Guild Wars 2

Ditch the tablet. It may be ‘unique’, but it’s uniquely terrible.

Anything can be made good with the right combination of ideas. They could turn that tablet into the most broken thing that this game has ever seen if they thought a bit more. In one patch Ventari can go from useless to team carry. It just takes some smart devs to do it.

The tablet isn’t the problem.

Coldtart.4785:

Ditch the tablet. It may be ‘unique’, but it’s uniquely terrible.

That’s a terrible advice. Truth be told hadn’t they removed the clerics amulet I’m quite sure Ventari would have been competitive in PvP.
Also in PvE there are no problems with the healing part it’s the DPS buffing part that’s lacking for a meta spot.

There is still mender amulet, some hybrid of support and mediocre dps could be made out of it.

Actually nope, forget what I said lol

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

There is still mender amulet, some hybrid of support and mediocre dps could be made out of it.

Actually nope, forget what I said lol

I’m trying it but sustain is too low.
It can with invocation kill, support is on par with the clerics version and sustain is slightly lower than marauder power rev but with less escape and stun break.
Retribution has the same tradeoffs as power invo vs retri with the add loss of some healing.

Magi’s just doesn’t work your damage is so low that you cannot meaningfully contribute to your teams damage and sustain is lower than clerics against anything, mostly because you cannot recover your health as well.

If you want to give up support entirely there is Ryms decal build with Ventari/Shiro that can handle menders.

How about ditching the tablet as something you have to move? I’ve seen someone suggest that perhaps the player could hold the tablet and become the center of its abilities.

Or make the Tablet act as a follower and follow you around automatically?

Vyrulisse.1246:

How about ditching the tablet as something you have to move? I’ve seen someone suggest that perhaps the player could hold the tablet and become the center of its abilities.

Or make the Tablet act as a follower and follow you around automatically?

Both are terrible and boring suggestions. They come from older posts when the tablet was indeed clunky to use and from players that want to play a tempest but don’t feel like changing professions.

The tablet mechanic is a major characteristic that distinguishes Ventari support from other supports. It promotes a more active play style based around positioning , predicting and micromanaging which is fun to most that stuck with it. Removing the tablet and creating another carbon copy of a PBAoE healer, in practice the only kind available, is boring and alienates those that want something different.

For those that want a PBAoE healer you guys already have guardians, tempests and druids please stop trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

Varezenem.2813:

The tablet mechanic is a major characteristic that distinguishes Ventari support from other supports. It promotes a more active play style based around positioning , predicting and micromanaging which is fun to most that stuck with it.

Being strictly worse than all other sources of support isn’t a good distinguishing characteristic.

Coldtart.4785:

Varezenem.2813:

The tablet mechanic is a major characteristic that distinguishes Ventari support from other supports. It promotes a more active play style based around positioning , predicting and micromanaging which is fun to most that stuck with it.

Being strictly worse than all other sources of support isn’t a good distinguishing characteristic.

Yeah changing values and making adjustments doesn’t make anything viable right?
After all the last season was dominated by bunker guardians and auramancers.

I tried the tablet. I wanted to make a dedicated healer with healing power primary and stacked +% out going healing to allies.

Warrior: healing shouts (4k) and regen banner of tactics (500+ regen). Effective but no direct spammable heal and no dmg. Very boring as you often are carrying a banner.

Guardian: mild spread of passive aoe healing. Weaker than warrior but it does have a nice mix. For more focused, a couple of medium options like mace aa (lol) staff 2 heal orb and such. Are not chained to a bundle so can do things otherwise.

Ele: nice aoe passive regeneration from soothing mist and any regen put out. Has good aoe healing directly (shout heal) and indirectly (aura application heal trait) aswell as focused healing with gyser and water blast aa. Has other attunements to keep you from being bored.

Revenant: you can get some rediculous aoe regen tics (750+). Besides staff aa and 4 it’s direct healing is all tied to venturi tablet. The problem with tablet is the energy cost & cooldowns to move it and the delay on its burst heal. And there is also it’s passive heal and it’s radius. The projectile denial bubble is great, the elite is forgettable. The condi clear is OK but should remove the healing for something else.

And yet another issue with tablet is it takes some serious mental power to use it and still play the game beyond healer. What? Just play pure healer? Well unfortunately revenant doesn’t really have anything for a healer to do outside staff and tablet. It suffers the same problem the healing Shout/regen banner warrior does…boredom, only the warrior can heal & remove many conditions better in an aoe of 600 radius.

Justine.6351:

Revenant: you can get some rediculous aoe regen tics (750+). Besides staff aa and 4 it’s direct healing is all tied to venturi tablet. The problem with tablet is the energy cost & cooldowns to move it and the delay on its burst heal. And there is also it’s passive heal and it’s radius. The projectile denial bubble is great, the elite is forgettable. The condi clear is OK but should remove the healing for something else.

And yet another issue with tablet is it takes some serious mental power to use it and still play the game beyond healer. What? Just play pure healer? Well unfortunately revenant doesn’t really have anything for a healer to do outside staff and tablet. It suffers the same problem the healing Shout/regen banner warrior does…boredom, only the warrior can heal & remove many conditions better in an aoe of 600 radius.

I think that Ventari should focus more on providing more utility, like resistance after condi cleansing instead of healing per condition and that the regen aura should pe part of untraited ventari tablet.Personaly I find water blasting with hammer and shiro a more enjoyable and practical way of providing healing than managing the tablet in melee range with staff.

I am sad that there is no 1 handed ranged weapon in the game for core revenant as I think shield is the better support weapon for Ventari than the staff and that at least for me,managing the stone is easier to do when fighting at range.

Varezenem.2813:

Coldtart.4785:

Ditch the tablet. It may be ‘unique’, but it’s uniquely terrible.

That’s a terrible advice. Truth be told hadn’t they removed the clerics amulet I’m quite sure Ventari would have been competitive in PvP.
Also in PvE there are no problems with the healing part it’s the DPS buffing part that’s lacking for a meta spot.

Not really. Ventari is terrible in PvE. Incredibly high energy costs makes that legend utter trash for anything besides projectile reflect.

The healing on that tablet is also pathetically low, and in this game the kind of healing that’s valuable is burst healing, which is why druids and tempests dominate while Ventari doesn’t.

Hitting spread players with that tablet efficiently is another problem as well, whereas a druid can lunar strike a huge radius and a tempest can shout to heal people for 3-4k+.

The rest of the utilities on ventari are also pretty mediocre. Outside a reflect, mallyx is far superior to let your group cope with condition spam, and the other skill is a measly aoe heal with an immense energy cost and delay to the heal.

You would have to do hefty energy cost reductions, buff the radius of the tablet, and make it so when you summon the tablet it also heals the revenant significantly so the revenant’s personal survival is not kitten whenever he equips ventari.

Another issue is that outside shiro and glint, the other legends really don’t have viable stun breaks. Stunbreaks need to be built into the utility slots of mallyx and ventari.

Hell, even the utility costs of the legends wouldn’t be so terrible if they just removed energy costs from weapons and kept energy as a limiting factor for utilities/elites only.

They also need to buff the staff, either in its autoattack damage or buff those terrible 150 hp orb heals at the end of the attack chain.

The staff will never be used in PvE and they keep nerfing it for PvP reasons when the only worthwhile skills on it are staff 3 and 5, while the rest are mediocre energy hogs.

To me, Ventari is a really good idea, but it really has drawbacks that make it not so good in the “I’m a healer” area. Especially against tempest and druids which I both play, and which provide big bursts of heal. The main issues is the idea is flawed : current damages are either delt as bursts or as condis. Ventari doesn’t heal so much, yet it heals often. So it’s useless against bursts. It theoretically may tuned against condis but suffers 2 things :

• Regeneration can’t overthrow all the condis by itself ;
• No Ventari skill provides resistance (which is predictable, considering Glint is the boon legend).

So my first suggestion would be to drastically raise the effectiveness of the overall healing stat, and the regeneration status.

Then, here’re suggestion on Ventari’s utilities. They’re really strong on purpose ; exaggeration is a way to show the trend.
6. Projet Tranquility : increase passive healing, rate and intensity ;
6. Ventari’s Will : add a healing burst (~2000 HP) in the area around the tablet, when it’s arrived.
7. Protective solace : add a stability pulse (like Hallowed Ground) and a condi cleanse pulse (like Null field, without the boon cleanse part). Now, this exceedingly expensive utility gets useful
8. Natural harmony : increase effectiveness (roughly Wash the pain away! levels) + stun breaker + specific “Natural harmony” boon that can’t be shared, consisting in stab+resistance for a short amount of time.
9. Purifying essence : Remove the heal for each removed condi. Turn the skill to a “convert conditions into boons” one. Reduce the energy cost and CD.
10. Energy expulsion : In its current status, that skill doesn’t provide anything worthier than using the tablet. Yet, it destroys it. So it has to be significantly buffed :

1. Upon activation, cleanse every conditions and break stun ;
2. MASSIVE healing. Like 10,000 HP ;
3. Energy fragments would be useful with a buff and a 1-condi cleanse.

Alternative suggestion for Energy Expulsion :

1. Cleanse all condis and break sun
2. Create a “Lingering presence” field. Friends in the area get moderate decreasing healing over time. Foes and projectiles can’t enter the field (like the Sanctuary skill).

To conclude, I underline that as much as my suggestions are strong, I tried not to give too many figures. They also reflect the huge energy cost of using Ventari’s tablet : if it’s that expensive, then I want it to be really effective. Anyway, the overall effectiveness of it depends on CD, activation time, energy costs, so it can be tweaked. Feel free to comment…

ThomasC.1056:

To me, Ventari is a really good idea, but it really has drawbacks that make it not so good in the “I’m a healer” area. Especially against tempest and druids which I both play, and which provide big bursts of heal. The main issues is the idea is flawed : current damages are either delt as bursts or as condis. Ventari doesn’t heal so much, yet it heals often. So it’s useless against bursts. It theoretically may tuned against condis but suffers 2 things :

• Regeneration can’t overthrow all the condis by itself ;
• No Ventari skill provides resistance (which is predictable, considering Glint is the boon legend).

So my first suggestion would be to drastically raise the effectiveness of the overall healing stat, and the regeneration status.

Then, here’re suggestion on Ventari’s utilities. They’re really strong on purpose ; exaggeration is a way to show the trend.
6. Projet Tranquility : increase passive healing, rate and intensity ;
6. Ventari’s Will : add a healing burst (~2000 HP) in the area around the tablet, when it’s arrived.
7. Protective solace : add a stability pulse (like Hallowed Ground) and a condi cleanse pulse (like Null field, without the boon cleanse part). Now, this exceedingly expensive utility gets useful
8. Natural harmony : increase effectiveness (roughly Wash the pain away! levels) + stun breaker + specific “Natural harmony” boon that can’t be shared, consisting in stab+resistance for a short amount of time.
9. Purifying essence : Remove the heal for each removed condi. Turn the skill to a “convert conditions into boons” one. Reduce the energy cost and CD.
10. Energy expulsion : In its current status, that skill doesn’t provide anything worthier than using the tablet. Yet, it destroys it. So it has to be significantly buffed :

1. Upon activation, cleanse every conditions and break stun ;
2. MASSIVE healing. Like 10,000 HP ;
3. Energy fragments would be useful with a buff and a 1-condi cleanse.

Alternative suggestion for Energy Expulsion :

1. Cleanse all condis and break sun
2. Create a “Lingering presence” field. Friends in the area get moderate decreasing healing over time. Foes and projectiles can’t enter the field (like the Sanctuary skill).

To conclude, I underline that as much as my suggestions are strong, I tried not to give too many figures. They also reflect the huge energy cost of using Ventari’s tablet : if it’s that expensive, then I want it to be really effective. Anyway, the overall effectiveness of it depends on CD, activation time, energy costs, so it can be tweaked. Feel free to comment…

What you suggested is uterly broken in SPvP.
Currently Ventari isn’t missing burst capability try Envoy of Exuberance->Ventaris Will->Natural Harmony this combo takes 1sec and is actually a faster burst than anything a druid can pull of.
In PvE specifically the problems for the meta are purely DPS related by now, there are more than enough videos of players finishing raid encounters using Ventari.

In SPvP problems were hitting your heals reliably and sustain. The first aspect has been mostly taken care of, the second could have succeded if we had clerics seeing that the other profession that competed for the same spot got nerfed.

When you compare healing numbers of revenant, don’t forget to multiply the tooltip number by 2,5 because that is basically what a healer geared rev get when all outgoing healing align (hence the need to change Legend every 10 sec to get the best results). That means Ventari’s Will heal 5 players for 3700…every 3 sec for 10 sec.
On top of it, the lack of ICD on Bolster Fortifications makes the trait almost broken with the tablet.

Ranael.6423:

When you compare healing numbers of revenant, don’t forget to multiply the tooltip number by 2,5 because that is basically what a healer geared rev get when all outgoing healing align (hence the need to change Legend every 10 sec to get the best results). That means Ventari’s Will heal 5 players for 3700…every 3 sec for 10 sec.
On top of it, the lack of ICD on Bolster Fortifications makes the trait almost broken with the tablet.

2.5 is a bit exaggerated 2.1 is a good number, for PvE and WvW it’s a number you can reliably keep up.
For SPvP it’s 1.8.

Well, Monk rune, sigil of Transferance, Rice balls, Tranquil Balance, Invoking Harmony, Srene Rejuvenation and Selfless amplification (with 1600 healing power) makes a coefficient of 2,55 for 10 sec after switching so it is not that hard to achieve. Especially in PvE because once you know the encounter you know how to have Ventari ready for damage spikes. In WvW I admit that the action tends to make one forget about it.
But yes PvP is a different story you are right.

Ranael.6423:

Well, Monk rune, sigil of Transferance, Rice balls, Tranquil Balance, Invoking Harmony, Srene Rejuvenation and Selfless amplification (with 1600 healing power) makes a coefficient of 2,55 for 10 sec after switching so it is not that hard to achieve. Especially in PvE because once you know the encounter you know how to have Ventari ready for damage spikes. In WvW I admit that the action tends to make one forget about it.
But yes PvP is a different story you are right.

Are you using healing coefficients multiplicatively?They stack additively.
I tested that a long time ago what you said is around 2.1.
There is the WvW bonus which I believe is multiplicative and shrouding mists ,which I never count on, with these and 2.4k healing power you get to a 2.5~2.6 multiplier.

Healing power comes from full ascended clerics, monk runes, sigil of life , riceball, tunning stone, banner of discipline and ice bow.

Are you using healing coefficients multiplicatively?They stack additively.

I did not run my own test but read it was multiplicative, like damage modifiers… then my bad

Ranael.6423:

Are you using healing coefficients multiplicatively?They stack additively.

I did not run my own test but read it was multiplicative, like damage modifiers… then my bad

When I first looked into a healer a month ago I thought they were too, I was actually surprised at such a thing. But I did more testing because I kept getting better or worse numbers then I was mathing out.

On my druid sigil of transference doesn’t seem to work on spvp isle?
Don’t forget that in wvw there is the medic bonus which I believe causes players to receive more healing which I’m pretty sure is multiplied after all other healing modifiers, aka mulplicatively.

Justine.6351:

Ranael.6423:

Are you using healing coefficients multiplicatively?They stack additively.

I did not run my own test but read it was multiplicative, like damage modifiers… then my bad

When I first looked into a healer a month ago I thought they were too, I was actually surprised at such a thing. But I did more testing because I kept getting better or worse numbers then I was mathing out.

On my druid sigil of transference doesn’t seem to work on spvp isle?
Don’t forget that in wvw there is the medic bonus which I believe causes players to receive more healing which I’m pretty sure is multiplied after all other healing modifiers, aka mulplicatively.

Not sure if there is more than one medic bonus in WvW but the medic bonus that affects PvE too is most likely multiplicative. Never tested is though.

the problem with ventary is the concept

any other healer build use his decision to where the heal goes

ventary heal goes where the tablet located but unfortunately till you target it to one location you allies already dodge out the area and miss the heal burst

so as you see your allies need to know that if they wanna get healed they should come to the tablet (as stop moving in pvp is death sentence)

also the self heal is low thus you have to lose energy inorder to sustain yourself

so i think the healing skill should self heal more and have higher cd while the other 3 skills should heal more the group while also reduce the energy cost

also pls dont make ventary the only legend who needs to activate when switch
and make it every time you switch you heal around you for X amount

messiah.1908:

the problem with ventary is the concept

any other healer build use his decision to where the heal goes

ventary heal goes where the tablet located but unfortunately till you target it to one location you allies already dodge out the area and miss the heal burst

so as you see your allies need to know that if they wanna get healed they should come to the tablet (as stop moving in pvp is death sentence)

also the self heal is low thus you have to lose energy inorder to sustain yourself

so i think the healing skill should self heal more and have higher cd while the other 3 skills should heal more the group while also reduce the energy cost

also pls dont make ventary the only legend who needs to activate when switch
and make it every time you switch you heal around you for X amount

Have you played since patch? Larger radius made it easier to hit heals.
Also your solutions aren’t really concept solutions, they are numbers.
IMO to compete with the overall efficiency of support in SPvP we only need some sustain increase.

I also hate the tablet, I find it unwieldy and annoying. It’s really more like an anchor you constantly have to heave around while simultaneously worrying about all the other usual stuff.

I would much rather just have regular healing/warding/cleansing skills and ditch the tablet completely.

Israel.7056:

I also hate the tablet, I find it unwieldy and annoying. It’s really more like an anchor you constantly have to heave around while simultaneously worrying about all the other usual stuff.

I would much rather just have regular healing/warding/cleansing skills and ditch the tablet completely.

I guess Ventari based support isn’t for you. You might have to wait for another espec or even just play druid.

Varezenem.2813:

I guess Ventari based support isn’t for you.

Certainly not in its current iteration.

The major issue with Ventari isn’t the tablet, it’s that it’s simply outclassed as a healer by druids. Druids/Rangers provide so many unique offensive buffs that they justify a spot just from the buffs alone.

Meanwhile, Heralds have their facets in Glint rather than Ventari, meaning, they have to give up their healing in order to provide boons while druids provide more buffs as they heal more. In addition, revenant damage is significantly higher than rangers, so, druids give up less by going support than revenants do.

Not worth the discussion – See Guardian Spirit Weapons.

3 years of garbage and counting.

I tried it post patch and it’s better but still not viable because of lack of personal sustain. The traits are also way too heal-specific, needs more generally useful traits.

My ideal improvement would be to make the elite a teleport skill that swaps your position with the tablet’s position, without destroying the tablet and keeping the knockback, but adding a 45sec CD.

The tablet mechanics are interesting but they need to make the legend a bit more appealing.

scerevisiae.1972:

I tried it post patch and it’s better but still not viable because of lack of personal sustain. The traits are also way too heal-specific, needs more generally useful traits.

My ideal improvement would be to make the elite a teleport skill that swaps your position with the tablet’s position, without destroying the tablet and keeping the knockback, but adding a 45sec CD.

The tablet mechanics are interesting but they need to make the legend a bit more appealing.

45sec cooldown is ridiculous even for this effect, let me remind you that the highest cooldown for regular rev utilities is 10sec and for elites 5sec. Also not really interesting.
A simple way to restore sustain to proper levels is reintroducing the clerics amulet, because of logical reasons I doubt you were talking about WvW or PvE.

http://i.imgur.com/dLB69Ci.jpg <3

Varezenem.2813:

scerevisiae.1972:

I tried it post patch and it’s better but still not viable because of lack of personal sustain. The traits are also way too heal-specific, needs more generally useful traits.

My ideal improvement would be to make the elite a teleport skill that swaps your position with the tablet’s position, without destroying the tablet and keeping the knockback, but adding a 45sec CD.

The tablet mechanics are interesting but they need to make the legend a bit more appealing.

45sec cooldown is ridiculous even for this effect, let me remind you that the highest cooldown for regular rev utilities is 10sec and for elites 5sec. Also not really interesting.
A simple way to restore sustain to proper levels is reintroducing the clerics amulet, because of logical reasons I doubt you were talking about WvW or PvE.

I was talking about WVW. A skill that swapped your current position with your tablet would be the best thing ever. CD needs to be long or ventari would be unkillable.

scerevisiae.1972:

Varezenem.2813:

scerevisiae.1972:

I tried it post patch and it’s better but still not viable because of lack of personal sustain. The traits are also way too heal-specific, needs more generally useful traits.

My ideal improvement would be to make the elite a teleport skill that swaps your position with the tablet’s position, without destroying the tablet and keeping the knockback, but adding a 45sec CD.

The tablet mechanics are interesting but they need to make the legend a bit more appealing.

45sec cooldown is ridiculous even for this effect, let me remind you that the highest cooldown for regular rev utilities is 10sec and for elites 5sec. Also not really interesting.
A simple way to restore sustain to proper levels is reintroducing the clerics amulet, because of logical reasons I doubt you were talking about WvW or PvE.

I was talking about WVW. A skill that swapped your current position with your tablet would be the best thing ever. CD needs to be long or ventari would be unkillable.

Have you considered using ministrels?

Personaly I feel the following changes need to occur to make Ventari and Salvation viable:

1)To have Nourishing Roots and Tranquil Benediction swap places with each other on the trait tree.
2) To have Natural Abundance give out either Stab – 1 sec duration, because Ventari’s Will can be spamed like crazy
3) To have an amulet tailored around either the Crusader, Nomad or Zealot stats
4) Have PE turn into a togle-able that generates a water field on top of the condi cleanse it does.

Ventari needs two things above all:

1- The heal skill needs to give a larger heal to the revenant himself when summoned and moved. Give it the Wash the Pain Away treatment where it heals you more and allies less.

Part of the reason why people don’t run ventari is because it’s suicide, you’re way to vulnerable to burst which is the damage that matters.

2- Both Ventari and Mallyx need stunbreaks built into one of their utilities. Shiro and Glint dominate because they’re the only legends that prevent you from being pinballed to death.

3- The cost of the ventari utilities are even more outrageous than the other legends.

To top it off, the weapon supposed to go with ventari, staff, also has outrageous energy costs, and the only two good skills, 3 and 5, mostly benefit the revenant and no one else (only skill 4 does a group benefit, and it costs an arm and a leg in energy).

What’s worse, not only is the autoattack damage on the staff pathetic, but the healing orbs at the end of the chain don’t even justify it. Each orb baseline is like 150 hp heal, for 3 total. It’s stupidly bad considering you don’t even control who steps on the orbs.

It seems that quite a few players want to turn Ventari into cheese. The problem with that is that it would get nerfed beyond uselessness soon thereafter. That’s do to the high skill ceiling on using it.
So I would suggest to those offering suggestions to evaluate if Ventari is the problem or their experience using it. After all Ventari is by its very nature a high skill floor play style.

edit: correcting auto-correct

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Personaly I feel the following changes need to occur to make Ventari and Salvation viable:

1)To have Nourishing Roots and Tranquil Benediction swap places with each other on the trait tree.
2) To have Natural Abundance give out either Stab – 1 sec duration, because Ventari’s Will can be spamed like crazy
3) To have an amulet tailored around either the Crusader, Nomad or Zealot stats
4) Have PE turn into a togle-able that generates a water field on top of the condi cleanse it does.

This post is to go in depth on my suggestions and explain their purpose.

Tranquil Benediction in place of Nourishing Roots aims to increase the sustained healing output of tablet’s passive healing by enabling Nourishing Roots to be paired toghether with Tranquil Balance.

Tranquil Benediction also benefits from being able to be paired with Eluding Nulification and Invoking Harmony as it improves our ability to play as support outside of Ventari.

No 2 is to cover up for Ventari’s obvious weakness to hard CC (it’s kinda chesse but I can’t think of something better),while no 3 is to cover the loss of cleric amulet in sPvP and no4 is personal preference as I hate having to spam PE during a condi bomb.

My take on Ventari and Salvation as a whole. I am not too happy with the radious of some skills but I will refrain from going into numbers. Salvation on the other hand feels suboptimal, I want to be able to focus on either providing support with tablet or with weapons. As it stands right now I am not very happy with the choices of traits for Salvation as it forces me to mix tablet and staff play (which is what I don’t want to do).

Edit:just realized how stupidly good my no 4 is….pulsating resistance and regen on a combo water field would be a more inteligent change.

Varezenem.2813:

It seems that quite a few players want to turn Ventari into cheese. The problem with that is that it would get nerfed beyond uselessness soon thereafter. That’s do to the high skill ceiling on using it.
So I would suggest to those offering suggestions to evaluate if Ventari is the problem or their experience using it. After all Ventari is by its very nature a high skill floor play style.

edit: correcting auto-correct

ponders

Yeah, Ventari’s still the problem.

Zenith.7301:

Varezenem.2813:

It seems that quite a few players want to turn Ventari into cheese. The problem with that is that it would get nerfed beyond uselessness soon thereafter. That’s do to the high skill ceiling on using it.
So I would suggest to those offering suggestions to evaluate if Ventari is the problem or their experience using it. After all Ventari is by its very nature a high skill floor play style.

edit: correcting auto-correct

ponders

Yeah, Ventari’s still the problem.

I’m sorry for your loss. If you need help I can help you out in-game.

I doubt you can help me make Ventari competitive in raids or desirable over a staff ele or druid in WvW.

You only really bring raw healing, none of the utility (or damage/CC of a staff ele)

Zenith.7301:

I doubt you can help me make Ventari competitive in raids or desirable over a staff ele or druid in WvW.

You only really bring raw healing, none of the utility (or damage/CC of a staff ele)

Well I already explained to you what the problems with raid are. Staff ele is probably losing quite a bit of ground do to recent nerfs in Raiding, However it’s indeed impossible for ventari to be more desirable than a druid for speed clears after all druid is naturally a bigger DPS increase. For PUGing there shouldn’t be any problems using it to completing any raids as long as your skills are on par. Evidence for that can be seen on completion videos containing a Ventari rev as the only support and that’s even from before buffs.

Not sure how you believe on druids being superior for WvW? Staff Eles that’s another story altogether, but you are sure underestimating its strength.

Fun thing to note, both modes that you mentioned there is literally nothing holding you back on using Ventari. None of them are that competitive (or in WvWs case remotely balanced).

@Jack
Your amulet recommendations go a bit overboard (Specially nomad’s) reintroduction of clerics or even the “Templars” (Power/HealingPower Concentration/Toughness) should be enough. The reason for that is mostly because everyone else got nerfed to the ground.
Zealot’s wouldn’t be too useful since even mender’s only barely cut’s it. Crusaders lacks healing power.

Also since you seem to like WvW there is a fairly interesting property that Ventaris Will might have… no target cap. I’m not sure about that but that’s the impression I had after observing the numbers it puts out while Zerg Healing.

@Varezenem
I had no ideea Templar was a thing or that those amulets are op for spvp (except for zealots’)….and no 2, I’ve already admited that I know it’s op and that I can’t think of a decent for Ventari to cover it’s weakness in a way that doesn’t ruin it’s flavor.

For no4 that’s just personal taste, I think Ventari has the potential to become a better condi healer than Malyx,provided the devs agree with us having 2 upkeep skills with a cost over 6 …also the water field would be a nice touch to keep us competitive in terms of utility with a druid.

@Zenith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUmfazDy6A

Based on the video for WvW I would say Ventari tops druids in terms of utility….I mean to able to heal whilist blocking projectiles…for me at least Ventari is the 2nd best class for dealing with projectiles (mesmer is 1st and guardian is 3rd).

Jack Skywalker.5674:

@Varezenem
I had no ideea Templar was a thing or that those amulets are op for spvp (except for zealots’)….and no 2, I’ve already admited that I know it’s op and that I can’t think of a decent for Ventari to cover it’s weakness in a way that doesn’t ruin it’s flavor.

For no4 that’s just personal taste, I think Ventari has the potential to become a better condi healer than Malyx,provided the devs agree with us having 2 upkeep skills with a cost over 6 …also the water field would be a nice touch to keep us competitive in terms of utility with a druid.

@Zenith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUmfazDy6A

Based on the video for WvW I would say Ventari tops druids in terms of utility….I mean to able to heal whilist blocking projectiles…for me at least Ventari is the 2nd best class for dealing with projectiles (mesmer is 1st and guardian is 3rd).

as a reply to my own video i did math last night. in one of my video i avr 300k healing over course of a 1m and 50 second fight <3

Jack Skywalker.5674:

@Varezenem
I had no ideea Templar was a thing or that those amulets are op for spvp (except for zealots’)….and no 2, I’ve already admited that I know it’s op and that I can’t think of a decent for Ventari to cover it’s weakness in a way that doesn’t ruin it’s flavor.

For no4 that’s just personal taste, I think Ventari has the potential to become a better condi healer than Malyx,provided the devs agree with us having 2 upkeep skills with a cost over 6 …also the water field would be a nice touch to keep us competitive in terms of utility with a druid.

@Zenith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUmfazDy6A

Based on the video for WvW I would say Ventari tops druids in terms of utility….I mean to able to heal whilist blocking projectiles…for me at least Ventari is the 2nd best class for dealing with projectiles (mesmer is 1st and guardian is 3rd).

Zealots isn’t actually OP it’s just not really good. I’ve tried DPS/support hybrids before unfortunately to perform the support role there is a minimum amount of sustain needed, in SPvP menders is able to get to that minimum.
“Templar’s” doesn’t exist but it’s a combination that works really well with Ventari/Glint it gives you less baseline sustain, than clerics, but allows you to make a better use of your boons. This would be particularly noticeable when you go offensive.
Nomad’s unfortunately is too much sustain even his boon variant, Ministrels was too much sustain. It was so broken that it got removed in a few weeks.

i run mostly cleric myself with few pieces of minstrel to buff my boon dur

Jack Skywalker.5674:

@Varezenem
I had no ideea Templar was a thing or that those amulets are op for spvp (except for zealots’)….and no 2, I’ve already admited that I know it’s op and that I can’t think of a decent for Ventari to cover it’s weakness in a way that doesn’t ruin it’s flavor.

For no4 that’s just personal taste, I think Ventari has the potential to become a better condi healer than Malyx,provided the devs agree with us having 2 upkeep skills with a cost over 6 …also the water field would be a nice touch to keep us competitive in terms of utility with a druid.

@Zenith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUmfazDy6A

Based on the video for WvW I would say Ventari tops druids in terms of utility….I mean to able to heal whilist blocking projectiles…for me at least Ventari is the 2nd best class for dealing with projectiles (mesmer is 1st and guardian is 3rd).

I saw that video and that’s not what I’d call a zerg let alone a group that knows how to bomb well.

Nobody tried to pull you either, you were left to freecast most of the fight, if you had gotten pulled by guardians/mesmers or a static field landed on you with a melee train following you would have been pinballed to death in ventari.

Nobody here is disputing sustained heals in ventari. But sustained heals are pretty worthless in both game formats under the circumstances most people compete in.

Zenith.7301:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

@Varezenem
I had no ideea Templar was a thing or that those amulets are op for spvp (except for zealots’)….and no 2, I’ve already admited that I know it’s op and that I can’t think of a decent for Ventari to cover it’s weakness in a way that doesn’t ruin it’s flavor.

For no4 that’s just personal taste, I think Ventari has the potential to become a better condi healer than Malyx,provided the devs agree with us having 2 upkeep skills with a cost over 6 …also the water field would be a nice touch to keep us competitive in terms of utility with a druid.

@Zenith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUmfazDy6A

Based on the video for WvW I would say Ventari tops druids in terms of utility….I mean to able to heal whilist blocking projectiles…for me at least Ventari is the 2nd best class for dealing with projectiles (mesmer is 1st and guardian is 3rd).

I saw that video and that’s not what I’d call a zerg let alone a group that knows how to bomb well.

Nobody tried to pull you either, you were left to freecast most of the fight, if you had gotten pulled by guardians/mesmers or a static field landed on you with a melee train following you would have been pinballed to death in ventari.

Nobody here is disputing sustained heals in ventari. But sustained heals are pretty worthless in both game formats under the circumstances most people compete in.

I’ve heard that slotting the retribution line works wonders on that.

People make mistakes – capitalize on that kitten . Also Ventari the way I see it is a compresion role, you get the sustained healing of a druid but in place of burst healing you get projectile block.

Personaly I believe that Condi Cleansing should have been Ventari’s job and not Malyx’s. The act of martyrizing myself by drowning in my team mate’s condition feels very odd. With PE as a water field which pulses resistance things would have been so much better,we would have a combo field to blast for burst healing at condi cleansing wouldn’t feel like a cheap knock off of what necro’s do.

Varezenem.2813:

Zenith.7301:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

@Varezenem
I had no ideea Templar was a thing or that those amulets are op for spvp (except for zealots’)….and no 2, I’ve already admited that I know it’s op and that I can’t think of a decent for Ventari to cover it’s weakness in a way that doesn’t ruin it’s flavor.

For no4 that’s just personal taste, I think Ventari has the potential to become a better condi healer than Malyx,provided the devs agree with us having 2 upkeep skills with a cost over 6 …also the water field would be a nice touch to keep us competitive in terms of utility with a druid.

@Zenith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUmfazDy6A

Based on the video for WvW I would say Ventari tops druids in terms of utility….I mean to able to heal whilist blocking projectiles…for me at least Ventari is the 2nd best class for dealing with projectiles (mesmer is 1st and guardian is 3rd).

I saw that video and that’s not what I’d call a zerg let alone a group that knows how to bomb well.

Nobody tried to pull you either, you were left to freecast most of the fight, if you had gotten pulled by guardians/mesmers or a static field landed on you with a melee train following you would have been pinballed to death in ventari.

Nobody here is disputing sustained heals in ventari. But sustained heals are pretty worthless in both game formats under the circumstances most people compete in.

I’ve heard that slotting the retribution line works wonders on that.

Yeah it does, my first spec for sPvP was Retri,Invo and Salvation…it did wonders, I could 1v5 under tablet with cleric…but without a decent range weapon I have struggled….

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Personaly I believe that Condi Cleansing should have been Ventari’s job and not Malyx’s. The act of martyrizing myself by drowning in my team mate’s condition feels very odd.

That oddity comes from the last minute change they made with Mallyx during beta. At first, every Mallyx utilites self-inflicted conditions, and the elite would transfer them to foes. Traits related to sustain while under heavy conditions made sense, as well as that pulling skill with resistance.

Then people pointed that all this mechanic dropped when allies use massive cleanse, so they removed self-inflict and we’re more or less at the current state.

Varezenem.2813:

Zenith.7301:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

@Varezenem
I had no ideea Templar was a thing or that those amulets are op for spvp (except for zealots’)….and no 2, I’ve already admited that I know it’s op and that I can’t think of a decent for Ventari to cover it’s weakness in a way that doesn’t ruin it’s flavor.

For no4 that’s just personal taste, I think Ventari has the potential to become a better condi healer than Malyx,provided the devs agree with us having 2 upkeep skills with a cost over 6 …also the water field would be a nice touch to keep us competitive in terms of utility with a druid.

@Zenith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUmfazDy6A

Based on the video for WvW I would say Ventari tops druids in terms of utility….I mean to able to heal whilist blocking projectiles…for me at least Ventari is the 2nd best class for dealing with projectiles (mesmer is 1st and guardian is 3rd).

I saw that video and that’s not what I’d call a zerg let alone a group that knows how to bomb well.

Nobody tried to pull you either, you were left to freecast most of the fight, if you had gotten pulled by guardians/mesmers or a static field landed on you with a melee train following you would have been pinballed to death in ventari.

Nobody here is disputing sustained heals in ventari. But sustained heals are pretty worthless in both game formats under the circumstances most people compete in.

I’ve heard that slotting the retribution line works wonders on that.

A single stability stack on dodge or a 45 sec cd stunbreak proc isn’t exactly saving you in a T1 zerg fight.

Although retribution DOES happen to do wonders for dueling at least.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

People make mistakes – capitalize on that kitten . Also Ventari the way I see it is a compresion role, you get the sustained healing of a druid but in place of burst healing you get projectile block.

Personaly I believe that Condi Cleansing should have been Ventari’s job and not Malyx’s. The act of martyrizing myself by drowning in my team mate’s condition feels very odd. With PE as a water field which pulses resistance things would have been so much better,we would have a combo field to blast for burst healing at condi cleansing wouldn’t feel like a cheap knock off of what necro’s do.

Varezenem.2813:

Zenith.7301:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

@Varezenem
I had no ideea Templar was a thing or that those amulets are op for spvp (except for zealots’)….and no 2, I’ve already admited that I know it’s op and that I can’t think of a decent for Ventari to cover it’s weakness in a way that doesn’t ruin it’s flavor.

For no4 that’s just personal taste, I think Ventari has the potential to become a better condi healer than Malyx,provided the devs agree with us having 2 upkeep skills with a cost over 6 …also the water field would be a nice touch to keep us competitive in terms of utility with a druid.

@Zenith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUmfazDy6A

Based on the video for WvW I would say Ventari tops druids in terms of utility….I mean to able to heal whilist blocking projectiles…for me at least Ventari is the 2nd best class for dealing with projectiles (mesmer is 1st and guardian is 3rd).

I saw that video and that’s not what I’d call a zerg let alone a group that knows how to bomb well.

Nobody tried to pull you either, you were left to freecast most of the fight, if you had gotten pulled by guardians/mesmers or a static field landed on you with a melee train following you would have been pinballed to death in ventari.

Nobody here is disputing sustained heals in ventari. But sustained heals are pretty worthless in both game formats under the circumstances most people compete in.

I’ve heard that slotting the retribution line works wonders on that.

Yeah it does, my first spec for sPvP was Retri,Invo and Salvation…it did wonders, I could 1v5 under tablet with cleric…but without a decent range weapon I have struggled….

But you don’t martyrize yourself. In a zerg fight the amount of conditions you pulled give you such a ridiculous duration of Resistance that you’ll never feel the punishment of the conditions.

That’s why groups bring you to begin with, for the resistance. If revenant didn’t have resistance for the frontline, they’d replace you with another guardian or elementalist.