Guild Wars 2

well i also run some numbers for a cleric’s build and holy skritt is massive…can’t wait to test it in raids, hoping to be competitive in the role (i mained a cleric in aion for 2 years…missing the feeling of having everybody’s live responsability a bit )

uhm, I’m not sure if the scaling is right, but I had full cleric gear and my tablet #6 only did 1500 heal.

After testing both, Ventari seems really weak compared to druid. the form lasts a lot of time (around 20s) and it doesn’t take long to actually load up. Also druid can heal pretty well outside of it.

gannondorf.7628:

None. But revenant wasn’t designed for being good to something but for touch to all= Jack of all trades. Others classes do better that revenant but can"t be versatile like the revenant is.

You mean like elementalists ?

I’m kind of wondering if ventari is worth it at all. The area of effect is so small its almost worth it just to keep regeneration on glint up. Ran with clerics was ticking 500+ hp/s with perma regen plus my normal damage rotation wasn’t really hindered at all. Threw in a mace for might stacking and seemed to be good. Not as pure healing as druid but felt very very useful in a group setting.

Ok, time to gravedig this thread.

It takes 3 seconds to build cele form from 0 to 100% and it lasts 20 seconds.
So yeah, basically 87% uptime.

You only need to cast Staff #1 and #2 on a group. Done, full cele avatar. It actually takes a bit less then 3 seconds.

So yeah, you can basically heal twice as Cleric Ventari but with Celestial gear.

And it’s not burst heal, that’s sustained heal. Come on, 2 attacks to full it up.
Tested with celestial druid.

Screens:

Ventari is really bad compared to Druid… I hate to say it. Herald makes up for it a TINY bit, but Ventari is just bad… the energy consumption, the general lack of impactful healing and difficult to use, its just not worth it…

I played Druid and I couldn’t believe how much I felt like I could actually keep people alive. It’s so straight forward too, use this heal in this area. Done.

Ventari on the other hand is so clunky. My focus on the first couple BWEs was not healing it was on other things I feel I will use more often. This BWE I wanted to compare Druid to Ventari and it’s not even close. Druid is practically full time Celestial Form if they want to, it would have to be nerfed so hard to actually be burst healing I don’t see that happening. Even if it did happen Ventari just doesn’t feel fun.

As someone who mains an Engineer I am getting a pretty big Med Kit vibe from Ventari to be honest. That’s not a good thing.Trying to make the tablet fly through my friendlies is asinine, just like throwing Med Kit stim packs is. I’m worried Ventari is meant to be that heavy support role but it’s going to see just about the same amount of use as a Med Kit Engi (hint: none).

EDIT: I realize my feedback might not be that constructive and helpful so let me try to fix that.

1. The tablet is very clunky. To resolve this I think the tablet should not need to pass through allies to heal them. It should apply its heal in AOE when it reaches its destination. This way we can still aim it to certain areas but we’re doing just that: aiming to areas not players as they move and dodge around.

2. Protective Solace is great.

3. When Druid can drop thousands upon thousands of heals in AOE consistently, Natural Harmony starts to not look good. I would greatly increase this heal. I think the delay is okay. Until it causes my raid to wipe, then I will be sad.

4. I think Purifying Essence should heal more per condition removed or apply resistance or something else to make it more rewarding to use. I would rather see resistance than just more healing per condition because it would make the skill a little more unique. Everyone can remove conditions and spit out small heals that won’t really save you, but not everyone can apply resistance.

5. I don’t like the healing fragments because it feels like Med Kit again. It’s the same idea here for me. The wrong person might pick them up, they might expire before the person who needs them can get to them, they might go completely unnoticed in combat, etc. Many problems. I would like to keep what I think are great visuals for this skill but just turn them into ground AOE pulsing heal fragments. Of course healing amount would need to be balanced per tick, but this is the elite skill that destroys the tablet and uses 35 energy. It should heal a lot and players should feel like they want to run and be healed by them. I think base 800 per second for 5 seconds would be good.

First of all, Revenant is my favourite class and by far the best class, but this has to be addressed before HoT for the sake of the game, not of the Revenant.

I could understand ventari/guardian being so harder and so inferior if Celestial Avatar took like 20+ seconds to load up, but lol, it took me 3 seconds solo in celestial gear. What the heck.

You can basically stay in celestial avatar all the time and crap all over every other healer classes in the game.

In FULL ascended clericgear, my ventari revenant was so inferior to my exotic celestial Druid, there is no comparison. In healing in boons and in damage, since if I heal I can’t do damage on Revenant, but druid always has the pet.
Boons? The amount of boons that Druid can give is huge. To give boons with herald you need to swap out of ventari and STOP HEALING (or use F2…), while Druid can just use warhorn and spirits, even the elite on for aoe raise and the small one for might and protection, permanent AND while still healing. Basically the only things you can give with Ventari are regen in a very small area and protection if you trait heal skill but only for a small amount of time and in a small area around you.

Also ventari/guardain forces you to stay melee range on close to your allies to heal, while druid can do it ranged and with no risk.

So it’s better for boons, easier to use, better for healing and IT’S NOT BURST. It’s sustained burst.

Constructive feedback after my little rant:

1. increase the amount of time it takes to build up celestial avatar. Come on, 3 seconds, it should be AT LEAST 10 minumum. Hard capped if needed (easy mode: cooldown on celestial avatar skill).
2. reduce the ridiculous amount of daze and heal that it does. Lunar Impact is one of the most op skills in the game, even untraited.
3. Increase ventari healing by 50% to make up for the clunkiness. Or reduce the clunkiness speeding up its movement and reducing #6 aftercast.
4. healing fragments expire too quickly and are unreliable. They’re either hard to notice or annoying in a raid fight.

If someone is wondering about 1v1 uptime of Celestial Avatar on our leafy friend: https://youtu.be/N--gCdjIMTI . It scales with number of allies, up to the point that half of your AA cast gives you Avatar back.

Oh and enetering Avatar can fully cleanse you. No CD.

I played both V/G and Druid in PvP and on the preview boss. There’s a major difference. Basically, you can work your kitten off with perfect rotations, perfect Tablet movement and Energy management when using traits like Shrouding Mists while doing DPS in melee…

Or you can stand back autoattacking with Staff, enter Avatar whenever you desire, randomly press any Celestial skill besides #5 (which sucks) and do three times more healing (which fact you can perfectly see by comparing the numbers achieved from statistics at tye end of PvP match).

And we really have to focus at Ventari. Utility avalible to Glint is no argument, since every Revenant, be it DPS, Tank or Condi, can offer exactly the same support on Glint (maybe apart from very beefy Regeneration).

Both Ventari and Druid need some work, although couple recent additions made Ventari slightly better – Like I predicted, the Elite is very good nos.. More about BWE3 Ventari coming in my thread.

This absolutely needs to be addressed. Even if druid is toned down at the base level, it will still far outshine anything ventari can hope to achieve in its current state. The idea that druid is “bursty” healing is absolutely laughable, considering they can nearly stay in the celestial form kitten near permanently. All that talk earlier about druid and ventari complimenting eachother? Not even close. My hopes of running a ventari revenant in raid content is probably going to be met with getting booted from squads because I’m not a druid.
Now I do think druid should have to work harder to fill that bar, and I appreciate the balance they’re enacting but really. Roy.
Roy.

You were way too conservative with Ventari.

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

BlackDevil.9268:

Apart from better survivability and more boons-support oriënted in combination with a significant healing output to druid? Nah, probably it can’t.

Where’s those imaginary group boons from Druid?
It doesn’t exist you know? They come from ranger spec not Druid.

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

arkealia.2713:

Ventari has a 20s projectile block.

Yeah, and druid turns projectiles into healing.

For 5 seconds with a 25 sec CD.

What a joke zzzz..

Revenant is infinitely better in projectile denial than Druid. One hammer can do the job. You don’t even need to be Ventari.

Varezenem.2813:

My overall impression of it is the following.
Druid:

• Better burst
• More self heal
• More control
• Sacrifices less damage
• More condi cleanse
• Better Mobility

Herald (Ventari/Glint):

• Better sustain Healing
• Far more damage reduction around 54%-74% by itself compared to 48% (both with protection and clerics).
• Better projectile hate
• More party wide boon upkeep (perma protection, swiftness, fury, regen)
• More blocks/invulnerability

However Roy I do have to agree with the feedback on other topics. To make ventari more competitive it needs to lose that cast time on tablet movement and increase its speed and range a bit too (to 1200-1500).

You forgot to mention much higher dps when using a sword.

Even hammer does more damage than LB now.

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

No one wants Ventari to be better than druid, just want it to be VIABLE at all. As it stands you’re crippling yourself and the group by using it.
Does glint/ventari offer boons? yeah sure but not at the same time as heals! 500-600 ticking regen is nice, real nice, but means little when you really cant make use of it at the same time as main healing.

The entire reason that ventari was kept under the bar was because it was supposed to be more drawn out sustained healing, but as it currently is, druid is able to maintain its burst healing over a sustained period. That completely overshadows ventari’s capabilities.

You shouldent be looking at it as “oh you want this single legend to be as good as an entire elite” because what you REALLY should take out of this is “I want my support focused build to be as viable as that elite, which is also running a support build” Legend shmegend, this is about slotting yourself into a specific build and role.

Aomine.5012:

Varezenem.2813:

My overall impression of it is the following.
Druid:

• Better burst
• More self heal
• More control
• Sacrifices less damage
• More condi cleanse
• Better Mobility

Herald (Ventari/Glint):

• Better sustain Healing
• Far more damage reduction around 54%-74% by itself compared to 48% (both with protection and clerics).
• Better projectile hate
• More party wide boon upkeep (perma protection, swiftness, fury, regen)
• More blocks/invulnerability

However Roy I do have to agree with the feedback on other topics. To make ventari more competitive it needs to lose that cast time on tablet movement and increase its speed and range a bit too (to 1200-1500).

You forgot to mention much higher dps when using a sword.

Even hammer does more damage than LB now.

I too throw random things into a discussion and hope they are relevant.

Funny thing though.
how does that smoke scale do again?

Aomine.5012:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

arkealia.2713:

Ventari has a 20s projectile block.

Yeah, and druid turns projectiles into healing.

For 5 seconds with a 25 sec CD.

What a joke zzzz..

Revenant is infinitely better in projectile denial than Druid. One hammer can do the job. You don’t even need to be Ventari.

This is true.
As far as projectile reflection Revenant has more tools…
To bad that reflect is tied to a horrible legend that is outshined by Druid in almost every way.

Aomine.5012:

BlackDevil.9268:

Apart from better survivability and more boons-support oriënted in combination with a significant healing output to druid? Nah, probably it can’t.

Where’s those imaginary group boons from Druid?
It doesn’t exist you know? They come from ranger spec not Druid.

I could have sworn I was getting a lot of regen and swiftness from a ranger.
Maybe I was imagining things from all the healing it was throwing out like candy.

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

You seem to have missed the part where Druid was supposed to be about burst healing and right now its doing sustain AND burst healing.
But since you missed it, I’ll post a quote from the Dev in the ranger forum.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Celestial Avatar healing is the best available by a decent margin right now.

Druid has the BEST healing in the game
Period.
No other class or spec made for support got close to the Druids healing capability.

That’s why it’s on the chopping block.

Have fun.

Projectile reflection does nothing in raid, and raid is everything that matters in pve.

It’s not just Ventari, but every healer in the game. What they said it’s “burst heal” through celestial avatar, is in fact a sustained burst heal since you can stay in celestial avatar 87% of the time and blindly spam heals on the group without any care.

Short cds, no locks, no energy involved. Just spam heals like no tomorrow.

Druid will make any other healing spec useless.
It should be nerfed and other specs buffed. Not flat, but based on healing power. Healing power must be useful.

I’d like Ventari and druid to suck at 0 healing power and do as good as druid does now at 1500 healing power.

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Varezenem.2813:

My overall impression of it is the following.
Druid:

• Better burst
• More self heal
• More control
• Sacrifices less damage
• More condi cleanse
• Better Mobility

Herald (Ventari/Glint):

• Better sustain Healing
• Far more damage reduction around 54%-74% by itself compared to 48% (both with protection and clerics).
• Better projectile hate
• More party wide boon upkeep (perma protection, swiftness, fury, regen)
• More blocks/invulnerability

However Roy I do have to agree with the feedback on other topics. To make ventari more competitive it needs to lose that cast time on tablet movement and increase its speed and range a bit too (to 1200-1500).

You forgot to mention much higher dps when using a sword.

Even hammer does more damage than LB now.

I too throw random things into a discussion and hope they are relevant.

Funny thing though.
how does that smoke scale do again?

Smokescale will 100% get a patched. There’s nothing to argue, it’s obvious.

No-one defend its damage, even other rangers notice this imbalance.

You shouldn’t use a broken thing that Anet already know, and do not allow them to be used in PVP in BWE3 in the first place, as a counter-argument. It’s pointless.

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

arkealia.2713:

Ventari has a 20s projectile block.

Yeah, and druid turns projectiles into healing.

For 5 seconds with a 25 sec CD.

What a joke zzzz..

Revenant is infinitely better in projectile denial than Druid. One hammer can do the job. You don’t even need to be Ventari.

This is true.
As far as projectile reflection Revenant has more tools…
To bad that reflect is tied to a horrible legend that is outshined by Druid in almost every way.

Aomine.5012:

BlackDevil.9268:

Apart from better survivability and more boons-support oriënted in combination with a significant healing output to druid? Nah, probably it can’t.

Where’s those imaginary group boons from Druid?
It doesn’t exist you know? They come from ranger spec not Druid.

I could have sworn I was getting a lot of regen and swiftness from a ranger.
Maybe I was imagining things from all the healing it was throwing out like candy.

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

You seem to have missed the part where Druid was supposed to be about burst healing and right now its doing sustain AND burst healing.
But since you missed it, I’ll post a quote from the Dev in the ranger forum.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Celestial Avatar healing is the best available by a decent margin right now.

Druid has the BEST healing in the game
Period.
No other class or spec made for support got close to the Druids healing capability.

That’s why it’s on the chopping block.

Have fun.

Irene did point out they’re going to nerf Druid’s base healing down to ground if without healing power lol.

Then Druid will be a utter crap heal-bot that has no boons and hit like wet-noodle if they want to be a healer.

You can have fun go play your Druid if you think Druid is so much better than Revenant. But I know you wouldn’t do that because both me and you know that Revenant is a much better class than Druid ever could.

Kidel.2057:

Projectile reflection does nothing in raid, and raid is everything that matters in pve.

Kinda sad way of thinking lol..
HF spamming them endlessly.

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

No one wants Ventari to be better than druid, just want it to be VIABLE at all. As it stands you’re crippling yourself and the group by using it.
Does glint/ventari offer boons? yeah sure but not at the same time as heals! 500-600 ticking regen is nice, real nice, but means little when you really cant make use of it at the same time as main healing.

The entire reason that ventari was kept under the bar was because it was supposed to be more drawn out sustained healing, but as it currently is, druid is able to maintain its burst healing over a sustained period. That completely overshadows ventari’s capabilities.

You shouldent be looking at it as “oh you want this single legend to be as good as an entire elite” because what you REALLY should take out of this is “I want my support focused build to be as viable as that elite, which is also running a support build” Legend shmegend, this is about slotting yourself into a specific build and role.

But this is wrong.

Warning all numbers were rounded after calculating to the nearest hundred.

Ventari heals 2000ish per second and can sustain it indefinitely. It can burst to 3000ish per second.

Druid can burst to 4,500 per second for only 3 second every 8 seconds. But then can only sustain 1000 per second while it waits on cds and both of these are only in avatar form.

Over 8.5 seconds a ventari had healed between 17,000 and 25,500 health.

A Druid would heal 20,700 health over 8.5 seconds with 15,700 of it coming in the first 3.5 second.

For burst damage Druid is the superior healer, for sustained damage Ventari is the superior healer.

You would never use a Druid to provide healing for a rammer under arrow cart fire because the form heal peaks after 3.5 seconds and they have no means of applying perma protection to rammers.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

No one wants Ventari to be better than druid, just want it to be VIABLE at all. As it stands you’re crippling yourself and the group by using it.
Does glint/ventari offer boons? yeah sure but not at the same time as heals! 500-600 ticking regen is nice, real nice, but means little when you really cant make use of it at the same time as main healing.

The entire reason that ventari was kept under the bar was because it was supposed to be more drawn out sustained healing, but as it currently is, druid is able to maintain its burst healing over a sustained period. That completely overshadows ventari’s capabilities.

You shouldent be looking at it as “oh you want this single legend to be as good as an entire elite” because what you REALLY should take out of this is “I want my support focused build to be as viable as that elite, which is also running a support build” Legend shmegend, this is about slotting yourself into a specific build and role.

But this is wrong.

Warning all numbers were rounded after calculating to the nearest hundred.

Ventari heals 2000ish per second and can sustain it indefinitely. It can burst to 3000ish per second.

Druid can burst to 4,500 per second for only 3 second every 8 seconds. But then can only sustain 1000 per second while it waits on cds and both of these are only in avatar form.

Over 8.5 seconds a ventari had healed between 17,000 and 25,500 health.

A Druid would heal 18,500 health over 8.5 seconds with 15,700 of it coming in the first 3.5 second.

For burst damage Druid is the superior healer, for sustained damage Ventari is the superior healer.

You would never use a Druid to provide healing for a rammer under arrow cart fire because the form heal peaks after 3.5 seconds and they have no means of applying perma protection to rammers.

Are you taking into consideration the 20% healing buff druid stacks from auto attacking near allies?
Plus the added waterfield combo

Edit: Sorry – with the glyph its an added 45% healing buff

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

No one wants Ventari to be better than druid, just want it to be VIABLE at all. As it stands you’re crippling yourself and the group by using it.
Does glint/ventari offer boons? yeah sure but not at the same time as heals! 500-600 ticking regen is nice, real nice, but means little when you really cant make use of it at the same time as main healing.

The entire reason that ventari was kept under the bar was because it was supposed to be more drawn out sustained healing, but as it currently is, druid is able to maintain its burst healing over a sustained period. That completely overshadows ventari’s capabilities.

You shouldent be looking at it as “oh you want this single legend to be as good as an entire elite” because what you REALLY should take out of this is “I want my support focused build to be as viable as that elite, which is also running a support build” Legend shmegend, this is about slotting yourself into a specific build and role.

But this is wrong.

Warning all numbers were rounded after calculating to the nearest hundred.

Ventari heals 2000ish per second and can sustain it indefinitely. It can burst to 3000ish per second.

Druid can burst to 4,500 per second for only 3.5 second every 8.5 seconds. But then can only sustain 1000 per second while it waits on cds and both of these are only in avatar form.

Over 8.5 seconds a ventari had healed between 17,000 and 25,500 health.

A Druid would heal 20,700 health over 8.5 seconds with 15,700 of it coming in the first 3.5 second.

For burst damage Druid is the superior healer, for sustained damage Ventari is the superior healer.

You would never use a Druid to provide healing for a rammer under arrow cart fire because the form heal peaks after 3.5 seconds and they have no means of applying perma protection to rammers.

Are you taking into consideration the 20% healing buff druid stacks from auto attacking near allies?
Plus the added waterfield combo

Edit: Sorry – with the glyph its an added 45% healing buff

Yes I am considering these things. Even giving the benefit of the doubt given that a Druid can only self blast water fields in avatar state with clarion bond. I assume at some point lunar impact will give one blast to rejuvenating tides.

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can.

I do however include the twenty percent from natural mender.

I will edit some of the math in a second to clarify a mistake I did make though.
Edit:

Over 8.5 seconds a ventari had healed between 17,000 and 25,500 health.
A Druid would heal 25700 health over 8.5 seconds with 15,700 of it coming in the first 3.5 second.

I made the mistake of thinking cosmic ray had a 1 second cast time. From what it looks like avatar state can only be maintained for 16 seconds. So you would only get to once fully, and the second time you would lose the 10k from spamming cosmic ray.

This means druid is better than my initial calculations but still not superior.
Because when druids leave avatar form their sustained hps drops down to 500 or less.

So when you expand to figure in avatar forms inherent cooldown you get a timeline of the 8.5 intial chain, followed by a second 3.5 second burst, followed by 7 seconds of 500 hps. This is a 19 second duration.

Roughly equivalent given the number of rounding errors I probably have.
Over 19 seconds ventari will heal at maximum 44,000
Over 19 seconds druid will heal near maximum: 44900

To sustain their dps ventari have to spam Ventari’s Will. As a result they never game more than 1.25 energy in the 1/4 second that it has a casting time. This means upon switching into the legend the max a ventari could spam that skill and natural harmony would be. 40-10-20+10-20 Twice, and then the ventari would have to wait 18 seconds to even cast it again, not to mention they now have to lose 2 seconds worth of enhanced hps just to come back from zero energy and start using Ventari’s Will again.

_srry work in progress.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

No one wants Ventari to be better than druid, just want it to be VIABLE at all. As it stands you’re crippling yourself and the group by using it.
Does glint/ventari offer boons? yeah sure but not at the same time as heals! 500-600 ticking regen is nice, real nice, but means little when you really cant make use of it at the same time as main healing.

The entire reason that ventari was kept under the bar was because it was supposed to be more drawn out sustained healing, but as it currently is, druid is able to maintain its burst healing over a sustained period. That completely overshadows ventari’s capabilities.

You shouldent be looking at it as “oh you want this single legend to be as good as an entire elite” because what you REALLY should take out of this is “I want my support focused build to be as viable as that elite, which is also running a support build” Legend shmegend, this is about slotting yourself into a specific build and role.

But this is wrong.

Warning all numbers were rounded after calculating to the nearest hundred.

Ventari heals 2000ish per second and can sustain it indefinitely. It can burst to 3000ish per second.

Druid can burst to 4,500 per second for only 3 second every 8 seconds. But then can only sustain 1000 per second while it waits on cds and both of these are only in avatar form.

Over 8.5 seconds a ventari had healed between 17,000 and 25,500 health.

A Druid would heal 18,500 health over 8.5 seconds with 15,700 of it coming in the first 3.5 second.

For burst damage Druid is the superior healer, for sustained damage Ventari is the superior healer.

You would never use a Druid to provide healing for a rammer under arrow cart fire because the form heal peaks after 3.5 seconds and they have no means of applying perma protection to rammers.

Are you taking into consideration the 20% healing buff druid stacks from auto attacking near allies?
Plus the added waterfield combo

Edit: Sorry – with the glyph its an added 45% healing buff

Yes I am considering these things. Even giving the benefit of the doubt given that a Druid can only self blast water fields in avatar state with clarion bond. I assume at some point lunar impact will give one blast to rejuvenating tides.

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can.

I do however include the twenty percent from natural mender.

I will edit some of the math in a second to clarify a mistake I did make though.

Need to keep in mind how easy avatar is to build up, though. All of the avatar skills are low CD and it itself is extremely easy to build up in any situation you would need a healer in.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

I think the other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of druids sustain an healing applies very well to itself. Ventari has a lot of trouble keeping itself alive. Its the difference between pumping out 5.5k heals on allies and 3k heals on yourself. Druid in its current state could have really ridiculous self sustain, which is the reason they pumped so much of ventari’s healing through an outgoing only filter to keep them from being sustainy. Would like to see druid have access to increasing its outgoing healing rather than just flat buffs to healing.

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Oh you’re still here…

Great I can point out a little bit of your flawed argument.

- Boons-
The revenant has great Access to part wide boons in two legends
Jalis with party wide stability

And Glint
- giving party wide prot-might-swiftness- and fury

This is great for the Rev BUT

To have access to these You are giving up something as far as
A trait line
AND
A weapon set-

It could be argued that druid also gives up a trait line for druid
So I will most definitely concede that point HOWEVER

To have access to party wide boons -
You wont be healing-

Your sustained healing goes to 0
A druid STILL can heal through the build up or use of Celestial avatar form-
Staff-utilities- AS WELL AS trait’s and pet abilities and passive ally generated regen. ( not saying regen is good but when coupled with other healing sources it adds up).

For the best DPS-
Your not going to be specced into healing power.
Similair to the ranger-(and not I’ll link that dev quote in a second)

If you do not spec into a DPS trait line your DPS suffers
If you do not spec into DPS gear
Your dps suffers
This isn’t debatable in any form.

Though unlike the Ranger-
The revenant doesn’t have an extended form of itself tossing out high damage.

You can say the devs will do something about pet’s but seeing as how they couldn’t be used in a pvp environment because reasons. I doubt they even know OR have a clue as to how much DPS these little monsters can actually do in a competitive environment.

Let’s say everyone had my experience and got celestial form every 4 seconds.

Every 4 seconds you can pump out massive party wide healing

While for a revenant-
If you are healing YOU ARE NOT sustaining party wide buffs to everyone and if you are sustaining party wide buffs YOU ARE NOT healing.
If you spec into DPS
YOU ARE NOT healing as effectively as you could or a ranger could- thus that argument is DOA

For the sake of though
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Link me the build where you have
Constant sustained healing
High DPS
and Constant sustained partywide boon generation.

And Then I will link you the build where the druid has
Constant healing
Near permanent access to group regen and swiftness
And thanks to your new pets
Constant DPS

Aomine.5012:

Kidel.2057:

Projectile reflection does nothing in raid, and raid is everything that matters in pve.

Kinda sad way of thinking lol..
HF spamming them endlessly.

Whatever. Does it really matter when aura tempest can keep aoe magnetic aura up all time?

And By the way, currently Rangers can do like 10 times the condi dps of a Revenant. So they’re better at healing, ranged dps, condi dps.
But that doesn’t matter at all.

I don’t care if Ranger is better then Revenant at everything,* I don’t even care if it’s better then everything at something.*

What bugs me is that Druid is the better healing by far then every other class.
Again, not just better, but better by far.

At the beginning of this thread I was just worried Druid could be far better, now we just know it. We just didn’t know how ofter Celestial Avatar could be spammed.
Roy then said it was more like a burst and you had to load it up slowly.

Now, is 3 seconds with no cd “slow” to you?

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Because you missed this-

Apparently
I’ll even bold the things you missed

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

There’ll be more supportive damage for Celestial Avatar by launch… possibly from trait modifications or from skill changes.

An issue which should not be decoupled here is that Celestial Avatar felt gated behind staff use (and troll unguent), which left a ranger with one damage-focused weapon option and one support weapon. I’m making some changes to astral force rate gain to try to address this. Ideally it should be possible to build up your astral force without -needing- to run staff, but running staff should speed up the process by nature of the heals it provides. This would yield the option of running two non-staff weapons while still having Celestial Avatar available.

Celestial Avatar healing is the best available by a decent margin right now.

that means better than engi-better than guard-better than rev-and better than Ele

One issue that came up is that the healing coefficients are so insignificant that running with healing stats yields very little reward.

The best healing in the game being available without using any healing power; this is not good for the game.

This means you didn’t have to spec into healing, and you would have the best available healing when compared to people that built similarly

The berserker meta not be the only consideration requires that other stat combinations be rewarding.

Being able to run two more damage-focused weapons (if that’s your thing) and still have Celestial Avatar available should address some of your offensive concerns if you want to play a bit more offensively as a hybrid. If you want to focus on being the top offense then you probably shouldn’t be selecting the Druid specialization.

That’s all I’m going to say on the subject for now (though I will continue to read constructive feedback here and elsewhere) as there is plenty to be done in order to address these and other issues. /me ducks back to work on Scrapper and Druid.

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Oh you’re still here…

Great I can point out a little bit of your flawed argument.

- Boons-
The revenant has great Access to part wide boons in two legends
Jalis with party wide stability

And Glint
- giving party wide prot-might-swiftness- and fury

This is great for the Rev BUT

To have access to these You are giving up something as far as
A trait line
AND
A weapon set-

It could be argued that druid also gives up a trait line for druid
So I will most definitely concede that point HOWEVER

To have access to party wide boons -
You wont be healing-

Your sustained healing goes to 0
A druid STILL can heal through the build up or use of Celestial avatar form-
Staff-utilities- AS WELL AS trait’s and pet abilities and passive ally generated regen. ( not saying regen is good but when coupled with other healing sources it adds up).

For the best DPS-
Your not going to be specced into healing power.
Similair to the ranger-(and not I’ll link that dev quote in a second)

If you do not spec into a DPS trait line your DPS suffers
If you do not spec into DPS gear
Your dps suffers
This isn’t debatable in any form.

Though unlike the Ranger-
The revenant doesn’t have an extended form of itself tossing out high damage.

You can say the devs will do something about pet’s but seeing as how they couldn’t be used in a pvp environment because reasons. I doubt they even know OR have a clue as to how much DPS these little monsters can actually do in a competitive environment.

Let’s say everyone had my experience and got celestial form every 4 seconds.

Every 4 seconds you can pump out massive party wide healing

While for a revenant-
If you are healing YOU ARE NOT sustaining party wide buffs to everyone and if you are sustaining party wide buffs YOU ARE NOT healing.
If you spec into DPS
YOU ARE NOT healing as effectively as you could or a ranger could- thus that argument is DOA

For the sake of though
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Link me the build where you have
Constant sustained healing
High DPS
and Constant sustained partywide boon generation.

And Then I will link you the build where the druid has
Constant healing
Near permanent access to group regen and swiftness
And thanks to your new pets
Constant DPS

Friendly note, when in CA form, Druid’s dps is 0.
In Ventari you keep all the weapon’s dps.
Friendly note, they’re going to nerf CA base heal coefficient.

Well, in the end, you’d still think Revenant a better class and choose to play it right?
At least I’d be doing so. Gl with all the Druid thingy.

Btw, I read ranger’s forum constantly, so I didn’t miss anything. They’re going to nerf the base heal, so no matter how they try to improve weapon’s CA generate ability, if you do no damage (forced to pick healing trait), then it serves no point.

Kidel.2057:

Aomine.5012:

Kidel.2057:

Projectile reflection does nothing in raid, and raid is everything that matters in pve.

Kinda sad way of thinking lol..
HF spamming them endlessly.

Whatever. Does it really matter when aura tempest can keep aoe magnetic aura up all time?

And By the way, currently Rangers can do like 10 times the condi dps of a Revenant. So they’re better at healing, ranged dps, condi dps.
But that doesn’t matter at all.

I don’t care if Ranger is better then Revenant at everything,* I don’t even care if it’s better then everything at something.*

What bugs me is that Druid is the better healing by far then every other class.
Again, not just better, but better by far.

At the beginning of this thread I was just worried Druid could be far better, now we just know it. We just didn’t know how ofter Celestial Avatar could be spammed.
Roy then said it was more like a burst and you had to load it up slowly.

Now, is 3 seconds with no cd “slow” to you?

10 times condition where?

Druid’s skills ha no condition at all.

Traps? You sacrifice all utilities for traps, meaning your support gets way lower.

Torch? You sacrifice warhorn and miss the group buff and blast finisher for this (and you have to hold staff constantly)

Seriously, if you really think Druid is that good, you wouldn’t be posting here. You’d post in Druid’s forum. You will still play Revenant because you know it’s a better class.

You care because you want this Revenant to exceed everything Druid can do, on top of other things you have. ’

No matter how much you argue, your intention is clear. You want Revenant to be OP because you know it’s a better class and you want to play it. So do I.

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Oh you’re still here…

Great I can point out a little bit of your flawed argument.

- Boons-
The revenant has great Access to part wide boons in two legends
Jalis with party wide stability

And Glint
- giving party wide prot-might-swiftness- and fury

This is great for the Rev BUT

To have access to these You are giving up something as far as
A trait line
AND
A weapon set-

It could be argued that druid also gives up a trait line for druid
So I will most definitely concede that point HOWEVER

To have access to party wide boons -
You wont be healing-

Your sustained healing goes to 0
A druid STILL can heal through the build up or use of Celestial avatar form-
Staff-utilities- AS WELL AS trait’s and pet abilities and passive ally generated regen. ( not saying regen is good but when coupled with other healing sources it adds up).

For the best DPS-
Your not going to be specced into healing power.
Similair to the ranger-(and not I’ll link that dev quote in a second)

If you do not spec into a DPS trait line your DPS suffers
If you do not spec into DPS gear
Your dps suffers
This isn’t debatable in any form.

Though unlike the Ranger-
The revenant doesn’t have an extended form of itself tossing out high damage.

You can say the devs will do something about pet’s but seeing as how they couldn’t be used in a pvp environment because reasons. I doubt they even know OR have a clue as to how much DPS these little monsters can actually do in a competitive environment.

Let’s say everyone had my experience and got celestial form every 4 seconds.

Every 4 seconds you can pump out massive party wide healing

While for a revenant-
If you are healing YOU ARE NOT sustaining party wide buffs to everyone and if you are sustaining party wide buffs YOU ARE NOT healing.
If you spec into DPS
YOU ARE NOT healing as effectively as you could or a ranger could- thus that argument is DOA

For the sake of though
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Link me the build where you have
Constant sustained healing
High DPS
and Constant sustained partywide boon generation.

And Then I will link you the build where the druid has
Constant healing
Near permanent access to group regen and swiftness
And thanks to your new pets
Constant DPS

Friendly note, when in CA form, Druid’s dps is 0.

.

Did your pet die?

A ranger’s DPS will never reach 0 as long as the pet is alive and until they nerf the little monsters . You still have access to something that does decent damage.

Aomine.5012:

Kidel.2057:

Aomine.5012:

Kidel.2057:

Projectile reflection does nothing in raid, and raid is everything that matters in pve.

Kinda sad way of thinking lol..
HF spamming them endlessly.

Whatever. Does it really matter when aura tempest can keep aoe magnetic aura up all time?

And By the way, currently Rangers can do like 10 times the condi dps of a Revenant. So they’re better at healing, ranged dps, condi dps.
But that doesn’t matter at all.

I don’t care if Ranger is better then Revenant at everything,* I don’t even care if it’s better then everything at something.*

What bugs me is that Druid is the better healing by far then every other class.
Again, not just better, but better by far.

At the beginning of this thread I was just worried Druid could be far better, now we just know it. We just didn’t know how ofter Celestial Avatar could be spammed.
Roy then said it was more like a burst and you had to load it up slowly.

Now, is 3 seconds with no cd “slow” to you?

10 times condition where?

Druid’s skills ha no condition at all.

Traps? You sacrifice all utilities for traps, meaning your support gets way lower.

Torch? You sacrifice warhorn and miss the group buff and blast finisher for this (and you have to hold staff constantly)

Seriously, if you really thing Druid is that good, you wouldn’t be posting here. You’d post in Druid’s forum. You will still play Revenant because you know it’s a better class.

You care because you want this Revenant to exceed everything Druid can do, on top of other things you have.

I said “Ranger”, not “Druid”.
In case you missed, Druid is not a new class, but a Ranger spec.
You can’t do condi damage on Revenant by using Ventari. You spec into Mallyx/Corruption. Same with Ranger, of course.

Condi Ranger > Condi Revenant (by far atm)
Heraler Ranger (=Druid) > Ventari Revenant (by far atm)

Is that clear enough for you now?

And what reasoning is that? I do not play “the best class”. I would be main Ele by now lol.
I play the class I like and I want the game to be balanced.
Being forced to pick 1 Druid in each Raid encounter IS NOT HEALTHY for this game.

Ald let me repeat the question:
Now, is 3 seconds with no cd “slow” to you?
Is Druid burst healing or sustained burst healing? Because I’ve seen druid videos in rain, and they are in cele form all the time.

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Oh you’re still here…

Great I can point out a little bit of your flawed argument.

- Boons-
The revenant has great Access to part wide boons in two legends
Jalis with party wide stability

And Glint
- giving party wide prot-might-swiftness- and fury

This is great for the Rev BUT

To have access to these You are giving up something as far as
A trait line
AND
A weapon set-

It could be argued that druid also gives up a trait line for druid
So I will most definitely concede that point HOWEVER

To have access to party wide boons -
You wont be healing-

Your sustained healing goes to 0
A druid STILL can heal through the build up or use of Celestial avatar form-
Staff-utilities- AS WELL AS trait’s and pet abilities and passive ally generated regen. ( not saying regen is good but when coupled with other healing sources it adds up).

For the best DPS-
Your not going to be specced into healing power.
Similair to the ranger-(and not I’ll link that dev quote in a second)

If you do not spec into a DPS trait line your DPS suffers
If you do not spec into DPS gear
Your dps suffers
This isn’t debatable in any form.

Though unlike the Ranger-
The revenant doesn’t have an extended form of itself tossing out high damage.

You can say the devs will do something about pet’s but seeing as how they couldn’t be used in a pvp environment because reasons. I doubt they even know OR have a clue as to how much DPS these little monsters can actually do in a competitive environment.

Let’s say everyone had my experience and got celestial form every 4 seconds.

Every 4 seconds you can pump out massive party wide healing

While for a revenant-
If you are healing YOU ARE NOT sustaining party wide buffs to everyone and if you are sustaining party wide buffs YOU ARE NOT healing.
If you spec into DPS
YOU ARE NOT healing as effectively as you could or a ranger could- thus that argument is DOA

For the sake of though
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Link me the build where you have
Constant sustained healing
High DPS
and Constant sustained partywide boon generation.

And Then I will link you the build where the druid has
Constant healing
Near permanent access to group regen and swiftness
And thanks to your new pets
Constant DPS

Friendly note, when in CA form, Druid’s dps is 0.

.

Did your pet die?

A ranger’s DPS will never reach 0 as long as the pet is alive and until they nerf the little monsters . You still have access to something that does decent damage.

Aside from buggy smokescale that would 100% be patched, yes their dps is trash.

Kidel.2057:

Aomine.5012:

Kidel.2057:

Aomine.5012:

Kidel.2057:

Projectile reflection does nothing in raid, and raid is everything that matters in pve.

Kinda sad way of thinking lol..
HF spamming them endlessly.

Whatever. Does it really matter when aura tempest can keep aoe magnetic aura up all time?

And By the way, currently Rangers can do like 10 times the condi dps of a Revenant. So they’re better at healing, ranged dps, condi dps.
But that doesn’t matter at all.

I don’t care if Ranger is better then Revenant at everything,* I don’t even care if it’s better then everything at something.*

What bugs me is that Druid is the better healing by far then every other class.
Again, not just better, but better by far.

At the beginning of this thread I was just worried Druid could be far better, now we just know it. We just didn’t know how ofter Celestial Avatar could be spammed.
Roy then said it was more like a burst and you had to load it up slowly.

Now, is 3 seconds with no cd “slow” to you?

10 times condition where?

Druid’s skills ha no condition at all.

Traps? You sacrifice all utilities for traps, meaning your support gets way lower.

Torch? You sacrifice warhorn and miss the group buff and blast finisher for this (and you have to hold staff constantly)

Seriously, if you really thing Druid is that good, you wouldn’t be posting here. You’d post in Druid’s forum. You will still play Revenant because you know it’s a better class.

You care because you want this Revenant to exceed everything Druid can do, on top of other things you have.

I said “Ranger”, not “Druid”.
In case you missed, Druid is not a new class, but a Ranger spec.
You can’t do condi damage on Revenant by using Ventari. You spec into Mallyx/Corruption. Same with Ranger, of course.

Condi Ranger > Condi Revenant (by far atm)
Heraler Ranger (=Druid) > Ventari Revenant (by far atm)

Is that clear enough for you now?

You also can’t be a HEALER while keeping all the condition damage.
You spec for healing, spec for support utilities, using staff.
0 condition, 0 damage in CA. Period.

If you’re comparing to base ranger, then no, they don’t have the healing and cleanse to compete Ventari.

Or you’re talking about some imaginary 6 / 6 /6 /6 /6 /6 spec with all traits selected?

Btw Revenant would pretty much be on ANY raid team too. They may not be Ventari but they’d be here. Seriously can’t understand your concern. It’d be much more needed, and present much more.

Can you read?

Kidel.2057:

You can’t do condi damage on Revenant by using Ventari. You spec into Mallyx/Corruption. Same with Ranger, of course.

I’m not talking about Ranger doing condi damage with Druid spec, but about Rangers being able to be the second best condi dps in the game, 10 times better then the best condi Revenant build. And also Druid (with a different spec from condi Ranger, in case it’s not clear enough) being better then any other healer class in the entire game. With and without healing power.

And again, my point is not Druid > Ventari, but Druid = the only healer worth taking in a group.

Easier to use
Heals more
Heal is sustained AND burst

Kidel.2057:

Can you read?

Kidel.2057:

You can’t do condi damage on Revenant by using Ventari. You spec into Mallyx/Corruption. Same with Ranger, of course.

And again, my point is not Druid > Ventari, but Druid = the only healer worth taking in a group.

So you want Revenant to be the only healer that worth taking instead of Druid. (Because if Druid even fail in healing compare to Revenant, then it has no purpose to exist. It’d be always better to pick a Ventari Revenant)

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

Now we’d have great dps Revenant, healing revenant in every team now. Happy?

Oh, btw, I feel funny you mentioned condition ranger, even though Engi is a far better condition class compare to condition ranger. Why would anyone pick a condition ranger anyway?

Are you blinded by your rage or what?

I don’t care if Ranger is better then Revenant at everything, I don’t even care if it’s better then everything at something.
What bugs me is that Druid is the better healing by far then every other class.
Again, not just better, but better by far.

Druid can be the best healer. It’s an elite spec. I just don’t want it to be double as effective as any other class. The difference is just too huge.

Kidel.2057:

Are you blinded by your rage or what?

I don’t care if Ranger is better then Revenant at everything, I don’t even care if it’s better then everything at something.
What bugs me is that Druid is the better healing by far then every other class.
Again, not just better, but better by far.

Druid can be the best healer. It’s an elite spec. I just don’t want it to be double as effective as any other class. The difference is just too huge.

I do not have rage toward you or Ventari.
My rage is on Druid not Revenant, because it’s such a disappointment.

Go on enjoy that best healing while it lasts.

Aomine.5012:

Kidel.2057:

Are you blinded by your rage or what?

I don’t care if Ranger is better then Revenant at everything, I don’t even care if it’s better then everything at something.
What bugs me is that Druid is the better healing by far then every other class.
Again, not just better, but better by far.

Druid can be the best healer. It’s an elite spec. I just don’t want it to be double as effective as any other class. The difference is just too huge.

I do not have rage toward you or Ventari.
My rage is on Druid not Revenant, because it’s such a disappointment.

Go on enjoy that best healing while it lasts.

If you think Druid is disappointing then you were either especting a dps spec (called Druid? lol, this is not WoW, go read some GW lore) or you have no idea of what a Druid can do.

No wonder Druid was in every single group that beat the first raid boss.
That’s a fact.

Oh my god so many comments while i was fixing my math.

I would like some help with the calculations. Because from the ones I tried to correct it seems to imply that druid has the max sustained hps and the max burst hps of druid, around 44,000.

Simply spamming ventari’s will with proper traits gives an hps of 2000ish and perma protection. If you add in natural harmony you bump up to 4000 per second, just under the level that a druid maintains during their 3.5 seconds burst. However a druid can maintain this as long as they have energy to do both natural harmony and ventari’s will. It will take a druid at least 5 seconds to get into the form. It will take a ventari person -30+10 energy every time they want to do this burst.

This is important. Ventari can only autoattack, they cannot use any weapon energy or they will ruin things. And from 100 energy the most bursts you can do is 5, or 10 seconds of 4000 hps. That would beat out the druid if not for the fact that you then have to drop 2000 from your heal because you are at 0 energy at this point. After those 2 seconds you stay at 2000 hps and have to wait 18 seconds in between returning to 4000 hps.

So what do you prefer. Two instances 3.5 second instances of 4000 ish hps every 19 seconds. Or one 4000 ish hps for 10 seconds but you never can sustain that, and can only do one 4000 hps instance every 19 seconds.

Kidel.2057:

Aomine.5012:

Kidel.2057:

Are you blinded by your rage or what?

I don’t care if Ranger is better then Revenant at everything, I don’t even care if it’s better then everything at something.
What bugs me is that Druid is the better healing by far then every other class.
Again, not just better, but better by far.

Druid can be the best healer. It’s an elite spec. I just don’t want it to be double as effective as any other class. The difference is just too huge.

I do not have rage toward you or Ventari.
My rage is on Druid not Revenant, because it’s such a disappointment.

Go on enjoy that best healing while it lasts.

If you think Druid is disappointing then you were either especting a dps spec (called Druid? lol, this is not WoW, go read some GW lore) or you have no idea of what a Druid can do.

No wonder Druid was in every single group that beat the first raid boss.
That’s a fact.

Let’s see if this stay true after a month of HoT launched.
Beta of less than 2 days means so little.

People don’t play Ventari because everyone wants to be dps, so ofc they pick dps specs as Revenant.

@Daniel
It takes 2 seconds to load Celestial avatar in a group. There is footage for it. 3-4 seconds solo using pet.
Basically 87% uptime, and Druid can also heal outside Celestial Avatar and without “orbs” on ground, just by attacking.

@Aomine
Plenty of people here, me included, play Ventari. I even have a full healing power set prepped on my mule/bank and an ascended celestial Staff.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Oh my god so many comments while i was fixing my math.

I would like some help with the calculations. Because from the ones I tried to correct it seems to imply that druid has the max sustained hps and the max burst hps of druid, around 44,000.

Simply spamming ventari’s will with proper traits gives an hps of 2000ish and perma protection. If you add in natural harmony you bump up to 4000 per second, just under the level that a druid maintains during their 3.5 seconds burst. However a druid can maintain this as long as they have energy to do both natural harmony and ventari’s will. It will take a druid at least 5 seconds to get into the form. It will take a ventari person -30+10 energy every time they want to do this burst.

This is important. Ventari can only autoattack, they cannot use any weapon energy or they will ruin things. And from 100 energy the most bursts you can do is 5, or 10 seconds of 4000 hps. That would beat out the druid if not for the fact that you then have to drop 2000 from your heal because you are at 0 energy at this point. After those 2 seconds you stay at 2000 hps and have to wait 18 seconds in between returning to 4000 hps.

So what do you prefer. Two instances 3.5 second instances of 4000 ish hps every 19 seconds. Or one 4000 ish hps for 10 seconds but you never can sustain that, and can only do one 4000 hps instance every 19 seconds.

He prefers a straight buff of Ventari, like 50%, ofc. He just want his Revenant to fill every possible roles. Maybe one day if the condition and healing aspect of Revenant is buffed to the degree of condition Engi and healing Druid, we can one day see a 10 man Revenant team for raid, and Kidel will be dancing in joy.

Oh btw, Kidel, are you sure those teams that beat Raid doesn’t has Revenant and Ele in the Party?

@Aomine
Not as dedicated healers. 100% sure. No group closed beta raid without Druid as healer (and in berserker gear, lol). No group closed beta raid with Ventari Revenant. No group closed beta raid with Water spec cleric Elementalist or cleric Mesmer. I laugh just by thinking about it.

And please stop saying that I want something i never asked for. It’s called “lying” or “trolling”. So please stop if you don’t want to be reported.

Just to be (more) clear. Yes, I want a Ventari buff, and a Cleric Guardian buff, and a Cleric Mesmer buff and a Water Ele buff. All of them to be 8/10 of what Druid is. So Druid is still better, but not 2 times better.

Kidel.2057:

@Aomine
Not as dedicated healers. 100% sure. No group closed beta raid without Druid as healer (and in berserker gear, lol). No group closed beta raid with Ventari Revenant. No group closed beta raid with Water spec cleric Elementalist. I laugh just by thinking about it.

And please stop saying that I want something i never asked for. It’s called “lying” or “trolling”. So please stop if you don’t want to be reported.

Lol, way to dodge the question.

I’m asking are you sure those team that beat raids don’t have any Ele or Revenant?

There’re 10 spaces in a raid, so having one of each class is not so unlikely. Ofc some classes will present more than others, but are you sure not all of them have Revenant and Ele, because of how useful they are even without healing?

What’s so useful about ranger if he’s not a Druid then?

oh my GOD that isnt even the point of this ENTIRE conversation, CLASSES CAN HAVE MORE THAN ONE ROLE, A RANGER IS NOT JUST A HEALER, A REVENANT IS NOT JUST A DPSER, A WARRIOR IS NOT JUST 100 BLADES BOT

We are talking about Ventari in this thread. Teams had Revenants, of course, but none of them as healer, since Druid was mandatory.
I’m not dodging the question, I’m simply ignoring your off topic matters.
Read the title again: “How can Ventari compete with Druid?”, and now concentrate on the bold part. Can you do it?

I don’t care if dps Revenant is still useful, I care about the game, and I don’t want to play a game when I’m forced to wait and depend from 1 single spec (Druid) that is played by 1-5% of the playerbase. And I don’t even want Renger friends to play Druid because it’s what we need. They should be able to not use the elite spec and do dps Ranger.