Guild Wars 2

I’ll have this forum bug wrapped in silk and drained of fluids in a jiffy.

Now it’s a perfect moment and justification to buff Ventari and use my Invigorating Flow suggestion <3

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

I would say that Rev has access to more wide range of support but honestly, Why WOULD you ever take rev over a druid for support roles?

Why would you ever take a Revenant for support roles?

Carighan.6758:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

I would say that Rev has access to more wide range of support but honestly, Why WOULD you ever take rev over a druid for support roles?

Why would you ever take a Revenant for support roles?

Yes that’s it. Revenant are supposed to be versatile so they can’t be the best in healing. They’re just gona be complement for druid.

Is Ventari even able to compete with this? (spoiler: that’s a Guardian build, not Druid)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAW5el8Ah2hY3QwTIQTEHLE1NA+yCAfBVQYmvv9LEA-TByGABAcRAwTJ4Q7PskyvX1EwmOhcfCAJq+TAAEgf7b8NfD8zf+zf+zf2xNuxNuxNOpA8bvF-e
edit: pasted the wrong link

This thing has over 4k passive heal every 10 seconds, 6k, 3k, 3k, 2k, 2k active heals, also heals on symbols and many attacks (a 2k heal every 3 seconds), instant raise and full party heal (that can be a 20k aoe heal).

This without astral shroud, moving tablets around and whatever. Passive sustained heal and active burst.
Also might, burning, retaliation, aegis , regen, fury.

Is Ventari better then this? Is even Druid better then this?

The active heal is huge, but just look at the passive heal via traits, virtues, signet and aegis. Also no need for allies to go around and grab orbs or tablet fragments.

BlackDevil.9268:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

I rather see it the other way around:
Ventari is limited to a small pool of energy with a nice on demand burst healing, while not really healing much over a large duration of time since you would run out of energy quickly.
While Druid can basically heal already quite good with just the weapon skills already and provides for a nice burst but also quite long burst healing after building up astral force.

You can actually output a lot of sustained healing with the tablet by just spamming Ventari’s Will and Natural Harmony constantly.
I don’t know if it will beat Druid, but I think Ventari could still be a very viable ranged healer spec. In which case a valid reason to use it over Druid could be that you just like it better.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

Well druid staff has pretty high sustained healing/support it seems.
I’d like to see a little love to ventari#6, make it istant (so teleporting, healing on arrival, not while walking) increase a bit the healing, decrese cost to 5energy or a combination of those.
The elite too could use some tweakes but overall i feel is the #6 that needs it most.
Thoughts?

gannondorf.7628:

Carighan.6758:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

I would say that Rev has access to more wide range of support but honestly, Why WOULD you ever take rev over a druid for support roles?

Why would you ever take a Revenant for support roles?

Yes that’s it. Revenant are supposed to be versatile so they can’t be the best in healing. They’re just gona be complement for druid.

Druid is not only Druid. It’s also Ranger with zergkilling traps, greatsword, longbow and so on.
Ranger is almost as versatile as Revenant.

Gaaroth.2567:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

Well druid staff has pretty high sustained healing/support it seems.
I’d like to see a little love to ventari#6, make it istant (so teleporting, healing on arrival, not while walking) increase a bit the healing, decrese cost to 5energy or a combination of those.
The elite too could use some tweakes but overall i feel is the #6 that needs it most.
Thoughts?

I partially agree. Tablet needs autosummon on Ventari swap (now swap has cd also ooc, so why not?) and #6 has to be instant cast. I like the effect on the line however instead of landing, but it needs something to visually alert allied that they can get healed if they do not move away.
Otherwise yeah, it’s better to just instant teleport it and heal on landing, or make it travel way faster/extend the radius of the heal.

Kidel.2057:

Is Ventari even able to compete with this? (spoiler: that’s a Guardian build, not Druid)
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemnnN2gSyJvQRNlbosoyPU4U5IKIs8ElFglh9iNKZNgDWw+2eHG-TRDBABXcEAgSZmYKFGUbQQq/A9hAAgTAwYKJcwMXW7PctSw80BEwDAIAACw75eu39A04+MkCwv9WA-e

This thing has over 4k passive heal every 10 seconds, 6k, 3k, 3k, 2k, 2k active heals, also heals on symbols and many attacks (a 2k heal every 3 seconds), instant raise and full party heal (that can be a 20k aoe heal).

This without astral shroud, moving tablets around and whatever. Passive sustained heal and active burst.
Also might, burning, retaliation, aegis , regen, fury.

Is Ventari better then this? Is even Druid better then this?

The active heal is huge, but just look at the passive heal via traits, virtues, signet and aegis. Also no need for allies to go around and grab orbs or tablet fragments.

What you linked is a ventari/glint build that isn’t maximazed for healing.

Varezenem.2813:

What you linked is a ventari/glint build that isn’t maximazed for healing.

Wrong link, sorry:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAW5el8Ah2hY3QwTIQTEHLE1NA+yCAfBVQYmvv9LEA-TByGABAcRAwTJ4Q7PskyvX1EwmOhcfCAJq+TAAEgf7b8NfD8zf+zf+zf2xNuxNuxNOpA8bvF-e

Eh, I’ve always seen the Revenant as, like some have said, a jack of all trades, master of none class. It can do the various roles and do them well when properly optimized, but there are individual class specs which do the job better.

This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, as jack of all trades classes have always had a niche and Revenant was built this way from the start. It does good damage, good healing, can be designed as a condition fighter, or can tank, as needed. Of course, it has to be optimized for each role, but with the advent of legendary armor to be coming in HoT, that means you can stat switch on the fly for various roles out of combat, adding a new level of meta gaming that the Revenant is built for.

jgcd.6041:

Eh, I’ve always seen the Revenant as, like some have said, a jack of all trades, master of none class. It can do the various roles and do them well when properly optimized, but there are individual class specs which do the job better.

Guardian can currently do everything Revenant does, just differently.
Same for ele and probably engi.

GW2 is designed so that every class can fit multiple roles, so this “jack of all trades” is not something revenant-only.
Ranger itself is not only a druid.

Kidel.2057:

Is Ventari even able to compete with this? (spoiler: that’s a Guardian build, not Druid)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAW5el8Ah2hY3QwTIQTEHLE1NA+yCAfBVQYmvv9LEA-TByGABAcRAwTJ4Q7PskyvX1EwmOhcfCAJq+TAAEgf7b8NfD8zf+zf+zf2xNuxNuxNOpA8bvF-e
edit: pasted the wrong link

This thing has over 4k passive heal every 10 seconds, 6k, 3k, 3k, 2k, 2k active heals, also heals on symbols and many attacks (a 2k heal every 3 seconds), instant raise and full party heal (that can be a 20k aoe heal).

This without astral shroud, moving tablets around and whatever. Passive sustained heal and active burst.
Also might, burning, retaliation, aegis , regen, fury.

Is Ventari better then this? Is even Druid better then this?

The active heal is huge, but just look at the passive heal via traits, virtues, signet and aegis. Also no need for allies to go around and grab orbs or tablet fragments.

Druid still has much better burst healing. The healing numbers shown in game didn’t have stats attached to them so they will be better in full clerics. Given that, you can also add 50% healing increase from runes, traits, food etc. Combined with high healing power the numbers can/ will be very high.

The passive wisp at the moment is aoe heal of 300, with gear thats closer to 600. So that’s on par with Guardian’s regen virtue.

Looking at pure burst, guardian staff 4 will have similar healing to druid staff 4 but the latter is on a 12s cd (vs 20s), though I note the loss of might, but might can easily be stacked up by PS war’s.

Druid’s also have 1-2k heals every time a glyph is placed which will remove 2 condi’s at same time.

The real power of Druids come from Celestial Avatar though. The 1 skill will do almost 2k heals (no cast time, no cd, spammable). In the vid he goes 1hp to 15k hp in 12s. With gear and food, this would be halved. Remember, this is the 1 skill, has no cast time, is aoe and hits 5 targets at 1200 range.

The 2 skill is the seed trait i mentioned above, i.e. 1-2k heal aoe with 1s cd and removes 2 condi at 1200 range.

The 3 skill will be around an aoe 5k heal/ daze on 5s cd and a blast finisher.

The 4 skill is a water field that will pulse 2-3k heals 5 times and can be combined with blast finishers.

The elite skill in CA form will further heal allies each time you heal – no number yet.

Their best skill though is their heal in CA form. Normally outgoing ally heals don’t effect self heal skills much because self =/= ally. But because this healing skill hits the allies more than yourself, the 5-6k base heal can become 10-12k (conservative estimate) aoe heal every 19s. Compared to the Guardian’s elite aoe heal which is on a 3min cd, you could use the Druid heal 9x in the same time frame. That’s 500k+ healing Vs 75k healing (assuming 15k hp avg of party).

I haven’t even mentioned the pet heal which can be 2x 3.5k hp aoe heals or the 5 skill which converts projectile to health.

Overall, I need to confirm the number’s next BWE, but on paper Druid looks to have no match with regard to burst healing.

Guardian’s will compete with Ventari, ele’s etc for back up healer role, but maybe 2 Druid’s would be better? I don’t know, but I will be testing druid next week for sure. Also, your Guardian build doesn’t have much group condition removal, whilst the default druid has quite a bit.

I’m not sure “sustained healing” has much of a place. If you spread out bursty heals, they will still feel “sustained,” but they will actually be efficient at keeping everyone topped off. I feel like Ventari could still use a few more things. A water field would be a good place to start, in my opinion.

Cecilia.5179:

I’m not sure “sustained healing” has much of a place. If you spread out bursty heals, they will still feel “sustained,” but they will actually be efficient at keeping everyone topped off. I feel like Ventari could still use a few more things. A water field would be a good place to start, in my opinion.

It depends on whether you are forced in raids to stay in damaging aoe. Ventari with healing gear gives you a constant 2000 hps on allies that can jump to 3000 when needed.

Thanks Roy for your answer. I think I prefer revenant to Druid now.

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

arkealia.2713:

Ventari has a 20s projectile block.

Yeah, and druid turns projectiles into healing.

10/10………. you won

What Rev need is energy cost of tablet buff. Need to upgrade to Ipad Air. Just saying. Longer energy in battery. ..

Knighthonor.4061:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

arkealia.2713:

Ventari has a 20s projectile block.

Yeah, and druid turns projectiles into healing.

10/10………. you won

Druid block lasts for 5 seconds. And as irenio mentions doesnt block from above. I don’t know if there is a hard limit imposed on it because from full energy you should be able to block for 33 seconds. Either way with constant use you would get a 8 second block on a 5 second cooldown, still beating druid in sustain.

Well let’s try it out but i’m pretty sure we’ll need some tweaks because while i’m happy for the rangers is not healthy for the game have only 1 master healer. For the sake of balance other classes should be equal in that and revenant as already everything in place for that role.

To be honest, people need to consider that Druid is an elite spec, so in a sense it’s natural it gives more than a baseline trait line could offer to Revenant. That said, Revenant (and Guardian) have access to different sorts of “Healing”, if that makes any sense.

For example, Revenant and Guardian have boon support on top of healing support, with Rev in particular being able to put up stuff like perma regen and protection (with Bolster Fortifications which has no ICD so it synergizes with Ventari’s healing), and access to condi cleanses on the fly. I know a lot of people are bringing “But energy!” complains, but I really can’t foresee a scenario where you will be slamming your face in the keyboard every second in the raid to the point you run out of energy so often. Now, if only Roy listened to my idea and gave the Ventari Elite a Water Field and made Shield 4 a blast finisher…

Druid probably will be the best healing spec in terms of sheer healing, but Guardian and Revenant offer support in ways Druid cannot, and I’m confident the three classes specced for healing will be fine in any raid thanks to fulfilling their roles in different degrees and efficiencies.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

Ok with this answered.

Is there going to be a place in game where sustained healing is useful?

It’s only going to be sustained healing if you camp the legend though. I don’t think it’d be very enjoyable to camp centaur stance using Facet of Nature every now and then. Druid can heal it’s allies even when it’s not in the celestial form, but Rev needs to be in centaur stance to provide more healing than just regen.

Lauriewonnacott.9841:

It’s only going to be sustained healing if you camp the legend though. I don’t think it’d be very enjoyable to camp centaur stance using Facet of Nature every now and then. Druid can heal it’s allies even when it’s not in the celestial form, but Rev needs to be in centaur stance to provide more healing than just regen.

Baseline ranger has little ways to heal people too. Staff is the best non-celestial skillset they have for support, and a druid camping staff will deal minimal damage and low heals. It goes both ways, really, but with the key difference that celestial form has a time limit, whereas Ventari has not (thus Roy’s comment).

Lauriewonnacott.9841:

It’s only going to be sustained healing if you camp the legend though.

If you swap out of Ventari and then swap back in the moment it comes off cd you’ll immediately gain 50 energy, which is the same as what you would’ve gotten if you had camped it, but then you also got to use 100 total energy in your other legend. Thus the optimal use case for Ventari is as burst healing.

All I want for Ventari is less clunkiness. I’m okay with not having as much healing as druid since we have better boon coverage (esp protection) and possible 50% dmg reduction from Jalis. But please, make Ventari healing fun. Summon the tablet as soon as you swap to Ventari so we can do things like clutch projectile block, or clutch heal or clutch condi removal. Having to summon the tablet crippled the fun for me so much.

Something else I found was that with the cast times and how slowly the the tablet moves to its destination, your allies have already moved out of the way and your heals go nowhere. That heal you charged up before you moved the tablet? Ally has already dodged out of the way.

I really love the idea of the Revenant, I had my heart set on playing one as soon as I tested Glint, but I feel I’m gonna be pushed into the druid because the healing is not just better, but more importantly, more fun. Please please please bring Ventari to the place the Druid seems to be at.

Kiwifruit.5904:

All I want for Ventari is less clunkiness. I’m okay with not having as much healing as druid since we have better boon coverage (esp protection) and possible 50% dmg reduction from Jalis. But please, make Ventari healing fun. Summon the tablet as soon as you swap to Ventari so we can do things like clutch projectile block, or clutch heal or clutch condi removal. Having to summon the tablet crippled the fun for me so much.

Something else I found was that with the cast times and how slowly the the tablet moves to its destination, your allies have already moved out of the way and your heals go nowhere. That heal you charged up before you moved the tablet? Ally has already dodged out of the way.

I really love the idea of the Revenant, I had my heart set on playing one as soon as I tested Glint, but I feel I’m gonna be pushed into the druid because the healing is not just better, but more importantly, more fun. Please please please bring Ventari to the place the Druid seems to be at.

+1

/15tablets

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

This one I don’t exactly agree with.

The tablet can be summoned at ranged. So if you are trying to assist an ally far away you only pay the cost associated as if you had moved it from your initial location to your ally’s. In your version one would still be paying the same cost to move the tablet to the ally, only this would take longer.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

This one I don’t exactly agree with.

The tablet can be summoned at ranged. So if you are trying to assist an ally far away you only pay the cost associated as if you had moved it from your initial location to your ally’s. In your version one would still be paying the same cost to move the tablet to the ally, only this would take longer.

It wouldn’t, though, because the movement takes the same amount of time as the summon time.

Realistically speaking, it can’t summon anywhere but your location when you first switch to Ventari if it were automatic. I don’t think anyone really doubts this.

If you wanted to help an ally at range, right now you summon the tablet at range, using .5 seconds and 10 energy to cast it. If you want to use it next to you, it uses .5 seconds and 10 energy to summon it there.

Let’s say it auto-summoned at your location, though. If you want to help an ally at range, you still use .5 seconds and 10 energy to move it. The tablet moves fast enough that it would arrive at your desired location before any of the other skills could take effect anyway. So really this wouldn’t change a thing for aiding allies at range.

In melee, however, you no longer have that .5 second and 10 energy cost associated with just using the legend at all.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

This one I don’t exactly agree with.

The tablet can be summoned at ranged. So if you are trying to assist an ally far away you only pay the cost associated as if you had moved it from your initial location to your ally’s. In your version one would still be paying the same cost to move the tablet to the ally, only this would take longer.

It wouldn’t, though, because the movement takes the same amount of time as the summon time.

Realistically speaking, it can’t summon anywhere but your location when you first switch to Ventari if it were automatic. I don’t think anyone really doubts this.

If you wanted to help an ally at range, right now you summon the tablet at range, using .5 seconds and 10 energy to cast it. If you want to use it next to you, it uses .5 seconds and 10 energy to summon it there.

Let’s say it auto-summoned at your location, though. If you want to help an ally at range, you still use .5 seconds and 10 energy to move it. The tablet moves fast enough that it would arrive at your desired location before any of the other skills could take effect anyway. So really this wouldn’t change a thing for aiding allies at range.

In melee, however, you no longer have that .5 second and 10 energy cost associated with just using the legend at all.

Here are some scenarios.

Your ally at range wants the projectile destruction.

You swap to Ventari while mass invisibility just went off. Oops. They aoe the spot where the tablet is.

You want to use energy expulsion but you don’t want your enemies to see you moving the tablet.

You are running and swap to ventari. At around 1400 feet you need a skill. You have no idea where the tablet is , you have to choose between continuing to run and hoping it despawns, or telling it to come to your location and waiting for it.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

This one I don’t exactly agree with.

The tablet can be summoned at ranged. So if you are trying to assist an ally far away you only pay the cost associated as if you had moved it from your initial location to your ally’s. In your version one would still be paying the same cost to move the tablet to the ally, only this would take longer.

It wouldn’t, though, because the movement takes the same amount of time as the summon time.

Realistically speaking, it can’t summon anywhere but your location when you first switch to Ventari if it were automatic. I don’t think anyone really doubts this.

If you wanted to help an ally at range, right now you summon the tablet at range, using .5 seconds and 10 energy to cast it. If you want to use it next to you, it uses .5 seconds and 10 energy to summon it there.

Let’s say it auto-summoned at your location, though. If you want to help an ally at range, you still use .5 seconds and 10 energy to move it. The tablet moves fast enough that it would arrive at your desired location before any of the other skills could take effect anyway. So really this wouldn’t change a thing for aiding allies at range.

In melee, however, you no longer have that .5 second and 10 energy cost associated with just using the legend at all.

Here are some scenarios.

Your ally at range wants the projectile destruction.

You swap to Ventari while mass invisibility just went off. Oops. They aoe the spot where the tablet is.

You want to use energy expulsion but you don’t want your enemies to see you moving the tablet.

You are running and swap to ventari. At around 1400 feet you need a skill. You have no idea where the tablet is , you have to choose between continuing to run and hoping it despawns, or telling it to come to your location and waiting for it.

1. In the event that your ally cannot handle the short amount of time it takes for you to move the tablet over to him, this is a failure on your part as the Revenant for not having the situational awareness to anticipate the attack.

2. Niche scenario at best, as Mass Invisibility is usually communicated if used beforehand and, if you’re already in combat, they’re AoE’ing the spot you were just in anyway. If you’re trying to surprise someone with Mass Invisibility, you wouldn’t be in Ventari. You would be in the legend that has superior (read: any at all) offense.

3. Energy Expulsion goes off wherever you last put the tablet. As you pointed out above, the opponent knows where the tablet is; you can’t hide it. I’m not sure why not wanting them to see you move the tablet is of any importance since it has to stay still for 1 second anyhow.

4. You know exactly where the tablet is: where you were when you swapped. This is not a difficult thing to figure out. So you move the tablet to a place in front of you if you need it ASAP or let it expire from range and place it anew.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

This one I don’t exactly agree with.

The tablet can be summoned at ranged. So if you are trying to assist an ally far away you only pay the cost associated as if you had moved it from your initial location to your ally’s. In your version one would still be paying the same cost to move the tablet to the ally, only this would take longer.

It wouldn’t, though, because the movement takes the same amount of time as the summon time.

Realistically speaking, it can’t summon anywhere but your location when you first switch to Ventari if it were automatic. I don’t think anyone really doubts this.

If you wanted to help an ally at range, right now you summon the tablet at range, using .5 seconds and 10 energy to cast it. If you want to use it next to you, it uses .5 seconds and 10 energy to summon it there.

Let’s say it auto-summoned at your location, though. If you want to help an ally at range, you still use .5 seconds and 10 energy to move it. The tablet moves fast enough that it would arrive at your desired location before any of the other skills could take effect anyway. So really this wouldn’t change a thing for aiding allies at range.

In melee, however, you no longer have that .5 second and 10 energy cost associated with just using the legend at all.

Here are some scenarios.

Your ally at range wants the projectile destruction.

You swap to Ventari while mass invisibility just went off. Oops. They aoe the spot where the tablet is.

You want to use energy expulsion but you don’t want your enemies to see you moving the tablet.

You are running and swap to ventari. At around 1400 feet you need a skill. You have no idea where the tablet is , you have to choose between continuing to run and hoping it despawns, or telling it to come to your location and waiting for it.

1. In the event that your ally cannot handle the short amount of time it takes for you to move the tablet over to him, this is a failure on your part as the Revenant for not having the situational awareness to anticipate the attack.

2. Niche scenario at best, as Mass Invisibility is usually communicated if used beforehand and, if you’re already in combat, they’re AoE’ing the spot you were just in anyway. If you’re trying to surprise someone with Mass Invisibility, you wouldn’t be in Ventari. You would be in the legend that has superior (read: any at all) offense.

3. Energy Expulsion goes off wherever you last put the tablet. As you pointed out above, the opponent knows where the tablet is; you can’t hide it. I’m not sure why not wanting them to see you move the tablet is of any importance since it has to stay still for 1 second anyhow.

4. You know exactly where the tablet is: where you were when you swapped. This is not a difficult thing to figure out. So you move the tablet to a place in front of you if you need it ASAP or let it expire from range and place it anew.

1. That failure is something common in pvp then. For .5 of a second is 1/5 of rapid fire. A true shot is done in .75 of a second. Killshot in 1.25 of a second. And with quickness it becomes even harder.

2. Aoe stealth is not a niche scenario. It is one of the basis of wvw zerg combat. It is the reason why we don’t allow people to use minipets in wvw.

3. In wvw and pvp, the radius of explusion is enough that I can summon the tablet in area they cannot see, and still use the skill. Telling the tablet to move through their line of sight is essentially telling all enemies “hey I’m going to use that skill”. As there is no reason to move a tablet to the enemy otherwise. Don’t deny people the benefit of swapping legends during normal zerg play, all to save 2 seconds of time.

4. You describe the delay of moving the tablet 900 range kitten of second. I debate that number, but we can still work that number into this example. For instance when you have moved 1350 feet away from the tablet it now takes .75 of a second to move to my location. This is more than double the summon time of .25 second. Your version doesn’t only penalize ranged casters, it also penalizes people who want to move.

Carighan.6758:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

I would say that Rev has access to more wide range of support but honestly, Why WOULD you ever take rev over a druid for support roles?

Why would you ever take a Revenant for support roles?

I’ll do whatever role my group needs if I can. I’ve already prepared 4 armor and weapon sets, 1 for each legend (dps, tank, healer, condi dps). I’m also testing cleric Guardian in pvp with some friends (against Svanir) and it’s pretty strong. It only needs a cd reduction on some stuff imo, but can burst heal with long cds and do small sustained heal and boons. The elite signet may need a cast time reduction.

I’ll compare it and revenant with druid to see if they are viable

Kidel.2057:

Carighan.6758:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

I would say that Rev has access to more wide range of support but honestly, Why WOULD you ever take rev over a druid for support roles?

Why would you ever take a Revenant for support roles?

I’ll do whatever role my group needs if I can. I’ve already prepared 4 armor and weapon sets, 1 for each legend (dps, tank, healer, condi dps). I’m also testing cleric Guardian in pvp with some friends (against Svanir) and it’s pretty strong. It only needs a cd reduction on some stuff imo, but can burst heal with long cds and do small sustained heal and boons. The elite signet may need a cast time reduction.

I’ll compare it and revenant with druid to see if they are viable

Yeah i’ll focus on some healing too in this BWE, and compare it to a druid ;-)

I also want to see how often a druid can go in astral form. Out of it it’s not a bog deal on healing (it’s a cc monstrr however).

What frightens me is that the community is perceiving druid as “the only healer” or “the best healer”. This is not healthy for the game. Even if it’s not the only healer, what the community thinks is important.

Rev can actually do damage while still providing the heals and support where druids overall dps looks like it will be weak.

Staff has a heal, and produces healing orbs. Ventari heals can be spammed out and its traitline is literally take all this extra healing %s k thx.

I think people are underestimating just how much healing potential you can put out on a Rev. At the end of the day the content will tell us what we need for it, and players are clever they end up doing things most devs/testers never even thought of.

I am more concerned if healing is going to be a thing that healers get loot/event credit for healing.

Kidel.2057:

Carighan.6758:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

I would say that Rev has access to more wide range of support but honestly, Why WOULD you ever take rev over a druid for support roles?

Why would you ever take a Revenant for support roles?

I’ll do whatever role my group needs if I can. I’ve already prepared 4 armor and weapon sets, 1 for each legend (dps, tank, healer, condi dps). I’m also testing cleric Guardian in pvp with some friends (against Svanir) and it’s pretty strong. It only needs a cd reduction on some stuff imo, but can burst heal with long cds and do small sustained heal and boons. The elite signet may need a cast time reduction.

I’ll compare it and revenant with druid to see if they are viable

The WvW group I used to run with rolled guardians that ran clerics/magi’s mixes with dodge healing and stuff. Was actually amazingly good at sustaining the front line and themselves by sheer virtue of having outgoing sustain mixed with decent little spammable heals on dodge and staff #2.
What I feel from my limited time from rev is like that on steroids if you play it right. Less “roll against the wall for heals” at clutch moments and more keeping the tablet in the right place at the right time. Feels about the same. Which was satisfying. Just kind of wish the tablets heal had a bit more range than that dodge trait COUGH

Stinja.9612:

Rev can actually do damage while still providing the heals and support where druids overall dps looks like it will be weak.

Staff has a heal, and produces healing orbs. Ventari heals can be spammed out and its traitline is literally take all this extra healing %s k thx.

I think people are underestimating just how much healing potential you can put out on a Rev. At the end of the day the content will tell us what we need for it, and players are clever they end up doing things most devs/testers never even thought of.

I am more concerned if healing is going to be a thing that healers get loot/event credit for healing.

People definitely underestimate the healing potential of the revenant.

The tempest can burst heal around 50,000 every 37ish second. However the revenant can sustain heal more than twice as well as the other professions. So the revenant with its sustained hps of 2000+ takes longer to heal the amount of the burst healers, but it does it on a shorter cd. So if watched over time the revenant has healed much more.

As it stands right now the revenant is the only profession that can outheal lava. And it is the profession I would want protecting me when I am on a ram in wvw and being hit by arrow cart fire.

Daniel Handler.4816:

1. That failure is something common in pvp then. For .5 of a second is 1/5 of rapid fire. A true shot is done in .75 of a second. Killshot in 1.25 of a second. And with quickness it becomes even harder.

2. Aoe stealth is not a niche scenario. It is one of the basis of wvw zerg combat. It is the reason why we don’t allow people to use minipets in wvw.

3. In wvw and pvp, the radius of explusion is enough that I can summon the tablet in area they cannot see, and still use the skill. Telling the tablet to move through their line of sight is essentially telling all enemies “hey I’m going to use that skill”. As there is no reason to move a tablet to the enemy otherwise. Don’t deny people the benefit of swapping legends during normal zerg play, all to save 2 seconds of time.

4. You describe the delay of moving the tablet 900 range kitten of second. I debate that number, but we can still work that number into this example. For instance when you have moved 1350 feet away from the tablet it now takes .75 of a second to move to my location. This is more than double the summon time of .25 second. Your version doesn’t only penalize ranged casters, it also penalizes people who want to move.

1. If your ally is out of defenses of their own and is under projectile assault, that is something you should have noticed if you’re playing a support build. A couple hits of Rapid Fire won’t kill anyone and Kill Shot, even with quickness, still gives enough time to swap and move the tablet in the way.

2. AoE stealth mid-combat is a niche scenario. AoE stealth to engage is not. However, if you’re engaging, you wouldn’t be in Ventari at that moment, so there’s no tablet to worry about hiding. If you are in combat, your enemies know where you were anyway, tablet or no. The presence of the tablet won’t give you away unless you’re an idiot.

3. They can see you are in Ventari stance. They can see you are using some long cast. There is only one thing you could possibly be doing. The tablet being “hidden” means virtually nothing.

4. 1/2 second cast to summon the tablet. So you’re losing… no time at all, as to move from 1350 to 1500 range to despawn the tablet takes more time than the 1/4 second difference between summon time and move time. In this case, you’re also describing having legend swapped too early, as it takes ~5 seconds to walk that far from your tablet in combat. So no, it doesn’t punish people for moving. It punishes them for making obvious mistakes. You swapped to Ventari for a reason. Why didn’t you keep the tablet near you? Aiding someone else? Fine, but then you don’t get to complain about it not being near you when you need a skill.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

This one I don’t exactly agree with.

The tablet can be summoned at ranged. So if you are trying to assist an ally far away you only pay the cost associated as if you had moved it from your initial location to your ally’s. In your version one would still be paying the same cost to move the tablet to the ally, only this would take longer.

It wouldn’t, though, because the movement takes the same amount of time as the summon time.

Realistically speaking, it can’t summon anywhere but your location when you first switch to Ventari if it were automatic. I don’t think anyone really doubts this.

If you wanted to help an ally at range, right now you summon the tablet at range, using .5 seconds and 10 energy to cast it. If you want to use it next to you, it uses .5 seconds and 10 energy to summon it there.

Let’s say it auto-summoned at your location, though. If you want to help an ally at range, you still use .5 seconds and 10 energy to move it. The tablet moves fast enough that it would arrive at your desired location before any of the other skills could take effect anyway. So really this wouldn’t change a thing for aiding allies at range.

In melee, however, you no longer have that .5 second and 10 energy cost associated with just using the legend at all.

Here are some scenarios.

Your ally at range wants the projectile destruction.

You swap to Ventari while mass invisibility just went off. Oops. They aoe the spot where the tablet is.

You want to use energy expulsion but you don’t want your enemies to see you moving the tablet.

You are running and swap to ventari. At around 1400 feet you need a skill. You have no idea where the tablet is , you have to choose between continuing to run and hoping it despawns, or telling it to come to your location and waiting for it.

1. In the event that your ally cannot handle the short amount of time it takes for you to move the tablet over to him, this is a failure on your part as the Revenant for not having the situational awareness to anticipate the attack.

.

While I agree with some of your points I don’t agree with this one.

You can not play the game for someone else.

In the event that an ally is getting pelted with ranged projectiles, they should be actively working to counter them, not the other way around.
And EVERY class has some way to deal with projectiles now.

-What if they are out of defenses-

This is assuming a bunch of different scenerio’s happened
If this is mid combat-
You have no way of predicting that the ally who has been pelted from range wont be engaged then in melee from someone else.
Called as the target and bursted down
Or you as the support being the new target for burst.

How do you predict the minds of a team with no information from that team.
It’s like trying to predict unknown unknowns.

My point if it became unclear.
It is not your or anyones job in this game to play actively for someone else, in a team oriented game, where that player should be playing and communicating actively.
So I disagree with predicting, because if you predict wrong.
You waste energy, waste time moving your tablet, and your teammate dies anyway.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

1. That failure is something common in pvp then. For .5 of a second is 1/5 of rapid fire. A true shot is done in .75 of a second. Killshot in 1.25 of a second. And with quickness it becomes even harder.

2. Aoe stealth is not a niche scenario. It is one of the basis of wvw zerg combat. It is the reason why we don’t allow people to use minipets in wvw.

3. In wvw and pvp, the radius of explusion is enough that I can summon the tablet in area they cannot see, and still use the skill. Telling the tablet to move through their line of sight is essentially telling all enemies “hey I’m going to use that skill”. As there is no reason to move a tablet to the enemy otherwise. Don’t deny people the benefit of swapping legends during normal zerg play, all to save 2 seconds of time.

4. You describe the delay of moving the tablet 900 range kitten of second. I debate that number, but we can still work that number into this example. For instance when you have moved 1350 feet away from the tablet it now takes .75 of a second to move to my location. This is more than double the summon time of .25 second. Your version doesn’t only penalize ranged casters, it also penalizes people who want to move.

1. If your ally is out of defenses of their own and is under projectile assault, that is something you should have noticed if you’re playing a support build. A couple hits of Rapid Fire won’t kill anyone and Kill Shot, even with quickness, still gives enough time to swap and move the tablet in the way.

2. AoE stealth mid-combat is a niche scenario. AoE stealth to engage is not. However, if you’re engaging, you wouldn’t be in Ventari at that moment, so there’s no tablet to worry about hiding. If you are in combat, your enemies know where you were anyway, tablet or no. The presence of the tablet won’t give you away unless you’re an idiot.

3. They can see you are in Ventari stance. They can see you are using some long cast. There is only one thing you could possibly be doing. The tablet being “hidden” means virtually nothing.

4. 1/2 second cast to summon the tablet. So you’re losing… no time at all, as to move from 1350 to 1500 range to despawn the tablet takes more time than the 1/4 second difference between summon time and move time. In this case, you’re also describing having legend swapped too early, as it takes ~5 seconds to walk that far from your tablet in combat. So no, it doesn’t punish people for moving. It punishes them for making obvious mistakes. You swapped to Ventari for a reason. Why didn’t you keep the tablet near you? Aiding someone else? Fine, but then you don’t get to complain about it not being near you when you need a skill.

All of your comments seem to lack aware of how combat works for revenant.People swap for the energy benefit of swapping. Or for traits to proc.

Aoe stealth to engage means that people either can’t engage in ventari or they can’t use skills while engaging that don’t destealth and try to swap to ventari for energy.

An enemy doesn’t always know where you are. You should control when and where the tablet spawns. If you want to use the tablet as a bomb and then engage. It should be as quick as possible.

It takes only 1/4 of a second to summon the tablet. It takes at least 1/2 a second to move it to 900 feet. Your version, assuming that it takes 1/4 of a second to react means that any warrior with quickness could snipe your allies before you could even react.

The instances where I see your method being better would be if I wanted to aoe stun my enemies in shiro and then knock them away with expulsion. Or if I was always in melee range of my allies which won’t be possible in raids

Or you want to use skills to support yourself right away, which is also common.

Summoning and moving the tablet both have the same cast time (1/2 second, according to the wiki). Assuming a 1/4 second to react, you aren’t going to hit a 3/4 second threshold anyway.

While you’re stealthed, you aren’t using energy. So swapping for energy is not worth it unless you plan on breaking stealth anyway.

Consider the following: you’re facing a Revenant and a Mesmer. Mesmer pops Mass Invisibility and both vanish. Now the Revenant swaps to Ventari: you see the tablet appear and you know where he is, but then the tablet moves. Did he move it over to the Mesmer? Did he just move it to empty space? You don’t know, and you just lost your tag on the Revenant himself. Alternatively, if it stayed where it was, are you going to hit anything if you hit that area? For all you know, the Revenant moved away and is stockpiling energy for weapon skills, not bothering with any Ventari skills at all.

Ventari Revenants that have party members stealthing them have mind games they can play, regardless of how the tablet gets summoned. My proposal lets them access truly instant cleansing or projectile protection for themselves, however, the value of which can’t be overstated.

My proposal also means that you don’t effectively enter Ventari with only 40 energy compared to any other legend.

At this point would it be better to not have an argument between two people on the public forums…?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Or you want to use skills to support yourself right away, which is also common.

Summoning and moving the tablet both have the same cast time (1/2 second, according to the wiki). Assuming a 1/4 second to react, you aren’t going to hit a 3/4 second threshold anyway.

While you’re stealthed, you aren’t using energy. So swapping for energy is not worth it unless you plan on breaking stealth anyway.

Consider the following: you’re facing a Revenant and a Mesmer. Mesmer pops Mass Invisibility and both vanish. Now the Revenant swaps to Ventari: you see the tablet appear and you know where he is, but then the tablet moves. Did he move it over to the Mesmer? Did he just move it to empty space? You don’t know, and you just lost your tag on the Revenant himself. Alternatively, if it stayed where it was, are you going to hit anything if you hit that area? For all you know, the Revenant moved away and is stockpiling energy for weapon skills, not bothering with any Ventari skills at all.

Ventari Revenants that have party members stealthing them have mind games they can play, regardless of how the tablet gets summoned. My proposal lets them access truly instant cleansing or projectile protection for themselves, however, the value of which can’t be overstated.

My proposal also means that you don’t effectively enter Ventari with only 40 energy compared to any other legend.

The wiki is wrong. It is actually 1/4 of a second to tell it to appear, and 1/4 of a second to tell it to move. It can take as much as 1/2 of a second or more to move to the area.

Consider the following: you are facing a revenant and a mesmer. You are any profession that can summon aoes at locations. Depending on your class you could put a poison field at that location. Or wells. Or all sorts of harmful things. There is a reason why minipets are not used in wvw zergs.

Its not only about using energy while stealthed, thought you can for skills like the facets. The issue is that a common zerg v zerg situation is now made more complicated.

You blast for the zerg, then go into stealth, and now have to deal with the awkward positioning of tablet.

Also remember that is ventari we are talking about. “My proposal lets them access truly instant cleansing or projectile protection for themselves, however, the value of which can’t be overstated.” Such an idea would be foreign to him. Any way to protect allies faster would be more important than achieving an instant result for himself.

Revenants will always swap with 50% energy. And you have convinced me that the summoning of the tablet should be instant. But I don’t think they should remove the aspect of choice to whether or not you use this mechanic.

If the summon becomes instant cast does it matter if it automatically happens as you swap legends? Or do you also want it to not cost any energy? Because based on the way the skills cooldown operate now I can assume a few things.

We can see that even with the -10 energy of summoning one can still perform purifying essences three times in a row. As well as natural harmony three times in a row. When you start with 50 energy you can instead perform each of these skills 5 times in a row.

For the condi removal that would be removal 3 conditions every 5 seconds for 15 seconds, or removing 3 every 5 for 25 seconds. They did say they wanted the revenant weak to conditions.

For the heal it would be the difference between 3000 hps for 6 seconds, or 3000 hps for 10 seconds. Or a difference between a 18,000 heal and a 30,000 heal. Since they just mentioned the revenant is suppose to be sustain, I think this is the area we can blame for why it cost energy to summon the tablet.

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

At this point would it be better to not have an argument between two people on the public forums…?

And no point was it stated that this was anything other than a conversation topic brought up during the discussion of ventari. As another person has already done, you are welcome to join the conversation.

Either way it is important for the revenant community to come to a consensus on what we should ask the developers for. Neither myself, and I would hope neither you or the forum goer I have been discussing this with, would want the developers to blindly change aspects of the class.

Just because you don’t find relevance to the discussion doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be happening in a public forum.

It is nice to have a civil argument.

The main thing I want to get rid of on Ventari is the time and energy tax to use the legend skills. You effectively enter Ventari with only 40 energy, since you have to use 10 to summon the tablet. You also pay in time before you can use any of the skills. Considering how overall one-dimensional this set is, it really is frustrating to be the only one with the tax.

Having the tablet instant-summon at your location when you swap is the simplest way to solve this, but I can see other options being possible solutions.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It is nice to have a civil argument.

The main thing I want to get rid of on Ventari is the time and energy tax to use the legend skills. You effectively enter Ventari with only 40 energy, since you have to use 10 to summon the tablet. You also pay in time before you can use any of the skills. Considering how overall one-dimensional this set is, it really is frustrating to be the only one with the tax.

Having the tablet instant-summon at your location when you swap is the simplest way to solve this, but I can see other options being possible solutions.

.

How about if the summoning of the tablet is instant and uses no energy?

This way no matter if you are close or far. You can give instant support.

I think the last thing they want is telling people if they don’t use invocation then any hard stun will lock them out if they switch to use their spec.

Imagine how absolutely cool it would be if you were falling and you swapped in the air and summoned the tablet before you hit the ground. Getting out a 6 K heal to someone who would have died when they hit the ground.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It is nice to have a civil argument.

The main thing I want to get rid of on Ventari is the time and energy tax to use the legend skills. You effectively enter Ventari with only 40 energy, since you have to use 10 to summon the tablet. You also pay in time before you can use any of the skills. Considering how overall one-dimensional this set is, it really is frustrating to be the only one with the tax.

Having the tablet instant-summon at your location when you swap is the simplest way to solve this, but I can see other options being possible solutions.

.

How about if the summoning of the tablet is instant and uses no energy?

This way no matter if you are close or far. You can give instant support.

I think the last thing they want is telling people if they don’t use invocation then any hard stun will lock them out if they switch to use their spec.

Imagine how absolutely cool it would be if you were falling and you swapped in the air and summoned the tablet before you hit the ground. Getting out a 6 K heal to someone who would have died when they hit the ground.

Would probably be the best course of action. I wonder if they could code it so the first summon after swapping to Ventari was instant and free, but if you used your elite and/or strayed too far from the tablet it still had the cast time and energy cost?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It is nice to have a civil argument.

The main thing I want to get rid of on Ventari is the time and energy tax to use the legend skills. You effectively enter Ventari with only 40 energy, since you have to use 10 to summon the tablet. You also pay in time before you can use any of the skills. Considering how overall one-dimensional this set is, it really is frustrating to be the only one with the tax.

Having the tablet instant-summon at your location when you swap is the simplest way to solve this, but I can see other options being possible solutions.

.

How about if the summoning of the tablet is instant and uses no energy?

This way no matter if you are close or far. You can give instant support.

I think the last thing they want is telling people if they don’t use invocation then any hard stun will lock them out if they switch to use their spec.

Imagine how absolutely cool it would be if you were falling and you swapped in the air and summoned the tablet before you hit the ground. Getting out a 6 K heal to someone who would have died when they hit the ground.

Would probably be the best course of action. I wonder if they could code it so the first summon after swapping to Ventari was instant and free, but if you used your elite and/or strayed too far from the tablet it still had the cast time and energy cost?

Perhaps. I would just remove that cast and cost on the summon whenever it summoned. Because you aren’t fully using ventari’s powers until the summon has occurred. Therefore why would you be using energy. And no one wants to rely on invocation. Swapping to a spec means you should be able to use that spec.

If they want to be radical. Remove all cast times except for the elite. Make it so ventari only is hurt by cc when it is trying to be offensive. But I get them putting a casting time on movement.

The Thing that Ventari has is the single best Projectile Denial in the whole game by a large margin. The only Thing matching it’s Duration is Shield of the Avenger and that is unreliable and not an constant Bubble.

Ventari will trump in Projectile heavy Environments while the Druid will be better everywhere where no/few Projectiles are flying around.

Ventari will make the Shaman Fractal a cakewalk, while the Druid will struggle with his 5s thin line against the 100 Elementals throwing Projectiles from every angle.