Guild Wars 2

Game Priorities
I recognize that WvW is usually not on the top of the list when it comes to game design or character balancing. This is usually because it can vary greatly depending on the scenario. You have up levels, non up levels, consumables, buffs, size differences and countless other factors that can create an unbalanced combat scenario. Heck just going from tier to tier is different for example in lower tiers things like Stability aren’t as much as a factor.

Stability and CC
In Tier 1, many cases you have large groups of 20-40 people who are all throwing out large amounts of control. While certain CC effects like Static Field can only affect you every so often, other hard CC’s such as Line of Warding, Unsteady Ground and similar skills can affect you an unlimited number of times for their duration. Often times a simple stun break might get you out of that Static Field instantly applied on top of you, but it won’t protect you from the follow up CC that you’re going to run into with walls and other CC (such as Guardians/Warriors using Leap).

It’s crucial then to understand that good sources of Stability post Stability change typically involves a few stacks from a source with a medium cool down and medium duration. A great example of this is “Stand your Ground” which provides 5 stacks, for 5 seconds, with a 30 second cool down. This is often enough Stability to push through the large amounts of CC and keep functional. Understand that total uptime is irrelevant, but rather multiple stacks to make it through multiple CC is critical to function on the front line.

Inspiring Reinforcement

Inspiring Reinforcement got reduced a bit because the potential uptime of stability was just too high when comparing to other stability skills; it could be kept up permanently. Besides that, I tweaked some of the other skills to make them feel better.

Inspiring Reinforcement: Decreased the stability per pulse from 6 seconds to 1 second. Increased the recharge from 5 seconds to 10 seconds and its energy cost from 25 to 30.

With that in mind, we now look at the changes to Inspiring Reinforcement. While we stay in the field, we have Stability as it pulses every second and we get 1 second of Stability. This is completely non-functional for WvW.

One of the biggest issues is IR will only give you one stack on the run. As you can see in this video if you run with 25% run speed or 0% runspeed you only get a single stack on the move even with a 6s duration. As part of this issue is it doesn’t give Stability right away leaving you vulnerable to CC (I have another video of that if you want me to upload it).

Proposed Change
I would propose the following changes to keep it balanced for other game modes but make it more functional for WvW

1. It gives the first pulse immediately on the ground and under the Revenant’s Feet upon casting. This means the Revenant who casts it will be affected by it immediately.

2. After the initial pulse on casting, it pulses a second time after 3 seconds.

3. Each pulse it grants 3 stacks of Stability that has a 3 second duration.

This has a number of effects. It’s the same total duration of Stability, 6 stacks over 6 seconds. With the Glint Grandmaster Trait it’s only 8 stacks instead of 12 total. Even with +50% boon duration on Facet of Nature that’s still only going to give you less than 100% up time on Stability. It also creates rewarding game play where if you stay in it the full duration you get a second burst of Stability. The only net difference is this version is actually useful for WvW where as the current version has no place.

I think IR is supposed to force you to remain on the road, and is a group support deliberately weaker than guardian. Useful more for PVE or capping.

In a group of 20, the revenant would assist with stability to mitigate a new cc every second, but not be the main support against all cc.

Multiple stacks would make it impenetrable if applied per second, and then increasing the duration would allow you to leave the road which is another small buff.

What would be nice is for it to have stun break to remove some of the Revenants need to predict everything, and for stability to apply to the entire area instantly despite the animation w/o ground target, just pull it back abit to get allies behind you and increase width, pulsing 1 stack for 1 sec duration every 1 second for 5 seconds. So 2 very minor changes to make it clearly fit a purpose and be more reactive.

A few points:

The entire issue is that staying in the road is not feasible in WvW as WvW is highly mobile in nature. Simply staying in place and in the road is not an option so often times you only get a single application. With the new 1 second duration, this is functionally worthless as it’ll be over before you would be CC’d. The Guardian skill was primarily brought up to show an example of a stability skill that is good for WvW but not overpowered. Essentially less up time, but more stacks because in WvW you encounter lots of CC fields for spammed CC.

This skill is capped at 5 targets like all AOEs. This means per pulse, it can only affect 5 targets. In it’s current form it can provide a single stack of Stability up to 25 different people if 5 different people stayed in the field. In my proposal, at maximum 10 different people would be affected because there are only 2 pulses.

To clarify my suggestion would apply 3 stacks of stability that last 3 seconds on a single pulse and would only pulse once every 3 seconds instead of every 1 second. With 3 seconds between pulses, and a 3s duration, this means you get one stack of 3 stability for 3 seconds at the start, and you get one stack of 3 stability 3 seconds later that lasts another 3 seconds. In total this +1 Stability compared to the current change that is live only with less time required to be in the Field. The suggested increased duration is half of what it was pre-nerf.

What you’re suggesting already exists in the game, and it doesn’t work at all in WvW. Currently Necromancers get a skill called “Well of Power” which when placed pulses stability and breaks stun (and also converts conditions). However when you use it to break stun, you are often CC’d right after and the stability isn’t long enough to keep you going through multiple CCs. I can make a video showing this as I had a similar idea for this when playing my Necro and I dubbed it the “Ghetto Road” because 1 second of stability is functionally useless in WvW but once in 10 times it’d work the way I needed it to.

What the devs need to realize is that Stab is no longer about duration, but about how many stacks the skills give. If this was pre-stab nerf, then yes, I’d say the duration would make a big difference. In WvW, stab and how many stacks of stab you have is vital to fighting against the other zergs and their CC’s. PvE, stab is barely needed and I can’t speak for SPvP.

As it stands right now, for a Rev to be viable for frontline in WvW, they’d need to party with a guardian or two just to be able to to withstand the large amounts of CC’s coming from the enemy teams.

For sure. It’s crucial to understand that stun breaks alone don’t get you out of control in an environment where there’s 30 people and at least 10 of them can drop CC on your head, instantly, with almost no time to react upon engagement. The only way out is through and the only way through is multiple stacks of Stability post Stability change.

I realize for PvE and PvP multiple stacks might seem really powerful. You’re basically immune to CC for the duration long as you have stacks. However that’s why we keep to low duration (3-5s) but medium stacks (3-5) with medium recast time (20-30s) to keep things balanced.

No one is looking for anything OP here, just the ability to keep us functional in today’s WvW.

Since it’s the Rev’s only source of stability (read that again, only source of stability), I think the change is likely to kill off Jalis once and for all. With 2 skills that require 50 energy, the hammers now having been nerfed radius and damage-wise (70% less damage done, traded for a 20% damage reduction to yourself? I wouldn’t make that trade), 30 energy cost for Inspiring Reinforcement and a nerf to its overall utility, and a -7 energy degen for hammer upkeep on a legend that already has exorbitant energy costs, there is nothing left but the heal that would make me choose it.

The elite is also poor. If it was maybe 5 seconds of invul or an endure pain-alike, and didn’t take so long to cast (yes, I know about the cast time reduction — it’s still too long), the 50 energy might be worth it. But it’s not, and even then it would be only 2 out of 5 skills, and that’s not enough to warrant sacrificing an entire legend choice. I’d rather use Herald.

Originally Jalis taunt was 3 seconds, Jalis elite costed 40 and reduced damage by 100% like endure pain.

Jalis tooltips ;http://i.imgur.com/ErPuqDw.jpg

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/627401366
min around 29;30

We can observe that under rite revenant takes 0 damage from wolf.
So overall Jalis got butchered to the point where its completely unviable and i doubt shorter cast on rite will make up for that with it huge energy cost.

As i said already in another thread, Glint is tankier due to high uptime protection, while also offering offensive support in terms of fury, might and also has oh kitten 4sec button on heal, aoe reveal. Jalis is not even close.

I think that Jalis elite is so expensive because you can stack that plus protection and get like 80% damage reduction.

This being said, I also think that road needs to give 3 seconds of stabilityimmediately at least to the caster, then 3 seconds from each pulse, that should also be every 3 seconds.
This way you still give the same amount of stability duration and stacks.

it’s only 1 stack, however, so not a big deal anyway. Jalis has a long way to go to compete with the other legends. At the moment is less interesting then Ventari.

Kidel.2057:

I think that Jalis elite is so expensive because you can stack that plus protection and get like 80% damage reduction.

Who cares? Plenty of classes have 3-8 second skills that offer complete invulnerability, or take 0 damage, or are immune to conditions, and most of them aren’t even elites. It doesn’t even do anything to conditions.

It’s garbage.

Kidel.2057:

I think that Jalis elite is so expensive because you can stack that plus protection and get like 80% damage reduction.

This being said, I also think that road needs to give 3 seconds of stabilityimmediately at least to the caster, then 3 seconds from each pulse, that should also be every 3 seconds.
This way you still give the same amount of stability duration and stacks.

it’s only 1 stack, however, so not a big deal anyway. Jalis has a long way to go to compete with the other legends. At the moment is less interesting then Ventari.

In PvE I would say it’s not a big deal, but in WvW, every stack you can get is useful. 1 stack of Stability won’t help you at all. It will be instantly stripped upon engaging a fight with another Zerg and then you’re stuck inside their bomb with maybe 1 stun break instead of being able to push with your own team who all have stability to do so.

Kodiak.3281:

What you’re suggesting already exists in the game, and it doesn’t work at all in WvW. Currently Necromancers get a skill called “Well of Power” which when placed pulses stability and breaks stun (and also converts conditions). However when you use it to break stun, you are often CC’d right after and the stability isn’t long enough to keep you going through multiple CCs. I can make a video showing this as I had a similar idea for this when playing my Necro and I dubbed it the “Ghetto Road” because 1 second of stability is functionally useless in WvW but once in 10 times it’d work the way I needed it to.

Again, Well of Power does not pulse stability. It’s one second to the caster.

That’s 1 stack, for 1 second total, for one person.

There is nothing in the game currently comparable to Inspiring Reinforcements.

Jasmine Salina.3609:

Kidel.2057:

I think that Jalis elite is so expensive because you can stack that plus protection and get like 80% damage reduction.

This being said, I also think that road needs to give 3 seconds of stabilityimmediately at least to the caster, then 3 seconds from each pulse, that should also be every 3 seconds.
This way you still give the same amount of stability duration and stacks.

it’s only 1 stack, however, so not a big deal anyway. Jalis has a long way to go to compete with the other legends. At the moment is less interesting then Ventari.

In PvE I would say it’s not a big deal, but in WvW, every stack you can get is useful. 1 stack of Stability won’t help you at all. It will be instantly stripped upon engaging a fight with another Zerg and then you’re stuck inside their bomb with maybe 1 stun break instead of being able to push with your own team who all have stability to do so.

of course. By “it’s not a big deal” I meant thet it’s not OP to make the skill as I suggested.

Recursivision.2367:

Again, Well of Power does not pulse stability. It’s one second to the caster.

That’s 1 stack, for 1 second total, for one person.

There is nothing in the game currently comparable to Inspiring Reinforcements.

And, again, when you run through Inspiring Reinforcements you only get 1 stack of Stability making it the same net effect. Go out into WvW in a 30 man blob and show us all how 1 stack of Stability works for you or how standing in place in a well bomb inside IR works out for you as well. I’d love to see it!

Also everything else that is comparable to IR is flat out better. Stand your Ground, Virtue of Courage+Indominable Courage, and hell even Toss Elixir B are all functionally superior instantly granting multiple stacks AOE on the move.

IR worked when it was a 6s duration because you could stack up (such as during an empower) build a few stacks then move out and still keep a few stacks as they wore off. However with a 1s duration it’s functionally worthless in real WvW game play.

Theres one catch tho. With herald bulwalk trait you will get extra 6sec stability stack for each pulsed one from road. But for zergs either way..i think revenant will be better as a backline support (glint) glass with hammer.

Well as I mentioned a “good” source of stability in WvW pretty much follows the pattern:

Medium stacks of stability (3-5), Medium duration (3-5s), Medium cool down (20-30s).

The reason for this, as mentioned in the original post, is because when you are in WvW there is a lot of follow up CC after the initial stun. So I can eat that Static Field instantly cast on my head and now I’m stunned and immune to Static Field for a few seconds but skills like Unsteady Earth, Line of Warding, Spectral Wall as ground targeted abilities can remove an unlimited amount of stacks let alone AOE targeted abilities as well (Hammer Warriors, our own Hammer 5 ability, etc). The point is when you scale up the number of players, the amount of CC that occurs is quite a bit and a single stun break or single stack of Stability is insufficient. The only thing that works is giving you multiple stacks to power through multiple CC.

So while Bulwark will help out with this, it’s ultimately not a solution as 2 stacks per second for 5 seconds still requires that you stay in the field for the full 5 seconds to get the benefit of it which, again, just isn’t feasible in WvW. Also by rewarding multiple stacks in fewer pulses you minimize the net benefit from Bulwark as well as to not be overpowered.

As for Glint back line…personally I don’t see it working out. The net benefit just isn’t there. Sure giving Fury and Might seems like a no brainer but when you start calculating energy costs that leaves you with 1 energy while you maintain it or -1 if you increase boon duration as well let alone having to run your heal. With all the actives being 600 range or 360 aoe around you those will be completely useless back line. As you begin to calculate the DPS per energy consider that with Ruin you could do 25k damage total as an AOE across multiple targets for 5 energy every 2s. You could look at that as a 2.5 energy a second upkeep in terms of damage. So by reducing your energy to 1 per second you’re halving that damage and you’ll have to calculate if the might or fury you’re giving to the group is worth a 25k DPS loss (I really doubt it will be). I understand those are “from the hip” numbers but I’m sure someone will work it out to show that it’s better to not waste energy like that and instead just do damage with your energy instead.