Guild Wars 2

Legendary Dwarf Stance – Supposed to be tank. I propose giving some tweaks and adding protection boon.
Forced Engagement – Reduce energy cost, for a measly interrupt/taunt 50 is too high.
Vengeful Hammers – Make so gives protection to group at intervals while hammers active. (Jalis needs some access to protection boon)
Inspiring Reinforcement – This one is fine as is.
Rite of the Great Dwarf – Reduce channeling time, it already costs 50 energy so it doesn’t get spammed… why add a ridiculous channeling time to it also???

Legendary Demon Stance – Based on dealing more damage with conditions. I feel condition cap at 3 should be lowered to 2 given the ridiculous amounts of condi cleanses you get in a group setting.
Banish Enchantment – This is one good as is.
Unyielding Anguish – The torment caps at 3 stacks (6 if condi met) and does not increase per pulse. Needs to be changed so it can at least stack some torment. Also displacement ignores stability and defiance as well as moves unmovable bosses.
Pain Absorption – Way too much of an energy requirement for getting a second of resistance (not to mention a bunch of hurtful conditions).
Embrace the Darkness – Interval needs to be lower and condition apply higher. For how little of time you can use this should have higher effect. Maybe something like 1 second interval, 2-3 seconds of conditions. Given how it doesn’t last long at least let it stack more then 1 stack of a condition.

Legendary Centaur Stance – Healing tablet build, felt a bit messy, wish there was a way to just have tablet follow you as to focus more on dodges etc then just moving the tablet. Feels like it wants you to stack, wasn’t the point to stop stacking not support it?
Protective Solace – This one is good, though maybe a slightly larger aoe.
Natural Harmony – Decent skill low cost and usable but it still felt weak on the heals, maybe its just me.
Purifying Essence – Works fine, although the cast time was making it fail half the time when used.
Energy Expulsion – Would not activate unless i was over 50 energy. Felt that made it not as useful.

Hammer – Everything has a 1 second+ activation time that needs to be reduced. Why bother with huge activation times when it all costs energy anyways?

Mace/Axe – Felt weak but still by far the best weapon out of the choices. Needs damage increase.

Staff – Extremely low dps, yes it does heal you… kind of. But for how pathetic the dps is not worth it. Also noticed it didn’t always send out healing orbs on 3rd attack.

Please post any ideas you think would work! I would go into traits to but… not worth it ha ha. Hope to hear some good ideas of what boons/buffs etc the rev could use to make it not terrible =P

Well said, man…..

I realize it may be difficult to implement but for “Embrace the Darkness” what about “when the skill is active, the effect from your condition is also applied to the enemy”. So you keep your conditions and still suffer from it if you don’t have resistance, but all the damage/effect of the conditions is on the enemy as well.

This can be done effectively by copying 1s of all your current conditions to the enemy every second (that may already be what you suggested).

Kronos.2560:

Legendary Dwarf Stance – Supposed to be tank. I propose giving some tweaks and adding protection boon.
Forced Engagement – Reduce energy cost, for a measly interrupt/taunt 50 is too high.
Vengeful Hammers – Make so gives protection to group at intervals while hammers active. (Jalis needs some access to protection boon)
Inspiring Reinforcement – This one is fine as is.
Rite of the Great Dwarf – Reduce channeling time, it already costs 50 energy so it doesn’t get spammed… why add a ridiculous channeling time to it also???

Legendary Demon Stance – Based on dealing more damage with conditions. I feel condition cap at 3 should be lowered to 2 given the ridiculous amounts of condi cleanses you get in a group setting.
Banish Enchantment – This is one good as is.
Unyielding Anguish – The torment caps at 3 stacks (6 if condi met) and does not increase per pulse. Needs to be changed so it can at least stack some torment. Also displacement ignores stability and defiance as well as moves unmovable bosses.
Pain Absorption – Way too much of an energy requirement for getting a second of resistance (not to mention a bunch of hurtful conditions).
Embrace the Darkness – Interval needs to be lower and condition apply higher. For how little of time you can use this should have higher effect. Maybe something like 1 second interval, 2-3 seconds of conditions. Given how it doesn’t last long at least let it stack more then 1 stack of a condition.

Legendary Centaur Stance – Healing tablet build, felt a bit messy, wish there was a way to just have tablet follow you as to focus more on dodges etc then just moving the tablet. Feels like it wants you to stack, wasn’t the point to stop stacking not support it?
Protective Solace – This one is good, though maybe a slightly larger aoe.
Natural Harmony – Decent skill low cost and usable but it still felt weak on the heals, maybe its just me.
Purifying Essence – Works fine, although the cast time was making it fail half the time when used.
Energy Expulsion – Would not activate unless i was over 50 energy. Felt that made it not as useful.

Hammer – Everything has a 1 second+ activation time that needs to be reduced. Why bother with huge activation times when it all costs energy anyways?

Mace/Axe – Felt weak but still by far the best weapon out of the choices. Needs damage increase.

Staff – Extremely low dps, yes it does heal you… kind of. But for how pathetic the dps is not worth it. Also noticed it didn’t always send out healing orbs on 3rd attack.

Please post any ideas you think would work! I would go into traits to but… not worth it ha ha. Hope to hear some good ideas of what boons/buffs etc the rev could use to make it not terrible =P

I agree with ALL your suggestions.

I have also noticed a couple small things like:

-Vengeful Hammers will deactivate randomly, if they hit something that is not a player. (seems like the hammers themselves can be damaged)
-Forced Engagement will not interrupt/pull target half the time. (plus the 1 second cast time seems a bit strange for an interrupt skill)
-Hammer skill 3 cold effect doesn’t always apply.

A few skills are unable to be used unless in combat. ex
-Vengeful Hammers
-Energy Expulsion (seems to require 51 energy) kind of strange…
-Embrace the Darkness
.. I think i forgot some but those work for now.

Not sure if these would count as bugs or maybe its supposed to be like that. Either way would be nice if they get fixed. Hopefully they fix them, kind of annoying to have to sit the and summon hammers after the surprise attack has happened, instead of prepping for it.

Also I wonder has anyone seen any dev posts concerning Racial skills on revs? I know they suck for the most part but lets be honest so do a lot of rev skills. I would gladly trade Pain Absorption (an overcostly, mostly useless, self killing skill) for a low damage dealing turret. Or trade Forced Engagement (an overcostly, works 50% of time, interrupt) for a shout to apply boons, or at least a skill that does something…. If anyone has heard anything about it please post, would love to know. Thanks

Hammer needs a complete rework. It’s too slow and makes no damage peak to compensate for that. Make it at least on par with Ele staff please, and give a legend some melee [or ranged] options to compensate for the lack of weapon swap.

As you probably can notice from the amount of threads about that, Revenant has no way to compensate for the lack of weapon swap, unlike Engi and Ele that have kits/conjured weapons.
Make weapons change skills according to legend, like attunements, or just add a weapon swap option.

Yeah the no weapon swap isn’t working in settings like fractals. Sometimes you really need range but the DPS is so bad on hammer…. But oh well you need range so you are stuck with it. unless hammer gets a huge overhaul this will remain a problem where revenant will not be welcome in a lot of PvE content that requires range at some point in the fight.

*•*•*•*•*•*Please DO NOT make weapons change based on current legend. A lot of people are suggesting this without thinking it through. If the Shiro DPS legend is melee (which it most likely will be melee) then this still leaves us with no ranged for DPS. which is required in some PvE content at different points, especially fractals. *•*•*•*•*•*•*•*

In regard to weapon swap: Engi has 15 skills even without a kit equipped, and he gets to customize his bar; This goes up to 19 with one kit and 23 with 2 kits, which are common situations. Ele has 25 skills. Revenant has 15 and cannot customize outside of choosing his legends (also can’t chose which skills to bind to which keys). Adding a weapon swap would bring this number up to 20 skills… still with the lack of customization of skills. Ele and engi also have flexibility to include both ranged and melee attacks, whereas Rev can choose only one. Even necro has 20 skills when you consider deathshroud, so why should Rev be limited to only 15?

Rev needs at the least either weapon swap or more skills tied to each legend for us to choose from.

Also, whatever happened to this supposed strong in-combat mobility?

Yeah, for some fractals the ranged weapon is mandatory. Also it’s pretty bad you can’t swap, since some fractals have different phases.
Or at least give the game a good option to swap sets while not in battle. Come on, i need to open the inventory every time, really?
That’s also pretty frustrating when you swap a 2 weapon set with a 2h weapon, since the offhad one just goes in the first free inventory slot.

I would like to see rev with a higher damage out put. I am being singled out by the rabbits because they think they have a chance to kill me before I kill them lol

Limitation on the weapon sets makes the revenant extremely predictable. I fought a staff revenant on my mesmer and killed him with GS auto attacks with nothing but decoy, torch stealth, and blink. I knew he had a staff and no way of reliably getting to me. I knew he couldn’t weapon swap so it was easy to just stand at 1200 and pick him off. Any other class would have weapon swapped to a ranged option or at least teleported/gapclosed to me.

Kidel.2057:

Yeah, for some fractals the ranged weapon is mandatory. Also it’s pretty bad you can’t swap, since some fractals have different phases.
Or at least give the game a good option to swap sets while not in battle. Come on, i need to open the inventory every time, really?
That’s also pretty frustrating when you swap a 2 weapon set with a 2h weapon, since the offhad one just goes in the first free inventory slot.

The ONLY “mandatory range” 2nd weapon in fractals is against Reactor boss. Everything else is fine in Melee. And even then it doesn’t take long to get melee range back.

Rev def needs another range option, though, for other situations.

The mace/axe combo has a shadow step ability to close the gap. I like that.

One of the first things I noticed was how slow the Revenant felt, I saw a post about an issue with skill chaining which seemed to fit the bill; but that aside the Rev itself still feels really clunky and clumsy to play in combat. I do have a few suggestions though:
Hammer just feels weird, it doesn’t feel like a viable ranged dps option, and if you get jumped or forced into close quarters, you’re a little boned.
Mace/axe felt OP as mess, probably due to the sheer amount of conditions you can spew on your target, let alone one on every ability, could use a dial down in the dmg, or being the other weapons in line.
Staff feels like your trying to fight with a limp nerf bat. The DPS output is sad. I know its a support weapon but so is guardian mace, and that thing packs a wallop. Bring up the dmg a bit on its abilities and it would be perfect.
I don’t have an issue with the lack of weapon swap, but there has to be some way the legends can help compensate for that. Maybe giving each legend it’s own passive effect onto your weapons to make it feel a bit more adaptive?

Vox.5672:

One of the first things I noticed was how slow the Revenant felt, I saw a post about an issue with skill chaining which seemed to fit the bill; but that aside the Rev itself still feels really clunky and clumsy to play in combat. I do have a few suggestions though:
Hammer just feels weird, it doesn’t feel like a viable ranged dps option, and if you get jumped or forced into close quarters, you’re a little boned.
Mace/axe felt OP as mess, probably due to the sheer amount of conditions you can spew on your target, let alone one on every ability, could use a dial down in the dmg, or being the other weapons in line.
Staff feels like your trying to fight with a limp nerf bat. The DPS output is sad. I know its a support weapon but so is guardian mace, and that thing packs a wallop. Bring up the dmg a bit on its abilities and it would be perfect.
I don’t have an issue with the lack of weapon swap, but there has to be some way the legends can help compensate for that. Maybe giving each legend it’s own passive effect onto your weapons to make it feel a bit more adaptive?

I agree Mace/axe is op compared to the other 2 options, but in relation to any other class its still very sub-par.

Giving each legend a passive would be way cool if done right! Not even limiting it to stats, could do something like Jalis once every 10 seconds gives 4 seconds of prot to all allies in area, Ventari Maybe doing a heal burst every so often. Mallyx randomly apply conditions to enemies every so often.

cocowoushi.7150:

Kidel.2057:

Yeah, for some fractals the ranged weapon is mandatory. Also it’s pretty bad you can’t swap, since some fractals have different phases.
Or at least give the game a good option to swap sets while not in battle. Come on, i need to open the inventory every time, really?
That’s also pretty frustrating when you swap a 2 weapon set with a 2h weapon, since the offhad one just goes in the first free inventory slot.

The ONLY “mandatory range” 2nd weapon in fractals is against Reactor boss. Everything else is fine in Melee. And even then it doesn’t take long to get melee range back.

Rev def needs another range option, though, for other situations.

Not only bosses. Many situations require some party members with ranged weapon (like the platforming part with harpies, that is already pretty bad for the lack of swiftness if you have no hammer)

Every revenant skill is way too slow. Every. Single. Skill.

On a slightly different note, many of the skills don’t make sense.

Mace #3 is a physical damage skill on a MELEE condi weapon. This needs to be either a cripple, immob, or knockdown. It could function like warrior mace 4 for example. Staying in melee while pvping to get your condis on the opponent is impossible with such a slow weapon. This skill should help with that (like necro scepter — that has a cripple and it has range!) Mace feels like a subpar necro scepter with terrible range and very slow skills. It should do more damage per condition on the opponent.

Axe #4 misses 90% of moving targets. This needs to be a tracking projectile that always hits unless actively dodged/blocked/blinded. You will never catch anyone with it in the current state. The damage on it is also bugged — it does something like 100 damage even though tooltip says over 1000.

Axe #5 misses 100% of people who are on a slightly different elevation from you. This is an obvious bug. Being on a ramp, stairs, or even a hill makes this skill miss. It’s like warrior’s Earthshaker bug all over again.

The skills across all weapons all feel very stilted and non-fluid. Their aftercast time is way too long on top of their already-long cast times. The combos need to be more fluid (e.g. doing mace 2 —> mace 3 to blast might feels super slow).

Overall, Revenant is currently not fun at all in terms of the combat experience. It feels like pulling teeth. I love combat on every other profession and play all 8 of them equally. Even during beta, the core professions felt better than revenant currently does.

Kidel.2057:

Not only bosses. Many situations require some party members with ranged weapon (like the platforming part with harpies, that is already pretty bad for the lack of swiftness if you have no hammer)

Again, not REQUIRED. You can melee harpies fine, in fact if you have a guardian with you its preferred to stay close to them for their blocks/reflects. Things like “required” and “mandatory” mean you can not complete something without something. The only ONLY thing in fractals you can not hit without range are oil buckets in Battleground. And EVEN THEN you can just ignore them, break the doors, and run. Anomaly is helped with having range if all platforms near it are missing, but they come back pretty fast.

Again, I agree Revs need weapon swap and another range option, but not because of fractals.

Still other classes have an advantage there. It’s not balanced.
Also with no swiftness (except from hammer 5 + lightning field) that platforming part is very hard, expecially because harpies attack you. Swiftness from mace is not an option, since it would make you fall from the small platform.

Revenant needs mobility on every legend (except Ventari, ok)

cocowoushi.7150:

Kidel.2057:

Yeah, for some fractals the ranged weapon is mandatory. Also it’s pretty bad you can’t swap, since some fractals have different phases.
Or at least give the game a good option to swap sets while not in battle. Come on, i need to open the inventory every time, really?
That’s also pretty frustrating when you swap a 2 weapon set with a 2h weapon, since the offhad one just goes in the first free inventory slot.

The ONLY “mandatory range” 2nd weapon in fractals is against Reactor boss. Everything else is fine in Melee. And even then it doesn’t take long to get melee range back.

Rev def needs another range option, though, for other situations.

I highly suspect this will be changing with HoT and expanding fractals to most likely higher level tiers. I could be wrong but regardless we need more ranged options. I pug a lot and I need ranged to help carry.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Thanks for the feedback. This is definitely the type of stuff we are looking for, keep it coming.

Kronos.2560:

A few skills are unable to be used unless in combat. ex
-Vengeful Hammers
-Energy Expulsion (seems to require 51 energy) kind of strange…
-Embrace the Darkness
.. I think i forgot some but those work for now.

Not sure if these would count as bugs or maybe its supposed to be like that. Either way would be nice if they get fixed. Hopefully they fix them, kind of annoying to have to sit the and summon hammers after the surprise attack has happened, instead of prepping for it.

The energy mechanic is kind of weird when out of combat right now and that’s something we’ve already addressed internally. In the next iteration you’ll see it’ll have the updated energy bar.

Basically, you can’t use the upkeep skills right now because you don’t have the upkeep to spend to use them because when you are out of combat energy upkeep drops from 5 per second base to 0 when you are resting at 50% energy. In the new version you will always be at 5 per second base, it’ll instead just cap energy at 50% out of combat. Which should solve a lot of the weirdness.

The energy expulsion issue is probably a bug as it should be costing 50 energy.

(I am assuming Shiro is one of the new legends)

Hi Roy, after the recent annihilation of the acrobatic thief which led me to stop playing the class, I am hoping that the fast paced active defense role will be filled by Shiro on the revenant, will that be the case?

I also want to understand something about this test. Without proper defense and damage legends as well as the weapons and 2 missing trait lines why do the beta now? when those legends get introduced all the feedbacks and balance suggestions may become obsolete because all the missing stuff could significantly change the dynamics of the class. A skill that is underpowered now on Jalis for example when used with Mallyx might become viable when used with Shiro.

Its not like its a good idea to make the legends incompatible with each other because there are stats to worry about. If i were to use Mallyx and jalis then i would be using something like rabid but if i were to be using Shiro and Jalis and Shiro had mobility then i would use zerker or Marauder. I wouldnt use something like Mallyx and Shiro unless i intend on might stacking because other wise they would be incompatible. If people planned on making a hybrid like that, they wouldnt be able to give proper feedback on mallyx because Shiro is missing.

My point basically is doing the beta now and making changes based on non bug related feedbacks when there is still 1/4 of the class missing might lead you to make underwhelming or overwhelming changes. It would be great if we had more info about the rest of the legends at the very least the general idea behind them and the skills so people can give better educated feedbacks.

Now that I read that rev is missing two legends and what ever else…what is the point of the beta? Is this just a PR stunt perhaps or to sell more delux/ultimate pre-orders? idk!

W/e. I have many issues but biggest on is…I really hope in the future we can choose ulility skils like….every single other class in the game. Rev is now first one with zero choice in utilities/elite at all which results in a class that has no choice what so ever; it’s all pre-determined and players have no control other than traits to customize it. This really bugs me.

The Revenant does not really have two missing trait lines. It has one missing trait line. The e-spec trait line should not count, since we are talking about the base profession. The e-spec will (somehow) change how the profession will play, so we can’t really count on Glint to save the base profession.

Kronos.2560:

Legendary Dwarf Stance – Supposed to be tank. I propose giving some tweaks and adding protection boon.
Forced Engagement – Reduce energy cost, for a measly interrupt/taunt 50 is too high.

I would remove the slow while adding aoe protection to this skill. Energy cost should be reduced drastically 25~35. I want this to become one of your two main support skills in Legendary Dwarf Stance.

Vengeful Hammers – Make so gives protection to group at intervals while hammers active. (Jalis needs some access to protection boon)

I would lower the energy cost to 4 (meaning you still regen 1 energy in combat) while in return removing the unblockable from the skill. I want this so that the revenant can still use skills while maintaing this mode a utility skill will be hard but a weapon skill is plausible. The secon reason is so it can support allies by removing aegis and blocks in an aoe manner.

Inspiring Reinforcement – This one is fine as is.
Rite of the Great Dwarf – Reduce channeling time, it already costs 50 energy so it doesn’t get spammed… why add a ridiculous channeling time to it also???

aggreed.

Legendary Demon Stance – Based on dealing more damage with conditions. I feel condition cap at 3 should be lowered to 2 given the ridiculous amounts of condi cleanses you get in a group setting.
Banish Enchantment – This is one good as is.

aggreed.

Unyielding Anguish – The torment caps at 3 stacks (6 if condi met) and does not increase per pulse. Needs to be changed so it can at least stack some torment. Also displacement ignores stability and defiance as well as moves unmovable bosses.

I would remove the teleporting and change it in to blind or something else. It is very counter intuitive since the condition build is melee and you’r casting your enemy away on top of being a gap closer.

Pain Absorption – Way too much of an energy requirement for getting a second of resistance (not to mention a bunch of hurtful conditions).

It’s up to 7 resistance where 2 seconds aoe. I think the energy cost is fine.

Embrace the Darkness – Interval needs to be lower and condition apply higher. For how little of time you can use this should have higher effect. Maybe something like 1 second interval, 2-3 seconds of conditions. Given how it doesn’t last long at least let it stack more then 1 stack of a condition.

The main effect of this skill lies not in it’s condi distribution but from the 10% percent increase in all stats. Healing power, condition damage, toughness, power,… If it were underperforming I would prefer to reduce cost instead of putting condi output.

Kronos.2560:

Legendary Centaur Stance – Healing tablet build, felt a bit messy, wish there was a way to just have tablet follow you as to focus more on dodges etc then just moving the tablet. Feels like it wants you to stack, wasn’t the point to stop stacking not support it?

Making th tablet follow you would promote stacking even more, not hinder it. What I would suggest is making moving the tablet more fluid: no casting time, no cooldown (you can move the tablet immediately after it moved to it’s new spot) reduce the energy cost to 5 but lower the amount healed. In combination with this lower the passive cooldown to 1 second again with lower the healing. I like being supporting while not being in the crossfire.

Protective Solace – This one is good, though maybe a slightly larger aoe.
Natural Harmony – Decent skill low cost and usable but it still felt weak on the heals, maybe its just me.
Purifying Essence – Works fine, although the cast time was making it fail half the time when used.
Energy Expulsion – Would not activate unless i was over 50 energy. Felt that made it not as useful.

aggreed.

Hammer – Everything has a 1 second+ activation time that needs to be reduced. Why bother with huge activation times when it all costs energy anyways?

Mace/Axe – Felt weak but still by far the best weapon out of the choices. Needs damage increase.

Aggreed but I did like staff better.

Staff – Extremely low dps, yes it does heal you… kind of. But for how pathetic the dps is not worth it. Also noticed it didn’t always send out healing orbs on 3rd attack.

Aggreed. I suggest moving it to guard mace dps.

Maybe its a bit too strong, but Ventari’s elite skill Energy Expulsion could revive downed allies. You know like warrior’s elite banner. This way you knockback stompers/npcs to give space for revived players to move and gather fragments to heal.

While playing Revenant, I was constantly struck with how little control over my own moves I seemed to have. Which I actually don’t mind at all. Revenants’ deal seems to be that they’re very specialized, fitting a very specific kind of role – tanky/interrupty, support/healy, dps. But if they’re going to be able to only do that one role, they need to have far greater impact. If all the Revenant in our group can do is heal, then the dps should be able to not worry about defenses at all and only worry about fighting, which should allow them to do more dps in the end and make sure you’re not just worse off for having a pure support.

As for how to do this, I must admit I dunno the best way. Something I think that would help though is if the Ventari tablet had perhaps weaker heals and gave good active defense buffs like Aegis. This way if your party is dodging and moving all over the place at least you gave them something to keep them alive as they move out of your range or something.

If nothing else though, I think moving the tablet needs to be faster and less costly. Moving the tablet around constantly is integral to actually using the build well, and you better believe that whether you’re in pve, pvp, or wvw your teammates are gonna be moving around a lot.

Revenants don’t have weapon swap nor attunements or kits so they must have powerful weapons to compensate. Please buff revs weapons by a lot, they are so weak right now

Especially hammer. (Only ranged dps weapon?) Too slow no dps Ranger axe seems have better dps. If its gotta be slow it should be like Reaper GS, slow but powerful.

Staff 1&2 should have better dmg and #2 needs cast reduction too since its melee weapon. It maybe a support weapon but thats no excuse. Guardians mace is a support weapon too but it has like x3 of revs staff dmg atm with berserkers gear.

Mace&Axe doesn’t look like they got their conditions updated since the last patch, maybe condition numbers need to be increased?

I love the Revenant, huge fan of the Maellyx part! I can see so much potential here to achieve that on the fly I can change up my skills to meet the situational needs.

However in this same great goal lies the weakness. Right now it will not hold up well, and this is specific to the competitive side of the game, due to:

A. Needs a slight speed increase to casting times. However we are also paying with energy cost. I get that you want hammer slow, but its damage is not enough to sustain a slow weapon. I play necro and I know all about slow heavy hitting skills. So I can tell you hands down that it needs a slight bump in speed In all weapon skills.

B. Damage, it is weak in comparison to all other classes I assume this was done on purpose to tweak up, verses, pumping them out with to high of a damage from the start. The damage values on slow skills needs to be modified to warrant them even after a slight boost to their speed.

C. Overall continuity. The Revenant traits and skills need to be looked at for equalization and continuity. I can see the thought here was that the Revenant was many things in one, that it was using the skills of a multitude of different fighting platforms. This needs some toning down though, the variety of the skills that don’t synergize with one another has made this a very busy patchwork quilt. With weak borders. The center of the quilt needs to be strengthened with core values of continuity pulsing out. My suggestion is to cut down on what feels like tons of random conditions and skills that vary greatly from each other. Focus on giving them a core.

Here’s how i would improve revenants. Not having them able to weapon swap and locking them into range or melee is a big downside. What they could do to fix that isn’t to give them a weapon swap like other classes but to have their ‘weapon swap’ change the ranges on the weapon skills themselves. In other words the skills stay the same its only the ranges on the skills that change. Have melee weapons be around shortbow ranges and ranged weapons (the hammer) get greatsword ranges and a cleave.

So I’m not an expert on healing builds or anything, but would a sensible suggestion for the Ventari tablet be to allow it to follow you? Sort of like Guardians and their spirit weapons.

Kronos.2560:

Rite of the Great Dwarf – Reduce channeling time, it already costs 50 energy so it doesn’t get spammed… why add a ridiculous channeling time to it also???

Well, from a lore perspective, it is supposed to be a ritual rather than a quick-casting spell. Those are supposed to take a little longer.

The problem is the ratio of uptime versus casting time. If it lasted longer – maybe even make it an upkeep skill, which would give Jalis two upkeep skills but with very different purposes – but as I said in another thread, at the moment the cast time is too long to use it reactively, while the ratio up uptime to cast time is too low to be useful proactively.

The elite skills need redesigned. They are too underwhelming. In a PvP environment, you hardly have enough resources or time to even bother with them.

Weapon skills have a CD and cast times, so why bother making them cost resources? I’ve noticed that the most effective way to play mace/axe condi builds is to only auto attack and spam your “utilities” to strip boons and apply stacks of condis. It seems much more effective than wasting time and energy on using the weapon skills and just getting destroyed 2 seconds later because you didn’t have enough for the utilitie “defensives”.

Another huge problem is that there isn’t much stun break or defensive CDs for that matter. Sure stance swaping breaks stuns but that has a pretty substancial cd. Stability road takes way too long to get stab from.

Overall the class feels very very slow. This is mainly due to everything having cast times all over the place. Your resource builds slowly, and everything draws from it except 6.

Also, please stop riding the line on supports in GW2. If you want dedicated healers like in GW then please just do it already. Otherwise, it’s really frustrating to see something try to be a “healer” and have it fizzle before our eyes.

I know people would like dedicated healers. That way, the designers could bump up the PvE content difficulty and all of these thousands of people trying to be healers could finally be healers. Right now there is absolutely no incentive to be a support in almost any environment because they just aren’t NEEDED.

cocowoushi.7150:

Kidel.2057:

Not only bosses. Many situations require some party members with ranged weapon (like the platforming part with harpies, that is already pretty bad for the lack of swiftness if you have no hammer)

Again, not REQUIRED. You can melee harpies fine, in fact if you have a guardian with you its preferred to stay close to them for their blocks/reflects. Things like “required” and “mandatory” mean you can not complete something without something. The only ONLY thing in fractals you can not hit without range are oil buckets in Battleground. And EVEN THEN you can just ignore them, break the doors, and run. Anomaly is helped with having range if all platforms near it are missing, but they come back pretty fast.

Again, I agree Revs need weapon swap and another range option, but not because of fractals.

Engineers and elementalists don’t have weapon swap. Perhaps a way can be found to do something similar to the revenant to make weapon swap unnecessary.

More great ideas in the above posts.

A few things I like about current Rev test version-

The combos effects are nice.
- In wvw stacking and double blasting fire fields in hammer is nice. Double blasting stone path/ele electric field for swiftness stacking is nice. A little more mobility would be decent, perhaps a leap or rush in Jalis Legend or Shiro Legend, a passive 25% increase in a legend (talented (or signet)), swiftness of some kind other than the blast finish model, because on the run its nice to apply while moving instead of being forced to stop to apply swiftness effectively.

-The Current Mace/Axe combo looks decent in melee condition and notably the triple blast finisher which if you back up can land 3 blasts in own fire field for 9 might .. makes a really nice ‘empower’

Dedicated healing in a support mode is an interesting way of playing support as well as shielding/booning options. Not saying make all game content require dedicated healers but if healing power was worth stacking it would get so much more use and if someone chooses to be a support heals, great .. their dps or survival is low… apply poison, cc/daze/stun + kill them first and win. It adds much more dynamic to fighting instead of just blow everything and anything up. Also could make for some fun harder mode content that would benefit from support players to make it easier to defeat in PvE Loved dedicated healing and shielding support in GW1 content and would enjoy a return of it to flavor game content in the intended Damage – Support – Control Playstyle.

—Back to Rev Specifically—

Would like to see variety on Rev skills:

-No weapon swapping. Keep this as is because it is on Par with the other Soldier, Adventurer, and Scholar Models which run 2 switchers and 1 that doesn’t swap weapons, instead using only one.

-Add ability from lack of swapping by having 5 Weapon and 3 Utility Skills that change based on the current Legend you channel. Within each Legend it can then be possible to make a weapon function differently such as Melee and Ranged, AoE/Single Target, Support Block,Buff, Heal&Boon/Condition Damage, and of course Power&Crit damage.

Pretty much change it all based on Legend, would have play style unlike any class available (Ele is the closest but they are spell based and Revs are more Melee Based)

The changes would make it feel a real true transition as if you are somebody else at the time of channel and swapping legend. This also makes Rev interesting because you could literally change play style directly simply by swapping legend.

Weapons could be tuned to do the opposite behavior of another weapon:

Example of Opposite Effects of Weapons Within Legends:

- Hammer is Ranged Channeling Jalis, Mace/Axe or Staff can be Melee on Jalis.
- Hammer is Melee Power Damage on Shiro, but Mace/Axe or Staff is Ranged Power damage on Shiro
- Hammer is Ranged Condition Damage on Mallyx, but Mace/Axe or Staff is Melee Condition Damage on Mallyx
- Hammer can provide melee support, boons, heals, shields on Ventari, but Mace / Axe or Staff provides ranged support,boons, heals, shields, walls on Ventari.

General Role-

Jalis – Control Warrior & Tanky Survival Mode
Mallyx – Damage Condition Mode, Dps Boon Condition Support
Shiro – Damage Power Mode, Dps Boon Critical Support
Ventari – Support Healing, Shielding Mode

Invocation – The necessary utility line to make everything useful/viable but takes up the 3rd talent tree spot so you have to effectively choose 2 roles you are really good at which you switch between based on your goals and/or current circumstances. This is after all the sense of the talent tree system is to limit possibilities at a given time, and we get a full 3/5 Lines now, more variety than ever before.

-Passive Effects from Channeling Current legend could also add a dynamic that further makes the transformation in the moment feel complete.

Have the elite for the Legendary Demon stance, Embrace the Darkness, reapply resistance every couple of seconds the way stability is applied to a Necromancer in Lich form.

Currently… using the elite does nothing unless you are stacked with conditions…. and by the time you have enough condi to want share them with your enemies, you’ve already put the nail in your coffin.

It would also be really nice if the elite halved the cost of all energy used while it was active, since you can’t really do too much besides autoattack with the energy drain.

I would really like to see heal skills without an energy cost, since they have a cooldown after they are used.

If you are using a different skill that has an upkeep, once your energy gets too low you are unable to heal.

Since there is a cooldown…. and the energy cost of these skills is so little…

What is the point… other than forcing revenants to make sure their energy never drops below 5?

Its just annoying.

You’re basically double dipping in the “lets make things unnecessarily difficult” pot.

Galk the Bloody.4629:

Here’s how i would improve revenants. Not having them able to weapon swap and locking them into range or melee is a big downside. What they could do to fix that isn’t to give them a weapon swap like other classes but to have their ‘weapon swap’ change the ranges on the weapon skills themselves. In other words the skills stay the same its only the ranges on the skills that change. Have melee weapons be around shortbow ranges and ranged weapons (the hammer) get greatsword ranges and a cleave.

I really like the idea of swapping melee/ranged stances on weapons. I suppose we could also add in different energy regen speeds on a per weapon-stance basis as well to incentivize the original setup.

Morfedel.4165:

cocowoushi.7150:

Kidel.2057:

Not only bosses. Many situations require some party members with ranged weapon (like the platforming part with harpies, that is already pretty bad for the lack of swiftness if you have no hammer)

Again, not REQUIRED. You can melee harpies fine, in fact if you have a guardian with you its preferred to stay close to them for their blocks/reflects. Things like “required” and “mandatory” mean you can not complete something without something. The only ONLY thing in fractals you can not hit without range are oil buckets in Battleground. And EVEN THEN you can just ignore them, break the doors, and run. Anomaly is helped with having range if all platforms near it are missing, but they come back pretty fast.

Again, I agree Revs need weapon swap and another range option, but not because of fractals.

Engineers and elementalists don’t have weapon swap. Perhaps a way can be found to do something similar to the revenant to make weapon swap unnecessary.

The reason engi and ele don’t have the issue are that they only have mid/long range weapons, and they each have a skill type to replace their weapon skills

I agree with the points addressed in this topic. After playing the Revenant in Fractals, PvP and WvW I have come to the conclusion that whatever you attempt to do with it, other classes can do it much better (As it currently stands). Of course we are dealing with 60ish % of a profession and comparing it too fully fledged professions that have had extensive balancing.

The main issues that I ran into were:

- The lack of customizability in the weapons and utilities. I think there are a number of ways to fix this but the most obvious that come to my mind are to give Revs weapon swap, make legend swapping base line and perhaps even allow them to have 3 active legends instead of 2 or to give each legend more utility skills that can be chosen from.

- Certain utility skills from legends are relatively useless. Especially on Jalis the taunt skill is completely useless in zerg fights and even in PvP I have not been able to use it to great extent. The Jalis elite skill Rite of the Great Dwarf also has a casting time of about 10 years. In comparison to other skills that give invulnerability, you are usually dead before you can finish the cast.

- I realize that we are missing the DPS line, so it’s really difficult to judge on that but the current DPS is lackluster.

- Traits do not sync very well with its corresponding legend. Maniacal Persistence in the condi line is weird, but then again the trait is useless anyway.

- You are either forced to go ranged or forced to go closed combat since there is no weapon swap and the utility skills cannot make up for the difference between the two. Especially in 1v1 fights I found often that I would get kited around, unable to close the gap properly. Especially the leap skill in Mallyx form that pushed your enemies away from you makes it difficult to use. This is also a major problem in WvW, where you often cannot stand in the front line because you will get melted by necro wells. Without a hammer you’d be unable to do anything but stand around in that case.

It will be interesting to see how the Revenant will function when the full class is available, but for now its lack of customizability and lack of damage make it sub-optimal in every way.

Hi,

I pretty much 99% of the time pvp and Revs need a bit of work.
In general the slow cast times , lack of stun breaks and lack of dps need improvement. Perhaps some instant cast skills , longer healing pellet times ( 5 secs to short) (maybe include a condition removal with them) and or longer stability / endurance recharge . It’s beta and I know they are not complete by any means so hopefully they will get some positive changes. Overall I gotta say I love the mechanics of the class.
thanks

trlent.9607:

Weapons could be tuned to do the opposite behavior of another weapon:

Example of Opposite Effects of Weapons Within Legends:

- Hammer is Ranged Channeling Jalis, Mace/Axe or Staff can be Melee on Jalis.
- Hammer is Melee Power Damage on Shiro, but Mace/Axe or Staff is Ranged Power damage on Shiro
- Hammer is Ranged Condition Damage on Mallyx, but Mace/Axe or Staff is Melee Condition Damage on Mallyx
- Hammer can provide melee support, boons, heals, shields on Ventari, but Mace / Axe or Staff provides ranged support,boons, heals, shields, walls on Ventari.

If we were to consider having weapons change effect based on stance, I’d probably be inclined to make hammer melee for Jalis. Jalis used a hammer, but he didn’t throw it around and jump through the Mists with it. In exchange, Jalis could turn the staff into a ranged weapon channeling the power of the Great Dwarf. Shiro, on the other hand, did like teleporting around and probably wouldn’t be seen dead meleeing with something as brute-force as a hammer, so the current hammer skills work for him.

What could keep things simple is having each weapon be melee on two legends, and ranged on two weapons, and have broadly similar skills in both modes. For instance, the hammer might be melee for Jalis and Mallyx, with the same basic set of skills… except with Mallyx they might apply more conditions while with Jalis they might have more straight damage. Ventari and Shiro, on the other hand, would use the current hammer set, but Ventari’s might be more support-oriented (Field of the Mists might be a light field for Ventari, for instance). That way, if you choose appropriate legends, you can have both melee and ranged. If you choose legends that both use the weapon in the same way, this is equivalent to people who choose to use two melee sets or two ranged sets.

Axe skill Frigid Blitz needs longer range and velocity to close the gap. Make it 1500. 900 is subpar when you have other classes hitting you from 1200 plus a 300 blast area. When was the last time you saw a Warrior out-mobile every class? All the time! Go to WvW and watch it, lol. You would think the Thief or Mesmer would be more mobile…nope, lol. You are not catching that Warrior, haha. He moved half the screen by the time you decided to chase him. Let the Revenant put some pressure on that mobility.

Same thing for Unyielding Anguish. It is worse since it is at 600. Make it 1500 and bump radius to 300. For 30 energy cost, it needs it. This should be the class to shadowstep in a mob to break up their stacking but puts the Rev at risk since it displaces 5 targets. I like where Anet is going with this but needs the range to make it happen.

Searing Fissure needs to be longer (960 should be right) so Echoing Eruption can hit 3x in the combo field instead of 1×. Obviously it is meant to combo with each other but misses the two pulses since Searing Fissure is too short.

There are more but other people already posted good suggestions.

Ah yes, I agree with keeping it Lore appropriate. It was one of the disconnects I initially felt in GW2 because I wanted more tie-in to the original.

Also like the idea of having a weapon with 2 Legends be Melee based and 2 Ranged. Could allow one person with their Zerk armor/Condition Set to get the most out of it by being melee or ranged depending on the situation without having the weapon swap.

It could make a small limit on overall ability say if you arent in mallyx legend your conditions applied may not be as numerous, but this would make a good purpose for equipping a different another weapon instead. One weapon could have Mallyx be ranged, the other weapon with Mallyx melee.. that way to “specialize” in ranged condition damage you run a certain weapon… you can still do melee condition in another legend but it would be more effective to equip another weapon if you want to do top condition dps in melee.

This also goes along with having a Legend have a passive or automatic effect while being channeled.

I am very much on board with letting each weapon function as both melee and ranged. (I posted the same idea elsewhere before seeing it here.)

I don’t think it should be tied to specific legends, since that seems to take the choice out of the player’s hands unnecessarily. Let’s face it, revenant already has enough of that going on.

Either bind the swap to the normal weapon swap key, or tether the modes to the legend slots or be an option selectable via traits. The slot option would at least let you choose which legend to bind to which attack mode, but I still personally prefer having it on the weapon swap key, for the sake of bringing some much-needed versatility.

What if the legend you have active would effect weapon skills ?

I say that because everyone I have talked to said the rev has some issues going from melee combat to ranged & felt a bit lacking when combat situations changed because they could not adapt as easily as many other classes could.

I feel like Rev’s Hammer 2 skill should cause cripple, knockdown or a field. I like the skills on hammer over all but but skill 2 just feels like it is missing a supportive bonus to make the other skills more insync

In most of the chases u need i think badly if not mandatory weapon swamp in the first place.. adding more utility skills on every legend lower the cost of utility skills so u can actually use them when u need them( remove the cost of utility and put them a cd timer not both/or no cd whit energy cost ).
The tablet is a unique feature an i really like-it but some improves needs to be done, like say for example u don’t need to drag the tablet just the tablet will be by your side and walk whit u like a pet… increase the range of the bubble(make her reflect projectiles) aoe cleanse is good.
Add utilities that actually benefits all party..
Take example from a guard which can be a good dps/and support in the same time.. he will fill u instantly whit all the boons that u need(speed/block/dmg reduction/regen).
Right now sadly the revnant is not in not a position… no good coni/no good support(offers nothing compare whit other classes).
Lack of utility skills it really shows, if u are not bring nothing to the table of 5 man party u are useless and the current state that is.
I preferred that the topics all topics to be all about haw revnant is op in every way to have to complain .. but in this state is a shame.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Thanks for the feedback. This is definitely the type of stuff we are looking for, keep it coming.

Kronos.2560:

A few skills are unable to be used unless in combat. ex
-Vengeful Hammers
-Energy Expulsion (seems to require 51 energy) kind of strange…
-Embrace the Darkness
.. I think i forgot some but those work for now.

Not sure if these would count as bugs or maybe its supposed to be like that. Either way would be nice if they get fixed. Hopefully they fix them, kind of annoying to have to sit the and summon hammers after the surprise attack has happened, instead of prepping for it.

The energy mechanic is kind of weird when out of combat right now and that’s something we’ve already addressed internally. In the next iteration you’ll see it’ll have the updated energy bar.

Basically, you can’t use the upkeep skills right now because you don’t have the upkeep to spend to use them because when you are out of combat energy upkeep drops from 5 per second base to 0 when you are resting at 50% energy. In the new version you will always be at 5 per second base, it’ll instead just cap energy at 50% out of combat. Which should solve a lot of the weirdness.

The energy expulsion issue is probably a bug as it should be costing 50 energy.

Keep it at 51. You’d be able to throw out a bunch of healing fragments to always start fights with them around, and still have regen’d your energy by the time you entered combat.

Linnael.1069:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Thanks for the feedback. This is definitely the type of stuff we are looking for, keep it coming.

Kronos.2560:

A few skills are unable to be used unless in combat. ex
-Vengeful Hammers
-Energy Expulsion (seems to require 51 energy) kind of strange…
-Embrace the Darkness
.. I think i forgot some but those work for now.

Not sure if these would count as bugs or maybe its supposed to be like that. Either way would be nice if they get fixed. Hopefully they fix them, kind of annoying to have to sit the and summon hammers after the surprise attack has happened, instead of prepping for it.

The energy mechanic is kind of weird when out of combat right now and that’s something we’ve already addressed internally. In the next iteration you’ll see it’ll have the updated energy bar.

Basically, you can’t use the upkeep skills right now because you don’t have the upkeep to spend to use them because when you are out of combat energy upkeep drops from 5 per second base to 0 when you are resting at 50% energy. In the new version you will always be at 5 per second base, it’ll instead just cap energy at 50% out of combat. Which should solve a lot of the weirdness.

The energy expulsion issue is probably a bug as it should be costing 50 energy.

Keep it at 51. You’d be able to throw out a bunch of healing fragments to always start fights with them around, and still have regen’d your energy by the time you entered combat.

You can still do that at 50. One of the problems with 51 is that you can’t get rid of the tablet out of combat without swapping legends or moving out of tether range.