Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Hate to say it but..
I’ve been mentioning this to people so hopefully they get on board with it.
Enhanced Bulwark, alongside the Resistance(which we don’t really…need anymore without the Self-Condis), is what is causing the Viper Revenant to be so resilient. You really can’t abuse Mallyx’s huge weakness when he has 7+ seconds of Stability (and 2 stacks for a large portion of that time) every time he rolls.
This, combined with Eye for an Eye, makes it a nightmare to handle the Viper Revenant.
It really should be changed as it makes 0 sense in the Herald line as is anyway. The only way we can get Stability is through:
- Guardian
- Mesmer/Chrono Copying Boons around
- Jalis
- Retribution
So to make the best use of this GM trait, we’re forced into either an entirely different trait line or a half-functioning Legend.
My suggestion? Make it apply AoE Protection whenever you Block/Evade an attack or alternatively make it apply AoE Aegis whenever you Block an attack or to encourage more energy spending: Pulse out an extra AoE boon/condi whenever you have -8 or more energy degen, which would allow every legend to benefit from it in some way.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
No. The CC weakness and application of stability is one of the most interesting things about rev.
downed state is bad for PVP
No. The CC weakness and application of stability is one of the most interesting things about rev.
I don’t find it interesting to constantly dodge for perma-stability. There’s no real thought in it.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
Funnily enough, Daredevils (and probably CC-heavy Warriors) could have quite an effect on the current Viper Revenants, but are not used at all due to several other reasons.
Warrior nope. Even with hammer+mace/shield he wont last long enough to do a kitten. Thief counter rev quite nicely and can destroy viper rev tho. But cause community screams its unviable then its “unviable”.. till another esl team bring thief out to crush revs. Braindead folks
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
I actually think a strong argument could be made that Viper Revenant could be significantly toned down by simply changing Durability Runes.
But I also think the thing that makes Mallyx not just viable but rather mandatory right now is the access to resistance. A revenant without resistance is just asking to get shut down by condis. The amount of cc in this game right now is so insane that two stacks of stab on dodge for investing in a grandmaster trait seems reasonable to me. But better to try to avoid the ccs on Viper Revenant than tank them imo. They could absolutely take Bulwark out of Herald but I don’t think it would make much of a difference for the meta Viper Revenant build. I’m basing this on what I’m seeing watching Pro League players but also from my own experience playing it. It don’t think it wins by walking through ccs, I think it wins by stacking resistance and by being an extremely effective offensive pressurer via coordinated boon strips/bursts on focus targets.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
I actually think a strong argument could be made that Viper Revenant could be significantly toned down by simply changing Durability Runes.
But I also think the thing that makes Mallyx not just viable but rather mandatory right now is the access to resistance. A revenant without resistance is just asking to get shut down by condis. The amount of cc in this game right now is so insane that two stacks of stab on dodge for investing in a grandmaster trait seems reasonable to me. But better to try to avoid the ccs on Viper Revenant than tank them imo. They could absolutely take Bulwark out of Herald but I don’t think it would make much of a difference for the meta Viper Revenant build. I’m basing this on what I’m seeing watching Pro League players but also from my own experience playing it. It don’t think it wins by walking through ccs, I think it wins by stacking resistance and by being an extremely effective offensive pressurer via coordinated boon strips/bursts on focus targets.
It’s really a combination of both the Stability and the Resistance. Prevention is better than a cure; I.E. not needing to pop Stun Breaks or cleanses or use weapon dodges/blocks is overall better than having to react to them.
Anyway, assume that only Enhanced Bulwark is gone and now they don’t have perma-Stab. Now suddenly they’re pretty vulnerable to CC as soon as they swap to Mallyx and maintaining the Resistance they need to survive Conditions is also more difficult due to the fact that you can actually be CC’d.
Mallyx would be MUCH riskier overall and, alongside certain design changes that are needed for certain traits and certain skills, would also reward skillful play much more.
That’s how I view it anyway. IMO, Mallyx should be all about high risk and high reward and the current iteration of the Viper Revenant is way too safe for what it can do. That being said, I would also love a functionality change on Embrace the Darkness so it can do something that doesn’t compete with Unyielding Anguish (both try to keep enemies inside a 240 radius and pulse out Torment…).
It’s really a combination of both the Stability and the Resistance. Prevention is better than a cure; I.E. not needing to pop Stun Breaks or cleanses or use weapon dodges/blocks is overall better than having to react to them.
Anyway, assume that only Enhanced Bulwark is gone and now they don’t have perma-Stab. Now suddenly they’re pretty vulnerable to CC as soon as they swap to Mallyx and maintaining the Resistance they need to survive Conditions is also more difficult due to the fact that you can actually be CC’d.
Mallyx would be MUCH riskier overall and, alongside certain design changes that are needed for certain traits and certain skills, would also reward skillful play much more.That’s how I view it anyway. IMO, Mallyx should be all about high risk and high reward and the current iteration of the Viper Revenant is way too safe for what it can do. That being said, I would also love a functionality change on Embrace the Darkness so it can do something that doesn’t compete with Unyielding Anguish (both try to keep enemies inside a 240 radius and pulse out Torment…).
I actually hope that they try the sort of changes you’re talking about. I have my own ideas about what they’re going to go after when they eventually decide to try to balance Revenant and I fear it will be far harsher than a nerf to Enhanced Bulwark.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
You said it perfectly, without double stability on dodge, Mallyx would be completely unplayable. That’s not a good thing.
In Mallyx, the weakness is direct damage which you have very few answers to. You also don’t have lots of energy regen to get additional dodges in Mallyx. The answer to glass Mallyx revenants is power builds.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
You said it perfectly, without double stability on dodge, Mallyx would be completely unplayable. That’s not a good thing.
In Mallyx, the weakness is direct damage which you have very few answers to. You also don’t have lots of energy regen to get additional dodges in Mallyx. The answer to glass Mallyx revenants is power builds.
Or rather than forcing Revenants to run Retribution + Herald to make Mallyx playable (+Corruption), maybe just make Mallyx himself better while removing the cancerous perma-Stab and stupid amounts of Resistance.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
You said it perfectly, without double stability on dodge, Mallyx would be completely unplayable. That’s not a good thing.
In Mallyx, the weakness is direct damage which you have very few answers to. You also don’t have lots of energy regen to get additional dodges in Mallyx. The answer to glass Mallyx revenants is power builds.
Or actually rework Mallyx to become viable. You cant carry whole legend on 3 traitlines cause thats how much you have to invest into Mallyx right now. Corruption for resistance, retribution for stab on dodge, herald for second stab.
Look at Shiro..its good cus it work with any traitline. Nerfed Shiro will end the live of revenant. Even with it kitten joke heal its in fact the olny thing we got. Nerf riposting shadows and were done.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
You said it perfectly, without double stability on dodge, Mallyx would be completely unplayable. That’s not a good thing.
In Mallyx, the weakness is direct damage which you have very few answers to. You also don’t have lots of energy regen to get additional dodges in Mallyx. The answer to glass Mallyx revenants is power builds.
Or actually rework Mallyx to become viable. You cant carry whole legend on 3 traitlines cause thats how much you have to invest into Mallyx right now. Corruption for resistance, retribution for stab on dodge, herald for second stab.
Look at Shiro..its good cus it work with any traitline. Nerfed Shiro will end the live of revenant. Even with it kitten joke heal its in fact the olny thing we got. Nerf riposting shadows and were done.
I’m with you there, Mallyx being reworked along with your change might work. You’re also right that Shiro does all the heavy lifting right now and a nerf to Riposting Shadows would be the death knell for doing anything but standing back with hammer.
I know you think WvWers are terrible, and there’s no question I am bad, but I’m also afraid to see my two stacks of stability go in wvw environments without some kind of compensation. The stability is the only thing that enables semi- or full frontlining with Revenant in wvw, and I’d really tike to do something other than stand in the back with a hammer.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
You said it perfectly, without double stability on dodge, Mallyx would be completely unplayable. That’s not a good thing.
In Mallyx, the weakness is direct damage which you have very few answers to. You also don’t have lots of energy regen to get additional dodges in Mallyx. The answer to glass Mallyx revenants is power builds.
Or actually rework Mallyx to become viable. You cant carry whole legend on 3 traitlines cause thats how much you have to invest into Mallyx right now. Corruption for resistance, retribution for stab on dodge, herald for second stab.
Look at Shiro..its good cus it work with any traitline. Nerfed Shiro will end the live of revenant. Even with it kitten joke heal its in fact the olny thing we got. Nerf riposting shadows and were done.
I’m with you there, Mallyx being reworked along with your change might work. You’re also right that Shiro does all the heavy lifting right now and a nerf to Riposting Shadows would be the death knell for doing anything but standing back with hammer.
I know you think WvWers are terrible, and there’s no question I am bad, but I’m also afraid to see my two stacks of stability go in wvw environments without some kind of compensation. The stability is the only thing that enables semi- or full frontlining with Revenant in wvw, and I’d really tike to do something other than stand in the back with a hammer.
Simple: Make Jalis’ road not complete garbage. Maybe make it apply AoE Stability when casted and then pulse out Swiftness and Retal (and make it build faster).
Jalis should be that front-lining Legend anyhow. Just running into the fray without fear.
I think the real weakness of mallyx specs is vulnerability to boon stripping combined with lack of a stun break.
downed state is bad for PVP
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
You said it perfectly, without double stability on dodge, Mallyx would be completely unplayable. That’s not a good thing.
In Mallyx, the weakness is direct damage which you have very few answers to. You also don’t have lots of energy regen to get additional dodges in Mallyx. The answer to glass Mallyx revenants is power builds.
Or actually rework Mallyx to become viable. You cant carry whole legend on 3 traitlines cause thats how much you have to invest into Mallyx right now. Corruption for resistance, retribution for stab on dodge, herald for second stab.
Look at Shiro..its good cus it work with any traitline. Nerfed Shiro will end the live of revenant. Even with it kitten joke heal its in fact the olny thing we got. Nerf riposting shadows and were done.
I’m with you there, Mallyx being reworked along with your change might work. You’re also right that Shiro does all the heavy lifting right now and a nerf to Riposting Shadows would be the death knell for doing anything but standing back with hammer.
I know you think WvWers are terrible, and there’s no question I am bad, but I’m also afraid to see my two stacks of stability go in wvw environments without some kind of compensation. The stability is the only thing that enables semi- or full frontlining with Revenant in wvw, and I’d really tike to do something other than stand in the back with a hammer.
Simple: Make Jalis’ road not complete garbage. Maybe make it apply AoE Stability when casted and then pulse out Swiftness and Retal (and make it build faster).
Jalis should be that front-lining Legend anyhow. Just running into the fray without fear.
The road will always sux in all game modes. It need to be removed and changed to pulsing stab+weakness in 240 radius on rev like i suggested many times..along with removal of cd+stunbreak. Rite also should imo works like endure pain for rev with lower cost. Jalis can work in future but it need some serious buffs/fixes which possibly will never happen.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
I don’t really think this is the issue with Viper Revenant.
It is. That what makes Mallyx viable and removes his weakness. Without double stab on dodge you could cc rev in Mallyx 100-0. Try playing without it and see yourself. The difference is huge.
You said it perfectly, without double stability on dodge, Mallyx would be completely unplayable. That’s not a good thing.
In Mallyx, the weakness is direct damage which you have very few answers to. You also don’t have lots of energy regen to get additional dodges in Mallyx. The answer to glass Mallyx revenants is power builds.
Or actually rework Mallyx to become viable. You cant carry whole legend on 3 traitlines cause thats how much you have to invest into Mallyx right now. Corruption for resistance, retribution for stab on dodge, herald for second stab.
Look at Shiro..its good cus it work with any traitline. Nerfed Shiro will end the live of revenant. Even with it kitten joke heal its in fact the olny thing we got. Nerf riposting shadows and were done.
I’m with you there, Mallyx being reworked along with your change might work. You’re also right that Shiro does all the heavy lifting right now and a nerf to Riposting Shadows would be the death knell for doing anything but standing back with hammer.
I know you think WvWers are terrible, and there’s no question I am bad, but I’m also afraid to see my two stacks of stability go in wvw environments without some kind of compensation. The stability is the only thing that enables semi- or full frontlining with Revenant in wvw, and I’d really tike to do something other than stand in the back with a hammer.
Simple: Make Jalis’ road not complete garbage. Maybe make it apply AoE Stability when casted and then pulse out Swiftness and Retal (and make it build faster).
Jalis should be that front-lining Legend anyhow. Just running into the fray without fear.
The road will always sux in all game modes. It need to be removed and changed to pulsing stab+weakness in 240 radius on rev like i suggested many times..along with removal of cd+stunbreak. Rite also should imo works like endure pain for rev with lower cost. Jalis can work in future but it need some serious buffs/fixes which possibly will never happen.
The road can function if it worked much faster. Stun break added would also be nice.
Rite being cheaper and being an Endure Pain is bound to cause problems. Imagine popping Rite -> Sword 3 -> Shield 5
That would be 10 full seconds of direct damage being useless and you’re only a few seconds away from popping Rite again which you can then chain into Staff 3 and Staff 5. You would also still have both your dodges.
If Rite is changed, I’d prefer it just costed less energy as an AoE 50% damage reduction is already pretty good.
Road fuction on a limited tiny space. In wvw you will get at best one stack of stab due to how mobile it is. In spvp it doesnt even cover the point to make any real use of it. In hot zones bosses dance like crazy so theres no way to make any use of road either. Also in all 3 gamemodes you can take heavy damage if you decide to stay in it for stab. Nope, even if faster it wont work.
I personally think rite should be an upkeep cus i like the stone effect on my toon xd
Im howered not sure if that is a realistic scenario being able to chain everything like mad. Rite wont prevent you from being bursted pretty much tho, its like a necro ds that also reduce damage by 50%. Meanwhile tempest run with perma -40% protection.
Fun facts tho;
Originally rite worked like endure pain
You can gain 100% reduction with rite already when combined with protection, vengeful hammers and the trait to reduce damage at 75% from retribution.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Road fuction on a limited tiny space. In wvw you will get at best one stack of stab due to how mobile it is. In spvp it doesnt even cover the point to make any real use of it. In hot zones bosses dance like crazy so theres no way to make any use of road either. Also in all 3 gamemodes you can take heavy damage if you decide to stay in it for stab. Nope, even if faster it wont work.
I personally think rite should be an upkeep cus i like the stone effect on my toon xd
Im howered not sure if that is a realistic scenario being able to chain everything like mad. Rite wont prevent you from being bursted pretty much tho, its like a necro ds that also reduce damage by 50%. Meanwhile tempest run with perma -40% protection.Fun facts tho;
Originally rite worked like endure pain
You can gain 100% reduction with rite already when combined with protection, vengeful hammers and the trait to reduce damage at 75% from retribution.
I did say that the road should give AoE Stab on cast and pulse something else.
How is it not realistic? You’ll regenerate 25 energy in the time that Rite ends, use Shield 5 and regenerate 15 energy as it ends and then use Sword 3 or whatever you’d like.
10 seconds of direct damage being completely useless without dodging once.
AFAIK the damage reductions are multiplicative, not additive, so you will never get 100% reduction with the current Revenant. I tested this myself a while back. You’ll end up taking ~24% of the original damage, but that’s it.
Road fuction on a limited tiny space. In wvw you will get at best one stack of stab due to how mobile it is. In spvp it doesnt even cover the point to make any real use of it. In hot zones bosses dance like crazy so theres no way to make any use of road either. Also in all 3 gamemodes you can take heavy damage if you decide to stay in it for stab. Nope, even if faster it wont work.
I personally think rite should be an upkeep cus i like the stone effect on my toon xd
Im howered not sure if that is a realistic scenario being able to chain everything like mad. Rite wont prevent you from being bursted pretty much tho, its like a necro ds that also reduce damage by 50%. Meanwhile tempest run with perma -40% protection.Fun facts tho;
Originally rite worked like endure pain
You can gain 100% reduction with rite already when combined with protection, vengeful hammers and the trait to reduce damage at 75% from retribution.I did say that the road should give AoE Stab on cast and pulse something else.
How is it not realistic? You’ll regenerate 25 energy in the time that Rite ends, use Shield 5 and regenerate 15 energy as it ends and then use Sword 3 or whatever you’d like.
10 seconds of direct damage being completely useless without dodging once.AFAIK the damage reductions are multiplicative, not additive, so you will never get 100% reduction with the current Revenant. I tested this myself a while back. You’ll end up taking ~24% of the original damage, but that’s it.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Road fuction on a limited tiny space. In wvw you will get at best one stack of stab due to how mobile it is. In spvp it doesnt even cover the point to make any real use of it. In hot zones bosses dance like crazy so theres no way to make any use of road either. Also in all 3 gamemodes you can take heavy damage if you decide to stay in it for stab. Nope, even if faster it wont work.
I personally think rite should be an upkeep cus i like the stone effect on my toon xd
Im howered not sure if that is a realistic scenario being able to chain everything like mad. Rite wont prevent you from being bursted pretty much tho, its like a necro ds that also reduce damage by 50%. Meanwhile tempest run with perma -40% protection.Fun facts tho;
Originally rite worked like endure pain
You can gain 100% reduction with rite already when combined with protection, vengeful hammers and the trait to reduce damage at 75% from retribution.I did say that the road should give AoE Stab on cast and pulse something else.
How is it not realistic? You’ll regenerate 25 energy in the time that Rite ends, use Shield 5 and regenerate 15 energy as it ends and then use Sword 3 or whatever you’d like.
10 seconds of direct damage being completely useless without dodging once.AFAIK the damage reductions are multiplicative, not additive, so you will never get 100% reduction with the current Revenant. I tested this myself a while back. You’ll end up taking ~24% of the original damage, but that’s it.
Hmm, my bad. I swear I tested this exact same thing during BWE and I still took damage.
Yep, pretty much its its already possible so i dont really see a problem. Imo dunno. I would like to see rite making immune to 100% on it own while spinning hammers reducing by 33%
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
If you wanna nerf viper rev, there are many more options you can go for. Why nerf something that instantly hits every build?
Get some work on the unlisted unblockable perm resistance immunity embrace the darkness first and nerf banish enchantment slightly. It’s way too strong for such low energy cost.
If you wanna nerf viper rev, there are many more options you can go for. Why nerf something that instantly hits every build?
Get some work on the unlisted unblockable perm resistance immunity embrace the darkness first and nerf banish enchantment slightly. It’s way too strong for such low energy cost.
So you want to nerf Mallyx harder (who’s only functioning because he runs three specific trait lines) instead of just getting rid of the cancer perma-stability that only Viper Rev’s are really using?
A trait that also makes no sense in the Herald line?
Get rid of the problem directly, change Mallyx accordingly so he’s not garbage without it.
@Burtnik: yea, it’s possible, but it also requires multiple things to be stacked on you and tons of energy. Changing it to be cheaper and much easier to pull off doesn’t sound like a great idea, especially when the current Rite is AoE.
a week after the release of HOT:
rev is under powered/mallyx is a useless trait/rev gets cc too much buff rev buff rev buff rev
a few months in now rev is over powered and needs a nerf, and mallyx rev is meta in pvp, lol im so glad devs dont make buff/nerf decisions based on forum post.
(edited by hypehype.9047)
Warrior nope. Even with hammer+mace/shield he wont last long enough to do a kitten. Thief counter rev quite nicely and can destroy viper rev tho. But cause community screams its unviable then its “unviable”.. till another esl team bring thief out to crush revs. Braindead folks
Corruption necro is superior to thief for dealing with viper rev’s.
Stability and resistance are all boons. With 3 signets that all corrupt 2 boons per pop they make short work of both boons. Couple this with necro’s will also passively corrupt 3 boons passively and corrupt further boons when entering reaper shroud. If the rev enters soothing bastion both warhorn and staff are unblockable by the rev. Also with the viper rev only utilizes 3 conditions to any affect, which necro is either going to consume or transfer. Also bear in mind all this corruption is Aoe and will tag anyone near the rev. If thief is the ‘crusher’ of viper rev, then necro is next level above that. That is why thief and warrior currently have no place, because they are second rate at any given task.
If you wanna nerf viper rev, there are many more options you can go for. Why nerf something that instantly hits every build?
Get some work on the unlisted unblockable perm resistance immunity embrace the darkness first and nerf banish enchantment slightly. It’s way too strong for such low energy cost.So you want to nerf Mallyx harder (who’s only functioning because he runs three specific trait lines) instead of just getting rid of the cancer perma-stability that only Viper Rev’s are really using?
A trait that also makes no sense in the Herald line?
Get rid of the problem directly, change Mallyx accordingly so he’s not garbage without it.
Wait… I don’t really understand your logic at this point:
You want a trait nerfed that is OP ‘’only on viper rev’’ (this is nonsense, since any rev with any build on herald should use this trait in sPvP)
You don’t want to nerf traits/skills that create a much bigger part of the specific viper rev build which make it OP.
OK.
I can already tell you, with so many blocks and evades, that’s not gonna hurt Rev much. They can just take the 25% shield block trait, which is even better when fighting more zerkery setups that can 1 shot you. Any good rev will just evade big CC’s anyway or will get supported by their teammates to get out. This change wont do anything about the strength of viper rev. It only makes it a bit less noob-friendly
The trait is good, I agree, but that’s what grandmaster traits are for. An ICD is possible so a rev can’t instantly stack 4 stacks by double dodging. Double dodging for such things should rather be punished, which I agree on.
If you wanna nerf viper rev, there are many more options you can go for. Why nerf something that instantly hits every build?
Get some work on the unlisted unblockable perm resistance immunity embrace the darkness first and nerf banish enchantment slightly. It’s way too strong for such low energy cost.So you want to nerf Mallyx harder (who’s only functioning because he runs three specific trait lines) instead of just getting rid of the cancer perma-stability that only Viper Rev’s are really using?
A trait that also makes no sense in the Herald line?
Get rid of the problem directly, change Mallyx accordingly so he’s not garbage without it.Wait… I don’t really understand your logic at this point:
You want a trait nerfed that is OP ‘’only on viper rev’’ (this is nonsense, since any rev with any build on herald should use this trait in sPvP)
You don’t want to nerf traits/skills that create a much bigger part of the specific viper rev build which make it OP.OK.
I can already tell you, with so many blocks and evades, that’s not gonna hurt Rev much. They can just take the 25% shield block trait, which is even better when fighting more zerkery setups that can 1 shot you. Any good rev will just evade big CC’s anyway or will get supported by their teammates to get out. This change wont do anything about the strength of viper rev. It only makes it a bit less noob-friendlyThe trait is good, I agree, but that’s what grandmaster traits are for. An ICD is possible so a rev can’t instantly stack 4 stacks by double dodging. Double dodging for such things should rather be punished, which I agree on.
Actually, you can only make use of this trait if you run Retribution (or lolJalis), so it’s not really “any Herald build”.
Then, the reason the Viper Revenant works so well is because it doesn’t need to worry so much about Stun Breaks due to the Stability. This makes Mallyx’s biggest weakness a non-issue for the most part. The whole idea was to have powerful utilities, but be vulnerable to CC. This is a pretty big weakness in the HoT meta where everyone has a bunch of them, but the Revenant can just shrug off a large portion of them with 2x Stability without fear.
You say that it wont affect them much at all, but is that really true? Instead of knowing that the next CCs wont even touch you because you dodged beforehand (which includes all the insanely fast CCs), now you have to actively react and can actually be punished. In fact, now you can actually be baited. You can’t just save your Weapon Skills for the big hits, you also gotta think about the CCs that you can’t passively ignore now. That affects the casting of ALL of your skills: Empowering Misery, Unyielding Anguish, Embrace the Darkness, Unrelenting Assault, Searing Fissure, Echoing Eruption, Jade Winds, etc.
There’s so much more behind it. Just the fact that you can almost completely ignore an entire mechanic makes Mallyx incredibly safe. That includes the Resistance he can produce. Yea, he’s weaker to burst damage which the other GM trait can fix to a certain degree (and the healing on Shield should also be looked at), but zerker set-ups aren’t exactly “the meta” right now, are they? Right now we have bunkers and viper revs who are virtually immune to control and conditions.
Hmm, you can say he can just dodge any CC, but then again, you can say that about anything can’t you? Fact is, you can’t dodge everything, especially when your opponent also has a brain; currently it’s a very brain-dead build with very few weaknesses.
Mathematically speaking, a single dodge should evade a single CC, but the current Viper Revenant can use a single dodge to effectively nullify up to two CCs for a certain period of time. In fact, you can use a dodge to evade an important attack and then be immune to two further CCs. That’s a lot of value in a single dodge.
Then you say team mates will support the Viper Revenant, but conversely, I can say the opponent will also have team mates supporting and they can all hammer down the Revenant with CCs and he’ll be doomed.
You say it just makes it less noob-friendly, but no, it returns a weakness to Mallyx. Without this trait, he gets a hell of a lot harder to use, a LOT riskier, has to manage his energy better (can’t really fall back on any Stability if he’s spamming Banish Enchantment and then can’t use Sword 3 or Shield 5 and good luck dodging every single possible CC).
Right now, is Mallyx actually overpowered? He has to run three specific trait lines to not be garbage. That sounds to me like the traits are carrying him big time and Mallyx himself isn’t functioning well.
In contrast, why are Shiro and Glint so powerful? They can be used in any type of build, with any trait lines (Glint being forced into Herald for obvious reasons), with any weapons
tl; dr You can’t actually dodge everything that’s important, especially not in team fights and changing this trait reintroduces some risk back into Mallyx, to the point where the reward he gets from his skills is more in-line with how safe the playstyle is (akin to a Zerker Staff Ele, but not as bad, where if you leave him alone he can be devastating, but if you actually fight him, he’ll have a difficult time, i.e. it’s a risky, but rewarding build).
Ideally, Enhanced Bulwark would not be the only change; Shield also gives a lot of sustain and probably deserves to be looked over.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
Ignoring that dicusssion up i came up with an idea to this trait. As Glint has nothing to do with stab i think this trait should improve protection by 7% just like ele “Hardy Conduit” and be moved to master replacing shared empo.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
how about buff Dwarf’s path skill back if we going to nerf everything else.
The problem isn’t Revenant being able to spam stability, or any other profession being able to maintain any boon or condition.
It’s the character not being immune to the boon or condition for 1-3 seconds after it has been removed.
After removing a boon or condition there has to be a brief window before it can be re-applied, or mindless, skill-less spam will override tactics and skillful play.
Remember how control conditions get grayed on champions? Something similar should happen after removal.
Someone has Stability, you use a boon removal and strip it, they get “Stability Removed” as a gray anti-boon for 1 to 2 seconds. And removal becomes meaningful, and stability gets a guaranteed counter, and it won’t matter how much someone uses stability if the enemy knows when to remove it efficiently.
The reason enhanced bulwark is awesome is that you get it from all sources of stability. A dodge roll giving 2 stacks is one thing.
You are getting an extra stab stack that lasts 5s – 9s per from the fellow Guardian (meta build) / Chrono (meta build) / Scrapper (meta build) / Tempest (meta build) is what makes it beyond powerful.
You want to curb the power of the trait, start with other sources of stab. Then work on it’s duration.
The reason enhanced bulwark is awesome is that you get it from all sources of stability. A dodge roll giving 2 stacks is one thing.
You are getting an extra stab stack that lasts 5s – 9s per from the fellow Guardian (meta build) / Chrono (meta build) / Scrapper (meta build) / Tempest (meta build) is what makes it beyond powerful.
You want to curb the power of the trait, start with other sources of stab. Then work on it’s duration.
So, you want to make this trait more worthless, before working on its duration?
I’d rather they just change this trait a bit. It makes no sense in the Herald line since our only source of Stab is in Retribution/Jalis and relying on others for your traits to work at all isn’t great design.
Also, remind me, how do Scrappers share Stab outside of Elixer conversions? I also thought the meta Tempest build used Geomancer’s Training over Rock Solid.