Guild Wars 2

I’d like to know why this skill is about 8 times more powerful than the Thief elite Basilisk Venom, which is very obviously under-tuned/poorly designed.

I get the synergy with Backstab, I do, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to leave it in its current state with options like this available.

I mean, do you guys even have protocols and conventions in place when it comes to balancing skills, or is it just all spontaneous and feel-it-out?

Because thief has stealth.

EDIT

With the way Shiro looks, Revenant is actually really balanced:

-Lots of chase and disengage, to leave bad fights and chase port spamming players, instead of being a free kill for zergs like necro is.
-Just enough blocks including projectile blocks to respond to changing fights without being left helpless like necro is to stealth and range.
-Not too weak to condi but not invunerable to it.
Not too many execution attacks like warrior.

Roy has really done something interesting with this class, once the damage numbers and condi stacks has been figured out, id say this class should be a model for a few of the others.

Stealth is a really broken mechanic, the way it can be exploited is not right. The circle of nerfs and over buffs will continue unless they find a way to limit it and find a combination of other defenses for thief and mesmer

Ragion.2831:

Because thief has stealth.

As I said, that’s not a good enough reason.

So jelly wow. Maybe bc you can do basilisk from stealth on an autopilot called stealth? Yes that f1 key. You can see when revenant is casting jade, but you cant see thief at all. Not to mention that you have to build up energy for it.

skowcia.8257:

So jelly wow. Maybe bc you can do basilisk from stealth on an autopilot called stealth? Yes that f1 key. You can see when revenant is casting jade, but you cant see thief at all. Not to mention that you have to build up energy for it.

If you’re going to comment on thief gameplay, at least know enough about the class to know that Thief F is not Stealth.

I prefer to compare it to the Reaper’s elite shout “Chilled to the bone!” Functionally they do the same thing, though slightly different.

Chilled to the bone! – stun 2 seconds, chill for 12 seconds, resistance 2 seconds
Jade Wind – stun 3 seconds

I’m ok with Chilled to the bone! having less duration because of the chill and resistance, the only part that really gets me is that Jade Wind has a 0.5 second cast time (confirmed in another thread) and yet Chilled to the bone! has a 2 second cast time.

2 second cast for a 2 second stun (that will likely be interupted) is just too much, especially when a non-elite legend’s elite skill is essentially the same thing. Really hope they look at this again and adjust accordingly.

Einlanzer.1627:

Ragion.2831:

Because thief has stealth.

As I said, that’s not a good enough reason.

Because thief has initiative+stealth and can basically wreack almost any zerker or mob with the highest burst in the game.
Plus the highest mobility and blinks. Plus you don’t waste initiative to use basilisk venom, and it can’t be avoided except with block/evade, while Jade Winds is easy to spot and you just need to move away (or dodge even more easily).

Are you going to be kitten also for Reaper’s elite? Because it’s basically the same as Jade Wind, except it can be traited to do a lot of damage. And it’s also faster if I’m not mistaken. Plus gives chill and resistance.
Jade Wind is actually pretty weak.

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

Einlanzer.1627:

I’d like to know why this skill is about 8 times more powerful than the Thief elite Basilisk Venom, which is very obviously under-tuned/poorly designed.

I get the synergy with Backstab, I do, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to leave it in its current state with options like this available.

I mean, do you guys even have protocols and conventions in place when it comes to balancing skills, or is it just all spontaneous and feel-it-out?

Basilisk Venom is harder to evade, thieves can use that skill while stealthed. Jade Wind looks easy to dodge and drains 50 energy. Do not compare them both..
Besides, we won’t know which is stronger without playing Revenant first.

I wish there was a downvote function for this kind of thread.

Kidel.2057:

Einlanzer.1627:

Ragion.2831:

Because thief has stealth.

As I said, that’s not a good enough reason.

Because thief has initiative+stealth and can basically wreack almost any zerker or mob with the highest burst in the game.
Plus the highest mobility and blinks. Plus you don’t waste initiative to use basilisk venom, and it can’t be avoided except with block/evade, while Jade Winds is easy to spot and you just need to move away (or dodge even more easily).

Are you going to be kitten also for Reaper’s elite? Because it’s basically the same as Jade Wind, except it can be traited to do a lot of damage. And it’s also faster if I’m not mistaken. Plus gives chill and resistance.
Jade Wind is actually pretty weak.

Thieves don’t actually have the best offense atm, and they have among the worst attrition. That’s the reason they have stealth.

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.
it feels like you didn’t even think before posting, why would you think a stun that cause 50% of your initiative will be more useful(8x) then basilik in pve..we can never know.

>Jade Winds
>Extremely useful
Pick one.

It only uses 50 energy, not 100 :o

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.

A 3 second stun to everything around you in a flash that also deals damage? Yeah, I think that’s more useful than a 1 second stun to one target, regardless of Stealth.

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

Let’s be fair, it costs half your energy if you are at 100%. In addition you get 50% energy automatically if you either A) switch legends, or B,) go out of combat. Both can be very useful to use. If one really wanted to spam this skill, it could be cast at least once every 10 seconds (use it, switch legends and use their abilities for 10 seconds, then switch back and use it again) while staying in combat. And since switching legends don’t switch your weapons, but does give you the 50% energy, you can then use all the sword/sword DPS skills you want for those 10 seconds it takes to get Jade Wind back up.

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.

A 3 second stun to everything around you in a flash that also deals damage? Yeah, I think that’s more useful than a 1 second stun to one target, regardless of Stealth.

First of all, why would you want to stun trash mobs in exchange of DPS lose?
do you even pve? like do you? like why..what? do you even play the game?

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.

A 3 second stun to everything around you in a flash that also deals damage? Yeah, I think that’s more useful than a 1 second stun to one target, regardless of Stealth.

First of all, why would you want to stun trash mobs in exchange of DPS lose?
do you even pve? like do you? like why..what? do you even play the game?

You can’t even pose articulate questions, much less make any coherent points.

Einlanzer.1627:

Thieves don’t actually have the best offense atm, and they have among the worst attrition. That’s the reason they have stealth.

Did I say dps? Nope, I said burst. I know that Eles are on top atm.

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.

A 3 second stun to everything around you in a flash that also deals damage? Yeah, I think that’s more useful than a 1 second stun to one target, regardless of Stealth.

First of all, why would you want to stun trash mobs in exchange of DPS lose?
do you even pve? like do you? like why..what? do you even play the game?

You can’t even pose articulate questions, much less make any coherent points.

No, you are the one who doesn’t make any sense.
Please explain how AoE stun that cost half of your initiative is strong in PvE in any way.
Oh yea, btw there are AoE stun on warrior as well, and guardian has aoe knock back, omg, it’s so useful in PvE, it’s insane, not.
and why you aren’t comparing your venom with those? exactly.
you are just comparing venom with jade wind for no valid reason what so ever

one class gets aoe stun doesnt mean another class should get aoe stun, /thread.

It’s silly to compare skills across professions because they all work differently. They’re balanced for how the profession is designed.

If people think baslisk venom is bad then they don’t understand coordinated burst or good openings in PvP.

Reaper is also getting an aoe shout stun as well, similar effects but made differently cause professions are made a certain way.

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.

A 3 second stun to everything around you in a flash that also deals damage? Yeah, I think that’s more useful than a 1 second stun to one target, regardless of Stealth.

First of all, why would you want to stun trash mobs in exchange of DPS lose?
do you even pve? like do you? like why..what? do you even play the game?

You can’t even pose articulate questions, much less make any coherent points.

No, you are the one who doesn’t make any sense.
Please explain how AoE stun that cost half of your initiative is strong in PvE in any way.
Oh yea, btw there are AoE stun on warrior as well, and guardian has aoe knock back, omg, it’s so useful in PvE, it’s insane, not.
and why you aren’t comparing your venom with those? exactly.
you are just comparing venom with jade wind for no valid reason what so ever

Except the fact that Basilisk Venom is terrible and Jade Winds isn’t.

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.

A 3 second stun to everything around you in a flash that also deals damage? Yeah, I think that’s more useful than a 1 second stun to one target, regardless of Stealth.

First of all, why would you want to stun trash mobs in exchange of DPS lose?
do you even pve? like do you? like why..what? do you even play the game?

You can’t even pose articulate questions, much less make any coherent points.

No, you are the one who doesn’t make any sense.
Please explain how AoE stun that cost half of your initiative is strong in PvE in any way.
Oh yea, btw there are AoE stun on warrior as well, and guardian has aoe knock back, omg, it’s so useful in PvE, it’s insane, not.
and why you aren’t comparing your venom with those? exactly.
you are just comparing venom with jade wind for no valid reason what so ever

Except the fact that Basilisk Venom is terrible and Jade Winds isn’t.

except the fact that basilisk venom is op and jade wind is useless.

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.

A 3 second stun to everything around you in a flash that also deals damage? Yeah, I think that’s more useful than a 1 second stun to one target, regardless of Stealth.

First of all, why would you want to stun trash mobs in exchange of DPS lose?
do you even pve? like do you? like why..what? do you even play the game?

You can’t even pose articulate questions, much less make any coherent points.

No, you are the one who doesn’t make any sense.
Please explain how AoE stun that cost half of your initiative is strong in PvE in any way.
Oh yea, btw there are AoE stun on warrior as well, and guardian has aoe knock back, omg, it’s so useful in PvE, it’s insane, not.
and why you aren’t comparing your venom with those? exactly.
you are just comparing venom with jade wind for no valid reason what so ever

Except the fact that Basilisk Venom is terrible and Jade Winds isn’t.

except the fact that basilisk venom is op and jade wind is useless.

Yeah that 1 second of stun behind a second long cast time and 40 second cooldown is so OP.

Einlanzer.1627:

Yeah that 1 second of stun behind a second long cast time and 40 second cooldown is so OP.

Isn’t Basilisk Venom 2 stacks? Plus 1s of cast is to apply the venom to the weapon (like a Mantra skill). You can stun instantly 2 times for 30 seconds after that.

Am I wrong?

You’re comparing an instant unavoidable skill to an easy to avoid one with a longer cast time, just because of the aoe effect.
Also I don’t think people will give up 5 seconds of Impossible Odds too often for that.

If we had stealth, on the other hand, it would be OP.

Kidel.2057:

Einlanzer.1627:

Yeah that 1 second of stun behind a second long cast time and 40 second cooldown is so OP.

Isn’t Basilisk Venom 2 stacks? Plus 1s of cast is to apply the venom to the weapon (like a Mantra skill). You can stun instantly 2 times for 30 seconds after that.

Am I wrong?

You’re comparing an instant unavoidable skill to an easy to avoid one, just because of the aoe effect.

Also I don’t think people will give up 5 seconds of Impossible Odds too often for that.

It’s supposed to be, but it isn’t. Petrify doesn’t stack in either intensity or duration so the 2nd application is useless in most cases. It’s effectively a 1 second petrify. Also, it isn’t unavoidable – that’s a common misconception; it can be blocked by any sort of invul, evade, etc. It is mechanically identical to Jade Winds. They are both Petrify, but Petrify at this point is nothing more than a Stun.

The only benefit whatsoever to BV is that you precast it like a Mantra. It’s still horrendously weak for an elite and Jade Winds is altogether superior.

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.

A 3 second stun to everything around you in a flash that also deals damage? Yeah, I think that’s more useful than a 1 second stun to one target, regardless of Stealth.

First of all, why would you want to stun trash mobs in exchange of DPS lose?
do you even pve? like do you? like why..what? do you even play the game?

You can’t even pose articulate questions, much less make any coherent points.

No, you are the one who doesn’t make any sense.
Please explain how AoE stun that cost half of your initiative is strong in PvE in any way.
Oh yea, btw there are AoE stun on warrior as well, and guardian has aoe knock back, omg, it’s so useful in PvE, it’s insane, not.
and why you aren’t comparing your venom with those? exactly.
you are just comparing venom with jade wind for no valid reason what so ever

Except the fact that Basilisk Venom is terrible and Jade Winds isn’t.

except the fact that basilisk venom is op and jade wind is useless.

Yeah that 1 second of stun behind a second long cast time and 40 second cooldown is so OP.

Yea that 3 second stun behind a huge obvious telegraphed easily dodgeable animation which also cause all your energy from the start is so OP.

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

Einlanzer.1627:

lighter.2708:

You must be extremely high, or simply have no logic at all.

so you prefer a stun that cost all your initiative, has no synergy with your other bursts
and can be easily avoided and is only 600 radius

that’s what you want?

i would take basilisk all day long.

it actually surprises me when reading thief forum how no idea most forum thieves are.
it feels like 90% of the forum thieves are extremely noob and has no idea what they talking about.

i would be happy to reckt you on my thief with basilisk during the next beta, while you brainlessly spam that jade wind and think it will actually do anything

No, I want something that is generally useful instead of only useful in a very specific build in one game mode.

so you think aoe stun that cause all your energy so you won’t be able to use your other high DPS rotation skill = useful in pve?

if anything, this skill can only has more usage in pvp then anywhere else.

A 3 second stun to everything around you in a flash that also deals damage? Yeah, I think that’s more useful than a 1 second stun to one target, regardless of Stealth.

First of all, why would you want to stun trash mobs in exchange of DPS lose?
do you even pve? like do you? like why..what? do you even play the game?

You can’t even pose articulate questions, much less make any coherent points.

No, you are the one who doesn’t make any sense.
Please explain how AoE stun that cost half of your initiative is strong in PvE in any way.
Oh yea, btw there are AoE stun on warrior as well, and guardian has aoe knock back, omg, it’s so useful in PvE, it’s insane, not.
and why you aren’t comparing your venom with those? exactly.
you are just comparing venom with jade wind for no valid reason what so ever

Except the fact that Basilisk Venom is terrible and Jade Winds isn’t.

except the fact that basilisk venom is op and jade wind is useless.

Yeah that 1 second of stun behind a second long cast time and 40 second cooldown is so OP.

Yea that 3 second stun behind a huge obvious telegraphed easily dodgeable animation which also cause all your energy from the start is so OP.

So, what is the point of this thread now? All I’ve seen is a back and forth argument with no substance and now it has come full circle (on a point that was discussed, but missed due to the bickering).

Einlazer, 1s on a Thief is actually worth, compared to 2s on a Revenant, that is way slower.

Warrior has shouts, signets, greatsword and heavy armor, but 10k more HP, does it mean that Guardian is useless or replaced? Nope.
I’m also hearing no complains by Rangers, even if Guardian is getting longbow and traps.

Thief and Revenant are nowhere alike.
It’s like complaining about Reaper because it has a better Basilisk Venom. Actually that shout is WAY better than both BV and JW. Does it make thief BV builds less viable? No.
Necro and Reaper are extremely slow classes and have no stealth, burst or surprise effects.

Thiefs and assassins share similar traits, but are 2 very different things.

You should also wait for thief elite spec however.

I’ll take your Bas. Posion and spammable stealth for Jade Wind….. No, really, deal?

Kidel.2057:

Einlazer, 1s on a Thief is actually worth, compared to 2s on a Revenant, that is way slower.

Warrior has shouts, signets, greatsword and heavy armor, but 10k more HP, does it mean that Guardian is useless or replaced? Nope.
I’m also hearing no complains by Rangers, even if Guardian is getting longbow and traps.

Thief and Revenant are nowhere alike.
It’s like complaining about Reaper because it has a better Basilisk Venom. Actually that shout is WAY better than both BV and JW. Does it make thief BV builds less viable? No.
Necro and Reaper are extremely slow classes and have no stealth, burst or surprise effects.

Thiefs and assassins share similar traits, but are 2 very different things.

You should also wait for thief elite spec however.

JW is 3 seconds and hits 5 targets while dealing damage. It also has no cooldown.

BV is a 1 second stun that hits 1 target. It deals the damage of whatever attack it’s used with, which is its only advantage. But it has a 40 second cooldown and has to be precast to be useful. Most importantly, it is every bit as avoidable as JW is.

CttB has a 2 minute cooldown and only stuns for 2 seconds. I don’t think it’s significantly stronger than JW. Both, however, are significantly stronger than BV.

Einlanzer.1627:

Kidel.2057:

Einlazer, 1s on a Thief is actually worth, compared to 2s on a Revenant, that is way slower.

Warrior has shouts, signets, greatsword and heavy armor, but 10k more HP, does it mean that Guardian is useless or replaced? Nope.
I’m also hearing no complains by Rangers, even if Guardian is getting longbow and traps.

Thief and Revenant are nowhere alike.
It’s like complaining about Reaper because it has a better Basilisk Venom. Actually that shout is WAY better than both BV and JW. Does it make thief BV builds less viable? No.
Necro and Reaper are extremely slow classes and have no stealth, burst or surprise effects.

Thiefs and assassins share similar traits, but are 2 very different things.

You should also wait for thief elite spec however.

JW is 3 seconds and hits 5 targets while dealing damage. It also has no cooldown.

BV is a 1 second stun that hits 1 target. It deals the damage of whatever attack it’s used with, which is its only advantage. But it has a 40 second cooldown and has to be precast to be useful. Most importantly, it is every bit as avoidable as JW is.

CttB has a 2 minute cooldown and only stuns for 2 seconds. I don’t think it’s significantly stronger than JW. Both, however, are significantly stronger than BV.

Why don’t you get that using Jade Wind takes 50 energy meaning you can’t even use your weapon skills… In all honesty, I can’t find myself getting hit with Jade Wind without being immobilized. Don’t compare Thieves and Revenants, Basilisk Venom is not meant to be used against multiple foes, learn how the profession works man, jesus..

The main advantage of BV is that you can’t see it coming. Even without stealth.

Can you imagine a thief with something like stealth + jade wind? Or simply jade wind with no telegraph?

Seriously, thief and revenants are different. You won’t ask for Impossible Odds on thief, right?

Or are you asking for a jade wind nerf? Because revenant is already pretty weak.

You guys do know that when you target a Revenant it shows which legend he channels, right ? You can always be ready for Jade Wind, unlike Basilisk Venom which is a strong skill that gives you a free Back Stab ( potentially dealing 10k+) and can be used while under stealth.

Invictus.1503:

2 second cast for a 2 second stun (that will likely be interupted) is just too much, especially when a non-elite legend’s elite skill is essentially the same thing. Really hope they look at this again and adjust accordingly.

I agree that 2 seconds is too much, but also note that the shout deals a ton of damage, 1,034 with that crappy non-zerk gear they use in PvP.

You know that when you select a Thief, you can see if he has Basilisk Venom applied to his weapon right?

stof.9341:

You know that when you select a Thief, you can see if he has Basilisk Venom applied to his weapon right?

Yes, and that makes you waste your dodge or a block skill because you don’t know when they will use their steal to land the skill. Though you can blind them if you can.

Kaizoku.1298:

You guys do know that when you target a Revenant it shows which legend he channels, right ? You can always be ready for Jade Wind, unlike Basilisk Venom which is a strong skill that gives you a free Back Stab ( potentially dealing 10k+) and can be used while under stealth.

All comes back to stealth now doesnt it? because if your problem with BV is that it exists then i will say that there is stability for a reason. Just blind or pop stab when you see it

Why people are freaking out over Jade winds is really confusing, the skill costs 50 energy with a 3 second stun, energy regen is at 5/second sword 3 costs 15 energy which means if you somehow have 50 energy to spend in an intense fight you will most likely drop to 0 and have to wait 3 seconds (the entire stun duration) to burst with sword 3 or switch to a non burst legend to do damage. On top of all this even if you somehow manage to hit 5 targets and they all dont have stab don’t you think most of them will break out of it? at best maybe one or two will remain stunned long enough for you to take advantage of it.

At the end of the day the skill only works if you plan ahead of time how, when and what to use it with.

BV and JW are fine as they are, if rev had stealth then there would be a problem

Ragion.2831:

All comes back to stealth now doesnt it? because if your problem with BV is that it exists then i will say that there is stability for a reason. Just blind or pop stab when you see it

The fact that thiefs can stealth prevents you from popping blocks and stability to avoid petrification.
Again, a Thief with Jade Wind would be devastating, because you can actually avoid Revenant’s, but not Thief’s (yes, because of stealth).

I agree with everything else you said.

You use Jade Winds on 5 targets, then what? Could be useful in a teamfight, but the telegraph is huge. Needs a thief friend to stealth you.
But nothing op here. It’s still inferior to Reaper’s Elite.

more then 1 second of basilisk venom + shadowstep + initiative? No please, don’t destroy pvp.
Thinks like JW and CttB are good on Revenant/Reaper because they don’t have burst and stealth.
However CttB is clearly op compared to JW, but at least it has 2m cooldown.

Basilisk venom has
1. Two chances to proc on enemies (less chance to be avoided)
2. Is no where near as telegraphed as jade winds
3. Can be proc from a multitude of ranges in a multitude of ways.

Plus JW isn’t used by a profession that can spam a skill 10 times in 2 seconds (exaggerating bu you get what I mean) and has access to stealth for surprise attacks.

A thief with a 2s BV is gamebreaking

What i found funny is that jade wind can be blocked. Legit.

Kidel.2057:

But nothing op here. It’s still inferior to Reaper’s Elite.

…how?

1 second shorter stun, double the cast time, and roughly six times the effective cooldown.

In exchange for an 8 second base Chill and some Stability stacks if you hit someone. The damage is about the same (Reaper reveal appears to have been in Soldier’s gear, Shiro in Assassin’s).

As I already said
1) Has no energy cost, even with a long cd you have all your skills to spam
2) Has stability / resistance (not sure which one)
3) Has a less visible telegraph (not a giant green tornado on the head)
4) Has higher base damage
5) Has a lot of chill, meaning (with traits) more damage (over time?), more cc, and exploding spreading chill. Basically the skill has sinergy with the Reaper, unlike Jade Winds.
6) can be combined with more cc utility skills (like fear), while revenant can’t pick the other skills

Kidel.2057:

3) Has a less visible telegraph (not a giant green tornado on the head)

What? Do you even know the animation of CttB?

Kidel.2057:

As I already said
1) Has no energy cost, even with a long cd you have all your skills to spam
2) Has stability / resistance (not sure which one)
3) Has a less visible telegraph (not a giant green tornado on the head)
4) Has higher base damage
5) Has a lot of chill, meaning (with traits) more damage (over time?), more cc, and exploding spreading chill. Basically the skill has sinergy with the Reaper, unlike Jade Winds.
6) can be combined with more cc utility skills (like fear), while revenant can’t pick the other skills

1: So do Revenants that pop Jade Wind, then swap legends. Your energy is set to 50, then, but even so, a lot can happen with that 3 second stun. What happens when you pop it at, say, 70 energy instead? You have all of your weapon skills available to you and, frankly, you don’t need to use any other utilities if you got off a good Jade Wind.

2: Most recent iteration is 2 stacks of Stability for each foe hit.

3: Perhaps you missed the blog post where the animators were talking about how much work they put into the animation for Chilled to the Bone? It has quite the noticable wind-up on its own, and double the cast time means it is faaar more likely to be blinded, dodged, or interrupted than Jade Wind. Chilled to the Bone is just as telegraphed as Jade Winds, but still takes twice as long to pull off.

4: Not true at all. Reaper reveal appeared to have been done in Soldier amulet. Shiro reveal was done on Assassin’s amulet. That difference in Power stats easily accounts for the difference in damage, making it seem like Jade Winds will hit just as hard as CttB.

5: Reaper in general has a lot of Chill. In practice, the Chill from their elite won’t mean a whole lot, since Necros don’t lack for ways to apply it. Jade Winds doesn’t lack for synergy with Revenant either, given how legend swapping works as well as the low energy costs and cooldowns on weapon skills. Plus, Shiro is the DPS and burst legend. How does a 3 second stun not synergize? Also, Impossible Odds into Jade Winds sets off a very potent stun very quickly.

6: Revenant can swap to hammer and chain Jade Winds to Drop the Hammer for even longer AoE lockdown for allies to wipe the floor with. Or legend swap to Jallis for Forced Engagement (since you have the energy for that) to chain their CC that much longer.

Even in normal play, you can still easily get off three Jade Winds in the time it takes for CttB (the easier skill to avoid) to come off cooldown.

Muchacho.2390:

Kidel.2057:

3) Has a less visible telegraph (not a giant green tornado on the head)

What? Do you even know the animation of CttB?

Yes. And actually CttB telegraph animation is shorter then the actual cast time, while JW lasts for the whole time.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

cut

1) All? Let’s say 3 weaponskills at best. And you need to be in combat already and wothout basically using any skill before. I don’t see that happen very easily, and if you let a Revenant build so much energy then you probably deserve to die.
2) That’s a lot. How can you say JW is better? That alone is huge.
3) Sure, did you miss Roy saying the same about JW, that is actually bigger? Posted a screen earlier.
4) We’ll see. Even if damage is the same, Reaper gets extra damage from chill. Plus more effects (like less damage received and so on)
5) Stacks in duration, it’s always useful. You get more damage and more effects (as the 10% damage reduction I mentioned). I’d trade 1 extra second of stun for all that stuff and chill.
6) AHAHAHAH Drop the hammer. Seriously? You’re comparing Necro’s instant CCs with Drop the Hammer? That has 15 energy cost and a longer cast time then Jade Winds, and even a bigger telegraph. DtH is a useless waste of energy. Revenant has basically no CC except jade winds.
7ish) Again, 3 JW means you don’t do anything else. 1 CttB gives you freedom to attack.

And are we seriously comparing Necro to Revenant? I know that Necro is not the brightest class atm, but it’s still better then Revenant and even has more survivability.

Kidel.2057:

Muchacho.2390:

Kidel.2057:

3) Has a less visible telegraph (not a giant green tornado on the head)

What? Do you even know the animation of CttB?

Yes. And actually CttB telegraph animation is shorter then the actual cast time, while JW lasts for the whole time.

Lol those pictures hardly do the windups any justice. If you truely want to be fair you should show the whole animation, but i guess then you would clearly see that CttB is as visible as jade wind (if not more).