Guild Wars 2

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I’ll be showing it all off plus some extra things on the POI this Friday which will give a much better idea of how everything works.

Just one comment on what we know so far:

Herald is a perfectly good, but quite generic name for the spec. So generally useful in fact you might want to keep it in your pocket for later given there is such a obvious lore-based name for this Elite Spec…

Flameseeker.

I believe the Flameseeker referenced in the name “Flameseeker Prophecies” was Khilbron so to call the elite spec Flameseeker wouldn’t be that lore based (in fact it’d sorta be weird from a lore perspective).

I’m not a huge fan of Herald, but it works.

Kaiden Valor.7163:

I’m not a huge fan of Herald, but it works.

Sure. I’m not adverse to it, it just seemed like there was a profession-ish title so deeply associated with Glint that it might tie things together a little more neatly and save Herald for when some class gets warhorn as their Elite Spec weapon . ((Honk!))

Sooo yeah. Me and the rest of the Guardians were talking and we were wondering if you would wana trade shields with us

Kaiden Valor.7163:

I believe the Flameseeker referenced in the name “Flameseeker Prophecies” was Khilbron so to call the elite spec Flameseeker wouldn’t be that lore based (in fact it’d sorta be weird from a lore perspective).

I’m not a huge fan of Herald, but it works.

That has been the prevailing theory since GW1, but with the last LS season 2 chapter involving the acquisition and use of Divine Fire (which was in GW1) Makes me a tad uncertain if Flameseeker was refering to Khilbron and the Titans.

That being said, there is a small GW1 nod to calling the Revenant’s epic specialization Herald; Herald’s Insignias were an armor upgrade that increase that piece’s armor rating when holding a bundle, which primarily meant when using one of the Item spells of Ritualists, the profession Revenants are thematically inspired by.

So, between all Legends, we have:

• Jalis, Ventari and Glint almost entirely focused on defense and support, which happens to be completely useless in the current GW2.

• Mallyx focused on weak condition damage.

• Shiro focused on damage.

And that’s it.

The Revenant is simply the most useless profession in the GW2 we have right now. No one would take a Glint-specced Revenant to a dungeon run since it would only slow the team down and everyone has more than enough self defense to survive. It’s like expecting people to take 4 berserkers and 1 guy in Nomad gear.

“Ah, but ArenaNet will add content in HoT that will make support actually useful!”

LOL to that. Even assuming it’s true (pro-tip: no, it won’t be), it doesn’t change how everything in the current GW2 works. What would it mean if HoT gives us 2 or 3 maps in which support/tank/support roles are actually useful, while everywhere else – the entire game we have today, which is FAR bigger than HoT – almost everything the Revenant brings is useless?

I don’t think the profession can be saved (which isn’t that much of a loss, considering how few skills it has; it has less skills than every other profession in the game by far). But Glint should have been focused on long range AoE damage as a caster specialization, which would both give the Revenant a ranged option to using hammer as well as one specialization that is actually useful in the current GW2 other than Shiro.

skowcia.8257:

Annnd..the complains on guard forum about shield skills started, even tho we already complain about selfroot. Eles also started comparing it to temepst.. Time for a popcorn.

Zaoda.1653:

By the sounds of it, there still isn’t a ‘permanent’ 25% movement utility though, it sounds more like something that will be temporary via blast finishers or whatever. I hope I’m wrong.

I doubt there will be any, espesially when one signet grants swiftness. Traveler runes still the king, espesially with it +15% boon and +10% condi duration.

To be honest it sounds Just like tempest

Still confused what Facet of Nature does as a mechanic.

Azure.8670:

skowcia.8257:

Annnd..the complains on guard forum about shield skills started, even tho we already complain about selfroot. Eles also started comparing it to temepst.. Time for a popcorn.

Zaoda.1653:

By the sounds of it, there still isn’t a ‘permanent’ 25% movement utility though, it sounds more like something that will be temporary via blast finishers or whatever. I hope I’m wrong.

I doubt there will be any, espesially when one signet grants swiftness. Traveler runes still the king, espesially with it +15% boon and +10% condi duration.

To be honest it sounds Just like tempest

Thats also what came to mind as well. Tempest attunement mechanics. Which doesnt really interest me much unless they have cool skills.

also how does the Revenant heal skill look like?

“Legendary Dragon Stance”…
Race/Species again.

Change Assassin, please. :-(

Knighthonor.4061:

Still confused what Facet of Nature does as a mechanic.

Best I can understand it’s a permanent Facet always there as the F2 skill so long as you have the Glint Specialization equipped. This means even if you have the Glint specialization equipped but are using Malyx and Jalis you will still have access to Facet of Nature.

The active (upkeep) ability increases boon duration (+50%) for all affected targets in the Aura (presumably 5 targets, presumably 600 range). Hopefully the cost will be one of the lower ones.

After beginning the upkeep, the ability now turns into a new active ability, One with Nature. One with Nature, when used, will give all the Facet’s boons at once (for example Facet of Elements gives Swiftness as it’s Aura, Chaos gives Protection, etc this means One with Nature will do Swiftness, Protection, etc). It is unclear if it applies all boons regardless or only those equipped (IE: With glint on) but pretty sure it’s the former otherwise it wouldn’t be much use.

The main profession mechanic of the Herald is auras, using upkeep as a cost for said auras. This is (presumably) to give the feel/role of a Guardian or Elementalist who does their support via boons. Therefore the signature Facet (or “Aura”) is one that increases boon duration. This is actually quite powerful because regardless of who or what you are boon duration is incredibly powerful and the Herald provides +50% boon duration to anyone affected by their auras. Think about every class and the boons they provide and increase it by 50%. 50% more might duration, protection duration, fury duration, stability duration, etc.

Personally pretty excited to see the details on Friday.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Mournilg.4870:

I guess upkeeps will be something like -3/-4, so you can activate 2 and still not be out of energy in 8 seconds.
Well at least i hope you can keep at least one permanently with still a low but positive energy regen

Some are cheap, some are expensive. You’ll be able to keep multiple up at the same time. A lot of the inspiration for the skills came from what you might find a bard style class doing in other games.

I’ll be showing it all off plus some extra things on the POI this Friday which will give a much better idea of how everything works.

Ok sort of like Motifs from Rift’s bard?

So how does the F2 skill help? What does it do?

Also will the Elite Specialization get some kind of energy management in traits?

What does energy cost on shield skills look like?

I assume we will be able to use the Herald spec without equipping the Glint legend if we want to. For example, spec into Herald but use Mallyx / Shiro as legends, and then we’d only have one facet (the F2, Facet of Nature). What does everyone think?

fluidmonolith.3584:

I assume we will be able to use the Herald spec without equipping the Glint legend if we want to. For example, spec into Herald but use Mallyx / Shiro as legends, and then we’d only have one facet (the F2, Facet of Nature). What does everyone think?

It would be dependent on how good the trait line is and how well it works independently of the legend.

Cecilia.5179:

Ladikn.6592:

I’m really interested in Facet of Nature and how it will affect other Legends more then anything else. +50% boon duration on Shiro’s quickness, Ventari’s regens, Jalis’s stability, Malyx’s….being Malyx.

Keep in mind that Shiro’s quickness is also an upkeep, so you’ll either deplete your bar twice as fast, or you’ll only be able to keep one or the other up.

if you can keep both up, there is no difference depleting the bar. shiro’s quickness already costs 10 pips and energy regeneration/degeneration is capped at 5 pips currently

Silhouette.5631:

Sooo yeah. Me and the rest of the Guardians were talking and we were wondering if you would wana trade shields with us

That legitimately made me laugh out loud xD

fluidmonolith.3584:

I assume we will be able to use the Herald spec without equipping the Glint legend if we want to. For example, spec into Herald but use Mallyx / Shiro as legends, and then we’d only have one facet (the F2, Facet of Nature). What does everyone think?

but what good and new come from that.

So far seem pretty weak.

We dont have a lot of self boons as is. So a Boon duration does what for us?

Knighthonor.4061:

fluidmonolith.3584:

I assume we will be able to use the Herald spec without equipping the Glint legend if we want to. For example, spec into Herald but use Mallyx / Shiro as legends, and then we’d only have one facet (the F2, Facet of Nature). What does everyone think?

but what good and new come from that.

So far seem pretty weak.

We dont have a lot of self boons as is. So a Boon duration does what for us?

We have to wait until friday to see the facets, maybe you can run nature and another facet together without or with a very small degeneration (1-2 pips)

Miellyn.6847:

Knighthonor.4061:

fluidmonolith.3584:

I assume we will be able to use the Herald spec without equipping the Glint legend if we want to. For example, spec into Herald but use Mallyx / Shiro as legends, and then we’d only have one facet (the F2, Facet of Nature). What does everyone think?

but what good and new come from that.

So far seem pretty weak.

We dont have a lot of self boons as is. So a Boon duration does what for us?

We have to wait until friday to see the facets, maybe you can run nature and another facet together without or with a very small degeneration (1-2 pips)

thats not the point. it was mentioned that Facet of Nature is all about Boon Durations as our F2 skill.

but what good is that to us? That may be good on a Ele with tons of boons, but on a Revenant? how that going to help us in our current issues (Energy cost, lack of choices, lack of self defense, etc)?

If the Passive of the Facet of Strength is not „knock down enemies around you for 5 seconds every 25 seconds“ I would be very sad. It was my favorite Domain in Guild Wars, ok who am I joking it was awful, but now with the Herald we are on the other side so give us the good old Domain Effect :-D

Knighthonor.4061:

but what good is that to us? That may be good on a Ele with tons of boons, but on a Revenant? how that going to help us in our current issues (Energy cost, lack of choices, lack of self defense, etc)?

Elite specialisations shouldn’t be used to address core problems with a profession, otherwise it becomes mandatory. Just because the Herald has been revealed doesn’t mean that ANet have stopped iterating on the base Revenant, and hopefully those changes will make the Herald more appealing.

process execution.8014:

Knighthonor.4061:

but what good is that to us? That may be good on a Ele with tons of boons, but on a Revenant? how that going to help us in our current issues (Energy cost, lack of choices, lack of self defense, etc)?

Elite specialisations shouldn’t be used to address core problems with a profession, otherwise it becomes mandatory. Just because the Herald has been revealed doesn’t mean that ANet have stopped iterating on the base Revenant, and hopefully those changes will make the Herald more appealing.

Roy already said he kept working on the others legends, mentionning a more “tanky” Jalis already. He said he will explain all of that in a big blog post friday or monday ^^

My Sweet Lily.1952:

The utilities remind me of signets (as speculated to be Glints utilities), just with a Revenant twist. Activate for passive, activate again for ’’active’’ effect and long-ish cooldown. Just that other professions don’t need to activate for passive.

Probably about as close to signets as is possible to be compatible with revenant…

Still, the mechanic makes me think even more about dervishes – I’ve proposed something pretty close to this as a method of getting the dervish feel before.

all of upkeep skills (where is my energy @_#?)
save-me button with huge penalties (in wvw blob…. it changes kill me faster button)
sounds like weak stance I ever heard

Silhouette.5631:

Sooo yeah. Me and the rest of the Guardians were talking and we were wondering if you would wana trade shields with us

I’ll trade you the shield for your GS. You can have double shields!

draxynnic.3719:

My Sweet Lily.1952:

The utilities remind me of signets (as speculated to be Glints utilities), just with a Revenant twist. Activate for passive, activate again for ’’active’’ effect and long-ish cooldown. Just that other professions don’t need to activate for passive.

Probably about as close to signets as is possible to be compatible with revenant…

Still, the mechanic makes me think even more about dervishes – I’ve proposed something pretty close to this as a method of getting the dervish feel before.

See, and you thought they couldn’t make signet type skills work with Revenants.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

A lot of the inspiration for the skills came from what you might find a bard style class doing in other games.

I wish we got Focus instead of Shield so I can sport The Minstrel. :P

By the sounds of it, the shield is going to be very nice tho!

Cecilia.5179:

Ladikn.6592:

I’m really interested in Facet of Nature and how it will affect other Legends more then anything else. +50% boon duration on Shiro’s quickness, Ventari’s regens, Jalis’s stability, Malyx’s….being Malyx.

Keep in mind that Shiro’s quickness is also an upkeep, so you’ll either deplete your bar twice as fast, or you’ll only be able to keep one or the other up.

By the sounds of the Herald in actual gameplay we’re going to be running out of energy real quick, fast, and yeah…

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Mournilg.4870:

I guess upkeeps will be something like -3/-4, so you can activate 2 and still not be out of energy in 8 seconds.
Well at least i hope you can keep at least one permanently with still a low but positive energy regen

Some are cheap, some are expensive. You’ll be able to keep multiple up at the same time. A lot of the inspiration for the skills came from what you might find a bard style class doing in other games.

I’ll be showing it all off plus some extra things on the POI this Friday which will give a much better idea of how everything works.

Ok. I want to see how you’re going to make this work. Five skills that are all upkeep skills. With no way to gain energy other than passively, it means that even if you were able to maintain multiple signets at the same time, this will effectively ruin your ability to use weapon skills.

Please explain why weapons have energy cost, again. When you were designing this class, did nobody say, not once, “hey Roy, you know if you use the Jalis taunt, elite, Shiro elite, etc, right after switching to the legend, you can do nothing but autoattack for several seconds?”

Tell me, what other class has to sacrifice every single ability they have for multiple seconds just to use a single utility? How does that work? Where in your design process did you think this was a good idea?

And what about condition clear? Is this yet another legend that lacks it? I didn’t read anything about traits, so I’m hoping that all the condi clear we get hasn’t already been shown to us. If you haven’t noticed, conditions are dominating the game right now, and Revenant is severely lacking in condition clears that aren’t tied to a single legend.

At least if we had a shout legend we could use Trooper/Soldier runes.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Mournilg.4870:

I guess upkeeps will be something like -3/-4, so you can activate 2 and still not be out of energy in 8 seconds.
Well at least i hope you can keep at least one permanently with still a low but positive energy regen

Some are cheap, some are expensive. You’ll be able to keep multiple up at the same time. A lot of the inspiration for the skills came from what you might find a bard style class doing in other games.

I’ll be showing it all off plus some extra things on the POI this Friday which will give a much better idea of how everything works.

Ok. I want to see how you’re going to make this work. Five skills that are all upkeep skills. With no way to gain energy other than passively, it means that even if you were able to maintain multiple signets at the same time, this will effectively ruin your ability to use weapon skills.

Please explain why weapons have energy cost, again. When you were designing this class, did nobody say, not once, “hey Roy, you know if you use the Jalis taunt, elite, Shiro elite, etc, right after switching to the legend, you can do nothing but autoattack for several seconds?”

Tell me, what other class has to sacrifice every single ability they have for multiple seconds just to use a single utility? How does that work? Where in your design process did you think this was a good idea?

And what about condition clear? Is this yet another legend that lacks it? I didn’t read anything about traits, so I’m hoping that all the condi clear we get hasn’t already been shown to us. If you haven’t noticed, conditions are dominating the game right now, and Revenant is severely lacking in condition clears that aren’t tied to a single legend.

At least if we had a shout legend we could use Trooper/Soldier runes.

Look man I’ve been saying this for like the last week ,but there are still a bunch of people in these forums that have zero sense and keep fighting against when its the most logical choice. Just remove energy cost of weapon skills and the class instantly gets 100% better.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Please explain why weapons have energy cost, again. When you were designing this class, did nobody say, not once, “hey Roy, you know if you use the Jalis taunt, elite, Shiro elite, etc, right after switching to the legend, you can do nothing but autoattack for several seconds?”

Y’know, maybe instead of blaming others for their mistakes they said “Hey, it might not be the best idea to use Jade Winds right when I switch to Shiro because then I’ll have no energy left!”

If I’m playing thief and I heartseeker 4 times in a row and then don’t have the initiative to stealth I’m not blaming the mechanic. That’s all on me.

Likewise, if I’m thoughtlessly burning all my weapon skills on cooldown or toggling upkeeps for several seconds and I then find my options limited, that’s on me.

It’s supposed to make you think, and add a layer of strategy where you’re forced to weigh the cost and benefit of each action. That’s the point.

Griffith.7238:

Look man I’ve been saying this for like the last week ,but there are still a bunch of people in these forums that have zero sense and keep fighting against when its the most logical choice. Just remove energy cost of weapon skills and the class instantly gets 100% better.

Seems reasonable, honestly. It isn’t like the weapon abilities don’t have CDs already. and the ones with shorter 2-3s cool downs could be tweaked slightly if necessary. Or they could reduce anything under 10 to zero, 10-14 to 5, and 15+ to 10 (if they wanted to keep a cost on the bigger attacks).

Regardless, if the weapon skills are going to have an energy cost, they should be BIG hitters. On any other class, using a weapon skill doesn’t potentially lock out using a utility or an elite. That’s fine, and a neat idea, IF that weapon skill is sufficiently rewarding to use.

Darn it, I have to take my cat to the vet smack dab in the middle of the PoI today. What’s the easiest way to find the recording after the show? I know that Twitch has a replay of recent shows but have not figured out how to locate those, and even a day later my googling never turns up the YouTube; I have to have someone else give me the link.

Donari.5237:

Darn it, I have to take my cat to the vet smack dab in the middle of the PoI today. What’s the easiest way to find the recording after the show? I know that Twitch has a replay of recent shows but have not figured out how to locate those, and even a day later my googling never turns up the YouTube; I have to have someone else give me the link.

usually dulfy is the first to bring a recording out to youtube as well as a compilation of all the skills and traits to his website.

Thanks, I’ll check Dulfy once I’m back from the vet.

Temihal.8651:

I’m a little concerned about the heal skill (usually passive heal effect entail weaker active).

*cough*warrior’s healing signet*cough*

Bonus before a poi

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/632236680926359552

Glint voice. Hope she talks a bit more..

I like that voice. Gives the right vibe of old and wise, unlike the original one which someone on the forums previously said sounds like an “old hag”.

I pretty much loved everything in the video except for Shield 5.

Being rooted is worthless and actually will leave you more vulnerable instead of defensive.

Kodiak.3281:

I pretty much loved everything in the video except for Shield 5.

Being rooted is worthless and actually will leave you more vulnerable instead of defensive.

I wanted to use shield, but I probably won’t because not only does it stop you from moving, it prevents capture. Might as well just use Sword offhand for the block at that point and hold a point more easily… Really sad, because I want to love shield so much but its just not very potent and works against you. Made for bunkering, but can’t hold a point…

Yea I was really excited for that shield GM trait for the extra boon duration but honestly rooting yourself at 25% is just suicide in any kind of competitive environment. As Roy mentioned with the Super Speed adept this kind of class is designed to keep up with a group, and when you gotta be on the move like that stopping for 4 seconds while the party moves on just isn’t gonna work out.

Likely continue to use the Staff for the heal, condi cleanse, mobility and block as the off weapon.

Well..a quick look about herald as awhole;

• Shield;

1.Envoy – Well, not much to say here. It seems good but it could do damage as well.

2.Hibernation – Prevents capture points? Selfroot? What the f? 4 pulses with 975 healing as well? Man this ability sux so bad.. Please get rid of selfroot and point capture.

• Glint;

1.One with nature -. Useful for all builds. Its really good skill.

2. Light – Thats what i feared the most.. defiant stance 2.0. Not sure how it will work out, we have 2 heaing abilities at least… Question to Roy here.. will it show healing numbers on enemy screen like defiant stance?

3. Darkness – Dis is suuu gut yooo. It a double edge sword, can be used as defensive and dfensive ability. More of that stuff plz

4. Elements – dat burning..dat chill…dat weakness

5. Strenght – i found this one to be lackluster personally. Upkeep is much better. Could it get a burst of 20 stacks might on activate part as well?

6. Upkeep is powerful. But the active part..its so weak. It has huge cd, huge telegraph and hits like a wet noodle. The launch effect seems also to be underpwoered compared to jade winds. I think this ability could use a reduction to 30cd with it damage being buffed by 200% so we can get much needed burst ability.

• Traits;

Minor;

They are all cool, espesially boon duration. It will have some nice synergy with my traveler runes if i wont drop them naturally..

Adept;

1. Swift gale – somehow i found it weak, what do i need superspeed for? Would be much getting to gain retal/protection.

2. Radiant revival – seems to be a good support trait..but that cd..

3. Hardening – 40 toughness? Even if i fire off all 6 upkeep skills at once it will be just 240 toughness.. this trait is really weak. If it was 100 toughness/upkeep then we can talk.

Overall adept traits are bad.

Master;

1.Bolster – i know what i will be running on every freaking build out here (except condi one). Howered doesnt that go against Glint healing ability? Reduced damage will cause us to gain less hp..

2. Shared – might bot, that icd is unnecesary tho

3. Harmonize – situation but a good support skill for wvw.

GM;

1. Elder force – meh. Copypaste from guard

2. Soothing – a selfroot i have no control over? And what if i rbeak it by accident by moving? Its terrible. Its like asking for a suicide.

3. Enhancent bulwalk – Must have……that synegy with stability on dodge and upcoming nerfed jalis road.. No! Theres no way to not pick up this one.

skowcia.8257:

Well..a quick look about herald as awhole;

• Shield;

1.Envoy – Well, not much to say here. It seems good but it could do damage as well.

2.Hibernation – Prevents capture points? Selfroot? What the f? 4 pulses with 975 healing as well? Man this ability sux so bad.. Please get rid of selfroot and point capture.

• Glint;

1.One with nature -. Useful for all builds. Its really good skill.

2. Light – Thats what i feared the most.. defiant stance 2.0. Not sure how it will work out, we have 2 heaing abilities at least… Question to Roy here.. will it show healing numbers on enemy screen like defiant stance?

3. Darkness – Dis is suuu gut yooo. It a double edge sword, can be used as defensive and dfensive ability. More of that stuff plz

4. Elements – dat burning..dat chill…dat weakness

5. Strenght – i found this one to be lackluster personally. Upkeep is much better. Could it get a burst of 20 stacks might on activate part as well?

6. Upkeep is powerful. But the active part..its so weak. It has huge cd, huge telegraph and hits like a wet noodle. The launch effect seems also to be underpwoered compared to jade winds. I think this ability could use a reduction to 30cd with it damage being buffed by 200% so we can get much needed burst ability.

• Traits;

Minor;

They are all cool, espesially boon duration. It will have some nice synergy with my traveler runes if i wont drop them naturally..

Adept;

1. Swift gale – somehow i found it weak, what do i need superspeed for? Would be much getting to gain retal/protection.

2. Radiant revival – seems to be a good support trait..but that cd..

3. Hardening – 40 toughness? Even if i fire off all 6 upkeep skills at once it will be just 240 toughness.. this trait is really weak. If it was 100 toughness/upkeep then we can talk.

Overall adept traits are bad.

Master;

1.Bolster – i know what i will be running on every freaking build out here (except condi one). Howered doesnt that go against Glint healing ability? Reduced damage will cause us to gain less hp..

2. Shared – might bot, that icd is unnecesary tho

3. Harmonize – situation but a good support skill for wvw.

GM;

1. Elder force – meh. Copypaste from guard

2. Soothing – a selfroot i have no control over? And what if i rbeak it by accident by moving? Its terrible. Its like asking for a suicide.

3. Enhancent bulwalk – Must have……that synegy with stability on dodge and upcoming nerfed jalis road.. No! Theres no way to not pick up this one.

you get 40 Toughness for every MINUS Pip you have, not for every Upkeep skill. Since the maximum negative Energy Regen is -10 the maximum Toughness you can get from this Trait is 400

Recursivision.2367:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Please explain why weapons have energy cost, again. When you were designing this class, did nobody say, not once, “hey Roy, you know if you use the Jalis taunt, elite, Shiro elite, etc, right after switching to the legend, you can do nothing but autoattack for several seconds?”

Y’know, maybe instead of blaming others for their mistakes they said “Hey, it might not be the best idea to use Jade Winds right when I switch to Shiro because then I’ll have no energy left!”

If I’m playing thief and I heartseeker 4 times in a row and then don’t have the initiative to stealth I’m not blaming the mechanic. That’s all on me.

Likewise, if I’m thoughtlessly burning all my weapon skills on cooldown or toggling upkeeps for several seconds and I then find my options limited, that’s on me.

It’s supposed to make you think, and add a layer of strategy where you’re forced to weigh the cost and benefit of each action. That’s the point.

I don’t disagree with what you said about balancing energy use, but you’re missing the point. Comparing it to Thief is unfair, because Thief utility skills don’t burn Initiative. If all Thief skills, weapon or otherwise, burned Initiative, it would be a valid comparison. Thief weapon skills also have no cooldowns. Initiative is their cooldown. In the case of Revenant, oftentimes you’re facing both cooldown and energy consumption across all skills — not just weapons or utilities. You can think of Thief this way: weapons consume Initiative. Utilities consume time. On the flipside, you can think of Revenant this way: weapons consume everything. Utilities consume everything. Heals, utilities, elites. All of them.

If you want to eat my energy to burn weapon skills, fine. If you want to eat my energy to burn utility skills, fine. If you want to do both, you can’t make skills that completely shut the entirety of the class down, weapons and all.

Is there a single thief skill that prevents every other skill on the bar from being used? And I don’t mean weapons. I mean everything. Nope. Aside from channels, which is completely different, there is not.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Recursivision.2367:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Please explain why weapons have energy cost, again. When you were designing this class, did nobody say, not once, “hey Roy, you know if you use the Jalis taunt, elite, Shiro elite, etc, right after switching to the legend, you can do nothing but autoattack for several seconds?”

Y’know, maybe instead of blaming others for their mistakes they said “Hey, it might not be the best idea to use Jade Winds right when I switch to Shiro because then I’ll have no energy left!”

If I’m playing thief and I heartseeker 4 times in a row and then don’t have the initiative to stealth I’m not blaming the mechanic. That’s all on me.

Likewise, if I’m thoughtlessly burning all my weapon skills on cooldown or toggling upkeeps for several seconds and I then find my options limited, that’s on me.

It’s supposed to make you think, and add a layer of strategy where you’re forced to weigh the cost and benefit of each action. That’s the point.

I don’t disagree with what you said about balancing energy use, but you’re missing the point. Comparing it to Thief is unfair, because Thief utility skills don’t burn Initiative. If all Thief skills, weapon or otherwise, burned Initiative, it would be a valid comparison. Thief weapon skills also have no cooldowns. Initiative is their cooldown. In the case of Revenant, oftentimes you’re facing both cooldown and energy consumption across all skills — not just weapons or utilities. You can think of Thief this way: weapons consume Initiative. Utilities consume time. On the flipside, you can think of Revenant this way: weapons consume everything. Utilities consume everything. Heals, utilities, elites. All of them.

If you want to eat my energy to burn weapon skills, fine. If you want to eat my energy to burn utility skills, fine. If you want to do both, you can’t make skills that completely shut the entirety of the class down, weapons and all.

Is there a single thief skill that prevents every other skill on the bar from being used? And I don’t mean weapons. I mean everything. Nope. Aside from channels, which is completely different, there is not.

Yeah, it’s punishing. It has a high skill cap.

That’s not a problem, that’s just a fact of the class.

Recursivision.2367:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Recursivision.2367:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Please explain why weapons have energy cost, again. When you were designing this class, did nobody say, not once, “hey Roy, you know if you use the Jalis taunt, elite, Shiro elite, etc, right after switching to the legend, you can do nothing but autoattack for several seconds?”

Y’know, maybe instead of blaming others for their mistakes they said “Hey, it might not be the best idea to use Jade Winds right when I switch to Shiro because then I’ll have no energy left!”

If I’m playing thief and I heartseeker 4 times in a row and then don’t have the initiative to stealth I’m not blaming the mechanic. That’s all on me.

Likewise, if I’m thoughtlessly burning all my weapon skills on cooldown or toggling upkeeps for several seconds and I then find my options limited, that’s on me.

It’s supposed to make you think, and add a layer of strategy where you’re forced to weigh the cost and benefit of each action. That’s the point.

I don’t disagree with what you said about balancing energy use, but you’re missing the point. Comparing it to Thief is unfair, because Thief utility skills don’t burn Initiative. If all Thief skills, weapon or otherwise, burned Initiative, it would be a valid comparison. Thief weapon skills also have no cooldowns. Initiative is their cooldown. In the case of Revenant, oftentimes you’re facing both cooldown and energy consumption across all skills — not just weapons or utilities. You can think of Thief this way: weapons consume Initiative. Utilities consume time. On the flipside, you can think of Revenant this way: weapons consume everything. Utilities consume everything. Heals, utilities, elites. All of them.

If you want to eat my energy to burn weapon skills, fine. If you want to eat my energy to burn utility skills, fine. If you want to do both, you can’t make skills that completely shut the entirety of the class down, weapons and all.

Is there a single thief skill that prevents every other skill on the bar from being used? And I don’t mean weapons. I mean everything. Nope. Aside from channels, which is completely different, there is not.

Yeah, it’s punishing. It has a high skill cap.

That’s not a problem, that’s just a fact of the class.

High skill cap? Garbage. It’s an analysis of the class as objectively as possible when compared to others. There is no “skill” involved in decimating every class ability when using another. Again, this is objective feedback in an attempt to improve the class so that it can stay competitive with others. If you have no desire to improve it, then you are doing nothing to help.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

If you want to eat my energy to burn weapon skills, fine. If you want to eat my energy to burn utility skills, fine. If you want to do both, you can’t make skills that completely shut the entirety of the class down, weapons and all.

That’s not objective. Why can’t you? If you get in a situation where you have no energy, and legend swap isn’t up, you’ve put yourself there by using too much energy. There’s no objective reason that that doesn’t work as a mechanic. Do you really think it’s impossible to balance the class otherwise?

Shrubsy.9720:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

If you want to eat my energy to burn weapon skills, fine. If you want to eat my energy to burn utility skills, fine. If you want to do both, you can’t make skills that completely shut the entirety of the class down, weapons and all.

That’s not objective. Why can’t you? If you get in a situation where you have no energy, and legend swap isn’t up, you’ve put yourself there by using too much energy. There’s no objective reason that that doesn’t work as a mechanic. Do you really think it’s impossible to balance the class otherwise?

I have yet to hear any real reason why people think weapon skills need both a cooldown and energy cost, or why they’re okay with the current energy cost. And I absolutely do think that it’s possible to balance the class without tying energy to everything. Why do you think it isn’t?

And, yes, it is entirely too easy to put yourself in a position where you can do nothing but autoattack. I’m merely advocating to make it less so. Currently, to avoid putting yourself in a position where you can do nothing but autoattack (i.e. to conserve energy), you need to… do nothing but autoattack. Because everything uses energy. Do you want to improve the class, or not?

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

I have yet to hear any real reason why people think weapon skills need both a cooldown and energy cost, or why they’re okay with the current energy cost. And I absolutely do think that it’s possible to balance the class without tying energy to everything. Why do you think it isn’t?

And, yes, it is entirely too easy to put yourself in a position where you can do nothing but autoattack. I’m merely advocating to make it less so. Currently, to avoid putting yourself in a position where you can do nothing but autoattack (i.e. to conserve energy), you need to… do nothing but autoattack. Because everything uses energy. Do you want to improve the class, or not?

First, the burden is on you to prove that it needs to be changed (i.e., the class can’t be balanced as it is).

And that was my question, you turned it around: why can’t revenant be balanced with energy on weapon skills? There’s no reason to change it if this is possible.

And your using hyperbole. Really? If I do anything other than auto attack I’m going to end up with 0 energy?

Sure, you’re changes would make the class stronger. In fact, utility energy use would have to be retuned across the board. And it would also dumb the class down.

Or, you know, we could just balance damage and energy numbers as it is now.

Recursivision.2367:

And your using hyperbole. Really? If I do anything other than auto attack I’m going to end up with 0 energy?

Since everything uses energy, yes!

Recursivision.2367:

Sure, you’re changes would make the class stronger. In fact, utility energy use would have to be retuned across the board. And it would also dumb the class down.

Or, you know, we could just balance damage and energy numbers as it is now.

See, I’m okay with that. I’m don’t think Rev is in a good enough place to compete in PvP, which to me is a deciding factor. If energy costs were retuned so that you didn’t end up at zero after just a few skills, that would be fine. Or, since the class is so highly focused on energy management, remove the cooldowns.

All I want is for design to take a closer look at how quickly energy dissipates. For example, on Jalis, if you use the taunt utility just once, your energy is gone. You quite literally cannot do anything but autoattack until it regenerates.

I would also be okay with traits that could help with energy generation. Passive generation is boring. Give us something more to play with, make it even more complex.