Guild Wars 2

Seems that the general consensus is that zerk armor is the only way to go with a power build, i.e S/A or S/Sh.
Wouldn’t something like valk work fine as well? mostly ask because in HoT the mobs there are stinkers and hit a lot harder and smarter than any other maps, and standing toe to toe dishing it out doesn’t seem to cut it.
Or does Hardening Persistence give that much back that a full zerk build is very viable.
This is purely PVE and yea, I read Obal’s guide but just wanted to see if anyone else out there in Rev land have come up with anything else that works, other than Condi.

I use Viper/Sinister and Commander/valk+ber. Full berserker is bad idea.

You have crazy survivablity utilities and skills through the likes of sw#3, shield 5, staff 3, herald heal, hammer #4 for projectiles hammer 3 for phasing out in a pinch, get out of jail free stunbreakers on legend swaps or shiro utilities etc that it leads to Berserker’s being very desirable.

Not to mention you have an insanely safe and well rounded ranged weapon to play with if you can’t play in melee well.

Berserker is still the most effective build type by far yes. Until mace AND torment stop sucking (and we get a condition range) it will remain the hands down most effective choice for PvE

Torment is cool idea, but needs pimping to bring it up to speed. I was thinking that any launch/pull would proc Torment dmg based on the distance – wouldn’t it be nice?
Eg. Mallyx R stack some → Glint → R R.

I didn’t do the math, but how strong Torment is (compared to other condis), if we assume the target will be moving for whole duration?

2 for and 1 against…and some very good points verenhimo and namica! thanks heaps, gives me something to think about and try.

“I didn’t do the math, but how strong Torment is (compared to other condis), if we assume the target will be moving for whole duration?”
that’s a great point and the mobs are always moving in HoT so perhaps Condi needs/deserves another look in?

Destabilizator.2789:

Torment is cool idea, but needs pimping to bring it up to speed. I was thinking that any launch/pull would proc Torment dmg based on the distance – wouldn’t it be nice?
Eg. Mallyx R stack some -> Glint -> R R.

I didn’t do the math, but how strong Torment is (compared to other condis), if we assume the target will be moving for whole duration?

Torment is absolute garbage since legendary/elite/boss mobs dont move that much.

A abit better in PvP, but still not that great.

Torment is a good idea on paper, an atrocious idea in action.

Namica.2951:

Destabilizator.2789:

Torment is cool idea, but needs pimping to bring it up to speed. I was thinking that any launch/pull would proc Torment dmg based on the distance – wouldn’t it be nice?
Eg. Mallyx R stack some -> Glint -> R R.

I didn’t do the math, but how strong Torment is (compared to other condis), if we assume the target will be moving for whole duration?

Torment is absolute garbage since legendary/elite/boss mobs dont move that much.

A abit better in PvP, but still not that great.

Torment is a good idea on paper, an atrocious idea in action.

Yah, as I said – it needs a bit of pimping. Maybe your typical trick from other MMOs – consume stacks of it and deal full dmg now?

Evilek.5690:

I use Viper/Sinister and Commander/valk+ber. Full berserker is bad idea.

What? You’re on the revenant boards, please give advice accordingly.

As is zerker is one of the best sets for rev and especially herald. You get (if properly traited) around 89-90% crit without banner buffs (warrior) and have enough evasion/immunity skills to boot to survive.

Assassin’s is overkill in the crit chance department.

Anything more tanky is currently not needed. Raids might change this though.

Destabilizator.2789:

Namica.2951:

Destabilizator.2789:

Torment is cool idea, but needs pimping to bring it up to speed. I was thinking that any launch/pull would proc Torment dmg based on the distance – wouldn’t it be nice?
Eg. Mallyx R stack some -> Glint -> R R.

I didn’t do the math, but how strong Torment is (compared to other condis), if we assume the target will be moving for whole duration?

Torment is absolute garbage since legendary/elite/boss mobs dont move that much.

A abit better in PvP, but still not that great.

Torment is a good idea on paper, an atrocious idea in action.

Yah, as I said – it needs a bit of pimping. Maybe your typical trick from other MMOs – consume stacks of it and deal full dmg now?

It kinda needs a complete rework. Buff it to be useful in PvE and it becomes over powered in PvP where people tend to move.

Destabilizator.2789:

I didn’t do the math, but how strong Torment is (compared to other condis), if we assume the target will be moving for whole duration?

CD = Condition Damage

Torment (0.045 * CD) + 15.9
0 CD is 16 | 32
700 CD is 47 | 94
1200 CD is 70 | 140
1320 CD is 75 | 150

Burning (0.155 * CD) + 131.5
0 CD is 131.5
700 CD is 240
1200 CD is 317.5
1320 CD is 336

Confusion (0.035 * CD) + 10 | (0.0625 * CD) + 49,5
0 CD is 10 | 49
700 CD is 34 | 93
1200 CD is 52 | 124
1320 CD is 56 | 132

Bleeding (0.06 * CD) + 22
0 CD is 22
700 CD is 64
1200 CD is 94
1320 CD is 101

Marauders stat set looks interesting to me. It provides a nice boost to hp without gimping on the dps stats too much.

fellyn.5083:

Marauders stat set looks interesting to me. It provides a nice boost to hp without gimping on the dps stats too much.

yep, I think I’m leaning towards Marauder over Berserker set. I didnt even know it’s available until another Rev player pointed out in another thread. Extra HP without gimping the damage stats is a plus for me.

Solid advice from Verenhimo and Namica above. To me it’s a balancing act. If you want to go with full/mostly berserker (I actually use berserk+Valkyrie trinkets and have more defensive stats on my shield…currently Wanderer iirc) you can absolutely do that, especially if you make a defensive pick somewhere else (like using shield). In addition to the shield, I have Jalis as my second legendary. I also don’t use a max dps rotation (see Obal’s thread) and remain in Glint much of the time.

If you play Shiro/Glint, and want to swap legends constantly, you may be perfectly fine or find you want to swap in a piece or two of tankier gear. You really have to try it and see how it works for you.

rchu.8945:

fellyn.5083:

Marauders stat set looks interesting to me. It provides a nice boost to hp without gimping on the dps stats too much.

yep, I think I’m leaning towards Marauder over Berserker set. I didnt even know it’s available until another Rev player pointed out in another thread. Extra HP without gimping the damage stats is a plus for me.

I was under impression that vitality without toughness is kinda useless.

I went with the odd choice of Knight’s gear and were surprised by the combination of damage output and survivability. I’m not the fastest killing machine out there in the jungle but then again my aim wasn’t to go on a killing spree in the first place.

What surprised me is just how much damage I’m doing. I’m not used to tank builds being able to produce this much damage output.

I think I’ll try to combine the knight’s armour set with a few berserker items, especially in the accessory slots, as well as probably switching out the weapon with a berserker one. Since knight’s armour provide precision and the build I’m using stack vulnerability on my target, I think that I can turn my potwork tank from a defensive to an offensive build.

Destabilizator.2789:

rchu.8945:

fellyn.5083:

Marauders stat set looks interesting to me. It provides a nice boost to hp without gimping on the dps stats too much.

yep, I think I’m leaning towards Marauder over Berserker set. I didnt even know it’s available until another Rev player pointed out in another thread. Extra HP without gimping the damage stats is a plus for me.

I was under impression that vitality without toughness is kinda useless.

Vitality counters condition damage which is not mitigated by toughness. In the most played glint/shiro specs there is little condition removal but usually plenty of healing, especially if you’re using a shield, which also provides protection.

So having more hp is actually quite useful.

The thing i that playing with toughness and vitality or not does not really matter. The mobs hit harder, yes, but it all still relies on dodges and utilities. I was traveling with my Rabid engineer and passed by a saurian champ who did a tail sweep and was insta downed. All that toughness? It did nothing.

We can gear for 10% of the game where a one shot will turn into a almost one shot, and then play 90% of the time at a slower speed, or we can make 90% of the time go faster and dodge/utilities the 10% needed.

Kanto.1659:

The thing i that playing with toughness and vitality or not does not really matter. The mobs hit harder, yes, but it all still relies on dodges and utilities. I was traveling with my Rabid engineer and passed by a saurian champ who did a tail sweep and was insta downed. All that toughness? It did nothing.

We can gear for 10% of the game where a one shot will turn into a almost one shot, and then play 90% of the time at a slower speed, or we can make 90% of the time go faster and dodge/utilities the 10% needed.

Thats always been a common complaint. The damage levels are so high in GW2 that when gearing for def, you have to do it full on to see any difference, and even then its rarely much of one. You’re better off going full offense to end a fight sooner.

This is especially true when you factor in that skills and buffs have a far larger impact on defense than stats ever will. Having that protection buff up, using that dodge skill, or using that shield block is vastly superior to having full vit and toughness.

This doesnt apply to PvP mind you. Just PvE where foes often have one hit kill moves or ways to bypass defense.

tldr; Anet did a crappy job with stats and the game is geared towards everyone gearing for straight offense: usually power, since power will almost always end a fight sooner and offense is meant to be its own defense.

Kanto.1659:

The thing i that playing with toughness and vitality or not does not really matter. The mobs hit harder, yes, but it all still relies on dodges and utilities. I was traveling with my Rabid engineer and passed by a saurian champ who did a tail sweep and was insta downed. All that toughness? It did nothing.

We can gear for 10% of the game where a one shot will turn into a almost one shot, and then play 90% of the time at a slower speed, or we can make 90% of the time go faster and dodge/utilities the 10% needed.

Quoted for truth.

I’m running full berserker and doing just fine in open world. The revenant has almost as many evades and invulerability skills as mesmers or thiefs do. If you can’t melee with a rev, no class will do it for you.

Funny side note, running higher toughness and vitality generally leads to enemys being more interested in you. So while you are trying to survive longer, you are getting more attention as well. Fun times for all of those full zerker or sinister players around you.

I run full sinister and melt through mobs just fine… only time I really die is when I get kitteny and Leeroy in with Anguish and axe #4/mace #3.

Also, considering the amount of torment you can maintain as compared to burning, it does more… but only because you have double the stacks, at least. Otherwise, yeah, it does very little per stack. We just need to hope Roy repairs (redoes) the Corruption line and gives us the trait that increases torment damage to make it fully viable in PvE (though I use it regardless since my goal was to have a demon).

Rev has so many active defenses that my full zerker rev is more survivable than my half valk guard.

UA: evades even over giant aoe, and continues doing damage.
Shield 4: small heal, spot protection
Shield 5: Block and heal
Hammer 3: Evade
Hammer 4: Projectile absorb + life steal or blind
Hammer 5: AOE Knockdown
(Not even going to go into staff….)

Shiro stun break: evade and de-snare
Shiro Elite: Oh kitten stun

Glint elite: Protection + knockdown
Glint heal: permas regen + potential for huge absorb and instant max health (i.e. pop and stand in the red stuff.)
Glint Facet of Darkness: stun break + blind

This isn’t even accounting for your traits or dodges. Plus my rev has 5k more hp than my all valk armor guardian. For personal survivability those evades are much better than aegis. I actually got into it in map chat yesterday with somebody who thought that a hammer DH was better than rev because they had perma prot… never mind you know that it does less dps, or that the light field starts over-writing everything…

Rev is one of the best, and easiest, classes to go full zerk on – even in HoT maps.

My 2 cents.

Garimeth.8725:

Rev has so many active defenses that my full zerker rev is more survivable than my half valk guard.

Rev is one of the best, and easiest, classes to go full zerk on – even in HoT maps.

My 2 cents.

Agreed, but keep in mind one reason your first statement is true is that Guardian base health is ludicrously low. I’ve never understood why that is. All the active defenses are great, but now we have Revenant with the big health pool and lots of active defenses.

Misguided.5139:

Agreed, but keep in mind one reason your first statement is true is that Guardian base health is ludicrously low. I’ve never understood why that is.

Because they have a very easy time refilling that health pool.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Misguided.5139:

Agreed, but keep in mind one reason your first statement is true is that Guardian base health is ludicrously low. I’ve never understood why that is.

Because they have a very easy time refilling that health pool.

True, but it doesn’t matter how easy it is to refill it when most attacks your trying to dodge insta down you anyway. Damage avoidance is always better than mitigation or healing. Aegis is good, evades are better imo.

Garimeth.8725:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Misguided.5139:

Agreed, but keep in mind one reason your first statement is true is that Guardian base health is ludicrously low. I’ve never understood why that is.

Because they have a very easy time refilling that health pool.

True, but it doesn’t matter how easy it is to refill it when most attacks your trying to dodge insta down you anyway. Damage avoidance is always better than mitigation or healing. Aegis is good, evades are better imo.

Which Guardians also have in spades. Avoidance is better than healing, but healing is still very necessary.

If you still grind dungeons (for some reason), then zerker gear is best since it allows for maximum faceroll. -_-

In the HoT Maguuma, you should have at least some defensive stats on your gear, even if it’s just on your accessories. There are many things in the jungle that will instantly kill you if you use full zerker (pocket raptors, smokescale, any champion). Raids are coming in the near future and will punish players for running full damaging gear stats.

Now, there is nothing wrong with using full berserker gears – it’s still an option. The only thing that it’s good at is for killing things as fast as possible.

Playing supportive roles are useful for every and a lot of fun for many of the tough bosses found in the jungle. Herald, being a highly supportive class, works great when played in such a way.

I use Marauder for power set but that’s almost = Zerker i suppose.

As for condi, i’m still hoping that the elite toggle will make torment tick for full damage always. Would be a nice solution to me, making it actually useful and fun to time. i do play it from time to time and I rather enjoy the fields it comes with.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Garimeth.8725:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Misguided.5139:

Agreed, but keep in mind one reason your first statement is true is that Guardian base health is ludicrously low. I’ve never understood why that is.

Because they have a very easy time refilling that health pool.

True, but it doesn’t matter how easy it is to refill it when most attacks your trying to dodge insta down you anyway. Damage avoidance is always better than mitigation or healing. Aegis is good, evades are better imo.

Which Guardians also have in spades. Avoidance is better than healing, but healing is still very necessary.

As a former Guardian main, I’ve learned that evades are much, much more effective at damage avoidance than aegis. The only inherent advantage that aegis has is that it can be applied pre-emptively. Other than that, it fails against any multi-hit or unblockable attack, whereas evasion frames can avoid almost any source of damage for the duration of the evasion.

Black Box.9312:

As a former Guardian main, I’ve learned that evades are much, much more effective at damage avoidance than aegis. The only inherent advantage that aegis has is that it can be applied pre-emptively. Other than that, it fails against any multi-hit or unblockable attack, whereas evasion frames can avoid almost any source of damage for the duration of the evasion.

I used to main guard as well, and I feel like my rev has way more survivability, for all the reasons outline above. Guard can help other party members survive more, but in a meta where everybody is expected to take care of themselves (i.e. dodges/evade/etc.) I’d rather be the rev. Still play my guardian as I like DH, but i play it like a ranger, and its not my main.

yes, zerker is the only gear choice.

The only thing that has a 50/50 to kill my zerker Rev is a veteran hylek, the type who is just immune to range (and a hearty puppy to you too, whatever dev who designed this mob).

The mob stealths, jumps back, hits hard, and I’m running around with my little melee weapon trying to get to him.

All the rest is just meh, what Rev dies to pocket raptors anyway? They even attack all at the same time. Champs? Sure, if we wait for their big hitters, but as I posted above full Rabid did not save my engineer when one did when I was running past.

I’m hardly saying ‘only use zerker!!’, but lets keep the talk informed. Dodging at the right moment is superior to stats.

All very good discussion folks, thanks heaps!! While I wanted to steer away from the ‘norm" and full zerk many of you have made a lot of valid points as to why it works. And yea, I have noticed that with any extra toughness mobs seem to want my babies way more! I have a zerk set so I reckon its time to put it to the test.
This isn’t a face roll type of game and you are given dodges and such for a reason so high time I used them more.
And Rev does have some pretty awesome avoids and such so time to die faster mobs!
Thanks heaps to all who have responded!!

CadeRG.4508:

If you still grind dungeons (for some reason), then zerker gear is best since it allows for maximum faceroll. -_-

In the HoT Maguuma, you should have at least some defensive stats on your gear, even if it’s just on your accessories. There are many things in the jungle that will instantly kill you if you use full zerker (pocket raptors, smokescale, any champion). Raids are coming in the near future and will punish players for running full damaging gear stats.

Now, there is nothing wrong with using full berserker gears – it’s still an option. The only thing that it’s good at is for killing things as fast as possible.

Playing supportive roles are useful for every and a lot of fun for many of the tough bosses found in the jungle. Herald, being a highly supportive class, works great when played in such a way.

Just like players were punished for being full zerk in fractals amiright

zerk is probably ideal, but i like marauder armor w/ zerk weaps and trinkets….the extra HP helps with condi mitigation….and rev isn’t short on ferocity buffs

Relshdan.6854:

zerk is probably ideal, but i like marauder armor w/ zerk weaps and trinkets….the extra HP helps with condi mitigation….and rev isn’t short on ferocity buffs

Untill it hits 100% crit rate, ferocity is never wasted. If anything ferocity is even more important for rev than others due to roiling mists

Namica.2951:

Relshdan.6854:

zerk is probably ideal, but i like marauder armor w/ zerk weaps and trinkets….the extra HP helps with condi mitigation….and rev isn’t short on ferocity buffs

Untill it hits 100% crit rate, ferocity is never wasted. If anything ferocity is even more important for rev than others due to roiling mists

Think you meant to say precision, not ferocity. Ferocity is only a waste on LOW crit chance builds, and is always an excellent investment on a rolling mists rev.

Absolutely not. I’ve been rigorously testing Celestial, and so far it’s basically God Mode.

I use assassin/zerker with scholars runes, I hit 15-27k if my target’s health drops below 50%.