Guild Wars 2

Without it I feel like they’d drop back to nothing.

I agree. It seems like Herald was the only elite spec designed to be a part of the core profession. The first 8 professions are fine without their ES, but the Revenant to me seems like it was obviously designed from the start to use Herald.

Herald is not an addition but a core part of the profession, and a very important one at that.

Hammerguard.9834:

Without it I feel like they’d drop back to nothing.

I agree. without Herald, Rev is paper…. its nothingness…

its 0-1=-1

Adamantium.3682:

I agree. It seems like Herald was the only elite spec designed to be a part of the core profession. The first 8 professions are fine without their ES, but the Revenant to me seems like it was obviously designed from the start to use Herald.

Herald is not an addition but a core part of the profession, and a very important one at that.

Yeah ok lol.

No mesmer worth bringing to a group WOULD EVER NOT BRING CHRONOMANCER.

Alacrity is a 66% recharge rate reduction for the entire group, on ttop of double time warp, so I don’t know what you’re smoking.

Similarly, any necro who doesn’t want to do garbage DPS in PvE will spec reaper. It’s not “optional”.

You people, I swear. Must be the people mashing 1 on dynamic events or WvW zergs.

Zenith.7301:

Adamantium.3682:

I agree. It seems like Herald was the only elite spec designed to be a part of the core profession. The first 8 professions are fine without their ES, but the Revenant to me seems like it was obviously designed from the start to use Herald.

Herald is not an addition but a core part of the profession, and a very important one at that.

Yeah ok lol.

No mesmer worth bringing to a group WOULD EVER NOT BRING CHRONOMANCER.

Alacrity is a 66% recharge rate reduction for the entire group, on ttop of double time warp, so I don’t know what you’re smoking.

Similarly, any necro who doesn’t want to do garbage DPS in PvE will spec reaper. It’s not “optional”.

You people, I swear. Must be the people mashing 1 on dynamic events or WvW zergs.

A good elite spec that you want to use is not the same as what the Herald is described as in this thread. Before you decide you’re so much better than the rest of us, maybe you should read further than the first few words next time.

Adamantium.3682:

Zenith.7301:

Adamantium.3682:

I agree. It seems like Herald was the only elite spec designed to be a part of the core profession. The first 8 professions are fine without their ES, but the Revenant to me seems like it was obviously designed from the start to use Herald.

Herald is not an addition but a core part of the profession, and a very important one at that.

Yeah ok lol.

No mesmer worth bringing to a group WOULD EVER NOT BRING CHRONOMANCER.

Alacrity is a 66% recharge rate reduction for the entire group, on ttop of double time warp, so I don’t know what you’re smoking.

Similarly, any necro who doesn’t want to do garbage DPS in PvE will spec reaper. It’s not “optional”.

You people, I swear. Must be the people mashing 1 on dynamic events or WvW zergs.

A good elite spec that you want to use is not the same as what the Herald is described as in this thread. Before you decide you’re so much better than the rest of us, maybe you should read further than the first few words next time.

There’s no “want”. You either use chrono or you get the kick from my group. A non-chrono mesmer is a kitten mesmer. A non-reaper necro is a kitten necro.

What you describe as “want” applies just as much to the herald. People played the last BWE’s without herald just fine.

Zenith.7301:

Adamantium.3682:

Zenith.7301:

Adamantium.3682:

I agree. It seems like Herald was the only elite spec designed to be a part of the core profession. The first 8 professions are fine without their ES, but the Revenant to me seems like it was obviously designed from the start to use Herald.

Herald is not an addition but a core part of the profession, and a very important one at that.

Yeah ok lol.

No mesmer worth bringing to a group WOULD EVER NOT BRING CHRONOMANCER.

Alacrity is a 66% recharge rate reduction for the entire group, on ttop of double time warp, so I don’t know what you’re smoking.

Similarly, any necro who doesn’t want to do garbage DPS in PvE will spec reaper. It’s not “optional”.

You people, I swear. Must be the people mashing 1 on dynamic events or WvW zergs.

A good elite spec that you want to use is not the same as what the Herald is described as in this thread. Before you decide you’re so much better than the rest of us, maybe you should read further than the first few words next time.

There’s no “want”. You either use chrono or you get the kick from my group. A non-chrono mesmer is a kitten mesmer. A non-reaper necro is a kitten necro.

What you describe as “want” applies just as much to the herald. People played the last BWE’s without herald just fine.

You don’t seem to understand the point. It’s more about the feel of the profession not the power. Herald just seems to hold everything together as if it was designed to be a core spec not just some new trait line that is for the moment OP. Design not numbers.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Zenith.7301:

Adamantium.3682:

Zenith.7301:

Adamantium.3682:

I agree. It seems like Herald was the only elite spec designed to be a part of the core profession. The first 8 professions are fine without their ES, but the Revenant to me seems like it was obviously designed from the start to use Herald.

Herald is not an addition but a core part of the profession, and a very important one at that.

Yeah ok lol.

No mesmer worth bringing to a group WOULD EVER NOT BRING CHRONOMANCER.

Alacrity is a 66% recharge rate reduction for the entire group, on ttop of double time warp, so I don’t know what you’re smoking.

Similarly, any necro who doesn’t want to do garbage DPS in PvE will spec reaper. It’s not “optional”.

You people, I swear. Must be the people mashing 1 on dynamic events or WvW zergs.

A good elite spec that you want to use is not the same as what the Herald is described as in this thread. Before you decide you’re so much better than the rest of us, maybe you should read further than the first few words next time.

There’s no “want”. You either use chrono or you get the kick from my group. A non-chrono mesmer is a kitten mesmer. A non-reaper necro is a kitten necro.

What you describe as “want” applies just as much to the herald. People played the last BWE’s without herald just fine.

You don’t seem to understand the point. It’s more about the feel of the profession not the power. Herald just seems to hold everything together as if it was designed to be a core spec not just some new trait line that is for the moment OP. Design not numbers.

this is because its the Elite Specialization, its built to be the Core of Every proffession.

think of it like this, for a SPVP Player, this expansion holds litterally NOTHING but simply those Elite specializations, so how do u Encourage them to invest in this Expansion for 1 trait line to their main proffession..

if u think about, $50 is ALOT to spend just for a traitline, Therefore it Realistically HAS to hold the proffession together, otherwise SPVPers would simply not buy it, if it was Simply just a meta thing and It would phase out this would also say Dont buy it, A Few months of pain and It’ll end terribly..

so the only Way to really do it is Rebalance proffessions to REQUIRE that elite to Be any good, this Making us invest in the expansion, as great as Anet is and how free they want to make the game end of the day they have to make profits somewhere Something has to make u invest and the Elites will become this for Most PvP Players out there.

Mesmers are having Everything nerfed to the point chronomancer is What Makes them strong… which will in time cause the exact same effect as the current, what you have to remember is the balancing patch has HAPPENED for the rev they are balanced with the Elite because they are Being introduced at the same time, other proffessions will have to Wait for the actual expansion to see how the balancing patch will effect you (and i promise, the revs position will be every proffessions position).. they want to make u buy into the game… Not sit in F2P cause it gives u the same experience.

Herald to Revenant does seem to be like the Arcana of Elementalists. Devastation/Invocation/Retribution builds might do ok - that was the first selection I tried when I started trying out the class, with Sword/Axe + Hammer. (I’ve only tried DPS builds so far but it definitely seems like it has other viable builds including support and condi). I’ve gotten better with the class mechanic and at reacting to situations quickly since then, but I did change to a new build using Herald, which does seem like the must-have trait line for anything except perhaps a condition build. It doesn’t look crazy strong, but when you realise the Revenant’s style is self-healing, the protection, heal skill are crucial to surviving in a team fight, and and the Herald’s 2nd and 3rd utility skills are the only ones which provide decent damage output. So Herald is for damage dealing, supporting, and tanking. That certainly makes it seem worthy of the title "elite," but a) not so worthy of being called a "specialisation," and b) at the same time how can something the class has to rely on so heavily not be part of the core? It’s a fair question, and is cause for concern when the next set of elite specialisations are released. If this elite specialisation is so crucial, and a must-have, just how different can the next one be? Will Herald be nerfed a couple of months before the next one is released so everyone will drop Herald and use the new, much like how they approached Acrobatics for the Thief?

Drayos.8759:

this is because its the Elite Specialization, its built to be the Core of Every proffession.

I feel like a lot of your post is based off of this incorrect assumption. Anet has said that elite specs are supposed to offer another way to play a profession, changing the way they normally work. The elite specs are not supposed to be “the only right option”, and I don’t really think they are except for Herald.

Drayos, you’re so wrong it’s disgusting.

“Therefore it Realistically HAS to hold the proffession together”

Are you kidding? Elite specializations are suppose to be a new way of playing the class not some sort of glue that makes the core profession suddenly complete. The core Revenant specializations are suppose to be as it always has been for the first 8 professions, fun and whole.

I don’t know what the rest of you guys have been doing but I’ve been testing out a variety of non-Herald builds and they work fine. I like my Herald build better but non-Herald builds are still at least viable.

Demented Yak.6105:

I don’t know what the rest of you guys have been doing but I’ve been testing out a variety of non-Herald builds and they work fine. I like my Herald build better but non-Herald builds are still at least viable.

I agree. Also it’s not really so much different from mesmer/chronomancer and probably thief/daredevil. Some elite specs are a straight upgrade of the base class.

Adamantium.3682:

Drayos.8759:

this is because its the Elite Specialization, its built to be the Core of Every proffession.

I feel like a lot of your post is based off of this incorrect assumption. Anet has said that elite specs are supposed to offer another way to play a profession, changing the way they normally work. The elite specs are not supposed to be “the only right option”, and I don’t really think they are except for Herald.

Anet are not going to ever post “these new elites will have dramatic effects on ur proffession” why because anything someone can Press to be P2W which making elites stronger then base line traits Would achieve as u effectively pay to have something stronger that a f2p cannot achieve.

This is a major issue, in no game no matter how p2w it is Considered WILL Never admit this, now i know GW2 isnt p2w at all that isnt my point, its the point that anything that can cause a uproar will cause a uproar the community ALREADY Has a few individuals arguing its Already p2w with this upcoming expansion.

The fact is, there is a Meta in the game Best to Worst, the fact is in this game the idea of a Different playstyle beingoffered at the same strength as other normal builds of today is crazy to beleive, the Meta will always decide the strengths..

The Mesmer nerfs coming out and are upcoming have proven to be nerfing EVERY Trait line but the chronomancer, Which will put the Chronomancer ahead when HoT Eventually comes through, which would place the Chronomancer In every tree, they do this because us as a paying player would go apekitten if we paid out for a Elite which phases out fast… therefore it HAS To be stronger then the choices so we can play it and not be ripped away from it.

The fact is the Revenant is Already balanced for HoT, every other proffession Awaits its Nerfs on non-elite traitlines as Anet has already stated, The Nerfs havnt happened so how can u assume they wont be weaker then the elite speccs before u’ve seen the actual balancing patch which will nerf every single one of them?… maybe not all but the balancing will happen… they cant release a Strong build.. with a STRONGER trait to go in it.. the power creep would be ridiculous, it’ll ALL be brought down to Work WITH the elite… placing the Elite at a Required status.

Well at first elite specs was intended to be something new for the class. Something you can change, play with it or not. But, looks carefully, Karl Mc cain, the dev who made dragonhunter, tempest and daredevil, is the one who has made something new for classes. Dragonhunter is not a must have and you can play without it, just play with it for becomming range, the tempest is support spec, just play with it when you need it. But all those two was the least loved specs of all. After seeing people like robert gee’s specs, who are an upgrade of an incomming classe, he made daredevil, thief V2.0 and people like it. So don’t expect now to have an elite spec that isn’t a must have in place of one core talent. Coz like tempest and dragonhunter was not liked and upgraded classes are loved incomming specs are going to be V2.0 classes too. So now elite spec is just a v 2.0 class, thing i find a little poor. It’s for them an argument for sold heart of thorns coz they enhance classes and are must have but this can be a problem too coz, when you look, they are going to be more melee classes now (engineer spec is melee too, necromancer too and just dragonhunter for range but it’s not a must have) so this is going to change the core of pvp game too, putting the light on melee classes. So it’s a little poor but you’re just going to have v2.0 classes now.

well as a condi herland isnt really great

Zenith.7301:

No mesmer worth bringing to a group WOULD EVER NOT BRING CHRONOMANCER.

Alacrity is a 66% recharge rate reduction for the entire group

not quite, alacrity will only apply to the 1s or 2 seconds it is on you out of the total recharge

The group will only get 1.3 seconds of a long cd from standing in a traited well. Assuming the mesmer runs wells and traits them.

The rest of Alacrity are from the phantasm from a “shield mesmer” blocking an attack, which has a large wind up and sacrifices a massive amount of mesmer damage for a 0.7 second cooldown per phantasm, people have rightly argued it is many many times better to just bring another elementalist.

shatter traited alacrity, only applies to the mesmer, assuming the mesmer has the opportunity and the clone creation to run shatters. it is possible to acheive 100% alacrity on a shatter mesmer, but this means sacrificing everything else (and is actually difficult to manage, losing all utilities and remember shatters=phantasm die, one of which is giving you alacrity!, and auto attack damage). again, this only applies to the mesmer anyway. Mesmers want this trait removed

Overall, the recharge given to the group will be around 1%-5% depending on the number of wells. And this might not necessarily affect a skills rotation at all (0% dps), as unlike quickness your cast times are unaffected.

Most HoT changes have been designed around PvP

I’ve been finding that I’m actually preferring revenant without herald. S/S Staff Shiro/Jalis Desolation/Retribution/Invocation feels better to me than herald does, and I find I do more damage. for group support, Herald is clearly better, but that’s the point – it’s a different role.

So what? just take herald. You know build diversity is long gone since they introduced specialization. Idk, as long as rev is strong or has good build for every game mode, I’m OK with it.

But then what happens when the next wave of elite specs are released? We can’t take both Herald and the new one, then we miss (what feels like) a core part of the class. But I also agree with Gray, I think Jalis is a great legend too and makes the revenant feel more tanky.

caerulean.4837:

But then what happens when the next wave of elite specs are released? We can’t take both Herald and the new one, then we miss (what feels like) a core part of the class. But I also agree with Gray, I think Jalis is a great legend too and makes the revenant feel more tanky.

My biggest concern as well. I do love glint, but last beta the class still wasn’t that great unless going condition. Glint makes the class just feel complete. Any future elite specizalation will hurt the class overall I think

I only speak from a PvE perspective, but I don’t fully agree.

Currently, PvE is currently judged by the dungeon DPS standard. Once the new Fractals and the raids come out, the speedrunning meta will most likely fall out of favor. As mentioned some of the new Fractal bosses will have different stat allocation and mechanics, so burning a boss through direct and condition damage might not be an effective strategy.

Raiding is almost always an entirely different beast. Even if Zerker and Sinister remain the kings for clearing bosses quickly, they may begin to show their risk. Without stat boosts from traitlines, we might have to add in some Valk, Knight, or even Soldier armor in case there are mechanics where constant raid damage is a thing and having a dedicated healer isn’t always an option.

Now, the strength of the Herald in PvE is based around the ease of access to boon support and the damage buffs given. First of all, the boon support is not unique to Herald. In all honesty, in a group setting, nothing the Herald does is unique. No profession or build on their own could so easily pump out a large amount of boons. However, the key part to that is: “on their own.” When raiding happens, it may come to pass that Herald is just taken for the damage buff. In a smaller dungeon group, Glint is going to be good for most areas, but for a 10 man group if they allow for boons to be shared to 10 people in those environments….she falls by the wayside a bit. That just leaves a damage boost….which can easily be added to any elite spec.

In short, for PvE the Herald and Glint are not as powerful in larger groups. They could be in smaller groups for sure. Overall, I do agree that the Revenant was designed around having Glint from the very start. Honestly, that’s actually a better design than being without it. Anet is trying to make everything as balanced as possible and relies heavily on metrics. It’s easier for them to balance the older professions and the elite specs as there are far less variables to work with. Over time, I would think more power(, utility, and other things) are added to the base legends and specializations, but at the beginning, it’s kinda obvious they weren’t able to nicely cut up everything into 4 equal parts.

Considering that might stacking helps condi too… Herald feels required. It also has the only good heal because it is constant instead of tiny bursts on long cool-downs. If the mobs did less or equal damage to the heal, as an average, including considerations for dodging, then any heal would be viable to run with… otherwise, I really want that regen.

I just kinda wish mace AA was the same range as all the other skills in the mace/axe combo. I feel like, for a lot of the encounters, it is safer to stay back and use 2-5 exclusively because I just do not have the endurance to dodge roll all the face-smacking that happens to melee. I really liked that the game, before the new area, was most fun melee… now it seems to have changed away from that

If that was the case, I would not need Herald and could use three other trait lines… but I just feel it is required if you want to survive in melee.

I dont know if I agree with any of this, but I did not like the Rev at all until Herald. I cant play Rev without it. That doesnt mean it NEEDs it though, but I personally wont use it without it at all.

ANET really messed up with the “elite” specs. They should have been alternate play styles. They should not have been mandatory to be relevant.

Like i said before i’m pretty sure it’s for us a tool for selling the expansion. The only two specs that wasn’t mandatory dragonhunter and tempest was the least liked of all. So i pretty sure now specs are going to be classe v2 and must have but, yeah with this system i don’t know how it’s going to work in the next expansion. Imagine rev without herald and swiftness or mesmer without chronomancer. It’s a problem

gannondorf.7628:

Like i said before i’m pretty sure it’s for us a tool for selling the expansion. The only two specs that wasn’t mandatory dragonhunter and tempest was the least liked of all. So i pretty sure now specs are going to be classe v2 and must have but, yeah with this system i don’t know how it’s going to work in the next expansion. Imagine rev without herald and swiftness or chronomancer without chronomancer. It’s a problem

Mesmer still mesmer tho. So Chronomancer being strong is meaningless when its already strong. Rev on other hand, is paper without Herald.

the Herald is pretty much required compared .

I’ve been playing both with and without the elite profession specs. I don’t feel that any of them are necessary.

For example, I main mesmer. I’ve mained mesmer for three years. I love the Chronomancer. But at one point I switched out the spec for a different spec. And it did just fine for my needs at the time.

Adamantium.3682:

Drayos.8759:

this is because its the Elite Specialization, its built to be the Core of Every proffession.

I feel like a lot of your post is based off of this incorrect assumption. Anet has said that elite specs are supposed to offer another way to play a profession, changing the way they normally work. The elite specs are not supposed to be “the only right option”, and I don’t really think they are except for Herald.

That is what we all wanted/expected, yes. That is also what Anet said. However if that is what they tried to do, they did it wrong.

I expected elite specializations to “add some, lose some”. Add some new things for classes, and remove significant things, thus giving you a different “class” based on the original, with different strengths and weaknesses.

Instead what we got in most (not all, but most) cases, is just stuff on top of the core profession, and the only thing you lose is one normal specialization. So you get a massive boost, an extra weapon, extra utilities, and all around, a ton of extra power, at the cost of a specialization line, often one that wasn’t that important.

In the few cases where the class does give something up (Reaper loses range in Death Shroud), the replacement is almost strictly better by the meta. Elementalist seems to be the only exception, and it’s debatable (and because the core class is broken to begin with).

If ArenaNet wanted Elite specializations to give choices, they needed the tradeoffs to be larger. Things like losing a weapon to gain a weapon, losing the class core mechanic in favor of the new one, having some penalty to go along the bonuses… Some tradeoff. But they didn’t do that. So it’s to be expected that elite specialization end up being one of two things: Either they flat out suck, either they’re mandatory.

A lot of MMOs fell in that trap. Without changing the design to make elite specialization “lose” stuff, they really have 2 paths in the future:

1) add more elite specializations so we have a choice (they said they’ll do that eventually)
2) Make it that you gain something for using 3 core (kind of a “Core elite”). This has been done by several MMOs that did the same thing (eg: DDO)

Pompeia.5483:

Considering that might stacking helps condi too… Herald feels required. It also has the only good heal because it is constant instead of tiny bursts on long cool-downs. If the mobs did less or equal damage to the heal, as an average, including considerations for dodging, then any heal would be viable to run with… otherwise, I really want that regen.

I just kinda wish mace AA was the same range as all the other skills in the mace/axe combo. I feel like, for a lot of the encounters, it is safer to stay back and use 2-5 exclusively because I just do not have the endurance to dodge roll all the face-smacking that happens to melee. I really liked that the game, before the new area, was most fun melee… now it seems to have changed away from that

If that was the case, I would not need Herald and could use three other trait lines… but I just feel it is required if you want to survive in melee.

Main problem of Condition Revenant is just that he needs another Condition weapon, preferably MH and Ranged. If he gets it, he’s fine. Without, he kinda has to either camp mace or go hybrid.

Might on Condi Rev without Herald wasn’t and isn’t a problem. In the first Rev preview I ran Mallyx/Jalis and I was able to maintain 20+ mightstacks by myself in combat without much of an issue. If you take Devastation and Shiro instead of Jalis, you will gain access to Master trait giving long might. There’s blasting your own fire field with Mace, sigils and runes, Invocation GM giving tons of might if you’re good with Energy Management and so on.

The real question is why does it feel that way?

I think the answer is that every legend (other than glint) is the barebone version of that role. Jalis is a tank. Ventari is a healer. There isn’t really an in-between with these legends.
Now Glint on the otherhand has multiple uses. Use it to boost your damage with permanent fury. Use it to tank with perma protection or regen. You could even argue it can go condi with might and Elemental Burst.

Basically I think that Glint feels essential because she works well with every legend while all the others only seem to work well her.

Tritone.1395:

The real question is why does it feel that way?

I think the answer is that every legend (other than glint) is the barebone version of that role. Jalis is a tank. Ventari is a healer. There isn’t really an in-between with these legends.
Now Glint on the otherhand has multiple uses. Use it to boost your damage with permanent fury. Use it to tank with perma protection or regen. You could even argue it can go condi with might and Elemental Burst.

Basically I think that Glint feels essential because she works well with every legend while all the others only seem to work well her.

This. Glint feels like the model for how the legends should be designed. The skills are basically doubled compared to other legends, which means they’re more flexible, and that addresses some of the biggest complaints about revenants in general. The way that you can doubletap facets to get the active skill without paying more than a tick of the upkeep cost (except the elite, because I think you pay the cost until the animation finishes?) means that energy doesn’t feel like as much of an issue, even when you’re keeping multiple upkeep skills active almost all the time. For the first time I’m actually using my whole skillbar, and it feels like weapon skills and utilities work together fluidly rather than against each other.

And all in all it just feels better. Herald is what made Revenant “click” for me, but I can’t imagine playing the class without it…

Tritone.1395:

The real question is why does it feel that way?

I think the answer is that every legend (other than glint) is the barebone version of that role. Jalis is a tank. Ventari is a healer. There isn’t really an in-between with these legends.
Now Glint on the otherhand has multiple uses. Use it to boost your damage with permanent fury. Use it to tank with perma protection or regen. You could even argue it can go condi with might and Elemental Burst.

Basically I think that Glint feels essential because she works well with every legend while all the others only seem to work well her.

^this! From my personal experience playing Revenant, Glint felt like it helped to augment whatever playstyle I wanted to achieve based on the circumstances I was in. If I wanted DPS I rolled Shiro and Glint, more tanky go Jalis and Glint and so forth. Glint for me just added that extra buff I needed to make my build even more viable and in turn made the whole profession more fun to play. No you don’t need to have Glint for your build but it just felt better to play her along side with any other Legend.

People in this thread saying that the Revenant sucks without Herald and I’m sitting here laughing my butt off cause I get by just fine in all game modes without it.

MercenaryNote.8506:

People in this thread saying that the Revenant sucks without Herald and I’m sitting here laughing my butt off cause I get by just fine in all game modes without it.

That’s why they have Invocation. So you can mix and mesh the base legends if you want.

Tritone.1395:

The real question is why does it feel that way?

I think the answer is that every legend (other than glint) is the barebone version of that role. Jalis is a tank. Ventari is a healer. There isn’t really an in-between with these legends.
Now Glint on the otherhand has multiple uses. Use it to boost your damage with permanent fury. Use it to tank with perma protection or regen. You could even argue it can go condi with might and Elemental Burst.

Basically I think that Glint feels essential because she works well with every legend while all the others only seem to work well her.

This is exactly why I disagreed with the Jalis upkeep skill change. They took one of the skills that actually diversified the legend and made it less diverse. The new version is still good but that’s besides the point.

radioAspen.6829:

And all in all it just feels better. Herald is what made Revenant “click” for me, but I can’t imagine playing the class without it…

Yup. Before Herald was announced, I liked the Revenant, but it felt like something was missing in the previous beta test.

IMO that’s because of the active combat system, Shiro, Malyx and Glint give way to more adaptability in PvP, in PvE it’s not as noticed unless you do a lot of stuff solo and try to maximize your damage using Facets to gain boons and might, put conditions to up perosnal DPS, you can cap 25 might and fury for 10 seconds if you use all facets in a certain rotation, and 10-15 vuln but that leaves you with no boon uptime for around 10 seconds, Jalis feels not as good because it has good skills with high costs that have no apparent use or look like worse options because of that than what revenant has with other legends, Ventari feels slow and clunky because you need to move around the tablet and all those heals are redundant and the most valuable thing it has is the low cost low CD projectile destruction. Rework them to make them feel more fluid, also I’m guessing this has something to do with Rytlock using Herald skills, HoT being around searching glint’s egg and that maybe Revenant was created with Herald in mind beforehand.

As a last note, a lot of what glint and shiro brought for revenant is a feel of truly paying attention to what are your energy levels and managing active and passive play, which is what makes the profession unique and sets it apart from say warrior, guardian, thief, elementalist or even engineer and it was previously compared to all of those and paled in comparison in every departmnent, now it has it’s own unique way to contribute to parties and dps that is up there with ele and engi.

I think the Herald definitely feels more integrated than the other elites, but I think this is almost necessary, given how Revenants are so “build locked.” You’re free to do without the shield if you like, but if you pick the Glint Legend then you’re taking all the utilities at once, like it or not, and most classes aren’t like that. It’s more of a “theme park” class than a “sandbox” class, so obviously the elite spec seems more integrated in the whole, it sort of has to be.

Adamantium.3682:

I agree. It seems like Herald was the only elite spec designed to be a part of the core profession. The first 8 professions are fine without their ES, but the Revenant to me seems like it was obviously designed from the start to use Herald.
Herald is not an addition but a core part of the profession, and a very important one at that.

I felt this too. It’s Herald that makes Revenant make sense, and I’m pretty sure it was their first designed legend (and I think this is supported by seeing Glint related stuff going on in the very first HoT trailer).

I tested Revenant out a lot this beta in PvE, including Fractals and Dungeons, and I can say it is an extremely effective and powerful class using Herald. This was a pleasant change from the previous beta that was lacking Herald, where it was difficult to get the Revenant to be able to do much of anything effectively without it.
This time around, Herald changed the class a lot, and I really didn’t find much use for the other Legends at all. I ran multiple 20+ scale Fractals with it, and could easily stay in Herald the entire time. Not that this is a bad thing, it’s a fun specialization, and I hope it doesn’t get nerfed at all. I think if anything the other Legends may need some buffs though.
As for traits, Herald seems to benefit immensely from the Devastation line, but the third choice seemed very variable, and allowed for some nice potential build customization based on preference.
Overall I think it’s a fantastic class now, but I do think some of the utility skills of the other Legends could use some improvement, especially Shiro and Jalis. Glint Legend is really the one that feels really ‘right’, while the others feel somewhat clunky (aside perhaps from Ventari).

Tritone.1395:

The real question is why does it feel that way?

I think the answer is that every legend (other than glint) is the barebone version of that role. Jalis is a tank. Ventari is a healer. There isn’t really an in-between with these legends.
Now Glint on the otherhand has multiple uses. Use it to boost your damage with permanent fury. Use it to tank with perma protection or regen. You could even argue it can go condi with might and Elemental Burst.

Basically I think that Glint feels essential because she works well with every legend while all the others only seem to work well her.

This is true. The other legends have too much of a role while glint is more versatile.

This is why each legend should have 1 or 2 more utility options. More customization may make glint less important.

While it’s easy to pigeonhole the non-Glint legends into particular roles – damage (Shiro), healing (Ventari), tanking (Jalis) and conditions (Mallyx) – I think there are levels of subtlety that go deeper than that.

First, traditional DPS-oriented builds often do load their utilities with active defensive skills simply so they can afford to go full glass. It’s a lot easier to survive against those nasty archers in Verdant Brink if you have a Protective Solace sitting on you. Jalis’s various skills are less of a hard counter, but can still allow an otherwise glassier build to get away with having lower defensive stats and still survive.

Second, with the exception of Ventari, many of these effects can also be used in other ways. Jalis’s Stability road means you’re less likely to have your damage interrupted, and while the damage on the hammers has been nerfed, they are still a source of extra damage as well as healing and reduction of incoming damage. Shiro has a dodge. Mallyx is, possibly, the most misunderstood of the legends: Banish Enchantment and the teleport skill are probably more accurately considered to be utility skills where the conditions they inflict are simply an added bonus, and Embrace the Darkness buffs all of your stats. I think somebody did the numbers on the effect of Embrace the Darkness on a berserker build and they ended up not being that far behind what Quickness gives you… and having lower Condition Damage yourself makes self-application of Torment less of a double-edged sword. (Particularly since, if you’re not too worried about receiving other conditions and you can afford not to run Demonic Defiance, one of the alternatives will offset that self-application of Torment with a small heal every second…)

Another thing I think that’s being missed in the premise that Glint is essential is that depending on what you combine it with, Glint has some weaknesses. She’s not particularly mobile beyond permanent-swiftness (no gap openers or closers), has no inherent answers to conditions, the only additional protection against control she offers is a stunbreak through Gaze of Darkness, and she offers little control in return beyond the 45 second cooldown of consuming Facet of Chaos. Most of the legends you can combine her with will retain at least one of these weaknesses, while combinations of other legends can cover these weaknesses. She does make for a very fun legend and is probably easier to grasp all the things she can do than some of the others, but I don’t think it’s necessary to take Herald in order to be an effective revenant.

shiro/mallyx is good.
you can insta break shield 5 with UA lol