Guild Wars 2

I was pretty surprised there were no changes on this for the next BWE and I really would like to have more attention to this skill as it was alright, but pretty much made into worthless. For a skill with a fairly high energy cost and a cooldown, which is already quite a big thing for revenant utilities.

The main problem I find having with this skill is the way it functions. The stability is applied so late it just makes the caster very static. It’s fine that the skill itself is static, but the effect being applied is just way too late. I had lots of times where I still got CC’ed from a single downed enemy while standing in the road, while not applying stability yet because it takes so.. super… long. Along with this, the effects being applied by the current state is really underwhelming.

So to clear up the effect what it did at first:
Create a stone road that damages and weakens foes as it’s created. Once it’s created it will pulse, granting stability to allies:

• XXX damage
• Stability (6s) 1 stack
• Weakness (6s)
• Energy cost: 25
• Cooldown: 5 sec.

Now I do agree it’s not supposed to be that you can be immune to CC while basically just spamming this skill and standing in it, so a cooldown increase should’ve already been enough. Not only that but it’s functionallity should’ve been changed already with this slightly. The speed of laying down the road needs to be at least twice as fast. Of course with the nice boon duration buff Glint gives, the stability duration could also have been reduced slightly, but instead it just has been made into this:

• XXX damage
• Stability (1s) 1 stack
• Weakness (6s)
• Energy cost: 30
• Cooldown: 10 sec.

So not only did they not fix the problem it had initially, it also got nerfed on 3 ways where only 1 was necessary (which is the cooldown one). The stability duration nerf is way too big and the duration of the stability could easily have been reduced to 3 seconds. The energy cost in it’s current state is just way too much. If the skill was actually be reworked to something good, 30 energy might be worth but I don’t see any reason to spend 30 energy for such bad skill.

As for my opinion what should be changed:

• It could rather become a stunbreaker instead of the elite. (The elite could potentially also gain another effect but that’s not the discussion here.)
• The stability duration should be increased to 3 seconds.
• The speed of applying the first stack of stability should be at least twice, if not three times as fast as it is now. (I believe it’s around 1.75-2 second including the cast time before the first stability is pulsed. Such reliability…)

With these changes, a 10 seconds cooldown and 30 energy cost is much more worth and balanced. At least it will be more reliable to use and makes you initially less static. If you would want to stack more stability you could always stick around longer in the field, but currently I just feel it forces you to stay in the road for at least 4 seconds to profit from the skill. An enemy only needs to lay down 1 aoe field and you can almost already asume it’s not worth sticking in it for the little you get.

Edit:
Another rework I thought off was rushing forward 600 units in about 3/4 second while leaving a trail behind that pulses stability and giving initial stability upon casting (equal to a pulse of the trail/road or maybe even better like Kodiak suggested). I honestly think this could also improve revenants mobility when you pick jalis. This does make the skill quite different from what it is now, which some people may dislike. Though it seemed a cool option to me.

I agree that these changes would be good and at the same time not overpowered/spammy. At this point the skill isn’t reliable stability even if you are standing on it because its such a short duration and there is a brief overlap between application intervals. The cooldown is fine but with such petty stability duration/no stunbreak its a pointless skill to use. If you are using for weakness application use vengeful hammers and you get a much better result anyways.

I would still like to see this ability be changed to remove the Stability per Pulse and add a flat stack of 3 stability AOE for 5 seconds upon casting. The way the road builds and then it’s active is very clunky and I’ve actually been CC’d out of the road area before it even builds/activates and another scenario the 5 target cap actually excluded me from my own skill.

I have to agree with Kodiak. AoE, 3 stab for 5s ON CAST. Give the road pulsing swiftness and extend the length of the road to 600 units. Retain cast time or hell even bump it up.

The key is giving Revenant reliable stability, which atm it seriously doesn’t have in real world use.

Having the Revenant be extremely vulnerable to conditions AND crowd control is too much of a penalty to the class.

Changes which BlackDevil posted are things I would like to see in revenant. Inspiring Reinforcement utility should be adequate to it’s name delivering proper pros which are going to be useful on the battlefield.

Instead of any on-cast stability and stuff, I would much rather the road just build itself a little faster, so everything gets applied a bit sooner.

Kodiak.3281:

I would still like to see this ability be changed to remove the Stability per Pulse and add a flat stack of 3 stability AOE for 5 seconds upon casting. The way the road builds and then it’s active is very clunky and I’ve actually been CC’d out of the road area before it even builds/activates and another scenario the 5 target cap actually excluded me from my own skill.

I think that would be terrific, honestly. Reliable. Decent duration, but removing the pulse keeps it from stacking to crazy amounts.

I like the animation and flavor of the skill, but it seems like it is getting in the way of making it a skill we actually want to use.

Misguided.5139:

I think that would be terrific, honestly. Reliable. Decent duration, but removing the pulse keeps it from stacking to crazy amounts.

I like the animation and flavor of the skill, but it seems like it is getting in the way of making it a skill we actually want to use.

The part I am hesitant to bring up, but I will cause eventually someone else will, is that with Enhanced Bulwark as a Herald you basically get the old Inspiring Reinforcements for yourself. With 65% boon duration you net around 8s of stability a pulse.

Giving us a stack of 3 stability for 5 seconds solves many problems. It’s less over all stability which is a trade off for getting 3 stacks at once instead of 5 pulses of 1 second allowing you to move out of it if you have to. It also addresses the Enhanced Bulwark Grandmaster trait without reducing it’s power as a Grandmaster trait. It also maintains the base 50% stability up time of the current skill. It also allows them to keep the idea of the road building, which is a great concept, but still give us the stability we need when we need it.

I hadn’t thought about that because I haven’t used the trait, but you make a good point. So your suggestion would limit personal stability with a specific setup to a more reasonable level (which I’m fine with) but allow us to provide a more moderate level more easily and meaningful stability to a group, which is great, IMO.

Currently, without that trait slotted, the one time I could see really using it is prior to shield 5.

1s stab per pulse has its uses. Drop it on someone you need to stomp and you get stab every sec when stomping so even if they clear your stab you get another one so it’s a lot harder to prevent stomp in this scenario.

I do agree that skill is too weak atm though.

Killyox.3950:

1s stab per pulse has its uses. Drop it on someone you need to stomp and you get stab every sec when stomping so even if they clear your stab you get another one so it’s a lot harder to prevent stomp in this scenario.

I do agree that skill is too weak atm though.

That’s not the main issue I brought up. It’s the fact that the skill only starts working after 2 seconds, which often results in still failing to stomp eventhough you have casted the skill on your downed enemy. As for the duration: it’s just another thing that causes skills to get over-nerfed. In a game you need to slightly nerf or slightly buff certain specifics of a skill. This skill just literally got nerfed on literally every single function in 1 patch. That’s a typical case of ‘’balancing gone wrong’’.

It definitely worked for me faster than 2s. More like 0,5s. Maybe you had connection problems?

And yeah, the fact it was triple nerfed was covered many times Apparently to no avail.

Killyox.3950:

It definitely worked for me faster than 2s. More like 0,5s. Maybe you had connection problems?

And yeah, the fact it was triple nerfed was covered many times Apparently to no avail.

You can basically check any video that uses the skill and look how long it takes from casting the skill till the first applied stability stack. That’s around 1.75 seconds. So no, it wasn’t my internet being dipkitten but rather the skill.

Seems like something messed up from BWE1 then. Haven’t used it much in BWE2. Mostly Ventari/Herald and Shiro/Herald Mallyx/Ventari.

If so then it needs to be fixed.

I got you covered:

(from BWE1)

Can clearly see the delayed activation cause you don’t get the first stack of stability until you’re at the very end of it. This is the same whether you run at +25% runspeed (Travelers) or with 0%. It’s also entirely possible to miss it if you veer slightly off or angle it wrong.

In other video I took (but apparently misplaced) I even had a scenario where I dropped the Road (for stability) but then got CC’d right before it formed and was knocked out of it with zero stability. Kinda crappy you can use an ability but not get the benefit…

And if you aren’t moving?

Same activation time basically. Doesn’t activate till the road is complete.

@ Kodiak
Thank you.
@Killyox
I wasn’t at home so couldn’t really go into specifics on my phone.
But yeah, this problem has been going on since the launch of Jalis and it always has been bad like this.
As you can also see in this video: https://youtu.be/Xmi6UwTMBiU?t=55s

Just throwing a bump in for this thread. This needs attention. It needs a faster cast, instant stab and more importantly, improved ally support. A tiny square box in front of you when Revenant should be up front is basically useless. Make it longer or make it AoE.

I know the animation is cool, but it’s simply not worth including a cool animation when it stops the skill from being useful.

Just make this skill like the guardian shout “Stand Your Ground!”. Make it give stability when activated, stun break and then apply retaliation while on road (considering jalis has a gm trait for retaliation it REALLY needs more ways to get it then dodging) . Take stunbreak off elite and its a win win. This skill is one of the reason I want racial skills to be usable with revenant. Because at this point I will never use this skill as it is simply a waste of energy.

Oh man if Racials worked “Best Race” would 100% be a thing because of how useless/situational most of the utilities are and especially with Jalis.

mexay.3902:

I know the animation is cool, but it’s simply not worth including a cool animation when it stops the skill from being useful.

I personally dont think that this animation is great by any means. I actually wish that they simply scrap this skill and provide a completely new one as i cant stand this road. Also 10cd..wasnt the point of energy management to have utility skills next to 0cd or very short ones – 5cd max?

For me they might as well make it a shout like proposed stand your ground.. Energy alone will prevent it from being spammed.

Burtnik.5218:

snip

I couldn’t care either way what happens to the animation, though I imagine it took quite a bit of work so I’m not sure how willing they are to remove it. That said, I think functionality and usability should take precedence over visuals. After all, if the skill sucks then nobody will use it.

It just needs that initial AoE burst. I have no problem with a cooldown, though these can be augmented and reduced by adding a higher energy cost. I’d even go as far as saying 40 energy would be worth it on kitten cooldown to give that initial 3 stacks of stab. 3 stacks for 5 seconds would be pretty good. That way you can get a really good burst out and sustain the 3 stacks for a while, but it’s at a very high cost and obviously wont be permanent. I know that once you throw in boon duration it can be permanent, but this would be at the cost of using absolutely no other skills, other than auto-attack.

Just a thought on how it could be balanced.

mexay.3902:

Burtnik.5218:

snip

I couldn’t care either way what happens to the animation, though I imagine it took quite a bit of work so I’m not sure how willing they are to remove it. That said, I think functionality and usability should take precedence over visuals. After all, if the skill sucks then nobody will use it.

It just needs that initial AoE burst. I have no problem with a cooldown, though these can be augmented and reduced by adding a higher energy cost. I’d even go as far as saying 40 energy would be worth it on kitten cooldown to give that initial 3 stacks of stab. 3 stacks for 5 seconds would be pretty good. That way you can get a really good burst out and sustain the 3 stacks for a while, but it’s at a very high cost and obviously wont be permanent. I know that once you throw in boon duration it can be permanent, but this would be at the cost of using absolutely no other skills, other than auto-attack.

Just a thought on how it could be balanced.

it is a bit OP like you propose. It just needs the first pulse on cast and that’s all

To me, the best solution I’ve seen is delivering the stability at the start in an area then having the road pulse swiftness. That would make it more useful than what we have now, but keep it manageable (because there is no pulsing stability), and make sense thematically.

Gaaroth.2567:

snip

it is a bit OP like you propose. It just needs the first pulse on cast and that’s all

It needs more than one stack on the first pulse. To be perfectly honest having pulsing stability in a tiny area is largely useless when GW2 has such mobile gameplay. It’s half the reason skills like Hallowed Ground see next to no use, alongside their massive CD. It’s simply too restrictive.
  
  
   
    
The ONLY place this skill will see play is in specific areas of Conquest PvP. That’s it. The skill been completely designed around fighting on a 450 radius point. It’s largely garbage for PvE, WvW and even Stronghold as it currently stands. It either needs to allow you to MAINTAIN the stability it gives or to give off an instant couple stacks of stability like the guardian shouts do.

To be entirely honest, I’d rather see this skill turned into something else and having the hammers go up to a higher upkeep cost but pulse AoE stability. I’d give 9EPS for some reliable stab on the guardian.

mexay.3902:

Gaaroth.2567:

snip

it is a bit OP like you propose. It just needs the first pulse on cast and that’s all

It needs more than one stack on the first pulse. To be perfectly honest having pulsing stability in a tiny area is largely useless when GW2 has such mobile gameplay. It’s half the reason skills like Hallowed Ground see next to no use, alongside their massive CD. It’s simply too restrictive.
  
  
   
    
The ONLY place this skill will see play is in specific areas of Conquest PvP. That’s it. The skill been completely designed around fighting on a 450 radius point. It’s largely garbage for PvE, WvW and even Stronghold as it currently stands. It either needs to allow you to MAINTAIN the stability it gives or to give off an instant couple stacks of stability like the guardian shouts do.

To be entirely honest, I’d rather see this skill turned into something else and having the hammers go up to a higher upkeep cost but pulse AoE stability. I’d give 9EPS for some reliable stab on the guardian.

I’d definitely like to see this skill fixed a little. If there’s some way to create the aoe effects and the lightning field in the selected area immediately, while the existing animation is still finishing, I think that could be fine.

I think your post also highlights the massive restrictions placed on this class when we lack the ability to swap out a utility skill we have zero desire for, especially when there’s no way the three skills we’re locked into for each legend will be useful in every game type. But that’s going off topic for this thread I think.

caerulean.4837:

I’d definitely like to see this skill fixed a little. If there’s some way to create the aoe effects and the lightning field in the selected area immediately, while the existing animation is still finishing, I think that could be fine.

I think your post also highlights the massive restrictions placed on this class when we lack the ability to swap out a utility skill we have zero desire for, especially when there’s no way the three skills we’re locked into for each legend will be useful in every game type. But that’s going off topic for this thread I think.

I don’t event think creating the pulsing effect would be enough. The problem is that the AoE is so small and awkward that it’s largely useless in 90% of the game. If it was a bit easier to access like Hallowed Ground, then maybe. The stability is the key part of the skill and this is the bit that I’d like to see improved.

Regarding restrictions, I honestly think this is fine given how many skills we’re actually getting. In our 6 utility skills, at least 3 are usually useful, most of the Elites are pretty good and the heals are generally pretty good too.

That said, I compare all the other legends to Glint and they just pale in comparison. Every single one of Glint’s skills is useful and powerful to yourself an your team. They all work with every build too (okay maybe not a healing spec but eh). I don’t think that’s because glint is too strong, I think it’s cause the other legends are too weak, which is why I want to see Jalis finally improved in it’s last area. I have to wait and see how the new Forced Engagement is but I imagine it’s much better.

mexay.3902:

okay maybe not a healing spec but eh

actually perma regen in cleric’s is massive and must not be overlooked ;-)
it’s like 600-800 hp/s :-D

The problem continues to be, and we’ll see this again with BWE3 since it did not change, that the ability is situationally useful. It’s great when you situationally need to sit in an area and soak up CC (such as a boss doing chain knockdowns/stuns) but useless the rest of the time simply because we need to remain mobile to survive.

This really is the main issue with Jalis in general, it’s all too situationally useful:

Inspiring Reinforcements? Only good if you’re stationary.
Forced Engagement? Only good if you’re in PvE and the Slow is useless if they’re taunted and can’t use abilities.
Vengeful Hammers? lololol walls, hope you’re in an open field!
Rite of the Great Dwarf? 50 Energy makes any skill pretty situational.

Just bumping this cause it needs more attention.

You’re quite right Kodiak. Jalis is just too situational. I really hopy they do change the functionality of the Hammers. GW2’s terrain really does make them kinda hard to use well. Thankfully they can be activated and deactivated but you shouldn’t really need to.

I can see where you’re coming from with RotGD, but I think it can be useful in most areas, kind of like a lot of Shiro’s skills, but it isn’t particularly evident right now. I imagine it’ll get a lot of play in PvP, Raids and WvW.

Just hoping IR gets the buff it needs otherwise it’s literally only useful for fighting on point or stomping/ressing.

The other issue that I’m seeing a lot of is that there’s a lot of new front line with all the new specializations. Scrapper. Reaper. Herald/Revenant. Tempest. Druid Glyphs close range. But where’s the stability? The only class that continues to be able to bring group stability is Guardian. Front line groups in WvW continue to be 100% bottlenecked by Guardians.

Meanwhile the amount of AOE CC just keeps escalating. Druid dazes. Scrapper dazes. Reaper Ice Freezes. Earlier today I got Engineer Pulled, Scrapper Dazed (switched Jalis), Ele stunned with Static so I start using Rite of Great Dwarf and get Druid Dazed to interrupt Rite of Great Dwarf cast.

Stun breaks are NOT effective against the kind of multiple sources of CC we see today in competitive action. The suggestions here are not broken or OP. They fulfill the same role in a weaker and/or less exploitable state but are more effective across multiple game modes. Really would love to hear the Dev’s thoughts on class balance when it comes to Stability and how they expect us to compete in an environment flooded with control mechanics while they refuse to give us means to deal with them.

I used inspiring reinforcement a couple times and just found it soo bad. Harpy fractal with their knock backs 1/2 you’d still get knocked of while standing on road (from delay when starting/between intervals and such short duration’s). I found the only time it even worked half decently was if I was using the f2 passive and then used road. Even then it still needs a stun break/immediate aoe stabil.

I still think this skill would be best with immediate stability on use and retaliation while on road. I mean revenant has a trait Empowering Vengeance that is made for retaliation… but the only place to get is 2 seconds from a dodge? really? (and at that it has a icd so IF you get hit, you can at most get 2 might from a dodge)

Kronos.2560:

I still think this skill would be best with immediate stability on use and retaliation while on road. I

That’s actually a really neat idea.