Guild Wars 2

Revenant is hard to compare to other classes in terms of resources management, but lets chose Thief just for the sake of laziness.

Thieves have like 5 traits that adds initiative when doing x, when switching weapons, when rolling, and even a trait that gives 20% initiative bar. keep in mind that only the weapon skills have initiative consumption, but revenants have initiative consumpion of weapon skills, elite and utilities, and even upkeep skill (yes, we have more upkeep skills that energy regen, so it means we cant cast x skill in OMGWTF situations because we are alreaddy drained, yes we can switch legend but if that skill that legend we are using is the one that have the skill that would save our kitten in that dire situation?) and here is where i ask…
What does revenant has? only a 50% energy when switching legend? and then only a 5%?
why don’t we have *%energy on weapon swap?* or even a revenant specific sigil that gives us energy when swapping, or idk, a trait that gives us on crit or whatever, it just feels that the only way to get energy back (in the tide of a fight is to swap legend, and it isn’t always the best strategic int he flow and head of battle.

Now guys, please pump this to Roy´s headquarters and pray to the 7 gods (Abaddon included), Norn spirits and the Eternal Alchemy to have a red post

Sorry buddy, but after playing last beta, maintaining enough energy was not a big issue…
Just keep your god kitten eyes on the energy bar and keep it above 40%. This worked really nice for me. Why it costs so much energy, is because the utility skills is truly powerful and needs the energy cost. Its the same as waiting for a 40 second cooldown. But actually, if you maintain the energy ok, you might actually use a utility skill twice. Which not many professions can do :-) GL training!

Yep, and that was before all Glint Upkeeps

SimenAaserud.3598:

Sorry buddy, but after playing last beta, maintaining enough energy was not a big issue…
Just keep your god kitten eyes on the energy bar and keep it above 40%. This worked really nice for me. Why it costs so much energy, is because the utility skills is truly powerful and needs the energy cost. Its the same as waiting for a 40 second cooldown. But actually, if you maintain the energy ok, you might actually use a utility skill twice. Which not many professions can do :-) GL training!

Even with careful use of my skills, I rarely got above 40% energy in sPvP outside of my opener. The need to use your skills to survive and outmaneouver is too demanding to ever have above 40%.

In PvE, it’s easy. Totally different in sPvP however. A single elite and 3 of your attack skills leaves you with nothing.

Energy is just fine as is.

Let me give you an example how I plan to play in pve at least.

I will keep up facet of light, elements, and strength. That’s still +1 gain so I’ll remain at 50 out of combat. Entering a fight cast elemental blast. I now have +2.

I can use Unrelenting Assault right away, drop to 40,by the time it finishes have 43 energy about. Do an auto attack chain, be over 50. Unrelenting Assault will still be on cd so I can do precesion strike. Then another Unrelenting Assault and still have left overs to use shield skill 5 if I need a heal at this point.

I am not sure if everyone just plans on hitting 2 through 9 on there keyboard as fast as possible or what. But energy in my opinion is in a great place. Plus if you drain it way to fast legend swap for a free 50 again

Sylent.3165:

Energy is just fine as is.

Let me give you an example how I plan to play in pve at least.

I will keep up facet of light, elements, and strength. That’s still +1 gain so I’ll remain at 50 out of combat. Entering a fight cast elemental blast. I now have +2.

I can use Unrelenting Assault right away, drop to 40,by the time it finishes have 43 energy about. Do an auto attack chain, be over 50. Unrelenting Assault will still be on cd so I can do precesion strike. Then another Unrelenting Assault and still have left overs to use shield skill 5 if I need a heal at this point.

I am not sure if everyone just plans on hitting 2 through 9 on there keyboard as fast as possible or what. But energy in my opinion is in a great place. Plus if you drain it way to fast legend swap for a free 50 again

Like I said, it’s super easy in PvE because the game mode is pedestrian and mobs are slow and unintelligent.

In sPvP my typical rotation is:

Frigid Blitz > Searing Fissure > Echoing Eruption > Jade Winds > Temporal Rift.

Within a few seconds I’m out of energy with no means of making it increase quicker. The only thing to do is slow the burst down so much, it’s no longer a burst.

They need to boost revenant defensive capabilities, period. If you boost energy consumption in a blanket you increase their offensive/utility capabilities, which is a problem for PvE.

So simply do drastic cuts on the energy costs of survival/mobility skills.

They also need to address Revenant condi clears. Shiro is too one dimensional, doesn’t have enough utility, and he simply just does not synergize well with the other legends if you want to play a berk revenant.

A mesmer/thief/ele will crap all over a berk revenant. Still too squishy and it doesn’t bring enough group utility.

Glint could be a good combo if it didnt completely destroy your ability to use your defensive/mobility skills more freely.

Lewis Burnell.2493

In sPvP my typical rotation is:

Frigid Blitz > Searing Fissure > Echoing Eruption > Jade Winds > Temporal Rift.

Within a few seconds I’m out of energy with no means of making it increase quicker. The only thing to do is slow the burst down so much, it’s no longer a burst.

If you land all that you’re supposed to be out of energy. If you could do all of those things and then do a bunch more it wouldn’t be a burst, it would be sustained.

Working as intended.

Yes Rev need damage reduction to the highest of any class if they plan to keep the current flawed Energy system, because right now Revs melt like butter in SPvP. In PvE npc are stupid and doesnt need much skill management to defeat. Same for WvW, zerg play makes all builds useful in some way.

SPvP is where everything breaks down.

Really wish people would stop saying Energy conservation is easy then go on about what they do in PVE. It’s not a PVE issue, in PVE it’s easy… In PVP you don’t have the luxury of always waiting and pooling, the game goes too fast for that in PVP, and you quickly end up starved for Energy in many cases. More specifically when facing anything with Conditions or high burst, Revenant can’t handle either very well at the moment, and you pretty much HAVE to use your skills or you will die. Revenant can’t even afford to get hit by conditions, since they have close to no effective removal, lol.

Xernth.8561:

Lewis Burnell.2493

In sPvP my typical rotation is:

Frigid Blitz > Searing Fissure > Echoing Eruption > Jade Winds > Temporal Rift.

Within a few seconds I’m out of energy with no means of making it increase quicker. The only thing to do is slow the burst down so much, it’s no longer a burst.

If you land all that you’re supposed to be out of energy. If you could do all of those things and then do a bunch more it wouldn’t be a burst, it would be sustained.

Working as intended.

I’m not suggesting it isn’t working as intended. All I was highlighting was the fact that you’re instantly out of energy and unable to use any additional skills for a lengthy period of time. Unlike the thief, the revenant has no means to gain additional energy, which is what the original poster was talking about.

As a side point, I love the fact that people are objecting to his idea of allowing the revenant to gain some additional energy (through skills or traits) which is proven to have worked well on the thief and yet you’re resisting it for…what?

If you’re casually throwing jade winds into your rotation after using every single weapon skill, that’s your problem. Also, you could switch legends at that point and be right back at 50. I’m not seeing a problem.

I had a lot of success in PvP last beta, personally, and I can admit I’m nowhere near hitting the skill cap for the profession.

Revenant actually has pretty kitten solid defenses at the moment. Running staff sword/sword you have a 2 second block on a 10 second cooldown, a 2 second block on a 15 second cooldown, a high damage skill with built in evade on a 10 second cooldown, and another on a 20 second cooldown. That’s just the weapon skills. We can talk about how mallyx hard counters melee builds and Condi’s too if you’d like.

The recent changes are going to be pretty huge by themselves. Energy doesn’t need to be touched.

Recursivision.2367:

If you’re casually throwing jade winds into your rotation after using every single weapon skill, that’s your problem. Also, you could switch legends at that point and be right back at 50. I’m not seeing a problem.

I had a lot of success in PvP last beta, personally, and I can admit I’m nowhere near hitting the skill cap for the profession.

Revenant actually has pretty kitten solid defenses at the moment. Running staff sword/sword you have a 2 second block on a 10 second cooldown, a 2 second block on a 15 second cooldown, a high damage skill with built in evade on a 10 second cooldown, and another on a 20 second cooldown. That’s just the weapon skills. We can talk about how mallyx hard counters melee builds and Condi’s too if you’d like.

The recent changes are going to be pretty huge by themselves. Energy doesn’t need to be touched.

Why would I be “casually” throwing Jade Wind’s into the mix when it offers an enormous burn, combined with the root? I use it because the burst I described is huge damage. Did I state somewhere that I did poorly in sPvP? (quite the opposite) but that doesn’t change the fact that the revenant can – and does – run out of energy regularly, without too much skill use.

I would also argue heavily against the fact the revenant has “solid defences” he doesn’t. In fact, one of the poorest in the game.

The sword block is fine, but only provides the briefest of defences.
The same for the staff deflect.
His evades are incredibly short.

He lacks:

A total immunity skill (Signet of Stone/Endure Pain)
Has little or no access to Protection
Has no spike-self healing (ala Medi Guardian) though he does have some reasonable passive healing through traits
Has little mobility to avoid damage entirely
Has no access to regeneration outside of Ventari (even then it’s small)
Little if any access to Vigor

All of these things make Warriors, Guardians, Elementalists and heck, even Ranger’s incredibly tanky without compromising on damage.

I love the revenant as much as the next person, but lets not peddle the fact it’s a profession that has lots of solid defences when it can barely cleanse conditions outside of Mallyx. ;D

OP: Energy is too hard to manage in PvP
Thread: Energy is perfectly fine in PvE, L2P noob!
OP: -_-

I agree with you OP. In PvP you just can’t pace yourself like you can in PvE or you’re going to die. No other profession is pacing themselves, so they can unload everything on you and you can’t do very much to defend yourself or counter.

Adamantium.3682:

OP: Energy is too hard to manage in PvP
Thread: Energy is perfectly fine in PvE, L2P noob!
OP: -_-

I agree with you OP. In PvP you just can’t pace yourself like you can in PvE or you’re going to die. No other profession is pacing themselves, so they can unload everything on you and you can’t do very much to defend yourself or counter.

That’s the purpose of legend swap though. Unload what you have, deplete all energy and swap. You just need to find 2 legends that work well with your playstyle in pvp

Lewis Burnell.2493:

The sword block is fine, but only provides the briefest of defences.
The same for the staff deflect.
His evades are incredibly short.

He lacks:

A total immunity skill (Signet of Stone/Endure Pain)
Has little or no access to Protection
Has no spike-self healing (ala Medi Guardian) though he does have some reasonable passive healing through traits
Has little mobility to avoid damage entirely
Has no access to regeneration outside of Ventari (even then it’s small)
Little if any access to Vigor

All of these things make Warriors, Guardians, Elementalists and heck, even Ranger’s incredibly tanky without compromising on damage.

I love the revenant as much as the next person, but lets not peddle the fact it’s a profession that has lots of solid defences when it can barely cleanse conditions outside of Mallyx. ;D

1.Now that stuff been fixed and buffed lets look at wep skills;

-sword 3 for 2sec evade
-offhand sword 2 sec block on 12cd
-offhand sword shadowstep back for gtfo moment
-staff 3 for 2sec block on 10cd which also blinds
-staff 5 for 1sec evade which also cc and deal incredible amount of damage, 20cd
-hammer 3 which also evade for 1.25sec on 8cd
-hammer 4 with 6sec projectile block on 12cd

I fail to understand how he lack defenses, the sword on it own has plenty of it already. People been complaining about gear shield (3sec block) with 16cd so it should give you a idea. I wish my warrior could have so much active defenses to choice on his wep skill bar instead of being forced to facetank most of incoming damage.

2.About immunity;

-Shield 5 is basically immunity to any incoming damage, and i doubt defiance bar will be that easy to break, espesially in soloq, and i dont think you playing in esl
-Another is oh kiteen trait on 30cd like shield when you hit 25% hp
-Glint heal – 4sec of converting all damage into healing

3.About protection;

-protection on cc
-protection from f2,
-protection from elite skill on glint

The amount of protection is seriously high. Which class has access to similiar amount of protection? All i have in mind is bunker guardian and nobody else.

4.Healing.

True, it has little to no spike healing as it is supposed to be his weakness i guess, the sustained healing inst bad tho and he has potential to heal for quite a bit with life siphons from sides/back and from vul. Think about revenant more as about warrior with healing signet – you heal over time, not at once if you use shiro/ventari.

5. Mobility to avoid damage

True, he has nearly no mobility to avoid damage, but i dont think its will be necessary anymore. You can always use impossible odds for superspeed and gtfo tho or riposting shadow or as mentioned above in my post sword 5

6. Lack of vigor

Id say it again..riposting shadow. Its a stunbreak, it evades, and it returns 50% of endurance. Thats way better than nerfed vigor.

All in all i except rev to be quite solid class for next beta right now with many potential builds to the point where my head explodes about the amount of possibilities..

Revenant has as much or more protection than any other class. The protection on hard CC trait is really strong, and the herald f2 gives you 1/4th uptime alone (plus regen). You get stability on dodge.

The staff block is a 2 second block (that’s the same duration as shelter, and has more uptime than engineer’s gear shield) on a 10 second CD. That’s 20% uptime on block. And it blinds.

Swap to sword/sword, evade for a couple seconds while doing big damage, into another block on sword, dodge a couple times, swap staff and block again into another big damage evade.

Revenant has more block than guardian over a long enough period. And potential for evades on par with mesmer.

It has no totally immunity to direct damage (like endure pain and signet of stone, which both still are vulnerable to Condi’s) but has immunity to Condi’s through huge resistance availability.

Actually, I take that back. The dragon stance heal skill gives you 4 seconds immunity to all direct and condi damage.

Really, I hate to say it, but it’s a learn to play issue at this point. The only reason I don’t feel bad about saying it, is because everyone is in the same boat.

Edit: er. Same thing as above. Hehe.

skowcia.8257:

The amount of protection is seriously high. Which class has access to similiar amount of protection? All i have in mind is bunker guardian and nobody else.

You didn’t even mention shield 4 or Jalis.

Guys, we were talking this Beta weekend Revenant, not with Glint, the shield and herald. Thanks to the Herald and changes Roy has made it’s in a fantastic position right now. The only issue is, certainly in sPvP, energy is often a problem and you’re forced to take Mallyx.

im with u on this one with the glint specalation we should had a grandmaster trait that gave +2 upkeep while in combat.. that and really roy the grandmaster shield trait that if it proc will stop us from running and the passive is wothless too i rather have protection or even better lower cd for shield. and unlike thief there no reward for playing smart. like auto giving 2 energy per hit or something or in case of glint if u use a upkeep and finish it u get half the energy back if traited maybe op but maybe put like 5sec cd max at 10sec or it will just be another worthless trait

WTb runes and sigils for energy!!!

Misguided.5139:

skowcia.8257:

The amount of protection is seriously high. Which class has access to similiar amount of protection? All i have in mind is bunker guardian and nobody else.

You didn’t even mention shield 4 or Jalis.

Theres so much that i simply forgot..lol i bet i missed some more.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Guys, we were talking this Beta weekend Revenant, not with Glint, the shield and herald. Thanks to the Herald and changes Roy has made it’s in a fantastic position right now. The only issue is, certainly in sPvP, energy is often a problem and you’re forced to take Mallyx.

Why you talking about what was in the last beta? Changes were made and the stuff you listened is not actual anymore. We might as well start complaining about lack of wep swap, dps wep and legend at this point.

While i had a problem with energy on Mallyx as i wanted to have as high resistance uptime as i could, i had no troubles in power spec to manage energy and pull jade winds here and there and still have some energy left+ready swap. I would like to see gameplay of people that complaining about high energy usage as i have feeling they just mash buttons.

We have low cds on wep (except on staff 4 and 5), and nearly all of our utility skills has no cd. But the price is energy – we can adapt to our opponent and do the right thing at the right time without worrying much about “oh kitten my x skill is on cd, bam, dead”. If you want to spam jade winds then go ahead, nobody will stop you, but dont be surprised that youll find yourself defendless most of the time. Thats how energy management work, and thats the punishment for doing bad decisions. If we remove/drastically reduce energy cost revenant will end up in unbalanced op state that will result in cd’s like other professions and many nerfs. I rather keep current, more balanced and skillful system.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Xernth.8561:

Lewis Burnell.2493

In sPvP my typical rotation is:

Frigid Blitz > Searing Fissure > Echoing Eruption > Jade Winds > Temporal Rift.

Within a few seconds I’m out of energy with no means of making it increase quicker. The only thing to do is slow the burst down so much, it’s no longer a burst.

If you land all that you’re supposed to be out of energy. If you could do all of those things and then do a bunch more it wouldn’t be a burst, it would be sustained.

Working as intended.

I’m not suggesting it isn’t working as intended. All I was highlighting was the fact that you’re instantly out of energy and unable to use any additional skills for a lengthy period of time. Unlike the thief, the revenant has no means to gain additional energy, which is what the original poster was talking about.

As a side point, I love the fact that people are objecting to his idea of allowing the revenant to gain some additional energy (through skills or traits) which is proven to have worked well on the thief and yet you’re resisting it for…what?

I’m “resisting” because I don’t think you’re case is very strong.

You’re using an elite in your opening rotation, telling us how strong it is (and you’re right) and then saying you’re out of energy.

The thing is, any additional energy management tools are going to be met with skill nerfs. I’d prefer to use fewer abilities and have them be really good than to have to string together many abilities that cost less, or increase available energy and have a corresponding loss in effectiveness.

Having said that, there’s a ton of gray area of course, and some tweaks might make sense to energy costs/regen/etc, but I don’t think its in a bad place at the moment given our powerful skills and their cooldowns.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Recursivision.2367:

If you’re casually throwing jade winds into your rotation after using every single weapon skill, that’s your problem. Also, you could switch legends at that point and be right back at 50. I’m not seeing a problem.

I had a lot of success in PvP last beta, personally, and I can admit I’m nowhere near hitting the skill cap for the profession.

Revenant actually has pretty kitten solid defenses at the moment. Running staff sword/sword you have a 2 second block on a 10 second cooldown, a 2 second block on a 15 second cooldown, a high damage skill with built in evade on a 10 second cooldown, and another on a 20 second cooldown. That’s just the weapon skills. We can talk about how mallyx hard counters melee builds and Condi’s too if you’d like.

The recent changes are going to be pretty huge by themselves. Energy doesn’t need to be touched.

Why would I be “casually” throwing Jade Wind’s into the mix when it offers an enormous burn, combined with the root? I use it because the burst I described is huge damage. Did I state somewhere that I did poorly in sPvP? (quite the opposite) but that doesn’t change the fact that the revenant can – and does – run out of energy regularly, without too much skill use.

I would also argue heavily against the fact the revenant has “solid defences” he doesn’t. In fact, one of the poorest in the game.

The sword block is fine, but only provides the briefest of defences.
The same for the staff deflect.
His evades are incredibly short.

He lacks:

A total immunity skill (Signet of Stone/Endure Pain)
Has little or no access to Protection
Has no spike-self healing (ala Medi Guardian) though he does have some reasonable passive healing through traits
Has little mobility to avoid damage entirely
Has no access to regeneration outside of Ventari (even then it’s small)
Little if any access to Vigor

All of these things make Warriors, Guardians, Elementalists and heck, even Ranger’s incredibly tanky without compromising on damage.

I love the revenant as much as the next person, but lets not peddle the fact it’s a profession that has lots of solid defences when it can barely cleanse conditions outside of Mallyx. ;D

I don’t think you watched the Glint rundown or all the new changes posted after it?

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Guys, we were talking this Beta weekend Revenant, not with Glint, the shield and herald. Thanks to the Herald and changes Roy has made it’s in a fantastic position right now. The only issue is, certainly in sPvP, energy is often a problem and you’re forced to take Mallyx.

No you aren’t. This guy beats a necro without Mallyx.

Inst that power necro tho? Howered i agree that Mallyx is not necessary by any means..

To be honest, I really think the energy is at its place. For berserker builds.. yes you are squishy. But now with Glint, things will change. That heal and block was really good.
And yea, I can agree on the statement that revenant needed more survival, but hey. Now “we” got a “oh kitten button”. Energy is fine, really. Im talking WvW solo roaming now, not PvE. PvP got a little harder because everyone was ganking revenants..
Everyone dies under gank I guess.

I don’t know why people are just masochist… so many people saying energy is fine while they know on their self that its not… then 2 weeks after HOT releases they just go back to their warriors because Reventant was kitten…..

Funny it seems all these people saying energy is fine are PvE players. PvE doesn’t count. You can literally roll your face on the keyboard and win at PvE.

PvP and WvW here, as are at least a couple of the other people saying it’s fine. Please demonstrate the trouble you are having in a video so that we can see more closely, thanks.

I’m also more into PvP and I think the energy system is fine as is. With that said I would still like to see energy costs removed from weapon skills and maybe some more active regen built into the class as I think that would be better for the overall feel and flow of the class ,but that is just a personal opinion. Regardless of if the energy system stays how it is right now or not I will still play the class with a smile on my face. I’ve seen many videos from players that prove that the Rev can work in it’s current state and that was pre buffs following the most recent BWE. Sure all videos are taken out of context ,but at least it is some form of visual evidence.

Recursivision.2367:

PvP and WvW here, as are at least a couple of the other people saying it’s fine. Please demonstrate the trouble you are having in a video so that we can see more closely, thanks.

Sure let me just launch up that beta right now…

Griffith.7238:

I’m also more into PvP and I think the energy system is fine as is. With that said I would still like to see energy costs removed from weapon skills and maybe some more active regen built into the class as I think that would be better for the overall feel and flow of the class ,but that is just a personal opinion. Regardless of if the energy system stays how it is right now or not I will still play the class with a smile on my face. I’ve seen many videos from players that prove that the Rev can work in it’s current state and that was pre buffs following the most recent BWE. Sure all videos are taken out of context ,but at least it is some form of visual evidence.

The only videos I’ve seen are wvw which is a pretty terrible part of the game.

I think the people saying it’s fine are also exaggerating the stance of those that don’ think so. It’s not that we’re saying energy needs doubled or such. It’s that after entering a fight and using a few weapon skills, you have not enough energy to use a utility and if you swap legends to get some more energy you’re now stuck in a legend that doesn’t have the utility you need at the moment. You’re very limited in the “oh @#$” moments.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

I’m also more into PvP and I think the energy system is fine as is. With that said I would still like to see energy costs removed from weapon skills and maybe some more active regen built into the class as I think that would be better for the overall feel and flow of the class ,but that is just a personal opinion. Regardless of if the energy system stays how it is right now or not I will still play the class with a smile on my face. I’ve seen many videos from players that prove that the Rev can work in it’s current state and that was pre buffs following the most recent BWE. Sure all videos are taken out of context ,but at least it is some form of visual evidence.

The only videos I’ve seen are wvw which is a pretty terrible part of the game.

I think the people saying it’s fine are also exaggerating the stance of those that don’ think so. It’s not that we’re saying energy needs doubled or such. It’s that after entering a fight and using a few weapon skills, you have not enough energy to use a utility and if you swap legends to get some more energy you’re now stuck in a legend that doesn’t have the utility you need at the moment. You’re very limited in the “oh @#$” moments.

Well as I’ve said many times I think having to Legend Swap on cd is a crappy mechanic ,but as of last BWE that’s all you needed to do to keep the energy up enough to wreck people. I don’t feel like searching for the all the links ,but just look around the forums there are several SPvP and 1v1 Duel videos of Revenants really bringing the pain.

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

I’m also more into PvP and I think the energy system is fine as is. With that said I would still like to see energy costs removed from weapon skills and maybe some more active regen built into the class as I think that would be better for the overall feel and flow of the class ,but that is just a personal opinion. Regardless of if the energy system stays how it is right now or not I will still play the class with a smile on my face. I’ve seen many videos from players that prove that the Rev can work in it’s current state and that was pre buffs following the most recent BWE. Sure all videos are taken out of context ,but at least it is some form of visual evidence.

The only videos I’ve seen are wvw which is a pretty terrible part of the game.

I think the people saying it’s fine are also exaggerating the stance of those that don’ think so. It’s not that we’re saying energy needs doubled or such. It’s that after entering a fight and using a few weapon skills, you have not enough energy to use a utility and if you swap legends to get some more energy you’re now stuck in a legend that doesn’t have the utility you need at the moment. You’re very limited in the “oh @#$” moments.

Well as I’ve said many times I think having to Legend Swap on cd is a crappy mechanic ,but as of last BWE that’s all you needed to do to keep the energy up enough to wreck people. I don’t feel like searching for the all the links ,but just look around the forums there are several SPvP and 1v1 Duel videos of Revenants really bringing the pain.

Sure if traited correctly they could do good enough damage against a single player. That’s not the issue. It’s when those oh crap moments happen often there isn’t the energy available when you need it. I don’t feel entering into combat just autoattacking to keep your energy up for the fight is a good way of doing things. There should be some other mechanic to give us a burst of energy besides swapping legends. Or if legend swapping stays the way to get energy I think we should have the choice of more legends like eles have more than 2 attunements. So we have better access to oh crap buttons. If my oh crap button is on legend 1 but I’m already on legend 1 and out of energy I can’t switch to 2 and then back because of the CD.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

I’m also more into PvP and I think the energy system is fine as is. With that said I would still like to see energy costs removed from weapon skills and maybe some more active regen built into the class as I think that would be better for the overall feel and flow of the class ,but that is just a personal opinion. Regardless of if the energy system stays how it is right now or not I will still play the class with a smile on my face. I’ve seen many videos from players that prove that the Rev can work in it’s current state and that was pre buffs following the most recent BWE. Sure all videos are taken out of context ,but at least it is some form of visual evidence.

The only videos I’ve seen are wvw which is a pretty terrible part of the game.

I think the people saying it’s fine are also exaggerating the stance of those that don’ think so. It’s not that we’re saying energy needs doubled or such. It’s that after entering a fight and using a few weapon skills, you have not enough energy to use a utility and if you swap legends to get some more energy you’re now stuck in a legend that doesn’t have the utility you need at the moment. You’re very limited in the “oh @#$” moments.

Well as I’ve said many times I think having to Legend Swap on cd is a crappy mechanic ,but as of last BWE that’s all you needed to do to keep the energy up enough to wreck people. I don’t feel like searching for the all the links ,but just look around the forums there are several SPvP and 1v1 Duel videos of Revenants really bringing the pain.

Sure if traited correctly they could do good enough damage against a single player. That’s not the issue. It’s when those oh crap moments happen often there isn’t the energy available when you need it. I don’t feel entering into combat just autoattacking to keep your energy up for the fight is a good way of doing things. There should be some other mechanic to give us a burst of energy besides swapping legends. Or if legend swapping stays the way to get energy I think we should have the choice of more legends like eles have more than 2 attunements. So we have better access to oh crap buttons. If my oh crap button is on legend 1 but I’m already on legend 1 and out of energy I can’t switch to 2 and then back because of the CD.

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

I’m also more into PvP and I think the energy system is fine as is. With that said I would still like to see energy costs removed from weapon skills and maybe some more active regen built into the class as I think that would be better for the overall feel and flow of the class ,but that is just a personal opinion. Regardless of if the energy system stays how it is right now or not I will still play the class with a smile on my face. I’ve seen many videos from players that prove that the Rev can work in it’s current state and that was pre buffs following the most recent BWE. Sure all videos are taken out of context ,but at least it is some form of visual evidence.

The only videos I’ve seen are wvw which is a pretty terrible part of the game.

I think the people saying it’s fine are also exaggerating the stance of those that don’ think so. It’s not that we’re saying energy needs doubled or such. It’s that after entering a fight and using a few weapon skills, you have not enough energy to use a utility and if you swap legends to get some more energy you’re now stuck in a legend that doesn’t have the utility you need at the moment. You’re very limited in the “oh @#$” moments.

Well as I’ve said many times I think having to Legend Swap on cd is a crappy mechanic ,but as of last BWE that’s all you needed to do to keep the energy up enough to wreck people. I don’t feel like searching for the all the links ,but just look around the forums there are several SPvP and 1v1 Duel videos of Revenants really bringing the pain.

Sure if traited correctly they could do good enough damage against a single player. That’s not the issue. It’s when those oh crap moments happen often there isn’t the energy available when you need it. I don’t feel entering into combat just autoattacking to keep your energy up for the fight is a good way of doing things. There should be some other mechanic to give us a burst of energy besides swapping legends. Or if legend swapping stays the way to get energy I think we should have the choice of more legends like eles have more than 2 attunements. So we have better access to oh crap buttons. If my oh crap button is on legend 1 but I’m already on legend 1 and out of energy I can’t switch to 2 and then back because of the CD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkJ-0_8XuTc

He barely used his utility skills. The majority of the time he used IO or the brick road I forget the name of. I don’t think he used an elite the entire first match. This says nothing about energy being fine just that you can kill scrubs without problem.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

I’m also more into PvP and I think the energy system is fine as is. With that said I would still like to see energy costs removed from weapon skills and maybe some more active regen built into the class as I think that would be better for the overall feel and flow of the class ,but that is just a personal opinion. Regardless of if the energy system stays how it is right now or not I will still play the class with a smile on my face. I’ve seen many videos from players that prove that the Rev can work in it’s current state and that was pre buffs following the most recent BWE. Sure all videos are taken out of context ,but at least it is some form of visual evidence.

The only videos I’ve seen are wvw which is a pretty terrible part of the game.

I think the people saying it’s fine are also exaggerating the stance of those that don’ think so. It’s not that we’re saying energy needs doubled or such. It’s that after entering a fight and using a few weapon skills, you have not enough energy to use a utility and if you swap legends to get some more energy you’re now stuck in a legend that doesn’t have the utility you need at the moment. You’re very limited in the “oh @#$” moments.

Well as I’ve said many times I think having to Legend Swap on cd is a crappy mechanic ,but as of last BWE that’s all you needed to do to keep the energy up enough to wreck people. I don’t feel like searching for the all the links ,but just look around the forums there are several SPvP and 1v1 Duel videos of Revenants really bringing the pain.

Sure if traited correctly they could do good enough damage against a single player. That’s not the issue. It’s when those oh crap moments happen often there isn’t the energy available when you need it. I don’t feel entering into combat just autoattacking to keep your energy up for the fight is a good way of doing things. There should be some other mechanic to give us a burst of energy besides swapping legends. Or if legend swapping stays the way to get energy I think we should have the choice of more legends like eles have more than 2 attunements. So we have better access to oh crap buttons. If my oh crap button is on legend 1 but I’m already on legend 1 and out of energy I can’t switch to 2 and then back because of the CD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkJ-0_8XuTc

He barely used his utility skills. The majority of the time he used IO or the brick road I forget the name of. I don’t think he used an elite the entire first match. This says nothing about energy being fine just that you can kill scrubs without problem.

Guess we didn’t watch the same video. You also should’ve watched the duel video ,but regardless he used every single utility in both Shiro and Jalis multiple times. If I really cared that much I could go back and time stamp each usage of a utility ,but I’m sure you would make up some other excuse. He even used Rite of The Great Dwarf and Force Engagement several times and most would consider those a complete waste of energy.

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

I’m also more into PvP and I think the energy system is fine as is. With that said I would still like to see energy costs removed from weapon skills and maybe some more active regen built into the class as I think that would be better for the overall feel and flow of the class ,but that is just a personal opinion. Regardless of if the energy system stays how it is right now or not I will still play the class with a smile on my face. I’ve seen many videos from players that prove that the Rev can work in it’s current state and that was pre buffs following the most recent BWE. Sure all videos are taken out of context ,but at least it is some form of visual evidence.

The only videos I’ve seen are wvw which is a pretty terrible part of the game.

I think the people saying it’s fine are also exaggerating the stance of those that don’ think so. It’s not that we’re saying energy needs doubled or such. It’s that after entering a fight and using a few weapon skills, you have not enough energy to use a utility and if you swap legends to get some more energy you’re now stuck in a legend that doesn’t have the utility you need at the moment. You’re very limited in the “oh @#$” moments.

Well as I’ve said many times I think having to Legend Swap on cd is a crappy mechanic ,but as of last BWE that’s all you needed to do to keep the energy up enough to wreck people. I don’t feel like searching for the all the links ,but just look around the forums there are several SPvP and 1v1 Duel videos of Revenants really bringing the pain.

Sure if traited correctly they could do good enough damage against a single player. That’s not the issue. It’s when those oh crap moments happen often there isn’t the energy available when you need it. I don’t feel entering into combat just autoattacking to keep your energy up for the fight is a good way of doing things. There should be some other mechanic to give us a burst of energy besides swapping legends. Or if legend swapping stays the way to get energy I think we should have the choice of more legends like eles have more than 2 attunements. So we have better access to oh crap buttons. If my oh crap button is on legend 1 but I’m already on legend 1 and out of energy I can’t switch to 2 and then back because of the CD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkJ-0_8XuTc

He barely used his utility skills. The majority of the time he used IO or the brick road I forget the name of. I don’t think he used an elite the entire first match. This says nothing about energy being fine just that you can kill scrubs without problem.

Guess we didn’t watch the same video. You also should’ve watched the duel video ,but regardless he used every single utility in both Shiro and Jalis multiple times. If I really cared that much I could go back and time stamp each usage of a utility ,but I’m sure you would make up some other excuse. He even used Rite of The Great Dwarf and Force Engagement several times and most would consider those a complete waste of energy.

Ok I rewatched and he did use it a couple times. Still his use is fairly low. I use utilities far more on other professions.

Care to name these “other professions” and what utilities?

Sylent.3165:

Adamantium.3682:

OP: Energy is too hard to manage in PvP
Thread: Energy is perfectly fine in PvE, L2P noob!
OP: -_-

I agree with you OP. In PvP you just can’t pace yourself like you can in PvE or you’re going to die. No other profession is pacing themselves, so they can unload everything on you and you can’t do very much to defend yourself or counter.

That’s the purpose of legend swap though. Unload what you have, deplete all energy and swap. You just need to find 2 legends that work well with your playstyle in pvp

I may be wrong here, but I’m pretty sure I am not and am willing to bet gold on it. Energy gain is NOT the purpose of Legend swap. Energy gain is an additional benefit to the real reason of Legend swap, which is the utility gain.

@Everyone else, I agree that PVP, and yes, WvW too, has a bit of a problem with energy whereas with PvE, you can just back off a bit and let the energy restore without a problem. When it comes to PC targets (Player Characters) you don’t have the luxury of backing off a bit.

That being said, I think both sides are a bit exaggerating here.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

There are no plans to add skills or traits which affect energy gain, upkeep gain, or energy cost of skills for the Revenant. These traits very quickly become mandatory choices as it means you can use your skills more often and in the case of energy, it would apply to all your skills since they all use energy. This is a dramatic increase in power across the board.

These kind of traits makes for less interesting choices and cause many problems with balance, often forcing skills to be weaker to compensate for the possibility of a player having all these traits equipped meaning they can use skills much more often then a player without them. But of course there will be balance on on energy costs and recharges of skills to make sure everything feels good and balanced for what it does in the toolkit of the revenant.

I agree with the reasoning. It’s probably best if energy just feels like it’s in a good spot baseline, I agree. But I have an oddball question for you. Have you found it difficult to balance Energy between pve and pvp, where pvp it doesn’t feel TOO limiting and in pve it’s still interesting and not negligible to maintain energy?

As a thief, I know why you decided that… I actually can’t make a build without the Trickery traitline :S

Roy Cronacher.1576:

There are no plans to add skills or traits which affect energy gain, upkeep gain, or energy cost of skills for the Revenant. These traits very quickly become mandatory choices as it means you can use your skills more often and in the case of energy, it would apply to all your skills since they all use energy. This is a dramatic increase in power across the board.

These kind of traits makes for less interesting choices and cause many problems with balance, often forcing skills to be weaker to compensate for the possibility of a player having all these traits equipped meaning they can use skills much more often then a player without them. But of course there will be balance on on energy costs and recharges of skills to make sure everything feels good and balanced for what it does in the toolkit of the revenant.

That’s a good decision and I agree with that.

One thing that players are worried, though, is how upkeep skills may make the profession way too reliant on auto-attacks. Have you ever considered experimenting with upkeep skills that remove 5 energy regen ticks instead of 7? You would still lose your energy over time, but you would only lose it by using skills yourself.

I can understand that, in some scenarios, the -7 energy pip is important for all-or-nothing decisions. Shiro’s upkeep is a good example of that – you wouldn’t certainly want players to be able to maintain it forever. However, some other upkeep skills would greatly benefit if used alongside other utilities – like mallyx elite, for example, but it happens that said utilities skills have very severe costs and, to be honest, it’s not like the playerbase would want to see those costs lowered at the cost (lol) of making the skills weaker. Another similar scenario might be with the new jalis hammers. Now that it is a defensive upkeep, you may want to combo it with your taunt, but your entire bar will be depleted very fast if you do that (well, to be honest, the taunt skill is also a bit overcosted at the moment, imo).

Roy Cronacher.1576:

There are no plans to add skills or traits which affect energy gain, upkeep gain, or energy cost of skills for the Revenant. These traits very quickly become mandatory choices as it means you can use your skills more often and in the case of energy, it would apply to all your skills since they all use energy. This is a dramatic increase in power across the board.

These kind of traits makes for less interesting choices and cause many problems with balance, often forcing skills to be weaker to compensate for the possibility of a player having all these traits equipped meaning they can use skills much more often then a player without them. But of course there will be balance on on energy costs and recharges of skills to make sure everything feels good and balanced for what it does in the toolkit of the revenant.

I agree thanks for not changing energy gains. It just isn’t needed

The reason you wont see energy traits like that is because revy skills have cooldowns thief skill do not. Unless you are key smashing you should not have a problem with energy upkeep

Jade Arkadian.9280:

As a thief, I know why you decided that… I actually can’t make a build without the Trickery traitline :S

Lulz same with necro,war and mesmer(DE). I said it before what has been used and failed will not be used again.

Sagat.3285:

Jade Arkadian.9280:

As a thief, I know why you decided that… I actually can’t make a build without the Trickery traitline :S

Lulz same with necro,war and mesmer(DE). I said it before what has been used and failed will not be used again.

Yeah, stuff like that just cripple the classes and should be totally removed and reworked as it creates too many “must have traits”. I dont even know why people asked for it as in the end revenant would end with extremaly limited choices in traits.

Hopefully people will stop asking for a changes now that Roy jumped in and cleaned it up. Welcome to “autoatk 24/7” haha

I’m totally good with that kind of setup (not being able to spam skills) since I prefer using skills situationally rather than having complex skill rotations. But, that means that skills need to feel powerful/rewarding when used.

I hope a number of people will really focus on that during the next beta: whether skills feel rewarding relative to their energy cost.