t a good spec to go into if you want to deal damage. With all the resource cost, I rarely get to use these hammers. By the time I’ve casted my weapon skills or a taunt, I’m spent. I think a resource drain of 3, not 5 is more proper for what this currently does.
5. Rite of the Great Dwarf – I think this is in a slightly good position. I think it should last a little bit longer, considering your’e spending 50 of your resource pool.

Those are my biggest issues. The main pattern is resource cost. For a Legend that is supposed to make you more tanky, the resource cost make the skills not able to keep up with the damage being put out. Both by players and mobs. Right now, its better to just go any other spec, you’d contribute more to your team. If you’re looking to be a tank, most of the other classes outdo the Revenant, by a lot.

I generally agree Jalis need a bit cutout on cost or an improve in effects, not big, just slight.

Road is just TOO SLOW and applies poor stab after the nerf in BWE3, it can only be acceptable if it would be almost instant.

Cost/benefit of taunt is not worth: i’d vote for an incresed effect along with a higher CD to compensate, same cost.

Given the potential of Glint (aoe protection on demand for 5 upkeep = 20% reduction AoE) vs Hammers (VERY low dmg/heal + 20% redu dmg and condi, only caster, 7 upkeep) i TOTALLY see hammers to be brought down to 5 upkeep too.

Elite and heal are the only good ones, especially elite after the cast time buff.

Beside the strong Soothing Stone heal, Vengeful Hammers is pretty much the only reason for why I use Jalis even as a dps. Its just too useful as an aoe move, like when faced with a large pack of pocket raptors. But I sure wish theyd fix the broken aspects of it.

Road would be awesome if it was like 1200 range, so you could actually pave stabi road into enemy zerg (WvW).

Forced Engagement is also interceptable (kinda like when you are using Downed #1), quite hard to land in encounter when there are many mobs (like Sporelings), the price is imo justified by the amount of Defiance it eats.

Hammers cancel when hitting wall or slope, but work with that “heal when hitting from side or behind” trait.

Once you unlock Herald, you don’t really use Jalis anymore.

Heal is awesome, Forced is good against the break bar, Road is bad and the Stability takes too long to proc, hammers are conceptually really good but buggy as hell due to collision detection (and radius is 180) and the Elite is fine for such a strong damage reduction.

Velho.7123:

Elite is fine for such a strong damage reduction.

Its barely better than protection. Also necro gain 50% reduction in DS.

It’s for five people, not just yourself.

Velho.7123:

It’s for five people, not just yourself.

Yep but that’s the problem for balancing it in pvp. You can make it instant for counter burst but maybe with 5 allies to it make it a bit strong. But actually half two second is too much for counter a burst at high level of pvp. The taunt is pretty useless in pvp too and the road is clunky (you need to stay on it for getting stability) and make 2 seconds of cast for giving you stability, too much. Those three skills needs rework for pvp i think, hammers are awesome and heal fine, maybe giving it 2 more seconds of retaliation (for a total of 4 seconds). Retribution traitline need some tweeks too, particulary on eye for an eye and seadfast rejuvenation.

Velho.7123:

It’s for five people, not just yourself.

I rather have it for myself as upkeep ability. Also before this skill was nerfed it was basically endure pain reducing all damage to 0.

I do believe that making it 75% would make it very appealing for the Energy cost

Burtnik.5218:

Velho.7123:

It’s for five people, not just yourself.

I rather have it for myself as upkeep ability. Also before this skill was nerfed it was basically endure pain reducing all damage to 0.

Upkeep would be particlary op, coz you can hold it too long or make it -10 or -9 upkeep. I think that the ratio reduction is fine, even better when you take the GM trait. But the cast time is too long from a pvp perspective. You can’t really counter a burst with half two second cast time. I’m rather sure that making it instant would really enhance this legend in pvp. Even if taunt and road need changes too. The fact that the skill affect 5 allies make it usable in pve too.

It should be at least a bit longer with reduced energy. Right now its trash skill which you never use outside of pve. Theres also overlap with hammers as both now reduces dmg&condi dmg but in the longer run hammers does it better.

Burtnik.5218:

It should be at least a bit longer with reduced energy. Right now its trash skill which you never use outside of pve. Theres also overlap with hammers as both now reduces dmg&condi dmg but in the longer run hammers does it better.

Yes you’re right, vengefull hammer are better on time. That’s why i think ROTGD need to be an instant thing (maybe a bit longer yes) for being a cd to use for counter a burst. Vengefull hammer is used for aoe dammage in pve and passif reduction of dommage in both pve and pvp. I don’t have any problem with vengefull hammer and rite of the great dwarf doing the same thing coz it does basicaly what Jalis should do, tanking. But you point the problem, vengefull hammer is better than ROTGD for now. ROTGD need to find a point in pvp to being usefull but i don’t think upkeep is the answer coz you have already vengefull hammer for this. I think that’s something instant could be the answer, maybe upping the dammage reduction to 60% or add one second to the time too.
It’s not abouting buffing revenant, but buffing legends that are useless. I’m tired of being stuck in Shiro/Glint.

The main issue with Jalis stance isn’t that it is weak (aside from IR), it is the clunkiness factor.

Hammers have an upkeep cost of 7. 5 is the initial cost. The only problem with this skill is the projectile nonsense.

Inspiring reinforcement used to pulse six seconds, but was reduced to one. I’d like to see it bumped back to two, with the initial pulse on cast.

Rite would be fine if it were instant cast, which it should be since it is a stun break. While we are at it, reduce the cast time of Soothing Stone a bit.

Misguided.5139:

The main issue with Jalis stance isn’t that it is weak (aside from IR), it is the clunkiness factor.

Hammers have an upkeep cost of 7. 5 is the initial cost. The only problem with this skill is the projectile nonsense.

Inspiring reinforcement used to pulse six seconds, but was reduced to one. I’d like to see it bumped back to two, with the initial pulse on cast.

Rite would be fine if it were instant cast, which it should be since it is a stun break. While we are at it, reduce the cast time of Soothing Stone a bit.

You talk about clunkiness but you actually like inspiring reinforcement like this? I mean it’s sure that it need more stability pulse, but don’t you find it’s really clunky that you must stay on the road for having this stability? In pvp you don’t stay on a point like a free target, never.

gannondorf.7628:

Misguided.5139:

The main issue with Jalis stance isn’t that it is weak (aside from IR), it is the clunkiness factor.

Hammers have an upkeep cost of 7. 5 is the initial cost. The only problem with this skill is the projectile nonsense.

Inspiring reinforcement used to pulse six seconds, but was reduced to one. I’d like to see it bumped back to two, with the initial pulse on cast.

Rite would be fine if it were instant cast, which it should be since it is a stun break. While we are at it, reduce the cast time of Soothing Stone a bit.

You talk about clunkiness but you actually like inspiring reinforcement like this? I mean it’s sure that it need more stability pulse, but don’t you find it’s really clunky that you must stay on the road for having this stability? In pvp you don’t stay on a point like a free target, never.

My preference would be to have one burst of stability at the beginning, but I don’t believe they will make that change. I try to make suggestions I think could legitimately happen.

Jalis’ elite NEEDS to be insta-cast, either that or reduce the cost, right now you can’t use it in a reactionary way, so it’s virtually useless, you’re almost never going to go above 50 energy anyway because it’s simply not efficient.

I would much rather have Glint up permanently with no downsides or ludicrous energy cost, and it’s not even the tanky line.

Hammers imo are fine, they bring far too much damage and utility for it to cost less.

Inspiring Reinforcement, yet another skill that needs to be insta-cast.

Daharahj.1325:

Inspiring Reinforcement, yet another skill that needs to be insta-cast.

Cast time is only 1/4. The issue is that it doesn’t start pulsing stability until the road is finished.

Yeah i will be replacing Jalis with Glint when i acquire all the skills, and i have the same problem as the people above with it’s use.

The road doesnt start pulsing stability until it is finished(far too late, probably knocked off the road by then), and the ROTGD should be insta stun break with a 6 second duration on a longer timer, say 1min over 50secs.

I dont mind the hammers and throw them up in oh kitten situations. As i havnt really WvW’d with it cant comment too much on FE.

Soothing Stone – reduce the cast time, possibly to 0.5s
Inspiring Reinforcement – Pulses should begin instantly and the stability should last for 2 seconds.
Forced Engagement – This skill is fine IMO, though it isn’t super useful on Jalis
Vengeful Hammers – A really great skill if they don’t disappear. Needs the projectile rubbish fixed
RotGD – Instant or very short cast (0.25s) and increase duration 6 – 8s.

mexay.3902:

Soothing Stone – reduce the cast time, possibly to 0.5s
Inspiring Reinforcement – Pulses should begin instantly and the stability should last for 2 seconds.
Forced Engagement – This skill is fine IMO, though it isn’t super useful on Jalis
Vengeful Hammers – A really great skill if they don’t disappear. Needs the projectile rubbish fixed
RotGD – Instant or very short cast (0.25s) and increase duration 6 – 8s.

I agree with most of this, though if RotGD gets a significant cast time decrease then it will be much more useful in an emergency, in which case it would no longer need a duration increase IMO.
I don’t agree with decreasing the cast time on Jalis’ heal though – most other heals have a cast time around 1 second, and I don’t see why Jalis’ should be much better.

fluidmonolith.3584:

I agree with most of this, though if RotGD gets a significant cast time decrease then it will be much more useful in an emergency, in which case it would no longer need a duration increase IMO.
I don’t agree with decreasing the cast time on Jalis’ heal though – most other heals have a cast time around 1 second, and I don’t see why Jalis’ should be much better.

Agreed on Rite. I don’t think we will get both and the cast time reduction is more important.

Jalis heal feels like it takes forever, but if I had to chose between shortening it or Rite, I’d go with Rite. Keep in mind, though, that our heal skills are reduced in effect because we get two, making that one second on the long side for what it does.

Misguided.5139:

fluidmonolith.3584:

I agree with most of this, though if RotGD gets a significant cast time decrease then it will be much more useful in an emergency, in which case it would no longer need a duration increase IMO.
I don’t agree with decreasing the cast time on Jalis’ heal though – most other heals have a cast time around 1 second, and I don’t see why Jalis’ should be much better.

Agreed on Rite. I don’t think we will get both and the cast time reduction is more important.

Jalis heal feels like it takes forever, but if I had to chose between shortening it or Rite, I’d go with Rite. Keep in mind, though, that our heal skills are reduced in effect because we get two, making that one second on the long side for what it does.

The reduced cast time is really needed for the stunbreak. I really feel RotgD should be an upkeep skill thus reducing the initial energy cost making available in emergencies (then you could use it as an emergency/stunbreak then cancel it, putting it on cooldown) , making it the opposite of impossible odds.

Forced engagement NEEDS something else. Like a stun or a daze if the target manages to hit you WHILE taunted by this skill. As it is, as said above, its a minor annoyance in spvp at best. This condition would make it rewarding to be in close quarters and using this skill on an enemy.

The road needs to cascade faster, and apply stability quicker. The problem with the beta version of this skill was that multiple revenants could stack stability with multiple roads, people complained, and now look where we are…

totaly agree with everything in here.

i like jalis but maaaan it kills the revenants energy

here take 50% less dmg happy gratz now during it you cant do anything.

here have some stability camping road wut you still got CC ed to death ? oh yeah a single player can spam CC faster then the speed stability is applied.

want a heal ? sory killed while casting.

in PvE jalis is prety fine but in PvP it sometimes feels suicide to use it. it eats ALL your energy like a fat madman for weak benefits.

Potato Slayer.3107:

I really feel RotgD should be an upkeep skill thus reducing the initial energy cost making available in emergencies (then you could use it as an emergency/stunbreak then cancel it, putting it on cooldown) , making it the opposite of impossible odds.

Forced engagement NEEDS something else. Like a stun or a daze if the target manages to hit you WHILE taunted by this skill. As it is, as said above, its a minor annoyance in spvp at best. This condition would make it rewarding to be in close quarters and using this skill on an enemy.

They seem determined to limit the stances to one upkeep, outside Glint. I had suggested a pull for FE, but haven’t gotten much response.

As primarily a WvW player, I really only use Jalis for the heal (which is very good) and the elite. The elite is solid when your commander is calling for and committing for a push forward. Jalis is what I swap to when I’m under pressure or when I want to refresh my energy from Glint, but that’s it. Dwarf road feels like a waste of energy, and the only time I use the taunt chain is when it procs off my traits. I don’t even hardcast it out of helping to strip break bars on a lord.

Jalis currently doesn’t do much outside of WvW, unless that’s the intent of the whole legend.

Misguided.5139:

Potato Slayer.3107:

I really feel RotgD should be an upkeep skill thus reducing the initial energy cost making available in emergencies (then you could use it as an emergency/stunbreak then cancel it, putting it on cooldown) , making it the opposite of impossible odds.

Forced engagement NEEDS something else. Like a stun or a daze if the target manages to hit you WHILE taunted by this skill. As it is, as said above, its a minor annoyance in spvp at best. This condition would make it rewarding to be in close quarters and using this skill on an enemy.

They seem determined to limit the stances to one upkeep, outside Glint. I had suggested a pull for FE, but haven’t gotten much response.

Hot kitten , if I could scorpion pull with FE chain that would be sweet.

I rarely use any other skills than the hammers on the dwarf stance. The road does more or less nothing and the chains are about as useful as jumping of a cliff without the glider. So I spend the resources on the hammers and let it be at that.

Yup, I agree with the needing changes, but IMO when yup, the inspiring reinforcement is slow, and need the insta stab, I also use it for the combo field often, with hammer/staff, always have the vuln/brutal bolts on AA, not to mention the blast finishers, so I dont think it’s unuseful atm. (PVE perspectivity)

ok now that we ALL agree that it needs buffed can we get some buffs on it ? people saying its bad since the beta lol

needs more sources of retaliation. that grandmaster trait tho

Do you want to reduce reliance on glint and make Jalis a more atractive choice?

• New 25% passive speed increase trait on the Devastation specialization trait line.
• More fury uptime across the board through various trait improvements.

• Rite of the Great Dwarf energy cost reduced to 40. Cast time reduced to 0.5s.
• Vengeful hammers collision bug fixed.
• Inspiring Reinforcement is now instant cast and a stun breaker. It now starts pulsing stability instantly upon cast.
• Forced engagement energy cost reduced to 30.

Khenzy.9348:

• New 25% passive speed increase trait on the Devastation specialization trait line.

That should be since day one in adept. Now we have 2 traits..one to give 2% dmg bonus per stack (up to 10) and another to give 150 fero for dual wielding.. for basically one weapon. Makes sense. Adept is also the olny thing out of devastation line that lack trait called “assassin X”

Honestly without herald revenant is trash tier. Not really much better than a warrior.

“Honestly without herald revenant is trash tier. Not really much better than a warrior.”

Agree with this last sentence. The thing i’m afraid off is that dev don’t seems to have any attention to warriors, being stuck in 3 traitline since basically the start. I admit i’m afraid that we have the same fate…
I don’t know if i can actually wait three years for changes, being stuck in Shiro/Glint. Pretty sure not.

gannondorf.7628:

“Honestly without herald revenant is trash tier. Not really much better than a warrior.”

Agree with this last sentence. The thing i’m afraid off is that dev don’t seems to have any attention to warriors, being stuck in 3 traitline since basically the start. I admit i’m afraid that we have the same fate…
I don’t know if i can actually wait three years for changes, being stuck in Shiro/Glint. Pretty sure not.

I find the constant swap with glint/shiro not activating facets annoying. Don’t think that is what the devs had in mine when creating the active abilities of the facets, but as it is there is no point to use them. I would rather swap legends to adapt to the situation, not for energy min/maxing dps.

Potato Slayer.3107:

I find the constant swap with glint/shiro not activating facets annoying. Don’t think that is what the devs had in mine when creating the active abilities of the facets, but as it is there is no point to use them. I would rather swap legends to adapt to the situation, not for energy min/maxing dps.

Several of the legends are suited to camping. I use Glint and Jalis, but spend most of the time in Glint. figure out what legend you like best, then choose what complements it. What situations will force you out of the first and what will help in those situations? Will you do less dps? Yes. Can you still do good dps? Yes. Will you have more fun this way? By the sound of it, yes.