Guild Wars 2

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

oh my GOD that isnt even the point of this ENTIRE conversation, CLASSES CAN HAVE MORE THAN ONE ROLE, A RANGER IS NOT JUST A HEALER, A REVENANT IS NOT JUST A DPSER, A WARRIOR IS NOT JUST 100 BLADES BOT

And a ranger is NOT needed if he’s not a Druid. The other roles don’t work, especially in places like raid. Revenant shines even if he’s not a healer.

This was constructive until the booty blasted ranger started telling us that its ok for ventari to be subpar because lol dps revenant.

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

This was constructive until the booty blasted ranger started telling us that its ok for ventari to be subpar because lol dps revenant.

How about compare the heal with Cleric Ele and Cleric Guardian too?

You calling your Ventari subpar, while still perform better in healing than those 2.

Clearly you want the best thing possible here for your Ventari too.

Aomine.5012:

And a ranger is NOT needed if he’s not a Druid.

Do you understand that this is also a problem, right?

The same reasoning we are bringing on with Ventari and Druid can be said for Scrapper and Ranger. Condi Ranger won’t be useful in raid because condi Scrapper is too much superior. So yeah, you’ll be forced to play Druid. Does it make you happy?
It doesn’t make me happy.

I don’t want Revenant to be only a dps in raids, and I don’t want Rengers to be only a healer and the only mandatory healer, as I don’t want each raid game to have at least 4 Scrappers.

Ranger can fill the other roles just fine! You dont need projectile block/reflect in the raid, as a matter of fact, having ranged dps is a BIG plus because of the lightning AOE you have to stand in! Not having to pause damage because melee has to run off to keep the group from wiping is a huge plus! Especially if pets keep counting as bodies in them.

Aomine.5012:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

This was constructive until the booty blasted ranger started telling us that its ok for ventari to be subpar because lol dps revenant.

How about compare the heal with Cleric Ele and Cleric Guardian too?

You calling your Ventari subpar, while still perform better in healing than those 2.

Ehm, because I did? You simply don’t read anything. You quote and write random stuff.
Cleric Guardian and Ventary are not much different, and Cleric Ele may even be superior because of the water fields. Still all 3 are WAY inferior to Druid, mayly because Druid only has to spam stuff with no brain involved and bring a party from 0 to 100 with no healing power and no need to spend time to load celestial form.

Kidel.2057:

Aomine.5012:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

This was constructive until the booty blasted ranger started telling us that its ok for ventari to be subpar because lol dps revenant.

How about compare the heal with Cleric Ele and Cleric Guardian too?

You calling your Ventari subpar, while still perform better in healing than those 2.

Ehm, because I did? You simply don’t read anything. You quote and write random stuff.
Cleric Guardian and Ventary are not much different, and Cleric Ele may even be superior because of the water fields. Still all 3 are WAY inferior to Druid, mayly because Druid only has to spam stuff with no brain involved and bring a party from 0 to 100 with no healing power and no need to spend time to load celestial form.

Not even talking to you.
Why quote me?

Anyway, hf shouting around.

I’d have fun playing my Revenant while it’s out, while you guys go play that superior Druid.

I dont get why you hang around other forums complaining about druid. If you dont like it go complain where the dude that handles your class will hear it.

Aomine.5012:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Oh my god so many comments while i was fixing my math.

I would like some help with the calculations. Because from the ones I tried to correct it seems to imply that druid has the max sustained hps and the max burst hps of druid, around 44,000.

Simply spamming ventari’s will with proper traits gives an hps of 2000ish and perma protection. If you add in natural harmony you bump up to 4000 per second, just under the level that a druid maintains during their 3.5 seconds burst. However a druid can maintain this as long as they have energy to do both natural harmony and ventari’s will. It will take a druid at least 5 seconds to get into the form. It will take a ventari person -30+10 energy every time they want to do this burst.

This is important. Ventari can only autoattack, they cannot use any weapon energy or they will ruin things. And from 100 energy the most bursts you can do is 5, or 10 seconds of 4000 hps. That would beat out the druid if not for the fact that you then have to drop 2000 from your heal because you are at 0 energy at this point. After those 2 seconds you stay at 2000 hps and have to wait 18 seconds in between returning to 4000 hps.

So what do you prefer. Two instances 3.5 second instances of 4000 ish hps every 19 seconds. Or one 4000 ish hps for 10 seconds but you never can sustain that, and can only do one 4000 hps instance every 19 seconds.

He prefers a straight buff of Ventari, like 50%, ofc. He just want his Revenant to fill every possible roles. Maybe one day if the condition and healing aspect of Revenant is buffed to the degree of condition Engi and healing Druid, we can one day see a 10 man Revenant team for raid, and Kidel will be dancing in joy.

Oh btw, Kidel, are you sure those teams that beat Raid doesn’t has Revenant and Ele in the Party?

Who are you talking to. My comment was not a reply it was a general question.

Over say 15 seconds there will be two 3.5 second bursts of 4,000 hps total 7 seven seconds, almost a 50% uptime on the highest known hps in the game. This is for Druid.

For ventari our example begins with max energy.
You can only sustain a 4,000 hps for 10 seconds and then never again. It only becomes accessible each 19 seconds and for two seconds.

this is directly against roy’s claims that ventari had superior sustain

I don’t know what tirade you gave started in the comments over misplaced fear this would devalue the Druid.

But you are right a 50% change is in order.

Reduce the energy of all ventari stance skills by 50%

Decrease the base heal of cosmic ray by 50%, increase the base heal of lunar missile and rejuvenating tides by 50%

Then reduce all heals across the Druid by 25%. And increase the coefficients of all healing skills by 50%

make them different Roy please

Make it so Druid can burst for 6000 hps with proper. Limit ventari if you want to do.

The markers are easy

Make it do a ventari stance properly specced would allow a party member to stand forever in lava and be unharmed.

Make it so a Druid spec can heal the party to full in x seconds but don’t let them hps highly after that.

The best burst hps and sustained hps should not be on the same class.

Suppose I could have some actual feedback about my experience in BWE3 with ventari. Was running a healing build with another ventari revenant. Very cool play with keeping each other alive and trading off reviving people and timing tablet heals to get them back in fighting shape. The goal to keep revenant from being able to just sustain itself on its own with ventari was successful. It takes a lot of time/energy to heal yourself back to full with the tablet, but with two and some coordination, can be a single heal to get back into action. That felt good! Ventari/Salvation does a great job at incentivizing you building into healing power for results, and I’m going to hold off on further comparison to druid until we see what balance changes come from BWE3. Ventari is still rather clunky, and the cast time before the tablet movement feels odd. I dont mind the movement speed, and I agree with the earlier suggestion to make the heal be based on a small burst at its final placement instead of passing through people.

Think of it this way.

Druid is a HEALER class, who has NO DPS when he’s healing (CA has next to no offense), so the only thing he can do is healing and cleansing, which is what he does best

Revenant is a HYBRID class that can keep part of his DPS even while healing, as well as switch to provide other forms of support if need be when he’s not healing. Revenant can either go with Power or Condition build while they’re healing.

You can’t have one class overtaken all the roles of another class. Hybrid class should not meant to outperform a dedicated class.

It’s like saying why X class has no group Aegis, protection, 25 might, while y class doesn’t. Revenant/Ele/Guardian can argue that why they cannot outperform Druid in terms of healing, However, Druid can also argue why they don’t have party-wide protection, aegis, 25 might and dps. It’s pointless to argue this because each class excels in different roles, and you can’t expect all classes doing everything as good as each other.

If you really can’t see the big picture of what I’m saying, then you clearly don’t want balance, and only want an OP class to mess with. Also using raid, one tiny aspect of the game to justify everything is a poor argument.

If you really REALLY care about being the best healer and nothing else, you should just go with Druid. Like if I want to play Hybrid, I’d go play Revenant and ditch Druid. You can’t expect one class to taken over every other classes. Simple as that.

Aomine.5012:

Revenant is a HYBRID class that can keep part of his DPS even while healing, as well as switch to provide other forms of support if need be when he’s not healing. Revenant can either go with Power or Condition build while they’re healing.
.

That’s debatable. Ventari requires a LOT of attention to make the healing work. There isn’t much time for dps in addition because of the micromanaging.

To me, I think Ventari should be looked at as supplement healing, not the main.

Aomine.5012:

Think of it this way.

Druid is a HEALER class, who has NO DPS when he’s healing (CA has next to no offense), so the only thing he can do is healing and cleansing, which is what he does best

Revenant is a HYBRID class that can keep part of his DPS even while healing, as well as switch to provide other forms of support if need be when he’s not healing. Revenant can either go with Power or Condition build while they’re healing.

You can’t have one class overtaken all the roles of another class. Hybrid class should not meant to outperform a dedicated class.

It’s like saying why X class has no group Aegis, protection, 25 might, while y class doesn’t. Revenant/Ele/Guardian can argue that why they cannot outperform Druid in terms of healing, However, Druid can also argue why they don’t have party-wide protection, aegis, 25 might and dps. It’s pointless to argue this because each class excels in different roles, and you can’t expect all classes doing everything as good as each other.

If you really can’t see the big picture of what I’m saying, then you clearly don’t want balance, and only want an OP class to mess with. Also using raid, one tiny aspect of the game to justify everything is a poor argument.

If you really REALLY care about being the best healer and nothing else, you should just go with Druid. Like if I want to play Hybrid, I’d go play Revenant and ditch Druid. You can’t expect one class to taken over every other classes. Simple as that.

But that is completely wrong.

A Druid still has a pet that can dps.

All of your dps pets have higher dps than a cleric revenant stuck autoattacking. You can trait to enhance their dps. I can see your big picture. I disagree because it’s wrong.

Please don’t commend on how untrustworthy the pets are, I mained settler druid for the beta.

The Druid allows for an almost perfect beastmaster build. You supply heals cc and immmob, your pet provides dps.

This is not a raid argument this a general argument.

You also don’t understand how shape-shifting classes work. For classes like ele/engie/revenant their attunements/kits/stances make them jack of all trades, master of none. The lack of mastery comes because while they are masters of one role they lose access to the others.

So yes revenant is fully intended to be a master healer only while it’s in ventari just as druid must be in celestial avatar state.

And just as you must slot clerics/settlers to be a good healer so must we.

And when you leave your form you can use dps weapons and when we leave our stance so do we.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Aomine.5012:

Think of it this way.

Druid is a HEALER class, who has NO DPS when he’s healing (CA has next to no offense), so the only thing he can do is healing and cleansing, which is what he does best

Revenant is a HYBRID class that can keep part of his DPS even while healing, as well as switch to provide other forms of support if need be when he’s not healing. Revenant can either go with Power or Condition build while they’re healing.

You can’t have one class overtaken all the roles of another class. Hybrid class should not meant to outperform a dedicated class.

It’s like saying why X class has no group Aegis, protection, 25 might, while y class doesn’t. Revenant/Ele/Guardian can argue that why they cannot outperform Druid in terms of healing, However, Druid can also argue why they don’t have party-wide protection, aegis, 25 might and dps. It’s pointless to argue this because each class excels in different roles, and you can’t expect all classes doing everything as good as each other.

If you really can’t see the big picture of what I’m saying, then you clearly don’t want balance, and only want an OP class to mess with. Also using raid, one tiny aspect of the game to justify everything is a poor argument.

If you really REALLY care about being the best healer and nothing else, you should just go with Druid. Like if I want to play Hybrid, I’d go play Revenant and ditch Druid. You can’t expect one class to taken over every other classes. Simple as that.

But that is completely wrong.

A Druid still has a pet that can dps.

All of your dps pets have higher dps than a cleric revenant stuck autoattacking. You can trait to enhance their dps. I can see your big picture. I disagree because it’s wrong.

Please don’t commend on how untrustworthy the pets are, I mained settler druid for the beta.

The Druid allows for an almost perfect beastmaster build. You supply heals cc and immmob, your pet provides dps.

This is not a raid argument this a general argument.

Wait, you said Beta Druid right?

Some of those pets will 100% get nerfed, no question.
Smokescale is the first candidate. If you did use it in Beta, ofc you’d think pets are strong. Next time go use a Jaguar and check again. (They either die in seconds or they don’t do much damage)

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Aomine.5012:

Revenant is a HYBRID class that can keep part of his DPS even while healing, as well as switch to provide other forms of support if need be when he’s not healing. Revenant can either go with Power or Condition build while they’re healing.
.

That’s debatable. Ventari requires a LOT of attention to make the healing work. There isn’t much time for dps in addition because of the micromanaging.

To me, I think Ventari should be looked at as supplement healing, not the main.

I agree the mechanic can use some changes to be more fluid, but the number shouldn’t change to the degree of Druid.

Aomine.5012:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Aomine.5012:

Think of it this way.

Druid is a HEALER class, who has NO DPS when he’s healing (CA has next to no offense), so the only thing he can do is healing and cleansing, which is what he does best

Revenant is a HYBRID class that can keep part of his DPS even while healing, as well as switch to provide other forms of support if need be when he’s not healing. Revenant can either go with Power or Condition build while they’re healing.

You can’t have one class overtaken all the roles of another class. Hybrid class should not meant to outperform a dedicated class.

It’s like saying why X class has no group Aegis, protection, 25 might, while y class doesn’t. Revenant/Ele/Guardian can argue that why they cannot outperform Druid in terms of healing, However, Druid can also argue why they don’t have party-wide protection, aegis, 25 might and dps. It’s pointless to argue this because each class excels in different roles, and you can’t expect all classes doing everything as good as each other.

If you really can’t see the big picture of what I’m saying, then you clearly don’t want balance, and only want an OP class to mess with. Also using raid, one tiny aspect of the game to justify everything is a poor argument.

If you really REALLY care about being the best healer and nothing else, you should just go with Druid. Like if I want to play Hybrid, I’d go play Revenant and ditch Druid. You can’t expect one class to taken over every other classes. Simple as that.

But that is completely wrong.

A Druid still has a pet that can dps.

All of your dps pets have higher dps than a cleric revenant stuck autoattacking. You can trait to enhance their dps. I can see your big picture. I disagree because it’s wrong.

Please don’t commend on how untrustworthy the pets are, I mained settler druid for the beta.

The Druid allows for an almost perfect beastmaster build. You supply heals cc and immmob, your pet provides dps.

This is not a raid argument this a general argument.

Wait, you said Beta Druid right?

Some of those pets will 100% get nerfed, no question.
Smokescale is the first candidate. If you did use it in Beta, ofc you’d think pets are strong. Next time go use a Jaguar and check again. (They either die in seconds or they don’t do much damage)

You mean all of the canine, ursine, feline, avis, and drakes are having their dps changed? Dps that is equal to the autoattacking ventari in dps and exceeds it with beastmastery. And druids are being nerfed so that they don’t have immobilize and daze to insure dps? Druids are being nerfed so that they can’t heal their pets to keep them from dying? No they are not.

Don’t play the victim game. Druids were better at everything than ventari with exception of protection uptime.

The sole difference is that a ventari/glint hybrid can swap roles and buff up with might stacks to about twelve and still keep a 600 hps regen going.

While a druid can gain keep 18 stacks up 50% of the time and a perma 400ish regen going.

The Druid never loses access to stun breakers, the Druid is kept at a comparative level of dps while in avatar form.

And you have control over your utilities..

You surpass the ventari revenant at everything. What it surpasses you at is not part of its stance.

For balance ventari must surpass all heal specs in sustain, and none of them in burst.

Ventari Revenant has less dps then druid if you factor the same gear. Managing the tablet hinders your dps. Druid has the pet and heals while attacking. Plus stunbreaks, perma protection and regen, no energy management, area targeted bursts.

I like the suggestion that tablet should be faster and do a second heal at location after movement. That alone would fix many issues.

Right now to heal you have to move the tablet past your allues, then move it back to use other area skills.
It should be moved directly on your group and heal more.

I still remember the druid in the first kill video saying “I’m just spamming heals on the boss”.
A healer so easy to use t be so much superior to the others

Kidel.2057:

Ventari Revenant has less dps then druid if you factor the same gear. Managing the tablet hinders your dps. Druid has the pet and heals while attacking. Plus stunbreaks, perma protection and regen, no energy management, area targeted bursts.

I like the suggestion that tablet should be faster and do a second heal at location after movement. That alone would fix many issues.

Right now to heal you have to move the tablet past your allues, then move it back to use other area skills.
It should be moved directly on your group and heal more.

I still remember the druid in the first kill video saying “I’m just spamming heals on the boss”.
A healer so easy to use t be so much superior to the others

They don’t have perma protection and regen at the same time.

The tablet heal works even when it is stationary, you don’t need to move it. In fact you can’t move it unless you want to drop in hps, you should only spam the move skill at its location.

Many problems would be fixed if the cost to move the tablet and the recharge on that skill was reduced by 50%.

Essentially the amount of healing would be the same but a revenant would sustain a 5,000 hps burst only for two seconds every x number of seconds while Druid would sustain a 5,000 hps for 7 seconds during the same x period. However ventari would be able to do it for 10 seconds but only once after which they would have to wait 20 seconds do that level of burst. Ventari would have a sustained heal of 3,000 versus druids 2,000.

Moving on location misses many members. We need a second heal on landing point

Kidel.2057:

Projectile reflection does nothing in raid, and raid is everything that matters in pve.

It’s not just Ventari, but every healer in the game. What they said it’s “burst heal” through celestial avatar, is in fact a sustained burst heal since you can stay in celestial avatar 87% of the time and blindly spam heals on the group without any care.

Short cds, no locks, no energy involved. Just spam heals like no tomorrow.

Druid will make any other healing spec useless.
It should be nerfed and other specs buffed. Not flat, but based on healing power. Healing power must be useful.

I’d like Ventari and druid to suck at 0 healing power and do as good as druid does now at 1500 healing power.

So you want the druid to be totally useless along with the rest of the uselessness of core ranger? You must be glad the devs think core ranger isn’t allowed to be useful also.

Kitty.1502:

So you want the druid to be totally useless along with the rest of the uselessness of core ranger? You must be glad the devs think core ranger isn’t allowed to be useful also.

No, he’s saying he thinks that all of the ‘healing’ specs should only be really good at healing if they’re actually geared for it and I agree with him.

Well, people forget that Ventari, or each legend for that matter, is only half of the Revenants utility bar. Thats why some of the skills seem sub par, but that is because you have a whole other utility line that you can swap to. Versatility needs to come at a price.

As for the DPS Revenant. Shiro + Glint is broken. It is OP in both PvE and PvP.

As far as the Druid goes, sure they over tuned the base heals and they will reduce those. It is a no brainer, and I am talking as a 3000+ hours Ranger main. However, do not expect them to completely nuke the base heals, as some skills have really poor base values to begin with. The most obvious candidates for a nerf are Lunar impact and Healing tides. The no1 skill is about a 1000 heals but it is very hard to hit anything with it. The no2 is a condition cleanse and a very small heal. The no5 is a CC/debuff ability.

Oh, on the notion of the Shadow Scale… It is the same ability as the Revenant sword 3 but on a twice as long CD, lower base power, lower ferocity values. No fury and far less might stacks on activation. If this is OP, then just imagine how the Revenants sword 3 is… And do not get me started on staff 5… Jesus

Chokolata.1870:

Oh, on the notion of the Shadow Scale… It is the same ability as the Revenant sword 3 but on a twice as long CD, lower base power, lower ferocity values.

Last i checked it in wvw with beastmastery it had 1,4k in tooltip per hit. It was doing 10-12k to people without a single crit (and they wasnt running squishy builds). Now combine that with signet of the wild, sic’em and fury..Its overkill

Please dont take the bait.

I asked nicely.

It was doing that damage if you activated sick em and sig of the wild.

Don’t forget about hammer guys. Hammer is part of why it’s viable. It’s decent long range damage and the rotation for it is EXTREMELY easy and reliable in terms of how much energy you’ll have, so micromanaging a tablet isn’t hard at all. All you really have to do is push 2 every couple of AAs. In addition to that, you’re pretty good at bursting a break bar like a druid is meant to be with the staff 5, the hammer 5, and the tablet. I don’t think this is every going to be as reliable as people want it to be in the open world, but with new encounters I think we’re absolutely going to see use for a Ventari Rev in some degree of healing gear. Everyone is getting a little too into the hard trinity all of a sudden. This still isn’t that – if anything we’re just going to see mostly hybrid builds.

Lauriewonnacott.9841:

Don’t forget about hammer guys. Hammer is part of why it’s viable. It’s decent long range damage and the rotation for it is EXTREMELY easy and reliable in terms of how much energy you’ll have, so micromanaging a tablet isn’t hard at all. All you really have to do is push 2 every couple of AAs. In addition to that, you’re pretty good at bursting a break bar like a druid is meant to be with the staff 5, the hammer 5, and the tablet. I don’t think this is every going to be as reliable as people want it to be in the open world, but with new encounters I think we’re absolutely going to see use for a Ventari Rev in some degree of healing gear. Everyone is getting a little too into the hard trinity all of a sudden. This still isn’t that – if anything we’re just going to see mostly hybrid builds.

You cannot press two. To maintain a 2000hps you can only auto and use heal. To bump to a higher hps for 4 seconds you lose the ability to do much else..

@chok
And please stop referring to the fact revenant is a role-based professions as indicative of your point. The ele has fire and water but no one nerfs cleric elementalist water abilities in fact they out perform guardian’s healing abilities in everything but sustain. Ele fire surpasses all . The professions are just separated so they don’t have access to their abilities at once. The role they perform they do extremely well.

So Druid is as Roy has said suppose to be worse at sustain.

Increase druids burst decease it’d sustain.
Increase ventari sustain decrease it’s burst.
This way you gave very clear healing roles across all professions that can be called support healers.

keep in mind natural mender trait is a minor trait for druid, and gives upto 20% outgoing healing, without taking up a grandmaster trait, and on average Rev version is only 7 to 10% more outgoing healing and takes up a coveted grandmaster trait choice.
Just FYI.

naturesoul.3578:

keep in mind natural mender trait is a minor trait for druid, and gives upto 20% outgoing healing, without taking up a grandmaster trait, and on average Rev version is only 7 to 10% more outgoing healing and takes up a coveted grandmaster trait choice.
Just FYI.

It’s like saying Chronomencer’s speed 25% trait -condition duration is minor while everyone else need to waste a Major.

Compare the slot advantages is pointless because none of them are ever fair.

Aomine.5012:

naturesoul.3578:

keep in mind natural mender trait is a minor trait for druid, and gives upto 20% outgoing healing, without taking up a grandmaster trait, and on average Rev version is only 7 to 10% more outgoing healing and takes up a coveted grandmaster trait choice.
Just FYI.

It’s like saying Chronomencer’s speed 25% trait -condition duration is minor while everyone else need to waste a Major.

Compare the slot advantages is pointless because none of them are ever fair.

Disregard slot advantage. Contemplate the number of traits revenant has to take to even reach druids base. If a class can reach 140% outgoing heal increase and still be outperformed at sustain then something is wrong.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Aomine.5012:

naturesoul.3578:

keep in mind natural mender trait is a minor trait for druid, and gives upto 20% outgoing healing, without taking up a grandmaster trait, and on average Rev version is only 7 to 10% more outgoing healing and takes up a coveted grandmaster trait choice.
Just FYI.

It’s like saying Chronomencer’s speed 25% trait -condition duration is minor while everyone else need to waste a Major.

Compare the slot advantages is pointless because none of them are ever fair.

Disregard slot advantage. Contemplate the number of traits revenant has to take to even reach druids base. If a class can reach 140% outgoing heal increase and still be outperformed at sustain then something is wrong.

Yeah, whenever ranger outperform other classes in ONE aspect for ONCE, everything is wrong.

The sad fate of ranger.

Yeah I know you’re going to rebut me about: “But Druid is outperform in healing by a large margin” yadayada…. Yeah, dps-wise zerk Revenant is outperforming zerk ranger by a large margin too. And you’re going to argue to me about “but I don’t care about dps Revenant, I want to be the best healer!”. Yes I know everyone wants to be perfect in everything, but nothing is fair. There’d be no diversity if all classes are perfect in everything. Oh please don’t use “But my healer Ventari does less damage than Druid, it’s not fair!” Your dps Revenant out-damage dps ranger by far as well, so it’s unfair too.

But no matter how much reasoning I make, none of you would ever satisfy anyway, so I’ll take my leave.

He’s not comparing revenant to ranger, he’s comparing salvation to druid.

Coldtart.4785:

He’s not comparing revenant to ranger, he’s comparing salvation to druid.

Druid is part of ranger.

Should I tell you your Herald is not part of Revenant because it’s your elite specialization? I think not.

When did I say it’s not a part of it? And no one here has been saying druid heals should be bad compared to any other class either.

Try arguing against what is actually said for a change.

I say having energy reduction on Tablet for those that spec into Ventari specialization, and can have a trait that make the energy cost scale with Healing Power you currently wearing. This so it doesnt become overpowered for Zerker specced Revenants.

The revenant is so over tuned at the moment, it is absurdly over powered. Expect heavy nerfs come release. This is especially evident with Shiro and Glint trait lines and utility bars. Everything else seems silly weak in comparison.

Hammer down those two before you do anything to up the other 3 lines.

I doubt Shiro/Glint will get some crushing nerfs. Phase Traversal might get some small CD, maybe they’ll finally listen to my suggestion about Unrelenting Assault, Infuse Light will get better visual indicator, Staff #5 won’t annihilate boss breakbars on it’s own anymore, maybe some Hammer #2 rebalancing so max range does a bit lower damage while close and midrange get bumped up…and that would be it.

Oh and expect buffs to Jalis and pretty heavy ones to Ventari and Mallyx.

Rym.1469:

I doubt Shiro/Glint will get some crushing nerfs. Phase Traversal might get some small CD, maybe they’ll finally listen to my suggestion about Unrelenting Assault, Infuse Light will get better visual indicator, Staff #5 won’t annihilate boss breakbars on it’s own anymore, maybe some Hammer #2 rebalancing so max range does a bit lower damage while close and midrange get bumped up…and that would be it.

Oh and expect buffs to Jalis and pretty heavy ones to Ventari and Mallyx.

pretty much ^

Knighthonor.4061:

I say having energy reduction on Tablet for those that spec into Ventari specialization, and can have a trait that make the energy cost scale with Healing Power you currently wearing. This so it doesnt become overpowered for Zerker specced Revenants.

It would never become overpowered because each revenant heal does 140% less to you than to allies. Even if you only reduced energy costs, the zerker would get more from the other stance’s heals.

Aomine.5012:

Coldtart.4785:

He’s not comparing revenant to ranger, he’s comparing salvation to druid.

Druid is part of ranger.

Should I tell you your Herald is not part of Revenant because it’s your elite specialization? I think not.

I’m confused.
Salvation is a specialization, druid is an elite specialization. Are you saying that the elite specializations should be superior? Or are you afraid of being left out of the meta again? Because it was never ANET’s guarantee that they would make classes meta, only give them a different playstyle..

The Druid packs almost constant immobilize and daze. That in itself makes it valuable in HoT. To be the superior healer in everything goes against the no trinity philosophy.

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Oh you’re still here…

Great I can point out a little bit of your flawed argument.

- Boons-
The revenant has great Access to part wide boons in two legends
Jalis with party wide stability

And Glint
- giving party wide prot-might-swiftness- and fury

This is great for the Rev BUT

To have access to these You are giving up something as far as
A trait line
AND
A weapon set-

It could be argued that druid also gives up a trait line for druid
So I will most definitely concede that point HOWEVER

To have access to party wide boons -
You wont be healing-

Your sustained healing goes to 0
A druid STILL can heal through the build up or use of Celestial avatar form-
Staff-utilities- AS WELL AS trait’s and pet abilities and passive ally generated regen. ( not saying regen is good but when coupled with other healing sources it adds up).

For the best DPS-
Your not going to be specced into healing power.
Similair to the ranger-(and not I’ll link that dev quote in a second)

If you do not spec into a DPS trait line your DPS suffers
If you do not spec into DPS gear
Your dps suffers
This isn’t debatable in any form.

Though unlike the Ranger-
The revenant doesn’t have an extended form of itself tossing out high damage.

You can say the devs will do something about pet’s but seeing as how they couldn’t be used in a pvp environment because reasons. I doubt they even know OR have a clue as to how much DPS these little monsters can actually do in a competitive environment.

Let’s say everyone had my experience and got celestial form every 4 seconds.

Every 4 seconds you can pump out massive party wide healing

While for a revenant-
If you are healing YOU ARE NOT sustaining party wide buffs to everyone and if you are sustaining party wide buffs YOU ARE NOT healing.
If you spec into DPS
YOU ARE NOT healing as effectively as you could or a ranger could- thus that argument is DOA

For the sake of though
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Link me the build where you have
Constant sustained healing
High DPS
and Constant sustained partywide boon generation.

And Then I will link you the build where the druid has
Constant healing
Near permanent access to group regen and swiftness
And thanks to your new pets
Constant DPS

Friendly note, when in CA form, Druid’s dps is 0.

.

Did your pet die?

A ranger’s DPS will never reach 0 as long as the pet is alive and until they nerf the little monsters . You still have access to something that does decent damage.

Aside from buggy smokescale that would 100% be patched, yes their dps is trash.

Oh..well looky here..
Not only is there patch notes up.

Smokescale is no where on that list.

Guess we will give it 6 months right?
Tell me how bad that dps is again?

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Oh you’re still here…

Great I can point out a little bit of your flawed argument.

- Boons-
The revenant has great Access to part wide boons in two legends
Jalis with party wide stability

And Glint
- giving party wide prot-might-swiftness- and fury

This is great for the Rev BUT

To have access to these You are giving up something as far as
A trait line
AND
A weapon set-

It could be argued that druid also gives up a trait line for druid
So I will most definitely concede that point HOWEVER

To have access to party wide boons -
You wont be healing-

Your sustained healing goes to 0
A druid STILL can heal through the build up or use of Celestial avatar form-
Staff-utilities- AS WELL AS trait’s and pet abilities and passive ally generated regen. ( not saying regen is good but when coupled with other healing sources it adds up).

For the best DPS-
Your not going to be specced into healing power.
Similair to the ranger-(and not I’ll link that dev quote in a second)

If you do not spec into a DPS trait line your DPS suffers
If you do not spec into DPS gear
Your dps suffers
This isn’t debatable in any form.

Though unlike the Ranger-
The revenant doesn’t have an extended form of itself tossing out high damage.

You can say the devs will do something about pet’s but seeing as how they couldn’t be used in a pvp environment because reasons. I doubt they even know OR have a clue as to how much DPS these little monsters can actually do in a competitive environment.

Let’s say everyone had my experience and got celestial form every 4 seconds.

Every 4 seconds you can pump out massive party wide healing

While for a revenant-
If you are healing YOU ARE NOT sustaining party wide buffs to everyone and if you are sustaining party wide buffs YOU ARE NOT healing.
If you spec into DPS
YOU ARE NOT healing as effectively as you could or a ranger could- thus that argument is DOA

For the sake of though
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Link me the build where you have
Constant sustained healing
High DPS
and Constant sustained partywide boon generation.

And Then I will link you the build where the druid has
Constant healing
Near permanent access to group regen and swiftness
And thanks to your new pets
Constant DPS

Friendly note, when in CA form, Druid’s dps is 0.

.

Did your pet die?

A ranger’s DPS will never reach 0 as long as the pet is alive and until they nerf the little monsters . You still have access to something that does decent damage.

Aside from buggy smokescale that would 100% be patched, yes their dps is trash.

Oh..well looky here..
Not only is there patch notes up.

Smokescale is no where on that list.

Guess we will give it 6 months right?
Tell me how bad that dps is again?

Nope. You misunderstand ranger to other classes like Ele or Mesmer.
They nerfed ranger in as soon as one day.
They nerfed Ele after 3 years.
They nerfed Mesmer after 4 months of PU abusing. (And then add in Chrono to break the balance again lol)

The only reason you haven’t see this patch note is because Irene haven’t even finished the changes yet. You can see detail changes from Daredevil/ Dragon Hunter of how they’re going to change the skills from forum top posts. All Irene is able to tell ranger right now is they fixed the bug on staff 3. See this link for reference.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Druid-changes-from-BWE3/first

Oh, just saying, smokescale is only strong when you combine with pet damage coefficient skills like Sick-em, which has a wooping 40 secs CD. So it is an one-trick pony, one time burst that only works in WvW roaming. DPS-wise it’s still far inferior than a Revenant in an organized group. (Which does like 20k damage per second, not even using the top dps rotation)

Anyway, my point is the pet will definitely get a huge nerf at launch because it’s ranger.
Don’t worry too much. Go worry about Chronomencer.

Please dont.

15chars

Druid is getting 10s CD on Avatar, as many including me have suggested, their base heals are going down while hpower scalling gets a major buff.

That means they won’t have such ridiculous uptime anymore and gives other healers a chance to compete in sustained healing, but Druid is now going to be a real powerhouse with heals increased by 100-140% as burst healer. We will see.

The only slighty concerning thing us that they’re also getting a trait which has potential to increase the damage by 15% for more than 5 people, but as long as it isn’t completly mandatory and expected in every single raid, I’m okay with this.

As many of us suggested, the cd on celestial avatar is a step in the right direction. With this change maybe Ventari/Guardian/Ele is able to compete.

However that 15% aoe damage buff is HUGE. I hope it has at least a 8s gcd so that it can be stacked only with more then one Druid .

Even factoring the 67% Celestial avatar uptime, that’s a 10% aoe damage buff.

If it has a 4-8s gcd then it’s godly design, solving many issues at once (druid damage and druid redundance), otherwise it would just make Druid more mandatory (150 aoe precision + 15% damage buff….)

Rym.1469:

Druid is getting 10s CD on Avatar, as many including me have suggested, their base heals are going down while hpower scalling gets a major buff.

That means they won’t have such ridiculous uptime anymore and gives other healers a chance to compete in sustained healing, but Druid is now going to be a real powerhouse with heals increased by 100-140% as burst healer. We will see.

The only slighty concerning thing us that they’re also getting a trait which has potential to increase the damage by 15% for more than 5 people, but as long as it isn’t completly mandatory and expected in every single raid, I’m okay with this.

I’ll add one more thing.

They nerfed “base healing” by 25%,meaning the BWE 5k healing is now 3750, a net lost of 1250 healing.

They did compensate it with “healing power coefficient” (from 0.5 to 1), which basically just add the 1250 value back when you go for 1250 healing power.

So now Druid has to waste 1250 Healing Power to do the exact same healing from BWE 3, while doing next to no damage/condition.

Kidel.2057:

As many of us suggested, the cd on celestial avatar is a step in the right direction. With this change maybe Ventari/Guardian/Ele is able to compete.

However that 15% aoe damage buff is HUGE. I hope it has at least a 8s gcd so that it can be stacked only with more then one Druid .

Even factoring the 67% Celestial avatar uptime, that’s a 10% aoe damage buff.

If it has a 4-8s gcd then it’s godly design, solving many issues at once (druid damage and druid redundance), otherwise it would just make Druid more mandatory (150 aoe precision + 15% damage buff….)

15% dps buff sounds good on paper, but it’d only be good in raid because:

It only works in Avatar form, but when go to Avatar, Druid has next to 0 dps (>0 because of petty pets.) Druid need to stay in Avatar as long as possible to keep up the 15% dps buff, meaning you’d always have one less person dealing damage.

It’d be mandatory in raid though.
But it’s a pretty huge nerf for PVP Druid. (including Lunar Impact nerf)
Revenant will definitely be a much stronger PVP class

With dungeon reward nerf, raid and fractal 100 = pve endgame. So druid is basically mandatory in pve.

And I’m pretty sure they’ll be wanted in pvp and wvw too.

So pve, pvp and wvw.

Plus 0 damage is not an issue if you alone are passively 15% of the total group dps, while a revenant is at best 10% actively and 0.1% while in ventari

Kidel.2057:

With dungeon reward nerf, raid and fractal 100 = pve endgame. So druid is basically mandatory in pve.

And I’m pretty sure they’ll be wanted in pvp and wvw too.

So pve, pvp and wvw.

Plus 0 damage is not an issue if you alone are passively 15% of the total group dps, while a revenant is at best 10% actively and 0.1% while in ventari

You probably rarely do PVP if you think 15% dps buff + bound to healing power amluet = 0 dps/0 vitality is good for pvp. In PVP, anyone with no dps is trash. (Even bunker has dps)

Also you probably won’t see Ventari in PVP too. But if you insist on using Ventari in all game-mode, and refuse to change to something else, it’s your choice for making your team lose. Dedicated healer is just plain bad in PVP, it has nothing to do with Ventari or Druid.

All the current “bunker pvp builds” has insane damage output. (Burn Guardian, DD ele)